Catch and release - Methodology

[Sundancefisher]

As we are constantly getting new members...it does not hurt to put up a summary of proper catch and release techniques. The more we think about it and pass the tips along to friends and acquaintences the better.

Did I miss anything?

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Many important factors come into effect when looking to successfully release a rainbow trout. These include:

1) Trout need to breath - Rainbow trout, like all other animals, fish and birds, need oxygen to survive. The obvious difference between them is that fish get their oxygen from the water and not from the air. The longer a trout stays out of water the more likely brain damage will occur. If a trout is released but sinks to the bottom, wait a few minutes then try and poke the trout with a net or paddle or rod tip. Often you can get them to try and swim again which is probably their last chance to survive. They sink to the bottom because they were not revived long enough to remove lactic acid from their muscles. Their muscles are frozen and they cannot breath in this state. One rule of thumb is not to remove the trout from the water for more than 30 seconds. Another rule of thumb is to take a deep breath, remove the trout from the water, and when the average person needs to take a breath…so does the trout. Typically anything over 1 minute out of the water is really, really bad for the trout.

2) Trout can freeze - Another rule of thumb is to never bring the trout onto the beach or into a boat or onto the ice. Get the trout back into the water as soon as possible. During ice-over, when air temps are below freezing, rainbow trout should never be removed from water. Exposed to freezing air, their gills freeze almost instantly and are irreparably damaged. Freezing temperatures and ice can also cause frostbite or general tissue damage.

3) Taking a Safe Photo - When taking a photo of your prized catch before releasing, keep the trout in the water at all times with it’s gills fully under water (preferably in a catch and release net) and have the camera and photographer ready to go. A photo of a trout on the shore, gravel, rocks, ice or boat is very damaging to the trout prior to release. Quickly lift the trout up by holding with one hand around the narrow area in front of the tail and cradling the head with your other hand. Cradle the head by holding the trout just slightly behind the two pectoral fins (on the bottom of the trout just behind the gills). Then quickly release the trout back to the water but taking care to make sure it is properly revived before letting go. Be careful not to raise the trout off the ground or bottom of the boat to far as any falls can damage or kill the trout. Never put your fingers in the gill area as significant damage can occur very quickly.

4) Using a Good Net Saves Trout - Always use a net and preferably a catch a release style net. These are often made of rubber coated mesh or other soft and small mesh. Both types of net should be wetted immediately prior to actually capturing the trout. This is important as trout have a slime coating that protects their skin from contracting diseases. Actually touching the trout as little as possible can go a long ways to maintaining a great fishery. When using a net you can keep the trout in the water longer and have better control. You should not allow the trout to contact the bottom of a boat or the ground as impact damage can occur as well as loss of protective slime.

5) Don’t Squeeze Trout - Never put you fingers in the fish’s gills or eyes, squeeze the gills or the trout in general. Your hands can exert a lot of pressure and can easily rupture or damage the internal organs or gills. The gills are super sensitive and consist of fine filaments that filter oxygen out of the water and are essential for the trout’s survival.

6) Never release a bleeding trout - If you have damaged a trout to the point they are bleeding noticeably from the gills or mouth, don’t waste the trout. Consider your trout limit and finish fishing for the day. A trout does not have a lot of blood in them. Serious blood loss is almost always fatal. Always follow the regulations if a trout can not be retained.

7) Bait Kills - Seriously consider not using bait. Studies show that bait fishermen can kill upwards of 40% of the trout they release due to deep hooking in the gills and/or stomach. Also it often takes significantly longer time to remove a hook from a deeply hooked trout, which will deprive the trout of oxygen and then they will suffer brain damage. You may see many people catching and releasing trout that are not using any bait at all. Many of them will help fellow catch and release fishermen…and the added benefit is making a new friend. Fishing buddies are often friends for life!

8) Use Proper Gear - Consider fighting the trout quicker using the appropriate gear. Playing any trout for more than a minute or so can causes their body and muscles to become full of lactic acid. The longer you fight the trout, the more and more lactic acid builds up. This is internal poison for the trout and causes their muscles to freeze and in effect releasing a trout at this point means certain death. The trout may appear to swim away but often they will just eventually sink and die. Make sure the trout has plenty o energy to swim away and let them go in shallow water just in case.

9) Practice Proper Release - Carefully release a trout by holding them for a period of time in a net or in the shallows while gently moving them back and forth to pass water over their gills. The time required is directly related to the water temperature and the length of time you fought the trout for. The warmer the water the longer you need to take to revive the trout. This hold true for the longer you take to fight the trout and also for most larger trout. In addition, newly stocked trout have less endurance after initial stocking and often require more care when releasing. When the trout is fully revived it will struggle to get free. A good rule of thumb is to let the trout go the third time it struggles to get free. Remember the rule to minimize skin contact and removal of protective slime.

10) Never cull trout - This means releasing a trout from a stringer and putting a bigger trout in its place. If fishing for fun, release your trout. If fishing for a meal, stop fishing once you have retained a trout. Should you catch and seriously injure the next trout…you will feel bad.

11) Barbless Saves Trout - Use barbless hooks and remove hooks quickly. Barbless hooks come out much more easily and will save the trout, your clothing, you’re hands from more serious damage should you accidentally hook yourself. If a trout swallows a hook too deep, you can quickly cut the line and release the trout. Chances are that the trout will survive. You should not try to remove a difficult to remove hook first but rather you must make this determination to cut the line first and quickly act on that. Remember not to keep trout out of the water for more than 30 seconds when removing a hook. Keeping the trout in a net under the water and using forceps or pliers to gently remove the hook is preferred.

12) Watch for Stress - Carefully gauge the trout’s stress level and condition prior to release. Many of the above noted concerns can also be related to stress. As such one rule of thumb is to see if the trout’s eyes are moving as the trout moves from side to side. If the eyes remain fixed it could be a sign of stress and more care should be taken before releasing. If the trout does not look well after 5-10 minutes and will probably die, you can exercise your right to retain your limit. If you have caught your limit then injured another, it is a shame as you cannot keep it. You must return it to the water. It is strongly recommended that you do not continue fishing after killing a
trout.

13) Teach by Example - Help others by directing them to this article on the website or giving polite advice. We should all be custodians of this recreational fishery and do our best to watch for improper releasing techniques and for illegal fishing such as keeping over the limit or culling. Also remember there is NO LIMIT on the fun you can have fishing!

[Okotokian]

6) Never release a bleeding trout - If you have damaged a trout to the point they are bleeding noticeably from the gills or mouth, don’t waste the trout. Consider your trout limit and finish fishing for the day.

But if you already have your limit or are fishing in a catch-and-release-only situation, you MUST release it. It's unfortunate but that's the law.

[Unknown303]

But if you already have your limit or are fishing in a catch-and-release-only situation, you MUST release it. It's unfortunate but that's the law.

Yup, I'm not getting fined because of a bleeder. It's sad that it happens sometimes but there isn't much you can do unless you don't want to fish anymore.

[huntsfurfish]

The OPs post could/should apply to all species:)

Thanks for posting Sundancefisher.

[Willowtrail]

But if you already have your limit or are fishing in a catch-and-release-only situation, you MUST release it. It's unfortunate but that's the law.

I agree, but, if you've caught your limit it's time to pack up so you dont run into this situation.

Saying this, I do agree with your comment.:innocent:

[Unknown303]

I agree, but, if you've caught your limit it's time to pack up so you dont run into this situation.

Saying this, I do agree with your comment.:innocent:

Why pack up if you already caught your limit?? By that mentality C&R guys shouldn't even be on the water then, with no intention of keeping any fish why are they on the river?

And I don't want F&W guys catching me with a 20+ inch brown as I leave the Bow.

[tara_13]

Im really glad you posted this... when I was out fishing on the weekend, all there were was trout. People were taking them out of the water, unhooking then they would throw them as far as they could.. I was so angry. I told them to place them back. I usually massage them alittle and then make sure they swim away. They did nothing to hurt us. Right ??

[Unknown303]

Relaxing massage or deep tissue?

[tara_13]

just a little one, to get the little guys going in the water after being hooked..it works.. Heck Im still really new and I wanna hurt em

[Sundancefisher]

just a little one, to get the little guys going in the water after being hooked..it works.. Heck Im still really new and I wanna hurt em

Never massage a fish. If you are serious...don't do it. All you do is damage organs and remove slime. Holding the fish by the tail and gently moving side to side would me the most I would suggest.

[Sundancefisher]

But if you already have your limit or are fishing in a catch-and-release-only situation, you MUST release it. It's unfortunate but that's the law.

Always follow the regulations if a trout can not be retained.

You missed copying this part of the OP. It is true...don't retain a bleeder if you are not allowed to retain a fish under the limit.

Also if someone is looking to retain fish...retain the first bleeder. If bait fishing...mortality is a higher probability for catch and release...stop fishing to prevent killing more than you want for supper. If you are catch and release fishing...and fish are not doing well...warm water...fighting to long...deep hook sets...consider altering your tactics to reduce this incidental and unintentional mortality.

Kind of common sense stuff to me...

I like the dialog. Helps flesh out misconceptions and bad practices. If ANYONE has a question about their catch and release methods...please feel free to PM me...I can add the comment and a response for all to read but keep the questioner identity secret. To prevent...you know. :argue2:

Cheers

Sun

[Tezma]

Thanks, This helped me alot!

[Sbrooks]

Thanks for posting this Sun, gotta spread the knowledge out there...

[BCSteel]

For the most part this is good advice but... if lactic acid was actually such a killer then every trout that swims for it life from a predator would die. It doesn't happen that way.

Also, hook size and placement is of much greater concern than if bait is being used. As a die hard bait angler I can assure you that a 40% mortality is straight up false, by about 30-35%.

[Dust1n]

For the most part this is good advice but... if lactic acid was actually such a killer then every trout that swims for it life from a predator would die. It doesn't happen that way.

Also, hook size and placement is of much greater concern than if bait is being used. As a die hard bait angler I can assure you that a 40% mortality is straight up false, by about 30-35%.

i could also depend if theyre waiting to set the hook using bait or setting it right away like a lure. im sure it ranges alot verrarying between rivers and lakes.

[Sundancefisher]

For the most part this is good advice but... if lactic acid was actually such a killer then every trout that swims for it life from a predator would die. It doesn't happen that way.

Also, hook size and placement is of much greater concern than if bait is being used. As a die hard bait angler I can assure you that a 40% mortality is straight up false, by about 30-35%.

Actually there is a lot of study and literature on hooking mortality for trout. Lake versus river does have it's differences also so that may be confusing for you...in Alberta...you can't bait fish for rainbows in rivers. I can not argue that for you personally it may be a lower mortality...however there may be things you are doing different such as setting the hook immediately upon getting a bite...however the facts on this one is proven...bait fishing has higher mortality therefore I myself as a bait fisher needs to adjust accordingly. For instance when cut plugging for salmon this Fall...I kept a 13 lb chinook when I know I would catch bigger because the salmon took the cut plug deeper and it was bleeding bad.

There are lots of articles...here is a quickie one to read.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCollectionDocuments/DOW/Research/Aquatic/pdf/Postreleasemortality.pdf

As for lactic acid build up...I can guarantee you that if you fight a trout to exhaustion then toss it back into the lake it will swim a little ways away...seemingly fine...nose dive into the bottom and suffocate. I find that the triploid trout are more prone to this from personal observation as is newly stocked trout. I feel trout have some stamina...just like you and I. Each of us are somewhat different...but if you run either of us to exhaustion then throw us in a lake...our muscle are tightened...oxygen spent...we can die easily ourselves.

There is no need to fight a trout to exhaustion if you size your tackle appropriately...it just does not make sense from a resource management perspective.

As for any of the points...any one of them could in their own right kill a trout...however what most likely happens is enough impact from a variety of factors aids in the unnecessary mortality rates.

I hope people can be part of the solution...not continue being part of the problem is all.

http://www.iphc.int/publications/techrep/tech0050.pdf


"Lactic acid is released into the muscle in acute stress and seems to be retained there, rather than released into the blood stream (Wardle 1978)."

"Accumulation of lactic acid, loss of ATP and breakdown of
histidine-containing compounds may have a detrimental effect on fish muscle quality."

"The effects of lactic acid accumulation and fish death were examined
by Wood et al. (1983). Post-exercise death had been attributed to excess lactic acid in the blood. Wood measured blood lactate levels in stressed fish that recovered and those that died as a result of excessive exercise. Blood lactate levels were 50% higher in fish that died, but well within the normal range of tolerance. However, intracellular lactic acid built up to very high levels in white muscle, which he suggested was the probable cause of mortality. This buildup of lactic acid in the muscle of flatfish has consequences on quality of muscle tissue. Wood’s research also implies that measurement of blood parameters in stressed fi sh may not be an acceptable indicator of fish quality."


Hook size and shape is also important and needs to go on the list. It should fall under using proper gear...

[chubbdarter]

Im gonna wait for the movie to come out

[Jayhad]

6) Never release a bleeding trout - If you have damaged a trout to the point they are bleeding noticeably from the gills or mouth, don’t waste the trout. Consider your trout limit and finish fishing for the day. A trout does not have a lot of blood in them. Serious blood loss is almost always fatal. Always follow the regulations if a trout can not be retained.


Can you sight a source please. Trout can bleed like crazy when out of water as their blood uses water to clot, once put in the water the bleeding stops quickly in many cases.

[BCSteel]

Sundance, when I used to catch fish, for the hatchery - for 6 years, by rod and reel, they specifically told me to play the fish longer so it would be easier to handle and put into the live tube. Here's the thing, every single fish that I caught that didn't have some kind of outward laceration lived to spawn anywhere from 3 to 7 weeks later. I can assure you that those fish have under gone far more stress than most c&r anglers will ever put on a fish. IME, the biggest killer of fish under a prolonged time of stress is loss of their protective slime covering. Removal of the slime is much more serious than most people realize and leaves the fish open to a myriad of infections.

Will some fish die from poor handling and or being over played, of course. But on the other side, most fish and certainly from my experiences, trout, are far more rugged and resilient than most people give them credit for.

As long as people aren't being completely moronic with how they treat the fish then their chance of survival is very good.

[Alex K]

Good post Sundance,

Now no respect intended here as I always appreciate education as the best tool available to reduce mortality in released fish. However a few points here are scewed.

One slime removal is not as critical as proper handling. When we started filming I was hammered by arm chair biologists. One complaint was handling fish with a tailing glove and the fear I was removing slime. Well after a sit down with 2 biologists it was noted that removal of slime is not as critical as some would have you believe. Yes it is there protective coating but it also reproduces faster than your body produces siliva. One biologist said to me go ahead and try to spit out all your siliva. Rather odd comparison, but point was you never run out. As a matter of fact I ended up participating a Grayling egg take on quarry pond and I was shocked to see they actually took all the male fish and before they squeezed out their milt they would take a terry towel and dry them off completely. It was explained to me they had to do this so the eggs would not contact water until they were mixed with the eggs. Otherwise the milt was already useless in fertilizing the eggs. Water gets the cycle started on the sperm and they need to buy time so to speak. Then all the fish were released safe and sound.
Now keep in mind they don't want average joe doing this to fish. But point was is it is much less harmful to handle a fish with a glove and never mind worrying about the slime. More important not to drop the fish which you are much more likely to do with a wet bare hand. So careful how much emphasis is put on that. Lets focus more on proper handling techniques.

Second point is the barbless versus barbed, and single versus treble. There is no science that solidly suuports any of this. The first study that was done did show a higher mortality on fish caught with single barbless versus barbed trebles. Now since then another group found that study to be flawed. But by then states like Idaho jumped on this study and implemented a single barbless law. Since then other studies have shown a higher mortality in fish caught with single barbless than trebles. The way the biologist I spoke with that dug up all these studies explained his thoughts to me was that any good scientist knows that you can never base anything on just one study. You need a large number of studies then you can start to establish consistencies.
So really this is just a feel good law and yes it does make it easier for some to release fish easier. But it also creates a problem in another way that I continue to witness. I see alot of anglers take way more time trying to dig out a hook that is way to deep to remove killing the fish trying. It needs to be expressed barb or no barb cut the line as close to the mouth if it is hooked deep and let it go sooner with less handling.
Can you imagine if laws were passed on the later studies and only trebles were allowed. There would be some pretty ****ed off fly fishers.

Anyway just my thoughts

Alex Kreis

[Alex K]

Sorry I ment to say no disrespect at the beginning of last post.

Better proof read better next time. LOL

Alex Kreis

[Unknown303]

Alex what kind of problems is a fish going to have that swallows a hook? To me that's just a time bomb in that fishes gut since it's probably going to block anything that would normally pass through the fish.

[Pudelpointer]

8) Use Proper Gear - Consider fighting the trout quicker using the appropriate gear. Playing any trout for more than a minute or so can causes their body and muscles to become full of lactic acid. The longer you fight the trout, the more and more lactic acid builds up. ....

Sorry, but as others have already responded, this is not a simple cause/effect consideration.

While I agree with the general statement about using proper gear (as well as every other point you had), there are many variables that enter into the influence of lactic acid build up in trout survival.

I have fought some large trout for well over 20 minutes (steelhead) to land them, and know that they have survived the ordeal just fine. Anadromous fish are designed to deal with long periods of heavy exertion, and most other fish are quite able to deal with it. The key is in the handling of the fish and recovery time.

A properly played trout (fish) will be tired enough to not flip/flop/fly while you are unhooking it, nor will it be so exhausted that it can not recover.

A good rule of thumb is that you should allow as much time for a fish to recover as it took to land it. Often it will not take a fish that long to recover, but you should be willing to spend that much time to allow it.

[Alex K]

Fish are tougher than we give them credit for here. The hook will dissolve just don't use sal****er stainless steel hooks in fresh water and it will be gone on its own. The point I was making is to much time is spent by some anglers digging hooks out that are swallowed to deep. And these fish are being miss handled in most of these cases by an inexperienced angler. As most experienced anglers know to spend as little time handling the fish in the first place and they would have already cut the line.

Hope this helps

Alex Kreis

[Alex K]

8) Use Proper Gear - Consider fighting the trout quicker using the appropriate gear. Playing any trout for more than a minute or so can causes their body and muscles to become full of lactic acid. The longer you fight the trout, the more and more lactic acid builds up. ....

Sorry, but as others have already responded, this is not a simple cause/effect consideration.

While I agree with the general statement about using proper gear (as well as every other point you had), there are many variables that enter into the influence of lactic acid build up in trout survival.

I have fought some large trout for well over 20 minutes (steelhead) to land them, and know that they have survived the ordeal just fine. Anadromous fish are designed to deal with long periods of heavy exertion, and most other fish are quite able to deal with it. The key is in the handling of the fish and recovery time.

A properly played trout (fish) will be tired enough to not flip/flop/fly while you are unhooking it, nor will it be so exhausted that it can not recover.

A good rule of thumb is that you should allow as much time for a fish to recover as it took to land it. Often it will not take a fish that long to recover, but you should be willing to spend that much time to allow it.

Good point made.

As some fish can handle long runs and fights better than others as they are conditioned to run long and fast most of there life for survival. Other fish like big Northerns that sit at the top of their food chain and are more conditioned to fast short ambush attacks cannot handle long fights and do die if fought to long. Yes spend as much time reviving as needed but in some cases these big pike have a hard time of it.

Alex Kreis

[DarkAisling]

Great post, Sun. Thanks!

While there are some points that are being argued, your post is still an excellent guide and full of great information. I think it is pretty safe to say that the points you've posted err on the side of caution, which is exactly where I think they should be when educating newcomers to the sport.

[Sundancefisher]

Sundance, when I used to catch fish, for the hatchery - for 6 years, by rod and reel, they specifically told me to play the fish longer so it would be easier to handle and put into the live tube. Here's the thing, every single fish that I caught that didn't have some kind of outward laceration lived to spawn anywhere from 3 to 7 weeks later. I can assure you that those fish have under gone far more stress than most c&r anglers will ever put on a fish. IME, the biggest killer of fish under a prolonged time of stress is loss of their protective slime covering. Removal of the slime is much more serious than most people realize and leaves the fish open to a myriad of infections.

Will some fish die from poor handling and or being over played, of course. But on the other side, most fish and certainly from my experiences, trout, are far more rugged and resilient than most people give them credit for.

As long as people aren't being completely moronic with how they treat the fish then their chance of survival is very good.

I see a level of bias in your response...the bias I see is that you may be a very seasoned and careful catch and release fisherman. You may get away with playing a fish long and then you probably took the time to ensure those fish had fully recovered before release. The fight itself does not kill the fish...it is how the fish is handled afterwards. I believe you would agree...that the majority of anglers are probably not as skilled as yourself in the process you described...nor used recovery tubs, nor monitored them afterwards. The majority of anglers making this bad error would likely fight the fish to exhaustion then bring into the boat...flop, flop...snap a picture...flop...snap a picture...drop headfirst back into the water. The majority of those fish...will die...and yes the loss of slime will be an additional factor. The fish swim a bit...fall to the bottom...their gill plates are closed...pinned to the bottom and they suffocate. I see this behavoir sadly a lot in lakes.

What I am saying is that...your example is not a real world example...do you agree?

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

8) Use Proper Gear - Consider fighting the trout quicker using the appropriate gear. Playing any trout for more than a minute or so can causes their body and muscles to become full of lactic acid. The longer you fight the trout, the more and more lactic acid builds up. ....

Sorry, but as others have already responded, this is not a simple cause/effect consideration.

While I agree with the general statement about using proper gear (as well as every other point you had), there are many variables that enter into the influence of lactic acid build up in trout survival.

I have fought some large trout for well over 20 minutes (steelhead) to land them, and know that they have survived the ordeal just fine. Anadromous fish are designed to deal with long periods of heavy exertion, and most other fish are quite able to deal with it. The key is in the handling of the fish and recovery time.

A properly played trout (fish) will be tired enough to not flip/flop/fly while you are unhooking it, nor will it be so exhausted that it can not recover.

A good rule of thumb is that you should allow as much time for a fish to recover as it took to land it. Often it will not take a fish that long to recover, but you should be willing to spend that much time to allow it.

There is a clear cause and effect to over fighting a fish and releasing it too quickly. There is a bias in many people IMHO on this topic as they get defensive and figure they are perfect at releasing fish. I call NOT on that and from experience I am not perfect either. Still we all try to the level we feel we need to. You and I are probably of the subset that try really hard to revive regardless of water temperature. Others unfortunately are not either that knowledgeable or experienced to know any better. Hense this discussion is a great forum to cover the topic. If you disagree to these points so be it...however you may be following them without knowing and taking steps to mitigate what you are doing...which many do not. It is all about education IMHO.

Actually the "a minute" or so was a typo. Various fish of various sizes in various water temperatures have a range of endurance. Fighting a fish past that critical point where they are too exhausted to swim away is not good. That is the point...maybe a change of wording would work to clarify that. A minute is exaggerated...but the premise holds true. Using ultra light fly tippet and fighting a fish to exhaustion and then releasing...is a bad thing. Worse in warmer water for sure...but the thought that the fish kicked hard and disappeared is far from a guarantee that beauty you released is now not dead.

You point about taking the time to revive it is critical. So is the fact the fish probably used a ton of O2 fighting and probably has low O2 levels in their blood, you should probably take real care not to take the fish out of the water for any length of time.

[Sundancefisher]

Can you sight a source please. Trout can bleed like crazy when out of water as their blood uses water to clot, once put in the water the bleeding stops quickly in many cases.

It is common sense IMHO. This is something you can not measure in the field...and as for bleeding out a fish for study...I am sure someone did it...for a masters...

Think about how much blood is in a fish. If you nic a gill arch...the fish is a goner...I have seen it over and over again. I have seen it in all trout and a number of salmon. If you snag a fish and there is a few drops...that is something different.

A bleeding trout can clot...but if enough blood is gone...so is the fish. All animals run into shock and organ shut down and stroke when deprived of blood and blood pressure.

Feel free to do a search on the topic but to me common sense stuff like this is not required. Maybe someone can find a link for you.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Fish are tougher than we give them credit for here. The hook will dissolve just don't use sal****er stainless steel hooks in fresh water and it will be gone on its own. The point I was making is to much time is spent by some anglers digging hooks out that are swallowed to deep. And these fish are being miss handled in most of these cases by an inexperienced angler. As most experienced anglers know to spend as little time handling the fish in the first place and they would have already cut the line.

Hope this helps

Alex Kreis

I have seen a lot of hooks in fishes mouths over the years. They are slow to rust out in fresh water...however the fish do survive subject to I have seen a fair bit of disease and infection depending upon where the hook is. That being said a small fly in a throat is not as bad as a multi hooked plug or a large hook attached to a pickeral rig.

Your point is valid though...keeping a fish out of water, squeezing, dropping and digging away at the hook...especially if in the stomach entrance or near the gills is usually a very bad thing indeed.

[0liver]

Sundance, I am wondering as a little bit less experienced fisherman, that if my catch swims away very quickly, almost shooting away, dose that mean there okay? or will the poor thing still die! I have released many walleye from the NSR and they almost jet away like a torpedo, and are not bleeding at all [I use jigs and almost always get them threw the lip] its just I believe what you say about some seeming okay when they swim away but then later die.

i guess what i'm asking is, how do I judge a "good swim away" from a "slow death" because the NSR is usually really warm and now you have me feeling sick to my stomach with how many fish I have may have unintentionally harmed!

[i never remove my catch from the water though, I use barbless jigs and reach down with my needle nose and simply pop the jig out, and they jet away pretty quickly]

[Sundancefisher]

Good post Sundance,

Now no respect intended here as I always appreciate education as the best tool available to reduce mortality in released fish. However a few points here are scewed.

One slime removal is not as critical as proper handling. When we started filming I was hammered by arm chair biologists. One complaint was handling fish with a tailing glove and the fear I was removing slime. Well after a sit down with 2 biologists it was noted that removal of slime is not as critical as some would have you believe. Yes it is there protective coating but it also reproduces faster than your body produces siliva. One biologist said to me go ahead and try to spit out all your siliva. Rather odd comparison, but point was you never run out. As a matter of fact I ended up participating a Grayling egg take on quarry pond and I was shocked to see they actually took all the male fish and before they squeezed out their milt they would take a terry towel and dry them off completely. It was explained to me they had to do this so the eggs would not contact water until they were mixed with the eggs. Otherwise the milt was already useless in fertilizing the eggs. Water gets the cycle started on the sperm and they need to buy time so to speak. Then all the fish were released safe and sound.
Now keep in mind they don't want average joe doing this to fish. But point was is it is much less harmful to handle a fish with a glove and never mind worrying about the slime. More important not to drop the fish which you are much more likely to do with a wet bare hand. So careful how much emphasis is put on that. Lets focus more on proper handling techniques.

Second point is the barbless versus barbed, and single versus treble. There is no science that solidly suuports any of this. The first study that was done did show a higher mortality on fish caught with single barbless versus barbed trebles. Now since then another group found that study to be flawed. But by then states like Idaho jumped on this study and implemented a single barbless law. Since then other studies have shown a higher mortality in fish caught with single barbless than trebles. The way the biologist I spoke with that dug up all these studies explained his thoughts to me was that any good scientist knows that you can never base anything on just one study. You need a large number of studies then you can start to establish consistencies.
So really this is just a feel good law and yes it does make it easier for some to release fish easier. But it also creates a problem in another way that I continue to witness. I see alot of anglers take way more time trying to dig out a hook that is way to deep to remove killing the fish trying. It needs to be expressed barb or no barb cut the line as close to the mouth if it is hooked deep and let it go sooner with less handling.
Can you imagine if laws were passed on the later studies and only trebles were allowed. There would be some pretty ****ed off fly fishers.

Anyway just my thoughts

Alex Kreis

Hi Alex.

I believe the jist of the points I listed is not so much that necessarily any given one will kill a trout outright...but while some factors will kill outright...immediately...others cummulatively are bad and some kill later on. I have seen fish with back infections swimming around. They were not going to survive.

While I trust I understand you are not advocating it being safe to strip all the slime off a trout before release...trust what I am saying it to err on the safe side of careful handling by removing as little slime as possible.

Likewise as per previous posts...I agree with you on the premise that for you or I...barbed versus barbless is not materially different on mortality. Studies have shown this. The bias you and I and the studies have is that for the average person...they are not as knowledgeable, careful and experienced to release properly. Therefore this rule (while I hate it personally) does two things...1) it makes it more sporting for the fish...as you lose more and 2) for those less careful catch and releasers...there is less damage to the fish. Case in point is Quarry Lake. When hooks where barbed...most grayling had no maxilla (mouth part). After barbless...grayling retain maxilla.

So in the end...once again...what I am advocating is being aware of the factors impacting fish and their survival after release so that we retain more. Promoting this especially to beginners to have them develop these skills at the start of their life's fishing adventure...there will be that many more fish around to catch.

Cheers

Sun

[lannie]

Sun- You do profess to have "seen it all " and are a self proclaimed expert. Be careful, some people on here might know a lot more than you but do not grandstand.

[Sundancefisher]

Sundance, I am wondering as a little bit less experienced fisherman, that if my catch swims away very quickly, almost shooting away, dose that mean there okay? or will the poor thing still die! I have released many walleye from the NSR and they almost jet away like a torpedo, and are not bleeding at all [I use jigs and almost always get them threw the lip] its just I believe what you say about some seeming okay when they swim away but then later die.

i guess what i'm asking is, how do I judge a "good swim away" from a "slow death" because the NSR is usually really warm and now you have me feeling sick to my stomach with how many fish I have may have unintentionally harmed!

[i never remove my catch from the water though, I use barbless jigs and reach down with my needle nose and simply pop the jig out, and they jet away pretty quickly]

My rule of thumb is that if a fish darts away like your example that is the best example of a good release...most times. For a fish to have that energy is good. A slow wobbly swim away or a gentle glide to the bottom is the opposite of what we don't want to see.

If you keep the walleye in the water as much as possible...and limit handling and flopping around on the shore...by the sounds of it you are leading an excellent example of what to do correctly.

Taking into account all the points as you release fish will only ensure you do the best you can to have that walleye grow bigger to catch next year.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Sun- You do profess to have "seen it all " and are a self proclaimed expert. Be careful, some people on here might know a lot more than you but do not grandstand.

It is an open discussion. If you read my posts you would of read where I state I am not perfect myself...but I try my best. I have met many, many members from AOF...and I would be very surprised if anyone thought I was a grandstander...maybe a bit nuts...maybe a bit excentic, maybe just a big jokester.

As for "seen it all"...as a fishermen of many years...I learn something new every day...so take this statement as you like. I have my share of stalkers that feel I give my opinion too much. I say don't read it if you so chose. I also speak from experience as both an avid angler of 35 years but also with a degree and work experience as a fisheries biologist.

Sometimes to some people putting yourself out there and expressing constructive opinions and trying to help is seen as grandstanding. To others...lurking and never giving your opinion is seen as free loading. To each their own...I careless either way...but in the end if the information makes common sense...use it. Otherwise just ignore the posters you don't like.

Cheers

Sun

P.S. As for people that know more...if they have good information to help the AOF community...I welcome it. We can always use more of it.

[Jayhad]

It is common sense IMHO.

So not factual.......:sign0161:

[Sundancefisher]

So not factual.......:sign0161:

If you feel you can lose a lot of your blood or most of your blood and not have it affect you...you are way more evolved that every other animal on the planet. :thinking-006:

Or are you from this planet? :scared:

Ask a health care professional if you need proof it is dangerous before you try and lose a bunch of blood yourself. :)

No...seroiusly now...please don't try to convince new fishermen or old for that matter that tossing a significantly bleeding trout back into a lake or river is a wise move if you can legally keep it under your limit.

[Jayhad]

I'm not the one trying to convince anyone about the proper way of releasing trout based on your laymans understanding and what you state is common sense. I asked you to support your claims that you are stating as fact, you came back with your opinion.... your opinion. An opinion which means nothing if it has no backing, that's why I asked for factual, scientific proof. You responded with more keyboard crap... good one you convinced me.

[Alex K]

Hi Sundancer,

As you pointed out with the maxillas missing on the Grayiling that is true I saw that but as you also noticed the fish were alive and healthy. Most biologists agree barbed hook damage is usually only cosmetic damage not life threatening. I have seen more dameg from using the wrong net on fish than a barbed hook. And we are not just discussing trout here. But I have seen trout get damaged badly by nymph fishing a tiny single barbless hook caught deep and in the gills. So bottom line we are playing a bloo sport here and we have to understand even the best and most experienced anglers will on average cause about a 10 percent mortality on all fish caught and released.
So all I am saying is lets focus on teaching proper handling and carrying the right tools to do the best job we can to handle and release fish in the quickest, most gentle way we can and properly revive our fish as well.
All your points are good guidelines but I think sometimes focus drifts into the feel good world not reality.

Again my thoughts and from my experience and time spent discussing, filming and documenting facts over my years of angling and featuring these questions with bilogists that work in the field.

Alex Kreis

[Alex K]

sorry for all the typos on my last post

Alex

[BCSteel]

What I am saying is that...your example is not a real world example...do you agree?

Sun

With out getting too elabourate about the brood fishing, many fish were hiked out in only a few liters of water in a back pack for up to 20 min. The recovery tank was an unaerated tub in the back of my truck. The monitoring consisted of 30 min to up to 3 hours locked in the tub while being transported down old logging roads.

To an extent I would agree. Do most anglers do some kind of recovery before releasing a fish, IME yes. Is it adequate for survival, I'd have to say that the majority of the time yes it is. What I'm not ok with is the constant insistance that trout, or any game fish, are this extremly delicate and fragile thing that needs to be constantly babied and treated more delicatly than a faberge egg. If its said enough then people will begin to believe it and question wether it is right to even angle for them. Just as fear mongering by environmental extremists about the possible side effects of pesticides when seriously abused has and is leading to the ban of pesticide use across the country, constantly expounding on how fragile a trout can be will eventually lead to lost opportunities for the majority that know better.

To be fair to your arguments, most of my experiences are based on angling in moving water, sloughs, creeks, rivers, that kind of thing, and I suspect that a lot of your experiences are coming from fishing still waters and even though the conditions of the water on release are different I still havent noticed a difference in mortality.

One thing is certain, you and I both share an higher than average respect for the fish and their well being.

[Sundancefisher]

Hi Sundancer,

As you pointed out with the maxillas missing on the Grayiling that is true I saw that but as you also noticed the fish were alive and healthy. Most biologists agree barbed hook damage is usually only cosmetic damage not life threatening. I have seen more dameg from using the wrong net on fish than a barbed hook. And we are not just discussing trout here. But I have seen trout get damaged badly by nymph fishing a tiny single barbless hook caught deep and in the gills. So bottom line we are playing a bloo sport here and we have to understand even the best and most experienced anglers will on average cause about a 10 percent mortality on all fish caught and released.
So all I am saying is lets focus on teaching proper handling and carrying the right tools to do the best job we can to handle and release fish in the quickest, most gentle way we can and properly revive our fish as well.
All your points are good guidelines but I think sometimes focus drifts into the feel good world not reality.

Again my thoughts and from my experience and time spent discussing, filming and documenting facts over my years of angling and featuring these questions with bilogists that work in the field.

Alex Kreis

I think we are in agreement on the over all principles here.

Cheers

Kevin

[Sundancefisher]

With out getting too elabourate about the brood fishing, many fish were hiked out in only a few liters of water in a back pack for up to 20 min. The recovery tank was an unaerated tub in the back of my truck. The monitoring consisted of 30 min to up to 3 hours locked in the tub while being transported down old logging roads.

To an extent I would agree. Do most anglers do some kind of recovery before releasing a fish, IME yes. Is it adequate for survival, I'd have to say that the majority of the time yes it is. What I'm not ok with is the constant insistance that trout, or any game fish, are this extremly delicate and fragile thing that needs to be constantly babied and treated more delicatly than a faberge egg. If its said enough then people will begin to believe it and question wether it is right to even angle for them. Just as fear mongering by environmental extremists about the possible side effects of pesticides when seriously abused has and is leading to the ban of pesticide use across the country, constantly expounding on how fragile a trout can be will eventually lead to lost opportunities for the majority that know better.

To be fair to your arguments, most of my experiences are based on angling in moving water, sloughs, creeks, rivers, that kind of thing, and I suspect that a lot of your experiences are coming from fishing still waters and even though the conditions of the water on release are different I still havent noticed a difference in mortality.

One thing is certain, you and I both share an higher than average respect for the fish and their well being.

I think we are also in agreement. I don't say trout are that fragile...just some common sense and respect insofar as our methods can easily make all the difference. Many people do...however I personally see many that don't. I also have some cool stories as a biologist as to what fish can survive or not. They can have amazing stories...but common sense prevails. It is a great resource and a great sport. I hate to see trout wasted rather than harvested as others may miss out as a result...and I like eating fish.

Still I have seen the classic...1 million photos before release...fish died. I have seen the flopping on shore looking for plyers...fish died. I have seen fish bashed around in a boat...died. I have seen fish with bad infections...died. I have seen fish exhausted...died. I can not deny these facts... I can not deny stuff happens. But no one can deny that with a few simple rules, common sense and respect for both the fish and other anglers...you can release a fish with a great probability of survival...just as simply as you can do the opposite and ensure it's demise...without harvesting.

[BCSteel]

One slime removal is not as critical as proper handling. When we started filming I was hammered by arm chair biologists. One complaint was handling fish with a tailing glove and the fear I was removing slime. Well after a sit down with 2 biologists it was noted that removal of slime is not as critical as some would have you believe. Yes it is there protective coating but it also reproduces faster than your body produces siliva. One biologist said to me go ahead and try to spit out all your siliva. Rather odd comparison, but point was you never run out. As a matter of fact I ended up participating a Grayling egg take on quarry pond and I was shocked to see they actually took all the male fish and before they squeezed out their milt they would take a terry towel and dry them off completely. It was explained to me they had to do this so the eggs would not contact water until they were mixed with the eggs. Otherwise the milt was already useless in fertilizing the eggs. Water gets the cycle started on the sperm and they need to buy time so to speak. Then all the fish were released safe and sound.
Now keep in mind they don't want average joe doing this to fish. But point was is it is much less harmful to handle a fish with a glove and never mind worrying about the slime. More important not to drop the fish which you are much more likely to do with a wet bare hand. So careful how much emphasis is put on that. Lets focus more on proper handling techniques.
Alex Kreis

The comparison between spitting and fish slime is absurd at best. Your saliva isnt your primary barrier between bacteria and infection.

My experiences in a hatchery setting with wild captured fish have been the exact opposite of this and I have seen the aftermath of the effect of tailing gloves first hand. Virtually every fish that was held in the hatchery that had a glove used to expediate landing during capture had infections in the exact area where they were held, often to the point of having individual finger prints around the wrist of the tail. If these fish needed to be held for any length of time they needed constant attention to keep the fungus from over taking the fish and causing mortality. These were also live spawned fish that were released back into the wild after spawning so the focus was on not only the successful spawning of the fish but also their subsequent survival.

With that being said, a fish being held in a hatchery is under a large stress load simply by being held in an unnatural environment. This in its self will contribute to the rate of infection being higher. But, a fish released into the wild will not necessarily be ok just because its back "home". Any number of factors can work against them once released in their compromised state. Local bacterial levels can play a roll and more importantly, warmer water temps (meaning on the higher side of optimum) will drastically shorten the amount of time a fish has to mend its self before it is back up to optimum health.

[Sundancefisher]

I'm not the one trying to convince anyone about the proper way of releasing trout based on your laymans understanding and what you state is common sense. I asked you to support your claims that you are stating as fact, you came back with your opinion.... your opinion. An opinion which means nothing if it has no backing, that's why I asked for factual, scientific proof. You responded with more keyboard crap... good one you convinced me.

Sure...call it an opinion versus fact. You feel a fish can lose lots of blood and survive. Unfortunately simple biology proves otherwise.

This link shows blood loss kills em dead.

:)

http://spo.nmfs.noaa.gov/mfr434/mfr4342.pdf

http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCollectionDocuments/DOW/Research/Aquatic/pdf/Postreleasemortality.pdf

This study address bleeding caused hooking mortality.

http://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/Fish%20Res%20-%20Gutowsky%20et%20al%202011.pdf

While hook type could not be an indicator of bleeding potential...bleeding was a major mortality factor.

"Although this is too low an estimate
to warrant further evaluation, these results still reflect the existing
catch-and-release literature, where mortality or a reduction
in the likelihood of survival was often associated with a hooking
injury to the gill and the resultant blood loss"

While this was a bull trout study...it does point to blood loss concerns by biologists. My experience doing surgery on bull trout yielded similar results to this study. Bull trout are an amazingly robust trout.

Cheers

Sun

[Alex K]

BCsteel,

I know what you are saying as I too have seen these marks. However in a tank environment as you ponted out they are highly susceptible to disease and fungus in that artificial environment. Just look at brood fish that are released. I have caught them with fungus on them after they were released. In most cases this clears up once they have been in a more natural environmet for some time.
My point was that it is again a place that does not harm organs or gills and is the best place to grasp a fish by the caudel peduncle. Using a glove minimizes the chance of dropping them. And allows and angler an opportunity to take a good picture while holding the tail and supporting the belly. Giving the fish its best chance for survival. An inexperienced angler is who all this was addressed to in the first place and I am only saying they are more likely to drop a fish if all they focus on is not harming the slime coat. The spitting reference was made by a fisheries biologist in the fact that we reproduce spit the same way fish reproduce slime. Not that we need it for protection.
So dont compare tank effect to lake or stream effect.
As I said the slime is important but not something we should stay focused on.

Alex Kreis

[Sundancefisher]

BCsteel,

I know what you are saying as I too have seen these marks. However in a tank environment as you ponted out they are highly susceptible to disease and fungus in that artificial environment. Just look at brood fish that are released. I have caught them with fungus on them after they were released. In most cases this clears up once they have been in a more natural environmet for some time.

Now this would an interesting study. I have seen in our lake that once a fish gets it...it just seems to get worse and worse until it dies or gets taken by the osprey. We can tell cause of distinctive markings and the whiteness as it swims around.

[BCSteel]

Now this would an interesting study. I have seen in our lake that once a fish gets it...it just seems to get worse and worse until it dies or gets taken by the osprey. We can tell cause of distinctive markings and the whiteness as it swims around.

The same happens with river fish as well, once a fish gets it it becomes hard for a fish to fight off the infection. Small localized areas of slime loss happen naturally and a fishs immune system is able to deal with these for the most part but no where in nature does the slime become so thouroughly removed over such a large area as it does when an angler uses a glove to handle the fish.


Just look at brood fish that are released. I have caught them with fungus on them after they were released. In most cases this clears up once they have been in a more natural environmet for some time.

What constitutes "some time"? What kind of conditions are you releasing the fish in that the loss of a significant portion of its protective coating makes absoutly no difference in the survival of the fish?

My point was that it is again a place that does not harm organs or gills and is the best place to grasp a fish by the caudel peduncle. Using a glove minimizes the chance of dropping them. And allows and angler an opportunity to take a good picture while holding the tail and supporting the belly. Giving the fish its best chance for survival. An inexperienced angler is who all this was addressed to in the first place and I am only saying they are more likely to drop a fish if all they focus on is not harming the slime coat.

And so instead of focusing on the protection of their first and primary barrier to infection your focusing on the potential for dropping a fish. A poor trade off at best. The advocation of something that will compromise a fishs first line of defence (using a glove) is a sad substitute for using an apropriate method of restraint (c&r net) that will protect the entire fish from harm. This is assuming that some kind of restraint is even necessary, which it usually is not.

The spitting reference was made by a fisheries biologist in the fact that we reproduce spit the same way fish reproduce slime. Not that we need it for protection.

And so it has absoutly no bearing on this conversation.

So dont compare tank effect to lake or stream effect.
As I said the slime is important but not something we should stay focused on.

The reality is that even though you say its not important, it is actually vital to the survival of the fish and advocating for a method that purposly removes a large protion of a fishs defence barrier simply so that anglers can get "a good picture" harms more fish that it will ever save.

[Cowboybob]

This has been an interesting read. A lot of good facts and some questionable opinions. I've spent a fair bit of my career rearing (over 50 million), handling (unknown thousands) and conducting research on fish including quite a bit of published research on the effects of catch and release in both laboratory and natural environments. There are a whole bunch of factors that enter into the picture in terms of affecting catch and release mortality including species of fish, water temperature, hardness, pH, physiological state (fat and glycogen levels), stage of maturity, and hooking location (some hooks, particularly baited j-hooks, are more likely to hook fish in critical locations).

In general, and legal issues aside, the information Sundancefisher has provided in the opening post is good and sound advice. BCSteel's comments above on the importance of maintaining the integrity of the mucous layer should also be heeded. If I were to sum up my experience and that reflected in scientific literature it would be:

- fish breath as well out of water as humans do underwater - i.e. - the longer you keep a fish, particularly an exhausted fish, out of the water the more likely it is that it will die

- the more they bleed, the more they die. That's not rocket science. They may (I emphasize may) survive damage to gill filaments but I've never seen one survive damage to gill arches.

- the more you handle them, the more they die. The use of knotless mesh nets is recommended. Unfortunately these can be difficult to find. Knotted mesh is more abrasive and can damage skin integrity and, particularly on larger fish, abrade the eyes. Most fishing gloves are made with the fishermen in mind to give you a good grip. That means they are abrasive. I've used them to hold broodstock that we intended to sacrifice afterwards but not to hold fish that I want to survive.

The longer you play a fish, the more likely it is to die. There's a reason those professional guys like to get the fish in the live well as soon as possible - dead fish don't count.

[Alex K]

BCSteel

Holy,

No where in my post did I ever say the slime coat was not a protective coat. Read and yinderstand what I am saying I have agreed with everything everyone has made. I am only concerned that we need to make sure people hndle fish properly. And an inexperienced angler is more likely to drop a fish when handling if they don't understand the importance of how. I have watched many experienced and inexperienced angler drop fish trying to handle them with bare hands dropping fish on the shore, rocks, etc.

Alex

[Alex K]

BCSteel

Sorry for my typos, Anyway my information about slime coat comes not from me but the shared opinion of several fisheries biologists. They all have told me slime coat is a protective coating, but it also reproduces itself as soon as the fish enters the water. So when I was filming our television show my concern was to educate anglers. So I wanted to make sure I was giving proper information. With that said they expressed to me it was a far greater concern that we teach proper handling as the risk of damage was far greater in mishandled fish than worrying about slime coat. In otherwords I am not advocating that we go out of our way to remove it. I am only saying to focus more on handling as the biologists suggested to me.

Myself I use everything from cradles, to rubber nets, to soft meshed trout nets what ever the situation calls for to minimize stress and time out of water for fish I am handling. But you can't tell me that a soft net or cradle takes less slime off a fish than does a tailing glove. My cradle or soft mesh is always dripping slime after releasing a fish. So tell me should we advocate everyone should just handle all fish with bare hands and risk having fish dropped on rocks, bottom of boats and otherwise. Because you know as well as I anglers want to take pictures will take pictures and will handle fish.

So can we not agree on the importance of being able to handle fish properly first. And making sure we carry the proper tools to handle and release fish with minimal damage.

Not trying to argue here, just trying to add knowledge that was given to me for the purpose of education by the experts.

Alex Kreis

[Sundancefisher]

BCSteel

Holy,

No where in my post did I ever say the slime coat was not a protective coat. Read and yinderstand what I am saying I have agreed with everything everyone has made. I am only concerned that we need to make sure people hndle fish properly. And an inexperienced angler is more likely to drop a fish when handling if they don't understand the importance of how. I have watched many experienced and inexperienced angler drop fish trying to handle them with bare hands dropping fish on the shore, rocks, etc.

Alex

If an angler is planning to release the trout they should not be bringing it out of the water if at all possible. If needed a rubber no knot net should be used IMHO. I never use a glove but I have tried one and IMHO it is not needed if you handle the trout correctly.

In general...if you are lifting a fish over the rocks...that practice could change to the benefit of catch and release mortality.