Too many missed fish...

[Woody_16]

So the last month has been quite painstaking.. I finally found spots that were producing and had fish biting my hooks. Seems now that my problem is that I can't get any of them on to shore. I'm going to rant a bit and then try to summarize into some answerable questions.

Seems that my lines are snapping way more than what should be just "random chance". So I went ahead and changed the lines on all of my rods. I generally use a longer rod with 10# Berkley XT and an ultra-lite with 6# Berkley XL. I switch between the two depending on location/species/technique. I never tie my line directly onto my hooks, generally using a snap-swivel instead. I also generally never use a leader as I seem to have the impression that fish (with the possible exception of pike who seem to eat anything you throw out there) will be spooked off by it. I use a trilene knot to tie on my swivels. After losing a few hooks and checking out the line that came in, it seemed they were breaking right at the knot as the coils were still on the end of the line from tying the knot. I re-googled how to tie it and realized that I was only putting it through the eye once as opposed to two loops. I have since remedied that silly mistake.

Using the most recent example (this afternoon on the Oldman) I tied into a nice sized pike (I got him close enough to see before he took off with my crankbait) and seemed to have no trouble and was getting excited about my first fish out of the river (unfortunately I wasn't fishing much all summer). Sure enough, almost as if right on cue actually, it broke the line right as it was close enough for me to see. Thinking that it must've caught the teeth somehow, I threw a leader on and, of course, didn't catch another one. The same thing happened a few days back when I had a nice walleye follow my hook in, next cast I got him.. Exact same thing, got him close enough to see and then bye bye hook.

Not only is this extremely frustrating, but it's starting to get expensive to the point where I am scared to even put a decent crankbait on the end of my line for fear of most likely (seemingly guaranteed) chance of losing it.. I also am getting to the point where I am considering giving up fishing with rods and just taking explosives and a net to the river! :angry3:

I am not a seasoned vet like many on this forum and so I would be happy with even the most basic tips (since it is likely that I am overlooking something simple). There has to be a reason why 90% of my fish are getting away, there is just no way it's always their doing. For reference, I generally fish around Lethbridge (either in the pond for pike/brooks or in the river for walleye/pike and someday maybe a nice goldeye). I rarely have a chance to sneak away to other places but generally they would be for the same spieces of fish. When I go for trout, I never seem to have any issues.. maybe because I always seem to catch the little guys.. :sign0161:

So I guess to try to sum up some questions...
Are the lines I'm using good enough for what I'm doing or is there alternatives that might be better?
Are leaders a good idea all the time or only if I am targeting pike? Is there any difference between the steel coloured ones and the black coloured ones or is it just preference?
Is the knot I'm using good enough? Is there possibly a better one that might help me out? Should I be tying the knot right onto the hook instead?
Lastly, what is the best bet for setting the hooks? I seem to have a few too many get off the hook (in those rare times when they don't take the darn hook) and it seems to happen whether I reef on it or barely set it at all..

That's pretty long winded.. maybe it's none of the above problems and I just need to find a new hobby lol.. Anyways, any suggestions that could help me land a few more before winter comes would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Lefty-Canuck]

I have a feeling that you may be having "knot failure" or you may have to play the fish out a bit more before trying to bring them in. I rarely have a fish break me off....I think you might be trying to "horse" in the fish?

Just trying to guess whats going on.

LC

[BeeGuy]

I use trilene 6# on the light set up and 14# fireline on the medium.

I only put the tag end of the line through once with my knots and my knots never fail.

Sometimes if the eye of your hook/lure is bouncing off rocks/bottom it can wear the line at the knot which may be what you are experiencing sometimes.

I have gotten in the habit of using heavier mono as a leader on all my rods.

Depending on the set up 8-36" leaders of 14, 20, or 40# mono.

I check my line religiously for wear at the knot, and in the region where im casting 3-5' from the lure. This is where high tension from casting occurs at the top eyelet and can cause wear.

I don't like steel leaders.

I don't use swivels on hooks. However, sometimes I'll use a barrel swivel (no snap) well above the hook depending on the rig.

[Kokanee9]

I agree with lefty. My daughter had the habit of reeling hard and fast and she lost 80% before they got to the boat. Maybe lighten the drag a bit and don't reel the fish toward you, rather gently pull it (when able) toward you and then reel in the slack as you angle the rod toward the fish. Repeat that over and over. When the fish runs, let it. Use the flexibility in your rod to help you. Your line is more than strong enough. Check your line after so many casts for stretching and fraying. Once or twice during your outing, peel off about 15 ft of line and retie your line to get some fresh line up to your hook.
Good luck.

[commieboy]

One thing that wasn't suggested yet was the age of your leader material. Both age and UV exposure can weaken mono and fluoro. I generally change out all my leader material if I haven't used it up in a year.

I hope you find something in the responses that helps. I know how frustrating losing fish can be.

[Tezma]

I agree with lefty. My daughter had the habit of reeling hard and fast and she lost 80% before they got to the boat. Maybe lighten the drag a bit and don't reel the fish toward you, rather gently pull it (when able) toward you and then reel in the slack as you angle the rod toward the fish. Repeat that over and over. When the fish runs, let it. Use the flexibility in your rod to help you. Your line is more than strong enough. Check your line after so many casts for stretching and fraying. Once or twice during your outing, peel off about 15 ft of line and retie your line to get some fresh line up to your hook.
Good luck.

Yes I agree with Kokanee9.

Use some more drag and play the fish more.

[Eddy62]

if the end off your line is coiled after you reel in it is your knot. its pulling apart with pressure put on the knot.are you wetting your line and pulling it tight?

i use a double clinch knot or palomar knot . i fish lots off rivers and have yet to lose a fish because off a knot, i use berkley xt 8 lb all the time good overall line, sometimes if my line is taking a beating with lots off rocks around i will put a 36 or 48 inch fluorocarbon leader on as it is tough, and allways check your line for nicks..

your knot is everything......

[chubbdarter]

if the end off your line is coiled after you reel in it is your knot. its pulling apart with pressure put on the knot.are you wetting your line and pulling it tight?

i use a double clinch knot or palomar knot . i fish lots off rivers and have yet to lose a fish because off a knot, i use berkley xt 8 lb all the time good overall line, sometimes if my line is taking a beating with lots off rocks around i will put a 36 or 48 inch fluorocarbon leader on as it is tough, and allways check your line for nicks..

your knot is everything......


I agree..pigtails are from knot slippage or a mono burn

[BeeGuy]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but I always test my knots.

especially with the 6lb line. weak points show up like a neon sign.

[Woody_16]

Thanks for all the replies!

I definately try my hardest not to "horse" the fish in. I definately used to do that and I know that my girlfriend has a tendency to (common sense if you don't know any better I guess.. she also gets scared when they take line out on her lol). After thinking back on that pike from today, he didn't seem to take much line out. I always check my drag at the start by pulling on the line with my hand to see how easy it comes out. It makes perfect sense to me though that he most likely was putting too much pressure on the line from not being able to tire out as there was a clean break on the end when I reeled it in. What is the best way to know when your drag is set properly? It would obviously be detrimental to have the fish able to swim freely all over the water and likewise it is obviously too hard on the line to not let them swim at all.. how do you know when you have that healthy middle ground before you throw a cast out there? Two of my rods have the drag on the bottom with numbers and 2 have the drag on top of the spool with no markings if it makes a difference..

I have a sneaking suspicion that most of my recent lost fish can be attributed to either the drag being set improperly or weak line that should've been trimmed and re-tied. Those 2 will definately be the first things that I work on when I head out next.


Don't know if it's been mentioned but I always test my knots.

especially with the 6lb line. weak points show up like a neon sign.

How would one go about doing that?

[BeeGuy]

How would one go about doing that?

Grab your lure in one hand (carefully) then grab your line and give it a pull.

6lb line with a nick will break quite easily.

Be careful not to cut your fingers on the line if it is >6lb or braided.

Line cuts sting!

When I'm using heavier # or braided line I wrap the line around my pliers handle a couple times in order to avoid cutting myself. I do this when tying on 40lb test leaders as well to get the knots tight as the line is very thick.

[Crossfire]

Hey i think your problem is knot failure or poor quality line that does not like knots very well.

[Eddy62]

[QUOTE=Woody_16;1123261]Thanks for all the replies!

I definately try my hardest not to "horse" the fish in. I definately used to do that and I know that my girlfriend has a tendency to (common sense if you don't know any better I guess.. she also gets scared when they take line out on her lol). After thinking back on that pike from today, he didn't seem to take much line out. I always check my drag at the start by pulling on the line with my hand to see how easy it comes out. It makes perfect sense to me though that he most likely was putting too much pressure on the line from not being able to tire out as there was a clean break on the end when I reeled it in. What is the best way to know when your drag is set properly? It would obviously be detrimental to have the fish able to swim freely all over the water and likewise it is obviously too hard on the line to not let them swim at all.. how do you know when you have that healthy middle ground before you throw a cast out there? Two of my rods have the drag on the bottom with numbers and 2 have the drag on top of the spool with no markings if it makes a difference..

I have a sneaking suspicion that most of my recent lost fish can be attributed to either the drag being set improperly or weak line that should've been trimmed and re-tied. Those 2 will definately be the first things that I work on when I head out next.




ok you use berkley xt .strong line for sure its not your line being weak or getting bad spools as this happens to you all the time.when ever i go out fishing i either pull out 4 feet and just cut it off or if i was catching lots i just re spool again.or sometimes i will pull all my line off spool and reverse it back on spool.ive seen alot off people pull off 140 yds off line when they have only used 30 yds.

i dont keep my drag to loose ..learn how to operate your drag while you are bringing your fish in its a simple procedure..

your line is not snapping if you are reeling in and seeing coils.its your KNOTS go to wss or fishing hole and buy a book on tying different knots and use the one that works best for you.or the internet or maybe someone here on AO can send you a link to proper knot tying as i am no good at uploading anything...

[jjstar]

Also check your drag by pulling on the line through the rod.. By this I mean hold the rod then grab the line coming from the end of the rod and pull this is the way to see how much drag is being set. If you just pull it straight off the reel it has the potential to be set way to high.

Also my crank bait rod and reel I use trilene Big game(12# - 20#) it has better scuff resistance and I pulled in a 163lb Halibut on the 25# stuff; line in the mouth for 45 minutes scuffed but not broken..

Finally when you tighten your not make sure you wet it. If not the heat created will substantially weaken the knot.

[0liver]

Try a double clinch knot instead of w.e a 'trilene' knot is... if there the same thing make sure that you are getting atleast 5 twists and not more then 12 as too little and it will pull threw too much and it won't be full strength either

also if your fishing anywhere with even the smallest of pike...use a leader. There teeth are shaped like tiny reverse razors and will rip apart mono, braid, anything..especially in the river or when trolling where they have a tendency to get all rolled up in the line. Some people say that you don't need to use a leader for walleye, but thats bs. anything over 5lbs and they run the chance of rolling or wrapping themselves around weeds/debris so its still best to use a leader. try using some of those super supple titanium leaders but steel leaders work just as well. DO NOT be afraid to use one, it doesn't spook the fish especially pike if anything the flashing metal will attract them. with a well tied knot and a leader, you can snag yourself onto a bloody tree and still bend the hook out and retrieve your lure without breaking your 10# test.


Hope this helps
Oliver

[RisingRainbows]

Try a double clinch knot instead of w.e a 'trilene' knot is

A Trilene knot is just a double loop clinch knot. I find the improved clinch knot easier to tie or even better the palomar knot. I believe the palomar is supposed to be stronger too, especially with braided lines.

As was said a couple of times, make sure you are lubricating that knot before you pull it tight. Just spit on it or dip it in the water.

[Unclerj]

If you are using a leader, put a surgeon's loop in the line. Push the loop through the eye of the leader and then pull the leader back through the loop. That is easily the quickest and most secure way to attach the two.

Also, check your ferrules and reel to make sure there are no burrs anywhere that is snagging your line.

Finally, set your drag lighter and enjoy the fight.

[chubbdarter]

I have a feeling that you may be having "knot failure" or you may have to play the fish out a bit more before trying to bring them in. I rarely have a fish break me off....I think you might be trying to "horse" in the fish?

Just trying to guess whats going on.

LC


Discuss drag settings all you want everyone.........A pig tail is Knot Failure

[npauls]

Discuss drag settings all you want everyone.........A pig tail is Knot Failure

I agree with you there. You can have your drag set absolutely perfect on the best reel on the market but if you have a badly tied knot it won't end well. I learned this earlier this season at newel and lost more then my fair share of spinner rigs.

[Eddy62]

thank you chubb. tried explaining that twice:sign0161:

[chubbdarter]

thank you chubb. tried explaining that twice:sign0161:


And you did a great job..but you know the old saying about a horse and water

[Daceminnow]

So the last month has been quite painstaking.. I finally found spots that were producing and had fish biting my hooks. Seems now that my problem is that I can't get any of them on to shore. I'm going to rant a bit and then try to summarize into some answerable questions.

Seems that my lines are snapping way more than what should be just "random chance". So I went ahead and changed the lines on all of my rods. I generally use a longer rod with 10# Berkley XT and an ultra-lite with 6# Berkley XL. I switch between the two depending on location/species/technique. I never tie my line directly onto my hooks, generally using a snap-swivel instead. I also generally never use a leader as I seem to have the impression that fish (with the possible exception of pike who seem to eat anything you throw out there) will be spooked off by it. I use a trilene knot to tie on my swivels. After losing a few hooks and checking out the line that came in, it seemed they were breaking right at the knot as the coils were still on the end of the line from tying the knot. I re-googled how to tie it and realized that I was only putting it through the eye once as opposed to two loops. I have since remedied that silly mistake.

Using the most recent example (this afternoon on the Oldman) I tied into a nice sized pike (I got him close enough to see before he took off with my crankbait) and seemed to have no trouble and was getting excited about my first fish out of the river (unfortunately I wasn't fishing much all summer). Sure enough, almost as if right on cue actually, it broke the line right as it was close enough for me to see. Thinking that it must've caught the teeth somehow, I threw a leader on and, of course, didn't catch another one. The same thing happened a few days back when I had a nice walleye follow my hook in, next cast I got him.. Exact same thing, got him close enough to see and then bye bye hook.

Not only is this extremely frustrating, but it's starting to get expensive to the point where I am scared to even put a decent crankbait on the end of my line for fear of most likely (seemingly guaranteed) chance of losing it.. I also am getting to the point where I am considering giving up fishing with rods and just taking explosives and a net to the river! :angry3:

I am not a seasoned vet like many on this forum and so I would be happy with even the most basic tips (since it is likely that I am overlooking something simple). There has to be a reason why 90% of my fish are getting away, there is just no way it's always their doing. For reference, I generally fish around Lethbridge (either in the pond for pike/brooks or in the river for walleye/pike and someday maybe a nice goldeye). I rarely have a chance to sneak away to other places but generally they would be for the same spieces of fish. When I go for trout, I never seem to have any issues.. maybe because I always seem to catch the little guys.. :sign0161:

So I guess to try to sum up some questions...
Are the lines I'm using good enough for what I'm doing or is there alternatives that might be better?
Are leaders a good idea all the time or only if I am targeting pike? Is there any difference between the steel coloured ones and the black coloured ones or is it just preference?
Is the knot I'm using good enough? Is there possibly a better one that might help me out? Should I be tying the knot right onto the hook instead?
Lastly, what is the best bet for setting the hooks? I seem to have a few too many get off the hook (in those rare times when they don't take the darn hook) and it seems to happen whether I reef on it or barely set it at all..

That's pretty long winded.. maybe it's none of the above problems and I just need to find a new hobby lol.. Anyways, any suggestions that could help me land a few more before winter comes would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


yep. fix yer knot problem. maybe npauls could meet you for coffee and give you a couple pointers, looks like he may be your neighbor. if you ever decide to take the TNT route, i'd suggest doing so under the cover of darkness and please take lots of pics to share with us.

Dace

[braxxtonn]

mabey ur gining the fish slack line?? dont let em have slack.

[EZM]

I think most of this was covered but here's my thoughts anyways;

1) Palomar knot (make sure to moisten)
2) Use a swivel directly to your crank (all species except pike)
3) Leaders for Pike
4) Make sure you are not using a halibut rod with no give (it needs to flex)
5) Set the drag correctly
6) Don't drag the fish in like "Bass-Masters" who skip a 2lb bass along the water on the fight and hoist it into the boat.

[Kim473]

I think most of this was covered but here's my thoughts anyways;

1) Palomar knot (make sure to moisten)
2) Use a swivel directly to your crank (all species except pike)
3) Leaders for Pike
4) Make sure you are not using a halibut rod with no give (it needs to flex)
5) Set the drag correctly
6) Don't drag the fish in like "Bass-Masters" who skip a 2lb bass along the water on the fight and hoist it into the boat.

X2
Search the net for fish line knots and im sure a lot will come up. Search fishing line makers and they probly have knot tying on there sites too.
I use the trilene but I twist the line at least 7 times around and wet the line before you tighten the knot.

[Sundancefisher]

Seems that my lines are snapping way more than what should be just "random chance". So I went ahead and changed the lines on all of my rods. I generally use a longer rod with 10# Berkley XT and an ultra-lite with 6# Berkley XL. I switch between the two depending on location/species/technique. I never tie my line directly onto my hooks, generally using a snap-swivel instead.

Regardless of the line you use...before tightening the knot always wet the line and knot thoroughly. The friction of line rubbing against line as you tighten the knot...generally greatly weakens the line. The water or spit lubs the line and makes it slide rather than rub.

It made a huge difference for me years ago when I had this pointed out to me.

Cheers

Sun

[RavYak]

When you respooled your lines did you use brand new line? Could just be old and brittle line.

As for using a leader, if you are fishing for pike it is stupid not to use a leader. Walleye will take a leadered lure as well depending on what it is(rapalas etc it doesn't seem to make a difference, might be a slight difference when jigging or using bait).

Next issue would be drag. It sounds like you might not have your drag set near low enough(especially if you are using 6 lb for pike/walleye which is way too light). Knots reduce your line strength and any hard strikes(like when the fish sees land or the boat and gives their last run) will easily be over the 4-5 lb needed to snap a 6 lb line unless you have your drag set quite light.

Next thing is to use stronger line. I personally have never understood why people will use a light poundage mono line for pike/walleye, its like using a 22 to hunt bear or moose... Minimum 10 lb line and if you are one of the guys that thinks the larger size deters fish then buy a good braid(20 lb suffix 832 is the same diameter as 6 lb mono). Line size/colour is only really important for perch and trout, walleye and pike don't seem to picky.

[Daceminnow]

still believe you need to learn to tie a good knot. period. lots of different ones, some suited better for different fishing situations or different types of hook/lures being fished. good thread here with some great links.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=86129

Dace

[iliketrout]

you know the old saying about a horse and water

If you take horse to water he'll spend all day looking for bass?

Woody - I have had some knot failures due to not spitting on it or dipping it in the water. I know it's been mentioned already but this is an important step in the process. Don't overlook it.

[Woody_16]

Thanks again for all the responses. I went fishing today and made sure I had a complete mental checklist of everything that was mentioned. I pulled some line of the end of my rods and retied leaders on with the palomar knot, made sure I got it wet (something I know I was forgetting before), made sure that my drag was set looser than previously and made sure I played it enough... and got me a nice ~8lb pike!
:sHa_shakeshout:

I know for a fact that I finally did everything right because he actually pulled hard enough to bend the hook on the crankbait and nothing snapped or broke. Attached some pics, thanks again for the advice.. sometimes I guess back to basics is the answer to seemingly frustrating situations.

[WayneChristie]

way to go, nice fish. I like river pike they fight very nicely. I like 50 or 60 pound flouro for leaders, havent had a pike bite through it yet, and Ive caught a fair number of them over 12 pounds on the stuff. I make the leaders with crimp sleeves, they are cheap and work great. you can coil one up in your pocket and it comes back to straight pretty quick with a cast or two. Ive caught walleye on them in clear water too. Thinking of making some sturgeon rigs out of it too.

[BeeGuy]

way to go, nice fish. I like river pike they fight very nicely. I like 50 or 60 pound flouro for leaders, havent had a pike bite through it yet, and Ive caught a fair number of them over 12 pounds on the stuff. I make the leaders with crimp sleeves, they are cheap and work great. you can coil one up in your pocket and it comes back to straight pretty quick with a cast or two. Ive caught walleye on them in clear water too. Thinking of making some sturgeon rigs out of it too.

Right on, nice fish!! Love how this thread ended in success!

I'm lovin mono leaders. I've just been using 20# and 40# trilene and big game, cause it's cheap.

20# when fishing for big trout and 40# for anything toothy.

Works like a charm and the fish don't seem the wiser.

I hate steel leaders.

[Kokanee9]

You made a change somewhere for the better! Not only were you landing the fish, but also fighting current as well. Good job!

[Eddy62]

nice fish my man..you had a good knot tied there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! keep the big pics coming and its nice to hold your fish isnt it................

[Eddy62]

Right on, nice fish!! Love how this thread ended in success!

I'm lovin mono leaders. I've just been using 20# and 40# trilene and big game, cause it's cheap.

20# when fishing for big trout and 40# for anything toothy.

Works like a charm and the fish don't seem the wiser.

I hate steel leaders.

im with you on that beeguy