How to find an outfitter - questions

[double gun]

I am trying to help my brother find outfitters for a couple hunts not available in Alberta. Never having been on a guided hunt we have a few questions. We have been looking online, and thats fine and dandy - there are quite a few listed. But there are many outfits without websites. So my question is where can I go to find a list of the smaller guys out there who dont have a website or ad in a magazine?

Any help is great.

[KBF]

What species? In seeing gunslingers resume, he knows a few guides out there. Hes probably got some good advice.

[steve]

List the species on here and hunt style he is looking for. X2 on slinger

[double gun]

Grizzly, and mtn caribou. Pretty open to hunt style on both. He is in good shape, but has nothing againt horses or other methods.

[steve]

Possibly be able to get that done in one hunt. Northern BC or Yukon, there's a few very reputable outfits up there that are popular. The yukon outfitting website has a list of all the outfits, not sure if BC has one..

[sheephunter]

Pretty much limited to Yukon with that combo.....might be a few BC guys that could do it but Yukon is likely best bet. With only 19 outfitters there, choices are limited. I'll put in a plug for Deuling Stone Outfitters. They killed a grizz last year that could be the biggest ever taken in the Yukon and they have great mountain caribou.

[double gun]

Thanks guys, if he didnt want a combo and a brown bear instead of moutain grizzly - any suggestions?

[300-510]

Try chris mckinnon ,he lives in calling lake ,as you may already know.Mckinnon and co.outfitters .

[Duk Dog]

These links will give you a few sites to check out, and a good starting point.

http://www.yukonoutfitters.net/

http://www.goabc.org/

[ksteed17]

Pretty much limited to Yukon with that combo.....might be a few BC guys that could do it but Yukon is likely best bet. With only 19 outfitters there, choices are limited. I'll put in a plug for Deuling Stone Outfitters. They killed a grizz last year that could be the biggest ever taken in the Yukon and they have great mountain caribou.

Vanessa's??

[sheephunter]

Vanessa's??

No. He was a good one but they killed a true giant this year.

[echo]

Try chris mckinnon ,he lives in calling lake ,as you may already know.Mckinnon and co.outfitters .

x 2 ,2 trips with chris so far and i'm heading back next year as well !!!:sHa_shakeshout:

[double gun]

Sorry guys, I should have been more clear - looking for a brown bear / coastal grizzly. Yes my brother knows and has spoken to Chris and the bears in his area are not the size he is after.

[gunslinger]

Pretty hard to double up this hunt for sure. Once you hit the extreme west regions the caribou peder out and the grizz get huge. Your better off to do a differetn combo or just hunt for one or the other. If your going to do a brown bear hunt dont mess around and go straight to alaska, you can get some great deals right now from alot of people and your going to basically pay the same or maybe even a little less for a alaskan brown then you are for a interior grizzly.

Not saying you cant connect on a great bear but the yukon is deffintly not the place to go looking for amonster grizzly.

[double gun]

Pretty hard to double up this hunt for sure. Once you hit the extreme west regions the caribou peder out and the grizz get huge. Your better off to do a differetn combo or just hunt for one or the other. If your going to do a brown bear hunt dont mess around and go straight to alaska, you can get some great deals right now from alot of people and your going to basically pay the same or maybe even a little less for a alaskan brown then you are for a interior grizzly.

Not saying you cant connect on a great bear but the yukon is deffintly not the place to go looking for amonster grizzly.

Thank you Sir. That seems to be the way to go, the caribou will get the boot for now, and the brown bear will be the focus.

So back to my original post, is there a list or way to find out about all the little outfitters who dont have a website or run ads in magazines? Especially the Alaskan outfitters?

[Jamie]

Double, now you have to figure out if you want a Boat based or Land Based Hunt.
Is a Monster head a priority?

S.E Alaska is a easier hunt than camping on a brutal beach on the Penensula.

I can really help with S.E. Alaska and I know someone one here did a Hunt on the Penensula.

I would suggest your brother go the SCI Convention. I was comfortable throwing that kind of $$$ around AFTER I met who I was hunting with.

Here is Link's To my Story
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=11149
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=13177
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=17965

Good Luck
Jamie

[TIMWOLF]

Double gun,

If he changes his mind and wants to still do the caribou/grizz hunt, take a look at Ceaser Lake Outfitters. As far as a Brown Bear Dennis Harms on Kodiak.

With the brown bear, concentrate on the Peninsula or Kodiak of Alaska. Russia has some big brown bears, but I dont know enough about it to comment.

I did a lot of research on the hunt before I went in 2009. Gunsligner was correct in saying that there are some great deals out there, but just remember you have to verify that deal is still good value for your money. Deals can be based on legitimate cancellations all the way to starving outfitters trying to fill hunts, so be careful. Cancellation hunts are a great way to save some money on hunts but you have to be available to leave on fairly short notice. I did an Alaska/Yukon moose hunt in 2008 on a cancellation hunt. Saved quite a bit of money, give or take 40% and killed a tremendous moose.

I've been on quite a few guided hunts and I can agree that finding the right outfitter is one of the harder things. There is a lot of money involved in these hunts and for the most part a guy only gets one chance at it when you are talking the tens of thousands of dollars these hunts can cost. Its not always about getting a B&C animal, ask yourself what you envision you hunt to be. Do you want to spike out or stay in a lodge, hunt 1 on 1 or with a friends, on foot or horseback? The animal is the primary objective but the experience is just as important.

My best advice to you would be to get a subscription to the HUNTING REPORT. This service/subscription allows you to view a database of outfitters and select reports that are submitted by hunters who have actually been there, not read about how good or bad it was from a buddy or online. The reports are a great tool as they have a number of fields that detail what the food was like, the equipment, guides etc, so you can get a fairly good idea about the outfit.

The biggest problem with using the internet to find an outfitter is that the references they provide on their website are always they guys who did well. If you were a business owner would you advertise people who had a negative experience with them?? Finding the good things about the outfitter is easy, but finding the negatives is a bit harder. The negatives are more important as they are the things that can quickly turn a dream hunt into a nightmare, or "surprise" you when you are there. Talking to the supplied references are good because it gives you a good overall idea about the place but make sure you ask about the negatives of the hunt. More often than not the guys who did really well are optimistic about the outfitter and leave out the negative details. If you just came back from Alaska with a 10ft+ bear in tote would you be telling someone who is looking at going that you were disappointed because your guide burnt your toast in the morning or you had issues with something else ???

Get a recent copy of the record book and look at the entries in it. I bet if you look under "ursus arctos horibbilus" or brown bear you will see that the majority of the entries come from the peninsula and kodiak. Furthermore you will see names of outfitters, what area, and when the bear was taken. By weighing all these fields together you can get a good idea on some outfitters to start with.

Look at organizatios such as SCI who hand out awards to outfitters that excel in their field. Like most things in life you dont get rewards for doing nothing. If he won outfitter of the year many times in the past he must be doing something right. Go to the SCI show, and talk to some of the outfitters, you can tell alot about a guy there. If hes got a long lineup at his booth, get in line and hope you get to him before he sells out because chances are hes doing something right and people know it.

One thing about separating the good outfitters from the great ones is that the great ones have a waiting list. If they produce great success rates on great animals consistently they will be busy.

Booking a hunt is really all about weighing your options. The stuff I mentioned above is just a small portion of it. Take all factual information and put it together. It doesnt take long to weed out the good guys from the lesser.

Please feel free to PM me if you want.

Tim

[echo]

For a big Brown Bear i would go straight to Kamchatka !!

[gunslinger]

Double gun,

If he changes his mind and wants to still do the caribou/grizz hunt, take a look at Ceaser Lake Outfitters. As far as a Brown Bear Dennis Harms on Kodiak.

With the brown bear, concentrate on the Peninsula or Kodiak of Alaska. Russia has some big brown bears, but I dont know enough about it to comment.

I did a lot of research on the hunt before I went in 2009. Gunsligner was correct in saying that there are some great deals out there, but just remember you have to verify that deal is still good value for your money. Deals can be based on legitimate cancellations all the way to starving outfitters trying to fill hunts, so be careful. Cancellation hunts are a great way to save some money on hunts but you have to be available to leave on fairly short notice. I did an Alaska/Yukon moose hunt in 2008 on a cancellation hunt. Saved quite a bit of money, give or take 40% and killed a tremendous moose.

I've been on quite a few guided hunts and I can agree that finding the right outfitter is one of the harder things. There is a lot of money involved in these hunts and for the most part a guy only gets one chance at it when you are talking the tens of thousands of dollars these hunts can cost. Its not always about getting a B&C animal, ask yourself what you envision you hunt to be. Do you want to spike out or stay in a lodge, hunt 1 on 1 or with a friends, on foot or horseback? The animal is the primary objective but the experience is just as important.

My best advice to you would be to get a subscription to the HUNTING REPORT. This service/subscription allows you to view a database of outfitters and select reports that are submitted by hunters who have actually been there, not read about how good or bad it was from a buddy or online. The reports are a great tool as they have a number of fields that detail what the food was like, the equipment, guides etc, so you can get a fairly good idea about the outfit.

The biggest problem with using the internet to find an outfitter is that the references they provide on their website are always they guys who did well. If you were a business owner would you advertise people who had a negative experience with them?? Finding the good things about the outfitter is easy, but finding the negatives is a bit harder. The negatives are more important as they are the things that can quickly turn a dream hunt into a nightmare, or "surprise" you when you are there. Talking to the supplied references are good because it gives you a good overall idea about the place but make sure you ask about the negatives of the hunt. More often than not the guys who did really well are optimistic about the outfitter and leave out the negative details. If you just came back from Alaska with a 10ft+ bear in tote would you be telling someone who is looking at going that you were disappointed because your guide burnt your toast in the morning or you had issues with something else ???

Get a recent copy of the record book and look at the entries in it. I bet if you look under "ursus arctos horibbilus" or brown bear you will see that the majority of the entries come from the peninsula and kodiak. Furthermore you will see names of outfitters, what area, and when the bear was taken. By weighing all these fields together you can get a good idea on some outfitters to start with.

Look at organizatios such as SCI who hand out awards to outfitters that excel in their field. Like most things in life you dont get rewards for doing nothing. If he won outfitter of the year many times in the past he must be doing something right. Go to the SCI show, and talk to some of the outfitters, you can tell alot about a guy there. If hes got a long lineup at his booth, get in line and hope you get to him before he sells out because chances are hes doing something right and people know it.

One thing about separating the good outfitters from the great ones is that the great ones have a waiting list. If they produce great success rates on great animals consistently they will be busy.

Booking a hunt is really all about weighing your options. The stuff I mentioned above is just a small portion of it. Take all factual information and put it together. It doesnt take long to weed out the good guys from the lesser.

Please feel free to PM me if you want.

Tim

Great post tim and you deffintly have taken your share of animals. If you need a great spot to hunt brown bear i can give you the man i hunted with, This is a true alaskan bushman and one of the best i have ever hunted with. Laine lahndt is his name and he is unit 9a out of kenai alaska. Its a land based hunt hunting the mountians and tidal flats,

[gunslinger]

For a big Brown Bear i would go straight to Kamchatka !!

That is if they would ever open the flights through anchorage, Were waiting for that to happen for the snow sheep in the koryaks this year. That is also why i killed my brown in alaska becasue the logistics are extremely hard in kamatchka, But hopefully not for long.

[double gun]

Wow, thank you guys for all the great help! Tim much of what you point out is very important, and exactly what we were thinking aswell. We will do more research and hopefully figure it all out. Hope nobody minds a few PM's asking for more help... :) I thought the days of a true 10' were gone 15 years ago, but if that sort of monster still is roaming - the dream of a chance just gets the heart pounding.

[TIMWOLF]

You are right there are ten footers still roaming around. When I went on my bear hunt in 2009, it was going to be my one and only Brown Bear hunt as there are too many other critters to chase around this globe. All things considered it boils down to what you are looking for in a bear. A ten footer in the non coastal areas of Alaska is uncommon, they are there but your chances are better on the peninsula/ coastal areas.

Generally speaking the average bear killed in Alaska squares right around the lower end of 8.5'. This is a great bear in itself If you have a chance at anything over 9 you should not hesitate to pull the trigger as you are doing well. Anything 9.5+ is exceptional, and 10+ you need to pass me over the horseshoe you have up your rear.

[Buteo]

I am trying to help my brother find outfitters for a couple hunts not available in Alberta. Never having been on a guided hunt we have a few questions. We have been looking online, and thats fine and dandy - there are quite a few listed. But there are many outfits without websites. So my question is where can I go to find a list of the smaller guys out there who dont have a website or ad in a magazine?

Any help is great.

OK...heres my 2 bits. I guided and outfitted in Alberta for close 12 years. I guided guys from all over Europe and North America - so here's what I'd do if I wanted to go somewhere on a paid hunt.

1- What is the goal of my hunt? - seriously. Do I want a kill a nice animal, or am I really set on killing a P&Y/B&C/SCI critter. It's a pretty important question when you're laying out ...5k, 10k, 15K? In the outfitting game (like most others I guess) you get what you pay for.

The Outfitters who charge a premium price, normally have access to the best game - hence the big price. If an Outfitter tells you that you that he's killed 25 B&C sheep, or 10 p&Y bears in his area since 1982, check it out, it's a matter of public record as long as his hunters registered their kills. If they didn't register their kills, most outfitters still keep a list of references of those who didn't...I sure did. When I was guiding moose in Alberta, I guided to 7 B&C Canadian Moose for Swedish and German hunters, not one of which will ever appear in B&C/P&Y/SCI. Those standards are irrelevant for european hunters.

2- To answer your original question ( which I guess I should have answered first) all states and provinces in North America that require professional outfitters to be licensed list them on their DNR/SRD/FAW websites. Start there and remember that because they are listed doesn't mean they're any good. Buyer beware...references, references, references.

3 - Outfitting is a business. Just cause a guy doesn't advertise anywhere doesn't mean he's no good... Advertising is frikkin expensive...don't care what business you're in, so some small outfitters may feel that they can't afford it - especially if they're normally fully booked via word of mouth (which FYI..is the best advertising :) ). The flip side of that coin is that just cause i guy advertises a lot doesn't mean that he's a no good guy with lots of dough. Some of the best outfitters on the continent in terms of killing trophy game are also media savvy business people! (Jim Shockey? Hello?)

4 - Attend as many hunting events as you can., especially the big ones. Go to SCI in Vegas...hang around the bar and in a loud voice say "sure wish I could find a good Yukon Dall Sheep outfitter ( OK I know how stupid that sounds...pick your moment and make sure that those around you are well lubricated..I speak from experience)

5- A lot of small outfitters in my time relied on booking agents. The internet has pretty much killed a lot of those guys but they still rep a lot smaller outfitters who aren't as savvy or can't afford to advertise on the net. Talent always finds it's way to the top.

6- In booking a hunt, as in hunting any animal, patience is it's own reward.

[Calamity]

Have you checked out Big Nine Outfitters?

I've heard lots of positive reviews from folks that have used them and also from people that have worked for them.

Gorgeous country, too.

http://www.bignine.com/


Good luck whichever outfit you choose. :)