Which zones are next?

[NIKON]

Which zones are next for the cull?....... Looks like 5 of the 9 cwd cases so far this year fall are in 202 and 203.....Right on the western edge of the cwd management areas .... 3 zones away from the red deer area..... I'm willing to bet 204, 166 , 230 may be next as they border the latest cwd positive zone furthest west of ( 203 )

Is there cwd west of there?....... I don't know, do they?... Is the disease spreading or are we just testing further west?....... I appreciate all views on this subject, I don't think we have all the answers, I still remember having a talk with a fish and game Executive member (Sherwood park or edmonton )at a booth at the edmonton boat show.... He told me they submitted voluntarily 10 mule deer heads from the peace country..... I was arguing with him that the disease may be further west then they know and not just along the border...... He said NOP!... All 10 came back negative so there isn't cwd in the peace country....... HUH?
Well as the testing pushes further west we shall see, or will we run out of funds by then?

Nikon

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Dec2011.pdf

[ishootbambi]

Which zones are next for the cull?....... Looks like 5 of the 9 cwd cases so far this year fall are in 202 and 203.....Right on the western edge of the cwd management areas .... 3 zones away from the red deer area..... I'm willing to bet 204, 166 , 230 may be next as they border the latest cwd positive zone furthest west of ( 203 )

Is there cwd west of there?....... I don't know, do they?... Is the disease spreading or are we just testing further west?....... I appreciate all views on this subject, I don't think we have all the answers, I still remember having a talk with a fish and game Executive member (Sherwood park or edmonton )at a booth at the edmonton boat show.... He told me they submitted voluntarily 10 mule deer heads from the peace country..... I was arguing with him that the disease may be further west then they know and not just along the border...... He said NOP!... All 10 came back negative so there isn't cwd in the peace country....... HUH?
Well as the testing pushes further west we shall see, or will we run out of funds by then?

Nikon

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Dec2011.pdf



nikon, while i appreciate the passion you have for the subject, you need to slow down and get some facts straight and stop flinging opinions around that not only are unproven, but exceptionally unlikely.

cwd testing is going on all over the province....some from hunter submitted kills, but most from roadkill. it has been happening for quite some time. as for the thought that it was here the whole time but only recently identified....thats just false. the disease can be traced quite clearly back to game farming. it was imported from the us some time ago, and has spread to the wild population form there. the links have been provided in other threads surrounding this topic. you really should read them. it makes your arguments more valid when you have facts backing them up. theories wont help.....thats what got us into this mess in the first place.

culling was first utilized based on computer modelling. i went to one of the info briefings whe this began and tried to talk sense to those in charge, but they wouldnt listen. they showed how a computer model indicated that every deer in alberta would be infected by 2015 if i remember right. i gave all the arguments about colorado and wyoming, but it fell on deaf ears. i am not a biologist so therefore cant possibly be smart enough to read the evidence they have compiled. :scared:


the timeline in one of those links is of particular significance. it will show you the exact history of the disease. you are right that there is absolutely nothing known that is going to help. the only thing i know for sure is that killing deer to save deer is senseless. with an infection rate under .5%, it is clear that the threat is minor.

the real issue that fries me at the moment is the outright lies published in this years hunting regulations. of particular note is the line about wyomings deer population. someone really needs to fired. at first they could argue they just didnt know better.......but now there is no excuse. they are ignoring facts. it seems that someone is on a personal mission.........

[hal53]

This whole CWD thing has me confused...do guys shoot 3 mule does so they can eat their brains and spinal column fluid????...please enlighten me....

[gman1978]

Nikon please don't give anybody any ideas. There gas been way to much destruction as it is! I hope the srd does their best to fix the wrong.

[NIKON]

nikon, while i appreciate the passion you have for the subject, you need to slow down and get some facts straight and stop flinging opinions around that not only are unproven, but exceptionally unlikely.

cwd testing is going on all over the province....some from hunter submitted kills, but most from roadkill. it has been happening for quite some time. as for the thought that it was here the whole time but only recently identified....thats just false. the disease can be traced quite clearly back to game farming. it was imported from the us some time ago, and has spread to the wild population form there. the links have been provided in other threads surrounding this topic. you really should read them. it makes your arguments more valid when you have facts backing them up. theories wont help.....thats what got us into this mess in the first place.

culling was first utilized based on computer modelling. i went to one of the info briefings whe this began and tried to talk sense to those in charge, but they wouldnt listen. they showed how a computer model indicated that every deer in alberta would be infected by 2015 if i remember right. i gave all the arguments about colorado and wyoming, but it fell on deaf ears. i am not a biologist so therefore cant possibly be smart enough to read the evidence they have compiled. :scared:


the timeline in one of those links is of particular significance. it will show you the exact history of the disease. you are right that there is absolutely nothing known that is going to help. the only thing i know for sure is that killing deer to save deer is senseless. with an infection rate under .5%, it is clear that the threat is minor.

the real issue that fries me at the moment is the outright lies published in this years hunting regulations. of particular note is the line about wyomings deer population. someone really needs to fired. at first they could argue they just didnt know better.......but now there is no excuse. they are ignoring facts. it seems that someone is on a personal mission.........

Ishootsbambi

I appreciate your view on every subject offered on these threads.... You seem to have a view or opinion on everything posted on these forums threads...... Not sure where you live or if this has affected your favorite hunting areas or not........ Not sure what you consider unproven or unlikely......... Cwd is alot of ass u me ....... I'm no expert on the subject and don't try and pretend to be..... Just watching what has happened in our backyard with the helicopter rodeo to buried carcasses to testing along the border to spreading further west ......... My point is if you didn't catch it is ,is it spreading or are we just testing further west?...... I guess you missed it...... First cwd case was found near whitecourt..... It raises my eyebrow....
I don't have all the facts and don't know how many wild deer they tested after the discovery , I for one would like to see maybe a few zones west of edmonton or Calgary areas tested ........ rather then Ass u me it's only along the border..... That's my point .... Now flame away

Nikon

[bluetick]

Nikon I think what you are saying makes more sense than Ishootlittledeer does.While the cwd cull seems senseless and useless ,the spread of the disease has spread regardless of the SRD efforts to eliminate it .There are several theories on the exact source, but not concrete enough to seal the deal! SO YES ITS USELESS AND SENSELESS.
I shootlittledeer has knowledge on alot of issues ,obviously with almost 6000 posts in only a few years ,but seriously dude( ishootlittledeer) I remember you crapping on some people for grammar and spelling, and even the fact your taking over writing for some article for another organization makes me laugh when i read your lingering arguements like a drunken school teacher.

And seriously ,do you really believe all the crap the government and government paid bioligist write ?
SEEMS TO ME JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS SO, DOES NOT MAKE IT PROVEN.:love0025:

[walking buffalo]

CWD has been conclusively traced, originating from a Colorado research facility. The Whitecourt CWD case is from an IMPORTED Game Farm animal. The import records connect this case to a known lineage tracing back to Colorado.


The time to plead "We don't know" were CWD originated, or how it spread to Alberta, or if it exists/ed elsewhere naturally, is OVER., unless one wants to keep on spewing ignorance.

[NIKON]

CWD has been conclusively traced, originating from a Colorado research facility. The Whitecourt CWD case is from an IMPORTED Game Farm animal. The import records connect this case to a known lineage tracing back to Colorado.


The time to plead "We don't know" were CWD originated, or how it spread to Alberta, or if it exists/ed elsewhere naturally, is OVER., unless one wants to keep on spewing ignorance.

Walkin Buffalo
Who's arguing where it originated?..... Or if it existed before..... My arguement is quite simple..... if the first case ( In Alberta) on a game farm was found near Whitecourt , is the disease further west then they claim....Was it spread to the wild population?.... Did they actually do extensive testing ( In the whitecourt area )like they are doing now along the border?........ Or are we just playing ignorance?.......

Nikon

[shedcrazy]

I think some of you should actually look and READ into what some of the other states are doing before using them as an example. Sure no mass culls in Wyoming (anymore) but they have increased harvest, still target animals (cull) and plan on controlling the spread of CWD with hunters. I think I heard that before....:)
Right or wrong...most CWD programs are the same in NA. If you think SRD is the only one trying to prevent the spread of CWD by reducing deer numbers you are living in a bubble.
Main Wyoming site:http://gf.state.wy.us/services/education/cwd/index.asp
Wyoming management plan::http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/cwdmgplansignedbycommission2-06.pdf
2010 Summary..interesting that they are sampling moose (hunter,"targeted" and roadkills):
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/CWD2010Summary.pdf
Map..interesting %:
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/2010CWDwebmapDeer.pdf

There is some great work taking place at the Univserity of Wyoming. So I thought I would link a new study on CWD rates and the effect CWD has on deer populations in Wyoming. It seems some of the numbers on the ground are matching what some of the models said it would do. Hard to tell what will come out of the study but it's interesting stuff...if you have an open mind.:)
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/RegionalNews/RK_CWD.pdf

[walking buffalo]

Walkin Buffalo
Who's arguing where it originated?..... Or if it existed before..... My arguement is quite simple..... if the first case ( In Alberta) on a game farm was found near Whitecourt , is the disease further west then they claim....Was it spread to the wild population?.... Did they actually do extensive testing ( In the whitecourt area )like they are doing now along the border?........ Or are we just playing ignorance?.......

Nikon

I may have a better understanding of what you are asking....


There is CWD testing done by SRD outside of the CWD zones, as ISB mentioned. I suspect testing was/is carried out around the Whitecourt case.

Does CWD exist in Whitecourt or elsewhere outside of the CWD zones? Maybe, but it has not been found yet.

New CWD research has confirmed that the prion does remains viable in the soil, which can be infected from urine and feces, and this infected soil can transmit the disease back to ungulates. So that Whitecourt Game farm likely still has CWD.

[bobalong]

Which zones are next for the cull?....... Looks like 5 of the 9 cwd cases so far this year fall are in 202 and 203.....Right on the western edge of the cwd management areas .... 3 zones away from the red deer area..... I'm willing to bet 204, 166 , 230 may be next as they border the latest cwd positive zone furthest west of ( 203 )

Is there cwd west of there?....... I don't know, do they?... Is the disease spreading or are we just testing further west?....... I appreciate all views on this subject, I don't think we have all the answers, I still remember having a talk with a fish and game Executive member (Sherwood park or edmonton )at a booth at the edmonton boat show.... He told me they submitted voluntarily 10 mule deer heads from the peace country..... I was arguing with him that the disease may be further west then they know and not just along the border...... He said NOP!... All 10 came back negative so there isn't cwd in the peace country....... HUH?
Well as the testing pushes further west we shall see, or will we run out of funds by then?

Nikon

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Dec2011.pdf

After the slaughter and all the lies they told to landowners in their first cull, I am guessing that land access may be a problem with the new cull.
After all the reading I have done on CWD which is quite a bit, one of the authors has stated that culls never did work and never will. His suggestion was that the dollars they are spending slaughtering deer would have been better spent developing a vacine. Not an easy task either, nor would it be fool proof, but it is at least a long term plan that may help, whereas the cull has proven over and over not to work.
This is very similar to the gun registry, politicians were told over and over again that it does not work, but they blow bilions of dollars on it anyway. Only politicians can waste billions of dollars on projects with no repercussions. What other job in the world would allow you to blow billions of dollars and have no job loss, no lost pension, no accountability what so ever.

[NIKON]

I may have a better understanding of what you are asking....


There is CWD testing done by SRD outside of the CWD zones, as ISB mentioned. I suspect testing was/is carried out around the Whitecourt case.

Does CWD exist in Whitecourt or elsewhere outside of the CWD zones? Maybe, but it has not been found yet.

New CWD research has confirmed that the prion does remains viable in the soil, which can be infected from urine and feces, and this infected soil can transmit the disease back to ungulates. So that Whitecourt Game farm likely still has CWD.

Walking Buffalo
Appreciate your information given,
You are Bang on, that was my point........ Finger is pointed at the border but I have my suspicions...... I'm only trying to raise awareness that I really don't believe it's an all out border issue and would like to see a few zones further west maybe around Whitecourt area tested extensively... Then maybe we can put to rest the theory they are slowing the spread along the border by thinning the herd... I'm 40 now and to see a zone getting depleted makes me wonder how many good hunting years will be left in my life time around home..... Or will the up and coming hunters be able to enjoy some really good hunting years like I did around home....... Right now it's not looking good........
I do consider myself a trophy hunter and appreciate being able to have a chance when drawn ( Antlered Mule deer)to harvest a respectable animal.....
I hope my new hunting buddy will have the same oppurtunity
This is my concern......Of course jmho
Nikon

[shedcrazy]

NIXON..They did look for CWD when it was first found on the game farms. You might want to look into the history of CWD and CWD testing in Alberta more.

In response to finding CWD on two game farms in central Alberta, the Fish and Wildlife Division sampled wild deer in the vicinity of the farms in late February/early March 2003.

All 320 deer and elk collected were negative for CWD. Ongoing hunter surveillance in the area from fall 2002 to fall 2005 did not detect any evidence of CWD in wild deer.

[Kurt505]

Here's a map I found, for what it's worth.

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/WildlifeDiseases/ChronicWastingDisease/CWDUpdates/documents/CWD-PositiveMap-WildDeerAlberta-Dec2011.pdf

[NIKON]

NIXON..They did look for CWD when it was first found on the game farms. You might want to look into the history of CWD and CWD testing in Alberta more.
hedcrazy
I know they looked for the disease( around Whitecourt), was it to the extent of mandatory head submissions?..... Or just some random testing...... Any testing since 2005?.... Being that it lives in the soil can we ass u me it doesn't exist there?

Nikon to you

[NIKON]

Look at the Wyoming percentages?....... Wow or am i reading this wrong

http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/2010CWDwebmapDeer.pdf

[shedcrazy]

I don't know what WMU the farm was in...I also don't know the history of the land either. I am curious what happened to the area..is it still a game farm? Was the soil removed? Is the site fenced? Too many questions to be answered to really assume anything. All these variables would be key to determine if the area is a high to low risk for future CWD outbreaks. Great discussion though..too bad game farms got moved to Agriculture as now you have two different departments dealing with CWD.

[NIKON]

I don't know what WMU the farm was in...I also don't know the history of the land either. I am curious what happened to the area..is it still a game farm? Was the soil removed? Is the site fenced? Too many questions to be answered to really assume anything. All these variables would be key to determine if the area is a high to low risk for future CWD outbreaks. Great discussion though..too bad game farms got moved to Agriculture as now you have two different departments dealing with CWD.

Yah good discussion, Just something about this whole issue makes me concerned...... Are they doing the right thing or do we actually know enough about it......... Like I said I'm no expert on this issue, just a few things make me go hmmmm...... Maybe I'm dead wrong on my view but I'm getting very concerned about the future of our hunting area

Nikon

[ishootbambi]

Ishootsbambi

I guess you missed it...... First cwd case was found near whitecourt..... It raises my eyebrow....
I don't have all the facts and don't know how many wild deer they tested after the discovery , I for one would like to see maybe a few zones west of edmonton or Calgary areas tested ........ rather then Ass u me it's only along the border..... That's my point .... Now flame away

Nikon

that was the first case in a captive herd. as i said, it is well proven how the disease came to canada and how it is spreading in wild herds from saskatchewan westward. you can bet that the farm near whitecourt has the potential to be a source of infection becasue the disease persists in the soil. given that testing happens all over alberta is it a safe bet that if it is present, it will show up eventually.

the point i was trying to make earlier is that suggesting it has been here all along is ridiculous. im with you for the most part, but sticking to facts will make a more reasonable argument against the most offensive part of srds response so far.....the culls.

And seriously ,do you really believe all the crap the government and government paid bioligist write ?
SEEMS TO ME JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY IT IS SO, DOES NOT MAKE IT PROVEN.:love0025:


this is the drivel of a fool looking to argue for the sake of it. save it pal. if you want to discuss the issues, by all means....you can learn something. if you just want to hurl insults.....get to the back of the line. if you actually took 2 seconds to read, you would see that i am not buying what srd is trying to sell.


I think some of you should actually look and READ into what some of the other states are doing before using them as an example. Sure no mass culls in Wyoming (anymore) but they have increased harvest, still target animals (cull) and plan on controlling the spread of CWD with hunters. I think I heard that before....:)
Right or wrong...most CWD programs are the same in NA. If you think SRD is the only one trying to prevent the spread of CWD by reducing deer numbers you are living in a bubble.
Main Wyoming site:http://gf.state.wy.us/services/education/cwd/index.asp
Wyoming management plan::http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/cwdmgplansignedbycommission2-06.pdf
2010 Summary..interesting that they are sampling moose (hunter,"targeted" and roadkills):
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/CWD2010Summary.pdf
Map..interesting %:
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/2010CWDwebmapDeer.pdf

There is some great work taking place at the Univserity of Wyoming. So I thought I would link a new study on CWD rates and the effect CWD has on deer populations in Wyoming. It seems some of the numbers on the ground are matching what some of the models said it would do. Hard to tell what will come out of the study but it's interesting stuff...if you have an open mind.:)
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/RegionalNews/RK_CWD.pdf

shane, that last link contains the best stuff i havent read before. ill bet you didnt think i even did read what you provide, but i have every time.

the only surprise in this is they are claiming an infection rate of near 50%. this is the first link ive ever seen with numbers much over 10%. i dug around and couldnt find exact dates on this stuff though. up until a few years ago, there had been nowhere near those rates, so what has happened? be nice to know if there has been a recent spike or if numbers are just being manipulated. dseems very peculiar that a spike like that could happen when for 40 years, the infection rate was so low. also, i tried to find info on deer densities in the hotspot areas, but just like when i looked for colorado and their 10.8% area, i came up dry.

definitely a lot to learn there, and rather than just guessing and hollering about the culls, everyone concerned would be wise to read all the links provided. usually someone with some knowledge makes a better argument and carries more weight when they have facts than just passion alone.

[bearbuster]

What is Sask. doing? Did they not cull over there a few years ago and figure out that cull was not effective and let the disease run it's course? Not saying thats the answer but if we keep slaughtering all our deer and Sask does not not, how could we ever control it?
I don't believe the Rat Patrol is pushing the Mulies back east.

[Justin.C]

I don't know what WMU the farm was in...I also don't know the history of the land either. I am curious what happened to the area..is it still a game farm? Was the soil removed? Is the site fenced? Too many questions to be answered to really assume anything. All these variables would be key to determine if the area is a high to low risk for future CWD outbreaks. Great discussion though..too bad game farms got moved to Agriculture as now you have two different departments dealing with CWD.
Well I my self dont care if we have it or not... SRD needs to all grab a brain and stop destroying our provinces wildlife..... It sure the hell is not just the easteren part.. Now sheep and well we cant forget Alberta has no grizz either.(LOL) Other than a meteorologist srd are the only other perfesion that has no real clue and keeps there job being 50% or less rite. I dont want there job but I SURE KNOW YOU AND THE REST OF SRD ARE NOT GOD SO QUIT TRYING TO BE.Lower tags drasticaly and return dates to end nov.. Also get rid of all the extra season and tags that are involved in your cull to landowners... It all is NOT rite.....


Also were is all the other info from Colorado stating that they have NOT done anything with CWD in along time and they have the best or second best mule deer herd in the world.....?????????????????????????????

[Double Shovel]

given that they found it again this year, does anybody know how many cases versus heads submitted? Just curious to see if the percentage would be up or down.

[Justin.C]

What is Sask. doing? Did they not cull over there a few years ago and figure out that cull was not effective and let the disease run it's course? Not saying thats the answer but if we keep slaughtering all our deer and Sask does not not, how could we ever control it?
I don't believe the Rat Patrol is pushing the Mulies back east.
They are done..No more in SASK.... Alberta should watch and fallow as Sask has a bunch of guys that know how to make a great herd and keep it...EVEN WITH CWD.....:)

[Donkey Oatey]

given that they found it again this year, does anybody know how many cases versus heads submitted? Just curious to see if the percentage would be up or down.

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/cpv9448

Has all the wild and domestic animals tested.

The elk farm that had the one positive in 2002 was depopulated with no further positives. All animals that had moved off that farm in the previous 3 yrs were killed and tested with no positives. I am pretty sure that farm never repopulated. Doubt there is a risk of CWD from that farm.

But I wouldn't want facts to cloud a good slamming of the government.

[ishootbambi]

I SURE KNOW YOU AND THE REST OF SRD ARE NOT GOD SO QUIT TRYING TO BE.

hate to nitpick, but shed is not an srd employee.

[leeaspell]

hedcrazy
I know they looked for the disease( around Whitecourt), was it to the extent of mandatory head submissions?..... Or just some random testing...... Any testing since 2005?.... Being that it lives in the soil can we ass u me it doesn't exist there?

Nikon to you



I see there trucks with the little trailer every year since I moved here in 05, mostly on hwy 32 south. I figured they were testing everywhere, didnt realize it was a local event. Where is this game farm? I have never heard of anyone submiting a head. Mostly seen the trailers just pulled off the highway, probably checking road kills, which are every km on that highway. Should I be worried here??

[Justin.C]

hate to nitpick, but shed is not an srd employee.Well Sorry Shed.... I edited to srd as they are the ones I am P'd at....

[Justin.C]

I see there trucks with the little trailer every year since I moved here in 05, mostly on hwy 32 south. I figured they were testing everywhere, didnt realize it was a local event. Where is this game farm? I have never heard of anyone submiting a head. Mostly seen the trailers just pulled off the highway, probably checking road kills, which are every km on that highway. Should I be worried here??No you should not be.Nothing at all to worry about....

[leeaspell]

your "...." leads me to ask, are you sure lol

[Justin.C]

your "...." leads me to ask, are you sure lolHey you do what ever you want I for on would go out in to any zone were there is cwd not test it and eat it... I also dont buy the plate of BS that is layed out... I have read many write ups and Alberta want to be the first to stop it.... Aint going to happen. Ever.

[leeaspell]

I have eatin caribou from an area where brain worm has basically wiped them out, never thatught twice about it. Dont know much about CWD

[Justin.C]

I have eatin caribou from an area where brain worm has basically wiped them out, never thatught twice about it. Dont know much about CWD
Neither does SRD...

[leeaspell]

A guvmint agancy who doesnt know what they are talking about??? thats blasphamy

[grind stone]

This whole CWD thing has me confused...do guys shoot 3 mule does so they can eat their brains and spinal column fluid????...please enlighten me....WT:thinking-006:

[dugh]

I think the first cull was done just north of Gibbons in WMU 250, which is just north of Edmonton. Rumor had it that farmed deer were released, not sure if that is true or not.

We are seeing more mule deer around here than ever before in WMU's 248 & 250. They must have wintered better than the white tails. Anyone else notice this?
Doug

[shedcrazy]

Also were is all the other info from Colorado stating that they have NOT done anything with CWD in along time and they have the best or second best mule deer herd in the world.....?????????????????????????????

Justin you really need to start researching what you are talking about. Since I know you haven't looked it up I linked the Colorado CWD website for you and even cut and pasted their key management points. If you don't think they are doing the same as in AB you're easily fooled. They too are trying to prevent the spread and focusing on hot spots. Like AB they just quit their "Active CWD management" and have a passive CWD management program.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/BigGame/CWD/Pages/CWDHome.aspx

The Division of Wildlife’s disease management efforts are focused on:
Preventing the spread of chronic wasting disease beyond historically infected areas.
Reducing chronic wasting disease prevalence within infected areas by removing deer and elk from diseased herds.
Enforcing illegal feeding regulations and transport laws restricting the movement of deer, elk and moose from infected areas or into the state.
Continuing research in conjunction with other agencies and states to further knowledge to manage affected deer, elk and moose herds.


I would take a guess the main reason Colorado still has great mule buck hunting is the tresspass fees that limit many people from some of the best ranches not their CWD program.