Caribou poached in East Central AB

[Pudelpointer]

Posted for IR Mike: (BTW - that was a PITA!!!!)

Poached caribou
left to waste
M E L I S S A   B A R R
N o u v e l l e   S t a f f

A female woodland caribou, a threatened species under the Wildlife Act, was found dead of gun shot wounds just south of the Cold Lake Air Weapons Range gate last week, prompting Kenton Yaceyko from  Fish and Wildlife to appeal to the public for help in catching the poacher.

According to the Alberta Woodland Recovery Plan, the Cold Lake area has been a historic habitat of the animal, though the population is declining, and it is illegal to kill  or harass caribou at any time of year. 

The animal had been shot twice with a rifle some time between the nights of Dec. 7 and Dec. 12, a small quantity of meat had been removed, and the rest of the carcass left to waste, Yaceyko explained. “Woodland caribou are identified as a threatened animal under the wildlife act and as such, there are no seasons available for hunting of this species,” Yaceyko added in an email. Killing woodland caribou can lead to a fine of up to  $50,000, a prison term of one year, or both. “I am hoping  to   get further information evidence  from anyone who has  knowledge of or has seen  suspicious activity in relation  to the shooting of the caribou,” Yaceyko said. Anyone with information can call the  Fish and Wildlife office at 780-826-3142 or the Report  a Poacher  line  at  1-800-642-3800.  Callers  can remain  anonymous.

[sheephunter]

Are First Nation hunters permitted to harvest caribou in Alberta still?

[hal53]

:innocent:Are First Nation hunters permitted to harvest caribou in Alberta still?
:test:

[rielbowhunter]

Are First Nation hunters permitted to harvest caribou in Alberta still?

:thinking-006:

[sheephunter]

It was an honest question...I don't know the answer. Perhaps the caribou wasn't poached at all?

[hal53]

Thinking Sheep should have been a lawyer......LOL!!!

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

:party0052:

[grind stone]

Are First Nation hunters permitted to harvest caribou in Alberta still?I have to ask what dose that have to do with a poached caribou :thinking-006:

[sheephunter]

I have to ask what dose that have to do with a poached caribou :thinking-006:

If it was legally shot then it wouldn't be poached.

[hal53]

I have to ask what dose that have to do with a poached caribou :thinking-006:
Maybe lots, probably nothing???...dunno...it was just a question......

[sheephunter]

Thinking Sheep should have been a lawyer......LOL!!!

Honestly Hal, it was just a question that I don't know the answer to. It would kind of change the speculation that a poacher was at work if indeed it was a legal harvest. Does anyone know?

[Loper]

Even if they could legally kill it they could not leave most of the carcass to waste.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Honestly Hal, it was just a question that I don't know the answer to. It would kind of change the speculation that a poacher was at work if indeed it was a legal harvest. Does anyone know?

X2...it is an honest question...it could be a blow up in the media, if it was taken "legally" then who ever took it should speak up.....

LC

[sheephunter]

Even if they could legally kill it they could not leave most of the carcass to waste.

Again, I don't know if that applies to First Nation hunters or not. Anyone?

[conan]

I have to ask what dose that have to do with a poached caribou :thinking-006:

It has everything to do with it. Like Sheep said if it was taken by First nations then it would not be a matter of poaching just a matter of wasting which is unlawful for everyone.
Why are you guys so scared of raising any questions about our First Nation brothers?:snapoutofit:

[Ryry4]

Honestly Hal, it was just a question that I don't know the answer to. It would kind of change the speculation that a poacher was at work if indeed it was a legal harvest. Does anyone know?

I believe they still can, I couldn't find anything that said the government shut down native hunting but I could be wrong.

[Pudelpointer]

Honestly Hal, it was just a question that I don't know the answer to. It would kind of change the speculation that a poacher was at work if indeed it was a legal harvest. Does anyone know?

Either way, at the very least the responsible party should be charged with allowing edible meat to spoil.

I believe the deer season was still open during the time window. Could be mistaken ID, could be the person knew it was a caribou and didn't care. Could be someone was completely stupid, took it home and had a buddy say WT*!!?!?!

I don't know for sure how the SARA applies to FN (though I probably should). I believe that the courts have ruled that conservation is a valid reason for restricting treaty rights. In this case we are talking about a listed species, so I say that whoever it is, they better have a lawyer.

[Ryry4]

Even if they could legally kill it they could not leave most of the carcass to waste.

I have seen some wasted moose that would make me think otherwise.

[Loper]

Again, I don't know if that applies to First Nation hunters or not. Anyone?

Subsistence hunting does not include killing animals and leaving them. They would be in violation no matter if it was a moose, a deer or a caribou.

[grind stone]

If it was legally shot then it wouldn't be poached. Ok sure

are you thinking first nation had something to do with it .

[sheephunter]

I believe they still can, I couldn't find anything that said the government shut down native hunting but I could be wrong.

Thanks!

[sheephunter]

Ok sure

are you thinking first nation had something to do with it .

I have no idea, just thought it was a possibility.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Why are you guys so scared of raising any questions about our First Nation brothers?:snapoutofit:

Usually a simple question about our "FN Brothers" (FN = first nations) Gets extreme views from both sides of the coin, heats up into a slur-slinging argument followed by a prompt and timely thread closing by the mods......thats why its the pink elephant around here.

It doesn't HAVE to be that way....it just IS that way.

LC

[Ryry4]

Either way, at the very least the responsible party should be charged with allowing edible meat to spoil.

I believe the deer season was still open during the time window. Could be mistaken ID, could be the person knew it was a caribou and didn't care. Could be someone was completely stupid, took it home and had a buddy say WT*!!?!?!

I don't know for sure how the SARA applies to FN (though I probably should). I believe that the courts have ruled that conservation is a valid reason for restricting treaty rights. In this case we are talking about a listed species, so I say that whoever it is, they better have a lawyer.

Your right, either way someone needs to get their hand slapped good.

If someone mistook it for a deer they need to get slapped in the face as well.

As far as it being a listed species I'm not sure it applies to FN. I say that because I know of a FN guy down south here that shot a grizzly last year and is planning on going out for another one and he's within the law, as it stands right now.

[Pudelpointer]

It has everything to do with it. Like Sheep said if it was taken by First nations then it would not be a matter of poaching just a matter of wasting which is unlawful for everyone.
Why are you guys so scared of raising any questions about our First Nation brothers?:snapoutofit:

Because every thread quickly gets locked because some people can't keep their ignorant opinions to themselves while they make (sometimes) valid arguments; in other words, rational discussions quickly become irrational.

[sheephunter]

Subsistence hunting does not include killing animals and leaving them. They would be in violation no matter if it was a moose, a deer or a caribou.

Are you certain of that?

[Ryry4]

Subsistence hunting does not include killing animals and leaving them. They would be in violation no matter if it was a moose, a deer or a caribou.

Your right, but it does happen.

[sakogreywolf]

Even if they could legally kill it they could not leave most of the carcass to waste.

You beat me to it.

[sheephunter]

Because every thread quickly gets locked because some people can't keep their ignorant opinions to themselves while they make (sometimes) valid arguments; in other words, rational discussions quickly become irrational.

Sadly you are right and that was most certainly not my intent. It's just sometimes te media blows things way out of proportion when there is a logical explanation. I was just wondering if that was the case here. No need for this to turn ugly but sadly, it likely will.

[echo]

Again, I don't know if that applies to First Nation hunters or not. Anyone?

yes they are... they still hunt them in the conklin area.

[Pudelpointer]

Your right, either way someone needs to get their hand slapped good.

If someone mistook it for a deer they need to get slapped in the face as well.

As far as it being a listed species I'm not sure it applies to FN. I say that because I know of a FN guy down south here that shot a grizzly last year and is planning on going out for another one and he's within the law, as it stands right now.

Well last year I do not believe grizzly were actually listed, though they might be now. I also think it has to do with its status (endangered vs. threatened vs. special concern).

Off the top of my head there was a ruling from the Supreme Court a few years back that spelled out that conservation trumps FN food/trade/ceremonial rights. This was in relation to a Fraser River salmon run (Thompson R. Coho or Sockeye) and the court said that DFO could stop the StoLo (pretty sure) from fishing, however they had priority for any fish that came available, before commercial or sports fishermen.

[grind stone]

It has everything to do with it. Like Sheep said if it was taken by First nations then it would not be a matter of poaching just a matter of wasting which is unlawful for everyone.
Why are you guys so scared of raising any questions about our First Nation brothers?:snapoutofit:

No it doesn’t :snapoutofit: if it was taken by first nation folks it would be gone not wasted and anyone with half a brain knows wasting meat is unlawful why are so many so quick to blame.:thinking-006:

[Pudelpointer]

Sadly you are right and that was most certainly not my intent. It's just sometimes te media blows things way out of proportion when there is a logical explanation. I was just wondering if that was the case here. No need for this to turn ugly but sadly, it likely will.

Hey, it was the first thing that popped into my head! It is a valid question that should not result in a mudslinging.

I wish we could have just one conversation on here about these issues without it getting locked because of ignorance.

[hal53]

No it doesn’t :snapoutofit: if it was taken by first nation folks it would be gone not wasted and anyone with half a brain knows wasting meat is unlawful why are so many so quick to blame.:thinking-006:
Because lots of us have seen otherwise....sorry.....

[Pudelpointer]

No it doesn’t :snapoutofit: if it was taken by first nation folks it would be gone not wasted and anyone with half a brain knows wasting meat is unlawful why are so many so quick to blame.:thinking-006:

Which was my second thought.... which makes me think it is likely something else going on.

I don't think anyone is blaming anyone. I think Sheep asked a valid question, and it prompted a couple responses. If it was a non-FN person they need to get hammered for the poaching and for the wasted meat, if it is a FN person, then they need to get hammered for the wasted meat at the very least.

I think we can all agree that the person needs to get caught, and needs to be persuaded not to do it again.

[Ryry4]

Well last year I do not believe grizzly were actually listed, though they might be now. I also think it has to do with its status (endangered vs. threatened vs. special concern).


Right, grizzlies are listed as "threatened". I forget that because everyone with a microphone and camera in their face says they're "endangered". Makes sense they would have different rules. But, I have heard of them being hunted in Alberta by FN.

[Ryry4]

Which was my second thought.... which makes me think it is likely something else going on.

I don't think anyone is blaming anyone. I think Sheep asked a valid question, and it prompted a couple responses. If it was a non-FN person they need to get hammered for the poaching and for the wasted meat, if it is a FN person, then they need to get hammered for the wasted meat at the very least.

I think we can all agree that the person needs to get caught, and needs to be persuaded not to do it again.

X2. Right on the money Pudel.

[Pudelpointer]

Because lots of us have seen otherwise....sorry.....

And I have seen lots of deer dumped with just there heads cut off, or just their backstraps and hind 1/4s removed that I know were not from FN.

I have heard it all, and seen a lot, and unless you witness it first hand, with your own eyes, you are speculating.

[sheephunter]

From my experience there are good and bad people from all nations. Anyhow, it was just an innocent question. I'm sorry I brought it. I'm out!

[hal53]

And I have seen lots of deer dumped with just there heads cut off, or just their backstraps and hind 1/4s removed that I know were not from FN.

I have heard it all, and seen a lot, and unless you witness it first hand, with your own eyes, you are speculating.
Trust me...I'm not speculating...this thread should be done shortly...I'm out as well....can't even get a reasonable response to a question anymore.....

[C Taylor]

I was working with a native crew by Conklin a couple years ago and asked them if they were allowed to hunt caribou. They didn't get mad as I don't see any racist in the question.
Anyways they said that srd had met with the reserve and the elders had agreed that the caribou shouldnt be hunted. Anyone that would shoot one would be looked down on by the res.
Don't have the regs with me but pretty sure the season closed nov 30. 500 stays open longer but that's south of where this caribou would be.

[jaylow?]

this thread is complete bs. as usual a thread about one thing has become an argument about something else. something that may have nothing to do with the thread at all. good going boys.:rolleye2:

[Redfrog]

From my experience there are good and bad people from all nations. Anyhow, it was just an innocent question. I'm sorry I brought it. I'm out!

I'm glad you type faster than me. That was the first question that came to me and for the same reasons.

Anyway better you run the gauntlet for your "disrespect" than me.:)

see what I did there?

[conan]

Actually I think it was a black guy

[bearbait]

im sure anything listed thretened, endangered, protected is off the cards for everyone...no matter what race they are..they are listed for a reason..fn guys cant take grizz just like us and carabou is the same according to f&w officer i know..
rob

[riden]

I would be shocked if they can't.

I am very surprised to see a tag system for bison accepted in Zama. Even if FN agreed not to hunt the bou because of numbers, no way they would agree to put it in writing.

But, I could be wrong, it's just my opinion.

[just_dave]

I can see it being someone that saw a caribou, got a little too excited and made the poor choice to shoot it, take a little meat and quickly gtfo of there. Probably wasn't their first bad decision to shoot wildlife they shouldn't be shooting, most likely not their last.

[riden]

im sure anything listed thretened, endangered, protected is off the cards for everyone...no matter what race they are..they are listed for a reason..fn guys cant take grizz just like us and carabou is the same according to f&w officer i know..
rob

But that doesn't make sense.

Caribou and grizz are listed as endangered/threatened at the provincial level.

FN are a federal concern and all the treaties signed were at with federal gov't. So how could the province amend the federal treaty?

[echo]

I was working with a native crew by Conklin a couple years ago and asked them if they were allowed to hunt caribou. They didn't get mad as I don't see any racist in the question.
Anyways they said that srd had met with the reserve and the elders had agreed that the caribou shouldnt be hunted. Anyone that would shoot one would be looked down on by the res.
Don't have the regs with me but pretty sure the season closed nov 30. 500 stays open longer but that's south of where this caribou would be.

just last fall they were still approaching people wondering who wanted to buy moose or caribou outside the bar in conklin !! this is not hear say as i was one of the people asked !!

[ishootbambi]

Actually I think it was a black guy

nope....definitely azn!

good grief....everything has to be an argument these days. whatsa matter witchoo tj.......gotta stir the pot in every thread....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Rockymtnx]

Subsistence hunting does not include killing animals and leaving them. They would be in violation no matter if it was a moose, a deer or a caribou.

Are you certain of that?

Your right, but it does happen.

Ryry, your right. I have reported the wastage of meat several times, and every time been told that they cant do much about it if some of the meat was taken. I've also been told it becomes a political nightmare for the justice system.

The article mentions that some meat was taken, so I too would question the possibility of a substance hunter.

[Ryry4]

Ryry, your right. I have reported the wastage of meat several times, and every time been told that they cant do much about it if some of the meat was taken. I've also been told it becomes a political nightmare for the justice system.

The article mentions that some meat was taken, so I too would question the possibility of a substance hunter.

Go to love the system at work, huhÉ :angry3:

[Fox red lab]

Are First Nation hunters permitted to harvest caribou in Alberta still?

It's just a question people, get a grip. Merry Christmas!

[Innoka]

Ryry, your right. I have reported the wastage of meat several times, and every time been told that they cant do much about it if some of the meat was taken. I've also been told it becomes a political nightmare for the justice system.

The article mentions that some meat was taken, so I too would question the possibility of a substance hunter.

Substance abuser? What the heck is a "substance hunter"?

[hal53]

Substance abuser? What the heck is a "substance hunter"?
Think we all know what he meant...but good deflection....

[greylynx]

I've also been told it becomes a political nightmare for the justice system.

Yes indeed.

The end result is provincial lawyers paid for by taxpayers fighting federal lawyers paid for by taxpayers

This is crazy.

[IR_mike]

To answer some of the questions asked (To the best of my limited ability):sHa_sarcasticlol:

Yes TJ I believe Treaty/Status individuals can still harvest caribou.

I have a local freind who is treaty and liveing off the reserve who harvested a caribou in the same general area about 10 years ago and went through a F and W checkstop set up at la corey.

He showed his card and went on his way, So this tells me it is legal.

It was in WMU 514 in which all ungulate seasons ended on Nov 30th.

I have seen status people succcessfuly harvest animals (moose) just off the road a few hundred yards north of the CNRL wolf lake office and in other locations in the immediate area.

They seem to buy the same rechargable reciprocating saws at canadian tire that I do so the animals are usually gutted, skinned, and quartered right there with just forelegs and a gut pile left.

Not a lot of wastage as they seem to like cutting the hinds into steaks and roasts like we do and then turning the less good parts into sausage, smokies etc.

Or they drop the guts out of it, wrap a sling around the neck drag it do a ditch or other raised area and suck it into the back of a pickup (especially if its cold out) :)

I dont think it was a status individual for the fact they could have took the whole animal without fear of any kind of legal problems.

I only had it posted because a lot of people who do not live locally work and travel the same road.

Might have to grab the .204 and see if I can crack a magpie or yote off the carcass tommorow.:fighting0021::)

[IR_mike]

PS. Thanks pudlepointer for posting.

A merry HO HO to you and your smoking hot wife.

(Im not kidding guys shes a real looker.) :love: :love0025::innocent:

[rielbowhunter]

But that doesn't make sense.

Caribou and grizz are listed as endangered/threatened at the provincial level.

FN are a federal concern and all the treaties signed were at with federal gov't. So how could the province amend the federal treaty?

2x that!

[antlerguy]

Being a taxidermist I know for a fact that a person that holds a card can take a Grizzly for subsistence. It is still registered with the F+W. This being said I am not sure on Caribou in Alberta.

[woods_walker]

Hopefully they catch whom ever wasted the meat of this caribou. Must have been very little meat taken to have it classified as poaching by Fish and Wildlife when a caribou could have been harvested by a First Nations individual (not saying it was).

Did some quick searching and the Alberta Woodland Caribou Recovery Plan2004-05 to 2013/14 makes mention that in addition to all of the other issues that are contributing to caribou population reductions in the province, continued harvest of caribou by First Nations is also a threat to the caribou population. Not the cause, but also a contributing factor to the decline of the population. The numbers are that low in some areas.

Also found this interesting court document from September 8, 2010:
http://www.woodwardandcompany.com/media/pdfs/Caribou_JR_-_Filed_Notice_of_Application_-_colour.pdf

The 'Coles Notes' version and relevance to where this thread has headed is that legal action is filed by members of and on the behalf of several First Nations groups in Alberta against the Minister of Environment and the Attorney General of Canada for failure to discharge his statutory duties to protect and provide for the recovery of the boreal population of woodland caribou under the Species at Risk Act.

One of the items under the grounds for the application is that under Treaty 6 or Treaty 8 , the Applicant First Nations have the constitutionally protected right to hunt woodland caribou for sustenance.

There is a lot more to this document, but I think it makes it pretty clear that First Nations in the area have the right to harvest caribou. I think that is the answer that Sheephunter is sorry that he asked.

At the end of the day, still a shame that any wildlife was shot and had a significant amount of the meat wasted regardless of who was pulling the trigger. Even more of a shame when it is one of the species at risk and I think we can all agree to that.

[Huntsman]

It was an ignorant white guy who did it........its obvious!!
Prolly an italian or a portuguese or worse a quebec'r :O
:fighting0074:

There I said it :sHa_sarcasticlol:
Merry Christmas to ALL my brothers out there..whatever race or colour :love0025:

[ndw]

yes the FN can hunt anything they want and no they do not have to take everything like we do, go down around rocky mountain house and other areas and check out oilfield lease roads near some of the reserves or talk to some of the workers, they will tell you everything you want to know, one way or another and yes they can shoot as much as they want, when they want.

[Big Daddy Badger]

You know that this post is about a year old...right?:)

[Grizzly Adams]

It was an honest question...I don't know the answer. Perhaps the caribou wasn't poached at all?

Nah, they wouldn't do that, good stewards of the environment and all that.:D

Grizz

[Donny Bear]

a whole year:sHa_shakeshout:

[Snap Shot]

How did this thread get a pulse.?

[Jims71duster]

C'mon mods,,, this thing should have been shut down on the first page. There are lots of aboriginal people on here that support this and many other hunting and sporting sites that should not have to put up with generalizations like these.,,lock it down and put it with all the others that started the same way on the same issues