Road allowances between private land.

[TBark]

Further to bear-scats post on someone shooting off his property, I have a question, or interpretation on road allowances along or between peoples property.

We saw a truck on 3 different occasions last month drive along our fence line checking out our field, and when we aren't there to see him, we see the tracks turning around on our field edge. Seems to be the same time in the AM. Neighbor to the north of the fence is posted and so are we, so to avoid a conflict, we just stayed in our stands, 400 yds away is too far to try and approach and question the guy anyway, so on the one hand you figure no harm in a guy looking, but then you have to ask what the guy would do if he saw an animal tempting him to shoot.
When we bought the quarter a yr back, county map shows road allowance to the first neighbors land which is a rig road, rig road turns into neighbors quarter, then no more road, just our tracks in the grass apprx 300 yds along our fence to the end of the field, then 500 more yds to our camp, through some bush, out of sight. Likely people see a worn trail or a cattle trail and figure it's a roadway.

So my question is...
If the county map shows allowances every 2 miles N/S and every mile E/W, can people travel / hunt along these 20 meter wide allowances even if these are not roads, or roadways ?
We are talking now about fencing beyond the maintained rig road that views the end of our field & access's our camp.
One could argue they would want to use the allowance to access Crown land which is 3 miles beyond our camp, but this cannot be readily accessed due to 3 steep ridges & ravines. 2 miles north is a common used roadway and quad trail into crown land.
So what is the road allowance for anyways ?
Allows the county to build a road for public access ? But what if no road exists ?


TBark

[rottie]

A far as I know a road allowance wether developed or not is still crown land. I some cases undeveloped road allowances have been sold to adjoining landowners. If not they are still open to public use. I dont think you can block it if it can be used to access crown land
If I remember right from when I surveyed the standard road allowance is 66 ft wide.

Check with your county land division they should have some better answers

Hope this helps

Ian

[coreya3212]

My wifes family in mountain view county has land on both sides of a road allowance where there is no road. It is our understanding that it is public land that we cannot block access to. People may go on that allowance, however I don't think they are allowed to shoot off of said allowance as it is county land, not crown land ? I am not positive on the shooting part. Have to be really ballsy to shoot a animal on the twenty meters of allowance considering where he might fall...

Ps. Just seen Rotties post, so maybe they are crown.

[Knotter]

Road allowances are public land including those that are undeveloped. I'm sure an Alberta Land Surveyor will chime in on this. The existence of road allowances goes back to laws related to water access etc.

[Kitscoty Bear Slayer(KBS)]

I have seen road allowances fenced for livestock and I believe road allowances are for future development.If no road exists it is still open for future development

[elkhunter11]

I have seen road allowances fenced for livestock and I believe road allowances are for future development.

Sometimes they are fenced or cropped legally, and sometimes illegally. Without checking with the county office, you won't know for sure.

[coreya3212]

Yes, they can usually be leased from the county for ag use. I think mountain view even lists the per acre lease rate on there website.

[Douglas N]

Sometimes they are fenced or cropped legally, and sometimes illegally. Without checking with the county office, you won't know for sure.

Put a fence up along your property line. Folks can drive the road allowance and look all they want. If you have it fenced, at least there's a visual deterrant to trespassers.

[Kitscoty Bear Slayer(KBS)]

Sometimes they are fenced or cropped legally, and sometimes illegally. Without checking with the county office, you won't know for sure.

x2 no harm fencing or cropping if the road goes nowhere anyway.
Just sayin:)

[Elkaholic6]

From my understanding, if both land owners on that road allowance agree to gate it, you can go to the County/MD and ask for permission to put up a gate.

[elkhunter11]

Put a fence up along your property line. Folks can drive the road allowance and look all they want. If you have it fenced, at least there's a visual deterrant to trespassers.

I was referring to putting a fence across the road allowance.


x2 no harm fencing or cropping if the road goes nowhere anyway.
Just sayin

But if you decide to do either or both without doing it through legal means, don't get upset if someone cuts the fence or drives on your crop.

[remmy300]

Occasionally in my line of work we run into landowners that rent the undeveloped road allowance. If the landowner rents the road allowance from a particular county, that landowner can control who enters. If its undeveloped and no one rents, then anyone can enter. I don't know how anyone can consider shooting off a undeveloped road allowance. You better drop whatever in it's tracks on that road allowance. It's just an avenue for hunters with no permission to try and shoot an animal.

[Douglas N]

I was referring to putting a fence across the road allowance.




But if you decide to do either or both without doing it through legal means, don't get upset if someone cuts the fence or drives on your crop.

That's exactly why I'd fence on my property line. Leave the road allowance for driving.

Legal or not, it would be an anomaly to have "permission" to fence off or across a road allowance. Many would assume it was fenced illegally and be within their rights to drop a gate or cut a fence.

[Kitscoty Bear Slayer(KBS)]

But if you decide to do either or both without doing it through legal means, don't get upset if someone cuts the fence or drives on your crop.[/QUOTE]

Why would you drive there or cut the fence if the road goes nowhere??
I know alot of people that would get upset if you cut the fence or drove on the crop, especially on a road that goes nowhere.

[elkhunter11]

Why would you drive there or cut the fence if the road goes nowhere??
I know alot of people that would get upset if you cut the fence or drove on the crop, especially on a road that goes nowhere.

Why is not your business, it is the business of the person who chooses to drive there. Perhaps he will decide to ride that undeveloped road allowance on his atv. If you fence across that road allowance, or crop it illegally, you can get as upset as you choose if someone cuts that fence or drives on the crop, but you don't have a leg to stand on legally.

[Acesneights]

Not to be an a__ but if I drive down a road allowance and shoot a deer that jumps out in front of me presumingly I'm out of my truck and I hit him and he runs onto your land and dies.then I will come and ask you for permission to get my animal off your land and if you deny me access then I will call fish and game and they will assist me in the recovery of my animal.Just for arguementitive sake.However in saying that, that is half of the problem why certain landowners have a problem with hunters.Just throwing that out there.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Not to be an a__ but if I drive down a road allowance and shoot a deer that jumps out in front of me presumingly I'm out of my truck and I hit him and he runs onto your land and dies.then I will come and ask you for permission to get my animal off your land and if you deny me access then I will call fish and game and they will assist me in the recovery of my animal.Just for arguementitive sake.However in saying that, that is half of the problem why certain landowners have a problem with hunters.Just throwing that out there.

If the landowner denies access to his private land...even in the case to retreive dead or wounded game...nothing you or F&W can do about it...sadly. They can ask but if the landowner is dead set against it nothing you can legally do.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Not to be an a__ but if I drive down a road allowance and shoot a deer that jumps out in front of me presumingly I'm out of my truck and I hit him and he runs onto your land and dies.then I will come and ask you for permission to get my animal off your land and if you deny me access then I will call fish and game and they will assist me in the recovery of my animal.Just for arguementitive sake.However in saying that, that is half of the problem why certain landowners have a problem with hunters.Just throwing that out there.

I have to wonder where people get the idea that all that have to do is call F&W, and they will come and retrieve the animal. If the landowner refuses to grant permission, F&W, can't enter the land to retrieve the animal.

[HunterDave]

I hunted on land this year that had a road allowance that was all grown in to the north of the property. One landowner has put a fence gate in (just wire, not locked) to the entrance of it from the highway and either side of the allowance is fenced. If someone really wanted to, they could drive or walk up the road allowance and the landowners on either side wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on as far as getting them charged with trespassing.......because they aren't. There's no reason for anyone to go in there but I'm just sayin'.

[Acesneights]

Legally if it goes that far the landowner "could" be charged with the waste of an animal. However for the average fish cop it's not worth the hassle. If the landowner had a tag and tagged the animal then took it as his own that would be the only way it would hold up if the hunter took it to court.sorry.lefty-cunuck, elkhunter11 if I hit a soft spot you must be landowners, as am I. Just creating conversation.I have had a landowner up north call the fish cops on me for hunting on a road allowance which has a power line on it more than once and every time there is nothing the landowner can do.The f&w tell him to quit wasting there time and I go on my way.I have shot three whitetail bucks on that line.every time dropping the deer in there tracks nod if you look at my profile you will see a whitetail I shot on that road allowance.it was worth all the hassle.

[TBark]

I guess that's the problem, people can legally be there, but they have no reasonable reason to be there, hunt on a 20 meter strip of land, c'mon.
Like a few years back, RC's were asking hunters approaching the Water Valley area, the dead-end roads, all private, where they were going, if they said they were hunting, they were asked which property, if they could not give them an answer, they turned them around. But they could have pointed to a 20 meter allowance strip right, nope, not in this case. Should not be allowed in any case between private land, IMO. We can't blanket all scenarios as one I guess, circumstances can differ. But the question "Where does the allowance go" does play a part in allowing reasonable public access. Is it a route to crown land ?On paper the allowance does not end, can go for 100 miles, but physically, where does it go and where does reasonable access end, the physical landscape.

A buddy just emailed me and said he did contact the County earlier in Nov. The County says they will look at a request to allow us to fence the approach to our camp, we will need to justify this and if granted notice will need to be given to the neighbor to our south if fence or gate is to be locked.
He says he was given the guidelines to the process, some questions to answer like mentioned above, is there a likelihood of the county building a roadway in the future ? Physical landscape is considdered. Is it a reasonable access point to crown land ?
We will likely proceed with this. Ask yourselves, if you had people standing at your fence of your home peering into your windows, wouldn't you go out and ask them to leave, or tell them to move on ?

TBark

[Jimboy]

I guess that's the problem, people can legally be there, but they have no reasonable reason to be there, hunt on a 20 meter strip of land, c'mon.
Like a few years back, RC's were asking hunters approaching the Water Valley area, the dead-end roads, all private, where they were going, if they said they were hunting, they were asked which property, if they could not give them an answer, they turned them around. But they could have pointed to a 20 meter allowance strip right, nope, not in this case. Should not be allowed in any case between private land, IMO. We can't blanket all scenarios as one I guess, circumstances can differ. But the question "Where does the allowance go" does play a part in allowing reasonable public access. Is it a route to crown land ?On paper the allowance does not end, can go for 100 miles, but physically, where does it go and where does reasonable access end, the physical landscape.

A buddy just emailed me and said he did contact the County earlier in Nov. The County says they will look at a request to allow us to fence the approach to our camp, we will need to justify this and if granted notice will need to be given to the neighbor to our south if fence or gate is to be locked.
He says he was given the guidelines to the process, some questions to answer like mentioned above, is there a likelihood of the county building a roadway in the future ? Physical landscape is considdered. Is it a reasonable access point to crown land ?
We will likely proceed with this. Ask yourselves, if you had people standing at your fence of your home peering into your windows, wouldn't you go out and ask them to leave, or tell them to move on ?

TBark


A truck driving down the road allowance next to your property is not peering in your windows , poor poor anology, here that crap all the time.

[Mxyzptik]

Landowners have been fencing road allowances for years with and without county permission. In most cases it serves as a barrier to the rest of us to get access to crown land.

The OP said earlier that the crown land is 3 miles away past a couple of ravines.

What about upland hunting, shouldn't someone be allowed to walk that road allowance with his shotgun and shot a few grouse ?

IMO , landowners should not be assisted by county governments to " create " private access to public lands by blocking off the accesses, period. There are instance in province where this same scenario exists and blocks access to small fishing bearing lakes.

[Dale S]

A road allowance has to be registerd with the Alberta gov.then it is puplic. Undeveloped roads are not registered and under the stewertship of the land owners and they can keep the puplic out.Road allowances are 100' they use to be 66' and some still are.You can'nt fence off a registerd road allowance.

[greywolf]

If the landowner denies access to his private land...even in the case to retreive dead or wounded game...nothing you or F&W can do about it...sadly. They can ask but if the landowner is dead set against it nothing you can legally do.

LC

I thought F&W had the power to enter the property for retrieval, or has that law changed?????

[Dark]

Hi T Bark,

We have a section very close to you. I to have the same problem except I own the land on both sides of the dead end road that leads to our back quarter and stops at our field. We have no less than 4 trucks a morning during Nov. drive the road to our field. I don't know what their plan is you can't shoot down the road and its my land for a mile on each side of the road.

I know these are the same trucks day after day because I have chatted with a few of them from year to year. I don't get upset with them I just adapt and overcome. My plan is to lease the road allowance since it is my land on the sides and at the end and fence it.

Orginally I never bought the quarter at the end of the road from the neighbor because he allowed anybody to hunt there, which I thought was great and we could hunt here also. But after 2 years of parking my truck on the dead end road so anyone coming in could see that the field was already occupied, they would still drive by my truck drive by me in my stand and proceed to drive the edge of the field. I know they have as much right to hunt there as me, but the differance is I WAS RAISED WITH RESPECT. I would never hunt a quarter that had a truck sitting at the entrance even if I had permission.
So now the land is posted and I laugh at the *****holes when I sit in my stand.
I can't wait to see thier faces when the fence goes up across the road.

[Dark]

A road allowance has to be registerd with the Alberta gov.then it is puplic. Undeveloped roads are not registered and under the stewertship of the land owners and they can keep the puplic out.Road allowances are 100' they use to be 66' and some still are.You can'nt fence off a registerd road allowance.

How do you find out if it's registered?

[bear-scat]

Ya like how many of these people are only hunting a 66' or 100' strip only....you know whats going to happen if hogdaddy is on the other side of the fence ...the bullets will fly....they will be dragging or driving & looking over their shoulder......

What a way to hunt..looking over your shoulder so you don't get caught, not very ethical, can't be very satisfying. So what if you scored a wall hanger.

[Dark]

"Ya like how many of these people are only hunting a 66' or 100' strip only....you know whats going to happen if hogdaddy is on the other side of the fence ...the bullets will fly....they will be dragging or driving & looking over their shoulder......"

x2

[rottie]

Concerning big game hunting I feel the same as yourself, a road right of way is not the best spot. But how about walking the road allowance for upland game,is this not allowed ?

[Lefty-Canuck]

I thought F&W had the power to enter the property for retrieval, or has that law changed?????

I believe it is only if the animal is part of an investigation. By the way I am not saying it should be this way just saying the way that it is.

LC

[elkhunter11]

Legally if it goes that far the landowner "could" be charged with the waste of an animal.

Good luck with that, the landowner can't be charged with letting the edible meat go to waste, if he didn't have a part in killing that animal.

I thought F&W had the power to enter the property for retrieval, or has that law changed?????

That never was the law, it isn't part of F&W's job description to go around retrieving legally killed game animals that died on private property.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Bit of a re-direct here but are sure that your neighbour doesn't allow hunting?

Sure it is posted but he may have still given a couple guys permission.

I have permission on posted land...

[densa44]

This land is owned by the province and managed by the counties. Any one can walk on them and partake in legal activities. When the county leases the land for grazing or what have you, it is still public land.

The county can sell the road allowance after advertising and a public hearing.

If there are objections the land is usually not sold.

I hope this helps. It is a very contentious topic in Alberta.

[slough shark]

How many instances are there where there is a road allowances that doesn't have a road on it (can't shoot along or across the road) and the landowner does not allow hunting if you look respectable and ask nicely? as well personally I would never hunt big game anyways on a road allowance as they have a fair likely hood of being able to make it onto private land. As well you have to think if you went and asked respectfully and they lost it on you and said no, then you informed them of your intent to hunt anyway because you were legally allowed to hunt a 20 yard swath. What would happen if you shot a deer and it made it onto their land? if you were honest and didn't trespass (thereby giving them a legitimate reason to dislike you) what are the chances they would allow you to retrieve the animal, also they would try to hurt your reputation in the area with other landowners, etc... Is it really worth it 99.5% of the time?

[Shannon576]

There's a fine line when it comes to that issue legally you can not cross over into that area without the consent of the landowner and legally he has every right to keep your wild game and can do with what he wants such as make sausage, burger you get the idea if your kill happens to cross onto his land. If he catches you crossing onto his land he would most likely call the police and have you arrested for trespassing even if there is no sign stating "No trespassing". I think hunter's who hunt on crown land next to other landowners should get permission from the landowners that are next to crown land to retrieve your game if it happens to cross over. You should do this prior to the hunting season. Landowners would respect hunters a lot more for asking then not to ask at all prior to the season. If he doesn't give you permission then hunt further into the center of crown land rather then toward the edges of crown where your dead game may end up in his field. Don't be a jerk and do things illegally it gives all hunters a bad name and chances are he'll be keeping a close eye on his land as well as his neighbors keeping a close eye for next hunting season in other words you will be caught sooner or later and with neighboring land owners word travels fast that it makes asking for permission to hunt on there land next to imposable. He pays for that grazing lease that's why it's his grazing lease and not yours it's like a trapping line you can't put a cabin up on someone else's trapping line because you feel like it. Trappers pay for that line and hence is why there allowed to build a cabin and your not. It's all about respect Unless your doing some oilfield work out there you have no buisness being on his rented crown pasture:bad_boys_20:

[elkhunter11]

legally he has every right to keep your wild game and can do with what he wants such as make sausage, burger you get the idea if your kill happens to cross onto his land.

Unless the landowner tags the animal, or is granted a "Found Dead" permit by F&W, he has no legal claim to the animal.

[Shannon576]

Thats because farmers use it for a grazing lease they lease it from the crown that's why it's fenced. Not for future development other than oilfield related but nothing else

[elkhunter11]

Thats because farmers use it for a grazing lease they lease it from the crown that's why it's fenced

Sometimes, but not always.

[Acesneights]

Like I said in an earlier post I've shot several deer on the same road allowance with a powerline on it.Both times I seen the hog of a deer on the stuff to the north, rattled and mr hog came in and hopped the fence and I shot him dropping them in there tracks nothing illegal and if you follow rules and use respect there isn't a problem.Its the guys who would shoot at that 190" whitey even though he is on the wrong side of the fence.

[Acesneights]

Also if you guys can't drop a deer in it's tracks at a reasonable range then maybe you should spend more time at the range : )

[rottie]

Its not just about hunting the right of way, but does the right of way lead to or give access to crown land or land to which they have the right to hunt. If so then I dont believe the county should allow you to block access. As well these old undeveloped road allowances can be great fun to walk for ruffies.
As a kid my Dad and I did lots of that

[dgl1948]

Lets see... If I want to ride my sled in the winter I can do so on an unused road allowance (one of the only places in a farming area) and not be charged with trespassing.
If I want to ride my quad the same thing applies. I am not trespassing. Again one of the only places in a farming area.
If I want to go for a walk in the country here again one of the only places I can go.

Road allowances are public property and should be managed for the benefit of all , not for the greed of a few.

[TBark]

Lots of points of view, good.
Not sure if the terminolgy is correct or understood, by me either, but I'll find out. One could use the reason to use the allowance to access crown land for miles, but what is reasonable ? Crown land is 3 miles past, or 25 miles past.
County said all requests to fence will be considdered by application. A vehicle cannot pass our quarter, its a steep drop off, 2 of them within a mile. But to access by foot, maybe, well bring your rubber dingy for the beaver dams and climbing ropes to pass these ravines.

bdarling, good on you, I hunt a Edm local 250 powerline too, crown on one side, so no issues, but is this not a developed utility right-of-way ? Land owners may not have a say, but can Utility Co ? They likely don't care much.
So is there a diff between a county mapped road allowance, developed and undeveloped ? Utility powerline right of way is wider, 40 meters min I believe.
Like the post a while back the AO member walked ditches on maintained road, could legally hunt birds, so odd that our invisible mapped, undeveloped road allowance allows people to go one step further and hunt big game, or does it ? Or does it just allow them to pass by en route to crown land miles away ? Were the Water Valley RC"s wrong to turn people away ?

Our dead end fenceline is our own situation, not unique, but as people cannot reasonably pass by to access crown, we will request to post sign & or fence. Not the nasty land owner here, didn't own a thing 5 yrs back, just wanting to protect our camp on a dead end approach when we aren't there.

TBark

[honda450]

Tbark and Dark it seems to me the both of ya want to land lock access to crown land IMHO. Road allowances go on for miles and miles and either connect to a TWP road or a RR. Developed or undeveloped.

[Acesneights]

Tbark I do know that if the cutline is that of a powerline you need permission from the adjacent landowner however the place I hunt the powerline just happens to be on a road allowance which you do not need permission. I also have permission close to Calgary and many of times I'm sitting in my tree stand and have guys drive up and down the allowance hunting, and really guys has anyone ever shot a whitetail out of their truck with there bow because on both sides the landowner doesn't allow permission yet I kick guys off of the farmers land all the time.So to say the least that ****es me off but with the rifle I say go get em. Good debate nice to see everyone's views

[pedro96]

I brought up Bdarling on that Northern whitey hunt on my land n other great spots..My Grandfather , Father n uncle all hunted that that powerline ..taken Monster bucks off there..back then..25-30 years ago they didn't mind if ya got game from there fields..people knew one another..Now? 3 gen down..too much DISRESPECT..and alot of the best of the good old guys are gone...still hunt that powerline to this day.. Always will..!! Bdarling n my self are awesome at the good ol shoulder shot!! 4 hooves on that line won't make it 4 feet..

[Whiteysonly]

Not to be an a__ but if I drive down a road allowance and shoot a deer that jumps out in front of me presumingly I'm out of my truck and I hit him and he runs onto your land and dies.then I will come and ask you for permission to get my animal off your land and if you deny me access then I will call fish and game and they will assist me in the recovery of my animal.Just for arguementitive sake.However in saying that, that is half of the problem why certain landowners have a problem with hunters.Just throwing that out there.

Ahhh No 100% wrong WTF are fish and wildlife going to do on private land if I choose to not let you on my land so be it that's my land see the problem is city guys think they can do what ever they want in the country if someone were to trespass on my posted land which they have I send out my 2 german shepherds and they will bring back a trophy for me the arm from your hunting jacket. It's attitudes like yours that's the problem

[Whiteysonly]

Unless the landowner tags the animal, or is granted a "Found Dead" permit by F&W, he has no legal claim to the animal.

Or if your a dick (I) the farmer can drag that deer and feed some coyotes while your waiting for F&W you guys will never beat the farmer never!! So ask permission before the animal is down so the farmer doesn't have to waste a deer to prove a point

[ctd]

Wow, a landowner still has to co-operate with F&W.
The scenerio of a guy shoots a Deer on public land, it moves onto private land and then dies. The Hunter asks the the land owner for permission to retrieve their Deer, land owner denies permission. Hunter calls F&W to retreive their game.
Landowner cannot interfere with the retreival of said game by F&W. I don't care what you think.
THis is why the landstewardship program was created to try and ease relations.


Ethically If a landowner did not allow resonable access then they are no better then person who does tresspass.
Don't care you own the land blah blah blah. You also use the rightaway for your personalle use and possilby business.

Now in the above scenerio I would hope that the land owner would not let things get to the point that F&W would have to respond.

[orionab1]

better check the definition of occupied land.

[elkhunter11]

Or if your a dick (I) the farmer can drag that deer and feed some coyotes while your waiting for F&W

Absolutely true,the farmer can't use the meat himself without tagging it or obtaining a permit, but he could move a found dead carcass off of his land, or to another location on his land to avoid attracting coyotes to the location that it is currently residing.

Wow, a landowner still has to co-operate with F&W.

Absolutely he has to co-operate with F&W if an investigation is taking place,or if there is any suspicion that any Wildlife Act violations might have taken place, or are taking place. However, if a hunter tells F&W that he legally killed the animal, and there is no reason to suspect any violation of any kind, that isn't the situation here.

Ethically If a landowner did not allow resonable access then they are no better then person who does tresspass.

This isn't about ethics, it's about the law.

Now in the above scenerio I would hope that the land owner would not let things get to the point that F&W would have to respond.

If I was the landowner, and someone came to me to ask permission to retrieve an animal that they claimed was killed on a road allowance, I would investigate the situation myself before making up my mind whether to grant permission. If I was satisfied that the animal was shot while it was on the road allowance, and it looked as though the hunter was not shooting towards my buildings or my livestock, I would grant permission, but advise the hunter not to put himself in that situation again, or the outcome might be different in the future.

If I caught the hunter on my property attempting to retrieve the animal, without first asking permission, he would be told to leave immediately, and the RCMP would be called if he refused to do so. If he brought back F&W in an attempt to retrieve the animal, I would file charges against him, and deny access to the land.

Other people may not agree, but that is what I would do in that situation.

[winged1]

Legally if it goes that far the landowner "could" be charged with the waste of an animal. However for the average fish cop it's not worth the hassle. If the landowner had a tag and tagged the animal then took it as his own that would be the only way it would hold up if the hunter took it to court.sorry.lefty-cunuck, elkhunter11 if I hit a soft spot you must be landowners, as am I. Just creating conversation.I have had a landowner up north call the fish cops on me for hunting on a road allowance which has a power line on it more than once and every time there is nothing the landowner can do.The f&w tell him to quit wasting there time and I go on my way.I have shot three whitetail bucks on that line.every time dropping the deer in there tracks nod if you look at my profile you will see a whitetail I shot on that road allowance.it was worth all the hassle.

strange storry. Landownership has no implicate duty as a regulated hunter to keep the flesh from wasting. Tagging the animal by the owner would then place that onuse upon them, either way, the hunter without access, who shot the animal, is out that animal if access denied. Power lines with maintenance roads are typically under assignment to the utility, who, rarely provide unqualified access to the assigned lands. Your right, an adjacent landowner has no quarrel, but F&W likely know the access status of utility corridors.

[Dark]

"If I was the landowner, and someone came to me to ask permission to retrieve an animal that they claimed was killed on a road allowance, I would investigate the situation myself before making up my mind whether to grant permission. If I was satisfied that the animal was shot while it was on the road allowance, and it looked as though the hunter was not shooting towards my buildings or my livestock, I would grant permission, but advise the hunter not to put himself in that situation again, or the outcome might be different in the future."

x2

[greywolf]

Well I would like to tell you of an experience I had.
I had permission to hunt 2 quarters of land which bordered land owned by another farmer. Opening day I shot and wounded an elk, it ran approx 50 yds, crossed a fence and expired approx another 50 yards on land I did not have permission on. I went and explained exactly what had happened to the landowner (farmer). I could very easily back my story because there was enough snowfall for him too see what really happened.
There was no way in h3ll that farmer was going to let me on, for what ever his reasons were. (I did not have any past experiences with him so its not like he had it in for me....I think)...So I called F&W and explained the situation, one officer came out and I showed him, from the fenceline. We then drove in seperate vehicles to the farm yard. The F&W officer approached the farmer, explained why he was there and explained that he would like to retrieve the elk, with assistance from myself. Of course, the farmer became irate and had some choice words for the officer. The officer then pulled him aside and quietly had a few words with him and then TOLD THE FARMER that he was going to retrieve this elk with my assistance. We then proceeded to retrieve the elk, myself and the F&W officer......end of story..

[elkhunter11]

The officer then pulled him aside and quietly had a few words with him and then TOLD THE FARMER that he was going to retrieve this elk with my assistance. We then proceeded to retrieve the elk, myself and the F&W officer......end of story..

In your case, the landowner backed down, in other cases that I am familiar with, the F&W officers backed down, because they didn't feel that they had the legal grounds to retrieve the animal against the landowners wishes. Did the officer have legal grounds in your case, or did he simply convince the landowner that he did? It makes me wonder what would have happened in your case, had the landowner held his ground, or even called the RCMP to really complicate things.

[greywolf]

It would be nice if someone on this forum who had the correct answer would chime in, unless thats happened already.

[elkhunter11]

It would be nice if someone on this forum who had the correct answer would chime in, unless thats happened already.

Well the original question was:

So my question is...
If the county map shows allowances every 2 miles N/S and every mile E/W, can people travel / hunt along these 20 meter wide allowances even if these are not roads, or roadways ?
We are talking now about fencing beyond the maintained rig road that views the end of our field & access's our camp.
One could argue they would want to use the allowance to access Crown land which is 3 miles beyond our camp, but this cannot be readily accessed due to 3 steep ridges & ravines. 2 miles north is a common used roadway and quad trail into crown land.
So what is the road allowance for anyways ?
Allows the county to build a road for public access ? But what if no road exists ?

And it has been answered that people can legally travel or hunt these undeveloped road allowances, and you can't legally fence them unless you follow the proper procedures first.

[HunterDave]

I don't know why you'd hunt deer on a road allowance with private property on both sides that you don't have permission for. Hunting grouse I could see but not deer.

[ctd]

It would be Illegal for a Land owner to TAG an Animal to which they did not shoot with out gaining permission from F&W.

[Whiteysonly]

I don't know why you'd hunt deer on a road allowance with private property on both sides that you don't have permission for. Hunting grouse I could see but not deer.

Finally someone that makes sense! That's reasonable access I would say. I would allow that. Well said

[Acesneights]

Ahhh No 100% wrong WTF are fish and wildlife going to do on private land if I choose to not let you on my land so be it that's my land see the problem is city guys think they can do what ever they want in the country if someone were to trespass on my posted land which they have I send out my 2 german shepherds and they will bring back a trophy for me the arm from your hunting jacket. It's attitudes like yours that's the problem

Huh kind of a rude post just stating my opinion.Also just so you know I grew up in the country and still live in the country my whole life and yes I do feel some people's frustration with the whole thing just some people take it to far.if you have a problemm with someone on a road allowance by your house do yourself a favour and go talk to them like a friend tell them you would rather them not be there and if they are going to use it to use consideration instead of being rude and screaming in there face and telling them they have no right to be there

[pedro96]

I would bet .. 90 percent of AO members on this forum would LOVE to hunt this powerline.. Up north.. UNBELIVABLE BUCKS!! ..gotta know how to bring em outta the field And bush..(luck helps!) ..5 day hard hunt ..might spend 1 day there the rest chasin cutblock bucks..ALLWAYS see n get HUGE bucks not far from my house.. On a 66 ft powerline!! Check Bdarlings profile deer..183ish .. Seen Way bigger buck than his on that line ..spun n gone.. People don't judge

[Acesneights]

It would be Illegal for a Land owner to TAG an Animal to which they did not shoot with out gaining permission from F&W.

Also this is not true.If I'm walking through the woods on crown land and find a dead deer I can legally put my tag instead of going to get a permit not to say you would have a reason to put your tag on a deer that you didn't shoot but a landowner may

[pedro96]

Finally someone that makes sense! That's reasonable access I would say. I would allow that. Well said

Grow up!! Sick dogs on people!! They Might get my sleeve..you're gonna be out to stupid mutts!!...YOU ARE FROM SOUTH ALTA..!!

[BigBuck$]

I thought it was illegal to shoot along or across a road, does this not apply to road allowances?

[elkhunter11]

I thought it was illegal to shoot along or across a road, does this not apply to road allowances?

You might want to read up on the regulations,as this would not be considered a road that the regulation applies to. It doesn't apply to all roads. And a person hunting game birds with a shotgun is exempt.

[parfleche]

Hey I farmed but , Just out of curiosity , IF the deer had no monetary value or impressive racks , would there be such a discussion going on? 40 years ago you could hunt almost anywhere , NOW because everyone wants a large trophy , there suddenly comes a problem of trespassing etc. Doesnt seem to bother owners that oil leases get developed on their land! The damage inflicted by a half ton pickup or the bootprints of a human does not compare to an invasion of oilfield equipment , not to mention the noise and pollution !Could it be because of the money? YEAH I think so!:So is there a legitimate reason to deny access to owned property?
One would have to say affirmative ,There are those who hunt that would vandalize and destroy , BUT consider this mr landowner , when you go to town , are some of these same deniers of access guilty of the same ? You darned tootin buckshot, like pi--ing in the street, driving their heavy duty Rams with loud mufflers through neighborhoods with a belly full of beer, or their sons , Think about this for a second!What exactly would you do at two in the am IF some city slicker roared down your driveway pulling powerturns by your house , have I hit a nerve yet?
On the average most landowners are very considerate, BUT there are some in every crowd! Good reasons come to mind are selfishness, jealousy, and greed!
Case in point 1976 Rockyford AB , in the bar: Have you let anyone hunt on your place yet? NAH , Why? Magoo answers : and he has a few under his belt , I don,t let them on cause I like to keep the deer for myself! HA HA hA , Big joke!

[Acesneights]

Whiteyonly didn't like that last comment of yours Pedro. Whiteyonly It looks like you live in sturgeon county which is very close to Edmonton so I do feel your pain because I have some land just outside Calgary with a road allowance running right through my section and always kicking "city folk" off. and yes I would not advise the whole thing with your shepards

[anthony5]

Yes! I live in southern Alberta with alot of road allowances that belong to the taxpayers of Alberta. The land on either side does not belong to the people of Alberta it usually belongs to a farmer which we have no access to without permission whether it is POSTED or NOT! If the land adjacent to a road allowance is not fenced they usually do not mind if you hunt with respect for their property. But if you assume it is okay to hunt and are caught without permission you can be charged with trespassing, dead animal or not! If you have a downed animal shot off a road allowance, where you have every right to be, and it ends up on private property you have to have permission to retrieve it, if for some reason they say no, you pack you sh#t and leave. F&W can plead your case to the owner but they can not enter private property unless the owner has them to come and remove your sorry beehind, or there has been a crime commited and an investigation is going on. In Southern Alberta you can not be denied access to road allowances, but you can be from land owners, this Road allowance info comes from our County land man. The rest of it is an no brainer:argue2:

[Houndogn]

ya know what it comes down to ? i shouldn't have been spending the last day of the season helping a kid look for his deer ( that was gutshot) on our 80 acres.... yes no permission where it was shot. till tonight....cause no one wants to cause any **** in the neighborhood... so now they have permision... so much bull****.... and it is gonna stay that way till some of my neighbors are willing to say enough is enough...... this is where is live sw-03-93-21 w5...and the nieghbors let me hunt in many spots.... i ASK... and i have permision where i go

[Dark]

I don't know why you'd hunt deer on a road allowance with private property on both sides that you don't have permission for. Hunting grouse I could see but not deer.

x2

[Acesneights]

x2

BECAUSE all you need is a deer to jump the fence onto the allowance which happens all the time and if you hit them in the spot you are supposed to they will drop in their tracks.Ive done it several times and once I got a 183" whitetail and it was a great time

[elkhunter11]

BECAUSE all you need is a deer to jump the fence onto the allowance which happens all the time and if you hit them in the spot you are supposed to they will drop in their tracks.

But since most of us can't place every single shot perfectly to ensure that the animal drops on the spot, that deer just might make it onto private land that you don't have access to. Then the fun begins. Take that chance if you want, I am just not willing to risk the fallout if things don't go perfectly.

[Lefty-Canuck]

But since most of us can't place every single shot perfectly to ensure that the animal drops on the spot, that deer just might make it onto private land that you don't have access to. Then the fun begins.

To some people Elkhunter11 thats neither here nor there....

LC

[HunterDave]

BECAUSE all you need is a deer to jump the fence onto the allowance which happens all the time and if you hit them in the spot you are supposed to they will drop in their tracks.Ive done it several times and once I got a 183" whitetail and it was a great time

Yeah, me too but not everytime. Why put yourself in a potential situation where the deer quite possibly could end up on private property? There are allot better places to hunt deer.

[elkhunter11]

To some people Elkhunter11 thats neither here nor there..

But unfortunately, those people are the ones that are likely going to eventually end up having a very negative experience with a landowner, and hunters as a whole lose whenever that happens.

[Lefty-Canuck]

But unfortunately, those people are the ones that are likely going to eventually end up having a very negative experience with a landowner, and hunters as a whole lose whenever that happens.

...exactly my point...

Sorry guys but I can't see hunting a 50ft wide strip of land......I like more wide open spaces......if thats for you blow your hair back.

LC

[j m]

I don't see any difference with shooting down a road or a road allowance with a centerfire. They are there for access and should be treated the same.

I feel the need to respond to parfleche as attitudes like his are not helping access issues.

On the average most landowners are very considerate, BUT there are some in every crowd! Good reasons come to mind are selfishness, jealousy, and greed!
The same can be said about hunters. I think we found the one on this board.

...40 years ago you could hunt almost anywhere , NOW because everyone wants a large trophy , there suddenly comes a problem of trespassing etc.... So is there a legitimate reason to deny access to owned property?

10 years ago asking for access here was granted 99% of the time. Now it's closer to 5%. The number of hunters looking for these trophy animals has exploded and increased tresspassing/damage to get them has caused land to be closed off. So who is really to blame for that?
There are many legitimate reasons to deny access. Most of the farmers I know are trying to harvest in the fall, not answer phone calls and babysit hunters. If you got endless stream of vacuum cleaner salesmen coming to your door while you're trying to work at home, you would eventually start slamming the door.

Doesnt seem to bother owners that oil leases get developed on their land! The damage inflicted by a half ton pickup or the bootprints of a human does not compare to an invasion of oilfield equipment , not to mention the noise and pollution !Could it be because of the money?
Some won't allow it. Others realize it's not an issue for an oil company to move 1/4 mile away to drill a well. And oilfield companies DO pay if they rut up fields or otherwise cause damage.

BUT consider this mr landowner , when you go to town , are some of these same deniers of access guilty of the same ? You darned tootin buckshot, like pi--ing in the street, driving their heavy duty Rams with loud mufflers through neighborhoods with a belly full of beer, or their sons , Think about this for a second!What exactly would you do at two in the am IF some city slicker roared down your driveway pulling powerturns by your house
If they were ****ing in my yard, or driving across my lawn I would call the police. The same would apply if they were driving like idiots tearing up the streets. If they have a belly full of beer they will be dealt with. But remember, they have a right to drive down your street any time they want to. It's public property just like any back road or road allowance regardless of if that road is next to your home. What exactly would you do if someone started shooting 200 yds from your house at first light that didn't realize there is a house behind that little patch of bush in the line of fire? When people start shooting in your neighborhood on a daily basis we'll be on the same page.


Case in point 1976 Rockyford AB , in the bar: Have you let anyone hunt on your place yet? NAH , Why? Magoo answers : and he has a few under his belt , I don,t let them on cause I like to keep the deer for myself! HA HA hA , Big joke!
It probably was a joke. Guessing you had a few in you at the time too and didn't realize someone was pushing your buttons. :sHa_sarcasticlol:
BTW You do realize that was 35 years ago.... don't you? :snapoutofit:

[Whiteysonly]

Grow up!! Sick dogs on people!! They Might get my sleeve..you're gonna be out to stupid mutts!!...YOU ARE FROM SOUTH ALTA..!!

First of all I live in the north pal and I never said I was going to sick my TWO not to ( must be from Newfoundland ) champion line purebred shepherds on you unless your on my property then yes they will take your arm home to me and not only a sleeve if anyone were to take a shot at my dogs YOU would be out 4 tires as well as a few other things I will not write here if you catch my drift why are you trying to argue a point that your wrong so stay in your city condo buy meat from Safeway make me some money city boy!

[Acesneights]

First of all I live in the north pal and I never said I was going to sick my TWO not to ( must be from Newfoundland ) champion line purebred shepherds on you unless your on my property then yes they will take your arm home to me and not only a sleeve if anyone were to take a shot at my dogs YOU would be out 4 tires as well as a few other things I will not write here if you catch my drift why are you trying to argue a point that your wrong so stay in your city condo buy meat from Safeway make me some money city boy!

Umm whiteyonly.The thing is, is that if your dogs attacked Pedro he could legally defend himself however if you slashed his tires you would be charged. There is a difference there and if I were you I would keep you mouth shut from now on.Just sayin

[Whiteysonly]

Umm whiteyonly.The thing is, is that if your dogs attacked Pedro he could legally defend himself however if you slashed his tires you would be charged. There is a difference there and if I were you I would keep you mouth shut from now on.Just sayin

Jesus I thought this was over I will try one more time for you and your boyfriend Pedro ok If you were trespassing on my land you will not be walking out period how would I be charged when your the one doing the illegal act does that make any sense I have a right to defend my land my livestock and most of all my family end of story oh and keep my mouth shutBif you were me I am a Canadian I have freedom of speech if you would like to discuss a problem with me in person PM me and we can arrange a meeting

[AbAngler]

Awesome! :fighting0030:

[TBark]

Runaway train here.
Maybe I'll start the thread again.

TBark

[Doodle30]

Jesus I thought this was over I will try one more time for you and your boyfriend Pedro ok If you were trespassing on my land you will not be walking out period how would I be charged when your the one doing the illegal act does that make any sense I have a right to defend my land my livestock and most of all my family end of story oh and keep my mouth shutBif you were me I am a Canadian I have freedom of speech if you would like to discuss a problem with me in person PM me and we can arrange a meeting

I wish I had my law degree. You would make for a great client.

[honda450]

Jesus I thought this was over I will try one more time for you and your boyfriend Pedro ok If you were trespassing on my land you will not be walking out period how would I be charged when your the one doing the illegal act does that make any sense I have a right to defend my land my livestock and most of all my family end of story oh and keep my mouth shutBif you were me I am a Canadian I have freedom of speech if you would like to discuss a problem with me in person PM me and we can arrange a meeting

Dude your dumber than a sack of hammers. :Lightning:

[Lefty-Canuck]

Dude your dumber than a sack of hammers. :Lightning:

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd460/lefty-canuck/IBTL/dumb_as_a_sack_of_hammers_lg_wht.gif

My sack of hammers is offended.... :)

LC

[honda450]

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd460/lefty-canuck/IBTL/dumb_as_a_sack_of_hammers_lg_wht.gif

My sack of hammers is offended.... :)

LC

Hehe...good one.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/honda450990/If2520Youre2520Dumb___You2520Better2520Be2520Tough .jpg

[pedro96]

Jesus I thought this was over I will try one more time for you and your boyfriend Pedro ok If you were trespassing on my land you will not be walking out period how would I be charged when your the one doing the illegal act does that make any sense I have a right to defend my land my livestock and most of all my family end of story oh and keep my mouth shutBif you were me I am a Canadian I have freedom of speech if you would like to discuss a problem with me in person PM me and we can arrange a meeting

Whiteys...ONLY?? You sound like a Homophobic Rednecked Racest!! Lighten up!!..Might head south of here cuz sounds like baby needs a BaBa!!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Whiteys...ONLY?? You sound like a Homophobic Rednecked Racest!! Lighten up!!..Might head south of here cuz sounds like baby needs a BaBa!!

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd460/lefty-canuck/IBTL/imagesCAWHDSB2.jpg

LC :)

[winged1]

It would be Illegal for a Land owner to TAG an Animal to which they did not shoot with out gaining permission from F&W.

what's the premise of this?

[TBark]

Some good info from AO posts a few yrs back.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=45517

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=47743

TBark

[bigbadjoe108]

Hi all,

It is funny that this comes up now. Earlier this season a friend and I used a road allowance to access what we thought was DU land to go for some ducks. Well we ensured we were on the DU land and that we we 250+ meters from any buildings and set up our blind. Well right a we got two a man in a truck comes driving up and screaming at us that we were on private land. Well it was my first time there and thought it very possible we had made a mistake. We apologized profusely and left.

When we got back to town we checked the county map. Apparently the land was DU land and the guy was just a jerk.

Meh, before next season I'm checking that road allowance with the county and if that is crown land we are for sure heading back!!

[ctd]

Read the regulations about found dead wildlife and gaining a permit to possess such.

Make sure you go into the Alberta Queens Printer version. Then get back to me where I get my answer from.

[elkhunter11]

Read the regulations about found dead wildlife and gaining a permit to possess such.

Make sure you go into the Alberta Queens Printer version. Then get back to me where I get my answer from.

Then again if the landowner claims that the animal was still alive and that he finished it off, you might have a hard time proving otherwise after he tags it, and dresses it out.:sign0161:

[ctd]

What the land owner was video taped doing such, or what if the F&W Officer was present and seen this happen, what if the person who shot the animal followed the ruls to not let any game animal go to waste, what if the land owner was not a D head and allowed the hunter to retrieve his game.

Lots of what if's.

[AlazyS]

I have road allowance along part of my 500 acre pasture. I allow 15 gentlemen access to hunt every year. There was / has / is tresspassing traffic from the road allowance.

Originally was continual problems, so this is how I fixed (almost). I issued hunt permits to those with permission, those without my issued permission card are tresspassing / poaching.

I then have granted F&W access to the property (at all times) with clear instruction to charge anyone found there without one of my issued permits. They like this idea.

This has been a good solution thus far, but then had my own hunt interupted by a tresspasser. He got out before we could catch up with him, he either left or eluded us with good camo.

My last result to fix, will be the soon to be purchased thermal (flir) binocular so tresspassers cannot elude capture and charges being laid. Yes I know thermals are expensive, but if tresspassers / poachers want to keep escalating, I have the means to take it further.

Cheers ! My 2 cents.

[elkhunter11]

what if the person who shot the animal followed the ruls to not let any game animal go to waste,

Those rules don't give him the right to trespass.

what if the land owner was not a D head and allowed the hunter to retrieve his game.

If someone insists on hunting a road allowance next to property that he doesn't have permission to access, he takes the risk of being denied access. The hunters poor planning isn't the fault of the landowner.

[winged1]

Read the regulations about found dead wildlife and gaining a permit to possess such.

Make sure you go into the Alberta Queens Printer version. Then get back to me where I get my answer from.

now you've got me wondering about the context of said regulation.
Say hunter A was hunting public lands across the fence and hunter B was hunting his private land on the other side. Hunter A shot a deer that made it across the fence onto the private land and collapsed. Hunter B calmly walks over and places his tag on the animal. Is he in contempt of the law? Does hunter A have any recourse? If you and I where hunting and you shot a deer, but I placed my tag on it, am I in contempt of the law?

You could also say that section 84 provides that possession impies you've harvested.

Regardless, an owner would not be in contempt of the law if they denied access to a hunter to claim thier kill.

[winged1]

Read the regulations about found dead wildlife and gaining a permit to possess such.

Make sure you go into the Alberta Queens Printer version. Then get back to me where I get my answer from.

Ok, rather than edit that last post, I'll start anew. Your totally out of context on your position. The act clearly states that interests in ownership are transferred by afixing a valid tag to the animal, and by doing so, you've been deemed to have 'hunted' that animal.

[ctd]

If you find dead wild life you must contact F&W for a permit. They will either issue you a Permit to possess the wildlife or they may allow you to affix your tag. That will be up to them.
You cannot make that decision yourself.

Show me where it says affixing your tag to found dead wildlife transfers ownership. Please do.

The act also states that a authorized Officer may access your land to enforce the rules and regulations.

Back to the original scenerio.
A hunter lawfully hunts on a right away. Shoot a animal, the animal crosses into private land. The hunter asks permission to retrieve their game, permission is denied. Hunter then calls F&W to deal with the situation. F&W shows up to retrieve the game. The land owner denies permission to the Officer to retrieve the game.
Here are a couple differnent scenerios

1. Officer tells the landowner that they are going to retrieve the game for the hunter and the land owner cannot interfer.

2 The landowner goes out affixs his own tag to the animal, claims that they shot it themselves.

3. The landowner concedes and allows the Officer and or the hunter the retrieve their game.

4. Landowner refuses any access and blocks access to the Officer.

5. Land owner takes possision of the animal in question. Applies for a permit to possess foudn dead wildlife.

[winged1]

If you find dead wild life you must contact F&W for a permit. They will either issue you a Permit to possess the wildlife or they may allow you to affix your tag. That will be up to them.
You cannot make that decision yourself.

Show me where it says affixing your tag to found dead wildlife transfers ownership. Please do.

The act also states that a authorized Officer may access your land to enforce the rules and regulations.

Back to the original scenerio.
A hunter lawfully hunts on a right away. Shoot a animal, the animal crosses into private land. The hunter asks permission to retrieve their game, permission is denied. Hunter then calls F&W to deal with the situation. F&W shows up to retrieve the game. The land owner denies permission to the Officer to retrieve the game.
Here are a couple differnent scenerios

1. Officer tells the landowner that they are going to retrieve the game for the hunter and the land owner cannot interfer.

2 The landowner goes out affixs his own tag to the animal, claims that they shot it themselves.

3. The landowner concedes and allows the Officer and or the hunter the retrieve their game.

4. Landowner refuses any access and blocks access to the Officer.

5. Land owner takes possision of the animal in question. Applies for a permit to possess foudn dead wildlife.

Come on, you don't bother giving me a link, yet you ask for specifics. Get a life. It's spattered around in much of the Act's language, but section 8 / 9 is a good place to start.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If you shoot a deer on your side of the fence...it jumps to my side and is still alive and I deliver the last shot fatal blow...that deer is mine.

No different than if a guy shoots an animal and doesn't recover it, it is still alive but wounded....I am out hunting see the wounded animal and I shoot it....its mine.

If a guy shoots and the animal is dead when I find it on my side...it could become mine after I call F and W and follow their instructions.

LC

[elkhunter11]

If you shoot a deer on your side of the fence...it jumps to my side and is still alive and I deliver the last shot fatal blow...that deer is mine.

No different than if a guy shoots an animal and doesn't recover it, it is still alive but wounded....I am out hunting see the wounded animal and I shoot it....its mine.

If a guy shoots and the animal is dead when I find it on my side...it could become mine after I call F and W and follow their instructions.



Exactly, if the animal makes it onto my land, and it is still alive, I have the option of shooting it and tagging it as my own if I choose to. As to determining if it is still alive, the landowner that has the ability to walk up to the animal, is in a much better position to assess that, than the person that has to watch from the property line.

Not that I would want to shoot someone else's animal, and waste my tag on it, but if they shot it on my land, or they were shooting towards my buildings or my livestock or machinery, I might do it,just to teach them a lesson.

[pottymouth]

Anyone that hunts on a road allowance, between two private properties that they don't have permission on is just asking for trouble. IMO, I see it as disrespectful to the land owners and the wildlife. In most cases they are just trying to steal a shot at game, because they are childish about the fact they can't obtain permission. Most times the game hops the fence and they proceed after it, with no regard about laws.......that's my experience with individuals doing such.


On another note, I heard the other day that a certain county, is putting into place, a No big game hunting bylaw on all their unmaintained road allowances in there county. A well anticipated new rule !

[Acesneights]

So if a hunter shoots a new world record whitetail on a road allowance and it dies 10 ft on some prixs land who will not allow access to anyone including f&w, I can promise you that everyone on this thread would get a lawyer and eventually get their deer back even though it's not the scenario the hunter wants.As soon as a f&w officer tells the landowner that he cannot touch that deer because it is going to be under investigation the landowner either doesn't want the hassle of court and will let f&w in to retrieve it or it will be taken as evidence and if the hunter can prove blood or snow showing he shot it on the allowance then the hunter will be allotted the deer and have a warning to be more careful next time.Case closed.Also I use " new world record " because lets get real if it was a doe nobody here would go through the hassle, let the landowner "win " this time

[Acesneights]

I was waiting for you to buzz in pottymouth : ) However the original question was more about the legistics of it not morals because let's face it there are a lot of road allowances that you wouldn't want the hassle

[Lefty-Canuck]

So if a hunter shoots a new world record whitetail on a road allowance and it dies 10 ft on some prixs land who will not allow access to anyone including f&w, I can promise you that everyone on this thread would get a lawyer and eventually get their deer back even though it's not the scenario the hunter wants.As soon as a f&w officer tells the landowner that he cannot touch that deer because it is going to be under investigation the landowner either doesn't want the hassle of court and will let f&w in to retrieve it or it will be taken as evidence and if the hunter can prove blood or snow showing he shot it on the allowance then the hunter will be allotted the deer and have a warning to be more careful next time.Case closed.Also I use " new world record " because lets get real if it was a doe nobody here would go through the hassle, let the landowner "win " this time

I get what you are saying BUT....

If the animal dies on private property that a guy has no permission on....it would not qualify for the record books as "it was not obtained through legal means"....that excuse has been tried many times where a guy shoots a deer where he is not allowed but has tried to argue it was the biggest one he ever saw so he took a chance....

I just don't agree with your logic...that's my opinion.

Also I disagree with you stating "anyone on this thread would lawyer up to claim the new world record"....many of us would never hunt in a fashion that would even remotely require that we even in a 1% chance would have to lawyer up.

LC

[Dark]

"I see it as disrespectful to the land owners and the wildlife. In most cases they are just trying to steal a shot at game, because they are childish about the fact they can't obtain permission. Most times the game hops the fence and they proceed after it, with no regard about laws"

x2 pottymouth

and if it jumps the fence do they even risk tresspassing to go look for blood, I doubt it.

Our crew has shot alot of animals that have had very little evidence of a hit at the orginal spot. But once we follow the animals direction of travel we have found bood. So all you road hunters that hunt around private land and that have shot at animals that run onto private land how do you follow up on you misses, or should I say the hits you thought were misses. I know, you don't

"many of us would never hunt in a fashion that would even remotely require that we even in a 1% chance would have to lawyer up."

x2 again

[Okotokian]

I then have granted F&W access to the property (at all times) with clear instruction to charge anyone found there without one of my issued permits.

I don't mean this as a comment on your practice, just a question: Don't F&W have the right to access private land with or without permission in the course of their duties? Do they need to go find the landowner before they come onto the property to check licences, etc.? I would have thought they did have right of access, but i could be wrong.

[Donkey Oatey]

I don't mean this as a comment on your practice, just a question: Don't F&W have the right to access private land with or without permission in the course of their duties? Do they need to go find the landowner before they come onto the property to check licences, etc.? I would have thought they did have right of access, but i could be wrong.

From the Wildlife Act

Entry on and the passing over of land
66(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without a
warrant, enter on and pass over any land while lawfully engaged in
the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions
given him or her by, or that otherwise relate to the enforcement of,
this Act, including those implied by section 65.
(2) Subsection (1) does not in itself authorize the entry into any
tent, building or other structure or any search or seizure.
(3) The officer or guardian, while lawfully engaged in the entry on
or the passing over of the land in accordance with subsection (1), is
liable only for damage that he or she wilfully causes.
RSA 2000 cW-10 s66;2002 c30 s33;2009 c36 s4



Now it would come down to is going on to private land to recover an animal for a hunter a duty of a F&W Officer? I guess if the officer had any questions as to whether it was a legit hunt or not they would. Sometimes it comes down to don't upset the apple cart, might not get any cooperation out of the land owner when you do need it.

[winged1]

So if a hunter shoots a new world record whitetail on a road allowance and it dies 10 ft on some prixs land who will not allow access to anyone including f&w, I can promise you that everyone on this thread would get a lawyer and eventually get their deer back even though it's not the scenario the hunter wants.As soon as a f&w officer tells the landowner that he cannot touch that deer because it is going to be under investigation the landowner either doesn't want the hassle of court and will let f&w in to retrieve it or it will be taken as evidence and if the hunter can prove blood or snow showing he shot it on the allowance then the hunter will be allotted the deer and have a warning to be more careful next time.Case closed.Also I use " new world record " because lets get real if it was a doe nobody here would go through the hassle, let the landowner "win " this time

so if, just as the deer jumps the fence, the owner barrels over with his truck, jumps out and gives it a mercy shot, tags it, then proudly instructs you not to cross his property line, how is your legal team going to get your trophy back?, or should I ask how is your legal team going to get him to surrender his trophy to you?

[Lefty-Canuck]

From the Wildlife Act

Entry on and the passing over of land
66(1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without a
warrant, enter on and pass over any land while lawfully engaged in
the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions
given him or her by, or that otherwise relate to the enforcement of,
this Act, including those implied by section 65.
(2) Subsection (1) does not in itself authorize the entry into any
tent, building or other structure or any search or seizure.
(3) The officer or guardian, while lawfully engaged in the entry on
or the passing over of the land in accordance with subsection (1), is
liable only for damage that he or she wilfully causes.
RSA 2000 cW-10 s66;2002 c30 s33;2009 c36 s4



Now it would come down to is going on to private land to recover an animal for a hunter a duty of a F&W Officer? I guess if the officer had any questions as to whether it was a legit hunt or not they would. Sometimes it comes down to don't upset the apple cart, might not get any cooperation out of the land owner when you do need it.

I don't think retrieving game is listed under their duties and responsibilities? Unless it was part of an active investigation...for which they would likely obtain a warrant?

LC

[Acesneights]

I am for the most part just debating people's opinions here and trying to give a different view on it.And yes nobody really would ever wanna get a lawyer.However one scenario that bothers me and that's why I'm stating an opinion on the other side.I was hunting up north in bush country and I had shot my buck at a different location on the first day then after a couple of days everyone in my group had shot their deer and to waste some time one morning I went down this road allowance that is in between two proporties that I don't have permission just to go down and see some deer and hang out the day before we had to leave and I brought my gun just incase I seen a wolf. After sitting for ten minutes the landowner( which I know won't give anyone permission) came ripping up in his truck got out and started screaming at me telling me he's calling f&w.He really ****ed me off however I then pursued to play with him and ask him for permission then tried to lighten the mood.he didn't give up so I told him my name and kindly left.So my problem is he could've gone about it differently and introduced himself and talked with me instead of screaming at me.i even explained I wasn't really hunting.Now every time I go there I make a point of sitting there once.Sorry maybe I'm a d___.

[winged1]

(2) Subsection (1) does not in itself authorize the entry into any
tent, building or other structure or any search or seizure.

wouldn't looking for a downed deer on private property with the thought of returning it to a non permissed hunter be search and seizure? Personally, F&W officers are way too be busy with all the bad guys to be serving a hunter who can't find his deer.

[Donkey Oatey]

I don't think retrieving game is listed under their duties and responsibilities? Unless it was part of an active investigation...for which they would likely obtain a warrant?

LC

I don't think so either. But investigating if it was killed on private land without permission certainly would be.

As for search without warrant.

Search, etc., without warrant
71(1) If distance, urgency, the imminent danger of the loss,
removal, destruction or disappearance of evidence or other relevant
factors do not reasonably permit the obtaining of a warrant, a
wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without obtaining a
warrant,
(a) enter into and search any premises or a place, vehicle,
aircraft, boat or a building, tent or other structure,
(a.1) search any land lawfully entered on under section 66, or
(b) search any container, including a pack, or any
pack-animal,
if the officer or guardian believes on reasonable and probable
grounds that there is in or on it any evidence of an offence against
this Act.
(1.1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian who has reasonable
and probable grounds to believe that the lawful exercise of any
powers or the lawful performance of any duties or functions
referred to in section 66(1) necessitates the examination or
inspection of anything or any location referred to in subsection
(1)(a), (a.1) or (b) or of any subject animal or other property may,
without a warrant, perform that examination or inspection, as the
case may be.
(2) The officer or guardian shall not enter into or search the living
quarters of a private dwelling under this section unless the officer
or guardian is in immediate pursuit of a person who the officer or
guardian has reasonable and probable grounds to believe has
committed an offence against this Act.



So the entry on to land in this case would not need a warrant that I could see. It would not be an investigation against the land owner so would not infringe on their rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Again I am not sure it would be worth the trouble arguing and battling with the land owner for the officer.

[winged1]

I don't think so either. But investigating if it was killed on private land without permission certainly would be.

As for search without warrant.

Search, etc., without warrant
71(1) If distance, urgency, the imminent danger of the loss,
removal, destruction or disappearance of evidence or other relevant
factors do not reasonably permit the obtaining of a warrant, a
wildlife officer or wildlife guardian may, without obtaining a
warrant,
(a) enter into and search any premises or a place, vehicle,
aircraft, boat or a building, tent or other structure,
(a.1) search any land lawfully entered on under section 66, or
(b) search any container, including a pack, or any
pack-animal,
if the officer or guardian believes on reasonable and probable
grounds that there is in or on it any evidence of an offence against
this Act.
(1.1) A wildlife officer or wildlife guardian who has reasonable
and probable grounds to believe that the lawful exercise of any
powers or the lawful performance of any duties or functions
referred to in section 66(1) necessitates the examination or
inspection of anything or any location referred to in subsection
(1)(a), (a.1) or (b) or of any subject animal or other property may,
without a warrant, perform that examination or inspection, as the
case may be.
(2) The officer or guardian shall not enter into or search the living
quarters of a private dwelling under this section unless the officer
or guardian is in immediate pursuit of a person who the officer or
guardian has reasonable and probable grounds to believe has
committed an offence against this Act.



So the entry on to land in this case would not need a warrant that I could see. It would not be an investigation against the land owner so would not infringe on their rights against unreasonable search and seizure. Again I am not sure it would be worth the trouble arguing and battling with the land owner for the officer.

I don't think though that this in any way could be conscrued as expecting a wildlife officer to ensure your downed deer is recovered.

[elkhunter11]

So if a hunter shoots a new world record whitetail on a road allowance and it dies 10 ft on some prixs land who will not allow access to anyone including f&w, I can promise you that everyone on this thread would get a lawyer and eventually get their deer back even though it's not the scenario the hunter wants.As soon as a f&w officer tells the landowner that he cannot touch that deer because it is going to be under investigation the landowner either doesn't want the hassle of court and will let f&w in to retrieve it or it will be taken as evidence and if the hunter can prove blood or snow showing he shot it on the allowance then the hunter will be allotted the deer and have a warning to be more careful next time.Case closed.

Of course you are assuming that the F&W will arrive immediately. If the hunter was honest,the scenario would more likely be along the lines of:

-Hunters sees that deer is on private land and attempts to locate landowner.This might happen immediately, but it could take up to hours.

-Hunters asks landowner for permission to retrieve animal, and is denied, either because the landowner is being difficult, or because the hunter gave him attitude.

-Meanwhile hunter calls F&W, and waits for them to arrive. It's hunting season, so they are busy, so the hunter is told that it could take up to several hours for F&W to arrive.

-Hunter waits for hours, or perhaps until the next day, because confronting a landowner, in order to retrieve a deer isn't high on F&Ws priorities.

- F&W arrive, and investigates where the deer was shot, and if the hunter was within 200 yards of occupied buildings, of if he fired bullets that passed with 200 yards of occupied buildings. At the landowner's urging F&W could also examine the scene to see if the hunter fired bullets towards the landowners buildings,livestock or machinery, to make sure that the hunter was not using a firearm carelessly. F&W would also look to see if in fact the hunter had stepped onto the private property before they arrived, as even stepping on the edge of the property to look at the deer would be trespassing. The hunter would be trying to prove his case, but the landowner would be doing the same.

- If F&W is convinced that the deer was on the road allowance, when all shots were fired, and that the hunter committed no offenses, F&W could plead with the landowner to allow them to retrieve the deer from his land.

-If the landowner refuses, then it would come down to how sure the officers were, that they had grounds to enter the land to retrieve the deer, and how adamant the landowner was.


However, given a potential world record deer, being only 10 feet onto private property, the much more likely result is that the hunter would tresspass that 10 feet to retrieve the deer, rather than leave it laying there in order to try and find the landowner. If he was lucky enough to get away with it, he takes home a great deer. If he is seen doing it, he is fined, and likely loses the deer.

Then there are other possibilities, such as the landowner tagging it for himself. Once it was dressed, it would be very difficult to prove that it wasn't still alive when he arrived at the carcass.

Yet another possibility would be the landowner reallizing the trophy potential, and breaking off an antler, before F&W arrived to make the antlers unscoreable.Good luck proving that.

Landowners can be easy to get along with, and they can be difficult, and it often depends on your attitude towards them. If you show respect, you usually gain access, but if you show attitude, or demand access, they usually respond very negatively.

All in all, there are just too many things that can go wrong if you choose to hunt a road allowance with private land on both sides, and no permission to enter that private land.

[thefloormat]

to the original poster, PM me. Im not an alberta land surveyor, but I have been surveying for over 10 years now. I can probably give you an answer, that I will post here for everyone to know about GRA's

I have an ALS standing next to me at the moment that I will also ask questions, to make sure I put up the correct answer.

ANyone else have any questions, let me know, at the very least I can pull up the township Plat and look to see if a road allowance has been surveyed and then removed or if it still stands even though it may be undeveloped.

--->MAT

[remmy300]

Anyone that hunts on a road allowance, between two private properties that they don't have permission on is just asking for trouble. IMO, I see it as disrespectful to the land owners and the wildlife. In most cases they are just trying to steal a shot at game, because they are childish about the fact they can't obtain permission. Most times the game hops the fence and they proceed after it, with no regard about laws.......that's my experience with individuals doing such.

I totally agree 100%.

[AlazyS]

I don't mean this as a comment on your practice, just a question: Don't F&W have the right to access private land with or without permission in the course of their duties? Do they need to go find the landowner before they come onto the property to check licences, etc.? I would have thought they did have right of access, but i could be wrong.

By granting access, I mean they have the combo to the locks on the gate. Without this they would be hopping the fence. I just make it easier for them to perform their duties. :)

[Acesneights]

Five pages ohhhhh hot topic

[Okotokian]

By granting access, I mean they have the combo to the locks on the gate. Without this they would be hopping the fence. I just make it easier for them to perform their duties. :)
Ahhhh, gotcha. Thanks.

[Blackice1106]

In response to this I can say that Road Allowances, developed or undeveloped, are under the jurisdiction of the local municipality (County, MD, etc.) and no one has the right to restrict access to road allowances unless the municipality has received a request for road closure and lease or road closure and sale, and approved said request.
you need to read the regulations and understand shooting from a road allowance as there have been some changes.
If I want to hunt from an undeveloped road allowance 20.12m (66 feet) I can and there isn't anything you can do about it. If you have it fenced and do not have a lease you are restricting the publics access.
road allowances were put int place so that access to lands is possible. That means if you own a 1/4 section or more in the boonies, an undeveloped road allowance serves to provide you access. In most cases you would develop the road but that may not be required.
This is the same in all Alberta municipalities.

I work for a municipality and know the process.

[guywiththemule]

I don't mean this as a comment on your practice, just a question: Don't F&W have the right to access private land with or without permission in the course of their duties? Do they need to go find the landowner before they come onto the property to check licences, etc.? I would have thought they did have right of access, but i could be wrong.

If F&W are in "Hot Pursuit" they do not need permission from anybody to access private property.

[TBark]

I have just received the emailed docs from the County and we'll see if it's worth proceeding with. The docs outline a lot of what's been posted here already. Reason for application, will the closure isolate neighboring private land, vehicle access, crown land access ? All good points.

TBark

[hal53]

Five pages ohhhhh hot topic
It's 5 pages long, because most guys here would rather take their "chances" on a 66' wide strip than growing some Gnads and asking.....

[Kitscoty Bear Slayer(KBS)]

Exactly,rather cut the fence due to legalities,drive in the crop because its on the 66' strip,but not much mention of just plain old asking to hunt on the land.

[Acesneights]

It's 5 pages long, because most guys here would rather take their "chances" on a 66' wide strip than growing some Gnads and asking.....

You obviously haven't ran into a 66' patch of road allowance that has monster bucks on it every year and don't worry I have big gnads because even when the landowner who doesn't give permission was screaming in my face I asked him if he could let me on next year.i will revisite this post next year when yet again I shoot a 180+ whitey of the allowance and I drop him in his tracks.Also if you can't drop em in there tracks with a rifle maybe you just shouldn't make the shot.Bowzone, it should be illegal to bow hunt on a allowance cut and dry

[ctd]

I find it disturbing that many on here have suggested that they would not help a person who was legally hunting.
I also find it funny that many on here support a landowner who could perform an illegal act in claiming a dead animal on their property.g F&W

For those who do not know, which seems like more then a few on here as to what the laws are. I suggest you read more then just the hunting Regulations
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=W10.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=9780779760770&display=html

The Land Stewardship program is used to resolve issues between hunters and landowners. F&W use this as a tool to resolve conflicts between the two groups.
Yes F&W can and will help in the recovery of legally harvested wildlife from a uncoopertive landowner. Under the circumstances given.

Yes the landowner may argue all they want. But they have to allow access for the Officer to retrive the game.

As for the good judgment of a hunter hunting on the road allowance under the given scenerio, well that may be in question if their is a possiblity of the animal running off to property to which they have no permission.

[winged1]

I find it disturbing that many on here have suggested that they would not help a person who was legally hunting.
I also find it funny that many on here support a landowner who could perform an illegal act in claiming a dead animal on their property.g F&W

For those who do not know, which seems like more then a few on here as to what the laws are. I suggest you read more then just the hunting Regulations
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=W10.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=9780779760770&display=html

The Land Stewardship program is used to resolve issues between hunters and landowners. F&W use this as a tool to resolve conflicts between the two groups.
Yes F&W can and will help in the recovery of legally harvested wildlife from a uncoopertive landowner. Under the circumstances given.

Yes the landowner may argue all they want. But they have to allow access for the Officer to retrive the game.

As for the good judgment of a hunter hunting on the road allowance under the given scenerio, well that may be in question if their is a possiblity of the animal running off to property to which they have no permission.

Even the most successfull lawyers, debate written law and it's interpretation. So until one of us can point to a precedent setting decision, it's a matter of interpretation.

What really disturbes me is the flip flop between base line legal and ethical conduct, and how quickly most fold under when the stakes are raised.

What I gather from your comments is to go ahead and shoot deer on the privately bound strip, cause F&W are on your side.

[elkhunter11]

What I gather from your comments is to go ahead and shoot deer on the privately bound strip, cause F&W are on your side.


Then again that could change rapidly. If you find yourself in the situation where the landowner denies access, and you call F&W, you need to realize that they are too few in number, and are very busy at that time of year. It can take them hours, or even days to respond to a RAP call reporting poaching, so I wouldn't count on them dropping everything to rush out to help someone retrieve an animal. if it takes them hours to respond, and it is warm out, the animal can spoil, and all that the hunter can do is sit and wait while it happens. The landowner did not take part in killing the animal, so he has no obligation to prevent it from spoiling.
And if F&W do respond, you had better make sure that the physical evidence supports your claim that you shot the animal on land that you had access to. If the first sign of blood or hair doesn't appear until the private land, it will be your word that you shot it on land where you had access, against the landowners word that you shot it on his land, with the physical evidence supporting the landowner's claim. What do you suppose that F&W will do in that situation? They certainly won't be on your side then. And given the fact, that it is common for there to be no blood for 50 or 100 yards after the bullet strikes, that isn't a rare situation at all. You could call F&W to get them to help you, and end up with them charging you instead.

[j m]

Thanks for the link ctd, I've been looking for that online for a while now. It will get a good read over the winter.

I disagree with you on something in your post.
Yes the landowner may argue all they want. But they have to allow access for the Officer to retrive the game.

The CO has the right to enter any land to investigate but has no right to seize or remove anything from the property if no infraction is found. So if a deer is legally shot from a road allowance and dies off it no one but the LO can retrieve it without consent. If the landowner requests a found dead permit to keep the meat from wasting he is fullfilling this obligation so can't be charged with wasting the animal if the permit is refused.

[winged1]

Then again that could change rapidly. If you find yourself in the situation where the landowner denies access, and you call F&W, you need to realize that they are too few in number, and are very busy at that time of year. It can take them hours, or even days to respond to a RAP call reporting poaching, so I wouldn't count on them dropping everything to rush out to help someone retrieve an animal. if it takes them hours to respond, and it is warm out, the animal can spoil, and all that the hunter can do is sit and wait while it happens. The landowner did not take part in killing the animal, so he has no obligation to prevent it from spoiling.
And if F&W do respond, you had better make sure that the physical evidence supports your claim that you shot the animal on land that you had access to. If the first sign of blood or hair doesn't appear until the private land, it will be your word that you shot it on land where you had access, against the landowners word that you shot it on his land, with the physical evidence supporting the landowner's claim. What do you suppose that F&W will do in that situation? They certainly won't be on your side then. And given the fact, that it is common for there to be no blood for 50 or 100 yards after the bullet strikes, that isn't a rare situation at all. You could call F&W to get them to help you, and end up with them charging you instead.

I agree 100%, and would further add, that to even deliver a shot upon big game in that situation, without previously obtaining access permissions, would be unethical, based on the simple fact that your prey will, in all likely hood, make it onto those private lands. You now knowingly, or should have known, that you are unable to track and dispatch that animal, or to ensure it's timely recovery. I'm sure F&W have an opinion on that, and are not too impressed when a hunter is unable to manage his actions in such regard. If, as you say, that delayed recovery results in wastage, this is the action of the hunter, not the landowner, nor F&W who are too busy to respond.

My God, when are these boneheads going to take some responsibility.

[longshot270]

Crazy all this thought just for a guy who wants to go out and possibly shoot a deer, or whatever. Landowners who want to own the land they don't own so a person can't hunt any where near them, and people who don't own land who want to hunt any possible land they can. I grew up in a farming family, my dad, 2 uncles and a grandpa, who all owned land. The only time I ever would have guessed they might have gotten upset with someone driving on their land would have been if there was a crop in it. I fully understand a landowner not wanting people on their land, and if this is known then you don't hunt there. I can not in any way understand if a deer happens to die on their land why they wouldn't help buddy get his deer. Do they have grow-ops they don't want people to see, paranoid the world is coming to get them or what? It's a deer (for example) not the winning lotto max ticket. A deer is not made of solid gold. Most hunters are not trying to scope out your yard to come steal it. If a few bad eggs have spoiled it for the rest that is pretty sad, but for all these posts saying if its on my land I would just be difficult to be difficult and hope the deer goes to waste, really. Thats just sad, the world is not that bad of place, maybe take up yoga and start learning to relax. And for the guys who think just because they have trail cam pics of a certain old big buck, and sheds, etc. guess what you don't own that deer either. NO ONE does, so don't get all steamed up when joe blow or his 15 yr old daughter happen to see it, walk down a right of way and happen to shoot it and take it home. If it is done legally good for them. If this happened to me guess what, they were in the right place at the right time, and if I happened to see them, I would help them load it up and be glad someone got him. Maybe ask for a pic though, LOL. We are only hunting animals we are not hoarding oxygen so if I get it before you, you will die. My goodness some people need to relax. Remember, Breathe in, Breathe out.

[winged1]

Crazy all this thought just for a guy who wants to go out and possibly shoot a deer, or whatever. Landowners who want to own the land they don't own so a person can't hunt any where near them, and people who don't own land who want to hunt any possible land they can. I grew up in a farming family, my dad, 2 uncles and a grandpa, who all owned land. The only time I ever would have guessed they might have gotten upset with someone driving on their land would have been if there was a crop in it. I fully understand a landowner not wanting people on their land, and if this is known then you don't hunt there. I can not in any way understand if a deer happens to die on their land why they wouldn't help buddy get his deer. Do they have grow-ops they don't want people to see, paranoid the world is coming to get them or what? It's a deer (for example) not the winning lotto max ticket. A deer is not made of solid gold. Most hunters are not trying to scope out your yard to come steal it. If a few bad eggs have spoiled it for the rest that is pretty sad, but for all these posts saying if its on my land I would just be difficult to be difficult and hope the deer goes to waste, really. Thats just sad, the world is not that bad of place, maybe take up yoga and start learning to relax. And for the guys who think just because they have trail cam pics of a certain old big buck, and sheds, etc. guess what you don't own that deer either. NO ONE does, so don't get all steamed up when joe blow or his 15 yr old daughter happen to see it, walk down a right of way and happen to shoot it and take it home. If it is done legally good for them. If this happened to me guess what, they were in the right place at the right time, and if I happened to see them, I would help them load it up and be glad someone got him. Maybe ask for a pic though, LOL. We are only hunting animals we are not hoarding oxygen so if I get it before you, you will die. My goodness some people need to relax. Remember, Breathe in, Breathe out.

I like your line of thinking. The problem is the relationship us hunters have with landowners, or more specifically, the bad apples that result in denial of access. We as hunters should be mounting a unified approach to mend injured relationships for the betterment of the sport. It's forums like this that can be the catalyst. I personally don't have problems with access. Where I can't get it, I don't hunt, but I always make it a point to sell the advantage of trusting relationships. The tightening of access laws has come about for a reason, and those that have created that desire within landowners, should be challenged.

What really burns my butt, is that with any intelligence, one needs to acknowledge that there are bad hunters out there, and that they find thier way onto this forum. We listen to thier garbage, knowing that thier field practices are injurious, all the time the regulations are tightening down on the hunting experience here in the province. Hey everyone, Alberta has liberal hunting regulations, come enjoy and blast away. Makes me sick.

[Kurt505]

Crazy all this thought just for a guy who wants to go out and possibly shoot a deer, or whatever. Landowners who want to own the land they don't own so a person can't hunt any where near them, and people who don't own land who want to hunt any possible land they can. I grew up in a farming family, my dad, 2 uncles and a grandpa, who all owned land. The only time I ever would have guessed they might have gotten upset with someone driving on their land would have been if there was a crop in it. I fully understand a landowner not wanting people on their land, and if this is known then you don't hunt there. I can not in any way understand if a deer happens to die on their land why they wouldn't help buddy get his deer. Do they have grow-ops they don't want people to see, paranoid the world is coming to get them or what? It's a deer (for example) not the winning lotto max ticket. A deer is not made of solid gold. Most hunters are not trying to scope out your yard to come steal it. If a few bad eggs have spoiled it for the rest that is pretty sad, but for all these posts saying if its on my land I would just be difficult to be difficult and hope the deer goes to waste, really. Thats just sad, the world is not that bad of place, maybe take up yoga and start learning to relax. And for the guys who think just because they have trail cam pics of a certain old big buck, and sheds, etc. guess what you don't own that deer either. NO ONE does, so don't get all steamed up when joe blow or his 15 yr old daughter happen to see it, walk down a right of way and happen to shoot it and take it home. If it is done legally good for them. If this happened to me guess what, they were in the right place at the right time, and if I happened to see them, I would help them load it up and be glad someone got him. Maybe ask for a pic though, LOL. We are only hunting animals we are not hoarding oxygen so if I get it before you, you will die. My goodness some people need to relax. Remember, Breathe in, Breathe out.


X2!

This is exactly what it boils down to. I live in the city but I own a quarter section of land so I know how it feels on both sides of the fence. The only land owners that want to restrict road allowance access are those who don't want people hunting "their" deer! Plain and simple. I wish it was possible to turn the tables and kick these "I own all the animals around here" farmers off city streets. Greed is what it is. I'm a land owner, guide, and still let people hunt on my land. Ask permission, don't drive on the hey field, I'll get it for you, or drag it off is the rule. If someone asks permission and gets denied, if it's not greed what is it? I know there are acceptions ie: live stock or buildings, but if they ask permission and you know who's there, what else would be the reason for denying access?

[ishootbambi]

this thread makes me wanna puke. there are a few landowners in it wanting to save things that dont belong to them for their own private party, and a few hunters that think they are entitled to whatever they want and the world owes them. thank goodness there are a few decent guys as well that understand that hunters and landowners are essential to one another and that a good relationship between the two sides creates the best possible situation for all. no explanation needed for who fits where......its blatantly obvious who is who......

[Houndogn]

X2!

This is exactly what it boils down to. I live in the city but I own a quarter section of land so I know how it feels on both sides of the fence. The only land owners that want to restrict road allowance access are those who don't want people hunting "their" deer! Plain and simple. I'm a land owner, guide, and still let people hunt on my land. Ask permission, don't drive on the hey field, I'll get it for you, or drag it off is the rule. If someone asks permission and gets denied, if it's not greed what is it? I know there are acceptions ie: live stock or buildings, but if they ask permission and you know who's there, what else would be the reason for denying access?

"I wish it was possible to turn the tables and kick these.I own all the animals around here" farmers off city streets. Greed is what it is Well we all pay taxes for the streets,,,,do u pay my taxes? I think not. I don't own the animals, but i own my land and i pay those taxes too, and if i don't want every jack-ss running around on it that is my prerogitive. And if i let a select few hunt here so be it, my bussiness. MY HARD WORK PAID for it not every person that drives by. And no i don't have a grow-op to hide, in fact i have nothing to hide, but i still don't think that i owe anyone access.

[Kurt505]

"I wish it was possible to turn the tables and kick these.I own all the animals around here" farmers off city streets. Greed is what it is Well we all pay taxes for the streets,,,,do u pay my taxes? I think not. I don't own the animals, but i own my land and i pay those taxes too, and if i don't want every jack-ss running around on it that is my prerogitive. And if i let a select few hunt here so be it, my bussiness. MY HARD WORK PAID for it not every person that drives by. And no i don't have a grow-op to hide, in fact i have nothing to hide, but i still don't think that i owe anyone access.


You don't pay taxes on my land! You didn't high light the part where I said I was a land owner as well. The topic here is restricting road allowance access. If you don't want anyone to hunt on your land, that's your business, I'm talking about road allowance access. I pay just as much of your taxes as you do mine. Like I said, there are a few people out there I wish I could turn the tables on.

[greywolf]

I agree 100%, and would further add, that to even deliver a shot upon big game in that situation, without previously obtaining access permissions, would be unethical, based on the simple fact that your prey will, in all likely hood, make it onto those private lands. You now knowingly, or should have known, that you are unable to track and dispatch that animal, or to ensure it's timely recovery. I'm sure F&W have an opinion on that, and are not too impressed when a hunter is unable to manage his actions in such regard. If, as you say, that delayed recovery results in wastage, this is the action of the hunter, not the landowner, nor F&W who are too busy to respond.

My God, when are these boneheads going to take some responsibility.

Whats a hunter to do if the previous attempt to gain access failed.???
He either leaves and hunts elsewhere or he hunts the road allowance. If the hunter shoots something on the road allowance and it dies on the allowance, great.
If the animal jumps the fence and dies on the private land just remember, the hunter did nothing illegal.

[Houndogn]

i was refering to your wish to kick people off city streets, and the comment of refusing access being greedy, and there not being any reasonable reasons for it. public allowances are just that public as are city streets....doesn't give me the RIGHT to your lawn ! or your Driveway ? Does it ?

[Kurt505]

i was refering to your wish to kick people off city streets, and the comment of refusing access being greedy, and there not being any reasonable reasons for it. public allowances are just that public as are city streets....doesn't give me the RIGHT to your lawn ! or your Driveway ? Does it ?

If you want to come sit on my lawn, knock yourself out. If you or anyone else asks to hunt on my quarter the answer has been and will always be yes. If someone asks for permission, then I know who's on there so if anything happens I know who to talk to. I can understand if there already is someone else hunting on there, but that's not what I'm talking about. Restricting the use of road allowance access, or making it difficult for the other tax paying Canadians to enjoy hunting season. That type of attitude is what's going to make hunting in Canada like trying to hunt in the states.

[greywolf]

i was refering to your wish to kick people off city streets, and the comment of refusing access being greedy, and there not being any reasonable reasons for it. public allowances are just that public as are city streets....doesn't give me the RIGHT to your lawn ! or your Driveway ? Does it ?.

Good point,

Question for rural landowners in this thread??
your're walking down our city street and your kids ball that he was bouncing ends up on my private property, you wouldn't think for a moment about tresspassing on my land to retrieve your ball would you????

How would you feel if I was outside and told you that you cannot access my land to retrieve your ball....
or better yet, if I were a total idiot, :angry3:, (whatever) how would you like it if I told you that if you step on my property I will sick my 2 bull terriors on you????


We city folks have no issues with you rural people coming into town and shopping for meat,

so whats the big deal if we want to come out to the country and shop for ours???

[j m]

hunters and landowners are essential to one another.
That would be laughable if it was meant as a joke.
Several farmers here that have allowed access to anyone in the past closed their land off to all but a few people they trust last fall. Their reason was that the hunters they allowed on to control crop damage did more damage than the animals. One fellow they had let on 2 years previous had watched a field for almost a month while a herd of elk completely wiped out the pea crop in it. He didn't want to spook a whitetail buck he was after there so wouldn't tell the LO about the elk. $50,000 in damages for a deer the guy didn't even get.

essential to one another? :snapoutofit:

:angry3:

[Houndogn]

[QUOTE=greywolf;1195892].

Good point,

Question for rural landowners in this thread??
your're walking down our city street and your kids ball that he was bouncing ends up on my private property, you wouldn't think for a moment about tresspassing on my land to retrieve your ball would you????

How would you feel if I was outside and told you that you cannot access my land to retrieve your ball....
or better yet, if I were a total idiot, :angry3:, (whatever) how would you like it if I told you that if you step on my property I will sick my 2 bull terriors on you????

No in fact i wouldn't go onto your lawn...Kid should take better care of his toys, I shouldn't have let him throw his ball around. No problem if u want to keep the ball, its all urs.....and well if u threatened me, a whole new ball game..LOL P.S.. so glad u said "our" city street, cause i just know you were including us rural folks in that OUR....:love0025:

[greywolf]

[QUOTE=greywolf;1195892].

Good point,

Question for rural landowners in this thread??
your're walking down our city street and your kids ball that he was bouncing ends up on my private property, you wouldn't think for a moment about tresspassing on my land to retrieve your ball would you????

How would you feel if I was outside and told you that you cannot access my land to retrieve your ball....
or better yet, if I were a total idiot, :angry3:, (whatever) how would you like it if I told you that if you step on my property I will sick my 2 bull terriors on you????

No in fact i wouldn't go onto your lawn...Kid should take better care of his toys, I shouldn't have let him throw his ball around. No problem if u want to keep the ball, its all urs.....and well if u threatened me, a whole new ball game..LOL P.S.. so glad u said "our" city street, cause i just know you were including us rural folks in that OUR....:love0025:

"our" city streets, yes;
no different then "our" road allowances...

you get my point????

[Houndogn]

You bettcha

[j m]

.

Good point,

Question for rural landowners in this thread??
your're walking down our city street and your kids ball that he was bouncing ends up on my private property, you wouldn't think for a moment about tresspassing on my land to retrieve your ball would you????

How would you feel if I was outside and told you that you cannot access my land to retrieve your ball....
or better yet, if I were a total idiot, :angry3:, (whatever) how would you like it if I told you that if you step on my property I will sick my 2 bull terriors on you????


We city folks have no issues with you rural people coming into town and shopping for meat,

so whats the big deal if we want to come out to the country and shop for ours???

If I was in a situation like that I would walk to the door & ring the bell to retrieve it. I you denied I would tell my child "See, I told you what could happen. We've walked past here every day this week and every day you banged your ball against that person's fence. They've asked you nicely not to do it but you wouldn't because you know your rights & it's public property right to the fence. You didn't care they were trying to get their baby to sleep. They told you that if the ball comes over the fence you can't come get it because they've freshly seeded their lawn. Now that you've lost your ball we might as well turn around and go home; you can tell me what you learned today on the way."
The difference is that my child wouldn't have a ball magically appear in their hand after they threw the first one over the fence, I wouldn't tear down your fence to get the ball & my kid doesn't throw a 165 grain ball that goes 2800 fps.

[greywolf]

That would be laughable if it was meant as a joke.
Several farmers here that have allowed access to anyone in the past closed their land off to all but a few people they trust last fall. Their reason was that the hunters they allowed on to control crop damage did more damage than the animals. One fellow they had let on 2 years previous had watched a field for almost a month while a herd of elk completely wiped out the pea crop in it. He didn't want to spook a whitetail buck he was after there so wouldn't tell the LO about the elk. $50,000 in damages for a deer the guy didn't even get.

essential to one another? :snapoutofit:

:angry3:

Unfortunate for the farmer in the case, but,
where was the farmer for the month when the herd of elk caused 50K in damages????? Does he not monitor his land better than that???? or was the one individual hunter suppose to have some ownership in this????

[j m]

....dt.....

[j m]

He was busy harvesting other land and had a supposedly responsible person watching it. The hunter had pleaded to have sole access to that spot and did promise to report elk damage in return.

[Kurt505]

If I was in a situation like that I would walk to the door & ring the bell to retrieve it. I you denied I would tell my child "See, I told you what could happen. We've walked past here every day this week and every day you banged your ball against that person's fence. They've asked you nicely not to do it but you wouldn't because you know your rights & it's public property right to the fence. You didn't care they were trying to get their baby to sleep. They told you that if the ball comes over the fence you can't come get it because they've freshly seeded their lawn. Now that you've lost your ball we might as well turn around and go home; you can tell me what you learned today on the way."
The difference is that my child wouldn't have a ball magically appear in their hand after they threw the first one over the fence, I wouldn't tear down your fence to get the ball & my kid doesn't throw a 165 grain ball that goes 2800 fps.

Ahhhhhhhh ha ha ha! The people who get offended by someone's ball going in their yard are the same type of people who would get offended by a deer dropping on their land. Poor excuses.

[decker]

X2!

This is exactly what it boils down to. I live in the city but I own a quarter section of land so I know how it feels on both sides of the fence. The only land owners that want to restrict road allowance access are those who don't want people hunting "their" deer! Plain and simple. I wish it was possible to turn the tables and kick these "I own all the animals around here" farmers off city streets. Greed is what it is. I'm a land owner, guide, and still let people hunt on my land. Ask permission, don't drive on the hey field, I'll get it for you, or drag it off is the rule. If someone asks permission and gets denied, if it's not greed what is it? I know there are acceptions ie: live stock or buildings, but if they ask permission and you know who's there, what else would be the reason for denying access?
Thats the difference right there, you live in the city and have land in the country.
Rural people live in the country. Our animals are in the fields, our kids have to walk to and from the bus and that time is usually prime hunting time.
I live down a dead end road and there is no hunting on both sides of the fence for two miles yet there are alot of tracks that come to my drive way and turnaround. It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[Kurt505]

Thats the difference right there, you live in the city and have land in the country.
Rural people live in the country. Our animals are in the fields, our kids have to walk to and from the bus and that time is usually prime hunting time.
I live down a dead end road and there is no hunting on both sides of the fence for two miles yet there are alot of tracks that come to my drive way and turnaround. It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

You have to read my earlier posts. I'm not bashing people for keeping hunters off for good reasons ie: livestock or buildings. This is the case in point that got me a bit upset:

First off, a local farmer blocked off a 1mile long road allowance that led to a cutline on crown land. That's fine, there are other ways around. Then posted his leased land saying he bought it out and denied hunting access there. This year he took it to a new level by knocking down trees, a lot of them, accross a cutline to prevent access to the cutline that runs behind his land (the other way around). This is the type of person I wish I could keep out of the city. It's not because of people damaging his property, it's simply because he wants the game around there for himself. I know this for fact, I've been hunting the same area for over 20yrs and know him.

[decker]

You have to read my earlier posts. I'm not bashing people for keeping hunters off for good reasons ie: livestock or buildings. This is the case in point that got me a bit upset:

First off, a local farmer blocked off a 1mile long road allowance that led to a cutline on crown land. That's fine, there are other ways around. Then posted his leased land saying he bought it out and denied hunting access there. This year he took it to a new level by knocking down trees, a lot of them, accross a cutline to prevent access to the cutline that runs behind his land (the other way around). This is the type of person I wish I could keep out of the city. It's not because of people damaging his property, it's simply because he wants the game around there for himself. I know this for fact, I've been hunting the same area for over 20yrs and know him.

Ya thats not right.

[igorot]

Here is a fairy tale to at least calm the situation:medium-smiley-035: This is what happen when you are out of work for a month. You start day dreaming :evilgrin:


Scenario 1

Robin Hood from Calgaree went out to the country to hunt. He was very respectful, ask permission and did all the legal thing in order for him to gain access. He happens to ask a landowner who was so mean. He scolded, berated, and almost spit on poor Robin face. Since Robin is kind gentleman, he just went back to the city where he belong.

For some reason somebody from the landowner family got sick and needs a specialist. As much as he hates to go to the city, he has no option as the only facility is in the city. There is more, the only specialist that handle that disease is Robin Hood. Who happens to be a very good doctor. Robin Hood being gentleman, despite all how he was treated by the landowner performs the procedure.

Scenario 2


Robin no Good from Calgaree with his black dodge dually:medium-smiley-035: went to hunt in the country. Being a pin head he went driving on the landowners land without permission, cutting fences and wrecking havoc on cattles. He then finally shot a deer, but during his retrieval he injured himself and remain unconscious. No souls on this this neck of the woods for miles and his chances for survival is if somebody finds him.

Comes the kind hearted landowner and discover Robin no Good and all the damage he has done on his land. Despite his anger , all the money to be spent and manpower to fix the damages he helps Robin no Good and bring him to the nearest hospital where he eventually lives

[coreya3212]

So we know that the ball is owned by the kid who dropped it on someone else's property. Who owns the deer that is shot on public land but crosses on to private land...personally, I would let the kid retrieve his ball, cause its his and he has a right to it. The hunter who shoots a deer, that isn't his, and can't retrieve it to tag it and make it his doesn't have much right to that deer does he?:thinking-006:

[greywolf]

So we know that the ball is owned by the kid who dropped it on someone else's property. Who owns the deer that is shot on public land but crosses on to private land...personally, I would let the kid retrieve his ball, cause its his and he has a right to it. The hunter who shoots a deer, that isn't his, and can't retrieve it to tag it and make it his doesn't have much right to that deer does he?:thinking-006:

Just because it dies on private property does not make it the landowners deer either does it???

Like I said earlier, if you have an issue with a problem landowner, it just takes one phone call and your help is on the way.

[elkhunter11]

Like I said earlier, if you have an issue with a problem landowner, it just takes one phone call and your help is on the way.

As has been previously posted,F&W are usually busy that time of year, and they aren't usually thrilled to drop all of their other duties to intervene in a hunter landowner dispute. They may not show for hours, if at all.And they will only consider helping you, if the physical evidence indicates that the animal was shot where you had legal access. If the blood or hair don't exist until the private property, they may actually end up laying charges against you for shooting the animal on land that you did not have legal access to. As well, even if the first shot hit the animal when it was on land that you had legal access to, there had better not be any evidence indicating that follow up shots struck the animal when it was on the private land.

[winged1]

nor do they provide baby sitting or diaper service.

[Kurt505]

This thread makes me want to start hunting road allowances. It's my land to hunt, so I might as well take advantage of it. Looks like I got a couple honey holes for next year.

[Lefty-Canuck]

This thread makes me want to start hunting road allowances. It's my land to hunt, so I might as well take advantage of it. Looks like I got a couple honey holes for next year.

Heck why wait till next year....still some eastern zones that are open!... think you can road hunt and hit a bunch of allowances in a day....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

LC

[Kurt505]

Heck why wait till next year....still some eastern zones that are open!... think you can road hunt and hit a bunch of allowances in a day....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

LC

I've got my freezers full, besides, there's a certain road allowance I've been eyeing up for a couple years that I know hold a couple bruisers.

[Dark]

Kurt505 are you a guide in WMU 505, perhaps worked with a guy named Bud

[Kurt505]

Kurt505 are you a guide in WMU 505, perhaps worked with a guy named Bud

Lol, was a guide (just gave it up last year), and I know Bud. I got him a job at the company I used to work for about 6yrs ago. I still see the bushy fir hat around, but haven't spoke with him in a few years. You must hunt the valley and know of said farmer I speak of?

[greywolf]

As has been previously posted,F&W are usually busy that time of year, and they aren't usually thrilled to drop all of their other duties to intervene in a hunter landowner dispute. They may not show for hours, if at all.And they will only consider helping you, if the physical evidence indicates that the animal was shot where you had legal access. If the blood or hair don't exist until the private property, they may actually end up laying charges against you for shooting the animal on land that you did not have legal access to. As well, even if the first shot hit the animal when it was on land that you had legal access to, there had better not be any evidence indicating that follow up shots struck the animal when it was on the private land.

We are all entitiled to our opinions; a lot of what if's in your example.

Based on my personal experience, other peoples experiences, and conversations with F&W over the years on this topic, I have to disagree with your opinions on F&W's response on this matter. Thats not to say F&W may do things differently in your neck of the woods I guess.

[elkhunter11]

Based on my personal experience, other peoples experiences, and conversations with F&W over the years on this topic, I have to disagree with your opinions on F&W's response on this matter. Thats not to say F&W may do things differently in your neck of the woods I guess.

My opinons are based on past experiences of people that I know, and from dealing with F&W myself. I have called the RAP hotline myself, as have others, and the response time was measured in hours not minutes, if they decided to show at all. A longtime officer(now retired) and personal friend of my fathers, told us that himself, and the officers that he knew hated dealing with cases such as landowner/hunter disputes, as well as issues dealing with natives tresspassing or poaching, so they made a habit of dealing with any other outstanding calls or investigations first.

[winged1]

you can bet that during the hunting season, there are way more calls alleging infractions than there are hunters looking to recover game, and those take precedence. One of the most productive tactics is to block an arterial road from known hunting grounds. Officers aren't stupid. They're keen to the call which attempts to temporarily remove them from thier post, so someone can sneak through. I've reported infractions to officers at such a post, and thier response was, 'we'll catch them when they come through'. Yes, there are officers that attend localized hot spots and may be available for a visit, but assuming such as justification to shoot, isn't responsible. I also suspect that their first activity upon such a call would be to call the owner and mediate over the phone, unless they smell an infraction.

[Dark]

Lol, was a guide (just gave it up last year), and I know Bud. I got him a job at the company I used to work for about 6yrs ago. I still see the bushy fir hat around, but haven't spoke with him in a few years. You must hunt the valley and know of said farmer I speak of?

You have talked with my brothers they are the sprinkler fitters that took Bud out there for his first time.
We don't hunt much out there anymore, not since Tim's became a parking lot.

I think you are referring to the guy that has his set up right on the river banks at the dead end road. I found a dandy wolf killed buck on the river right below his trailers a few years back.

[Kurt505]

You have talked with my brothers they are the sprinkler fitters that took Bud out there for his first time.
We don't hunt much out there anymore, not since Tim's became a parking lot.

I think you are referring to the guy that has his set up right on the river banks at the dead end road. I found a dandy wolf killed buck on the river right below his trailers a few years back.

Ya, I haven't seen your brothers out there for a couple years. I gave Tim's son my Darton wrangler compound bow because he wanted to get into hunting, now Tim's, and the whole south side of the road for a 4 mile stretch is shut down for hunting. The road allowance is blocked off, the cutline on the south end of the fields is blocked by a couple dozen trees, and trying to get permission on the lease is impossible. I've created a greedy monster by introducing him into hunting. I took two bucks that grossed over 170 from there. No good deed goes un-noticed they say.

[fargineyesore]

Hehe...good one.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/honda450990/If2520Youre2520Dumb___You2520Better2520Be2520Tough .jpg
Hahaha, that's got to be one of the funniest things I've seen for awhile.