View Full Version : Sonar for Ice Fishing: Converting my summer gear
BeeGuy
01-31-2012, 01:56 AM
So, I have a Humminbird 150 portable unit and it works great on my canoe.
I don't want to buy a flasher for ice fishing and am going to use my portable unit instead. I'm sure some of you do something similar, so, please provide some tips and pit-falls for the newbie.
I'm concerned about the temperatures affecting the battery and screen, as well as how to rig up the transducer.
I've heard some guys use those hand warmers to keep the unit warm(er)?
I've also heard that you can use it to side scan as well?
Post some pics of how you rig it up if you can.
Also, are there any issues with interpreting the read out?
aulrich
01-31-2012, 07:57 AM
I used my portable as is and it was OK, hummingbird has an replacement ice transducer, I know it will work for the 300 series, I have a boat mounted 343 that I wanted to convert to ice and portable use. But here is the kicker the transducer is 90$ and an showdown troller is 200.
The regular transducer will still work you just need to figure out a haning system.
calgarygringo
01-31-2012, 09:17 AM
I did my eagle with the ice transducer and works great. You have to remember that the advantage of a flasher is you see what is happening in real time. Unless you have that feature built in like some eagle and lowrance that I am familiar with it will just show depth and after they have gone by you will know about it. For mine it was 79 bucks for the transducer and abot $30 for the small battery. Have used it all winter mostly inside the tent but outside for finding depth etc. I always travel with it in the cab to start warm so have never experienced any cold issues so far.
BeeGuy
01-31-2012, 09:26 AM
Awesome guys, thanks
fish gunner
01-31-2012, 09:35 AM
I have a humming bird 535 it is a portable unit,however the transducer mount does not work on the ice.I magiverd a 3' length of stainless wire to hang and aim the transducer works great.the only time batt has had an issue is -20 or below.at which the hand warmer cure works good as long as it is kept out of the wind.if you run your scroll speed at high your soundings will be near real time.
huntsfurfish
01-31-2012, 06:42 PM
Fishfinders (scrolling LCD) will be the wave of the future on the ice(finally).:) Flashers just old technology.:):evilgrin:
Fishfinders (scrolling LCD) will be the wave of the future on the ice(finally).:) Flashers just old technology.:):evilgrin:
X2, been running one for 20 years.
Mudslide
01-31-2012, 07:23 PM
Don't bother with the ice transducer. Just use a zip tie to get your existing transducer to hang straight down. Turn the ping speed and the scroll speed to max. Then turn the sensitivity up just enough so that you can see your jig below the ice. I'll show you next time we're out. Got my new Marcum LX-7 yesterday, it will blow your mind, but really it's not much different than your HB. Any electronics are way, way, better than none.
OL_JR
01-31-2012, 07:34 PM
I have the Humminbird 150 also and use it a lot for finding depth before punching a hole and seeing if fish are coming into the lure. I haven't rigged a hanging system yet, usually just hang it over the edge and with a bit of farting around it will point straight down. A hanging system would be a lot better though. I haven't used it a lot when it's really cold but the screen does become sluggish.
I'd love to get a flasher but the fishfinder will do for now. Fish show up really good and I've hooked a couple before that bit real light that I probably wouldn't have if I didn't know they were down there. Also lets you know when to switch baits when you're seeing a bunch and they won't bite.
BeeGuy
01-31-2012, 08:34 PM
Took it out to ghost for a test run today.
No surprise, it marked the bottom and my jig really well, but had a very difficult time marking any fish.:thinking-006:
I'm making a t-bar with a small square of plexi-glass on the bottom so that I can stick the suction cup directly to it. Should enable full side-scan ability as well.
OL_JR
01-31-2012, 09:20 PM
Took it out to ghost for a test run today.
No surprise, it marked the bottom and my jig really well, but had a very difficult time marking any fish.:thinking-006:
I'm making a t-bar with a small square of plexi-glass on the bottom so that I can stick the suction cup directly to it. Should enable full side-scan ability as well.
Maybe there weren't any fish around? If you aren't bumping the transducer once you've figured out what you're jig and bottom is any irregularities will be fish. I find they usually come up looking like a log.
By side scan do you mean pointing the tranducer sideways? If our fishfinders are the same they only point a single 20 degree cone.
BeeGuy
01-31-2012, 11:53 PM
Maybe there weren't any fish around? If you aren't bumping the transducer once you've figured out what you're jig and bottom is any irregularities will be fish. I find they usually come up looking like a log.
By side scan do you mean pointing the tranducer sideways? If our fishfinders are the same they only point a single 20 degree cone.
I was joking about the fish. There definitely wasn't any fish around.
And yes, I mean pointing the sonar to the side. I haven't tried it yet but will tomorrow evening.
BeeGuy
01-31-2012, 11:56 PM
This is my rig for the transducer, with a piece of plexi-glass at the bottom for the suction cup.
Were gonna crucify some fish with this.
Easywean
02-01-2012, 05:29 PM
I have a Humminbird 160 portable. All i did was detach the suction cup assembly, then I used electrical tape to tape the cord to the transducer to position the transducer to hang properly to get a vertical reading. It works great.
sheepstalker
02-01-2012, 06:13 PM
I have a Humminbird 160 portable. All i did was detach the suction cup assembly, then I used electrical tape to tape the cord to the transducer to position the transducer to hang properly to get a vertical reading. It works great.
x2
BeeGuy
02-01-2012, 07:12 PM
Had it out tonight. Works great, but forgot my hanging rig, so I couldn't try out any side scanning.
Any of you guys try to use your 160 to side scan?
BeeGuy
02-01-2012, 07:50 PM
Anyone one ever heard of sonar that has a memory?
I was out on the ice and about 30' from the unit and it was marking fish, but I was jigging another hole and didnt get to see them, however if the unit had a memory, I could have scrolled back and seen what went by, where, and with a time-stamp, when.
Given the simplicity of the software I'm surprised these units dont have a simple memory function.
fish farmer
02-01-2012, 08:00 PM
Anyone one ever heard of sonar that has a memory?
I was out on the ice and about 30' from the unit and it was marking fish, but I was jigging another hole and didnt get to see them, however if the unit had a memory, I could have scrolled back and seen what went by, where, and with a time-stamp, when.
Given the simplicity of the software I'm surprised these units dont have a simple memory function.
How do you know it was marking fish if you were fishing away from it? Why would you go through the process of getting it ice ready then put it in a hole and not use it/fish in a different hole?
BeeGuy
02-01-2012, 11:52 PM
How do you know it was marking fish if you were fishing away from it? Why would you go through the process of getting it ice ready then put it in a hole and not use it/fish in a different hole?
I was fishing that hole for a while and marking fish, but for a while moved to a different hole close by.
We were in fairly shallow water, in a narrow bay, so I didnt need to know they were under my feet, I only needed to know they were in the bay, by hearing the fish alarm.
Why would you go through the process of writing a critical post which has absolutely no point and hitting submit reply??
Why dont you come fishing with us and watch the sonar for me and tell me when fish are coming? And I'll tell you when I have one on?
BeeGuy
02-01-2012, 11:53 PM
geez louise
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 12:06 AM
I was fishing that hole for a while and marking fish, but for a while moved to a different hole close by.
We were in fairly shallow water, in a narrow bay, so I didnt need to know they were under my feet, I only needed to know they were in the bay, by hearing the fish alarm.
Why would you go through the process of writing a critical post which has absolutely no point and hitting submit reply??
Why dont you come fishing with us and watch the sonar for me and tell me when fish are coming? And I'll tell you when I have one on?
if you didn't need to know they were under your feet just needed to know they were there then why do you need a sonar with a memory to tell you what they were and a time stamp ...........geeeeeeze........try a paper graft.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 12:12 AM
Doing a little trolling this evening eh big guy?
I guess the potential value of having such a feature has gone completely over your head.
Everyone loves their trail cam right?
A sonar with memory is essentially a trail cam for fish.
Great idea, no?
So while your in your hut doing your thing. Your sonar can be in another spot telling you what, where, when, and why.
(C)
Patent Pending.
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 12:18 AM
Doing a little trolling this evening eh big guy?
I guess the potential value of having such a feature has gone completely over your head.
Everyone loves their trail cam right?
A sonar with memory is essentially a trail cam for fish.
Great idea, no?
So while your in your hut doing your thing. Your sonar can be in another spot telling you what, where, when, and why.
(C)
Patent Pending.
no I don't troll unless i'm in my boat
and i hate to tell you but by the time you check the memory the fish has swam on......... but if you must as I said try a PAPER CHART GRAFT
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 12:43 AM
Ya, the whole point is that you can record data and check it later.
Fish one location, and record data at another.
Why use paper? We live in the digital era.
Never seen a Paper Chart Graft. Do you mean graph?
Just by the sounds of it, it must be fairly bulky.
huntsfurfish
02-02-2012, 05:16 AM
If your fishfinder has an SD card slot or 2 you can record.:)
Teamprotz
02-02-2012, 05:34 AM
Ya, the whole point is that you can record data and check it later.
Fish one location, and record data at another.
Why use paper? We live in the digital era.
Never seen a Paper Chart Graft. Do you mean graph?
Just by the sounds of it, it must be fairly bulky.
Graft - in the process of graphing , past tense -grafted ? :thinking-006:
fish farmer
02-02-2012, 08:40 AM
So if the fish alarm goes off do you quickly run back and drop your line in that hole? I dont see the point of recording information from one hole while fishing another, seems pointless to me to go through all the work of converting your sonar to use on the ice and then dont even use it for what it was meant to do.
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 08:55 AM
Doing a little trolling this evening eh big guy?
I guess the potential value of having such a feature has gone completely over your head.
Everyone loves their trail cam right?
A sonar with memory is essentially a trail cam for fish.
Great idea, no?
So while your in your hut doing your thing. Your sonar can be in another spot telling you what, where, when, and why.
(C)
Patent Pending.
No it didn't go over my head I just think it makes more sense to know what the fish are doing where i'm fishing then what there doing some place else.
But thats just me. If it helps you can go on you tube and see what fish are doing all over the world.................:)
Great idea, no AHHH I see you answered your ow question
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 05:42 PM
So if the fish alarm goes off do you quickly run back and drop your line in that hole? I dont see the point of recording information from one hole while fishing another, seems pointless to me to go through all the work of converting your sonar to use on the ice and then dont even use it for what it was meant to do.
head shake
face palm
sigh
fish farmer
02-02-2012, 05:55 PM
head shake
face palm
sigh
Head scratch
Shoulder shrug
Are bees like those little stupid lapdogs?
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Look at the top of the thread and you'll see everyone posting great info in a positive manner.
Look at the bottom of the thread and you'll see a couple of trolls that have nothing useful to contribute.
Why not post something useful?
huntsfurfish
02-02-2012, 06:09 PM
Lowrance and Humminbird have sonars that will record to SD cards. That function has been available for some time(my older LMS 332 and 337's as well as my HDS units). So yes, the capability is there. You can return home and go over what you saw or what you missed.:)
fish gunner
02-02-2012, 06:14 PM
I think every body missing the point .what would be wrong with going over the day or even an hour of my sounding. sounds like great idea,to be able to sit with a chart and fill in bottom density.go over fish missed.lots of information on a sounder if you could replay screens.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Lowrance and Humminbird have sonars that will record to SD cards. That function has been available for some time(my older LMS 332 and 337's as well as my HDS units). So yes, the capability is there. You can return home and go over what you saw or what you missed.:)
Awesome, when this unit finally dies I'll have to look for one of those!
fish farmer
02-02-2012, 06:21 PM
Look at the top of the thread and you'll see everyone posting great info in a positive manner.
Look at the bottom of the thread and you'll see a couple of trolls that have nothing useful to contribute.
Why not post something useful?
My first questions were legit, you were the one that took them the wrong direction, I just followed your leed. Good luck out there, maybe someday I will be lucky enough to hear your sonar beeping all day, or not beeping....
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 07:21 PM
OK, so someone posted that the beam angle is 20 degrees on these HB units.
That got me thinking. How wide is the coverage at different depths?
In really shallow water, the beam will be very narrow, but in deep water it will be much larger.
So here it is, beam width (diameter) at increasing depth.
10'...............3.6'
20'................7.2'
30'...............10.8'
40'...............14.4'
50'...............18.0'
60'...............21.6'
70'...............25.2'
80'...............28.8'
90'...............32.4'
100'.............36.0'
The limitations of such a narrow angle are pretty obvious.
fish gunner
02-02-2012, 07:44 PM
OK, so someone posted that the beam angle is 20 degrees on these HB units.
That got me thinking. How wide is the coverage at different depths?
In really shallow water, the beam will be very narrow, but in deep water it will be much larger.
So here it is, beam width (diameter) at increasing depth.
10'...............3.6'
20'................7.2'
30'...............10.8'
40'...............14.4'
50'...............18.0'
60'...............21.6'
70'...............25.2'
80'...............28.8'
90'...............32.4'
100'.............36.0'
The limitations of such a narrow angle are pretty obvious.
I think in the book for my humming bird it says 1/3 depth at 20°.it also runs 60°with fish id turned on.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 07:50 PM
I think in the book for my humming bird it says 1/3 depth at 20°.it also runs 60°with fish id turned on.
1/3 is close to accurate.
Which unit are you running??
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 07:58 PM
I'm beginning to agree with some of the posters on here that guys on here are getting lazy. Instead of going on the computer and SEARCHING to see if there is a product out there that will do what they want they just got on the computer and POST what they would like a product to do and then hope someone will check it out for them ......... and then complain when someone gives them an answer they don't like....... well search it yourself.... paper chart graphs have been around for years.........:thinking-006:
fish gunner
02-02-2012, 07:58 PM
1/3 is close to accurate.
Which unit are you running??
565 portable.has a vertical flasher bar that gives real time target signal. in fish id mode it gives different colors showing which cone the sounding came from
calgarygringo
02-02-2012, 08:01 PM
Here is the chart I posted a while back. Remember this is for a 20 degree transducer. I have it in Excel and PDF if anyone wants a copy just pm me and I will email one to you.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/calgarygringo/Fishing/beamangle.jpg
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 08:09 PM
Thanks CG.
You can see the values are about the same as I posted, only the chart has been rounded to integer values.
At 20degrees the width to depth ratio is 0.36.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 08:12 PM
TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL...
loud and clear
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 08:18 PM
I'm beginning to agree with some of the posters on here that guys on here are getting lazy. Instead of going on the computer and SEARCHING to see if there is a product out there that will do what they want they just got on the computer and POST what they would like a product to do and then hope someone will check it out for them ......... and then complain when someone gives them an answer they don't like....... well search it yourself.... paper chart graphs have been around for years.........:thinking-006:
Apparently your computer was not receiving properly so to be helpfull I reposted it for you hope it works this time...Good Luck
Daceminnow
02-02-2012, 08:20 PM
read this. there's a little more than just what area your cone will cover at varies depths. a 20 degree ducer is not an optimum deeper water ducer.
http://vexilar.com/pages/support/support_tips/article_006.php
Dace
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 10:38 PM
TROLLOLOLOLOL
Yes, thanks, I got it the first few times.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 10:42 PM
read this. there's a little more than just what area your cone will cover at varies depths. a 20 degree ducer is not an optimum deeper water ducer.
http://vexilar.com/pages/support/support_tips/article_006.php
Dace
Thanks Dace, some great info there.
I could see how the dead zone could be an issue when the transducer is stationary, but in a boat when you are trolling or drifting, as you move down or across a drop off you should be able to pick things up because the dead zone is decreasing.
Good to know!
Hopefully with the rig I made for the ducer, if I rock it back and forth I should be able to mitigate the effects of setting up on top of a drop off.
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 11:17 PM
Yes, thanks, I got it the first few times.
no I don't think you did but no worries some people just never quite understand .......:)
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 11:18 PM
TROLLOLOLOL
you don't know when to stop eh?
Hint: It was several posts ago.
Go away.
fish gunner
02-02-2012, 11:39 PM
you don't know when to stop eh?
Hint: It was several posts ago.
Go away.
x2 so we can go back to discussions on sounders.:sHa_shakeshout:
horsetrader
02-02-2012, 11:39 PM
Thanks Dace, some great info there.
I could see how the dead zone could be an issue when the transducer is stationary, but in a boat when you are trolling or drifting, as you move down or across a drop off you should be able to pick things up because the dead zone is decreasing.
Good to know!
Hopefully with the rig I made for the ducer, if I rock it back and forth I should be able to mitigate the effects of setting up on top of a drop off.
rocking your transducer back and forth will give inaccurate rebounds ......
fish gunner
02-02-2012, 11:55 PM
it will give an inaccurate bottom reading, but you can still mark fish ,I use a wire rig to be able to move my transducer.quite often I move my transducer aim to search for fish when ice fishing.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 11:56 PM
I guess to clarify what I meant was,
when the transducer is in a fixed location, I could change it's angle, rather than just being perpendicular to the bottom.
Hope to get some sort of results using it sideways to side scan as well. We'll see how well this works this weekend.
BeeGuy
02-02-2012, 11:58 PM
it will give an inaccurate bottom reading, but you can still mark fish ,I use a wire rig to be able to move my transducer.quite often I move my transducer aim to search for fish when ice fishing.
Sweet, ya, I'm hoping it will pick up fish when pointed sideways etc.
On my hanging rig I put a piece of plexi-glass at the bottom so I can stick the suction cup/transducer on at any angle.
Can't see why it wouldn't work.
fish gunner
02-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Sweet, ya, I'm hoping it will pick up fish when pointed sideways etc.
On my hanging rig I put a piece of plexi-glass at the bottom so I can stick the suction cup/transducer on at any angle.
Can't see why it wouldn't work.
im not sure my transducer works 90°from bottom,it seems to get the blind spot with the 60°cone.however I can double my cone on bottom.from what we see on camera it works fairly well.we now know how to tell the actual direction of the cone relative to the transducer.
BeeGuy
02-03-2012, 12:13 AM
I think what I'll do is get my buddy to drop a huge bait down a hole a ways away and just adjust the angle of the transducer on the rig until I can mark it.
A 1lb herring bait should work well.
fish gunner
02-03-2012, 12:31 AM
I think what I'll do is get my buddy to drop a huge bait down a hole a ways away and just adjust the angle of the transducer on the rig until I can mark it.
A 1lb herring bait should work well.
yep. we used a big spoon to do our learning. we made our biggest strides actually looking with the camera to see what they both "see"at the same time.works great on moving schools of perch.with practice you can "see"the direction they are moving in.
horsetrader
02-03-2012, 08:57 AM
x2 so we can go back to discussions on sounders.:sHa_shakeshout:
When you angle the transducer you will just increase the dead area so now you can go back to your discussion on sounders. I'm sure you will compliment each other kind of like the blind leading the blind ...... good luck
fish gunner
02-03-2012, 09:33 AM
When you angle the transducer you will just increase the dead area so now you can go back to your discussion on sounders. I'm sure you will compliment each other kind of like the blind leading the blind ...... good luck
I think I covered the increased dead zone,I encounter if I swing my transducer too far from bottom.however I feel that maybe due to the 60°cone my sounder uses in conjunction to the 20° cone.BG uses a sonder with a 20°cone only so we presume he may have better luck.I made a wire harness for the ability to move my transducer. this along with camera work has shown it works quite well.thank you for your input.
horsetrader
02-03-2012, 10:22 AM
I think I covered the increased dead zone,I encounter if I swing my transducer too far from bottom.however I feel that maybe due to the 60°cone my sounder uses in conjunction to the 20° cone.BG uses a sonder with a 20°cone only so we presume he may have better luck.I made a wire harness for the ability to move my transducer. this along with camera work has shown it works quite well.thank you for your input.
Don't forget about the angle of incident and angle of reflection if a sonar is off more then 9 deg. then rebound will not return to transducer and this is even greater affected on a smaller cone
fish gunner
02-03-2012, 10:54 AM
Don't forget about the angle of incident and angle of reflection if a sonar is off more then 9 deg. then rebound will not return to transducer and this is even greater affected on a smaller cone
I believe this is what actually causes the dead zone.however my training tells me that there is a element of curviture as the signal "wraps"around an object. in theory the signal is returned in 180°off the reflected surface decreasing as the angle incidence increases until the signal no longer returns to source.
horsetrader
02-03-2012, 07:15 PM
I believe this is what actually causes the dead zone.however my training tells me that there is a element of curviture as the signal "wraps"around an object. in theory the signal is returned in 180°off the reflected surface decreasing as the angle incidence increases until the signal no longer returns to source.
actually the dead zone on a depth finder is because of the first contact with bottom is registered anything father is dead zone angling the transducer only increases the dead zone it dose not cause it. the angle of incidence is always equal to the angle of reflection in a down looking sonar. it is the main reason for the introduction of side imaging.
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