212 special Elk

[ducky_hunter]

212 special Elk.
has anyone shot an elk yet.
with it been this warm you would think lot of good food still in the trees.

[monstermulie]

sure seen a pile out there on monday, haven't seen them the past couple nights but I've been getting home late.

Wen't for a drive around before I went home last night and didn't see much in the fields.

[shorty]

I saw some today just north of Sheep River but I don't have permission there and there was two trucks looking at them. If anyone wants to get together Fri Maybe we could work together.

[Giuseppe Sparatutto]

I was out today and saw lots of sign of elk but didn't actually come across any.

Has anyone put one on the ground yet?

[trouty]

call the F & W office in High River. Ask for whoever is monitoring the hunt this year. Was Roger in past. Great guy and will point you to where they have been and are. They are out there every day. If you are out and see them, stop and talk to them.

You know it's the whole zone right, not just the map they gave out

[Rackmastr]

call the F & W office in High River. Ask for whoever is monitoring the hunt this year. Was Roger in past. Great guy and will point you to where they have been and are. They are out there every day. If you are out and see them, stop and talk to them.

You know it's the whole zone right, not just the map they gave out

Two very good points and good advice. This year sure will be different than last year no doubt, but the elk should still be herded up good and feeding on easy feed sources. Problem I would see would be the fact that most times a lot of the herds would be back in the trees before light comes with this weather.

I was lucky...last year we drove up in the evening and I shot a cow the next morning an hour into the hunt. We almost knocked 2 over but didnt quite get that lucky. Weather was perfect, good and deep snow, and we had some fun for a day or two.

Roger was great when we met him, and I'm sure he's praying for good snow as well to make this hunt a success and get some cows killed...

[Icon]

You know it's the whole zone right, not just the map they gave out

Really? Why give out the map then? Has anyone actually confirmed this with F&W?

[monstermulie]

Really? Why give out the map then? Has anyone actually confirmed this with F&W?

because that is the area with the highest concentration of elk, and where the farmers and ranchers have been complaining about damage from the elk

[Icon]

because that is the area with the highest concentration of elk, and where the farmers and ranchers have been complaining about damage from the elk

Thanks Monstermulie! That makes sense!

[nemo]

You know it's the whole zone right, not just the map they gave out[/QUOTE]

Well they fooled me. They sent me an access map, appeared to be the boundry inside of a zone in which you could gain hunting access. Got me on that one.

Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

[trouty]

yes, they want more shot in this area but it is the whole zone. Still need your permission slip signed.

[ducky_hunter]

i have decided not to buy my tag so if you have one there are some elk NE side of zone 212 between Hwy 566 and 567 in the valleys there. they fallow them

[nemo]

because that is the area with the highest concentration of elk, and where the farmers and ranchers have been complaining about damage from the elk

I haven't stopped thinking about this. The information I have Identifies this hunt as the 2011 Primative Weapons Antlerless Elk Hunt, Portion of WMU 212 (see map). I think if your going to venture out beyond the boundaries set out by the map I'de be gettting some clarity.

Further to the above: Quote: your information package contains a map showing the hunt area boundry and excluded areas (no hunting).unquote
I hope no one else misinterpeded this, could cost you big!

[Rackmastr]

I haven't stopped thinking about this. The information I have Identifies this hunt as the 2011 Primative Weapons Antlerless Elk Hunt, Portion of WMU 212 (see map). I think if your going to venture out beyond the boundaries set out by the map I'de be gettting some clarity.

Last year it was all of 212, even though they had sent the map with a 'boundary' line on it. I cant speak for what changes they made this year. I guess it depends what your actual tag/license say on them.

They sent that stupid map out, even though you were allowed to hunt in all of 212. What it did was create a PILE of confusion amongst hunters. I shot my cow just outside the map area.

Like I said, I dont know if changes were made this year but last year it was all of 212 to hunt.

[nemo]

Last year it was all of 212, even though they had sent the map with a 'boundary' line on it. I cant speak for what changes they made this year. I guess it depends what your actual tag/license say on them.

They sent that stupid map out, even though you were allowed to hunt in all of 212. What it did was create a PILE of confusion amongst hunters. I shot my cow just outside the map area.

Like I said, I dont know if changes were made this year but last year it was all of 212 to hunt.

Please see my edit it is very clear that there are boundries within the zone.

[walking buffalo]

I haven't stopped thinking about this. The information I have Identifies this hunt as the 2011 Primative Weapons Antlerless Elk Hunt, Portion of WMU 212 (see map). I think if your going to venture out beyond the boundaries set out by the map I'de be gettting some clarity.


The Hunting Regulations say the draw is valid in wmu 212.
Not a portion of 212, but all of 212.

See Item 29, Table 4, very close to the bottom of the document.
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=wildlife+regulation&language=en&searchTitle=Statutes+and+Regulations+of+Alberta&path=/en/ab/laws/regu/alta-reg-143-1997/latest/alta-reg-143-1997.html


It's too bad this confusion is being allowed to continue. I spoke with F&W High River (office # 403 652-8338), Rodger Luke, and he hoped that the info package would be corrected for this year.

Any questions, Call Rodger or Bev at the F&W office.

[pottymouth]

A buddy of mine got a letter from the ministers office, saying it's the whole zone years back. Everytime someone in his party gets drawn they confirm it and off they go, outside the boundary on the outlined map!

[Rackmastr]

A buddy of mine got a letter from the ministers office, saying it's the whole zone years back. Everytime someone in his party gets drawn they confirm it and off they go, outside the boundary on the outlined map!

Ya, we confirmed it last year via regulations, tag, and a quick phone call. Its pretty obvious in legislation and on the tag. The map and description left a lot to be desired....

[nemo]

In the book "Alberta Hunting Draws" it indicates:
"A map will be sent to successful applicants identifying access opportunities for the hunt. Hunters are required to carry written permission from the
landowner allowing access while hunting under this licence."
Then the access package says as previously stated: that the hunt is within the boundry.
I'm just confused is all! WTF!
How does any of this lead to interpeting the whole zone?

[Rackmastr]

All comes down to whats in the regulations (not the printed regs but the regulations).

If you look at the link that WB provided, it states that the season is in 212. Not a specified section of 212.

[nemo]

All comes down to whats in the regulations (not the printed regs but the regulations).

If you look at the link that WB provided, it states that the season is in 212. Not a specified section of 212.

Yep, followed the link. Let me know when they're running a course on reading this stuff.
How do you find "Item 29, Table 4, very close to the bottom of the document.
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlig...-143-1997.html
, sure got me hooped! But I trust you if you read it! LOL!

[Rackmastr]

Go to the Table #4 at the bottom....its built in a table format so you should see it there.

[nemo]

Go to the Table #4 at the bottom....its built in a table format so you should see it there.

Thanks, well I'de have to agree there are no boundaries stipulated here. So all the printed matter about boundries is hogwash, Wow!

[shorty]

High River fish and wildlife told me it was the whole zone.

[dennisb]

If you look at the tag you purchased it says WMU 212 ...not part of WMU 212

[JessS]

I have clarified this with Bev @ High River F&W and it is only the mapped area provided to draw recipients that is legal to hunt on not the entire zone. Anyone questioning this should call 403-652-8330 before they end up in a load of trouble.

[walking buffalo]

I have clarified this with Bev @ High River F&W and it is only the mapped area provided to draw recipients that is legal to hunt on not the entire zone. Anyone questioning this should call 403-652-8330 before they end up in a load of trouble.

Ask Bev to put that in an email. Then ask Rodger Luke for the correct answer.



What a mess this 212 hunt map has created....

[nemo]

Ask Bev to put that in an email. Then ask Rodger Luke for the correct answer.



What a mess this 212 hunt map has created....

X2. This truely needs clarification. It kind of reminds me of Christianity 20,000 diferent interpretations! LOL!

[Rackmastr]

Ask Bev to put that in an email. Then ask Rodger Luke for the correct answer.



What a mess this 212 hunt map has created....

x2....is Bev an officer there?

[walking buffalo]

x2....is Bev an officer there?

No. I don't know what her title would be, Office manager?

Bev is a very nice lady, but she is not up to speed on every provincial and county wildlife and firearms regulation. Who is? Like many in the F&W offices across Alberta, staff are overwhelmed, and often asked to perform duties outside of their training. Rodger Luke is the High River Fish and Wildlife officer, and the person hunters want to talk to regarding this issue.

I just left messages with Bev and Rodger. Being late on Friday, I may not have a chance to talk with Rodger until next week. I'll ask for and post up an email from F&W confirming that the Licence is valid for all of 212.

[JessS]

Walking Buffalo I spoke with the High River Office just minutes before my post and I was told it was deffinately limited to the mapped area. Is it Roger Glukie you are reffering too as another contact in High River. I havent ever met a Roger Luke unless he is new? I do know Roger Glukie is a long time officer out of High River though. Im just hoping to find a straight answer because I took next week off to try my luck. :sign0176:

[precloading]

I asked fish and wildlife officer and was told first it was within the boundary, then asked where it said that in the actual regulations and it was obvious it was the whole zone. There is also nothing in the actual regulations about it having to be 40 acres or larger. The regulations are the only law you can be charged under, not what someone says it is.

[Justin.C]

Walking Buffalo I spoke with the High River Office just minutes before my post and I was told it was deffinately limited to the mapped area. Is it Roger Glukie you are reffering too as another contact in High River. I havent ever met a Roger Luke unless he is new? I do know Roger Glukie is a long time officer out of High River though. Im just hoping to find a straight answer because I took next week off to try my luck. :sign0176:

Hunt anywhere in the zone. I can not believe how many people don't have a clue. It is for 212. Not were that dam map is. You can hunt the whole zone. I don't care what some body said. As the hunt they had a few years ago before this draw there was a small little zone the designated. That is the only time it was not the whole Zone. As WB and rackmaster have stated whole zone. Why is anybody not listening. I shot mine out of that area last year. Them map is were they want you to shoot them as that is were they have the problem with the elk. Re read the regs and you tag. If it says anything but wmu 212. Than worry about it. So go out anywhere in the zone and kill them. I also have been hunting this zone and have had family own land in this zone for over 30 years so trust me when I say whole zone.

[walking buffalo]

Walking Buffalo I spoke with the High River Office just minutes before my post and I was told it was deffinately limited to the mapped area. Is it Roger Glukie you are reffering too as another contact in High River. I havent ever met a Roger Luke unless he is new? I do know Roger Glukie is a long time officer out of High River though. Im just hoping to find a straight answer because I took next week off to try my luck. :sign0176:


Rodger Glukie is his name.

Thanks for the correction. I was working off my old notes from the first time I was given his name.

I spoke with or saw Rodger every day that I hunted this draw last year. The first time I met Rodger, he confirmed that the licence is valid for all of 212, then he proceded to give locations and contact names for landowners Outside of the map area who were having elk issues.



I asked fish and wildlife officer and was told first it was within the boundary, then asked where it said that in the actual regulations and it was obvious it was the whole zone. There is also nothing in the actual regulations about it having to be 40 acres or larger. The regulations are the only law you can be charged under, not what someone says it is.


^^^ This is also correct, despite what the letter says. In fact I questioned Bev on the 40 acre rule, she told me that it was in force. I then asked Rodger, and he confirmed that there is NO minimun size land legislation.



As Justin so eloquently explained, the map and letter were valid in a previous hunt years ago. The map and letter are NOT valid with the present legislation for this hunt. I sure hope F&W clears up this mess before next years hunt.

[Justin.C]

Rodger Glukie is his name.

Thanks for the correction. I was working off my old notes from the first time I was given his name.

I spoke with or saw Rodger every day that I hunted this draw last year. The first time I met Rodger, he confirmed that the licence is valid for all of 212, then he proceded to give locations and contact names for landowners Outside of the map area who were having elk issues.




^^^ This is also correct, despite what the letter says. In fact I questioned Bev on the 40 acre rule, she told me that it was in force. I then asked Rodger, and he confirmed that there is NO minimun size land legislation.



As Justin so eloquently explained, the map and letter were valid in a previous hunt years ago. The map and letter are NOT valid with the present legislation for this hunt. I sure hope F&W clears up this mess before next years hunt.Sorry. I cant help myself. This hunt is a joke how the package they send you is misleading to were you think you have to be in there map. There are elk though out the whole zone. Also why do people apply for these type of hunts unless you have a clue of the area and the rules of the hunt.

[Rackmastr]

Temps dropping hard.....blowing snow......elk are gonna start hittin some hay stacks and feeding later in the morning if I was a betting man....

[nemo]

Sorry. I cant help myself. This hunt is a joke how the package they send you is misleading to were you think you have to be in there map. There are elk though out the whole zone. Also why do people apply for these type of hunts unless you have a clue of the area and the rules of the hunt.
The reason people apply for this hunt is because the Draw book states you will be given a map for access and we know that the elk are in there. Besides how can you learn an area without hunting it. Tell me someone who doesn't want to hunt close to home.
I think this statement is f***in stupid and not thought out very well. In my mind you owe many people an apology.
My two cents!

[Justin.C]

The reason people apply for this hunt is because the Draw book states you will be given a map for access and we know that the elk are in there. Besides how can you learn an area without hunting it. Tell me someone who doesn't want to hunt close to home.
I think this statement is f***in stupid and not thought out very well. In my mind you owe many people an apology.
My two cents!

I dont owe an appology... I know lots of people that would kill an elk in this zone every year but people around the province with no clue of this hunt just come down the day before and wonder why they dont get one.... This hunt is only to lower numbers..... I hunt this zone all season.. I have been since I was old enough to hunt.... It takes years to get access to allot of this zone if you ever do.... The info that is stated in that book is a straight out lie... people just dont let everybody on there land and the map only helps you to not have to buy a county map for this part of the zone..... As for you learning the zone for bow hunting... I really wish you luck with that.... I will put alot of $$$$ on that that wont happen as this is the hardest place in the whole province to get permission as they are all full as most have the same couple guys that hunt there land... If you are lucky enough to get permission that is awesome..... But most time you have to spend years building a repore..... Also the outfitter has a huge chunk locked up so no one is alould on but him........ But hey I wish all of you luck as if you do not do research into this one you are waisting your time and money....



Nemo do you have a tag????? if not why is my statement bug you.... I am stateing fact so if people do put in this zone they have a chance..... I know everybody is entitled to apply and am ok with that but this is a cull hunt do to to many elk.....so to make this hunt a sucess you have to give her a 110% as this aint that easy as land is not that big and they move vey quick to leave as they are figureing out this hunt and going were you cant or can get out fast.....


too all with tags Good luck..... As I have helped quit a few on this hunt already....

[Justin.C]

In the book "Alberta Hunting Draws" it indicates:
"A map will be sent to successful applicants identifying access opportunities for the hunt. Hunters are required to carry written permission from the
landowner allowing access while hunting under this licence."
Then the access package says as previously stated: that the hunt is within the boundry.
I'm just confused is all! WTF!
How does any of this lead to interpeting the whole zone?I just reread this.... It never states that this is all that you can hunt.... These people in the map are the people that agreed to this hunt to allow this hunt to even happen... That is why they are not redded out as no hunting..... It would take way to long to do the whole zone... also this is were 85-90% of the elk are in this zone during archery season... But there is herds out side of this map and as the hunt starts more move out of this zone in the make....

Nemo if you do need help pm me and I will try and help you out.... As you are taking my post personal.... Not the case as I am makeing a broader statement to other people that have contacted me on here or through friends....

[nemo]

Yes I had a tag and 212 happens to be my back yard. I have spent years nurturing relationships for access. I was misled by this bullcrap, I went with the information I was given. How nieve of me to believe what I the government printed, the problem is, I read it. I am very aware of the difficulty in finding permission but I did aquire it from every one I asked. Problem is that you can see them and another day is wasted trying to gain access. Yes, they sure do move fast, especially when they are hunted hard and most of us are led to believe this is the only area we can hunt them.
The draw is what determines who hunts here. Maybe you should take it up with the ministry; that only long time hunters of an area or locals need apply to keep those who don't have a "clue of the area or the rules of the hunt" out. How ignorant an attitude would that be?
As for helping others in this hunt, work on the people responsible for misguiding your fellow hunters. Then maybe we can spread out and cull the elk as intended. Maybe on your families land! LOL! :love0025:
Best regards,
Nemo

[walking buffalo]

Justin, you sure are cranky for your age.



Rodger left a phone message this morning confirming the licence is valid for ALL of 212. Speaking with Bev a few minutes ago, she told me the hunt is valid Only in the contact map boundary. :rolleye2:

When questioned further, Bev did agree that the legal hunt boundary is ALL of 212, but she was advised by the now retired local Bio to tell people to hunt within the map. She expressed that she will now inform people that ALL of 212 is open for the licence.

When Rodger gets some time in from the field, he will send an email confirming the legal boundary of the hunt is all of 212.

Bev will be working on having the information letter and map re-worded for next years hunt.


It's cold! Time to get those elk!

[Rackmastr]

Good on ya Dale....hate to see that kinda confusion for years to follow, especially after it was addressed last year several times.

Sure is cold.....those elk are gonna start getting knocked over!!!

I was lucky last year, this was an hour hunt for me at most. We should have managed 2 down but ended up with 1 between the two of us. Cold, deep snow, and easy permission.....gotta love it! And hey, its been over 10 years since I've hunted in the area and I still applied!! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

[walking buffalo]

The information package is long overdue for correction.


Will someone please email me the 2011/2012 - 212 Antlerless Elk Special Licence information package and map. Send a pm for my email address.

Scan and save is likely the best way to pass the info.

I'm drafting a letter that will be sent to the SRD personell that can make sure this information package is updated for next year.

Thanks.

[nemo]

I'll send you copies a little later. PM your email.
Regards,
Nemo

[thrude1]

when F&W stopped us to comfirm our tags he told us and I quote "you guys know you can hunt the whole 212 zone as long as you have permission"

[nemo]

Nemo if you do need help pm me and I will try and help you out.... As you are taking my post personal.... Not the case as I am makeing a broader statement to other people that have contacted me on here or through friends....

I wasn't asking for help but I appreciate the offer. I'm ****ed that I was misled by the information package that clearly states that you cannot hunt outside of the boundary shown. My hunt was over Dec 20, unfortunately I found out too late. But as they say "better late than never", I will apply again.
I think we are all on the same page when we say it needs to be fixed!
Best regards,
Nemo

[trouty]

even though the hunt was only within the boundary, there are hundreds within it. Yes it expands your area but it's still a huge area. People need to get their permissions setup months before hand so you can hunt, not hunt down landowners.

[Warrior]

Now that that poor horse has been to death....:snapoutofit::argue2:

So who has gotten their elk....

[nemo]

even though the hunt was only within the boundary, there are hundreds within it. Yes it expands your area but it's still a huge area. People need to get their permissions setup months before hand so you can hunt, not hunt down landowners.

Lets not forget that access was to be shown on the map! Which we needed to wait for or at least thought we needed to wait for!
Tried to get permission back in sept when I received the package. When folks were available they said they didn't or wouldn't deal with until it till november.

Interesting hunt, especially the politics! To say the least. :angry3:

[whitetail Junkie]

My dad passed up 3 big cows today @ 50 yards Broadside!!!
He is holding out for a calf because we already got alot of meat in the freezer...I guess there was elk out everywhere today,most likely because of the cold & snow!

[Daceminnow]

Now that that poor horse has been to death....:snapoutofit::argue2:

So who has gotten their elk....


there was at least a couple killed this morning. -30 = dead elk always.

Dace