insurance coverage for ice break through

[Brock1]

I just called my provider. Meloche Monex TD and asked them if I am covered if my vehicle goes through the ice on a lake. I won't make this a long post , but he confirmed that I am covered with my comprehensive which included submersin in water and removal. I would have to pay my 250 deductible, contact the insurance company and they would make arrangements to remove the vehicle from the water.

as long as my cell phone wasn't in the truck.....

B.

[pophouseman]

I spoke with Intact (who I have insurance with) They explained to me that my comprehensive coverage covers being submersed in water and the cost of removal....HOWEVER, If I leave government classified "ROADS" to engage willingly in an activity (such as ice fishing, offroading etc) I am NOT covered.

The wording for being covered in cases of "Submerged in water" refers to accidents only. (with Intact anyways)

you may want to confirm this with TD

[DarkAisling]

HOWEVER, If I leave government classified "ROADS" to engage willingly in an activity (such as ice fishing, offroading etc) I am NOT covered.

Curious. We are with Intact, and our broker has told both hubby and I that we are covered in the event we go off road and then go through the ice. I wonder if something has changed with Intact's policies recently?

[skiwili]

I also have insurrance with Meloche Monex TD. that's good news for me so now I can go drive on the ice :sHa_shakeshout: just kidding :)

[marlin1]

Curious. We are with Intact, and our broker has told both hubby and I that we are covered in the event we go off road and then go through the ice. I wonder if something has changed with Intact's policies recently?

I think the key here is willingly leaving the road . If you drive out off the road onto a lake you probably aren't covered .

[pophouseman]

Curious. We are with Intact, and our broker has told both hubby and I that we are covered in the event we go off road and then go through the ice. I wonder if something has changed with Intact's policies recently?

The way it was explained to me is that If I fly off a patch of black ice into a lake/slough/river then I am covered. If I drive out to the middle of a lake and set up and start ice fishing and the truck falls through, I am S.O.L .

It is the same with off roading, if you are running trails in a $40,000 brand new truck and you roll it going up on a hill climb you are also S.O.L

[billie]

Relayed from a licensed broker:

Standard vehicle policy in Alberta does not exclude off-road of any kind but specific exclusions may be made by companies for any specific policy. In other words, your collision coverage will cover you for off road unless a specific exclusion was made to your policy and you would have to be made aware of it (did you read before you sgned?).

ATV's have collision coverage....:thinking-006:

[Sundancefisher]

The way it was explained to me is that If I fly off a patch of black ice into a lake/slough/river then I am covered. If I drive out to the middle of a lake and set up and start ice fishing and the truck falls through, I am S.O.L .

It is the same with off roading, if you are running trails in a $40,000 brand new truck and you roll it going up on a hill climb you are also S.O.L

This has come up in the past and there is definitely confusion. I would suggest someone write their insurance company an email quoting their policy number and ask them specifically. "If you go off road, drive onto an ice covered lake to go ice fishing, do you have full insurance coverage."

[dxa187]

Here in Quebec your on your owne... No insurance if you drive over a frozen lake or river... There must be a street name tu insure you...But Cops can give you a ticket on the ice for going over 50KM!!! ...Don't know if the cops are going to ask for my proof of insurance??? :snapoutofit:

[DarkAisling]

I think the key here is willingly leaving the road . If you drive out off the road onto a lake you probably aren't covered .

Our broker was fully aware of what we were asking about (I phoned him to double check what hubby had been told when he phoned), as we both specified that it was for ice fishing, and we wanted to make sure that both of our trucks were covered for repair/replacement, recovery, and related expenses if we went in after having driven our trucks onto a frozen lake. We were assured that we were fully covered.

[Isopod]

I don't think I'd trust the insurance broker about this unless I had it in writing and maybe not even then. It is the insurance *adjuster* who would ultimately decide whether a policy covers a vehicle through the ice, not your broker. I would be surprised if any insurance policy doesn't exclude coverage in the case of intentional damage or damage through neglect, and driving a vehicle onto ice that is obviously too thin (because your vehicle fell through) would seem a pretty clear case of neglect. My two cents.

[DarkAisling]

I don't think I'd trust the insurance broker about this unless I had it in writing and maybe not even then. It is the insurance *adjuster* who would ultimately decide whether a policy covers a vehicle through the ice, not your broker. I would be surprised if any insurance policy doesn't exclude coverage in the case of intentional damage or damage through neglect, and driving a vehicle onto ice that is obviously too thin (because your vehicle fell through) would seem a pretty clear case of neglect. My two cents.

It is my broker who designs my policy for me. He is the one who ensures that I am covered in the way I wish to be covered. Insurance adjusters do not sell or design policies. And, damage through "neglect" could account for just about every situation where an insurance claim was filed.

We've had great luck with our broker and Intact. In fact, we drove our travel trailer into a tree (clearly a case of "neglect" . . . as the tree didn't run out in front of us) and having the claim approved was not an issue.

In any case, there are several threads on the forum where people have gone through the ice and discovered afterwards that they were covered. I can't think of one case since I've been a member of the forum where the individual who went through the ice wasn't covered. Being covered certainly seems to be more common than not.

[iliketrout]

Driving too fast on a slippery road and wrecking a vehicle is no less negligent. Can an insurance company deny coverage based on negelct only?

[Bound2Fish]

I was with Meloche for years. I was also curious about this and asked them a few years ago if I was covered as I was doing alot of ice fishing at the time. They gave me a stern "NO" as they only cover me to drive on recognized road ways and that if the truck did fall through the ice, I would be liable for any and all damages and expenses incurred for my negligence.

I have since moved on and now use a broker, as they can fit you into a policy that will actually suit your needs.

[TrollGRG]

Whoever you are with, and whatever they say - GET IT IN WRITING.

[Okotokian]

If you don't have proper insurance for your vehicle going through the ice, you are an idiot!

Ooops, wrong thread... sorry :scared0018:

(oh come on. Smile)

[Isopod]

Okay, I see the point people are making about how "neglect" could include just about anything where you have an accident. I'm still uneasy about coverage for falling into a lake though, it seems a special situation somehow. I should check with out Intact broker and see if they say the same thing. That'll probably end up in the procrastination pile though...

[Eddy62]

good post and makes ya think twice about driving on the ice.i am checking it out tomorrow with ama thats for sure...

[1shotwade]

My uncle put his truck thru a lake 2 years ago and thought he was covered and he wasn't! He tried to sue TD meloche monnex and no lawyer would take his case! i just phoned him and he said no insurance company will cover you if your vehicle goes thru! It cost him 50 g for cleanup and towing and replacement! You are not covered the minute you choose to leave the road!

[Lefty-Canuck]

My uncle put his truck thru a lake 2 years ago and thought he was covered and he wasn't! He tried to sue TD meloche monnex and no lawyer would take his case! i just phoned him and he said no insurance company will cover you if your vehicle goes thru! It cost him 50 g for cleanup and towing and replacement! You are not covered the minute you choose to leave the road!

What you said above was pretty much the impression that I had.....if you entered ice/water due to an accident that is one thing but willingly driving on the ice for fishing etc....would void coverage if you broke through.

ok hypothetic scenario.....a guy wants a new ride, so he drives on the ice waaaay early and drowns his vehicle, I don't think insurance is going to cover it....

LC

[MKD]

Curious. We are with Intact, and our broker has told both hubby and I that we are covered in the event we go off road and then go through the ice. I wonder if something has changed with Intact's policies recently?


Context is everything.
In the event we go off the road and then go through the ice.

vs go "off road" and go through the ice.

Please use some complete sentences in your communication with your broker it might save you a headache.

[billie]

Well you got my broker's (wife) interest peked.

Reviewing the "Standard Endorsement Forms" (SEF) registered with the Alberta government, which all insurance companies must do, there is only one marine exclusion and it is for "amphibious vehicles designed for operation on land and water "where coverage is excluded while on water, launching or landing. Yes that would include your argo.

There are no off-road exclusions listed in any SEF.

Point would be that if you are told that it is excluded, make them prove it with the documentation, she couldn't find anything.

http://www.facilityassociation.com/manurulesratesalta.asp

Search the manual if you wish:).

[ragweed]

I apologize if this has already been covered but just in case it hasn't.....

I'm in the insurance industry.
Here are some points to consider when you are inquiring about coverage.

- Comprehensive insurance is designed to cover all events other than listed exlusions. If the event is not a listed exclusion (on YOUR copy) then it is generally thought of as covered.

- The Gov't of AB determine the wordings for auto insurance. Go to their website to view the specific wordings if you do not have a copy of your own or if you want to compare to what you were sold.

- Your insurance Agent is NOT the person who should be advising you as to whether or not you are specifically covered for a specific event. It is an CLAIMS department issue. They are the ones who make the determination as to whether you are covered or not. Call them.

[Worm]

Comprehensive is the coverage that should respond to this type of claim. I'm guessing the stories of people who were not covered did not have comp on their vehicle. The only mandatory coverage in AB is liability so not everyone carries it. As Ragweed mentioned the government determines the policy wordings, so it will be the same regardless of which company you are with. The difference is the coverage you have, and the possibilty of exclusions on your policy.

There is a marine endorsement (can't remember the exact name) that can remove this type of cover on atv's and quads etc, however I don't beleive it is applicable to vehicles.

In the end you need to check your policy and ask your broker. If they say it isn't covered, ask how you can buy the appropriate coverage so it is.

[Isopod]

I read through my INTACT insurance policy this evening, and it certainly looks like comprehensive coverage should cover going through the ice. I don't see any exclusions about not being covered if I take my vehicle off of roads. The only possible issue could be that there is something in the policy about protecting the vehicle from further damage following an accident, and I don't know if they might interpret being submerged in water for hours or days as being a failure to prevent damage after the initial accident. Also, not sure if they would cover recovery of the vehicle or whether I would have to pay that and they would just pay to tow it from the lake to the nearest repair shop.

[pophouseman]

Okay, so hypothetically:

So I have full replacement coverage for my truck for 3 years. So in 2014 when my truck is 2.9 years old, I can drive out on the ice in early november, get out and run when the ice starts cracking, and get a check for $40,000 for a new one???? sweet!!!!!!!!

[DarkAisling]

Context is everything.
In the event we go off the road and then go through the ice.

vs go "off road" and go through the ice.

Please use some complete sentences in your communication with your broker it might save you a headache.

Kiss my peachy white . . . ah, forget it. :love0025:

[DarkAisling]

Okay, so hypothetically:

So I have full replacement coverage for my truck for 3 years. So in 2014 when my truck is 2.9 years old, I can drive out on the ice in early november, get out and run when the ice starts cracking, and get a check for $40,000 for a new one???? sweet!!!!!!!!

Depends on the terms of your coverage and whether or not the vehicle is written off. I would assume a right off is likely in the event the truck was completely submerged.

[Redfrog]

Okay, so hypothetically:

So I have full replacement coverage for my truck for 3 years. So in 2014 when my truck is 2.9 years old, I can drive out on the ice in early november, get out and run when the ice starts cracking, and get a check for $40,000 for a new one???? sweet!!!!!!!!

Or you could set fire to it on the side of the road, but I'm thinking you'd have some 'splainin' to do Lucy.

[MathewsArcher]

Been there done that ice fishing. Had no problems with the claim on the vehicle or recovery costs with Meloche comprehensive coverage. FYI recovery bill was over 5G and occured several years ago. Vehicle was less than a year old at the time. No hassles, questions or delays....

[ragweed]

Okay, so hypothetically:

So I have full replacement coverage for my truck for 3 years. So in 2014 when my truck is 2.9 years old, I can drive out on the ice in early november, get out and run when the ice starts cracking, and get a check for $40,000 for a new one???? sweet!!!!!!!!

Nope....adjusters take depreciation into account.
If it was less than 24 months old....there's a chance that you would have an endorsement on the policy that would hold it's purchase value.

[AK47]

I am with Royal&Sun Alliance - they told me I am covered for "collision with water" which includes going through ice.
But I suggest everybody to call and talk to own insurance as there might be many small details, exceptions, etc.

[winger7mm]

ok hypothetic scenario.....a guy wants a new ride, so he drives on the ice waaaay early and drowns his vehicle, I don't think insurance is going to cover it....

LC

Same deal a guy wants a new ride, takes his truck to a gravel pit, burns it to the ground drinking with some friends, Oh i will add the the sterio installers screwed up the dash lights, any how next day calls it in stolen a lil bit longer in time and bam a new vehicle. This is not a hypothetic situation. What would be the difference if a guys truck went through the ice and he were to get a ride home and call it in as stolen and a "friend" reported seeing it on the lake???? FYI it was not me that burned the truck but a person who I know and I unfriended for taking advantage of the situation.

[ragweed]

deleted a post...

[Isopod]

In the case of a person who intentionally wrecks a vehicle to collect insurance, whether that is by sinking it into a lake, trashing it and then reporting it stolen, or whatever other means, that would be fraud. So, yes, they might get away with it and collect from the insurance company, but if they were found out they would have to repay the insurance money, plus would be charged with criminal fraud. ALL insurance policies have a disclaimer for fraud. I'm interested only in what happens if your vehicle accidentally goes through the ice and you make an honest claim to your insurance agent.

[Joe Fehr]

Adjuster will write off a vehicle if the water gets to the bottom of the dash. This comes from an adjuster friend of mine.
Don't like driving on the ice anymore, flood ice causes issues, snow causes issues falling through causes issues. Parking on land and walking or taking a snowmobile or atv makes way better sense to me now a days.

[TROLLER]

Very good topic, so much so I phoned my Ins co. found out my boat was insured for sinking

As to going through the ice while fishing, Sorry we don't insure for stupid. haha

[Buckle]

Call up ice road truckers to see we're they get insurance? :)

[Brock1]

So I called again to double check after starting this topic. I spoke with the claims dept at meloche and the auto branch. He forwarded me to a Team lead, and yes I do have all perils, my truck and removal would be covered if I was to go through. They are mailing me a copy of a highlited area of my policy specific to my questions.

There are a few exceptions

the first was obviously if I was intoxicated, or any driver of the vehicle was. It doesn't matter if I am off a grid rd or not though.

I am very comfortable that if my truck went through.knock on wood. and not that I would drive on yet anyway, but at least that if it did ever happen, I would be covered.
Brock

[Sundancefisher]

in answer to these questions I asked a buddy over at State Farm.

"As I said on Saturday evening when you brought this up.

In the Province of Alberta, EVERY insurance company has the same policy wording, the S.P.F. No 1. http://www.finance.alberta.ca/publications/insurance/standard_automobile_policy_2007.pdf

So, no matter what company you go to, the wording is the same.
There is nothing within the policy which excludes off road use.
To the best of my knowledge, there never has been any exclusion of this sort in the policy.
What may be possible is that an individual company may add an endorsement which limits the use. In this case the policy holder would agree to the limitation and it would be included in the policy. An example of this is windshield coverage. EVERY insurance policy in the province of Alberta includes windshield coverage. The individual insurer adds an S.E.F. 13D endorsement which removes windshield coverage. So, you are agreeing to remove coverage which in fact you have. This could be the case for some companies and off road use. I’ve only ever seen it on a Commercial Policy for equipment such as a company tractor at the lake being used on the ice. I’ve attached a link to the current SPF 1 policy. You can look through Section C as well as the Statutory Conditions, you will not find any limits to use for off road.

I hope this helps.

Scott Paulin
Office Manager
State Farm Insurance
W. Chris Law Insurance Agency Ltd.
Agent # 61-3113
Phone: 403-254-2715
Fax: 403-254-2729"