thankyou wildlife management system!!!

[bchap22]

I just want to thank our gov't and f&w for destrying deer populations in eastern alberta in the brilliant efforts to rid the deer population of cwd. Im from the lloyd area and this hunting season and the last couple have been terrible because deer numbers are way down. Not sure exactly how many were shot but i know it was a considerable amout good job you guys! Keep it up! Its funny and i just wonder how mother nature handled things like this before we had these self proclaimed geniuses managing the wild life....... Do something usefull and go catch a poacher!!!:sign0176::angry3:

[Don K]

They're such a thoughtful bunch! It's like an early Christmas present isn't it!
:sign0161:

Wait til next year and see how they respond, that'll be the real test to see if they actually have a clue?:sign0176:

Bets anyone?:thinking-006:

[Okotokian]

If CWD is the root cause I'd aim your ire a little to the east of you.

[Kurt505]

Ya, maybe next year they can offer 4 supplimental tags all over the province, I hate having a healthy population of deer.

[Jamie Black R/T]

they should make all supp tags only valid inside the fences of deer farms...

no permission required

:scared0018:

maybe elk farms too....bugger down the road from me has a bull that will go well over 400" :)

[buckfever6]

They are doing the right thing. Better to kill a few in one spot, than have it spread and damage the entire provinces deer population. It would be stupid and irresponsible to just let it go. THAT would be poor/no management.
It just sucks that you live in or around that area. I can understand your frustration.

[ram crazy]

You should be thanking the Saskatchewan government for the problem with allowing game farms, I think that is where the problem started.

[Pudelpointer]

You should be thanking the Saskatchewan government for the problem with allowing game farms, I think that is where the problem started.

Don't forget to send a card to our AB government as well. Although the current CWD in wild deer may have come from SK, the AB government has, and still does, allowed cervid farming in this province.

[NIKON]

They are doing the right thing. Better to kill a few in one spot, than have it spread and damage the entire provinces deer population. It would be stupid and irresponsible to just let it go. THAT would be poor/no management.
It just sucks that you live in or around that area. I can understand your frustration.

If you think the cwd is just along the border think again....They don't have the funds to test the entire province ( politics)... But it sounds like they have you convinced... Is there not elk farms through out the province...... Do you really believe they will control the disease if they continue to allow elk farms?......... I don't agree with your statement one bit

Nikon

[Jamie Black R/T]

If you think the cwd is just along the border think again....They don't have the funds to test the entire province ( politics)... But it sounds like they have you convinced... Is there not elk farms through out the province...... Do you really believe they will control the disease if they continue to allow elk farms?......... I don't agree with your statement one bit

Nikon

add to that killing infected animals does nothing as CWD will stay alive in the ground for extended periods of time....the farms have to go...end of story.

[buckfever6]

If you think the cwd is just along the border think again....They don't have the funds to test the entire province ( politics)... But it sounds like they have you convinced... Is there not elk farms through out the province...... Do you really believe they will control the disease if they continue to allow elk farms?......... I don't agree with your statement one bit

Nikon

Sounds like speculation more than fact. Maybe there is more CWD elsewhere, maybe there isn't. We can't just point fingers based on assumptions. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. At least they are identifying one area and putting forth an effort.
I'm not saying I agree with elk farms and the like, I am just glad they are not just standing by and watching one IDENTIFIED CWD area.

[Curly]

Poor game management across Alberta, not just east Alberta CWD, is a concern for most sportsman.

I know we may not have all the facts but anyone hunting north of hwy 16 have commented on low deer numbers throughout province. Please stop the 2 supp whitetail tags and reduce the number of mule deer tags

CWD on east Alberta is controversial. We can all agree that it is a senseless slaughter but we also can agree we don't want to see it spread to the rest of the province. SRD has some tough decisions

Just my 2bits

[NIKON]

Sounds like speculation more than fact. Maybe there is more CWD elsewhere, maybe there isn't. We can't just point fingers based on assumptions. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. At least they are identifying one area and putting forth an effort.
I'm not saying I agree with elk farms and the like, I am just glad they are not just standing by and watching one IDENTIFIED CWD area.

So you think by killing the deer off along the border is going to stop the disease,?...Are you assuming they are doing the right thing?... That's what they want you to think , that they tried to stop the disease...And it's got alot convinced.... As far as I'm concerned it's hog wash...... Tap root the problem..... Game farms yet we continue to allow it in the province..... they aren't stopping anything........ I believe the problem lies in who's gonna compensate the elk farms if they ban them?...... So in the meantime let's destroy our deer herds but not deal with the root cause.... jmho

Nikon

[Kurt505]

Poor game management across Alberta, not just east Alberta CWD, is a concern for most sportsman.

I know we may not have all the facts but anyone hunting north of hwy 16 have commented on low deer numbers throughout province. Please stop the 2 supp whitetail tags and reduce the number of mule deer tags

CWD on east Alberta is controversial. We can all agree that it is a senseless slaughter but we also can agree we don't want to see it spread to the rest of the province. SRD has some tough decisions

Just my 2bits

Agree 100%!

[NIKON]

Sounds like speculation more than fact. Maybe there is more CWD elsewhere, maybe there isn't. We can't just point fingers based on assumptions. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. At least they are identifying one area and putting forth an effort.
I'm not saying I agree with elk farms and the like, I am just glad they are not just standing by and watching one IDENTIFIED CWD area.

You say they are putting forth an effort?..... Answer me this, why were they congragating in a hot spot by baiting deer possibly spreading the disease in trying to do the culls?...... Why were they burying deer carcasses after the cull in masses if the cwd lives in the soil?........ Are they really making good choices?...... Can you really say they are putting forth hte right effort or just trying to convince people they are trying to stop the disease , it's so political and it seems like they have convinced quite a few they are making the right choices.... 5 yrs from now when they actually realize the disease may be province wide they will say ....... Well we put forth an effort, but maybe we should have discontinued game farms..... Jmho
I'm not convinced and I think there efforts are effortless

Nikon

[buckfever6]

So you think by killing the deer off along the border is going to stop the disease,?...Are you assuming they are doing the right thing?... That's what they want you to think , that they tried to stop the disease...And it's got alot convinced.... As far as I'm concerned it's hog wash...... Tap root the problem..... Game farms yet we continue to allow it in the province..... they aren't stopping anything........ I believe the problem lies in who's gonna compensate the elk farms if they ban them?...... So in the meantime let's destroy our deer herds but not deal with the root cause.... jmho

Nikon

It won't stop the disease, but it will help control the spread. I don't think they are trying to convince anybody that they are basically god and can stop a disease in it's tracks. I'd rather do what I can and help control the spread than sit by and do nothing. I noticed you live in eastern alberta. Could be why you are so against it? I have to say that if I lived in the area where it is going on, I would probably be pretty sore against it too. However, I don't, so obviously people in the area are going to have more passionate views than myself.

I don't agree with game farms. I believe they should be banned. I don't just back up SRD for the sake of backing them up. Just happy to see something being done instead of absolutely nothing! Getting rid of the root cause is the ultimate answer though, you are right. Hopefully the gov will grow a set in the future and scrap the farms.

[NIKON]

It won't stop the disease, but it will help control the spread. I don't think they are trying to convince anybody that they are basically god and can stop a disease in it's tracks. I'd rather do what I can and help control the spread than sit by and do nothing. I noticed you live in eastern alberta. Could be why you are so against it? I have to say that if I lived in the area where it is going on, I would probably be pretty sore against it too. However, I don't, so obviously people in the area are going to have more passionate views than myself.

I don't agree with game farms. I believe they should be banned. I don't just back up SRD for the sake of backing them up. Just happy to see something being done instead of absolutely nothing! Getting rid of the root cause is the ultimate answer though, you are right. Hopefully the gov will grow a set in the future and scrap the farms.

I picked this off and some very good points made

The very first case of Chronic Wasting Disease in Alberta was found in an Elk on a game farm near Goose Lake, which is only a short distance from Whitecourt. The next (2) two cases of Chronic Wasting Disease in Alberta were found in game farmed Deer. There are numerous cases where game farmed deer and elk have escaped or been intentionally released into the wild. There is no way of identifying that an animal came from a specific farm as ear tags are usually absent or if present are not traceable to a specific farm. Chronic Wasting Disease is now commonly found in wild ungulates in Alberta. Proposed Hunt (Kill) farm legislation was defeated in 2002-2003 and at that time it was decided that it would not be revisited again. Why has this topic resurfaced? A lot of the public engages in hunting during the hunting season. When we are hunting, the wild animals have a huge area and a number of ways where they can escape a hunter. With hunt farms, the animals are confined within a certain area so the hunter will eventually kill the animal (it is just a matter of time). To us this is not a sport at all and is not ethical hunting. Two questions arise regarding game farms and hunt farms. 1) What was the purpose of the game farms? And 2) what is the purpose of the hunt farms? The two primary reasons (that we have heard) which justify the establishment of deer and elk game farms were ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND AGRICULTUAL DIVERSIFICATION. We do not believe this has worked out so well. Millions of dollars have been spent in compensation to game farmers for the destruction of their herds (by the government) when Tuberculosis was first discovered in game farms and of course when Chronic Wasting Disease was subsequently discovered. In addition, Alberta Sustainable Resource Development has also spent millions of dollars in their efforts to monitor, control and eradicate Chronic Wasting Disease in the wild. THE DISEASE PERSISTS! Certainly our tax dollars could be spent in better ways. As far as diversification, initially the sale of live animals was a financial windfall for the game farmers who first bought these animals but now of course the demand for live animals has collapsed. The sale of antlers was also introduced but the market on that has collapsed also. The sale of deer and elk meat exists but again it is not financially lucrative. In addition the establishment of hunt farms and the continued existence of Game Farms pose a significant unacceptable disease risk to our wild deer and elk problems. Potentially it may even pose a public health risk. All of this would suggest that economically and environmentally, game farming of elk and deer has been a disaster.

[NIKON]

So if the disease was first found near whitecourt( don't know for sure if this is fact)....... Makes me go hmmm...... Whitecourt is no where near the border

Nikon

[Donkey Oatey]

So if the disease was first found near whitecourt( don't know for sure if this is fact)....... Makes me go hmmm...... Whitecourt is no where near the border

Nikon

Yes CWD was found in 2002 on an elk farm. Nothing since then on AB elk farms. 2 cases of CWD in one deer farm in 2002. Nothing since then.

The problem on the eastern border is that Saskatchewan has had several hundred positives on many many farms. Alberta's cervid industry has had closed borders since 1988 and are only open to animals going straight to slaughter.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/cpv9448

Slaughter and death submissions for testing for wild and domestic cervids up to date 2009.

So 3 positives out of approx 61000 animals tested. With over 9 yrs since the positives I would state statistically that CWD is not found in great numbers in Alberta's cervid farms.


I neither support nor condemn game farms. Just putting the information out there.

[NIKON]

My point is i really don't believe the disease in the wild deer herd is only along the border......... this is my opinion only..... The funds are not there to test the entire province..... So is the disease actually in the western side of the province?....... I don't know but do they?...... Is their effort effortless?....

Nikon

[Donkey Oatey]

My point is i really don't believe the disease in the wild deer herd is only along the border......... this is my opinion only..... The funds are not there to test the entire province..... So is the disease actually in the western side of the province?....... I don't know but do they?...... Is their effort effortless?....

Nikon

Really until someone sees an animal showing signs of the disease and there are no reports of the disease in the area there seems to be no reason to test.

[NIKON]

Really until someone sees an animal showing signs of the disease and there are no reports of the disease in the area there seems to be no reason to test.

Let's bury our heads in the sand

Nikon

[JohninAB]

Ya, maybe next year they can offer 4 supplimental tags all over the province, I hate having a healthy population of deer.

Define healthy, surely they taught you what a healthy deer population is while you were studying biology at Harvard University.

[Pudelpointer]

Really until someone sees an animal showing signs of the disease and there are no reports of the disease in the area there seems to be no reason to test.

Most animals that show symptoms will soon be dead from predation. Loss of coordination makes escaping coyotes rather difficult. Reality is that the only way to know if CWD is present in a population is to sample a large % of otherwise healthy animals in the population.

By the time one animal is observed with external symptoms of the disease, it may have been working its way through the population for years.

[Kootenai Killer]

Instead of slamming SRD all the time, why don't you guys(you know who you are) try give some constructive criticismfor once. Give a call to your local SRD biologist and talk with them about what you think the problems are. Yes it is easy to go on this forum and rip into SRD and point fingers for decisions that were made years ago. The fact is SRD hasn't done any culls for 3-4 years, they test every deer and elk head that is submitted for testing anywhere in the province. If they would have done nothing years ago there would have been people complaining that they didn't do anything.

[buckfever6]

I'd like to point out that what is going on around the eastern border does not seem like a political stunt if, for the most part, it is just peeing people off. Seems like the opposite to me. They are really trying to do what they believe is the best management practice for infected animals crossing the border, which is to cull them.
I did a little reading myself, and it's true, there haven't been any positive cases of CWD on Alberta game farms for quite some years. We can't control what goes on in Saskatchewan, but we can cull the deer in that area that cross the border.
Also it would appear that game farms in Alberta are tested regularly for CWD. Either way, my personal belief is that these animals are meant to be wild animals, and not farmed animals, which is the cause of CWD in the first place.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/WildlifeDiseases/documents/WDcwd.pdf

[Justin.C]

So why has wyoming and colorado quit shooting animals?????? Oh ya that is because you can NOT get rid of it. I still have not figured out why Alberta SRD figured they were going to be the first to magically get rid of it. Considering they have done the same as the two stated states??? Fun how dumb people are. :angry3:

[Donkey Oatey]

Let's bury our heads in the sand

Nikon

Its not let's bury our heads in the sand, its what is reasonable. We aren't testing all animals for all diseases every time one dies. It just doesn't and can't happen. What is happening is the monitoring and testing around areas where CWD is known to exist.

Extra testing was done around the farms that had CWD in 2002 and nothing was found. Now CWD is found on the eastern portion of the province and is moving west. They (F&W) have to expand their monitoring. What I can see by the information posted online is AB tests a lot of farmed and wild cervids for CWD.

[packhuntr]

Really until someone sees an animal showing signs of the disease and there are no reports of the disease in the area there seems to be no reason to test.

WRONG! Why is it that everywhere they have looked for it, they have found it?? They move further west along border zones seeking "VOLUNTARY head submission", and whammo, positives...

#1***** Either this thing has gone on a runaway and is out of thier grasp with regards to control,,,,

#2***** it has always been here,,,,

#3***** or, through created/induced lower deer densities along border wmu's, they "SRD" has created a situation where the disease is now MOVING west.

Deer will travel during rut etc, especially and moreso in a low density situation... Why is testing not being done further west to acquire this information. The answers might not be concrete, but GUARANTEED they will come to know what exactly is taking place. Keep saying its not worth the money, there have been no complaints etc etc, its B.S. and everyone knows it. They cannot simply pass off these 3 scenarios if desiring to be taken seriously. Its shoddy science thats full of holes and no one wants to actually acquire the NEEDED data to present a solid foundationed case on this.

[NIKON]

Its not let's bury our heads in the sand, its what is reasonable. We aren't testing all animals for all diseases every time one dies. It just doesn't and can't happen. What is happening is the monitoring and testing around areas where CWD is known to exist.

Extra testing was done around the farms that had CWD in 2002 and nothing was found. Now CWD is found on the eastern portion of the province and is moving west. They (F&W) have to expand their monitoring. What I can see by the information posted online is AB tests a lot of farmed and wild cervids for CWD.

Is it moving west?..... I call BS , they are just testing further west, But it sounds like your convinced

Nikon

[Pudelpointer]

I'd like to point out that what is going on around the eastern border does not seem like a political stunt if, for the most part, it is just peeing people off. Seems like the opposite to me. They are really trying to do what they believe is the best management practice for infected animals crossing the border, which is to cull them.
I did a little reading myself, and it's true, there haven't been any positive cases of CWD on Alberta game farms for quite some years. We can't control what goes on in Saskatchewan, but we can cull the deer in that area that cross the border.
Also it would appear that game farms in Alberta are tested regularly for CWD. Either way, my personal belief is that these animals are meant to be wild animals, and not farmed animals, which is the cause of CWD in the first place.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/WildlifeDiseases/documents/WDcwd.pdf

The problem Buck is that SRD DID cull the crap out of the deer along the border, and it didn't change the fact that we still have CWD - it is now present in a large area of AB. The other problem is that this disease is not limited to a small strip of land along the border; therefore SRD appears to be creating a "control zone" that reaches from MT to Cold Lake including all zones east of Highway #2. I think the issue is that residents in this huge area are tired of seeing the deer herds at only a fraction of what they once were.

The disease is not killing all these deer, government policy is.

The real question is: if no jurisdiction of similar size has managed to limit/control the spread/occurrence of CWD through destroying their deer herds, then why are we trying to?

I think the government has done a pi*s-poor job of communicating their plan for dealing with CWD. I have been at 3 presentations by the provincial wildlife vet, and have yet to hear what the "plan" is; the government reports what it is doing, how many deer they have tested, where they are from, what the results are, and new research findings... but what is THE PLAN?

If the plan is to keep AB's deer herds at extremely low density forever, and to implement this policy in every zone where CWD is detected, then I think we have a problem; I do not think this will be acceptable to hunters (and society in general), especially if the disease continues to spread. If this is the case, then why are we doing it now?

I will not condemn SRD and the Prov. Wildlife Vet for what they are doing, but I am getting frustrated by the lack of a long-term plan, and the lack of leadership in our government.

[Justin.C]

Instead of slamming SRD all the time, why don't you guys(you know who you are) try give some constructive criticismfor once. Give a call to your local SRD biologist and talk with them about what you think the problems are. Yes it is easy to go on this forum and rip into SRD and point fingers for decisions that were made years ago. The fact is SRD hasn't done any culls for 3-4 years, they test every deer and elk head that is submitted for testing anywhere in the province. If they would have done nothing years ago there would have been people complaining that they didn't do anything.

Are you on something? No cull for 3-4 years?????? They give out supplement doe tags and 600 buck tags per zone. That is a cull just not like it was before. Cull is still going on as they have it open till mid December in the zones targeted. :rolleye2:

[NIKON]

The problem Buck is that SRD DID cull the crap out of the deer along the border, and it didn't change the fact that we still have CWD - it is now present in a large area of AB. The other problem is that this disease is not limited to a small strip of land along the border; therefore SRD appears to be creating a "control zone" that reaches from MT to Cold Lake including all zones east of Highway #2. I think the issue is that residents in this huge area are tired of seeing the deer herds at only a fraction of what they once were.

The disease is not killing all these deer, government policy is.

The real question is: if no jurisdiction of similar size has managed to limit/control the spread/occurrence of CWD through destroying their deer herds, then why are we trying to?

I think the government has done a pi*s-poor job of communicating their plan for dealing with CWD. I have been at 3 presentations by the provincial wildlife vet, and have yet to hear what the "plan" is; the government reports what it is doing, how many deer they have tested, where they are from, what the results are, and new research findings... but what is THE PLAN?

If the plan is to keep AB's deer herds at extremely low density forever, and to implement this policy in every zone where CWD is detected, then I think we have a problem; I do not think this will be acceptable to hunters (and society in general), especially if the disease continues to spread. If this is the case, then why are we doing it now?

I will not condemn SRD and the Prov. Wildlife Vet for what they are doing, but I am getting frustrated by the lack of a long-term plan, and the lack of leadership in our government.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Dec2011.pdf

Looks like next year we test another zone or 2 going west..... Cwd found on the western test area......... Next couple zones over we are half way across the province......

Nikon

[Justin.C]

I say# 1 and 2 and 3 makes Denver as well. It isall bs. WRONG! Why is it that everywhere they have looked for it, they have found it?? They move further west along border zones seeking "VOLUNTARY head submission", and whammo, positives...

#1***** Either this thing has gone on a runaway and is out of thier grasp with regards to control,,,,

#2***** it has always been here,,,,

#3***** or, through created/induced lower deer densities along border wmu's, they "SRD" has created a situation where the disease is now MOVING west.

Deer will travel during rut etc, especially and moreso in a low density situation... Why is testing not being done further west to acquire this information. The answers might not be concrete, but GUARANTEED they will come to know what exactly is taking place. Keep saying its not worth the money, there have been no complaints etc etc, its B.S. and everyone knows it. They cannot simply pass off these 3 scenarios if desiring to be taken seriously. Its shoddy science thats full of holes and no one wants to actually acquire the NEEDED data to present a solid foundationed case on this.

[buckfever6]

The problem Buck is that SRD DID cull the crap out of the deer along the border, and it didn't change the fact that we still have CWD - it is now present in a large area of AB. The other problem is that this disease is not limited to a small strip of land along the border; therefore SRD appears to be creating a "control zone" that reaches from MT to Cold Lake including all zones east of Highway #2. I think the issue is that residents in this huge area are tired of seeing the deer herds at only a fraction of what they once were.

The disease is not killing all these deer, government policy is.

The real question is: if no jurisdiction of similar size has managed to limit/control the spread/occurrence of CWD through destroying their deer herds, then why are we trying to?

I think the government has done a pi*s-poor job of communicating their plan for dealing with CWD. I have been at 3 presentations by the provincial wildlife vet, and have yet to hear what the "plan" is; the government reports what it is doing, how many deer they have tested, where they are from, what the results are, and new research findings... but what is THE PLAN?

If the plan is to keep AB's deer herds at extremely low density forever, and to implement this policy in every zone where CWD is detected, then I think we have a problem; I do not think this will be acceptable to hunters (and society in general), especially if the disease continues to spread. If this is the case, then why are we doing it now?

I will not condemn SRD and the Prov. Wildlife Vet for what they are doing, but I am getting frustrated by the lack of a long-term plan, and the lack of leadership in our government.

What is your background and education?? I would love to hear what your plan would be. Maybe you can set them straight.
True, you can't get rid of the disease, but you can and should do something rather than nothing. What would you prescribe that would make a difference along that east border? Or would you say just let it go and don't worry about it??? No research or testing or anything? Lets hear.

[trophyboy]

It is truly disgraceful what Alberta SRD has done to our deer herds. CWD has always and will always exist in it's natural form. Prior to CWD there was still way too many tags being given out which suggested that Fish and Wildlife is obviously of little importance in Alberta and was only being managed for money.

I know I'm dreaming but here is what should happen. Mule deer should be only hunted by Alberta residents, just like Saskatchewan simply because as Albertans we have limited opportunities to hunt mule deer anymore in our own home province due to deer numbers in crisis as well as people from everywhere being allowed to hunt mule deer here. And for the record I love the fact that Saskatchewan allows only their own residents to hunt mule deer there. It is the only place left where you can see decent numbers of monster mulies. Alberta mule deer are in crisis and I just don't see how everyone can't see this????

The current group of yuppies running the system have absolutely no idea and should all be fired immediately.

2012 will be an interesting year, but I sense yet another year of disappointment, which at this point is almost unimaginable....but then again this is Alberta! :sign0176:

[Donkey Oatey]

It is truly disgraceful what Alberta SRD has done to our deer herds. CWD has always and will always exist in it's natural form. ...................

Sorry but this really stood out. What are you basing that CWD always has existed and will always exist?

Lots of information on CWD can be found at http://cwd-info.org/

CWD is believed to be a genetic mutation of Scrapie in sheep that bridged over to deer in Colorado in the '60's.

Prion diseases are known in a lot of species of animals but are not all the same. Scrapie in sheep, BSE in cattle, CJD in humans, Kuru in cannibal humans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_%28disease%29 all fatal, not all infectious.

[Kootenai Killer]

Are you on something? No cull for 3-4 years?????? They give out supplement doe tags and 600 buck tags per zone. That is a cull just not like it was before. Cull is still going on as they have it open till mid December in the zones targeted. :rolleye2:

Call your local SRD office and let the biologist know that you think the season should not be extended any longer and to reduce the number of tags allocated on supplemental licences! When SRD were doing the culls everyone complained about that, so they extended the season and increased supplemental tags so hunters could do their part. Now your complaining that the season is too long and there are too many tags......Biologists have a hard job, its not black and white, and you will never please everyone! Help them out and give some constructive critisism instead of whining and snivelling and do something other than bash SRD on this forum!

[Justin.C]

Call your local SRD office and let the biologist know that you think the season should not be extended any longer and to reduce the number of tags allocated on supplemental licences! When SRD were doing the culls everyone complained about that, so they extended the season and increased supplemental tags so hunters could do their part. Now your complaining that the season is too long and there are too many tags......Biologists have a hard job, its not black and white, and you will never please everyone! Help them out and give some constructive critisism instead of whining and snivelling and do something other than bash SRD on this forum!

What have you done ????? I have sent MANY letters and made MANY calls and stated my views. Do come on here and tell me to do what I already have. I bet you have done nothing at all or you work with the rest of these tools.

[NIKON]

Call your local SRD office and let the biologist know that you think the season should not be extended any longer and to reduce the number of tags allocated on supplemental licences! When SRD were doing the culls everyone complained about that, so they extended the season and increased supplemental tags so hunters could do their part. Now your complaining that the season is too long and there are too many tags......Biologists have a hard job, its not black and white, and you will never please everyone! Help them out and give some constructive critisism instead of whining and snivelling and do something other than bash SRD on this forum!

I think you've lost focus on what a hunting forum is for...... Express views on different hunting discussions..... Points are brought up and discussed from different view points

Nikon

[Kootenai Killer]

It is truly disgraceful what Alberta SRD has done to our deer herds. CWD has always and will always exist in it's natural form. Prior to CWD there was still way too many tags being given out which suggested that Fish and Wildlife is obviously of little importance in Alberta and was only being managed for money.

I know I'm dreaming but here is what should happen. Mule deer should be only hunted by Alberta residents, just like Saskatchewan simply because as Albertans we have limited opportunities to hunt mule deer anymore in our own home province due to deer numbers in crisis as well as people from everywhere being allowed to hunt mule deer here. And for the record I love the fact that Saskatchewan allows only their own residents to hunt mule deer there. It is the only place left where you can see decent numbers of monster mulies. Alberta mule deer are in crisis and I just don't see how everyone can't see this????


2012 will be an interesting year, but I sense yet another year of disappointment, which at this point is almost unimaginable....but then again this is Alberta! :sign0176:

You are not going to accomplish anything by comments like this...
"The current group of yuppies running the system have absolutely no idea and should all be fired immediately"
Its easy to throw mud from behind your keyboard....if you are that concerned and/or knowledgeable you should put in your resume when the next biologist job comes open.

[Redfrog]

"The real question is: if no jurisdiction of similar size has managed to limit/control the spread/occurrence of CWD through destroying their deer herds, then why are we trying to|


Ding Ding Ding!!!

[Kootenai Killer]

What have you done ????? I have sent MANY letters and made MANY calls and stated my views. Do come on here and tell me to do what I already have. I bet you have done nothing at all or you work with the rest of these tools.

I spoke to Dave Moore, the Wildlife Bio while I was hunting in Camp Wainwright last week and told him to get rid of the extended season and reduce the supplemental tags. Sounded to me like he was in agreement....If you want you can call the SRD office in Vermilion and talk with him...

[Kootenai Killer]

I think you've lost focus on what a hunting forum is for...... Express views on different hunting discussions..... Points are brought up and discussed from different view points

Nikon

I respect different point of views. I just simply suggested instead of coming on here and calling names and having nothing good to say about how our Province manages' it's wildlife...instead look at the glass as half full instead, Help SRD out, its our resource, we all have a say.

[Pudelpointer]

What is your background and education?? I would love to hear what your plan would be. Maybe you can set them straight.
True, you can't get rid of the disease, but you can and should do something rather than nothing. What would you prescribe that would make a difference along that east border? Or would you say just let it go and don't worry about it??? No research or testing or anything? Lets hear.

Resource/Wildlife Management. Don't have a plan - not my job, as I already have one that takes up more time then it should. I read an article here, talk to a biologist there, and use objective thinking to sort out the political BS and the facts.

I just want to know what the long term plan is (if there is one - which I am beginning to doubt).

What you (and government - not saying you are in gov.) are failing to hear is that people are getting pi**ed off! They are questioning the powers that make these decisions (which they have every right to question) why? If they are asking these question then government has failed in its duty to keep its citizens informed.

As has been pointed out, other jurisdiction spent decades (IIRC) culling and killing their ungulate herds, all for nothing it appears. I am asking the question "Why is AB following the same failed plan as these jurisdictions?"

I think research must continue. I think the testing program should be expanded.

As for our eastern border, I don't think anything will make a difference at this point. I question the wisdom of indiscriminate culling across entire WMUs. Research has shown a couple things recently:

1. The disease is most likely to be available in the soil to non-infected deer in areas with high clay content soils (i.e. river valleys).

2. The river valleys appear to be acting as vectors for the disease to spread (new cases are being observed along the major rivers - Red Deer R., Battle, etc.).

However, managing deer at the landscape feature level is complex and hard to manage, so SRD has embraced a "scorched earth" policy in relation to CWD. Is this the correct policy? I have the right to ask the question, do I not?

[Don K]

What is your background and education?? I would love to hear what your plan would be. Maybe you can set them straight.
True, you can't get rid of the disease, but you can and should do something rather than nothing. What would you prescribe that would make a difference along that east border? Or would you say just let it go and don't worry about it??? No research or testing or anything? Lets hear.

Wow... Internet tough guy...:argue2:

CWD is here and it's not going away... Look south my friend, where the bios are better educated, better paid and better funded. The affected states have YEARS of work and data behind them. The reason they have 'thrown in the towel' is the realization that nothing can be done! And guess what, the healthy deer are still healthy, the sick deer die... The populations are doing fine and in general everyone is happy. Over a half century of CWD in Colorado and there's still lots of deer (living in much denser populations than ours), as well as happy hunters and managers. That sounds horrible.

Killing all the deer in Alberta isn't the answer. I know 2 guys who collectively killed THIRTEEN deer this year... Makes me throw up in my mouth. WTF is that besides POOR management? Let it run it's course, it will spread through our herds and level off as a naturally occurring disease. Who's to say it already isn't?

I'm not sure what the ramifications of dumping bones and carcasses off are? I know a lot of guys that butcher their own stuff, then deposit the remains out in the corner of their fields... Does this spread disease if an animal was infected? If so we could potentially have it from the crowsnest to grand prairie.:thinking-006:

Personally I'm tired of the thoughtless, needless waste and utter disregard for the future well being of our game animals. I'd like to see good opportunity to hunt our game animals, but not the slaughter that has been going on over the last half dozen years.

Like I said before, it'll be interesting to see what the tag numbers will look like next year.:)

[Don K]

I respect different point of views. I just simply suggested instead of coming on here and calling names and having nothing good to say about how our Province manages' it's wildlife...instead look at the glass as half full instead, Help SRD out, its our resource, we all have a say.

IMO, THEY (SRD, as 'THEM' has been previously appointed in a previous thread...) are off base completely. THEY don't look at other jurisdictions that have spent 50x's the amount of money we have spent, to no avail. THEY think it'll be different here... THEY aren't good managers, IMO, just the benefactors of a few good winters. THEY are slow to react to a serious decline in our game populations (next year will be the real tell tale). I have also spoke to THEY, and THEY don't listen? Apparently a few of us have talked to the SRD and F&W, but we are all so 'stupid' and 'uneducated' why would THEY listen to us? Maybe because we indirectly sign their checks? This is a place to vent for many of us... All have our opinions, some differ, but are all entitled to have their own. But I think the majority would concur that THEY need to step up, have some accountability and do a MUCH better job than they've done in the last few years...
But if they did, they'd be private sector not government employees!:sign0068:

[Pudelpointer]

But if they did, they'd be private sector not government employees!:sign0068:

LOL, on that note, I have to get back to my non-union, non-government work before I get fired and can't afford to fix my fence this spring.... seriously!

[buckfever6]

asking a guy a question makes me an internet tough guy? hmm.. never knew.

[Don K]

asking a guy a question makes me an internet tough guy? hmm.. never knew.

Not really, but questioning a persons opinion based on their education isn't fair either if you get my point?
Based on decisions that are getting made I'd expect some of our 'bios' received their degrees from an online university found in the back of some magazine at the check out counter. :thinking-006:

Or Olds college...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Don K]

That's a joke! Please don't tell me you went to Olds college... :sign0161:

[buckfever6]

Don. I think it is completely fair to ask for someones education background on this subject before getting their opinion. After all, no one would have the first clue how to deal with this with absolutely no wildlife management background or education. It would be purely their uneducated guess. I have a question for you Don. Would you want my opinoin on how open heart surgery should be performed without me having a lick of education in that matter? That's a bit extreme, but the principle still applies.

[Pudelpointer]

That's a joke! Please don't tell me you went to Olds college... :sign0161:

Sh*t. I just snorted coffee on my keyboard. Don, I am sending you the repair bill.

[JohninAB]

Not really, but questioning a persons opinion based on their education isn't fair either if you get my point?
Based on decisions that are getting made I'd expect some of our 'bios' received their degrees from an online university found in the back of some magazine at the check out counter. :thinking-006:

Or Olds college...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

You sure are quite the mouthpiece aren't you?

[Justin.C]

You sure are quite the mouthpiece aren't you?

Alot of people are when other people are in charge of something we like and they are destroying it for us all. So what would you do john???? Sit back ant take it or voice your concerns. SRD should have a real plan to bring back our herds as they failed on a no win battle that they new could not win ever. I have stated many time we had one of the best places in the world for deer herds and monster bucks. Now we have a crap hole people from all over can come an abuse.

[buckfever6]

Alot of people are when other people are in charge of something we like and they are destroying it for us all. So what would you do john???? Sit back ant take it or voice your concerns. SRD should have a real plan to bring back our herds as they failed on a no win battle that they new could not win ever. I have stated many time we had one of the best places in the world for deer herds and monster bucks. Now we have a crap hole people from all over can come an abuse.

Lol I dunno. I arrowed a 183 whitetail this year.:sHa_shakeshout:

[norma]

Instead of slamming SRD all the time, why don't you guys(you know who you are) try give some constructive criticismfor once. Give a call to your local SRD biologist and talk with them about what you think the problems are. Yes it is easy to go on this forum and rip into SRD and point fingers for decisions that were made years ago. The fact is SRD hasn't done any culls for 3-4 years, they test every deer and elk head that is submitted for testing anywhere in the province. If they would have done nothing years ago there would have been people complaining that they didn't do anything.

did try calling them and chatting because i heard they wanted 600 deer shot off, asked how many deer were in the area ,they didn't know... well they shot the deer off then a hard winter kill followed, now tough hunting ever since , as for myself lost the respect in how they manage when they don,t have the answers

[Justin.C]

Lol I dunno. I arrowed a 183 whitetail this year.:sHa_shakeshout:

What in a bow zone on a property only you were aloud on? Wts are smarter than most people as the big ones cruise at night. Muledeer are a different bag of worms. 10% make it for being like a wt. And then they die during the rut if the best part happens during November.

[Justin.C]

did try calling them and chatting because i heard they wanted 600 deer shot off, asked how many deer were in the area ,they didn't know... well they shot the deer off then a hard winter kill followed, now tough hunting ever since , as for myself lost the respect in how they manage when they don,t have the answers

It ain't the first time this happened. They sewed up in mid 90's as well. They never recovered from that on the prairies.

[Don K]

Don. I think it is completely fair to ask for someones education background on this subject before getting their opinion. After all, no one would have the first clue how to deal with this with absolutely no wildlife management background or education. It would be purely their uneducated guess. I have a question for you Don. Would you want my opinoin on how open heart surgery should be performed without me having a lick of education in that matter? That's a bit extreme, but the principle still applies.

I'm going out on a limb saying I wouldn't want you anywhere near me with a knife.:thinking-006:

It's not that I think education isn't important, far from it... BUT in the case of CWD the evidence is there! Our management is trying things that have been done. Spending money that has been spend by others. It's all very redundant... If anyone, yourself included, looks into and researches the topic a little it will be very clear that we cannot and will not stop the spread... So the airborne rodeo the SRD performed (sounds like fun if you were in the chopper) and the ridiculous cull hunts (which still continue with the exorbitant numbers of tags given out) amount to what? Mismanagement...

I'm glad you shot a good deer, I'm happy for all that did! I personally took little time off this year as I felt that the deer numbers weren't there. I bought my tags, all of them, and ate every last one. There are zones out east where the deer numbers are so bad you have to question the tags given out? Is this going to happen across the province when a case pops up in 224, 326 or 418. You see where I'm going? It will eventually spread across the province and then what? Personally I'd rather see an affected rate of around 1% and have deer to shoot. :)

[buckfever6]

What in a bow zone on a property only you were aloud on? Wts are smarter than most people as the big ones cruise at night. Muledeer are a different bag of worms. 10% make it for being like a wt. And then they die during the rut if the best part happens during November.

Neither. Not in bow zone. Did not have sole permission (although I am pushing for that).

[Don K]

You sure are quite the mouthpiece aren't you?

Nope, just like to speak my piece. Some of my best friends went to school in Olds. I like to hang out with them cause it makes me feel better about myself! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Don K]

And seriously, get a sense of humor...:love0025:

[Speckle55]

hey all wow the deer herd size will go up and down with the balance's of nature but we all have to agree that they will not go down for long..

lets look at the deer cull for CWD on border it is like the Rat Program in Alberta or Pine Beatle just a control measure to slow it down so mother nature can take care of it.
in the deer cull on the east side of Alberta the number of culled deer in one area was in the 1800 head killed (all) and 8 months later in that area the count was 950 deer.. so you may not be able to stop but you could slow it down.

as to how the disease travels farmers move dirt moving combines and hunters move deer bodys from Sask to Alta etc .. boots track dirt CWD stays alive 12 to 16 years in dirt .. Mad Cow in Europe you had to go through boot washes in airports.

if you think that the deer numbers will not come up next year in no CWD area you are wrong.. they will if Mother nature does not throw a curve in.

Food for Thought
David

[Justin.C]

You are rite numbers will grow till next year when tags go up again. And the slaughter more deer. I don't understand how that has to do with anything as this has nothing to do with mother nature but SRD giving out 3-4 time to many tags out to continue the cull that has been going on for a very long time now in most east AB. hey all wow the deer herd size will go up and down with the balance's of nature but we all have to agree that they will not go down for long..

lets look at the deer cull for CWD on border it is like the Rat Program in Alberta or Pine Beatle just a control measure to slow it down so mother nature can take care of it.
in the deer cull on the east side of Alberta the number of culled deer in one area was in the 1800 head killed (all) and 8 months later in that area the count was 950 deer.. so you may not be able to stop but you could slow it down.

as to how the disease travels farmers move dirt moving combines and hunters move deer bodys from Sask to Alta etc .. boots track dirt CWD stays alive 12 to 16 years in dirt .. Mad Cow in Europe you had to go through boot washes in airports.

if you think that the deer numbers will not come up next year in no CWD area you are wrong.. they will if Mother nature does not throw a curve in.

Food for Thought
David

[Don K]

hey all wow the deer herd size will go up and down with the balance's of nature but we all have to agree that they will not go down for long..

lets look at the deer cull for CWD on border it is like the Rat Program in Alberta or Pine Beatle just a control measure to slow it down so mother nature can take care of it.
in the deer cull on the east side of Alberta the number of culled deer in one area was in the 1800 head killed (all) and 8 months later in that area the count was 950 deer.. so you may not be able to stop but you could slow it down.

as to how the disease travels farmers move dirt moving combines and hunters move deer bodys from Sask to Alta etc .. boots track dirt CWD stays alive 12 to 16 years in dirt .. Mad Cow in Europe you had to go through boot washes in airports.

if you think that the deer numbers will not come up next year in no CWD area you are wrong.. they will if Mother nature does not throw a curve in.

Food for Thought
David

So mother nature gives a single person the opportunity to shoot more than 10 deer in a year?:snapoutofit:
Last winter was mother nature at her best. Hopefully she is kind this year. So far so good... With the potential number of tags given in the coming years (unless policy changes), she may not be able to be merciful. It's hard for numbers to bounce back when the breeding stock is all shot by hunters or preyed upon by the high predator pops...

[Kale_M]

with the winter being fairly mild so far why not just cancel the hunting season in the hurting areas next year and let the populations come back up.?

[bobalong]

with the winter being fairly mild so far why not just cancel the hunting season in the hurting areas next year and let the populations come back up.?

Are you suggesting that hunting seasons be closed for any areas where the numbers are down..............thats just about province wide.....good call there Kale, good call....some of you guys just crack me up.

[Don K]

Are you suggesting that hunting seasons be closed for any areas where the numbers are down..............thats just about province wide.....good call there Kale, good call....some of you guys just crack me up.

I think that was a poke at humor? While closing WMU's down is excessive in nearly everyones opinion, what's wrong with drastically cutting numbers on draw tags and supp tags? If polled, given true numbers of animals as well as the % of animals these zones are down, most if not all sportsmen would be in favor... I think a lot of guys are naive enough or don't get out enough to see what the numbers are like. They'll drive out, not see much and just chalk it up as 'One of those days...".

[Sakoman]

I do beleive that the SRD is barking up the wrong tree with the mass cull's and continual over allotment of tags. The only thing this can do is do severe damage to the overall herd and the quality of the herd in the future. The statements that I am happy they are doing something don't fly, it has been proven unsuccessfull every where it has been tried. We did not round up all the people in Alberta with HIV and shoot them in hopes it would not spread did we..... Just doing something for the sake of doing something is NOT the right answer......

[Kale_M]

Back in the 70's in Manitoba they cancelled the hunting season due to low numbers of whitetails. Sure Alot I preaching on here about conservation and doing what's right, what would be wrong with eliminating all tags in certain zones to build he numbers up agian? Seems kinda selfish if you think that would be a bad thing to do. Or would you rather keep hunting in areas with low numbers and then ruin it for other generations by completely killing everything off?

[jkwolfgrove]

something to consider -from what what i've read there is no test for cwd. When 'they' say they are testing for cwd, all they are doing looking at the brain tissue for symptoms of cwd. In actuality the animal could be infected, but has yet show symptom on the brain.

[CaptSocke]

In case folks are wondering why Wyoming and Colorado stopped culling is because it did not work because they were about 20 years to late. By the time they figured out something was wrong with the deer to much time had passed and the prevalence rates in wild populations was too high (10%). This might not seem like a high number but it is when it comes to wildlife diseases. Alberta got lucky in detection and took action albeit controversial action when the prevalence rates were near 1%. It was experiment that even other non-infected US states, and CDN provinces were looking at as a possible preventive measure. Culls never have been popular no matter the jurisdiction, but something needs to be done about CWD. Hunter imposed culls would not have worked, SK tried it and failed miserably, which on their advice is why Alberta had an officer run program not hunter.

Take the town of Boulder for example, the deer there had (as of 2009) had a prevalence rate of 30%, most deer infected were dying withing 2yrs of infection, not good! They are starting to see a minor reduction in production rates out of this population and there is speculation that within a few years (forget how many) they will actually see a decline. By sitting back and doing nothing we actually do risk losing more deer. There is too a risk that if CWD goes North it will get into the Caribou. Mull on that. It is in Elk, Whitetail and Mule Deer, possibly Moose in some heavily infected US states.

So should SRD sit by and do nothing? No, they are the wildlife managers within the province and they have to do something. Look at skunks in the late 70's early 80's, they got rid of rabies by eradicating them, now they have rebounded without a serious disease.

While it easy to sit here and slam SRD everyday because their F&W officers are *******s and the Biologists don't know ****, I would like to see all those here try and do SRD's job better. They work with the best available info and with whatever resources might be available. It is a very and on here a completely thankless job but someone has to do it.

My 2cents

[Justin.C]

In case folks are wondering why Wyoming and Colorado stopped culling is because it did not work because they were about 20 years to late. By the time they figured out something was wrong with the deer to much time had passed and the prevalence rates in wild populations was too high (10%). This might not seem like a high number but it is when it comes to wildlife diseases. Alberta got lucky in detection and took action albeit controversial action when the prevalence rates were near 1%. It was experiment that even other non-infected US states, and CDN provinces were looking at as a possible preventive measure. Culls never have been popular no matter the jurisdiction, but something needs to be done about CWD. Hunter imposed culls would not have worked, SK tried it and failed miserably, which on their advice is why Alberta had an officer run program not hunter.

Take the town of Boulder for example, the deer there had (as of 2009) had a prevalence rate of 30%, most deer infected were dying withing 2yrs of infection, not good! They are starting to see a minor reduction in production rates out of this population and there is speculation that within a few years (forget how many) they will actually see a decline. By sitting back and doing nothing we actually do risk losing more deer. There is too a risk that if CWD goes North it will get into the Caribou. Mull on that. It is in Elk, Whitetail and Mule Deer, possibly Moose in some heavily infected US states.

So should SRD sit by and do nothing? No, they are the wildlife managers within the province and they have to do something. Look at skunks in the late 70's early 80's, they got rid of rabies by eradicating them, now they have rebounded without a serious disease.

While it easy to sit here and slam SRD everyday because their F&W officers are *******s and the Biologists don't know ****, I would like to see all those here try and do SRD's job better. They work with the best available info and with whatever resources might be available. It is a very and on here a completely thankless job but someone has to do it.

My 2centsI have read alot of stuff and none of what you say is in any of it... Were is you info from as I say it is faulse..... Srd is screwing up big time. They are not going to win against the diseese... The only way that will happen is kill every animal in the province..... and keep tham all dead for many many years..... So no more anything but srd will then be know as DRD(dead resource dimwitts)..... rite now they are KERD... (kill everything resource destruction).

[oddsix]

Do something usefull and go catch a poacher!!!:sign0176::angry3:[/QUOTE]

I don't think it’s the officers that make the management system. In other word don't kill the messenger! I think it’s the Bio's that make the decisions? :thinking-006:

[Pudelpointer]

Do something usefull and go catch a poacher!!!:sign0176::angry3:

I don't think it’s the officers that make the management system. In other word don't kill the messenger! I think it’s the Bio's that make the decisions? :thinking-006:[/QUOTE]

I would suggest that it is actually the politicians who dictate how and where budgets will be allocated. Even the bio's are handcuffed by management and the government.

[ctd]

I have seen many Deer in and around Lloyd this past year. I have also not seen a single one through hunting season except along the highway.

I can also say the same thing out west of Rocky. Through out the year I have seen numerous Deer, Do you think that during hunting season I seen many? Nope seen some that were to far away to shoot.

Seen hundreds of different tracks through out the areas I hunt. But many of those Deer move at when it is dark. Their best defence is their Nose and hearing.

If you want to start placing blame on who is to blame then turn the finger around towards yourself. You can harvest multiple animals a year for the past x years. So can all your buddies. What happens is the population starts to get smaller. The more mature animals help to train the immature ones. So harvetings the big bruiser every year and justifying it to yourself as the young ones need a chance to grow. Just multiplys the problem. If want scientific proof of this, then you definatly do not understand how the system works.

Lots of animals have layed low this year do to the great amount of natural feed and water sources.

Unless you got your black cadillacs dirty. chances of finding animals would have been slim to none. Even then your chances would have been slim.

The animals are out there, the question is are you smarter then a Deer?

[Don K]

No doubt the deer are out there. Just a lot less of them...:scared0015:

[duffy4]

In case folks are wondering why Wyoming and Colorado stopped culling is because it did not work because they were about 20 years to late. By the time they figured out something was wrong with the deer to much time had passed and the prevalence rates in wild populations was too high (10%). This might not seem like a high number but it is when it comes to wildlife diseases. Alberta got lucky in detection and took action albeit controversial action when the prevalence rates were near 1%. It was experiment that even other non-infected US states, and CDN provinces were looking at as a possible preventive measure. Culls never have been popular no matter the jurisdiction, but something needs to be done about CWD. Hunter imposed culls would not have worked, SK tried it and failed miserably, which on their advice is why Alberta had an officer run program not hunter.

Take the town of Boulder for example, the deer there had (as of 2009) had a prevalence rate of 30%, most deer infected were dying withing 2yrs of infection, not good! They are starting to see a minor reduction in production rates out of this population and there is speculation that within a few years (forget how many) they will actually see a decline. By sitting back and doing nothing we actually do risk losing more deer. There is too a risk that if CWD goes North it will get into the Caribou. Mull on that. It is in Elk, Whitetail and Mule Deer, possibly Moose in some heavily infected US states.

So should SRD sit by and do nothing? No, they are the wildlife managers within the province and they have to do something. Look at skunks in the late 70's early 80's, they got rid of rabies by eradicating them, now they have rebounded without a serious disease.

While it easy to sit here and slam SRD everyday because their F&W officers are *******s and the Biologists don't know ****, I would like to see all those here try and do SRD's job better. They work with the best available info and with whatever resources might be available. It is a very and on here a completely thankless job but someone has to do it.

My 2cents

Good post. I was going to say you may be wasting your time trying to point this out to some of this croud of "experts" but then the very next post shows that.

SRD's goal was to reduce deer dencity and keep it low to slow down the spread of CWD. I think they have done a fair job and hope they continue to do so until a more permanent and effective solution is found.

[NIKON]

Good post. I was going to say you may be wasting your time trying to point this out to some of this croud of "experts" but then the very next post shows that.

SRD's goal was to reduce deer dencity and keep it low to slow down the spread of CWD. I think they have done a fair job and hope they continue to do so until a more permanent and effective solution is found.
__________________
Robin, BACK IN THE GREAT WHITE NORTH!!!!

Not sure if they will ever find a solution, til then we are aging every day...... This could ruin my hunting area around Lloyd for life.......... Atleast my life time ... Great job way to go.... I bet you live out west, And have not felt the effects of this cwd management
Just a hunch
Nikon

[Lefty-Canuck]

Good post. I was going to say you may be wasting your time trying to point this out to some of this croud of "experts" but then the very next post shows that.

SRD's goal was to reduce deer dencity and keep it low to slow down the spread of CWD. I think they have done a fair job and hope they continue to do so until a more permanent and effective solution is found. __________________
Nikon

This is the real issue.....nothing is effective or permanent once this surfaces in an area.....you can slow the spread, but not stop it.

LC

[Justin.C]

This is the post of posts. Give your head a shake. Not all of us fall under your brand of hunter driving down the guest looking fo deer. Also just cause the give opportunity to shoot something does not meaner all did. I have seen many Deer in and around Lloyd this past year. I have also not seen a single one through hunting season except along the highway.

I can also say the same thing out west of Rocky. Through out the year I have seen numerous Deer, Do you think that during hunting season I seen many? Nope seen some that were to far away to shoot.

Seen hundreds of different tracks through out the areas I hunt. But many of those Deer move at when it is dark. Their best defence is their Nose and hearing.

If you want to start placing blame on who is to blame then turn the finger around towards yourself. You can harvest multiple animals a year for the past x years. So can all your buddies. What happens is the population starts to get smaller. The more mature animals help to train the immature ones. So harvetings the big bruiser every year and justifying it to yourself as the young ones need a chance to grow. Just multiplys the problem. If want scientific proof of this, then you definatly do not understand how the system works.

Lots of animals have layed low this year do to the great amount of natural feed and water sources.

Unless you got your black cadillacs dirty. chances of finding animals would have been slim to none. Even then your chances would have been slim.

The animals are out there, the question is are you smarter then a Deer?

[tjl]

I just want to know why the SRD decided to totally destroy the Mule deer Populations in North Western Alberta? Was that due to CWD? I have been saying this for a long time how poorly managed our herds are. Now that the deer numbers province wide are horrible, beside a few pockets with the more popular hunting areas being hit we are seeing more unhappy hunters. We will see if the pretty much unlimited doe tag system is still around next year. I can't imagine it will be but then again it was implemented this year after the worst winter in history, huge wolf population along with an already decimated mule deer population go figure??? :angry3:
I just don't get it VERY SAD.

[hal53]

Yup...the Deer are getting smarter, only moving at night....and not leaving any tracks behind too....good on them!!!!

[Justin.C]

Yup...the Deer are getting smarter, only moving at night....and not leaving any tracks behind too....good on them!!!!

Lol. This is what these guys were trying to say.


Nikon. Why is it good they mollify all our herds??? If you think that this is only for cwd. You are wrong. Ask anybody that live up in the peace area or down in pincher creek how the slaughter is going. No cwd in either of those. Open your eye man.

[Don K]

Yup...the Deer are getting smarter, only moving at night....and not leaving any tracks behind too....good on them!!!!

Awesome! I didn't know deer could levitate!:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[NIKON]

Lol. This is what these guys were trying to say.


Nikon. Why is it good they mollify all our herds??? If you think that this is only for cwd. You are wrong. Ask anybody that live up in the peace area or down in pincher creek how the slaughter is going. No cwd in either of those. Open your eye man.

Wake up Justin, Give that melon a shake........ The cull started this around Lloyd, now if that wasn't bad enough a hard winter.......

Nobody's saying it all cuz of the cull but if you think for one minute it's not affecting the deer herd quality your dead wrong.......

Nikon:snapoutofit:

[gman1978]

Yup...the Deer are getting smarter, only moving at night....and not leaving any tracks behind too....good on them!!!!

No kidding Hal!! They must be drinking Red Bull and sprouted wings...... You can't even make track soup because there are no tracks. The deer must be holed up in the thick bush chewing on willow branches and licking snow, there not even moving at night anymore!!!!!!!!

[Justin.C]

Wake up Justin, Give that melon a shake........ The cull started this around Lloyd, now if that wasn't bad enough a hard winter.......

Nobody's saying it all cuz of the cull but if you think for one minute it's not affecting the deer herd quality your dead wrong.......

Nikon:snapoutofit:

Other than the winter of last I do blame it all on the cull. This cull is province wide not just around there. So why is that???? No cwd were I stated in my last post. Rite????

[Don K]

Other than the winter of last I do blame it all on the cull. This cull is province wide not just around there. So why is that???? No cwd were I stated in my last post. Rite????

X2 X100...
The CWD cull is out east, but the whole province is being hammered! How long can we have guys getting a mule buck draw, 3 mule doe tags, whitetail general and 2 whitetail supps, and still expect to see deer numbers at any level other than low?
I don't profess to be an expert, but seriously this isn't just a CWD thing, it's a management issue across the entire province...

[NIKON]

Other than the winter of last I do blame it all on the cull. This cull is province wide not just around there. So why is that???? No cwd were I stated in my last post. Rite????

Do you believe that?........ I don't

Maybe they want reduced deer herds province wide...I don't know what they are doing.. Have they increased the number of tags in the peace in the last few years?....

Nikon

[NIKON]

Makes me wonder where they get the funds for cwd testing...... Sell more tags to fund the tests?..........
Anyone know?....

Nikon

[Justin.C]

Do you believe that?........ I don't

Maybe they want reduced deer herds province wide...I don't know what they are doing.. Have they increased the number of tags in the peace in the last few years?....

Nikon

3 doe tags per. Also 500+ buck tags given out. I would say so. Also why would they lower numbers like they have. It is crap. I don't know if you are from here or not but it us to be awesome hunting here. Now not so much. So I disagree on your coments on this topic.

[Justin.C]

Makes me wonder where they get the funds for cwd testing...... Sell more tags to fund the tests?..........
Anyone know?....

Nikon

Lie cheat and steal.

[NIKON]

3 doe tags per. Also 500+ buck tags given out. I would say so. Also why would they lower numbers like they have. It is crap. I don't know if you are from here or not but it us to be awesome hunting here. Now not so much. So I disagree on your coments on this topic.

Know I don't live up there, Have friends up there,,,,,,, I live about 4 miles in from Sask.......lol..... Right in the heat of this mess
More tags to fund cwd?....... makes u wonder don't it
But I really don't know.... pure speculation on my part

Nikon

[JohninAB]

Lie cheat and steal.

Now there is a scientific comment!

[Justin.C]

Now there is a scientific comment!

Sorry politicly correct answer is taxes.

[grind stone]

I just want to thank our gov't and f&w for destrying deer populations in eastern alberta in the brilliant efforts to rid the deer population of cwd. Im from the lloyd area and this hunting season and the last couple have been terrible because deer numbers are way down. Not sure exactly how many were shot but i know it was a considerable amout good job you guys! Keep it up! Its funny and i just wonder how mother nature handled things like this before we had these self proclaimed geniuses managing the wild life....... Do something usefull and go catch a poacher!!!

So lets put a spin on this blaming the government if you were in power how would you handle Cwd or would you????

[sakogreywolf]

My point is i really don't believe the disease in the wild deer herd is only along the border......... this is my opinion only..... The funds are not there to test the entire province..... So is the disease actually in the western side of the province?....... I don't know but do they?...... Is their effort effortless?....

Nikon

I agree that CWD is not only along the border. About 5 years ago I was hunting in the mountains where I observed a mule deer buck that was salivating a ridiculous amount. Now I am certainly no expert, and I am not saying that this was for sure CWD, however, there is no doubt this deer was very sick and I feel there is a good possibility that it was CWD. I did mention this to a warden at one time and I was assured that it MUST have been something else. IMHO, CWD has been here long before SRD knew about it, and it is already province wide.

[Justin.C]

I agree that CWD is not only along the border. About 5 years ago I was hunting in the mountains where I observed a mule deer buck that was salivating a ridiculous amount. Now I am certainly no expert, and I am not saying that this was for sure CWD, however, there is no doubt this deer was very sick and I feel there is a good possibility that it was CWD. I did mention this to a warden at one time and I was assured that it MUST have been something else. IMHO, CWD has been here long before SRD knew about it, and it is already province wide.

I agree 100%. Also no stoping or refusing it so quit with this slaughter.

[norma]

i have to wonder if more tags are given out so we do their cull for them,no one to blame but ourselves, as i know taking to them does nothing ,

[Justin.C]

i have to wonder if more tags are given out so we do their cull for them,no one to blame but ourselves, as i know taking to them does nothing ,

Bingo that is it 100 % what the deal is. Looks better on themm than the slaughter that happened a few years ago.

[Donkey Oatey]

Seems the "I'm not an expert" crowd is doing most of the yelling and belittling.

Arm chair bio's are worse than arm chair quarterbacks yelling at the TV.

I am out of this thread. Every time someone posts factual information or puts forward a different opinion they get blasted and ridiculed. /thread

[twytter]

well i think the deer population went down mostly cause of the wolfs population is way up and not just because they put up more tags,but i think that 1 general and 1 supplement is enough tags and even with only 1 general would be enough,but they should let us shoot wolfs year round in crown land too not just when big game season is open

[justinO]

Simple Govnt doesn't care about deer populations.

But

Hunters are the ones pulling the trigger. If you are taking part in the slaughter don't complain about the current deer populations. I'm sick of hearing people say well if they issued the tags their must be too many deer??? Obviously they don't have a clue on the numbers. And people killing doe's just to donate them :angry3: Kill some coyotes or wolves instead, If all you want to do is pull the trigger.
In the end we have to hold ourselves accountable.

Merry Christmas
To Everyone

[buckman]

I have to agree with the last post.I have hunted in Alberta for 30+ years and remember when you were lucky to see a decent buck of either species and a 150+ deer was a monster.

The numbers increased through a combination of mild winters and low numbers of doe tags.

The hunters that have taken up the sport in the last 15- 20 years have been used to generous numbers of tags(remember when it was only 3 of the deer species)As for the hunters who USE the resourse to supply themselvs with meat by shooting everthing they possibly can,SHAME on you for being so greedy.And SHAME on srd for being so stupid and irresponsible with OUR resourse

The cwd issue is tough one,the srd have to be seen to be doing something but the cull probably wont work as it targets deer in general not just the infected ones.

Deer will EVENTUALLY build up a resistance to the virus, its the way nature works.In fact killing healthy deer in an area with sick ones may make the problam worse as some of them may already be resistant to it already, just by exposure.

If we allow this slaughter to continue it wont be long before the deer herds go back to low numbers and with it less hunting oppertunities for all of us.

[Donkey Oatey]

I have to agree with the last post.I have hunted in Alberta for 30+ years and remember when you were lucky to see a decent buck of either species and a 150+ deer was a monster.

The numbers increased through a combination of mild winters and low numbers of doe tags.

The hunters that have taken up the sport in the last 15- 20 years have been used to generous numbers of tags(remember when it was only 3 of the deer species)As for the hunters who USE the resourse to supply themselvs with meat by shooting everthing they possibly can,SHAME on you for being so greedy.And SHAME on srd for being so stupid and irresponsible with OUR resourse

The cwd issue is tough one,the srd have to be seen to be doing something but the cull probably wont work as it targets deer in general not just the infected ones.

Deer will EVENTUALLY build up a resistance to the virus, its the way nature works.In fact killing healthy deer in an area with sick ones may make the problam worse as some of them may already be resistant to it already, just by exposure.

If we allow this slaughter to continue it wont be long before the deer herds go back to low numbers and with it less hunting oppertunities for all of us.

The area I highlighted is one of the problems. CWD isn't a virus. It isn't a bacteria. It is just a protein. It is not alive. It does not breed, it does not eat. It just exists as a mis-folded protein. That is the biggest problem with CWD. It is not like any disease that we really know about. It is a folded protein that has hooks on it. It hooks on to other proteins and causes them to fold to be the same. They hook in strings and cause holes in the brain tissue. It is not a disease that the body recognizes as it is the bodies own proteins.

[ishootbambi]

Makes me wonder where they get the funds for cwd testing...... Sell more tags to fund the tests?..........
Anyone know?....

Nikon

i received a pm about this and answered it the best i could.

lets put it this way. i dont know the actual cost of a single cwd test....but id guess its a safe bet that it costs more than 38 bucks to test one head. given the cost of some testing we do know.....like a diabetes screen at well over 100 dollars, or a biopsy for a tumor at several hundred, its safe to say that a cwd test is more than 38, which is the cost of the most expensive single license in alberta for deer or elk. given that supplementals cost even less at 20 bucks for 3.....it doesnt take long to realize that your math does not make sense. license sales would bring in much less money than the cost of testing the heads it generates.

lets put a number to it. this is not the real number as i dont have it, but lets say a single cwd test is 50 bucks. now, if srd sold 1 license to a general hunter, and 3 to a supplemental hunter, then there would be 4 heads to test. that would cost 200 dollars, yet they would have only received 58 dollars. they would be losing money if that was how it is being done.

its easy to see that the more heads that are tested, the more money they would lose. in fact, if money were the only concern, they would stop issuing tags so freely and save a fortune!

seriously, do any of the bios here know what the cost is on a single cwd test? i would bet good money its more than 38 bucks.

[NIKON]

i received a pm about this and answered it the best i could.

lets put it this way. i dont know the actual cost of a single cwd test....but id guess its a safe bet that it costs more than 38 bucks to test one head. given the cost of some testing we do know.....like a diabetes screen at well over 100 dollars, or a biopsy for a tumor at several hundred, its safe to say that a cwd test is more than 38, which is the cost of the most expensive single license in alberta for deer or elk. given that supplementals cost even less at 20 bucks for 3.....it doesnt take long to realize that your math does not make sense. license sales would bring in much less money than the cost of testing the heads it generates.

lets put a number to it. this is not the real number as i dont have it, but lets say a single cwd test is 50 bucks. now, if srd sold 1 license to a general hunter, and 3 to a supplemental hunter, then there would be 4 heads to test. that would cost 200 dollars, yet they would have only received 58 dollars. they would be losing money if that was how it is being done.

its easy to see that the more heads that are tested, the more money they would lose. in fact, if money were the only concern, they would stop issuing tags so freely and save a fortune!

seriously, do any of the bios here know what the cost is on a single cwd test? i would bet good money its more than 38 bucks.

I was thinking province wide...... not just supp tags in the cwd units.... I think Justin was refering to the peace area , way too many tags given out....
I really don't know though just wondering what's funding these tests?...... Anyone know for sure?

Nikon

[shedcrazy]

seriously, do any of the bios here know what the cost is on a single cwd test? i would bet good money its more than 38 bucks.

Probably not simple math but your right as it costs way more to test than the price of a tag (I heard the amount but I forget)...especially when the price of tags go mainly to IBM, ACA, Adm, and general rev. It doesn't go directly to SRD..not even the pheasant licences.

So even take the general rev part of the tag...say 25% of the cost of a tag. Compare that to the actual cost of the test (two tests for a positive result and the second one goes to the feds), cost of lab pers, cost of transporting heads, cost of freezers, cost of little green tags (that cost a few bucks a piece..blew me away), communication to tell you the results and maintain the database.

So you tell me if you think it's a money making plan.

I am sure it's only a matter of time until we will have to pay for the test if we are concerned about the results.

[super7mag]

The biggest problem with the original cwd cull, was the lack of inter-provincial co-operation. Without SASK. looking into the farmed cervid population for cwd, also they have a big problem with protected areas being way overpopulated. Such as the Manitou Lakes area. So as one bioligist put it to me in laymens terms, They call it filling the VOID, if a certain area or habitat can sucsessfully support X# of animals, if something like the cull, or a bad winter kill eliminates so many animals. It is just a matter of time before animals move in from other areas, especially if the area has an overpopulation. So without the work between 2 provinces, all we did was open the door for more infected animals to cross the border and continue the spread of cwd, maybe at an inflated rate . Now 6 years later with the issuing of to many supp tags and now a large winter kill ( of up to 60% estimated in some areas) the void is actually be opened even more. So the intitail science was flawed and not even all of the bios' agreed on how to handle it, beuracrats made the final decisions , we all know they would never make a mistake.

[walking buffalo]

Seems the "I'm not an expert" crowd is doing most of the yelling and belittling.

Arm chair bio's are worse than arm chair quarterbacks yelling at the TV.

I am out of this thread. Every time someone posts factual information or puts forward a different opinion they get blasted and ridiculed. /thread


But the thread offer the opportunity for us "Arm chair bio's" to learn.


I posted this in past threads. For those who are willing to learn, not just believe what you want to believe, have a read.

Management of CWD in Canada:
Past Practices, Current Conditions, Current Science, Future Risks and Options
February 9-10, 2011, Edmonton
http://www.ccwhc.ca/publications/CWD_Workshop_Summary_February_9-10_2011_Edmonton_revised_20110516.pdf


Here is another summary from the same conference, with a few new remarks, some of them quite interesting. Of note, Good old Livestock Diversity Act in Action. :mad2:

- Alberta elk farmers wish to have the cull program on positive farms discontinued;



Summary of Chronic Wasting Disease Workshop in Edmonton on Feb. 9-10, 2011 and Alberta’s CWD Update as of March 23, 2011
By Blair Rippin and Dr. Margo Pybus
http://joomla.wildlife.org/Alberta/images/Documents/Cons_committee/cwd%20update%202011.pdf

Summary of Chronic Wasting Disease Workshop in Edmonton on Feb. 9-10, 2011 and Alberta’s CWD Update as of March 23, 2011
By Blair Rippin and Dr. Margo Pybus


ACTWS was invited by the Alberta Prion Research Institute to provide a representative to attend a workshop entitled Management of CWD in Canada. The purpose was to discuss past practices, current conditions, future risks and options. The following is a summary of the workshop and an update of the CWD situation in Alberta.

Jurisdictional Summaries

! Dr. Michael Miller, Colorado Division of Wildlife

- CWD known in Colorado in captive cervids since 1967 and in wild cervids since early 1980s but intensive study done only since 2001.
- no evidence of occurrence in other domestic ruminants nor other wild mammals.
- prevalence high in many local mule deer populations.
- patterns of infections influenced by time since introduction, herd demographics, movement and congregation patterns, land use, soil characteristics, and management strategies.
- attempts to control or contain CWD deemed ineffective and abandoned, partly because of lack of public support.
- surveillance through directing hunt pressure and testing hunter kills continues.


! Dr. Michael Samuel, Department of Forest and Wildlife Ecology, University of
Wisconsin

- CWD identified in Wisconsin wild cervids in 2002 (white-tailed deer) but it’s estimated that it may have been there for 2 or 3 decades.
- early eradication attempts deemed ineffective and abandoned 3 years ago
- present management aimed only at containment through directing hunt pressure, testing and monitoring.
- spread estimated to be 2 -3 miles per year.
- genetic research indicates some evidence of developing resistence but it is a very slow to occur and estimated to take in the order of 200 years to make a difference.


! Dr. Trent Bollinger, University of Saskatchewan

- CWD brought in from the US in late 1980s via imported game farm animals and now found in three populations of wild cervids.
- over the past decade CWD became wide spread in the province and occurs in both deer species and wild elk.
- containment efforts by directing hunt pressure have been unsuccessful and there is fear that caribou may become infected.
- management currently focused on tracking movements of the disease.
- considerable concern that if CWD crosses the species barrier (i.e. to domestic stock and/or humans) there will be far reaching negative economic and social consequences.
- largely depending on research to result in effective management programs.


! Dr. Greg Douglas, Chief Veterinary Officer, Saskatchewan Ministry of Agriculture

- game farms and hunt farms involving 54,000 cervids is currently worth $60 million annually to Saskatchewans economy.
- described the challenges in efforts (mainly involving surveillance and culling) to eradicate
CWD from Saskatchewan game farms via mechanisms to improve traceability, inventory, and surveillance.


! Dr. Stephane McLachlan and Misty Potts-Sanderson, University of Manitoba

- CWD not present in Manitoba to date but is approaching from eastern Saskatchewan
- First Nations very concerned about “corralling” or “penning” (game farming) wild animals.
- considerable concern expressed about the decline in environmental quality from industrial sources and its effect on wildlife, indicating that CWD may be a symptom of a much larger problem.
- considerable concern expressed about the lack of effective communication between scientific community and First Nations.


Impacts of CWD presence on society

! Dr. Vic Adamowicz, Department of Rural Economy, University of Alberta

- presented results of questionnaires designed to investigate how CWD affects recreational hunting.
- further work will determine the effects of CWD presence on the province’s economy.
- found awareness of CWD varied among societal cohorts, particularly urban/rural differences.
- CWD presence resulted in greater change in hunting venue among urban as opposed to rural dwellers.


! Helen Cote-Quewezance, Cote First Nations, Saskatchewan

- outlined the importance of healthy wildlife to First Nations people in the form of sustenance, health, and spirituality.
- very concerned that CWD will likely degrade that aspect of aboriginal life.
- is willing to share knowledge with scientific community but asked for a forum that includes an effective understanding of aboriginal culture.


! Dr. Ellen Goddard, et al, Department of Rural Economy, University of Alberta

- Canadians in general currently have a very limited understanding of CWD, however, it is somewhat greater than that of Americans.
- concern that CWD constitutes a significant human health risk is very low in both countries (i.e. much lower ranking than concerns about BSE or other known meat borne pathogens).
- Canadians support efforts to eradicate CWD much more than Americans.


Research initiatives

! Dr. Michael Coulthart, et al, Public Health Agency of Canada

- although not occurring to date, he estimates that report of just one probable case of human CWD could trigger a public health crisis in North America.
- epidemiological studies so far indicate the probability is very slight, however, prion agents and their transmission properties are highly mutable and adaptable and the possibility can not be ruled out.
- suggests those involved in human prion disease surveillance should consider the possibility of human CWD and develop a readiness to deal with it.

! Dr. Margit Westphal, McLaughlin Centre for Population Health Risk Assessment, University of Ottawa

- CWD identified in captive research animals in 1967 has now spread to 18 US states and 2 Canadian provinces in farmed and free ranging cervids.
- complicating development of an effective plan to combat CWD are the facts that it has a very long latency period, extended environmental persistence, and it lacks a quick and sensitive diagnostic anti-mortem test.
- “Effective management of CWD requires the development and application of an integrated risk management framework based on sound principles of risk assessment and management, and the harmonization of regulation that align trans-border management efforts”.


! Judd Aikens et al, Centre for Protein Folding Diseases, University of Alberta

- have identified two prion protein gene variants in Alberta white-tailed deer that are linked to disease prolongation.
- implications could lead to possible development of resistence but would likely take a very long time.

! Scott Adams and Scott Napper, University of Saskatchewan

- testing is currently underway to determine the effectiveness of a newly developed injectable CWD vaccine that has shown considerable promise.
- an effective vaccine could be used to prevent CWD in game farm animals but additional study would be required to determine an effective application method in the wild.


Conclusions drawn from the workshop presentations and discussions

$ CWD is a newly invasive and fatal neurodegenerative prion disease of cervids known in North America only since 1967 (45 years) and hosts have not had time to adapt. To date it is present in 18 US states and 2 Canadian provinces.
$ Attempts to eradicate CWD via intensive culling has generally proved to be ineffective except where infection is very recent. Evidence of recent timing of infection was shown in Alberta by lymph node positive but brain negative in tested specimens.
$ In wild cervids the two deer species are most commonly involved. Of those, mule deer are most heavily infected in western jurisdictions while in east-central states, where mule deer are absent, white-tails are the only host. Further, of the various cohorts, adult males are most commonly infected and regulations aimed at providing trophy antlers may be exacerbating efforts to control CWD prevalence and spread.

$ Culling by management agencies and/or by directing hunting pressure was shown to be ineffective in eradicating and even the in halting the spread of the disease.

$ Surveillance for prevalence and degree of spread via testing hunter-killed animals is currently the most common management method in practice. It has also been shown that public awareness, understanding, and attitudes are critical factors to consider when embarking on control activities.
$ Factors complicating the control or management of CWD are:
- CWD has a very long latency period.
- Currently the only tests for diagnosing CWD in living animals is to collect tonsil or rectal lymph biopsy tissues.
- Prions will bind with clay particles in soil and thus remain persistent in areas containing infected animals.
- Although there are some signs of developing immunity or resistence in hosts it will take very long time (i.e. > 200 years) to manifest itself.
-In infected foci, close relatedness appears to be a factor in increase prevalence, which could also result from mule deer being more gregarious and exhibiting clumping behavior, particularly during winter when CWD transmission is most likely to occur.
- Some mule deer are migratory, which further complicates CWD containment efforts.
$ CWD is slow to show population effects but with time it is predicted to result in significant reductions in density and distributions of ecologically, economically, socially important cervids in all jurisdictions with CWD infections.
$ Presently there are only speculative indications of CWD crossing species barrier but on the slim chance human CWD occurs, it is predicted there will be general public panic and adverse repercussions to recreational and First Nation’s use of cervids and subsequent negative effects on economies in several jurisdictions.
$ Social science is directing further effort into determining probable effects of CWD presence on public understanding, awareness, and attitudes toward control efforts and in turn how this may influence hunter behavior, food safety, and the economy.


Identified needs for future efforts to manage CWD
- improved interagency (state, provincial and federal wildlife and game farm managers, research agencies including those investigating prion diseases such as BSE, public health agencies, first nations) cooperation and coordination.
- development of a quick and sensitive anti-mortem CWD diagnostic test
- much improved methods of enhancing public awareness and understanding of CWD to facilitate efforts and funding directed at CWD control and management.
- development of a broad, long term CWD management approach with best-practice protocols, adaptable to local situations.
- establishment of a trans-border, central agency responsible for coordinating the overall management of CWD.
- investigation of methods to incorporate more holistic approaches to CWD management.
- revisit current regulations governing hunting and game farming to assure compatibility with accepted CWD management protocols.
- develop a consistent message, united voice, or international consensus on CWD because of differing views on the significance of CWD.
- in Canada, include Manitoba, Quebec and BC in future deliberations concerning CWD.
- support research efforts to develop an effective anti CWD vaccine.
- development of a protocol to reduce public exposure to CWD infected animals or meat.


Other specific needs identified by the game farm industry and First Nations

- Alberta elk farmers wish to have the cull program on positive farms discontinued;
a national elk registry program; an effective anti-mortem CWD test; improved information on mechanisms of CWD spread; and an effective anti CWD vaccine.
- First nations - request mobile CWD testing sites; specimen storage sites; and short turn-around on test results. They also encourage managers to investigate the use of “natural” medicines in CWD control efforts.



Alberta Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) Surveillance Update: March 23, 2011
All heads of deer and elk received to date from the fall hunting seasons have been tested, although a few heads continue to dribble into the lab. Herein we provide the summary of the 2010 fall surveillance. However, the ongoing CWD Surveillance Program will continue to test heads whenever they are received throughout the year.
From September 1, 2010 to March 23, 2011 we tested 5062 heads (primarily deer heads) and detected nineteen (0.4%) new cases of CWD in wild deer in Alberta.
Seventeen of the positive deer were mule deer: twelve males, five females
The two remaining positive deer were white-tail males
All positive deer were harvested by hunters and were in very good to excellent body condition.
All but one positive deer were adults. The remaining positive deer was a yearling in the early stages of infection.
Many of the infected deer were near previous known CWD cases, largely in the Battle River and Ribstone Creek drainages in the north and the Red Deer River drainage in the south.
A cluster of infected deer was found north and west of Dinosaur Provincial Park in WMU 152 – a significant extension of the disease westward along the Red Deer River.
Of particular significance, the positive yearling mule deer buck was the first case of CWD found in the North Saskatchewan River valley in Alberta. This is strong evidence of recent expansion of the disease into or within the valley.
As anticipated, additional infected deer were found in CFB Wainwright in association with the Battle River valley.
The 19 new hunter-kill cases are in addition to the road-kill case found in February 2010, thus the annual total for 2010 is 20 cases.
Ongoing NEGATIVE test results were posted to AlbertaRelm and made available to individual hunters. To date, approximately 50% of the test results have been read by the hunter.
Ongoing POSITIVE test results were provided by phone directly to the hunter who harvested the infected deer.
As in previous years, hunters who harvest a CWD-infected deer were given the options of
! keeping the meat
! turning in the meat and receiving a replacement licence for this year (if the season was still open where the infected deer was harvested)
! turning in the meat and receiving a replacement licence for next year for the same species and location as the infected deer

The total number of CWD cases detected in wild deer in Alberta since September 2005 is 94.
As part of the ongoing provincial surveillance program, we also are testing a random sample of emaciated cervids associated with severe winter conditions occurring in various parts of Alberta
To learn more about CWD in Alberta, visit:
http://srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversityStewardship/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/
Attention Hunters!
If you have frozen deer heads that you would like to submit to the ongoing CWD surveillance program, please drop them off at any Fish and Wildlife office during regular office hours. For more details, visit:
http://srd.alberta.ca/FishingHuntingTrapping/Hunting/ChronicWastingDisease-
InformationForHunters.aspx
CWD Map and Statistics
MAP:
http://srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversityStewardship/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-Mar18-2011.pdf
LIST:
http://srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversityStewardship/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveList-Mar18-2011.pdf

[Donkey Oatey]

Walking Buffalo we have gone around on this CWD issue in other threads. I really think it is disingenuous of you to highlight and bold just small parts of this document. Some great information out there that you are purposely bolding to take the attention away from other parts.

My comments were made toward the ones yelling and flaming saying "I am no expert"

I am sure everyone here knows you are quite knowledgeable in CWD. I guess my complaint is when you go through that whole document and highlight a couple things that have been said.

Have you seen any reply from CFIA about the AEC's request to have CWD eradication removed? I haven't. It was something mentioned at a conference. Doesn't mean its going to happen and has absolutely nothing to do with LIDA in Alberta and you know it. CWD is a reportable disease under the Health of Animals Act regulated by CFIA and the feds. Nothing to do with Alberta Agriculture or the Alberta Elk Commission.

[ishootbambi]

WB is pointing out some of the ver critical things that most would overlook by posting the entire document. it is very obvious that a lot of the people with an opinion on the cwd situation DO NOT read the links and data supplied in all of these threads. if they did, it would make the discussion a whole lot easier on everyone. an educated public is a very good thing.....especially given srds history of decision making. the decsions they make have huge implications for all albertans.

thank you WB for helping to inform the average joe on this and other things that hunters absolutely should know about and be concerned about.

[walking buffalo]

Walking Buffalo we have gone around on this CWD issue in other threads. I really think it is disingenuous of you to highlight and bold just small parts of this document. Some great information out there that you are purposely bolding to take the attention away from other parts.

My comments were made toward the ones yelling and flaming saying "I am no expert"

I am sure everyone here knows you are quite knowledgeable in CWD. I guess my complaint is when you go through that whole document and highlight a couple things that have been said.

Have you seen any reply from CFIA about the AEC's request to have CWD eradication removed? I haven't. It was something mentioned at a conference. Doesn't mean its going to happen and has absolutely nothing to do with LIDA in Alberta and you know it. CWD is a reportable disease under the Health of Animals Act regulated by CFIA and the feds. Nothing to do with Alberta Agriculture or the Alberta Elk Commission.


Donkey, I feel that you are responsible for a lot of sound info added to the board. I can't imagine picking on your use of highlighting.

No, I have not seen a reply. The fact that AEC would even submit a "Wish" that they could opt out of CWD erradication for Diversified Livestock is stunning. Maybe they were just asking Santa?

[Donkey Oatey]

Donkey, I feel that you are responsible for a lot of sound info added to the board. I can't imagine picking on your use of highlighting.

No, I have not seen a reply. The fact that AEC would even submit a "Wish" that they could opt out of CWD erradication for Diversified Livestock is stunning. Maybe they were just asking Santa?

I guess my "issue" (not much of one) is that is seems you have to do everything to try and blame game farming industry even though there is almost nothing in that whole post about game farms. You made it sound like the decision to bring up the point had to do with Alberta Agriculture or LIDA. Nothing could be further from the truth. CWD is the responsibility of the federal government CFIA.

I agree that many of your highlighted areas answer the questions and complaints of many of the posters as to why eradication was attempted and trophy management may actually perpetuate CWD. I hope everyone reads the entire post and not just the highlighted areas.

[bobalong]

I have read many articles on CWD as well. The one posted had some interesting info as well. In all the articles I have read including this one, the ONE thing that it appears has been learned without exception (where mule deer are present) is that the majority of animals infected are Male Mule Deer. With this knowledge SRD has decided to protect this species with a draw, thereby ensuring that the deer with the highest infected population, could eventually have the highest density in the area.........I guess I would have to be a biologist to understand this rationale.

[Justin.C]

I have read many articles on CWD as well. The one posted had some interesting info as well. In all the articles I have read including this one, the ONE thing that it appears has been learned without exception (where mule deer are present) is that the majority of animals infected are Male Mule Deer. With this knowledge SRD has decided to protect this species with a draw, thereby ensuring that the deer with the highest infected population, could eventually have the highest density in the area.........I guess I would have to be a biologist to understand this rationale.what dencity??????? they have given so many tags out after the illegal chopper shoot that there is nothing left....If you do find them it is a mirical..

[norma]

what dencity??????? they have given so many tags out after the illegal chopper shoot that there is nothing left....If you do find them it is a mirical..

pretty sad on what they are aloud to do ,...chopper, etc etc .

[duffy4]

pretty sad on what they are aloud to do ,...chopper, etc etc .

They did what they felt they had to to get the job done. The heli shooting was the most efficient way to kill a large number of deer in a short time.

How anyone would call this "the illegal chopper shoot" shows their twisted view of things.

[NIKON]

They did what they felt they had to to get the job done. The heli shooting was the most efficient way to kill a large number of deer in a short time.

How anyone would call this "the illegal chopper shoot" shows their twisted view of things.

Huh?......... What did they get done?........ Absolutely nothing if you believe according to the head submission it's spreading west?....
They broke every rule in the book to accomplish nothing

Nikon :snapoutofit:

[JohninAB]

what dencity??????? they have given so many tags out after the illegal chopper shoot that there is nothing left....If you do find them it is a mirical..:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Now that there has to qualify as the post of the year! If you know nothing about legislation or delegated authorities or the like, then do not comment on it.

[JohninAB]

Huh?......... What did they get done?........ Absolutely nothing if you believe according to the head submission it's spreading west?....
They broke every rule in the book to accomplish nothing

Nikon :snapoutofit::sHa_sarcasticlol:

What rules were broken?

[super7mag]

Uh? Do as we say not as we do! Let's see prohibited weapons in a cal not legal for big game would be a start. If you don't live in affected zone and never seen the bs of this so called cull , you really have no idea about what went on

[JohninAB]

Uh? Do as we say not as we do! Let's see prohibited weapons in a cal not legal for big game would be a start. If you don't live in affected zone and never seen the bs of this so called cull , you really have no idea about what went on

They pack sidearms and we can't. Geesh just not fair is it? One thing is, they were not hunting, the were conducting a cull, a bit of a difference there. The minister or their delegate can authorize stuff, sure this was all duly authorized.

If you think laws were broken, then charge them.

[Donkey Oatey]

They pack sidearms and we can't. Geesh just not fair is it? One thing is, they were not hunting, the were conducting a cull, a bit of a difference there. The minister or their delegate can authorize stuff, sure this was all duly authorized.

If you think laws were broken, then charge them.

Ding ding ding. They weren't hunting, they were culling. Big difference.

[norma]

Huh?......... What did they get done?........ Absolutely nothing if you believe according to the head submission it's spreading west?....
They broke every rule in the book to accomplish nothing

Nikon :snapoutofit:

x2

[super7mag]

They pack sidearms and we can't. Geesh just not fair is it? One thing is, they were not hunting, the were conducting a cull, a bit of a difference there. The minister or their delegate can authorize stuff, sure this was all duly authorized.

If you think laws were broken, then charge them.

I said " do as we say not as we do" Yep they were authorized to getter done anyway any how. Even if your setting a terrible example to not only sportsmen but the general public as well . It was embarrassing , not to mention done with a high disregard for people living in the immediate area.

[duffy4]

Huh?......... What did they get done?........ Absolutely nothing if you believe according to the head submission it's spreading west?....
They broke every rule in the book to accomplish nothing

Nikon :snapoutofit:


the most efficient way to kill a large number of deer in a short time.

Thats what they wanted to do and that is what they accomplished (got done).

If you don't know what they were trying to do how can you criticize their activities?

[Don K]

I said " do as we say not as we do" Yep they were authorized to getter done anyway any how. Even if your setting a terrible example to not only sportsmen but the general public as well . It was embarrassing , not to mention done with a high disregard for people living in the immediate area.

X2

[ishootbambi]

the most efficient way to kill a large number of deer in a short time.

Thats what they wanted to do and that is what they accomplished (got done).

If you don't know what they were trying to do how can you criticize their activities?

they made it well known what they were trying to do.....and just like everywhere else it has been tried, it FAILED. the only difference here is that we all knew it would fail before they did it rather than waiting until after it was done.

duffy, the links have been provided. a few months back i gave you the benefit of the doubt when you said you were intersted in learning. you thanked me for it.....but that was a waste of time. you obviously still have not read them and still dont understand why those who have educated themselves on the issue are so upset with what has happened.

you really should take a few minutes....well okay it will take a few hours to go through it all....but you would be better off for it. srd has lied to albertans in a big way and guys like you are buying it. if it was happening around rocky i bet you would be all over finding the truth, but its far enough away that you seem content to parrot what srd has told you.

[hunter0968]

It would sure be nice to all you people who think this wasn't a bad thing to see the pictures that i had seen. i sure wish my old computer didnt crash cause i would post the on here in a heart beat. Maybee then you would see what they called a cull was an all out slaughter. if any one has those pictures please post them cause they tell the story. so many animals wasted and tossed into a pit.

[hunter0968]

if any one on here has a face book account go to search and type in stop the deer call in alberta and click on photos if this dosent prove the point of what a waste this is i dont know what will.

[Donkey Oatey]

if any one on here has a face book account go to search and type in stop the deer call in alberta and click on photos if this dosent prove the point of what a waste this is i dont know what will.

I am fairly sure that everyone has seen the pictures. I am sure if you talk to the F&W Officers involved in the cull they will all say to a man that they were sickened by having to do it.

At the time the best available information said if you can catch it quick enough culling can work. Problem being is that there was no culling on the Sask. side where the CWD was coming from. The cull was stopped in the form of Officers going out and killing the deer. It was determined that lowering the population density could help as CWD infection rates are higher when the density of animals is higher. That is why there are so many tags for the areas where CWD has been found.

I suggest that most posters go back to WalkingBuffalo's post and read the information from the CWD conference. There is a lot of great information. Another source of info is www.cwd-info.org it is a non-partisan website that is not government nor anti government. It is just for information. Has lots of great stuff that is not slanted one way or the other.

[justinO]

It would sure be nice to all you people who think this wasn't a bad thing to see the pictures that i had seen. i sure wish my old computer didnt crash cause i would post the on here in a heart beat. Maybee then you would see what they called a cull was an all out slaughter. if any one has those pictures please post them cause they tell the story. so many animals wasted and tossed into a pit.

I'm mad enough without seeing the pictures, looking will just put me over the top!!! There is no way this can be looked at as a good thing. All it was, was a waste of money and deer. They would have had to kill every deer in sask, and Alberta to be 100% clear of this so called CWD or test every deer which is impossible on the budget we have for wildlife. They did it half @#@ all it takes is one deer to slip through the cracks and we are back where we started. With last years winter nature would have done as good a job for us weak will die. We don't need helicopter assassin breaking every law in alberta. Should have let him go kill some wolves while he was at it :thinking-006:

[norma]

i tried bring the cull pictures up online , there is nothing , why would that be.