Everyones welcome to an opinion

[Donny Bear]

This piece of trash really got my goat It just proves again that people have no concept of reality. I can't believe this was published by the Echo in Pincher Creek maybe I'm wrong but this is to me a vicious attack on a man who had already endured enough.
http://www.pinchercreekecho.com/Letters/index.html

[sourdough doug]

This article was published not long after Ken had this accident. At the same time, those of us who trap and all others that take game of any kind, must be aware that there are those people out there, who would like nothing better than to have us all in our back yards all year long. The paper in Pincher, is obligated to print this persons story . Should anyone care to object to her statements--well her name is there . Do what you feel is right...

[gopherslayer]

She probably thinks Europe's gun control laws are good also...I think it's easy to immigrate to here from there *hint hint* :scared:

[unclebuck]

I guess ignorance and above all stupidity, know no bounds!!!

[Mike H]

That letter conjures up some mixed feelings for me. I've been a hunter almost all my 27 years of life, and I defend my sport every chance I get. I'm obviously pro animal-harvesting, but trapping kinda gets my goat. I'm no authority on the subject by any means, so please feel free to educate me (gently, if at all possible lol). It seems to me that trapping is a pretty slow and painful death, and for this reson, I've avoided it. Personally, I'd much rather kill an animal quickly with a bullet than force it to endure hours or days of slow painful death......but thats just my uneducated opinion....I'd like to hear some more experienced words on the subject fellas......

[shootermcgavin]

the situation with the trapper is ironic and in my twisted sense of humor kind of funny... but that lady has her head up her ass.

live by the sword die by the sword

[Don Meredith]

Unfortunately, I would be surprised if there wasn't such a response to the tragic situation the trapper found himself in. Many people think like the writer of the letter.

What's important is whether somebody from the trapping community responds to the letter in a manner that is rational, explaining trapping, trappers and how they contribute to the conservation of animals. Also, as you can see from Mike Hunt's post, humane killing needs to be addressed, even to people who should be supporters.

If the letter goes unanswered, then the lady and animal rightists win the battle.

[Donny Bear]

I to think that some forms of trapping are less than paletable for a person that has desire to see animals treated with some level of compassion. I also know that Cattle penned out side the slaughter house waiting there turn are not without fear as the smell of death wafts through the nostriles, life is in fact cruel. My issue is that humans are still in most cases deserving of respect maybe I just got a little over heated reading the bablings of a ______ whatever! Expressing a perspective that humans are deserving of pain and suffering because they take the lives of animals. With that in mind I hope she chokes on the next piece of chicken she eats or on a defencless soy bean. what ever.:tongue2:

[sourdough doug]

Now here is a statement that IMO is almost as- I'll use the word -bad- as the one published in the Pincher paper. For "an avid hunter" of 27 yrs. to make these kind accusations to do with the expiring time of a trapped animal, is not right. Here we are having now to defend ourselves from elements within. Why do you think so much money has been spent on improving almost all traps being used today ??. To make taking of these animals more humane -that's why !!. I suppose in all these years you've hunted, all your game was cold before it hit the ground.. I doubt that, but at the same time, I believe you tried to make the best shot you could, by not stretching the barrel, having the proper load and all the other factors that come to play.. Well, myself, as a proud trapper, do all I can to dispatch my animals with the best equipment available to me. Sorry for the rant- I'd rather not start out a Sunday morn. by having to read about more untruths on trapping

[Donny Bear]

Well said sourdough doug and very true trapping has changed, my son will finish his course soon and his sets will be very humane, as humane as death can be.

[pitw]

I trap with the best equipment that I can for the quick dispatch of an animal.
Conibear traps dispatch an animal very quickly and all body catches are very humane. My legholds are all soft catch {rubber covered jaws for those that don't know what I'm talking about} that I can and have let critters loose from that are no worse for wear. As for the part where the animal has to wait for me at least I'm coming to do my job. Animals that are wounded either by hunters, automobiles or getting caught in fences etc, do not always get the same fate as when caught in a trap as I seam to find a lot of animals dead and not taken care of.

[Rust]

I could be wrong here but don't conibear and such style traps have to kill with in seconds? And all traps/snares have to be checked everyday or every other day?

[Rob Miskosky]

Canada is the world leader in trap testing and development. The Fur Institue of Canada has a facility in Vegreville exclusively for this purpose. The use of the old steel-toothed leghold trap are long gone and today studies are ongoing and traps are constantly being tested for their abilities to kill quickly and painlessly at this facility.

Here is a link if anybody is interested: http://www.fur.ca/index-e/trap_research/index.asp?action=trap_research&page=better_way#Protocol

Resident trappers are required to check their snares every 24-hours. Registered trappers every 48-hours.

There are many regulations a trapper has to follow to ensure a humane kill. In fact, it is the number one concern of the vast majority of trappers.

[Duk Dog]

Good info Rob. I can't recall which one, but wasn't there an article on that research center a while back in the AO magazine?

[pitw]

Rob if I'm reading my regulations right it is foot hold traps that require 24 hour checks by a resident and 48 hour checks by a registered trapper. A snare is a killing device and doesn't fall under these time lines. Please inform me if I'm wrong. Thankyou.

[Mike H]

Now here is a statement that IMO is almost as- I'll use the word -bad- as the one published in the Pincher paper. For "an avid hunter" of 27 yrs. to make these kind accusations to do with the expiring time of a trapped animal, is not right. Here we are having now to defend ourselves from elements within. Why do you think so much money has been spent on improving almost all traps being used today ??. To make taking of these animals more humane -that's why !!. I suppose in all these years you've hunted, all your game was cold before it hit the ground.. I doubt that, but at the same time, I believe you tried to make the best shot you could, by not stretching the barrel, having the proper load and all the other factors that come to play.. Well, myself, as a proud trapper, do all I can to dispatch my animals with the best equipment available to me. Sorry for the rant- I'd rather not start out a Sunday morn. by having to read about more untruths on trapping


Well.... I was making an effort to try and gather some information without giving any wingnuts a chance to fly off the handle and start slinging mud......I guess I didn't try hard enough :lol:

Can you point out these "accusations" you speak of in my post? As far as I can see, I didn't make any, simply asked some questions in as polite and non-confrontational a manner as I could.

Why do you think so much money has been spent on improving almost all traps being used today ??.

I wasn't aware that any money had been spent on R&D at all..... one would think that when I said "I'm no authority on the subject by any means,", and "thats just my uneducated opinion....I'd like to hear some more experienced words on the subject fellas...... I made it clear that I am not famaliar with trapping practices. I guess I need to make it even simpler for you guy, so here you go, I'll type slow for you:

I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT TRAPPING AT ALL. PLEASE EDUCATE ME.

I don't think I can make it any simpler for you, if you are still confused, I might suggest seeking some assistance from someone with a stronger grasp on the english language. Any 3rd or fourth grade student should be able to help you out.....

[Mike H]

Thanks for the link Rob, a good read.

[Rob Miskosky]

Sorry pitw, you are correct. Not sure where my head was at... been a long day. If I'm not mistaken, however, we used to have to check our snares in a given time not that long ago. Can anybody else elaborate?

And Mike Hunt is correct. He was asking a valid question and asked to be educated, not eradicated!!

Rob if I'm reading my regulations right it is foot hold traps that require 24 hour checks by a resident and 48 hour checks by a registered trapper. A snare is a killing device and doesn't fall under these time lines. Please inform me if I'm wrong. Thankyou.

[sourdough doug]

Sorry Mike if I came on to strong. I know that you were asking a question and did not want to be slammed. As I said, you do what is best when it comes to getting your game and at the same time, we as trappers do what we do the best we can. Sometimes the tone of ones comments are hard too hear on the puter . While I'm here-Thx to Rob for for finding a site on the trap testing. Having visited the place in Veg., it's really to bad that more people couldn't se what all happens there.. And Thx to Don as well for mentioning the fact that if no response to the pincher article is given - she wins -. I really hope that the trappers local in the area was able to refute her statement or better yet , that the ATA parent local was able to reply. It would be a sad thing if the torch was dropped... Trappers Ed. should not only be used to improve a trappers knowledge but also that of the public in general -young and old.
My apologies, again to you Mike

[Donny Bear]

I posted this with my nose being out of joint over the ethics or lack of, that a person who would wish ill against a fellow HUMAN BEING has. I never intended for the post to be about trapping. I trapped as a young fellow only used snares and Coni's the odd drowed set nothing suffer at least not for long. To me Trapping is our heritage and is humane take away the rare jerk.
To me the topic is still about the person who is so blind as to think they are morally superior to another person because they value human health and life less than that of an animal.

[gunslinger]

well if you look in the general posting now ken actually had to have his leg amputated so im sending a email to the lady that wrote that right now,
very sad news for sure for one of our trappers.

[catnthehat]

well if you look in the general posting now ken actually had to have his leg amputated so im sending a email to the lady that wrote that right now,
very sad news for sure for one of our trappers.
I don't think you will get anything but an uniformed, "save the animals" type of response, 'slinger.
These people operate on knee jerk style of responses.
I had a friend up here quite a few years ago who rolled his argo in the summer.
he didn't hunt or fish, so I guess she wouls feel sympathy for him however.
This will not stop Ken, however, I do not know him well, but know him well enough to know this is a set back not a "show stopper"
Cat

[Donny Bear]

Sad news for sure to bad:(

Still Cat is most likely right I don't think this deviant __________ will care in the least more likely to celibrate like a terrorist than find compassion. On that I'm out of here I'm just pi$$ed and if you read other letters in the paper we are talking about I doubt they would publish anything without a left bent perspective!:mad2:

[Jim Mitchell]

Hi Gang. It is not often that I reply to the " letters to the editor" however I did in this case. The reply was to large to post , so I guess we will have to watch the letters section in the Echo.
After reading the posts I see we still have controversy even among ourselves. For those with questions , I suggest they take a trapping course or get more information. Check out the ATA website and if anyone needs some information contact me at the office. Ken is going to make it but I think he is losing a foot. Our prayers go out to him for a speedy recovery. Please keep the posts professional as a lot of folks read them who are not trappers.
Jim

[sourdough doug]

Thank you Jim for getting off a letter in regards to Ken's accident. I was hoping that you would "pick up the torch" as you are somewhat more diplomatic than some of us, myself included. Is there a place where we can look at your response..For whatever reason, I am not able to bring up the monthly newsletters from the ATA on my puter.
Have a good one Jim..

[High_N_Wide]

Mike Hunt,

I'm still not sure I understand, did you say you are an authority on trapping??:lol:

It's funny how some guys cruise on here only to attack at the first chance they get.

Pretty funny.

Trev

[Okotokian]

To me Trapping is our heritage and is humane take away the rare jerk.
.

I dunno. It IS ironic. I wish no ill will on the poor trapper. I'm sorry he suffered and hope he will be alright. Don't want to see anyone suffer, man or beast. But trapping isn't part of MY heritage.

[nekred]

otokian Are you Canadian?

this country was explored by fur traders andtrappers and is part of our collective cultural heritage....Since when do we choose our heritage or ancestor's!....Sometime in the past you had to have ancestor's that were trappers!....

[nekred]

Otokian... again trying to split outdoorsmen based on your opinion,

Nothing positive added by you!....yet again!....

An outdoorsman has been in un unfortunate circumstance and someone uses it as a means to sound off against animal harvesting.

Then we have someone who does not recognise once again that because they choose not to harvest animals by that legal methodology that preserves the value of the harvest (pelt, trapping, no holes) has to show their lack of support for a related activity to hunting...

Otokian how do you participate in the outdoors? Do you hunt? Do you fish? I have heard about a lot of what you don't do!....

[Okotokian]

otokian Are you Canadian?

this country was explored by fur traders andtrappers and is part of our collective cultural heritage....Since when do we choose our heritage or ancestor's!....Sometime in the past you had to have ancestor's that were trappers!....

Nope, I can say with authority that none of my ancestors were trappers in Canada. Slavery existed here too, but I don't acknowledge it as my heritage. And NO, I'm not equating trapping with slavery. Just saying it's not part of my heritage or something I value and support.

[nekred]

They maybe never trapped but this country was founded and explored by trappers and is part of our collective heritage...

How about answers to my other questions? Do you harvest animals?

[Okotokian]

Otokian... again trying to split outdoorsmen based on your opinion,

Nothing positive added by you!....yet again!....

An outdoorsman has been in un unfortunate circumstance and someone uses it as a means to sound off against animal harvesting.

Then we have someone who does not recognise once again that because they choose not to harvest animals by that legal methodology that preserves the value of the harvest (pelt, trapping, no holes) has to show their lack of support for a related activity to hunting...

Otokian how do you participate in the outdoors? Do you hunt? Do you fish? I have heard about a lot of what you don't do!....

Oh PULEEZ... again with the the "We must support ALL outdoorsmen". I'm glad to see you fully support Metis hunting rights... yeah right. Only those outdoorsmen you like. Give it up. What a *%&#)$& statement you make. Trying to split sportsman.... sheesh. You should live in a communist country. You seem very comfortable with the thought that everyone must think and speak alike. Guess you will be voting Conservative.

and as for the unfortunate circumstances, read my post before you spout off. I said I wish no ill-will on him, I hate to see anyone hurt, I wish it had never happened. I expresseed none of the malicious sentiment she did. I simply said trapping isn't my heritage. But if that sets your blood boiling... well... nothing much I can do about it.

have a nice day

typed while ****ed off, I'm sure I'll edit in ten minutes.

[Okotokian]

They maybe never trapped but this country was founded and explored by trappers and is part of our collective heritage...

How about answers to my other questions? Do you harvest animals?

what's the big deal about not agreeing with you and promoting trapping? I'm not campaigning against it, just not my cup of tea to have animals unduly suffer for a period of time.

Maybe this thread should be retitled "Everyone's NOT entitled to an opinion"

[nekred]

to have animals unduly suffer for a period of time.

just what facts do you base you uninformed opinion on again!...

[Chuck_Wagon]

Okotokian, it’s your right to have an opinion, it’s also my right to totally ignore it :wave:

[nekred]

How about answers to my other questions? Do you harvest animals?

I asked a direct question.

[TreeGuy]

Oko, easy there big fella! How's this, you're BOTH right. Trapping may not be a part of your family's heritage, but as a Canadian, I recognize it as a part of OUR heritage.

The quest for beaver hides opened up the west long before the CPR. We started out as a colony whos resources were to be exploited, and beavers were a highly valued commodity. The toughness of fur trappers working for the Hudson's Bay Company is how a great portion of this country was initally discovered.

I had a small trapline as a young teenager, and some of the best memories in the outdoors came from trapping. My Dad wasn't really much of an outdoorsman, but he always came to check my line with me on opening morning to help haul my catches home. Some unbelievable memories that can never be taken away.

Oko, if ya ever get a chance to check a line with a trapper on opening day, do it. The excitement is truly contagious, and many misconceptions about trapping will be put to rest. Take care bud!:wave:

Tree

[BUD]

Nope, I can say with authority that none of my ancestors were trappers in Canada. Slavery existed here too, but I don't acknowledge it as my heritage. And NO, I'm not equating trapping with slavery. Just saying it's not part of my heritage or something I value and support.


If you had Great Grandfathers of your family in Canada in the 1800s , then it is part of your heritage , because without it, the pioneers would have froze and starved to death , think about that for awhile

[SNIPER]

Did the natives trap?

[Nomad]

Yes they did, before the white man arrived they used snares, pits and a deadfall trap.

[BUD]

Did the natives trap?

Where do you think they got the leather from to make their clothes and teepees , Tandy leather , haaaaaaaaa.

[SNIPER]

Where do you think they got the leather from to make their clothes and teepees , Tandy leather , haaaaaaaaa.

Ummmm , maybe by shooting them with their bows.
Bud, you have been on this site for quite awhile now (328) posts. Not one of your posts has shown any intelligence whatsoever. You are one of the people that would sound a lot smarter the less you say.

[catnthehat]

Did the natives trap?
The natives trapped with deadfalls, pits, snares and drove buffalo over cliffs, as well as drove deer into wiers.
Once the white man came they were able to trap more effectively...
Cat

[mulecrazy]

They kicked Wilbur off the forum for using more than one screen name. me thinks bud is another one of his handles. Possible shootermcgavin. I am thinking it is someone who gets a kick out of screwing with people and stirring the pot. Any thoughts on this mods?

[Jim Mitchell]

Doug - I suggest you check the pincher creek echo next week to see if they printed it. If you want it now let me know and I will fire it off to you. You mentioned that you can't open my newsletters? It is a word document. Send me a mail and I will see if I can do it better. The word part should come through but some of the other attachments may not due to your firewalls.
Jim

[SNIPER]

The natives trapped with deadfalls, pits, snares and drove buffalo over cliffs, as well as drove deer into wiers.
Once the white man came they were able to trap more effectively...
Cat


Thanks cat, I guess I should have worded my question differently. Did they participate in the fur trade industry, just like the "white" man did?

[sheephunter]

Yes they most definitely sold furs to the Northwest Company and Hudson's Bay Company from fur they trapped. I'm guessing they were a much larger supplier of fur than the whiteman. Many are still very active in trapping today.

[mud slug]

hi guys just wondering if theres a place around edmonton that a guy could go and learn something about trapping.i no very little on the subject and would be interesting to learn more.

[thumper]

Regarding natives trapping - that's another benefit of trapping that I haven't seen on this thread;
By trapping on the land, natives can prove that large areas of land are necessary for their livelihood - and thus protect the land from heavy handed resource development. When fur prices are good, more natives are out on the land, often with their family, instilling a cultural pride and teaching their youngsters about a healthier, and more traditional lifestyle than hanging out at the mall.

I watched an interview some time ago with a Gwitch'n woman who expressed this very well - how happy she was that her husband was able to take his youngest sons out in the bush with him trapping. Unfortunately, their eldest son was lost to drugs and alcohol as he never got to experience the 'bush' with his Dad when fur prices were low. When Pamela Anderson & Bridgit Bardot are successful in driving down the demand (and prices) of fur, they are damaging this intergenerational link.

Whenever I have the chance, I always compliment a woman in a fur coat and make a fuss about the beauty and warmth of the fur, and tell her that she should be proud to wear it. It's a totally natural, renewable product that often supports our First Nations people (and others close to the land), protects a lot of wildlife habitat, and celebrates our Canadian heritage.

That's one thing I like about our nation's capital in the winter - you sure see a lot of Ottawatonians wearing beautiful fur. To bad you don't see more of it in Alberta.

So gents - be patriotic and run out and get your lady a real nice winter fur coat!

[Okotokian]

I asked a direct question.

Sorry man. got a message from Rob M saying I insulted you and had better watch myself. not sure how I insulted you, but I guess I did. You of course did not insult me. Just another day in the AO forum. grrrrrrrr LOL

[sheephunter]

hi guys just wondering if theres a place around edmonton that a guy could go and learn something about trapping.i no very little on the subject and would be interesting to learn more.

Contact the Alberta Trapper's Association.

[catnthehat]

hi guys just wondering if theres a place around edmonton that a guy could go and learn something about trapping.i no very little on the subject and would be interesting to learn more.
Take a trip t0 Westlock and visit the Alberta trappers Association there.
You can find a wealth of experiance in that little office, an some very nice stuff for sale as well.
I imagine Holford Hodes will have some books also.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Yes they most definitely sold furs to the Northwest Company and Hudson's Bay Company from fur they trapped. I'm guessing they were a much larger supplier of fur than the whiteman. Many are still very active in trapping today.

Actually when you look at it, there were very few whote man actually trapping during the fur trade up here, more "free trappers" down in the western states, and the "mountain man " era only lasted about 10 years , anyway.
The Hudson's bay company had a stranglhold on the fur trade, with the N'West company slowly trying to gain ground, and almost all of the actuall trapping was done by natives.Whites were not allowed to trap and trade without the HBC's consent.
Once the almalgamted ( can't remember the exect date) it became a bit different.
Cat