Bass? Alberta?

[Tezma]

Why won't they stock a lake in alberta full of small mouth bass?

There fun as hell to catch.

I say throw some into Badger lake and Mcgregor....



What do you guys think?
Also is there any bass in alberta?

[Tezma]

I found this and I will Quote

"Smallmouth bass were introduced into Alberta in the early to mid 20th century by
individuals or managers acting on their own initiative; these fish did not survive (Scott
and Crossman 1973; Nelson and Paetz 1992). Some reproduction of a small
population introduced between 1977 and 1984 into Island Lake, north of the town of
Smoky Lake in south-eastern Alberta, has been observed. Remnants of this population
may still exist (Nelson and Paetz 1992)."

Here is the URL for this, http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/337846.pdf

Also Quote

"Fish stocking and fish transfers have a colourful history in Alberta. Fisheries
managers introduced large and smallmouth bass into Sylvan, Gull and Cooking
lakes in 1908 and into Lac La Nonne in 1924."

Here is the URL for this, http://www.whyte.org/time/riveroflife/fishmgmt.pdf


Reading all of this and I was thinking.
Do you think there are some bass still alive in Island lake?

[pickrel pat]

oh please not another bass in alberta thread........ if you do a search you will find 20 pages of this topic....i beleive there was a poll in the thread as well.

[huntsfurfish]

yup, do a search on the subject!

[horsetrader]

Why won't they stock a lake in alberta full of small mouth bass?

There fun as hell to catch.

I say throw some into Badger lake and Mcgregor....



What do you guys think?
Also is there any bass in alberta?

Nothing wrong with another BASS thread most people in Alberta don't know what their missing. Don't believe it will ever happen but thats just another lose for Alberta and Albertans.

[BGSH]

trout and bass get along just fine, but dont throw bass in a pike lake

[Rockymtnx]

Here is 20 pages of Alberta Bass discussions for your reading.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=88104&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=97997&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=87670&highlight=bass+alberta

[npauls]

This should get good. :party0052:

[pickrel pat]

trout and bass get along just fine, but dont throw bass in a pike lake

anyone way out east care to comment? lol....

[greylynx]

i found this and i will quote

"smallmouth bass were introduced into alberta in the early to mid 20th century by
individuals or managers acting on their own initiative; these fish did not survive (scott
and crossman 1973; nelson and paetz 1992). Some reproduction of a small
population introduced between 1977 and 1984 into island lake, north of the town of
smoky lake in south-eastern alberta, has been observed. Remnants of this population
may still exist (nelson and paetz 1992)."

here is the url for this, http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/library/337846.pdf

also quote

"fish stocking and fish transfers have a colourful history in alberta. Fisheries
managers introduced large and smallmouth bass into sylvan, gull and cooking
lakes in 1908 and into lac la nonne in 1924."

here is the url for this, http://www.whyte.org/time/riveroflife/fishmgmt.pdf


reading all of this and i was thinking.
Do you think there are some bass still alive in island lake?

yes but don't tell anyone.

[WayneChristie]

whats a bass?:thinking-006:

[chubbdarter]

Any Bass is better than those sick creepy trout in BPS

[SonnyJ]

whats a bass?:thinking-006:

That's what Daddy sang..:)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGUP8oc9Bgs&feature=related

[horsetrader]

Here is 20 pages of Alberta Bass discussions for your reading.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=88104&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=97997&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=87670&highlight=bass+alberta

Nothing wrong with 21.............:sign0087:

[burbotman]

Any Bass is better than those sick creepy trout in BPS

So true!!!! Some messed up fish in there

[gonefishin]

That's what Daddy sang..:)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGUP8oc9Bgs&feature=related

That's funny.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[whitetail Junkie]

+ 1 For Bass lakes in Alberta.I fished them in BC,ontario and Quebec,and they are one of the most fun fish to catch,and they taste just like walleye&perch.

Burbot Man,....I like your profile picture!

[huntsfurfish]

Nothing wrong with a road trip to BC or other destinations for bass. Alberta doesnt need every species that swims.:)

[horsetrader]

Nothing wrong with a road trip to BC or other destinations for bass. Alberta doesnt need every species that swims.:)

No but a few less trout and a few bass would be an excellent trade off...:)

[huntsfurfish]

No but a few less trout and a few bass would be an excellent trade off...:)

Ya I guess it would would be good to replace some walleye lakes with smallies. But first we have to get rid o them pickeral and snot rockets.:)

[Chris84]

No but a few less trout and a few bass would be an excellent trade off...:)

It would be a nice trade off, but I think we need to learn how to better manage the current species residing in Alberta waters before there is any talk of re-introducing species here.

[horsetrader]

It would be a nice trade off, but I think we need to learn how to better manage the current species residing in Alberta waters before there is any talk of re-introducing species here.

But why they have been re-introducing trout in to alberta waters for years

[Chris84]

But why they have been re-introducing trout in to alberta waters for years

True enough, you're talking about put and take ponds and the like? If they introduce them on smaller scale ponds in place of trout, that could be feasible (and fun!)

[horsetrader]

True enough, you're talking about put and take ponds and the like? If they introduce them on smaller scale ponds in place of trout, that could be feasible (and fun!)

Yes theres no doubt it would have to be done on a put and take until there is found a way for them to survive on their own here if ever. The unfortunate thing would be that once a fly fishermen hooked a smallie he's hooked for good.....lol

[Jorg]

Smallmouth Bass could of easily been introduced into Crawlingvalley instead of trout when it was first filled both are non native fish.

[N8orDie]

I hear catching bass on flies is pretty awesome.

[Unregistered user]

Power plant cooling ponds would be good, see the Sheerness thread.

[Rockymtnx]

Since there is so much talk about getting bass back into Alberta, I was wondering if any of you have submitted a resolution through your local F&G club to SRD to get them back in Alberta?

[Chris84]

The unfortunate thing would be that once a fly fishermen hooked a smallie he's hooked for good.....lol

That good eh? I sure hope I get the chance to try that.

[Chris84]

Since there is so much talk about getting bass back into Alberta, I was wondering if any of you have submitted a resolution through your local F&G club to SRD to get them back in Alberta?

Nope. I personally want to see our current species managed better. Thats not meant to be a shot at our current fish management, its just that Alberta is up against a unique challenge.......loads of fishermen, not too many lakes to fish from.

[horsetrader]

Since there is so much talk about getting bass back into Alberta, I was wondering if any of you have submitted a resolution through your local F&G club to SRD to get them back in Alberta?

Have not submitted anything through any F&G club but contacted SRD over a year ago had a few correspondence with them. Their main response was that there was some much money spent on restocking now that to get involved in restocking another species would take to much money away from on going projects. I do believe this to a degree you don't want to lose what has be cultivated over the years. The only problem with this situation so much of the stocking is put and take that it will always be an ongoing issue and will never cease to drain the funds. The only recourse is to allow privatization of Bass ponds and lakes as they have done with trout in other areas. There is no doubt a Bass fishery in Alberta as a self sustained fishery is highly unlikely in the near future what could happen in the distant future with hybrids or breeding its hard to say what could be done.

[The Great White Hype]

Here is 20 pages of Alberta Bass discussions for your reading.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=88104&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=97997&highlight=bass+alberta

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=87670&highlight=bass+alberta

And is there something wrong with getting some fresh opinions? Go ahead, post new threads, it is after all a fishing "discussion", not a fishing "search engine". :snapoutofit:

Global warming has caused many changes in our weather patterns, and often times lakes are warmer now than they have ever been. The chances of stocked bass surviving have most likely increased.

I would like to have some close by, but driving 3 hours is no big deal to me. There are lots of bass close to home...

[Christofficer]

If the bass can even survive our winters, I think it would be a bad idea. Like perch, people would bucket them into lakes and rivers where they shouldn't be. And they're a predator species, It wouldn't be hard for them to compete with pike. I think it would be a good idea though to stock them into lakes that were illegally stocked with perch. They'd clear up that problem pretty well I think.

[horsetrader]

If the bass can even survive our winters, I think it would be a bad idea. Like perch, people would bucket them into lakes and rivers where they shouldn't be. And they're a predator species, It wouldn't be hard for them to compete with pike. I think it would be a good idea though to stock them into lakes that were illegally stocked with perch. They'd clear up that problem pretty well I think.

People always seem to be afraid of them being bucketed in to other waters but that is posable with any fish at any time.

[Christofficer]

Explain how it would be just as easy, to get bass from another province and transport them here, as it would for them to get bass from an alberta stocked lake. It would be way harder to transfer fish from province to province, rather than someone doing it locally, don't you think? Most ppl who transfer fish species illegally don't have the means to do that.

[horsetrader]

Explain how it would be just as easy, to get bass from another province and transport them here, as it would for them to get bass from an alberta stocked lake. It would be way harder to transfer fish from province to province, rather than someone doing it locally, don't you think? Most ppl who transfer fish species illegally don't have the means to do that.

Sorry perhaps I did not say it right what I was getting at it is just as easy for some one to take Perch, Pike, Walleye, or any other fish and put them in to any trout ponds or lakes as what it would be for them to do it with Bass

[fishpro]

Sorry perhaps I did not say it right what I was getting at it is just as easy for some one to take Perch, Pike, Walleye, or any other fish and put them in to any trout ponds or lakes as what it would be for them to do it with Bass

My guess for why it doesn't happen regularly for other species is that there isn't the same motivation for it as those species are already well distributed throughout Alberta. The exception to this is perch, people may know that they can easily survive in smaller ponds and therefore it may be worth it to them to transport them to a new place.

I think it would be different for bass, as they would most likely be introduced to only a few places first, so people would start catching them and want them elsewhere, then take it upon themselves to move them around and illegally introduce them wherever they wanted. If they got put into certain places it could be very bad for local fish populations there and affect the entire lake.

[horsetrader]

My guess for why it doesn't happen regularly for other species is that there isn't the same motivation for it as those species are already well distributed throughout Alberta. The exception to this is perch, people may know that they can easily survive in smaller ponds and therefore it may be worth it to them to transport them to a new place.

I think it would be different for bass, as they would most likely be introduced to only a few places first, so people would start catching them and want them elsewhere, then take it upon themselves to move them around and illegally introduce them wherever they wanted. If they got put into certain places it could be very bad for local fish populations there and affect the entire lake.

But see that is a contradiction to what has been said many times over Bass can not survive in Alberta waters so how can they affect the natural fish population

[greylynx]

Why don't you Bass fisherman get a pile of money together, stock a private water body without taxpayer funds, and you will all have a happy time.

Remember, no taxpayer funds.

[fishfinder.alberta]

Caught a pile of smallmouth bass in northern Idaho the last week of August. They were awesome to catch! Most of them went airborne during the battles. The boys and I had a great week. Just had a few for supper this evening. They are right up there with Walleye for sure.

Too bad that they aren't native here. I'm not even sure that many of our lakes would be suitable for them either. They like clean, clear water - disqualifying many of our lakes.

Oh well... I'll just have to head to BC, Manitoba or Idaho to get my fill of these exciting game fish.

[Tezma]

Caught a pile of smallmouth bass in northern Idaho the last week of August. They were awesome to catch! Most of them went airborne during the battles. The boys and I had a great week. Just had a few for supper this evening. They are right up there with Walleye for sure.

Too bad that they aren't native here. I'm not even sure that many of our lakes would be suitable for them either. They like clean, clear water - disqualifying many of our lakes.

Oh well... I'll just have to head to BC, Manitoba or Idaho to get my fill of these exciting game fish.

Welcome to the forums.

I think mcgregor lake res would be suitable.
I would think. Big enough as well

[Unregistered user]

Bass do well in mucky water too as anyone who has caught them in Duck lake near Creston will attest. Maybe bass won't do well here for the same reason we can't grow peaches.

[horsetrader]

Why don't you Bass fisherman get a pile of money together, stock a private water body without taxpayer funds, and you will all have a happy time.

Remember, no taxpayer funds.

No my tax dollars and i pay a lot go towards restocking in alberta and my license money goes the same place as your so don't see why i must do it without tax dollars.

[TheKi]

i did a thread a few months ago and came up short

[jungleboy]

yup, do a search on the subject!


If everyone just did a search instead of starting a new thread, this forum would die in a week.Every topic, other than maybe what you had for breakfast on a particular day has been covered time and again on here and every other forum I'm sure.

I don't understand why people get all bent out of shape about bringing up a topic more than once. If you think a thread has had too much exposure then don't respond . Pretty simple if you ask me.

[horsetrader]

If everyone just did a search instead of starting a new thread, this forum would die in a week.Every topic, other than maybe what you had for breakfast on a particular day has been covered time and again on here and every other forum I'm sure.

I don't understand why people get all bent out of shape about bringing up a topic more than once. If you think a thread has had too much exposure then don't respond . Pretty simple if you ask me.

There are new people coming to this forum every day along with those new people comes new opinions and new information if you find a subject repetitive don't read it don't respond to it ..........your right it is simple.

[mszomola]

I still think at the very least , offering bass would take attention off walleye and trout ...

[whitetail Junkie]

No my tax dollars and i pay a lot go towards restocking in alberta and my license money goes the same place as your so don't see why i must do it without tax dollars.

x2 I'm sick of Alot of MY Tax dollars going to Trout.They have there place big Time in alberta which is a good thing because they are fun to fish for ,but enough is enough.Bring on The Bass!

[avb3]

Here we go again.

Why do some sportsmen/women insist on wanting to play "god".

What is it that they don't understand the mess that happens when non-indigenous species are introduced into an ecosystem?

NO, NO, and a thousand times NO!!!

BTW, the stocking of fish pond etc. are not funded by tax dollars, but by a portion of your license fees.

Let's try and deal with the challenges that exist in Alberta's fisheries, and not try and mess it up by introducing new challenges.

[jesse34567]

Alberta hasn't been able to figure out this mess for a long time, I think it's time to forge a new path. Small introductions here and there would benefit us and offer more variety.

[whitetail Junkie]

Here we go again.

Why do some sportsmen/women insist on wanting to play "god".

What is it that they don't understand the mess that happens when non-indigenous species are introduced into an ecosystem?

NO, NO, and a thousand times NO!!!

BTW, the stocking of fish pond etc. are not funded by tax dollars, but by a portion of your license fees.

Let's try and deal with the challenges that exist in Alberta's fisheries, and not try and mess it up by introducing new challenges.

So what fish in Alberta are'nt Native? I know that bull trout are a Native fish,but what species are'nt native?

[horsetrader]

Here we go again.

Why do some sportsmen/women insist on wanting to play "god".

What is it that they don't understand the mess that happens when non-indigenous species are introduced into an ecosystem?

NO, NO, and a thousand times NO!!!

BTW, the stocking of fish pond etc. are not funded by tax dollars, but by a portion of your license fees.

Let's try and deal with the challenges that exist in Alberta's fisheries, and not try and mess it up by introducing new challenges.

They have been stocking put and take trout waters for years maybe its about time to stock put and take with Bass as there is already natural trout waters why do we also need them in put and take some dy the old boys club has to wake up and realize there is more to fish then trout and people want to try them

[Christofficer]

The only species of fish that aren't native are brown, brook, and most rainbow populations.


Look, this is rediculous. They stocked the rivers with brown and rainbows and they survived and were able to breed. They stocked many lakes with bass and NONE of their populations survived except for maybe island lake, and a small population if any at all. They've tried it, it failed. What more do you guys want? If you want to fish for bass, either move to a different province or take a trip. Alot determines whether a population of fish can survive in a body of water. You can't just throw things in a water body and expect them to survive. Do you even know what water alkalinity is?


No my tax dollars and i pay a lot go towards restocking in alberta and my license money goes the same place as your so don't see why i must do it without tax dollars.

Because it's a waste of money. So maybe waste your own instead of everyone else's? that's probably what he meant.


And fishpro, you got it right buddy. That's exactly what I meant.

[horsetrader]

The only species of fish that aren't native are brown, brook, and most rainbow populations.


Look, this is rediculous. They stocked the rivers with brown and rainbows and they survived and were able to breed. They stocked many lakes with bass and NONE of their populations survived except for maybe island lake, and a small population if any at all. They've tried it, it failed. What more do you guys want? If you want to fish for bass, either move to a different province or take a trip. Alot determines whether a population of fish can survive in a body of water. You can't just throw things in a water body and expect them to survive. Do you even know what water alkalinity is?



Because it's a waste of money. So maybe waste your own instead of everyone else's? that's probably what he meant.


And fishpro, you got it right buddy. That's exactly what I meant.


So your saying its ok to throw away money on PUT AND TAKE Trout but not on put and take Bass very open minded aren't you Well i think enough of my money has been wasted on trout that don't survive

Bass can and have survived in different waters with different ph levels they will adapt to hp faster and better then trout

[horsetrader]

There are 65 species of fish in Alberta, 54 that are native or have well-established introduced populations and 11 additional exotic species.

[huntsfurfish]

If everyone just did a search instead of starting a new thread, this forum would die in a week.Every topic, other than maybe what you had for breakfast on a particular day has been covered time and again on here and every other forum I'm sure.

I don't understand why people get all bent out of shape about bringing up a topic more than once. If you think a thread has had too much exposure then don't respond . Pretty simple if you ask me.

I wonder if there might not be some useful info in past threads? Much of the info in those threads is pertinent to this thread!

[huntsfurfish]

There are new people coming to this forum every day along with those new people comes new opinions and new information if you find a subject repetitive don't read it don't respond to it ..........your right it is simple.

See previous post!

[huntsfurfish]

Simple - this day and age fisheries personel are reluctant to introduce new species! And rightly so!

Should we be able to fish for asian carp in AB just because I want them or what about snakeshead?

What they did by importing species in the 1920's or there abouts does NOT justify what they have learned since then!

If you want to fish for bass - go to them. Take a trip. Sheesh.

[horsetrader]

I wonder if there might not be some useful info in past threads? Much of the info in those threads is pertinent to this thread!

I agree I think a search is good you can get some good information but I don't think someone should be afraid of staring a new thread sometimes it will bring new info. it sparks new interest in an old subject.

[horsetrader]

Simple - this day and age fisheries personel are reluctant to introduce new species! And rightly so!

Should we be able to fish for asian carp in AB just because I want them or what about snakeshead?

What they did by importing species in the 1920's or there abouts does NOT justify what they have learned since then!

If you want to fish for bass - go to them. Take a trip. Sheesh.

See this is what i don't understand this is just a simple post about bass in alberta and the true friggin bloods get all worked up over people talking about it.No one is being forced to introduce bass and if they are introduced your not being forced to fish for them. It is a discussion if you don't like the discussion then don't read it.SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!. Just remember if it was not for the introduction of new species or the stocking of put and take you would not have the fishery that you do.

[Elk Chaser]

Nothing wrong with a road trip to BC or other destinations for bass. Alberta doesnt need every species that swims.:)

Alberta needs MACKERAL

[avb3]

So what fish in Alberta are'nt Native? I know that bull trout are a Native fish,but what species are'nt native?

Neither rainbow trout (with the exception of the threatened Athabasca rainbow trout) or brown trout are native.

As a result the western cutthroat and the Athabasca rainbow trout are both now either endangered or threatened. They just can't compete with the introduced species.

Guys, we're suppose to be conservationists. If you want to play whack 'em and stack 'em, go play in Texas.

[avb3]

They have been stocking put and take trout waters for years maybe its about time to stock put and take with Bass as there is already natural trout waters why do we also need them in put and take some dy the old boys club has to wake up and realize there is more to fish then trout and people want to try them

You just don't get it do you?

You don't (and no one else does either) know what negative effects an introduced species will have on native ones.

Crested wheat was thought to be a wonderful solution to erosion. Now try and get rid of it in the prairie landscape.

Purple loose strife looked so pretty for gardens. Trouble is, it has horrible impacts on wetlands because it's only predator is a little insect that lives in Europe. And no, we don't want it here.

Look at the damage feral horses are doing in the eastern slopes (there are whole threads on that).

Introduced species have unintended consequences.

[horsetrader]

You just don't get it do you?

You don't (and no one else does either) know what negative effects an introduced species will have on native ones.

Crested wheat was thought to be a wonderful solution to erosion. Now try and get rid of it in the prairie landscape.

Purple loose strife looked so pretty for gardens. Trouble is, it has horrible impacts on wetlands because it's only predator is a little insect that lives in Europe. And no, we don't want it here.

Look at the damage feral horses are doing in the eastern slopes (there are whole threads on that).

Introduced species have unintended consequences.



So according to you only native species should be allowed in alberta that would cut down on the number of food that can be grown or raised in alberta it would cut down on the number of fish and animal species available here.
If you were to read my posts you would also see where i indicated that introducing Bass would be most effective and be best served as a put and take stock in ponds or it could go as a closed lake system.

[avb3]

So according to you only native species should be allowed in alberta

Yes.

Any fisheries or wildlife scientist will agree with me.

that would cut down on the number of food that can be grown or raised in alberta it would cut down on the number of fish and animal species available here.

Seeing we have twice the number of cattle as people already, I think we will be OK. Besides, for the most part, cattle replaced the buffalo in the prairie ecosystem.

If you were to read my posts you would also see where i indicated that introducing Bass would be most effective and be best served as a put and take stock in ponds or it could go as a closed lake system.

And you can *guarantee* there will be no escapement? Accidentally or on purpose? No eggs transmitted by birds? You can *guarantee* that?

[horsetrader]

Yes.

Any fisheries or wildlife scientist will agree with me.

I don't completely agree with that

Seeing we have twice the number of cattle as people already, I think we will be OK. Besides, for the most part, cattle replaced the buffalo in the prairie ecosystem.
Man can not survive on beef alone
And even if he could our domestic cattle come from europe

And you can *guarantee* there will be no escapement? Accidentally or on purpose? No eggs transmitted by birds? You can *guarantee* that?

There is no guarantee at anytime whether they introduced bass or not that there will not be a transfer of fish, eggs , accidentally or on purpose. Just as there is no guarantee of no transfer of any animal or plant at anytime. If you think there is a way to guarantee this then you do not live in the real world

[chubbdarter]

With the current state of many of our fisheries
Starving big headed sunken belly bull trout, eating whatever cutties are left.
Regs that MAKE us kill mature spawning fish
just for example

I dont have much faith in the whole fishery management system.....bios, scientists or the like.

No one can deny it has its risks, but without risk there is no glory. Example the Great Lakes salmon fishery.......the missouri breaks incredible fishery.....the Bow rivers huge success as a world class fishery and the enormous economic benifit its been.

We are a province with a additude to lead the country and many times the world....lets step up.

I believe the southern part of the province has the potential to rear Bass....warm chinooks may be enough.
If its a oxygen issue...well we already give trout ponds CPR

[horsetrader]

With the current state of many of our fisheries
Starving big headed sunken belly bull trout, eating whatever cutties are left.
Regs that MAKE us kill mature spawning fish
just for example

I dont have much faith in the whole fishery management system.....bios, scientists or the like.

No one can deny it has its risks, but without risk there is no glory. Example the Great Lakes salmon fishery.......the missouri breaks incredible fishery.....the Bow rivers huge success as a world class fishery and the enormous economic benifit its been.

We are a province with a additude to lead the country and many times the world....lets step up.

I believe the southern part of the province has the potential to rear Bass....warm chinooks may be enough.
If its a oxygen issue...well we already give trout ponds CPR



It is what can happen when people risk a little for the right cause.

if it was not for risk we would all be sitting in our caves afraid of fire sitting in front of our MacRock computers

[avb3]

Originally Posted by avb3

Any fisheries or wildlife scientist will agree with me.

I don't completely agree with that

Other then one retired F&W biologist (who retired over a decade ago), there is not ONE person who is a scientist with F&W, the ACA or the UofA that would want to see a non-indigenous introduced species purposely brought to Alberta. I don't know many at the UoC, but I can almost guarantee you they would feel the same.


There is no guarantee at anytime whether they introduced bass or not that there will not be a transfer of fish, eggs , accidentally or on purpose. Just as there is no guarantee of no transfer of any animal or plant at anytime. If you think there is a way to guarantee this then you do not live in the real world

Exactly. I know one can't guarantee escapement, so why would one want to play with fire? You and I don't know what negative effects introducing bass to Alberta may bring.

So why would we want to play with that?

If you think introduction of new species is a good idea, ask the Australians what they think of rabbits.

[chubbdarter]

Tell me how the introduction of Brown Trout to the Bow river is/was a bad thing......should it be reversed?

[horsetrader]

Other then one retired F&W biologist (who retired over a decade ago), there is not ONE person who is a scientist with F&W, the ACA or the UofA that would want to see a non-indigenous introduced species purposely brought to Alberta. I don't know many at the UoC, but I can almost guarantee you they would feel the same.

Im sorry but i don't think you have the right to speak for anyone but your self


Exactly. I know one can't guarantee escapement, so why would one want to play with fire? You and I don't know what negative effects introducing bass to Alberta may bring.

So why would we want to play with that?

If you think introduction of new species is a good idea, ask the Australians what they think of rabbits.


If you had read my statement it was NO ONE can guarantee that even at this time with no Bass so it is a moot point

[avb3]

Tell me how the introduction of Brown Trout to the Bow river is/was a bad thing......should it be reversed?

Tell me how many bull trout exist in the Bow now?

Yes, it's a great fishery, but it had a huge negative impact on the indigenous fish. As did the brown trout, which cause some hybridization of the Bull Trout.

Imagine what a great fishery on bull trout and perhaps western cutthroat we could have had if these introduce species were not there?

[mikeo2]

Tell me how many bull trout exist in the Bow now?

Yes, it's a great fishery, but it had a huge negative impact on the indigenous fish. As did the brown trout, which cause some hybridization of the Bull Trout.

Imagine what a great fishery on bull trout and perhaps western cutthroat we could have had if these introduce species were not there?

So you're saying brown trout and bull trout breed and create what? Is this where sturgeon come from? :thinking-006:

[chubbdarter]

Tell me how many bull trout exist in the Bow now?

Yes, it's a great fishery, but it had a huge negative impact on the indigenous fish. As did the brown trout, which cause some hybridization of the Bull Trout.

Imagine what a great fishery on bull trout and perhaps western cutthroat we could have had if these introduce species were not there?

The Brown trout is a species with high tolerences to pollution unlike many trout species.

Now your trying to turn back time and ask 1million people to leave Calgary to get back the Bow to spring creek water qualities to allow cutties and bulliesto exsit

With a magic wand you can elimiate the Browns and stock BILLIONS of cutties and bullies into the Bow.......i'd be intrested to hear what scientist will say that would be success.....without deporting the million people from Cowtown.

We differ of opinion......whether by luck or the grace of God the introduction of a non native species like the Brown to the Bow has been a tremendous success........without them we would have a much lesser fishery.

[avb3]

So you're saying brown trout and bull trout breed and create what? Is this where sturgeon come from? :thinking-006:

You know, anything I have posted is fact, and not speculation.

If you view yourself as having a conservation ethic, it may help to listen and learn.

This link is not from Alberta, but Montana (http://www.montanatrout.org/hybrid.html). We have exactly the same situation here.

Read, learn, and try to understand that introduction of non-indigenous species do have negative consequences.

We made mistakes in the past. Most we can't reverse.

So be it.

Does that mean we should knowingly make similar mistakes again?

That's like saying, "Hey, let's give pregnant women Thalomide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide) because it can cure morning sickness!

We know better now in both cases.

[horsetrader]

You know, anything I have posted is fact, and not speculation.

If you view yourself as having a conservation ethic, it may help to listen and learn.

This link is not from Alberta, but Montana (http://www.montanatrout.org/hybrid.html). We have exactly the same situation here.

Read, learn, and try to understand that introduction of non-indigenous species do have negative consequences.

We made mistakes in the past. Most we can't reverse.

So be it.

Does that mean we should knowingly make similar mistakes again?

That's like saying, "Hey, let's give pregnant women Thalomide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide) because it can cure morning sickness!

We know better now in both cases.

Well if we in fact have the situation as Montana as you say then we have nothing to worry about because as your link shows there is NO hybrid linked between a brown trout and a bull trout.A brown trout spawns in the fall and a bull spawns in the summer.

Not only but Montana is a member of the Bass Federation they have a fantastic small mouth and large mouth population but still have a great trout fishery.So I guess that means were good to go thanks for all your help

[xtreme hunter10]

Yes.

Any fisheries or wildlife scientist will agree with me.



Seeing we have twice the number of cattle as people already, I think we will be OK. Besides, for the most part, cattle replaced the buffalo in the prairie ecosystem.



And you can *guarantee* there will be no escapement? Accidentally or on purpose? No eggs transmitted by birds? You can *guarantee* that?

Here are the facts... there are only a few native fish found in alberta. rest were introduced. athabasca rainbow, bull trout and lake sturgeon. I am not sure about northern pike. so, if you you wanted to go fishing those would be your choices. kinda seems boring. Im glad they have the different species they do.

[huntsfurfish]

yup we have very limited amounts of water bodies in Alberta so lets introduce more species so we can divide it up further.

maybe it works out maybe it doesnt. I dont think its worth the risk. Dont have to travel that far to get to them anyway. And it makes for a nice trip!

PS - I like fishing for them also!

[huntsfurfish]

They have been stocking put and take trout waters for years maybe its about time to stock put and take with Bass as there is already natural trout waters why do we also need them in put and take some dy the old boys club has to wake up and realize there is more to fish then trout and people want to try them

You really dont get it.

What they did by importing species in the 1920's or there abouts does NOT justify what they have learned since then! (and if they didnt stock them back then, they likely would'nt start now either)

horse you can always go back to Ontario.:)

to fish

PS horstrader if you dont like what I have to say put me on ignore!

[horsetrader]

You really dont get it.

What they did by importing species in the 1920's or there abouts does NOT justify what they have learned since then! (and if they didnt stock them back then, they likely would'nt start now either)

At that time they introduced them as a self sustained species now we would be looking at them as a put and take program.




horse you can always go back to Ontario.:)

to fish

No I can't not allowed back there :)



PS horstrader if you dont like what I have to say put me on ignore!

NO I don't put people on ignore this is an information forum If I can't except what people will post then I should not respond in the first place

[Jorg]

I'm curious does anyone have a link to any studies done by Alberta biologists that explain any real risks that introduced Bass may cause in Alberta waters ?

[horsetrader]

yup we have very limited amounts of water bodies in Alberta so lets introduce more species so we can divide it up further.

maybe it works out maybe it doesnt. I dont think its worth the risk. Dont have to travel that far to get to them anyway. And it makes for a nice trip!

PS - I like fishing for them also!

The idea would be to take a put and take water and change it from one put and take species to another. The amount of fishable waters dose not change the amount of fish that are available dose not change. The only thing that changes is you have a new species to fish.

[avb3]

Here are the facts... there are only a few native fish found in alberta. rest were introduced. athabasca rainbow, bull trout and lake sturgeon. I am not sure about northern pike. so, if you you wanted to go fishing those would be your choices. kinda seems boring. Im glad they have the different species they do.

Pike , walleye, perch, western cutthroat are all indigenous, as well as the 3 you mentioned.

I've fished in Ontario, and I was amazed at the variety of indigenous fish they have there. Anyone coming from there is spoiled and I am jealous of the quality you have.

That still does not justify introducing new and competing species to Alberta ecosystems.

[mikeo2]

You know, anything I have posted is fact, and not speculation.

If you view yourself as having a conservation ethic, it may help to listen and learn.

This link is not from Alberta, but Montana (http://www.montanatrout.org/hybrid.html). We have exactly the same situation here.

Read, learn, and try to understand that introduction of non-indigenous species do have negative consequences.

We made mistakes in the past. Most we can't reverse.

So be it.

Does that mean we should knowingly make similar mistakes again?

That's like saying, "Hey, let's give pregnant women Thalomide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide) because it can cure morning sickness!

We know better now in both cases.

You havent showed me what or if a bull trout and brown trout can hybridize, the link you provided shows the only thing crossing with a brown is a brook trout which creates a tiger trout....

[avb3]

You havent showed me what or if a bull trout and brown trout can hybridize, the link you provided shows the only thing crossing with a brown is a brook trout which creates a tiger trout....

Your right, I meant brook, not brown on the hybridization. Fat fingers you know :)

Brown do however, compete for habitat. Other then having a world class fishery (which is a human benefit), I am not aware of any ecological benefit an introduced species like browns have created.

Do you?

[greylynx]

I'm curious does anyone have a link to any studies done by Alberta biologists that explain any real risks that introduced Bass may cause in Alberta waters ?

You will have to request documents and studies under the FOI rules from SRD.

Some documents are confidential.

[avb3]

I'm curious does anyone have a link to any studies done by Alberta biologists that explain any real risks that introduced Bass may cause in Alberta waters ?

It is not just the issue of Bass; it is an issue of ANY introduced species.

We just don't know what the consequences are.

Why would you want to experiment with that?

Look the facts are that in many cases where there were introduced species, they have unintended consequences. Sometimes to the detriment of indigenous species.

Why are we so bent to insist on this experimentation?

Why not concentrate on what we have, and insure that the habitat is protected or enhanced, and work towards its well being?

In the end, it benefits all, including us anglers.

[greylynx]

Bass stockings have failed to succeed in Alberta, and yet there are calls to stock the fish.

Why don't you fish experts take a course in Limnology, and then we can argue.

[pickrel pat]

Here are the facts... there are only a few native fish found in alberta. rest were introduced. athabasca rainbow, bull trout and lake sturgeon. I am not sure about northern pike. so, if you you wanted to go fishing those would be your choices. kinda seems boring. Im glad they have the different species they do.

lol.... funniest post of the year son. those are the facts........ lol.

[horsetrader]

It is not just the issue of Bass; it is an issue of ANY introduced species.

We just don't know what the consequences are.

Why would you want to experiment with that?

Look the facts are that in many cases where there were introduced species, they have unintended consequences. Sometimes to the detriment of indigenous species.

Why are we so bent to insist on this experimentation?

Why not concentrate on what we have, and insure that the habitat is protected or enhanced, and work towards its well being?

In the end, it benefits all, including us anglers.

It is a good thing that not all people in the world do not have your mind set.
If we always had to know the consequences of an action before we tried something we would be still living in the dark ages. No one will ever know what the total outcome of a situation will be but that does not mean we just stop. All we can do is keep the risks to a minimum.

[horsetrader]

Bass stockings have failed to succeed in Alberta, and yet there are calls to stock the fish.

Why don't you fish experts take a course in Limnology, and then we can argue.

If you say that Bass stocking failed in Alberta then you must believe that Bow stocking in alberta also failed

[avb3]

It is a good thing that not all people in the world do not have your mind set.
If we always had to know the consequences of an action before we tried something we would be still living in the dark ages. No one will ever know what the total outcome of a situation will be but that does not mean we just stop. All we can do is keep the risks to a minimum.

Horsetrade, you and I obviously have a different value set when it comes to conservation.

Science backs me, opinion backs you.

Let's leave it at that, because I am sure you are as set in your point of view as I am in mine.

I'm just glad that the decision makers listen to conservation science first.

[horsetrader]

Horsetrade, you and I obviously have a different value set when it comes to conservation.

Science backs me, opinion backs you.

Let's leave it at that, because I am sure you are as set in your point of view as I am in mine.

I'm just glad that the decision makers listen to conservation science first.

You say science backs you but you have failed to produce any facts of it.
And when you consider the number of species that have been introduced and some of the problems occurred I would thing the decision makers listened to people like me and for our sake it's a good thing. But you are entitled to your OPINION.

[pickrel pat]

i agree 100% when it comes to bass stocking in alberta.

[avb3]

You say science backs you but you have failed to produce any facts of it.
And when you consider the number of species that have been introduced and some of the problems occurred I would thing the decision makers listened to people like me and for our sake it's a good thing. But you are entitled to your OPINION.

Horstrader, I have been at the table when the decisions are made for more years than I can count... I can guarantee you that science is the first consideration.

[pickrel pat]

horstrader, i have been at the table when the decisions are made for more years than i can count... I can guarantee you that science is the first consideration.

bam!!!!!

[ORV]

i agree 100% when it comes to bass stocking in alberta.

x10

orv.

[mikeo2]

i agree 100% when it comes to bass stocking in alberta.

Agree with who? Whoever gets their way?

[sheephunter]

If you say that Bass stocking failed in Alberta then you must believe that Bow stocking in alberta also failed

:confused::confused::confused:

[horsetrader]

:confused::confused::confused:

The only reason i say that. Is Bass never survived as a self supported species.

and because of the fact they have to restock Bow every year it to was not a self supported species

[0liver]

Honestly, Bass stocking would end up being mediocre at best...

Stocking Bow's has ended up being mediocre at best, and I think that we should take the millions spent in stocking ANY fish and put it into revamping Alberta's healthcare / education system... something we can actually gain from? Worse comes to worse just take the money and use it to revamp some of our successful walleye&pike lakes that are now failing so that they can have a better chance at spawning.. add some rip rap on shores, some rocks and such to the bottom of the lakes to allow for a better spawn.. etc etc

my 2 cents.
Oliver

[horsetrader]

Horstrader, I have been at the table when the decisions are made for more years than I can count... I can guarantee you that science is the first consideration.

I'm sure if you were at the table as you say you would be able to produce some information other than something on the internet from Montana which was suppose to prove the hybridize, of Browns and Bulls and showed nothing.

You keep referring to all these scientific people that think the same way you do but still no proof is given.

[yada]

Honestly, Bass stocking would end up being mediocre at best...

Stocking Bow's has ended up being mediocre at best, and I think that we should take the millions spent in stocking ANY fish and put it into revamping Alberta's healthcare / education system... something we can actually gain from? Worse comes to worse just take the money and use it to revamp some of our successful walleye&pike lakes that are now failing so that they can have a better chance at spawning.. add some rip rap on shores, some rocks and such to the bottom of the lakes to allow for a better spawn.. etc etc

my 2 cents.
Oliver

I totally agree!

[avb3]

I'm sure if you were at the table as you say you would be able to produce some information other than something on the internet from Montana which was suppose to prove the hybridize, of Browns and Bulls and showed nothing.

You keep referring to all these scientific people that think the same way you do but still no proof is given.

Horsetrader, please read page 23 of the Status of Bull Trout report (http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/SpeciesAtRisk/DetailedStatus/documents/StatusOfTheBullTroutInAlberta39b-sep-2009.pdf).

The sub-title is: "Limiting Factors" and then "Fish Species Introduction".

If you really want to get educated about Bull Trout, read all 61 pages.

If that is not enough of an education for you, I'll gladly provide more :sign0176:

[sheephunter]

The only reason i say that. Is Bass never survived as a self supported species.

and because of the fact they have to restock Bow every year it to was not a self supported species

While that may seem to make sense on the surface, I think you have to look a little deeper. There is no evidence of bass ever spawning in Alberta...the same can't be said about rainbows. I think you need to look at the causes of mortality and the spawning success for each species to get a bit more complete picture before making that comparison. Some of our southern reservoirs may be able to support a smallmouth population but I doubt there is a lake in Alberta suitable for largemouth.

[mszomola]

I would be perfectly fine if someone put some smallmouth in Windermere . Then I'd be set , it would go with awesome largemouth fishery there and clear up all the sqauwfish

[greylynx]

If you say that Bass stocking failed in Alberta then you must believe that Bow stocking in alberta also failed

As a matter of fact when the Bow was more oligotrophic, the trout population and size was quite small. When my uncle was training at Curry Barracks during WW2, he used to fish pools in the Bow with hand grenades. The fish were always few and small.

As the Bow turned into a eutrophic river in a very short period of time the fish population blossomed.

As the Bow turns more eutrophic over the coming years, you will see the trout go away and the pike and walleye being primary feeders.

In fact you can see the eutrophication of the Bow quite well beyond Carseland.

[Jorg]

Horsetrader, please read page 23 of the Status of Bull Trout report (http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/SpeciesAtRisk/DetailedStatus/documents/StatusOfTheBullTroutInAlberta39b-sep-2009.pdf).

The sub-title is: "Limiting Factors" and then "Fish Species Introduction".

If you really want to get educated about Bull Trout, read all 61 pages.

If that is not enough of an education for you, I'll gladly provide more :sign0176:

I'm not sure what Bull troat have to do with Bass they thrive in different habitats

[Jorg]

You will have to request documents and studies under the FOI rules from SRD.

Some documents are confidential.

I'll take that as a no.

[Jorg]

It is not just the issue of Bass; it is an issue of ANY introduced species.

We just don't know what the consequences are.

Why would you want to experiment with that?

Look the facts are that in many cases where there were introduced species, they have unintended consequences. Sometimes to the detriment of indigenous species.

Why are we so bent to insist on this experimentation?

Why not concentrate on what we have, and insure that the habitat is protected or enhanced, and work towards its well being?

In the end, it benefits all, including us anglers.

That sounds like a no also.

[avb3]

I'm not sure what Bull troat have to do with Bass they thrive in different habitats

Have you read the whole thread?

The point has been made many time by myself and others, we *don't* know what the unintended consequences are of non-native plant, animal or fish introductions. That includes closed water bodies, because somehow fish that aren't suppose to be there always seem to find a way of doing so.

Heck, right here in my home town we have a trout pond with no egress or ingress.

How did that 8 lb pike get in there that was caught 2 years ago? Fat, sassy and decimating the stock trout.

So don't tell me anyone can guarantee that any introduced species can be controlled... they cant'

Besides, why spend money on a non-native fish when we have so many of our native fish that can use the help?

[avb3]

In fact you can see the eutrophication of the Bow quite well beyond Carseland.

No doubt assisted by nutrients caused by runoff from fertilization and livestock production.

The City of Calgary itself actually does a very good job on handling their sewage. I recall doing a field trip on the Bow, and the egress from the sewage plant had visibly less suspended material in it then the rest of the river.

Didn't smell either.

[Jorg]

Have you read the whole thread?

The point has been made many time by myself and others, we *don't* know what the unintended consequences are of non-native plant, animal or fish introductions. That includes closed water bodies, because somehow fish that aren't suppose to be there always seem to find a way of doing so.

Heck, right here in my home town we have a trout pond with no egress or ingress.

How did that 8 lb pike get in there that was caught 2 years ago? Fat, sassy and decimating the stock trout.

So don't tell me anyone can guarantee that any introduced species can be controlled... they cant'

Besides, why spend money on a non-native fish when we have so many of our native fish that can use the help?

I hear you but you only talk about the possible negatives --- what about the positives of introduced species as with Browns,Rainbows, Pheasants,Huns etc.
nobody is complaining about them.

[HunterDave]

When my uncle was training at Curry Barracks during WW2, he used to fish pools in the Bow with hand grenades. The fish were always few and small.

GRENADES do tend to make the fish smaller for sure. :scared0018:

[greylynx]

I'll take that as a no.

If you have a specific search subject, I don't think it will be too hard.

[horsetrader]

Have you read the whole thread?

The point has been made many time by myself and others, we *don't* know what the unintended consequences are of non-native plant, animal or fish introductions. That includes closed water bodies, because somehow fish that aren't suppose to be there always seem to find a way of doing so.

Heck, right here in my home town we have a trout pond with no egress or ingress.

How did that 8 lb pike get in there that was caught 2 years ago? Fat, sassy and decimating the stock trout.

So don't tell me anyone can guarantee that any introduced species can be controlled... they cant'

Besides, why spend money on a non-native fish when we have so many of our native fish that can use the help?

You keep saying that we can not guarantee that an introduced species can't get into other waters. Well you can't guaranteed that that species can't get in to the water at anytime. so that statement is moot and is no reason to stop introducing fish.

[avb3]

I hear you but you only talk about the possible negatives --- what about the positives of introduced species as with Browns,Rainbows, Pheasants,Huns etc.
nobody is complaining about them.

Rainbows have had a direct negative effect on western cutthroat trout and likely the Athabasca rainbow trout, which is the only indigenous rainbow trout in Alberta.

I'm not aware of any negatives of Huns - we got lucky.

Although Pheasant hunting is a very popular activity by some Albertan's, if you look at the amount of money that has been spent on this bird, which essentially is a put and take as very few survive our winters, and then think of all the areas of native fish and animals that need money spent on them, which would you rather see? Pheasants or moose? Or sheep? Or get our goats back so we can hunt them? Or the Grizzly bear?

Why spend money on an non-native animal, when so many of our native ones need help, even if there appear to be no negative impacts.

Unless, of course, somehow we find that pot of gold at the end of some rainbow, after we fulfill societies other demands for healthcare, education, roads.... you know... the stuff that makes our world go round.

My vote goes to native species.

[sheephunter]

I hear you but you only talk about the possible negatives --- what about the positives of introduced species as with Browns,Rainbows, Pheasants,Huns etc.
nobody is complaining about them.

Hybridization between birds is rare so not really a fair comparison and raibows have had some serious impacts on our cuthroats. Browns, the jury is still out. I see you forgot to mention brookies ;)

Lots of stuff has been done in the past that will never be done again in the future. No matter how well-intentioned, two wrongs will never make a right!

[horsetrader]

While that may seem to make sense on the surface, I think you have to look a little deeper. There is no evidence of bass ever spawning in Alberta...the same can't be said about rainbows. I think you need to look at the causes of mortality and the spawning success for each species to get a bit more complete picture before making that comparison. Some of our southern reservoirs may be able to support a smallmouth population but I doubt there is a lake in Alberta suitable for largemouth.

99% of the waters bows are stock in are not suitable for spawning the % of natural spawned fish is not sufficient to self sustain the species. If the same stocking program was affixed to bass that the trout had there could be a nice bass fishery in alberta at this time

[chubbdarter]

No doubt assisted by nutrients caused by runoff from fertilization and livestock production.

The City of Calgary itself actually does a very good job on handling their sewage. I recall doing a field trip on the Bow, and the egress from the sewage plant had visibly less suspended material in it then the rest of the river.

Didn't smell either.


hahahhahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahah.....you best use your nose instead of some scientific go go gadget meter.

You may be some smart self proclaimed scientist/ expert/ alberta decision maker on the board of experts/ and sportsman against the intro and expansion of fish species.............BUT I live on the BOW , which doesnt make me a expert or a person backed by scientific data. It makes me a street smart angler of the Bow for over 40 years......and after countless non scientific tests here is the results of my extensive experiment.

1....The Bow smells like crap below the poop pipe
2....Brown Trout and Boneless Browns make the river a World Class fishery

[horsetrader]

Rainbows have had a direct negative effect on western cutthroat trout and likely the Athabasca rainbow trout, which is the only indigenous rainbow trout in Alberta.

I'm not aware of any negatives of Huns - we got lucky.

Although Pheasant hunting is a very popular activity by some Albertan's, if you look at the amount of money that has been spent on this bird, which essentially is a put and take as very few survive our winters, and then think of all the areas of native fish and animals that need money spent on them, which would you rather see? Pheasants or moose? Or sheep? Or get our goats back so we can hunt them? Or the Grizzly bear?

Why spend money on an non-native animal, when so many of our native ones need help, even if there appear to be no negative impacts.

Unless, of course, somehow we find that pot of gold at the end of some rainbow, after we fulfill societies other demands for healthcare, education, roads.... you know... the stuff that makes our world go round.

My vote goes to native species.

Who says you can't hunt goats in Alberta

[Jorg]

Hybridization between birds is rare so not really a fair comparison and raibows have had some serious impacts on our cuthroats. Browns, the jury is still out. I see you forgot to mention brookies ;)

Lots of stuff has been done in the past that will never be done again in the future. No matter how well-intentioned, two wrongs will never make a right!

I didn't forget to mention brookies. I understand there are risks involved with introducing new species one only needs to look at the disaster that occured in lake Victoria and the ongoing threat of the Asian carp getting into the great lakes. I think Bass are not in that catorgory as they already coexist with our same native species in other parts of Canada. Most if not all of the sutible habits for Bass in southern Alberta are man made water storage containers for irrigation purposes not natural occuring bodies of water.

[sheephunter]

99% of the waters bows are stock in are not suitable for spawning the % of natural spawned fish is not sufficient to self sustain the species. If the same stocking program was affixed to bass that the trout had there could be a nice bass fishery in alberta at this time

I doubt bass could survive in many of the waters rainbows are stocked in. I guess you could make an expensive put and take fishery for bass in parts of the province but I don't really see the point.

[sheephunter]

Most if not all of the sutible habits for Bass in southern Alberta are man made water storage containers for irrigation purposes not natural occuring bodies of water.

But most are connected and offer access to natural occuring bodies of water.

[chubbdarter]

But most are connected and offer access to natural occuring bodies of water.

Hardly a concern if you truely beleive Bass cant survive

[Jorg]

But most are connected and offer access to natural occuring bodies of water.

OK here is a question sorry to derail but is there any excess water from irrigation and how do they handle it ? Back on track thou I think the only real risk would be of the Bass getting into the south Sask drainage but I don't think there is sutible habitat in that drainage to support a Bass population not until Lake Diefenbaker anyhow.

[sheephunter]

Hardly a concern if you truely beleive Bass cant survive

I never said they couldn't survive in some waters. In fact it's already been proven that they can survive...just not reproduce.

[avb3]

Who says you can't hunt goats in Alberta

How long do you think it will be until you can get drawn for one?

[mikeo2]

How long do you think it will be until you can get drawn for one?

Doesn't matter, the fact is you can hunt them in Alberta, in fact I had one of the tags 3 years ago but was unsuccessful due to a broken foot.

[chubbdarter]

I never said they couldn't survive in some waters. In fact it's already been proven that they can survive...just not reproduce.

so its a concern if we stock a lake and 12 escape?
Its been mentioned that a Brown and Bull cross might occur.....hmm because the brown is a invasive species..lol
What possible harm comes from a fish that cant do the the fish funky

[horsetrader]

How long do you think it will be until you can get drawn for one?



Or get our goats back so we can hunt them

This is your statement not that you have to draw.

you are like most people who argue a lost point you will not state the full facts

just like you were saying the demise of the bull trout was from the introduction of non native fish you did not mention the decline was from 1 migratory barriers, 2 habitat degradation and fragmentation, 3 angling pressure and past population management.

[sheephunter]

so its a concern if we stock a lake and 12 escape?
Its been mentioned that a Brown and Bull cross might occur.....hmm because the brown is a invasive species..lol
What possible harm comes from a fish that cant do the the fish funky

Ummm, they could eat a whole lot of fish that can do the funky and they could become a real competitor for forage. Bass are voracious eaters.

[mikeo2]

Ummm, they could eat a whole lot of fish that can do the funky and they could become a real competitor for forage. Bass are voracious eaters.

Cattle are huge competitors with native ungulates for food and voracious eaters, does that mean cattle are bad and we need to get rid of them and tear down all the fences in Alberta and re-introduce bison everywhere?

[sheephunter]

Cattle are huge competitors with native ungulates for food and voracious eaters, does that mean cattle are bad and we need to get rid of them and tear down all the fences in Alberta and re-introduce bison everywhere?

Huh? :confused::confused::confused:

That doesn't even make sense. If you are trying to say that two wrongs make a right...sorry, they don't.

[horsetrader]

I doubt bass could survive in many of the waters rainbows are stocked in. I guess you could make an expensive put and take fishery for bass in parts of the province but I don't really see the point.

they have made that same expensive put and take fishery for trout for years

[sheephunter]

they have made that same expensive put and take fishery for trout for years

Yup, so why do it with bass when it already exists with trout?

[chubbdarter]

Ummm, they could eat a whole lot of fish that can do the funky and they could become a real competitor for forage. Bass are voracious eaters.

well then those 12 fish....will be highly prized as a sport fish.

We currently use a rock/sand strain in canals that come from irrigation res. to fill trout ponds....to prevent pike migration.
This can be used to prevent Bass migration...Bass need a big void to escape .

[horsetrader]

Ummm, they could eat a whole lot of fish that can do the funky and they could become a real competitor for forage. Bass are voracious eaters.

So are pike and there is no guarantee as stated by AVB3 that any species can invade other waters

[sheephunter]

well then those 12 fish....will be highly prized as a sport fish.

We currently use a rock/sand strain in canals that come from irrigation res. to fill trout ponds....to prevent pike migration.
This can be used to prevent Bass migration...Bass need a big void to escape .

And how did you come up with the number 12?

If bass got into the South Sask, they could get into the Oldman, the Bow, well you get the picture.

[sheephunter]

So are pike and there is no guarantee as stated by AVB3 that any species can invade other waters

But we already have pike...we don't have bass.

[horsetrader]

Yup, so why do it with bass when it already exists with trout?

Why not cut down on the amount of trout restocked each year and introduce a new fishery HOW MANY TROUT DO PEOPLE NEED

[sheephunter]

Why not cut down on the amount of trout restocked each year and introduce a new fishery HOW MANY TROUT DO PEOPLE NEED

How many bass to people need. Do we really need to put our waters at risk and incur huge expenses to create another put and take fishery?

Don't get me wrong, I love fishing for bass but with the limited budget our department operates on and the risk an introduction comes with, I just don't see stocking bass as a responsible move when it's nothing more than a put and take fishery at best. I love fishing for musky and stripers too but I don't see the point of introducing them either.

[horsetrader]

But we already have pike...we don't have bass.

You were talking about the bass getting in trout waters do you have pike in trout waters

[sheephunter]

You were talking about the bass getting in trout waters do you have pike in trout waters

Yup, so why add another competitor/predator that's not even native to Alberta or is this a case of two wrongs making a right?

[chubbdarter]

And how did you come up with the number 12?

If bass got into the South Sask, they could get into the Oldman, the Bow, well you get the picture.

i pulled the number 12 out of my scientific data......i figured if everyone is making up chit...i could too.

How many are you saying are gonna escape? Past the sand trap.

Most irrgigation by pass water doesnt empty into the SSR....but either way if the Super Bass did find its way into the Oldman...its journey ends at the very least in cowley....any Bow river super bass ends its journey in Bassano....at least then the Bass cant have sex with a bulltrout and make BullAss fishes.
Im sorry i still fail to see how a fish that cant breed and relies on its population thru escapement into a huge water way can become a issue.

[horsetrader]

How many bass to people need. Do we really need to put our waters at risk and incur huge expenses to create another put and take fishery?

Don't get me wrong, I love fishing for bass but with the limited budget our department operates on and the risk an introduction comes with, I just don't see stocking bass as a responsible move when it's nothing more than a put and take fishery at best. I love fishing for musky and stripers too but I don't see the point of introducing them either.

But if you remove some trout stocking and introduce bass there is no greater expense it would would be a trade off not an addition.

[sheephunter]

i pulled the number 12 out of my scientific data......i figured if everyone is making up chit...i could too.

How many are you saying are gonna escape? Past the sand trap.

Most irrgigation by pass water doesnt empty into the SSR....but either way if the Super Bass did find its way into the Oldman...its journey ends at the very least in cowley....any Bow river super bass ends its journey in Bassano....at least then the Bass cant have sex with a bulltrout and make BullAss fishes.
Im sorry i still fail to see how a fish that cant breed and relies on its population thru escapement into a huge water way can become a issue.

So say you are right. What is the point of incuring huge expenses to create a marginal put and take fishery?

[sheephunter]

But if you remove some trout stocking and introduce bass there is no greater expense it would would be a trade off not an addition.

Other than the huge costs of creating a new hatchery or importing fish from the U.S.

[horsetrader]

Yup, so why add another competitor/predator that's not even native to Alberta or is this a case of two wrongs making a right?

don't think of it as a competitor its pike food

[chubbdarter]

So say you are right. What is the point of incuring huge expenses to create a marginal put and take fishery?

okay..suppliment the expense with licence fees....you play you PAY.

No one knows it will be marginal......if scientists had all the answers why did Island lake fail? Why did they try it?
Is it possible a southern res may work?
Can a Bass fishery be a economic bonus like the Bow.
Ask the fishinggeeks what happened when the nets broke in saskabush.

im sorry but so called scientist and fishery people backed by scientists are not running on a good track record with current fishery decisions........

[horsetrader]

Other than the huge costs of creating a new hatchery or importing fish from the U.S.

Where is the huge cost of a new hatchery one hatchery can handle more then one breed of fish

[Jorg]

Now I have to go through my stack of magazines to find an article written about how Alberta needs to keep up with changes in our enviroment before it's to late It mentioned introducing new fish species I recall --- any one remember who wrote it ?

[avb3]

Cattle are huge competitors with native ungulates for food and voracious eaters, does that mean cattle are bad and we need to get rid of them and tear down all the fences in Alberta and re-introduce bison everywhere?

Most of our ungulates are browsers, not grazers.

[Overdrawn]

Why not cut down on the amount of trout restocked each year and introduce a new fishery HOW MANY TROUT DO PEOPLE NEED

2X I seen an awsome Pike and Perch Fishery blue stoned and drained to kill off the Pike and Perch, (I seen Pike up to 25lbs and 1.5lb Perch come out of the Dam) to reintroduce Trout so some coffin dodger can sit on shore with his Pickrel rig and Cheese balls to catch a muddy tasting, nonrenewable resource. And the same year they filled it back up they found that the Perch and Pike surrvived. That dam leads to no where and would be perfect to give Bass a try.
I love fly fishing but can't justify the money wasted on the put and take ponds. Keep some of them yes but most of them let them go. Nobody even fishes 3/4 of the ones I know about because there boring.

[horsetrader]

Now I have to go through my stack of magazines to find an article written about how Alberta needs to keep up with changes in our enviroment before it's to late It mentioned introducing new fish species I recall --- any one remember who wrote it ?

don't recall who but do remember seeing article don't know which mag

[avb3]

oka.if scientists had all the answers why did Island lake fail? Why did they try it

Scientists are the last people who say they have all the answers. They also use the precautionary principle when making recommendations to avoid the mistake of unintended consequences.

It is just bad fish and game management to introduce non-native species into an ecosystem.

There are some neutral examples (huns as example), many, many examples where things went horribly wrong and no one can show any long term good examples of where an introduced species, plant or animal, has enhanced an ecosystem.

As that is a given, why play with fire if one doesn't have to.

[Jorg]

don't recall who but do remember seeing article don't know which mag

It was either AO or WS and it was written by one of the posters on this thread if I recall right ---it's gonna take a bit to find it I think lol

[sheephunter]

It was either AO or WS and it was written by one of the posters on this thread if I recall right ---it's gonna take a bit to find it I think lol

Likely a good idea if you do reread it...lol

[Jorg]

Scientists are the last people who say they have all the answers. They also use the precautionary principle when making recommendations to avoid the mistake of unintended consequences.

It is just bad fish and game management to introduce non-native species into an ecosystem.

There are some neutral examples (huns as example), many, many examples where things went horribly wrong and no one can show any long term good examples of where an introduced species, plant or animal, has enhanced an ecosystem.

As that is a given, why play with fire if one doesn't have to.

Fire can be good sometimes it is not always bad

[sheephunter]

Where is the huge cost of a new hatchery one hatchery can handle more then one breed of fish

Are you sure our hatcheries are capable of doing that?

[sheephunter]

okay..suppliment the expense with licence fees....you play you PAY.

No one knows it will be marginal......if scientists had all the answers why did Island lake fail? Why did they try it?
Is it possible a southern res may work?
Can a Bass fishery be a economic bonus like the Bow.
Ask the fishinggeeks what happened when the nets broke in saskabush.

im sorry but so called scientist and fishery people backed by scientists are not running on a good track record with current fishery decisions........

Not sure I'd call a couple guys doing some occasional guiding a economic bonus. Well for the two of them I guess it is....lol

[horsetrader]

Are you sure our hatcheries are capable of doing that?

Im sure if they are cutting down on the numbers of trout here should be ponds open for bass.



PS it wasn't you who wrote that article was it ....lol

[greylynx]

What would you guys say about stocking Chinook Salmon in Lesser Slave Lake?

Anyone ever heard of this idea?

[sheephunter]

Im sure if they are cutting down on the numbers of trout here should be ponds open for bass.



PS it wasn't you who wrote that article was it ....lol

A bit more to rearing fish than that from my understanding. I doubt it would be that simple.

I did write a similar article but not that one....lol

[chubbdarter]

Not sure I'd call a couple guys doing some occasional guiding a economic bonus. Well for the two of them I guess it is....lol

i hope that number isnt scientifc...lol
Im sure the Bow river has huge economic benifits...im not sure of numbers but between hotels, food, air, tackle and so forth its substanial.

Why because a so called BAD fish lives in the Bow River

[sheephunter]

i hope that number isnt scientifc...lol
Im sure the Bow river has huge economic benifits...im not sure of numbers but between hotels, food, air, tackle and so forth its substanial.

Why because a so called BAD fish lives in the Bow River

I was speaking to your comment about The Fishing Geeks.

I doubt you'd see a marginal smallmouth fishery attract much economic boom. The folks on Vancouver Island aren't getting rich and that is a world-class smallmouth fishery.

[Jorg]

There has been a lot of threads and posts on this subject but I can't remember one post showing any proof that Bass will have a bad impact on any native species.

[Donkey Oatey]

There has been a lot of threads and posts on this subject but I can't remember one post showing any proof that Bass will have a bad impact on any native species.

There have been a lot of threads and posts on this subject but I can't remember one post showing any proof that bass will have a positive impact on any native species.

[sheephunter]

There has been a lot of threads and posts on this subject but I can't remember one post showing any proof that Bass will have a bad impact on any native species.

Pretty hard to prove a negative until after the fact.

[chubbdarter]

I was speaking to your comment about The Fishing Geeks.

I doubt you'd see a marginal smallmouth fishery attract much economic boom. The folks on Vancouver Island aren't getting rich and that is a world-class smallmouth fishery.

well i didnt mean they are getting rich......i meant much is too be learned about that situation and what happened at CVR.

it tough to compete with a salmon area.....but the cowichan browns do recieve some attention.

[Jorg]

A bit more to rearing fish than that from my understanding. I doubt it would be that simple.

I did write a similar article but not that one....lol

My memory might be foggy but I was sure you wrote the article I will have to find it -- I might be foggy on the contents as well. Do you remember the date and make of the magazine?

[sheephunter]

well i didnt mean they are getting rich......i meant much is too be learned about that situation and what happened at CVR.

it tough to compete with a salmon area.....but the cowichan browns do recieve some attention.

If smallmouth are that popular, you'd think Vancouver Island would be overrun. Last few times I've been out there I haven't run into a single bass fisherman...lots of guys fishing for trout but not bass.

[horsetrader]

Scientists are the last people who say they have all the answers. They also use the precautionary principle when making recommendations to avoid the mistake of unintended consequences.

It is just bad fish and game management to introduce non-native species into an ecosystem.

There are some neutral examples (huns as example), many, many examples where things went horribly wrong and no one can show any long term good examples of where an introduced species, plant or animal, has enhanced an ecosystem.

As that is a given, why play with fire if one doesn't have to.



Just because you say it is a given does NOT make it true

[sheephunter]

My memory might be foggy but I was sure you wrote the article I will have to find it -- I might be foggy on the contents as well. Do you remember the date and make of the magazine?

It was several years ago for AO....sorry but I can't remember the date. You'd be disappointed if you read it anyhow...lol

[horsetrader]

A bit more to rearing fish than that from my understanding. I doubt it would be that simple.

I did write a similar article but not that one....lol

Actually had a friend back home that had a hatchery he raise multiple species with no issues

[Jorg]

Pretty hard to prove a negative until after the fact.

It is -- but look around Alberta is not a pristine wilderness, everywhere you go it is chopped up farm land and oil and gas property most of our water bodies in the south are man made. Things have changed. I don't understand why a little more change that will make a bunch of people happy brings out all the conservationists who preach all the doom and gloom.

[horsetrader]

Pretty hard to prove a negative until after the fact.

but they already stocked bass and it showed no negative impact on any native species

[pickrel pat]

anybody take a stab at why we dont relocate polar bears to alberta?....... because it would be stupid, expensive, unneccesary, they might not survive, and they might throw the ecosystem out of whack should they survive..... hey.... thats very similar to the bass of this thread..... or do you think we need polar bears? 1 more specie to hunt...... maybe not such a bad idea..... lmao!!!! i kill myself!!!!

[horsetrader]

There have been a lot of threads and posts on this subject but I can't remember one post showing any proof that bass will have a positive impact on any native species.

WOW even native species don't show a positive impact on other native species
but native species sure show a negative impact on native species

[Jorg]

anybody take a stab at why we dont relocate polar bears to alberta?....... because it would be stupid, expensive, unneccesary, they might not survive, and they might throw the ecosystem out of whack should they survive..... hey.... thats very similar to the bass of this thread..... or do you think we need polar bears? 1 more specie to hunt...... maybe not such a bad idea..... lmao!!!! i kill myself!!!!

I'm thinking cause we are short of seals and icebergs

[pickrel pat]

I'm thinking cause we are short of seals and icebergswell im thinkin we must be short on something for bass because.... well... they are not here either....

[horsetrader]

If smallmouth are that popular, you'd think Vancouver Island would be overrun. Last few times I've been out there I haven't run into a single bass fisherman...lots of guys fishing for trout but not bass.

Are you kidding Bass could put Alberta on the map

[horsetrader]

anybody take a stab at why we dont relocate polar bears to alberta?....... because it would be stupid, expensive, unneccesary, they might not survive, and they might throw the ecosystem out of whack should they survive..... hey.... thats very similar to the bass of this thread..... or do you think we need polar bears? 1 more specie to hunt...... maybe not such a bad idea..... lmao!!!! i kill myself!!!!

I alway said i would not put someone on ignore don't make me want to change my mind

[horsetrader]

I was speaking to your comment about The Fishing Geeks.

I doubt you'd see a marginal smallmouth fishery attract much economic boom. The folks on Vancouver Island aren't getting rich and that is a world-class smallmouth fishery.

It is hard to compete with a huge salt water fishery
alberta does not have that competition a bass fishery would be a win

[horsetrader]

well im thinkin we must be short on something for bass because.... well... they are not here either....

Well there was 11 other species that were not here before but are now and i bet you enjoy catching at least couple of them

[Jorg]

It is hard to compete with a huge salt water fishery
alberta does not have that competition a bass fishery would be a win

I always thought what an economic bost it would be to campgrounds and such around Eagle lake if Bass where introduced there, it is a stale old lake that could use some new juice.

[sheephunter]

Are you kidding Bass could put Alberta on the map

Now that was funny.

[sheephunter]

It is hard to compete with a huge salt water fishery


Kind of like competing against a world class trout fishery......lol

Bass aren't even on the radar on the Island...let alone competing. The interest just isn't there other than from small groups. It would be no different here. People aren't going to flock to Alberta for a mediocre bass fishery. There are countless great ones to choose from across North America.

[xtreme hunter10]

yup we have very limited amounts of water bodies in Alberta so lets introduce more species so we can divide it up further.

maybe it works out maybe it doesnt. I dont think its worth the risk. Dont have to travel that far to get to them anyway. And it makes for a nice trip!

PS - I like fishing for them also!

Your thinking about lakes. Look at our drainage basins. We have a large number of rivers i this province that would be, if we did not introduce any species athabasca rainbows, bull trout, lake sturgeon and for the sake of arguement northern pike. The rest were put into our rivers in the early 1900s if i remember correctly. and those fish have adapted very well in our rivers. what is affecting our rivers is not species related as to pollution. I mean yes, in some instances there is conflict but you see that more in the lakes than in the rivers.
You have to remember also that its not just humans adding unwanted fish into other habitats, its birds, mammals. they deposit eggs from one body of water to another so we get this happening naturally as well.
When biologists pick a lake to introduce a new species into it, there is a lot of research that goes into it, they dont just do it and see how it unfolds. I have no problem with them introducing grass carp, or small mouth bass into island lake. why not? do you know how many people fish in this province? lets face it, without re-introductions and introducing new species of fish into the ecosystem there wouldnt be any fish left. thats not to mention winter kill as well. so when you say you are against it, you are also saying you are against putting fish back into a lake that winter killed because the native fish have all but died. so it would be a non-native batch that would be added.
I agree with you to a certain extent, that mixing certain species in a lake is stupid. mixing perch and rainbows for example. im against that. what ends up happening is the perch eat the rainbow eggs and because of the sharp spine on the perch's dorsal area the rainbows choke on the fish or it kills the rainbow if they try to eat it. All in all, I completely disagree, to a certain point.

[pickrel pat]

Your thinking about lakes. Look at our drainage basins. We have a large number of rivers i this province that would be, if we did not introduce any species athabasca rainbows, bull trout, lake sturgeon and for the sake of arguement northern pike. The rest were put into our rivers in the early 1900s if i remember correctly. and those fish have adapted very well in our rivers. face palm.......so walleye, perch, goldeye, burbot, mooneye, sauger, whitefish, blah blah blah...... are all introduced fish to alberta? facepalm. Horse....youve hurt my feelers! I dont want to be on anybodys ignore list!:scared:

[pickrel pat]

I alway said i would not put someone on ignore don't make me want to change my mind

sorry, didnt realize you were pro polar bear.

[pickrel pat]

Well there was 11 other species that were not here before but are now and i bet you enjoy catching at least couple of them

not so much really, I only target pike, perch, and eyes.

[xtreme hunter10]

lol.... funniest post of the year son. those are the facts........ lol.

Why is that post funny? gettin too much of the wackey tobacky? ??? sorry, I dont see the humor in that post.

[xtreme hunter10]

face palm.......so walleye, perch, goldeye, burbot, mooneye, sauger, whitefish, blah blah blah...... are all introduced fish to alberta? facepalm. Horse....youve hurt my feelers! I dont want to be on anybodys ignore list!:scared:

Walleye, perch were introduced from ontario east, eastern slope cutthroat were brought in from colorado and wyoming.
ya, so i missed whitefish and burbot. I believe mooneye/goldeye were introduced as well. Either way the point is that most of the fish we fish for were introduced. Im sure we can agree with that.

[mikeo2]

PS it wasn't you who wrote that article was it...lol

Probably wasnt sheep, it wasnt about slip bobbers....:sHa_sarcasticlol: just kidding sheep.

[sheephunter]

Walleye, perch were introduced from ontario east, eastern slope cutthroat were brought in from colorado and wyoming.
ya, so i missed whitefish and burbot. I believe mooneye/goldeye were introduced as well. Either way the point is that most of the fish we fish for were introduced. Im sure we can agree with that.

Ummmm no!

[sheephunter]

Probably wasnt sheep, it wasnt about slip bobbers....:sHa_sarcasticlol: just kidding sheep.

Hey, I occasionally write about crankbaits too :)

[pickrel pat]

Why is that post funny? gettin too much of the wackey tobacky? ??? sorry, I dont see the humor in that post.

why is the post funny? gettin too much wacky tobaccy? i dont see the humour in this post.
its funny because its funny.
not enough.
the humour is ........... your dead wrong and have been misinformed.
sorry, i realize your probably a young feller but when you are wrong on this site be prepared to be called on it. happy hunting and fishing.:)

[Christofficer]

Admin should just lock this **** and get it over with. Although it's funny seeing horsetrader's lame comebacks..... I just don't know how some people live here on earth but seem so far away from it.

:sHa_sarcasticlol:


The whole bass idea is riding on people who do illegal and retarded things. This would be a cool idea if people wouldn't transfer them. They're bass....... they'd be illegally introduced everywhere if they started stocking them. That's my only beef with bass. I wanna fish for them like everyone else does but you guys aren't getting the point that this isn't about YOU or anyone else who abides by the law. Everyone here knows if they started a few bass lakes they'd be spread throughout the province in no time.

[avb3]

Walleye, perch were introduced from ontario east, eastern slope cutthroat were brought in from colorado and wyoming.
ya, so i missed whitefish and burbot. I believe mooneye/goldeye were introduced as well. Either way the point is that most of the fish we fish for were introduced. Im sure we can agree with that.

Walleye and perch from Ontario?

I don't think so, but your welcome to give us a link that indicates the same.

[mikeo2]

Everyone here knows if they started a few bass lakes they'd be spread throughout the province in no time.

But I thought Bass wouldnt live in our lakes here, or very few of the lakes and rivers here anyways, so if they did spread they would die off soon after they left their original stocked water.

[mikeo2]

your welcome to give us a link that indicates the same.

He should give you the same link you gave everyone else from another state that has very little relivance here.

[chubbdarter]

He should give you the same link you gave everyone else from another state that has very little relivance here.


this link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmyzFsYEdco&feature=related

[Christofficer]

But I thought Bass wouldnt live in our lakes here, or very few of the lakes and rivers here anyways, so if they did spread they would die off soon after they left their original stocked water.

Then what's the point of stocking them? reverse psychology doesn't work here matey. Either make a good point or be quiet.

[sheephunter]

But I thought Bass wouldnt live in our lakes here, or very few of the lakes and rivers here anyways, so if they did spread they would die off soon after they left their original stocked water.

Either way it sounds dangerous or a waste of money.

[chubbdarter]

Either way it sounds dangerous or a waste of money.

Coming from a guy who hunts Grizzley bear at close range...lol

Congrats to you and your better half.....great animal

[sheephunter]

Coming from a guy who hunts Grizzley bear at close range...lol

Congrats to you and your better half.....great animal

LOL...thanks!

[horsetrader]

Then what's the point of stocking them? reverse psychology doesn't work here matey. Either make a good point or be quiet.

For the same reason they have stocked rainbows for years and years
I will say it slow for you ITS A PUT AND TAKE FISHERY.

[sheephunter]

For the same reason they have stocked rainbows for years and years
I will say it slow for you ITS A PUT AND TAKE FISHERY.

Why should we put our current fisheries at risk and spend additional funds for another put and take fishery? What's the upside to this? What am I missing?

[horsetrader]

Admin should just lock this **** and get it over with. Although it's funny seeing horsetrader's lame comebacks..... I just don't know how some people live here on earth but seem so far away from it.
It always amazes me how when i person can't get his own way he wants the thread closed reminds me of the little kids( your not playing fair i'm going to take my ball and go home)


:sHa_sarcasticlol:


The whole bass idea is riding on people who do illegal and retarded things. This would be a cool idea if people wouldn't transfer them. They're bass....... they'd be illegally introduced everywhere if they started stocking them. That's my only beef with bass. I wanna fish for them like everyone else does but you guys aren't getting the point that this isn't about YOU or anyone else who abides by the law. Everyone here knows if they started a few bass lakes they'd be spread throughout the province in no time.

I don't see were you get off calling any one RETARDED If you HAD any credibility which you don't you would have lost it there. Instead now you are just the ramblings of a spoiled child.

[horsetrader]

Why should we put our current fisheries at risk and spend additional funds for another put and take fishery? What's the upside to this? What am I missing?

I don't see where it is putting anything at risk and we already had the conversation about cost if you recall

OOps sorry missed your last question the up side would be the addition of a great fish to a fishery the is getting very boring

[sheephunter]

I don't see where it is putting anything at risk and we already had the conversation about cost if you recall

I do recall but I'm not sure about your facts. Anyhow, getting back to my question, what's the upside? Bass grow slowly and would require several years to reach a point of providing a put and take fishery, unlike rainbows. I highly doubt our current rainbow hatcheries could double up for bass without considerable cost and while you may not see the risk, there are many that do. So what's the upside?

Edit: Saw your edit above. I'm not really sure your boredom is sufficent reason to incur all these risks and costs...lol Go to BC.

[horsetrader]

I do recall but I'm not sure about your facts. Anyhow, getting back to my question, what's the upside? Bass grow slowly and would require several years to reach a point of providing a put and take fishery, unlike rainbows. I highly doubt our current rainbow hatcheries could double up for bass without considerable cost and while you may not see the risk, there are many that do. So what's the upside?

Edit: Saw your edit above. I'm not really sure your boredom is sufficent reason to incur all these risks and costs...lol Go to BC.

ok let me ask you this bass have all ready been stocked in albert where is the risks you are talking about I have gone through all the info about that stocking and there is no mention of any risk to any other species in there.So where are the risks.


If you check the links that rocky kindly posted and check the POLE i must not be the only person that feels this way.

[chubbdarter]

I appreciate your concerns.....but go to BC is hardly fair
Go to scotland for browns
Go to cali for Goldens
Go to china for a ringneck
etc..etc...etc..
Im not sure Bass are even native to B.C.....in fact i believe they arnt.

I see no harm in a controlled experiment to see if a viable Bass fishery can exsist in southern alberta...its part of good science and human growth to expand knowledge.

[sheephunter]

ok let me ask you this bass have all ready been stocked in albert where is the risks you are talking about I have gone through all the info about that stocking and there is no mention of any risk to any other species in there.So where are the risks.


If you check the links that rocky kindly posted and check the POLE i must not be the only person that feels this way.

Come on horsetrader, you're an intelligent guy. You obviously understand that introducing a non-native voracious predator to an ecosystem comes with risks.

I have no doubt that there are more than you but relieving the boredom of a handful of wannabe Alberta bass anglers hardly justifies the risks and costs. If you are that bored, take a drive west. I do every year and the bass fishing is awesome.

[sheephunter]

I appreciate your concerns.....but go to BC is hardly fair
Go to scotland for browns
Go to cali for Goldens
Go to china for a ringneck
etc..etc...etc..
Im not sure Bass are even native to B.C.....in fact i believe they arnt.

I see no harm in a controlled experiment to see if a viable Bass fishery can exsist in southern alberta...its part of good science and human growth to expand knowledge.

Chubb, when the best arguement you can muster is that two wrongs make a right, you are on pretty shaky ground.

No, bass aren't native to BC nor were they legally stocked.

What is the point of the experiement? Good science and human growth, come on, I snorted cup a soup on my keyboard over that one.

From what I've seen no one has yet to offer a valid reason for this experiment other than they are bored.

[horsetrader]

Come on horsetrader, you're an intelligent guy. You obviously understand that introducing a non-native voracious predator to an ecosystem comes with risks.

you don't have to get nasty by calling me intelligent........ lol

if you look at things that way then we must ban all fishing all hunting everything because every time we fish hunt or enter the outback we are putting our ecosystem at risk



I have no doubt that there are more than you but relieving the boredom of a handful of wannabe Alberta bass anglers hardly justifies the risks and costs. If you are that bored, take a drive west. I do every year and the bass fishing is awesome.

just think you could have that awesome fishery here


got to go back to work but will be back to play

[sheephunter]

just think you could have that awesome fishery here

Possibly but I don't see the risk and costs being justified to find out.

If you really want to get an education on the risks of introducing bass, I suggest you have a talk with a few of the biologists in BC and get their thoughts. They are begrudging living with them now because they are so firmly established but I doubt you could find one that is happy they are there.

Anyhow, I suspect this is a somewhat moot discussion anyhow as the Alberta government has made it abundantly clear that it's not going to happen any time soon.

[chubbdarter]

Chubb, when the best arguement you can muster is that two wrongs make a right, you are on pretty shaky ground.

No, bass aren't native to BC nor were they legally stocked.

What is the point of the experiement? Good science and human growth, come on, I snorted cup a soup on my keyboard over that one.

From what I've seen no one has yet to offer a valid reason for this experiment other than they are bored.

Too find a alternate to a trout stocking program that fails on many levels......
Tell me the Browns in the Bow is a bad thing....they are suited well for the water conditions....they have more intelligence than any Bully....which has been a major down fall of its population.
I snorted pepsi when you posted Go to BC
I understand peacock bass would be a wasted experiment from what i understand.....but variety is possible i believe.
If nothing the experiment done correctly will end the debate and we will all be wiser from it.
I still say try a warm water res. in southern alberta.
I used to have the go some where else attitude also....i told the boys in the quality trout thread to go to BC for trophy trout. But after some thought that hardly says good about AB.
It diversifies OUR fishery and expands oppertunitues for AB anglers....especially for the majority of licence buying anglers that cat afford to leave the province to fish

[Jayhad]

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water:sign0161:
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Yes Browns & rainbows worked out in the bow, a 1 in 1,000,000 fluke. Just look at every creek that has stunted brookies. The bow could have possibly been one of the best cutthroat and bull fisheries in the world. Looking at a mistake made 90 years ago before we knew better that kind-of worked out is not a defense for bass.

[sheephunter]

Conduct a dangerous experiment to prove a pointless point? Come on chubb, even you can see the folly in that.

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass. I'd love the opportunity to fish bass in my backyard too but when you weigh the risks and costs, that dog just doesn't hunt!

[chubbdarter]

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water:sign0161:
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Perhaps we should introduce fallow deer, for the hunters OH YA we tried that in BC..... hows that working for them

I have relatives in NB that see colder temps than we do and this last year there ice stayed longer.....so i guess they all didnt spawn.

Im not suggesting the Roland Martin and Forrest Wood will have the next Bass Masters Classic on Keho....what i am saying is take some cash from the trout stocking program and lets try to expand our fishery

[Jayhad]

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass.

you forgot to mention all the small streams that used to be salmon and steelhead rearing streams in the lower mainland which are quickly becoming full of stunted smallies

[sheephunter]

you forgot to mention all the small streams that used to be salmon and steelhead rearing streams in the lower mainland which are quickly becoming full of stunted smallies

Ya, there are stories from all over BC like that. Anglers on the Island hate them because they've ruined some great trout fisheries too. I'd rate the smallmouth fishing on the Island as good as anywhere in North America yet the belief amoung most locals is that they are a trash fish. There is definitely no love affair there.

[Jayhad]

what i am saying is take some cash from the trout stocking program and lets try to expand our fishery

fair enough but the majority of cash for trout stocking is for put and take lakes..... those people that like to whack and stack "need" their fair share becuase they paid for thier license... when the trout dry up because we aren't stocking those lakes due to the cash is going to fund the new bass hatchery what water shed do you want to open up limits and bait restrictions on?

[chubbdarter]

Conduct a dangerous experiment to prove a pointless point? Come on chubb, even you can see the folly in that.

Seriously, take the time to talk with a few of the BC bios, especially in the Kootenays and see what they have to say about how bass. I'd love the opportunity to fish bass in my backyard too but when you weigh the risks and costs, that dog just doesn't hunt!

Kootenay bios are shiney fish lovers....ive worked with few.

[avb3]

He should give you the same link you gave everyone else from another state that has very little relivance here.

So then I assumed you didn't read the 61 page report I posted from Alberta? Being a bit selective, are we?

[sheephunter]

Kootenay bios are shiney fish lovers....ive worked with few.

Yup and just look at the negative impact the bass have had on those shiny fish...the same shiny fish found in Alberta. If you've worked with them, I'm sure you understand the risks.

[chubbdarter]

fair enough but the majority of cash for trout stocking is for put and take lakes..... those people that like to whack and stack "need" their fair share becuase they paid for thier license... when the trout dry up because we aren't stocking those lakes due to the cash is going to fund the new bass hatchery what water shed do you want to open up limits and bait restrictions on?

I dont want the bass season to open at first...i want a controlled experiment done by bass knowledgeable bios to use a closed or strained lake enviroment. If its proven its not possible or feasible to raise bass in a self sustaining nature then its over.....some cost...maybe alot of cost....but we are constantly pouring money now and NOT learning anything

[chubbdarter]

Yup and just look at the negative impact the bass have had on those shiny fish...the same shiny fish found in Alberta. If you've worked with them, I'm sure you understand the risks.


come on now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those same shiney fish stocked in Alberta are NOT native to Alberta.
unless your ponds are getting a Athabasca strain

[sheephunter]

come on now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those same shiney fish stocked in Alberta are NOT native to Alberta.
unless your ponds are getting a Athabasca strain

So it's okay to introduce another non-native species to Alberta knowing full well that it could severly impact another well established non-native species. You are starting to lose me chubb.

[chubbdarter]

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water:sign0161:
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Yes Browns & rainbows worked out in the bow, a 1 in 1,000,000 fluke. Just look at every creek that has stunted brookies. The bow could have possibly been one of the best cutthroat and bull fisheries in the world. Looking at a mistake made 90 years ago before we knew better that kind-of worked out is not a defense for bass.

very few cutties and bullies can live in the water we know as the Bow now.....a brown can cough up a tampon like a cat hacks up a hairball.....it would kill most cutties and bullies

[chubbdarter]

So it's okay to introduce another non-native species to Alberta knowing full well that it could severly impact another well established non-native species. You are starting to lose me chubb.

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?

Who said i wanted bass dumped into established meat ponds?

[Jayhad]

I dont want the bass season to open at first...i want a controlled experiment done by bass knowledgeable bios to use a closed or strained lake enviroment. If its proven its not possible or feasible to raise bass in a self sustaining nature then its over.....some cost...maybe alot of cost....but we are constantly pouring money now and NOT learning anything

dude it doesn't take a bass knowledgeable biologist to know we don't have the environment for bass to do well..... just like it doesn't take a arctic hare knowledgeable biologist to know they won't do well in southern Arizona.

But why don't you stop arguing on a pointless thread and do something about it, you have the power to go to a fisheries round table meeting and ask the pro biologists if they can visit the issue...... but post on here what meeting you are going to, I want to see the hillarity that insues.

[sheephunter]

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?



:confused::confused:

[chubbdarter]

dude it doesn't take a bass knowledgeable biologist to know we don't have the environment for bass to do well..... just like it doesn't take a arctic hare knowledgeable biologist to know they won't do well in southern Arizona.

But why don't you stop arguing on a pointless thread and do something about it, you have the power to go to a fisheries round table meeting and ask the pro biologists if they can visit the issue...... but post on here what meeting you are going to, I want to see the hillarity that insues.

okay i was gonna restrain from cheap shots.....i'll go to the meeting and suggest we would have the greatest cuttie and bully fishery in the world as you referred to if browns didnt exsist

[chubbdarter]

:confused::confused:

they are non native....correct?
so how did it turn out bad?
Your against the non native introduction

[avb3]

So how has stocking of non native RBT....hurt the pothole lakes they have been stocked in?

Who said i wanted bass dumped into established meat ponds?

The introduced rainbow trout have contributed significantly to western cutthroats being listed as a result of competition and particularly hybridization. Anywhere introduced brook trout appeared, the western cutthroat declined significantly or disappeared.

Do we really want to see what effect bass may have? :snapoutofit:

[Jayhad]

okay i was gonna restrain from cheap shots.....i'll go to the meeting and suggest we would have the greatest cuttie and bully fishery in the world as you referred to if browns didnt exsist

..... I said it could have been, you can even view it. yep you're a true debater good one, you're right we need bass. Where can I sign up


found it www.imtrappedinthementalityofthe60s.com

[chubbdarter]

The introduced rainbow trout have contributed significantly to western cutthroats being listed as a result of competition and particularly hybridization. Anywhere introduced brook trout appeared, the western cutthroat declined significantly or disappeared.

Do we really want to see what effect bass may have? :snapoutofit:

im still waiting on the info about a brown/bull cross.

[sheephunter]

they are non native....correct?
so how did it turn out bad?
Your against the non native introduction

I thought this thread was about bass. Again with the two wrongs making a right? Let's just stick to bass. Make a viable arguement for their introduction and I'm sure people will listen. Keep talking about all the other things we may have done wrong in the past justifying it and people are less likely to listen. What is the benefit of introducing bass...other than settling an internet discussion?

[chubbdarter]

The introduced rainbow trout have contributed significantly to western cutthroats being listed as a result of competition and particularly hybridization. Anywhere introduced brook trout appeared, the western cutthroat declined significantly or disappeared.

Do we really want to see what effect bass may have? :snapoutofit:

well i apologize....i didnt know of any pothole stocked RBT that have migrated to the mountain streams....i do believe i said pothole

[avb3]

im still waiting on the info about a brown/bull cross.

Then you must of missed the link on my post 104. (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showpost.php?p=1077271&postcount=104)

Your wait's over.

[chubbdarter]

I thought this thread was about bass. Again with the two wrongs making a right? Let's just stick to bass. Make a viable arguement for their introduction and I'm sure people will listen. Keep talking about all the other things we may have done wrong in the past justifying it and people are less likely to listen. What is the benefit of introducing bass...other than settling an internet discussion?


once again....yes its about Bass. BUT you keep mentioning the Dangers and that we should learn from our mistakes. So im asking what are the dangers?

p.s. i dont think for the most part trout introdution was a mistake...its provided a fishery we did not have before.....and its benifits are huge.....hmmm maybe i want another option

[avb3]

once again....yes its about Bass. BUT you keep mentioning the Dangers and that we should learn from our mistakes. So im asking what are the dangers?

p.s. i dont think for the most part trout introdution was a mistake...its provided a fishery we did not have before.....and its benifits are huge.....hmmm maybe i want another option

Do you not recognize that it had a negative impact on native species?

If you do, do you care or does it matter to you?

In other words, are you arguing that introduced species did not impact native ones, or are you arguing it doesn't matter?

[sheephunter]

once again....yes its about Bass. BUT you keep mentioning the Dangers and that we should learn from our mistakes. So im asking what are the dangers?

p.s. i dont think for the most part trout introdution was a mistake...its provided a fishery we did not have before.....and its benifits are huge.....hmmm maybe i want another option

Trout and bass are two very different species so I fail to see the point of a comparison. But, there are risks with introducing any non-native as has been proven with both rainbows and brookies if you break out of the confines of your little pond.

"I" want another option just doesn't seem reason enough to put Alberta's fisheries at risk and justify the costs. Give us something concrete and you'll likely get some support. As I said, I love to fish for bass but I'm not sure my desires should dictate fish management in the province. After being in New Zealand I love hunting for tahr and chamois as well but I'm not sure that's enough justification to introduce them to Alberta.

Chubb, we've made a lot of mistakes in the past and it's good to learn from them rather than use them as excuses to make more.

[chubbdarter]

Im fully aware some introductions have not turned out as desired.
BUT....many have turned out well. Some may not be as popular as a fishery per say such as the Golden trout which is non accessible to many. I still consider it a success and a option for AB anglers.

[chubbdarter]

If trout werent stocked in the thousands of pothole ponds in alberta.....what would be in them?

p.s. imdoing the best i can to keep up....i type with 2 fingers

[horsetrader]

$$$$
that's the issue. Bass typically spawn in febuary during the first full moon until the full moon in march..... when the water is 17c-20c. You guys must be smart enough to see a problem here, Febuary and 20c water:sign0161:
so the fishery wouldn't be sustainable, and need to be supplemented with hatchery fish....... hatchery fish. So the hatchery would need Bass specific biologists, the hatchery would need to be Bass specific.
And 95% of fisheries biologists now agree that hatchery produced fish are inferior and degrade the species.

Yes Browns & rainbows worked out in the bow, a 1 in 1,000,000 fluke. Just look at every creek that has stunted brookies. The bow could have possibly been one of the best cutthroat and bull fisheries in the world. Looking at a mistake made 90 years ago before we knew better that kind-of worked out is not a defense for bass.

Well if you and your :sign0161: will read we were talking a put and take system not a spawning system love when guy jump in 9 pages later

[horsetrader]

So then I assumed you didn't read the 61 page report I posted from Alberta? Being a bit selective, are we?

You were pretty selective yourself in the pages that you didnt post to read it gave the other four reasons besides the introduction on non native species for the decline of the bull trout