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View Full Version : New to hunting - anyone ever have moral dilemma's with it?


HuskyFan
10-23-2011, 03:49 PM
Hey Guys,

I'm 100% completely new to hunting, never did it in my life, and was never raised around it, but I'm interested in trying it and for certain aspects it really interests me.

I like the idea of hunting to provide for myself and family, and I think it could be an invaluable skill to have in unpredicatable situations later in life. However I'm not sure I have it in me for the "sporting" aspect of it.

I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends. And I don't see this really any different than how we get our grocery store meats (maybe its even more humane in some ways?). But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things, and I'm curious if there are others out there that are the same way?

For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm curious if anyone else's hunting interests ever conflict with their personal morals/conscience? Or if others have a hard time with the "killing" aspect of hunting (as stupid as that might sound)?

Ryry4
10-23-2011, 03:59 PM
I've never had a moral dilemma about hunting. There are plenty of people that hunt for just meat, and that is totally fine. Personally I'd consider myself a trophy hunter and that's never bothered my at all. Do what you feel is right for yourself and enjoy every minute you spend in the outdoors.

On a side note, every predator that we trophy hunters harvests ensures that there are more elk, moose and deer for the meat hunters. :) We hunters help to keep a healthy balance of predator/prey. Too many predators and ungulate numbers take a nose dive.

huntinstuff
10-23-2011, 04:20 PM
There is no moral issue about it.

Hunting is collecting meat yourself.
Trophy hunting is collecting meat, and collecting the antlers or horns of the animal.
Shooting a wolf or bear for its fur is preferrable to me than buying a rug from China made by a 9 yr old.

No one says you have to shoot a trophy animal. Actually I prefer you dont. Increases my odds in getting one.

Buying meat at the store and hunting. One, the dirty work is done by someone else.
I prefer to collect my own. I support the local butcher, but I hardly rely on him

As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.

densa44
10-23-2011, 04:26 PM
I may have had a conflict until I saw coyotes kill and eat ALL my chickens and I don't know how many of our cats.

I now work very hard to kill all of them that I can.

Other than pests eat what you shoot, no moral conflict!

jaylow?
10-23-2011, 04:42 PM
i have such a moral battle in my head when im eating hot italian deer sausage , pepperoni , steaks , jerky and roasts. :lol:

HuskyFan
10-23-2011, 04:48 PM
As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.

Haha I like how you put that.

Still don't think I could shoot one, but it's good to keep things in perspective.

Morsky
10-23-2011, 04:49 PM
A rhetorical question when asked here, kinda like asking why people climb mountains on a mountain climbing form or why cyclists like biking across the province. Silly cyclists wasting all that energy for nadda!

I'm betting everyone here does it cause it's fun as hell, if the following pic does not evoke a sense of adventure, fun, accomplishment I'm not sure your built for the sport.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Bear_hunting_Kodiak_FWS.jpg

huntinstuff
10-23-2011, 04:54 PM
That picture is simply incredible

hal53
10-23-2011, 04:56 PM
X2!!!!...would like a copy of that!!!!.....open sights on the rifle too!!!...very nice!

eastcoast
10-23-2011, 04:56 PM
everybody has their own reason's/morals for hunting/not hunting what they want,I don't understand some stuff and I hunt things that other people don't,I say live and let live.

huntinstuff
10-23-2011, 04:56 PM
Haha I like how you put that.

Still don't think I could shoot one, but it's good to keep things in perspective.

And its perfectly fine to not shoot one. Your choice. Thats the beauty of hunting. You choose.
I wish you much success and enjoyment

lattery1
10-23-2011, 05:06 PM
Enjoy the CHEAP MEAT !!! I only trophy hunt to prolong the experience. After a few seasons of harvesting small bucks and does most of us start trying for the mature bucks just to have more days in the field. Then comes all the other equipment and the scouting trips. I t gets expensive if you get crazy about the big boys, but its my only vice:thinking-006:

Redfrog
10-23-2011, 05:15 PM
It's a constant tug of war trying to balance the good and bad of killing an animal. Coyotes for example. A lot of people have no issues with killing coyotes as the coyote preys on fawns and calves and domestic livestock. On the plus side for the coyote I struggle because after all they do eat cats.:sHa_shakeshout:

Moral issues and hunting go hand in hand, Nearly everyday someone on this forum is trying to tell others what is 'right'. The next day he's being told what is right by the ones he trid to save the day before.

Morals and ethics are things that are very personal and really only mean anything when they guide your conduct when there is no one around to witness your actions.

Straightgun
10-23-2011, 05:18 PM
As for the wolf scenario, a wolf is not a dog. As a matter of fact, a wolf will lure ypur dog away, hump it, kill it, and eat it within 15 minutes.


....wwhat, what do they want to do to fluffy? rape him?:scared:

Ryry4
10-23-2011, 05:19 PM
That picture is simply incredible

X2. Wow.

Morsky
10-23-2011, 05:25 PM
Enjoy the CHEAP MEAT !!!

LOL, I think our next moose will be at a cost of $200.00/pound considering gas, food, booze, travel time, equipment including campers, trucks, quads, butchering, and on and on....

huntinstuff
10-23-2011, 05:26 PM
....wwhat, what do they want to do to fluffy? rape him?:scared:

If his name is Fluffy, he probably deserves it .......

LongDraw
10-23-2011, 05:32 PM
The great thing about a moral dilemma is that if something does not fall within your morals then you don't have to do it.

CaberTosser
10-23-2011, 05:34 PM
I started out much like the OP; I had essentially no exposure to hunting until I was about 34. I did go with my uncle once when I was 12, but there was no game taken nor much on the instruction side of things. I'm not sure on the regs back then, but in hindsight it may have been out of season, but I know he was a sustenance hunter in the bush north of 100 Mile House BC. As you experience killing an animal for the first time it was a whole lot of mixed emotion; on one hand there's the euphoria for a good shot and having all your work culminate in one exciting moment, but that's counterbalanced by what I feel was some combination of sympathy and perhaps even a bit of remorse for having taken a life. It gets easier, but I think it's healthy to have had enough respect for the animal that you have some feelings for it upon having killed it. I know some who were raised on a ranch or who've killed a lot of gophers, etc may be a bit more casual about it than myself, but we all have perspectives and none are necessarily wrong. If you wind up spending much time hunting on a ranch, you'll likely learn that coyotes are not to be sympathized with, for they extend none themselves. If they happen across a calf being born they'll begin their feast before the animal is fully delivered.

I would go so far as to say I'm a reformed 'anti'. I used to be ignorant and uninformed about hunting, and while I still have plenty to learn and experience, at least I'm approaching it from a knowledgeable perspective now.
Shamefully, many years ago I laughed upon seeing a video online where a whitetail buck attacked a hunter; I no longer find it amusing these days.

Straightgun
10-23-2011, 05:46 PM
LOL, I think our next moose will be at a cost of $200.00/pound considering gas, food, booze, travel time, equipment including campers, trucks, quads, butchering, and on and on....

For me the meat is just the kicker. The enjoyment is the hunt. For that reason the meat is cheap.

savage shooter
10-23-2011, 05:48 PM
Spend some time on a farm and help with the butchering of farm animals.

You will become instantly desensitized.

Hunting is far more humane than some of things done on a farm in my experience.

sjemac
10-23-2011, 05:48 PM
My moral dilemma comes when I have to buy meat that I know never saw the sunlight in its entire short and miserable life.

I know we all can't raise and hunt our own meat but it sure makes me happy that I can.

One of my biggest thrills was shooting the wolf in my avatar. I don't think I will ever become a dedicated wolf (cougar or bear) hunter, but I'd like to hunt everything at least once so that I know what others talk about. Now to find that cougar.

savage shooter
10-23-2011, 06:11 PM
I should ad that you should look at some of the videos online regarding what natural predators do for their meat. I've seen one where a pack of coyotes attacked a calf and cow moose. The Cow was trying to defend the calf as much as it could and fought for a while trying to stamp on the coyotes. In the end, it stamped its own calf to death and then watched as the coyotes ate its calf.

There are many animals out there that eat their own offspring.

When duck hunting, walking around a pond just after daylight, I've seen piles of feathers from where other predators have gotten to the ducks first. It's just nature.

Each year, there are always far too many deer to survive the winter. They always over populated. Here are our options:

-Harvest and eat a certain number of them through a tag system so the others can live through the winter relatively comfortably.

-More deer suffer through the winter, none comfortably, with many dying slowly to predators, frostbite and eventually hypothermia and losing their fur from mal nutrition. I've seen that too. It's not pretty.

I feel that the deer I shoot and eat with a bullet through the heart or lungs die much faster and more humanely than through other predators or the horrible winter which, trust me, won't allow all those deer to survive.

The more you see in the world, the more you realize we are a part of it. Many of us are very separated through civilization and technology that we lose sight of this.

Reconnect. Visit a slaughter house. You will lose all 'moral' concerns with regard to hunting.

SkytopBrewster
10-23-2011, 06:12 PM
For me the meat is just the kicker. The enjoyment is the hunt. For that reason the meat is cheap.

Yeah, the meat is great but really just an excuse to get out and enjoy the hunt be it with friends, family or just alone. Enjoy the outdoors, great stress relief. Its easy just to go out and shoot the first doe you see and get your meat, and there is nothing wrong with that. I prefer to drag it oit going for the big boys and if you dont get that shot, take whatever you can and fill the freezer. But to tell you the truth it would be much cheaper to fill the freezer from safeway, but then again theres nothing like wild game and the feeling of providing for the family the old fashioned way.

gunslinger
10-23-2011, 06:20 PM
A rhetorical question when asked here, kinda like asking why people climb mountains on a mountain climbing form or why cyclists like biking across the province. Silly cyclists wasting all that energy for nadda!

I'm betting everyone here does it cause it's fun as hell, if the following pic does not evoke a sense of adventure, fun, accomplishment I'm not sure your built for the sport.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Bear_hunting_Kodiak_FWS.jpg

That is one of the best photos i think i have ever seen, One time i swung a book grizzly over my shoulder with the head still in it and it dwarfed my head, but that picture has everything hunting is all about. What a bear.

Forest Techer
10-23-2011, 07:03 PM
This thread has been hijacked by that amazing picture! Do you have it framed? if you have any details on It shoot me a pm
Thanks for posting it

Dr. Phil A
10-23-2011, 08:15 PM
"For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I have two dogs and they are my buds. They provide me with a lot of enjoyment but it has never stopped me from pounding coyotes. Shot four on Saturday morning. I know what they can do to livestock and pets.

I won't shoot them in the spring or summer but once fall hits it is game on.

Newfie01
10-23-2011, 09:01 PM
Personally I am a fairly new hunter and i really enjoy it. I am quite the fan of wild game and the satisfaction that comes from it. I try to use what i can from the animal, I attempted twice to tan hides. Hopefully il the the chance to try again this year, maybe do a european mount if i get a buck. I dont find it hard at all to shoot a deer or a bird, etc. The only thing i feel is recoil and satisfaction of a good hunt.

Twobucks
10-23-2011, 09:09 PM
I think the fact you even ask the question shows your heart's in the right place. I feel just fine about hunting, but I always feel at least a little sad for whatever I've killed. But I grew up in a hunting house - fall was dad's religion.

If you want to want to do some reading - here's two authors I've enjoyed. THey both fill the freezer every year, but they've thought a lot about what it is they do.

Ted Kerasote - "Bloodties" - read anything of his, but I've read this one twice and I'll read it again. It contrasts four different hunting groups - including some militant animal rights activists. Oh, and an elk dies in the end.

Richard Nelson - "Heart and Blood" - the language is a little over the top sometimes, but study this and you can take on any "anti" argument. It is basically a history of deer and our relationship with the species. It starts with ice age hunters and goes right through today.

I believe you shouldn't take too much joy in killing, but there's also no shame.

Tundra Monkey
10-23-2011, 09:11 PM
If his name is Fluffy, he probably deserves it .......

THANK YOU :happy0180:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Incredible pic Morsky.....thank you for posting it .

tm

altaberg
10-23-2011, 09:34 PM
Why should I have a problem with hunting?

Two things, the deer I have killed in recent years had a good life.
The ate well based on the shape they were in, lived on pretty nice crown land and had probably more (good) sex than some people I know.
They also weren't fed with growth hormones and antibiotics.
They died a quick and fast death in the prime of life.
Ever been to a pig farm?

Second, I quote David Petersen from a book on Hunting Philosophy that sums it up nicely:
"... a self-evident biological fact that hunting's harshest critics fail to grasp - or at least to acknowledge - is that a ..need to be hunted is built into all evolved prey species. Without the perpetual continuation of the precise sort of mental and physical exercise provided by evasion and predation, our spectacular prey species, so beautifully crafted by the artful knife of natural predation, would soon devolve into mere thin shadows of their wild selves"

In other words, deer are beautiful, agile, fast animals with keen senses BECAUSE they are hunted. Let them not be hunted for five generations and see what will happen.

and from the same source:
" Predation and evasion comprise a sacred game, without which no living thing would be the same - without which no living thing would even be. In a world without predation - where no living organism sucks sustennance from other living organisms - there would be no adaptive evolution, no food, no quality control via culling of the least fit, and no you and me."

I spent hours today walking cut lines, blocks and old logging roads and saw quite a few deer. Only one ( and a moose for which I didn;t have a tag) stood still long enough to contemplate a shot. I had a choice between a head shot and a "Texas heart shot" in high grass and passed. All the other deer I stalked or spooked were too quick. That's hunting and I still had a great day.

Speckle55
10-23-2011, 09:47 PM
:thinking-006:I am doing what my forefathers have done for generations back to the Caveman .. i put some of the meat on my table and fish /birds .. while i do kill predators i eat bear and use the hides of wolfs/coyotes and other animals as garments .horns as buttons and others parts a jewelery etc

perspective = 1 wolf will kill 1 ungulate every 7 days if it is in Alberta and in Cariboo range that means threatend species.. if the pack is small the Alpha female will drop more eggs and have more pups if feed is good.. we sent Wolfs to USA the next four years would have those areas back to normal pack size for those areas where the Wolfs were taken from..

Years ago in Jasper town site and Snaring camp ground two coyote's attacked two children in one year .. the first a couple of fisherman saved child about 4 after he was hit and tried to take him down will he was with his older sister.. the second was a two year old in Jasper townsite that was playing in his back yard and was grabbed and it was trying to get him over a 2 ft fence when his mom came out to save.. This year at Pocohantas a cougar attack a dog on a leash and took dog .

in the Hinton /Edson area 4 Cougars were shot by hunters when they were stalked this year and the CO officer put out a warning to hunters to be aware

every year around Alberta Wolfs and coyotes etc kill dogs and cats and Farmers calfs chickens horses cattle ..

some hunting of predators keeps natures balance and its does not affected the whole balance.. the same as hunting.


PS please do not step on the GRASS i hear the Grass and Bugs and Organism Screaming as you kill them :sad0147:

Food for Thought
David

Albertadiver
10-23-2011, 10:11 PM
This is something I struggle with. As a boy, my family hunted on the farm. When they moved into the city, my dad stopped hunting and my exposure to it ceased.

This year, for some reason I'm struggling with who I am as a hunter a fair bit.

Fast forward 15years, I decided I wanted to try it myself. I've hunted now for 5 years, and here's what I love.

I love being in the outdoors, hiking, exploring, seeing nature at its finest and sometimes harshest. I love looking for the animals I hunt. I enjoy shooting, and improving my skills. I HATE killing. I struggle everytime I pull the trigger on an animal I'm about to shoot for food. I hate seeing a deer take it's last breath or suffer. So, I try my hardest to do one shot, one kill. Ideally a 'bang - drop'. My first deer was a gut shot, and my second deer I blew its front leg off. After that, I tried my hardest (and so far, successfully) to humanely put the deer down as quickly as I could.

Fact of the matter is, I love meat. If I can order a burger or a steak, I should have no problem shooting and eating an animal. In fact, I find great satisfaction in enjoying a deer steak or sausages for an animal I harvested. Far more healthy than anything I'd buy at a store.

I love meat, and I really love venison. I'm looking forward to my first elk or moose meat as well. I'm also looking forward to my first goose and duck kills as well.

I will never kill an animal just for a trophy. My personal feelings stop me at that point. But I do think it's pretty cool if I harvest an animal with big antlers etc. provided that I utilize it to the full.

Having grown up on a farm, I would shoot a coyote, and I've killed thousands of gophers over the years, but I just don't relish the idea of killing. So if I ran across a wolf out in the wild, I probably won't pull the trigger on it. But I certainly will not stop a hunting partner if they choose to do so. I know my thoughts are evolving over the years, so who knows how I'll feel eventually.

Long story short, I think an ethical hunter will always have some sort of a 'moral dillema'. The time when a hunter stops caring about the actions they take (or don't take) is the time when I don't think that person should be hunting anymore.

thumper
10-24-2011, 09:18 AM
Having started hunting in my early 20s (I'm 56 now), I'm now in the exact same space as Albertadiver.
In addition, I like accepting the responsibility of killing and processing what I eat, and I enjoy the entire hunting experience - planning, preparation, scouting, hunting, processing game (or not!) and putting gear away, daydreaming about next year!
I also don't trophy hunt or hunt bears/wolves/cougars, but am happy to bring home big antlers when I can and am glad for others that like to hunt predators.

walking buffalo
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Husky Fan, These are all great books to help answer your questions about hunting.....:)




Ted Kerasote - "Bloodties"

Richard Nelson - "Heart and Blood"


In Defense of Hunting: Yesterday and Today - James A. Swan

Heartsblood: Hunting, Spirituality, and Wildness in America - David Petersen

A Hunter's Heart: Honest Essays on Blood Sport - David Petersen

Twobucks
10-24-2011, 10:37 PM
A Hunter's Heart: Honest Essays on Blood Sport - David Petersen [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes! Also an excellent book. Haven't read the other two yet - thanks for getting them on my reading list.

And Albertadiver - X2. Nicely said...

Rugerb
09-09-2012, 07:12 PM
I think that you should hold true to your values and ideals. If hunting is something you believe you would like to try and you don't want to be as critical as to "trophy" or not then that is just fine.
If you believe that hunting one animal over another (for whatever reason) is something that would just not suit you, that's fine too.
Hunting, for whatever the reason, is generally an individual sport. Yes you can share it with family and friends, but the moments you see are the moments that really only you remember.
For whatever reason you get outdoors, just plain enjoy them ......if you find that you love it as much as most of the honest fellows on this forum do, remember to save them for your kids as well as the rest of us....

Tow Bow
09-09-2012, 08:31 PM
I'm with you 100% Husky. Actually, it sounds like our stories are basically the same, down to our age.

I'd rather hunt for my meat for many of the reasons previously mentioned but the trophies will be donated to others. I may have been 'anti' at some point of my life but I've never been blind to the reality of human consumption. I've watched a few slaughter house videos and to be frank, have no intention on buying store meat again if I can avoid it.

Now here is where I will likely differ from most and may even make some enemies. Thats fine by me. If you are too sensitive to other peoples perspectives, you should stop reading now. That is the advice given to 'antis', is it not?

I am 99% sure I will never hunt a predator. I have my reasons and they are pretty basic. I don't want to perpetuate an argument but I will give my rebuttals to the previously mentioned reasons to hunt predators.

1: They eat dogs and cats.

Have you ever watched your dog or cat outside in an uncontrolled setting? Isn't there a blurb about not harassing wildlife? Keep your dog where it should be and the chances are slim it will ever be attacked.

2: They eat game.

Yes... thats correct. It's called an 'ecosystem'. A trophy mounted on gyproc is not typically considered part of that cycle.

3: Furs. Well.... I'll admit... it would be pretty damn cool to have a wolf and/or bear coat and blankets BUT.... we derive enough materials from our current oil productions to comfortably fit me (and you) with synthetic clothes, which IMO are more effective anyways. I use a lot of bike clothes in non-bike circumstances and you'd be hard pressed to convince me otherwise. If I ever had to go to war with a mountain tribe, I might reconsider for psychological reasons.

If I felt that killing a grizzly made me more of man than I am from other aspects of my life, maybe it would be a turn on but where I come from, the dangerous predators are usually less than 200lbs and wouldn't mount very nicely. Maybe the idea of a real predator being alive is what appeals to my merciful side.

I also don't think I will be hunting birds. Actually... that comes from looking at some of the pictures on this site. A whole truck full in one day? Really? Doesn't seem sustainable when you consider the numbers.

I pretty much refuse to go through bear/wolf threads because I've done well in preparing to hunt so far and don't want to get turned off.

Coyotes are kinda so-so. Not a fan but they cause me no problems and so I don't (so far) have any real desire to hunt them. I don't see them as dogs or even dog-like. My dogs have always hated them but none the less, even coyote don't like coyote meat. Now, I am tempted to go help a farmer clear his acres in order to get a little more experience but in that regard I guess I see myself as offering a service that is needed.

I think that for every action that can be lawfully committed, the consideration must be made of 'what if everyone did it'.

What if every Albertan took bag limit on bears this year? Same question applies to EVERYTHING, including fossilized rocks in a stream bed.

I'm not attacking anyone else, just drawing my own lines and I hope i haven't burnt any bridges but if so, we likely wouldn't have gotten along very well anyways.

Lefty-Canuck
09-09-2012, 08:41 PM
^^^^^

Ethics are a personal thing and most likely should remain as such....

LC

winger7mm
09-09-2012, 08:42 PM
My latest incident with hunting and morals. I had taken a pic of our goose shoot today the harvest was hauled with my truck. After we were finished up I had placed all the geese on the tail gate in the typical stance on facebook. The first reply I got was "Thats FU#*ING DISGRACFUL" by an old friend, before all the congrats on a great hunt. Shes not a hunter and all that stuff. I asked her if the trees hug her back or if she ever gets sap in her hair lol, prob not the best answer but most definatly the best pg rated answer I could give lol. If you have an issue taking an animals life for food, well have fun eating bread and jam. IMO i would rather by far eat a happy and "cute" animal then one that lives a horrible life in a cage just big enough for its body and forced to eat food and injected with hormones, antibiotics, steriods and water. Think about it, store bought chickens are butchered at in between 3-6months of age, where as 10 years ago they had to live to an adult stage to get to those sizes. Cant wait till I fill my freezer with wild meat, good bye meat department!!!

Tow Bow
09-09-2012, 09:25 PM
^^^^^

Ethics are a personal thing and most likely should remain as such....

LC

I couldn't disagree more but not interested in an argument either. Thanks for the advice but I believe exploring ethics is what develops sustainable practices, in all circumstances. My (rather lengthy) opinion of that statement would probably be taken so far out of context that I'd rather keep it to myself. :)

catnthehat
09-09-2012, 09:30 PM
X2!!!!...would like a copy of that!!!!.....open sights on the rifle too!!!...very nice!

Very European looking for sure, but I think it's North American, Kromer hat, and a (maybe Chuck can help me out ) Model 70 with a receiver sight?!:confused:
As far as a moral dilemma goes, nope, I have no worries about it at all, killing some and eating it ? Nothing wrong with that at all.
Shooting a critter like a coyote?
Nope.... !
Cat

happy honker
09-09-2012, 09:41 PM
Honestly, I still feel a bit off every time I walk up to an animal i've killed.
Then, I quickly get into work mode, as I feel strongly that the better I can make use of the animal, and not waste a thing( I don't eat tripe, but I eat the organs and use the hide)...and the faster I can get the meat to cool, and ensure it is as good a meat you'll find anywhere when it hits the table, the better I feel.
Speaking of that, we pulled about 50 ripe roma tomatoes out of the garden today, planned on making a spaghetti sauce with moose burger....went to the freezer, and it looks like I've used all of last years moose.
I had to use beef burger, but I'm sure the sauce will turn out fine anyway.
Time to hit the bush and restock the freezer. It'll be deer this year as I've got to wait a year or two to get lucky with the moose draw again.
I love cooking with wild meat.
I love hunting.

leo
09-09-2012, 10:04 PM
:confused:

Pincherguy
09-09-2012, 10:16 PM
LOL, I think our next moose will be at a cost of $200.00/pound considering gas, food, booze, travel time, equipment including campers, trucks, quads, butchering, and on and on....

Thats how I look at it too, nothin' cheap about it. On that note I am not fussy about what I shoot, if it's going to eat well its down. Actually got:scared0018:my moose draw and I hope I can get a young bull. As far as the rest of the critters go, I only shoot the ones that are sick so I put them out of their misery. Man look at all those coyotes, they are all sick, put em down.

xtreme hunter10
09-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Hey Guys,

I'm 100% completely new to hunting, never did it in my life, and was never raised around it, but I'm interested in trying it and for certain aspects it really interests me.

I like the idea of hunting to provide for myself and family, and I think it could be an invaluable skill to have in unpredicatable situations later in life. However I'm not sure I have it in me for the "sporting" aspect of it.

I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends. And I don't see this really any different than how we get our grocery store meats (maybe its even more humane in some ways?). But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things, and I'm curious if there are others out there that are the same way?

For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm curious if anyone else's hunting interests ever conflict with their personal morals/conscience? Or if others have a hard time with the "killing" aspect of hunting (as stupid as that might sound)?

Do you eat meat? Do you eat cows, pigs, sheep, goats? Those animals were killed. Do you have a moral dilemma with that? If the answer is no.. then why would you have a dilemma with doing it yourself? Unless you are unsure if you can take a life... Try it out, see if you are able. I know a lot of first time hunter hesitate a lot to pull that trigger. its a big moral responsibilty once that trigger is pulled. Its not like fishing where you can throw the fish back. You have to dress it, butcher it and process it, then of course eat it ( which is always the 2nd best part in my opinion. My favorite is getting it in the sights and harvesting it.) man vs wild. maybe its just me. if you are gonna shoot it and then feel bad and gonna leave it there... then no, hunting isnt for you. I would go out with a "experienced" hunter find someone who has more than 2 seasons under their belt and let them show you the ropes. There are lots and lots of regulations and information to take in. some of it isnt always the easiest to understand. That is my advice for you. Go out and take one animal. If you are not hooked for life on the whole experience... hunting is just not for you.

Coho911
09-09-2012, 11:41 PM
CaberTosser, as I was reading the posts prior to yours, I was trying to word out how I feel about it - You said it EXACTLY as I feel as well. it can be a bit guilt infused as with deer/elk/moose/bears are just minding their own business and suddenly - BANG ! But it makes me respect what I eat SOOOOO much more and has made me even more of a conservationist for the animals I hunt & wildlife on the whole.

With regards to predators - I am happy to help control the coyote population & wolfs if required - but from a conservation point of view. When you see your hunting as part of the wildlife ECOSYSTEM, it feels pretty good. I educate people who don't hunt about keeping our wild zones healthy, and It keeps me appreciating where food comes from (its not: "a steak comes fro a store !" its "something dies for me to be enjoying this- don't waste any of it.")

But thats just me. I won't shoot for the sake of an emotional self pat on the back for how awesome I am - I hunt with purpose :)

I started out much like the OP; I had essentially no exposure to hunting until I was about 34. I did go with my uncle once when I was 12, but there was no game taken nor much on the instruction side of things. I'm not sure on the regs back then, but in hindsight it may have been out of season, but I know he was a sustenance hunter in the bush north of 100 Mile House BC. As you experience killing an animal for the first time it was a whole lot of mixed emotion; on one hand there's the euphoria for a good shot and having all your work culminate in one exciting moment, but that's counterbalanced by what I feel was some combination of sympathy and perhaps even a bit of remorse for having taken a life. It gets easier, but I think it's healthy to have had enough respect for the animal that you have some feelings for it upon having killed it. I know some who were raised on a ranch or who've killed a lot of gophers, etc may be a bit more casual about it than myself, but we all have perspectives and none are necessarily wrong. If you wind up spending much time hunting on a ranch, you'll likely learn that coyotes are not to be sympathized with, for they extend none themselves. If they happen across a calf being born they'll begin their feast before the animal is fully delivered.

I would go so far as to say I'm a reformed 'anti'. I used to be ignorant and uninformed about hunting, and while I still have plenty to learn and experience, at least I'm approaching it from a knowledgeable perspective now.
Shamefully, many years ago I laughed upon seeing a video online where a whitetail buck attacked a hunter; I no longer find it amusing these days.

Dunezilla
09-10-2012, 05:41 AM
LOL, I think our next moose will be at a cost of $200.00/pound considering gas, food, booze, travel time, equipment including campers, trucks, quads, butchering, and on and on....

Now that is true unless you own your own land or you hunt some land close to your home. That way you save on fuel.

You butcher it yourself & wrap it then you save more money.

Otherwise it may be cheaper to go to a grocery store, or buy a cow directly from a farmer who will have it cut & wrapped for you.

Still there is nothing like eating a healthy animal you bagged yourself.

winged1
09-10-2012, 07:04 AM
Hey Guys,

I'm 100% completely new to hunting, never did it in my life, and was never raised around it, but I'm interested in trying it and for certain aspects it really interests me.

I like the idea of hunting to provide for myself and family, and I think it could be an invaluable skill to have in unpredicatable situations later in life. However I'm not sure I have it in me for the "sporting" aspect of it.

I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends. And I don't see this really any different than how we get our grocery store meats (maybe its even more humane in some ways?). But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things, and I'm curious if there are others out there that are the same way?

For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm curious if anyone else's hunting interests ever conflict with their personal morals/conscience? Or if others have a hard time with the "killing" aspect of hunting (as stupid as that might sound)?



I've hunted most of my life, and I've questioned it's appeal every year I've gone out. If you read some of the fine articles on the development of a hunter, you may understand that as one matures in life, so does thier outlook on participating in the sport. But don't fret. As I've discovered, hunting doesn't always mean downing an animal. It's a lifestyle that puts one into nature at whatever level you choose. Enjoy the interaction and develop a relationship that you find comfortable. I've smiled many times after lowering the rifle and watching a fine animal carry on, and over the years, I often reflect on the friendships and hardships that the sport provides.

Dunezilla
09-10-2012, 07:10 AM
Do you eat meat? Do you eat cows, pigs, sheep, goats? Those animals were killed. Do you have a moral dilemma with that? If the answer is no.. then why would you have a dilemma with doing it yourself? Unless you are unsure if you can take a life... Try it out, see if you are able. I know a lot of first time hunter hesitate a lot to pull that trigger. its a big moral responsibilty once that trigger is pulled.

Man vs wild.

Go out and take one animal. If you are not hooked for life on the whole experience... hunting is just not for you.

Meat from the store ....."Those animals were killed" but by someone else. The average person does not see it done, or how it is done, & so they can eat it. The messy work was done by others.

However whether or not a person can go out hunting & then (take a life of a wild animal) is another thing altogether. That is for them to decide & no one else. No matter what we say this individual or any individual that wants to hunt for the 1st time needs to realize they need to (take a life)....an animal does not really want to give its life up, we must (take it). All hunters needed to make that decision on their own just as this individual or any individual that wants to hunt for the 1st time needs to do.

"Man vs wild"

The way I look at "man vs wild" is that I need to try & out wit them (wildlife). While on the ground & getting within 18 meters of a deer, moose, or elk without being detected is a challenge. To get within 9 meters while on the ground is rewarding. To kneel & freeze like a rock & not move a muscle when you see a young buck just 18 meters to your left but forward & it did not detect you yet & you watch it & then it walks across the lease road (on which your kneeling & now it is only 9 meters in front of you & it stopped but does not think the thing kneeling there is a threat & so it moves a bit & begins eating buds from the bushes & gets a bit closer. You were hoping that a doe was following him or somewhere around but there was not, & so you make yourself known & it runs.

That for me is fun, rewarding, & challenging. I cannot get enough of that. Like Brad Fenson said in his article "catching a deer flat-footed and unaware of your presence is extremely rewarding and once you done it successfully, you'll want to experience it again" ......& again, & again.

I guess if we say "man verse nature" then that opens more adventures while it the act of hunting.

"Go out and take one animal. If you are not hooked for life on the whole experience... hunting is just not for you."

The person who started the thread could go out bird hunting first & shed blood & see how you feel. If you handle that then go after a deer next & that does not detect your presence & take it's life & gut it & then see how you are.

Then take another deer that is looking at you eye to eye & take it's life & if you can handle that then continue hunting. You could do this 1st if you want.

Just my thoughts on this

duffy4
09-10-2012, 07:59 AM
Hey Guys,

I'm 100% completely new to hunting, never did it in my life, and was never raised around it, but I'm interested in trying it and for certain aspects it really interests me.

I like the idea of hunting to provide for myself and family, and I think it could be an invaluable skill to have in unpredicatable situations later in life. However I'm not sure I have it in me for the "sporting" aspect of it.

I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends. And I don't see this really any different than how we get our grocery store meats (maybe its even more humane in some ways?). But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things, and I'm curious if there are others out there that are the same way?

For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think. I have a hard time even looking at some of the pics on this forum for that reason (the wolf thing really gets to me for some reason, maybe because I'm a dog lover?). However I respect the choice that some people make by doing it, and I have no problem with what others do as long as its legal.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm curious if anyone else's hunting interests ever conflict with their personal morals/conscience? Or if others have a hard time with the "killing" aspect of hunting (as stupid as that might sound)?


I think some of the responses have missed your point. You say: I could see myself hunting for deer/elk/moose etc, and enjoying the huge amount of food it would provide for my family and friends.
So that shows you have no problem with hunting to acquire meat.
That is what motivates many hunters as well as the enjoyment of the activity and sharing the experience with friends and family.

You say:But I don't really see myself enjoying the "trophy" side of things,...For instance going wolf/bear/cougar hunting just for the sake of killing it really would bother me I think.

So it is not "trophy" hunting for deer or moose or elk that concerns you it is for the "non-meat" kind of hunting (though black bear meat is very good and it is for the meat that I hunt black bears as well as the hides)

And you are not criticizing others for doing so, just saying it may not be for you.

I have shot wolves for their hides and coyotes as well. But I do not "hate" those animals and consider them "vermin" as some seem to. They are predators and do what they must to survive.

When you decide to kill something there must be a good reason for it. If you do not see a reason to kill a wolf then you don't have to. Killing one because other people do it and you want to fit in is probably not a good reason to.

Yesterday I saw a small hawk chasing a chickadee. At first I hoped the chickadee would escape the hawk but then I thought the hungry hawk needed to eat. There is no good or bad, fair or unfair in such a situation. Man should not dis predators because they are predators.

Rackmastr
09-10-2012, 08:01 AM
I face moral decisions all the time surrounding hunting....

Case in point, today is opening day of Deer/Elk/Sheep/Goat/Etc season here in BC and I'm at home due to a moral decision!!! Haha.

Okotokian
09-10-2012, 08:26 AM
Oh boy, the mother of all flaming threads.:scared0018:

Winch101
09-10-2012, 10:46 AM
I agree with Oko...this should get interesting .
Some very good posts so far on the rationale behind hunting game animals .

Now that I have had 50 plus years of hunting in the prairies ;
one of the things I realise that hunting has always given me the opportunity
to police my own morals and judgement . I certainly have had opinions about others over the years .But really I can have dominion only over mine.

Now its just about getting out with the dog...I hate shoot and waste .
Lately I have had friends in their sixties , lifelong hunters .They've stopped because they are not interested in eating what they shoot . That is an honest perspective , I feel.

I do feel an emotion when I shoot something wild ....more respect for the animal . I dont feel bad because I missed ....and the prey escaped.
Thats the balance of this sport.I guess I am torn now.I was so rabid as a youngster , i lived and died by success in the field ...For many years now not so much....

I think as the top animal on the food chain we can allow ourselves
some intelligent perspective on the subject. Not so defensive but more persuasive and rational . My twobits W101

Trackdays
09-10-2012, 11:28 AM
I agree with many post in this thread. I would rather process my own meat and know its clean and natural then get store bought meat. Im not saying I never buy meat from the store, because i do. But i try to eat wild game as much as I can.

Matt L.
09-10-2012, 11:32 AM
When I had my first deer in the crosshairs, I wondered if I could pull the trigger for about five seconds, then I can't really explain it any other way but that instinct took over and I pressed the trigger. Maybe the old instinct to hunt is stronger in some people than others, doesn't make you any less of a hunter in my eyes. You're not being able to see yourself shooting species is your choice and I respect that.

Mike_W
09-10-2012, 12:51 PM
There should always be a respect for the animal you have harvested if not then you have a moral issue in another way.

I often consider what I have done or will do and the fact that I just killed an animal and I pay my respects in my own way. To be honest I usually dont think about it much when I pick up a pack of meat from the butchers.
Yes hunting and taking an animals life may be a reality check but IMO I have much more appreciation for the animal and the meat and thats the way it should be.

Mike

jacobin
09-10-2012, 02:05 PM
My latest incident with hunting and morals. I had taken a pic of our goose shoot today the harvest was hauled with my truck. After we were finished up I had placed all the geese on the tail gate in the typical stance on facebook. The first reply I got was "Thats FU#*ING DISGRACFUL" by an old friend, before all the congrats on a great hunt. Shes not a hunter and all that stuff. I asked her if the trees hug her back or if she ever gets sap in her hair lol, prob not the best answer but most definatly the best pg rated answer I could give lol. If you have an issue taking an animals life for food, well have fun eating bread and jam. IMO i would rather by far eat a happy and "cute" animal then one that lives a horrible life in a cage just big enough for its body and forced to eat food and injected with hormones, antibiotics, steriods and water. Think about it, store bought chickens are butchered at in between 3-6months of age, where as 10 years ago they had to live to an adult stage to get to those sizes. Cant wait till I fill my freezer with wild meat, good bye meat department!!!

It is actually 42 days. That is the age a meat chicken lives before it is butchered. At least the commercially raised ones anyways. If you buy from a farm direct who is growing the heritage breeds then those birds are older as there genetics haven't been altered to make them such fast growers. Also, some birds are slaughtered a little earlier, however, most will never make it to 7 weeks. I have seen commercial birds grown to, I believe 8 weeks, and these birds looked like watermelons on toothpicks. It was insane to see how big these birds got.

My wife asked me once how old chickens live, she is a city girl. I told her 6 weeks if it was a meat bird and a year if it was a layer. She then rephrased the question to mean how old would they live if we didn't slaughter them.:thinking-006: Still don't know the answer to this question.

aulrich
09-10-2012, 02:27 PM
I also don't think I will be hunting birds. Actually... that comes from looking at some of the pictures on this site. A whole truck full in one day? Really? Doesn't seem sustainable when you consider the numbers.


Google snow goose populations you might recant that statement, and book a spring hunt as a moral obligation. And other waterfowl are not hurting

For myself there needs to be a reason, for the food, fur, pest (protecting food crop, livestock, property ) or protection.

But I personally don't understand the whole "do you feel bad after a kill" thing to me it is a statment of the ignorant, the life of one entity is only perpetuated by the death of another, you know the food chain thing.

So do I feel guilty that I am alive? No! and I know that every breath I take has been bought by the death of another being either directly as the pig that was made into ham or in-directly in land lost to grain production, to make the bread of my sandwich.

270WinMag
09-10-2012, 02:55 PM
HuskyFan, You should also check out some videos on YouTube on how to field dress your Moose, Elk or Deer. Just to give you an idea of what you are in for after the kill.

Tow Bow
09-10-2012, 03:07 PM
Recant the statement that if everyone in Alberta filled a pickup full of them that it wouldn't be sustainable? Not likely. As it stands, i'm sure it's not a problem.

I would say the moral dilemma/guilt of killing to eat comes from the knowledge that a grocery store somewhere is throwing out a ton of meat a year that did not sell.

I've had to kill on several occasions for mercy. When I had to put my dog down..... it altered me. I mean permanently. The situation wasn't as simple as taking a walk with a gun.

Aside from fish, I have yet to kill to eat. I was going to say that killing a deer to eat wouldn't bother me if I know I can pick the right one but isn't that an odd statement? Kind of like playing god i guess.

I could go on but I think I've made my point.