Pronghorm Outfitter Tags for 2012

[elkhunter11]

Not that it is going to help the pronghorn population this year, or in any way convince me that our present government could care less about our Alberta resident hunters, but I just received a reply from Frank Oberle, our new minister. He informs me that due to many e-mails from concerned Alberta hunters, the SRD will be meeting with APOS to discuss reducing the number of pronghorn outfitter allocations for 2012. For some reason, I am doubtful that the outfitter allocations will be reduced by over 90% like the Alberta Resident tag numbers were.In all honesty, I am expecting a small reduction, just to say that the tag numbers were reduced in response to our concerns, but I am thinking that money still means more to our government than our game populations. Only time will tell.

[NIKON]

The old mighty dollar, seems to play a role in alot of the higher up decisions that's for sure..... Hopefully the Antelope numbers rebound in the next few years and this doesn't become an issue

Nikon

[elkhunter11]

It already is an issue, the longer the pronghorn numbers remain lower than normal,the more of an issue it will become.

[NIKON]

Yah Agreed, and only allowing 30 TAGS FOR 102/118 they may as well close it outfitters included

NIKON

[sheephunter]

Just to play Devil's advocate elk.....I understand you would like to see NR tags cut along with resident tags but would you also support an increase in outfitter tags in years where resident tags were increased. The reason I ask is because if you take the five year average for the past five years, the outfitters actually received a very low percentage compared to residents. I guess a person should be careful what they ask for because this could actually end up increasing the number of outfitter tags in the long run. Just something to consider.

[packhuntr]

Once again boys, rather than turning on your own (hunters in general, like some knew was going to happen LOL) why didnt people call out those responsible for pizz poor management and WAY TOO HIGH tag numbers on pronghorn for too long. It was sickening and unbelievably embarrasing to watch, easier to completely turn a blind eye boys till shes a wreck? It wasnt the outfitters that were nuking them. They were about the only ones fighting saying there are WAY TOO MANY antelope being killed here, somethings gotta give. There were 3 winters of die offs, SRD acknowledged last winter,, thats it, everything else was a figement of everyones imagination. They kept hammering the poor little ba******. You boys think your doing yourselves a big favor here but your not, this is a double edged knife. Drive out the outfitters with antelope allocations and you will soon find out that there is NO ONE IN THE PROVINCE fighting for these antelope on a day to day basis. Any other stake holders going after SRD for answers boys?? Now I guess we get to watch the AFGA and SRD and the ACA join up and say, gee, what the hell happened here Jim A.... Gee, I dont f***** know guys, what are we gonna do Kim??? Impressive stuff... Yup, we're paying for this...

[sheephunter]

Either that or maybe it's a good thing we went into last winter with such low numbers other wise who knows how many antelope we might of lost. Always two ways to look at it I guess. Maybe the bios came out looking like heros on this one. Just something else to consider.

[Don K]

Going into a bad winterbwith low numbers? OMG?:sHa_sarcasticlol:
I guess we are even more blessed this year!:sign0161:

[sheephunter]

Well I'm not a bio so it's just a guess but I do know a thing or two about feeding cows. I know if I had 100 bales and it had to last the winter and I started with 50 cows, I'd likely have no cows left at the end of the winter. Now if I had 10 cows, I'd still likely have 10 left. Most ranchers base their herd size on the amount of feed they have during tough years and not years like this where grass and feed is super abundant. I suspect wildlife managers do the same. I'm just thinking out loud...perhaps I'm wrong. I always thought that was the reason for managing herd numbers though...for tough winters.

I'm not sure if you remember the winnters of 1996/97 and again in 1997/98.....things were pretty grim along the eaast slopes and in the mountains in particular but east central Alberta as well. It took a while but numbers bounced back despite two brutal winters. I suspect they will again. Nature is resiliant.

[Don K]

I'm surevthe numbers can bounce back with proper management... Let's just hope the tag numbers reflect the deer numbers province wide. Sup tags need to go, or be cut way back in lots of zones.
I'd say the feed is there, took my daughter out today and we were laughing as she was lost in the grass! There's spots it's over my head! (6'2"). Most of the province had a good year grass wise, so they should be ok there. It's the cold and preds that will have an impact. There's a lot of them and they need to eat too.
I'd say referencing your cow analogy, if deer where 'cows', we're sitting with about 4 cows, not 100, so we should be fine...

[sheephunter]

Ya, if we don't get deep or crusted snow this abundance of feed should help. I suspect we'll see a further reduction in tags in some zones as well now that bios have a more accurate picture of population numbers. I guess in the long run, the hunter harvest is but a small portion of the mortality. I don't think if we would have had higher numbers going into last winter that we'd have came out of it with higher numbers. Quite possibly the opposite. If you remember feed was not as abundant last fall. I know cows were moved from their current pastures a month or so earlier last year.

[packhuntr]

Im not sure I agree with you DonK. Its snow thats the killer for open country wintering animals, more precisely snow removal. Cold is not an issue they are built to withstand it. Another thing Don, and I see it with everyone, guys are angry with the presence of predators and it drives me nuts. I see no issue in coyotes going big game hunter in the winter and killing deer and antelope, we need them too. This whole thing guys got goin on about them killing thier ungulates is horseradish. If we make sure we are managing ungulates properly, some predatory loss is not a problem. When things are in the toilet and guys are quick to blame a consumptive group that is in actual need of the resource,, desiring removal of that competetive species is crazy talk. It is not the predator's fault... The older I get the less faith I have that things will be ok down the road boys.

[ishootbambi]

id agree that prairie predators arent a big deal. coyotes arent very good at killing big game....they just are the cleanup crew. wolves and cats however sure are a big issue in some areas.

[packhuntr]

I think you're underestimating the lowly old coyote Ishootbambi. Ive witnessed some amazing things on these plains and frozen river bottoms.

[sheephunter]

id agree that prairie predators arent a big deal. coyotes arent very good at killing big game....they just are the cleanup crew. wolves and cats however sure are a big issue in some areas.

Actually the greatest source of antelope fawn mortality is coyotes. I suspect eagles are a close second. That's very well documented. I suspect in may be for prairie mule deer as well.

[packhuntr]

Eagles, really? Hmmm, yet to hear tell of, or witness it. Now that ya mention it there would be no question in my mind.

[Don K]

If the snows not crusted to bad the deer can forage fine. If there's a crust it's another story. The yotes do take a lot of deer definitely, especially fawns in spring.

[sheephunter]

Eagles, really? Hmmm, yet to hear tell of, or witness it. Now that ya mention it there would be no question in my mind.

Yup, there was one big golden at the OneFour this year that they watched take several.

[packhuntr]

Is that right? What did the boys say was the doe's response?

[sheephunter]

Is that right? What did the boys say was the doe's response?

I don't think antelope does are overly protective. It's not uncommon to see antelope fawns all by themselves for hours during the first few days of life. This little guy became eagle food the day after I took this photo.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246895_10150275423695400_667430399_9554203_1743670 _n.jpg

[ishootbambi]

Actually the greatest source of antelope fawn mortality is coyotes. I suspect eagles are a close second. That's very well documented. I suspect in may be for prairie mule deer as well.

sorry....i meant in winter. yes they get em in spring.

[packhuntr]

I don't think antelope does are overly protective. It's not uncommon to see antelope fawns all by themselves for hours during the first few days of life. This little guy became eagle food the day after I took this photo.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246895_10150275423695400_667430399_9554203_1743670 _n.jpg


And it would stand to reason I suppose that they are not stupid and would wait till the doe is away watering or what have you. Very interesting. We dont see goldens or balds as a rule up here summering, the few I see in this country anyways, more wintering on the Bow and Red Deer maybe? Some years we see more, some less. Nice photo, love those little goats