Halibut fyi

[thunderheart]

FYI good people ....any hali over 60 lbs is female and by taking a big fish one ends the production of literally million of eggs and a posibility of stocks increasing.. consider that people when you catch a monster / barn door. Personally i think halibut is a fantastic game fish and a worthy apponent as you fight to get these beauts to the surface. EVERYONE should experience this at least once in a lifetime....
Yup i have a commercial fishing background, so i tend to lean towards the commercial fishermans side BUY I think that the commercial sport operators should without a doubt be able to harvest these fantastic flatties ... mmmm nothing better than halibut... :sHa_shakeshout:.. but just wanted you all to know that hali's are sustainable for all pleasure/ commercial sport and commercial interests if we think about these over 60 lb females ... just thoughts for you all to consider .. besides a monster being female, the taste simply IS NOT the same as a smaller fish. Dont let anyone tell you differant
TIGHT LINES people enjoy:sHa_shakeshout:

[pickrel pat]

wow. so the bigger fish are the females? thats news. females lay eggs? i kinda figured that. so.... less females to lay eggs = less little ones for the future? who woulda thought! very imformative thread.... lol.

[pickrel pat]

sarcasm...... i agree.

[browning375]

Question then?

Why don't the comercial fisherman realease Halibut over 60lbs? Personally, for me i only get to keep 2 halibut per trip to BC, so i make sure they are big ones!

[thunderheart]

Question then?

Why don't the comercial fisherman realease Halibut over 60lbs? Personally, for me i only get to keep 2 halibut per trip to BC, so i make sure they are big ones!

hello browning..

never said dont keep them lol.. merely FYI lots of folks here on the coast dont know the 60 lb thing. I only learned it a few yrs ago. merely information friend .. thats all

have a great day

[WillyOneStyle]

I read an article a few years back that stated the biggest pike were females too.
Are the (full grown) females in all fish species bigger than the males?

[Jwood 456]

Are the (full grown) females in all fish species bigger than the males?

Not always, I've read up that with all of the pacific salmon species besides the Chinooks, the males are bigger and I've also heard that too that with Mahi Mahi, the males are usually bigger.

[Mickey]

I agree with the TS.

While it is nice to reel in the barndoor after a 30 minute fight, the meat is no where near as good as the smaller "chickens" as they call them.

Taking the big fish in any species for anything other than a mount is selfish IMO.

You can catch a 30LB Hali that has great amounts of meat on it and also tastes great. I have seen Halis on the dock over 200LBS complete waste of a huge breeder IMO. Big fish Breed big fish.

[SammyIam]

What is the mortality rate for large released hali's?

[pickrel pat]

What is the mortality rate for large released hali's?

even if its 98% mortality rate, its still better than unreleased percentage....

[Jwood 456]

I agree with the TS.

While it is nice to reel in the barndoor after a 30 minute fight, the meat is no where near as good as the smaller "chickens" as they call them.

Taking the big fish in any species for anything other than a mount is selfish IMO.

You can catch a 30LB Hali that has great amounts of meat on it and also tastes great. I have seen Halis on the dock over 200LBS complete waste of a huge breeder IMO. Big fish Breed big fish.

Not only would keeping the large ones reduce the amount of large breeders, but it would also be logical that the there would be a reduced number of the large fish to add to the gene pool, hence, fish on average getting smaller in the future.

I plan to fish the coast this summer for Halis, but won't bring a harpoon along, because any fish that is big enough for the need to be using a harpoon then that would mean that they are too big to keep anyways. IMHO.

[bardfromedson]

even if its 98% mortality rate, its still better than unreleased percentage....

no it isn't since you will be releasing that one and keeping a smaller fish. then your killing 2....what a dumb thread...this just in the sky is blue, water is wet, not shooting big bucks means there is still a big buck alive...
i think its a good idea to release big ones if you see fit. if your going to use all the meat and have never landed a hog then don't feel guilty about keeping it.

[Mark]

I agree we should release all the large females, it just make sense since they are the most effective breeders and the meat is course and full of worms. Killing the major breeders is just like killing the goose that lays the golden egg. I have no problem with anyone keeper their two hailbuts, and a couple of 35 or 40lbers will provides you will over 50lbs of halibut zero waste fillets. More than enough fish for anyone. I thought it was the 'experience' that was suppose to be the most rewarding, and the great eating fish was just lucky by-product. Possession limits for hailbut are small enough as they are, I'd hate do anything that might potentially harm the resourse and reduce the limits.

Just my 2cents....

[Sea Hawk]

I agree that we should preserve the recource but there are other ways to do it.If i make one or two trips a year out to the coast to fish for halibut i will take home my limit. I think a better idea to presreve the halibut would be to limit the number anyone could have in a year just like the regs for chinook.

[Mark]

I agree that we should preserve the recource but there are other ways to do it.If i make one or two trips a year out to the coast to fish for halibut i will take home my limit. I think a better idea to presreve the halibut would be to limit the number anyone could have in a year just like the regs for chinook.


I agree, take home your limit, but limit the size you take home.

[thunderheart]

well said guys .. this dumb thread was simply an info thread ..lol thanks for you input

[Jamie]

We reward our guests for releasing large salmon and large Hali's.
50# salmon = free trip
100 # Hali = free trip

This year we are going to do something for 40-50 pound salmon and 80-100 pound Hali's.
I can't and won't tell people to release the big ones, but we do reward those that do.
Jamie

[thumper]

On our trip, the hali brought to the dock that's closest to 55 pounds - without going over 55 pounds - wins a free return trip to the lodge.

[Tofinofish]

I've been monitoring this thread without chiming in, and appreciate the various approaches and reasoning that you guys have shared.
I will be in a meeting this weekend to rationalize our next approach to DFO to hopefully help extend the 2012 season if we can become "creative" beyond the 1 day / 2 Possesion in place, to stretch the poundage further into the season. We are planning and groundtruthing our options to present, that are not a lot unlike some of the comments here.
I will keep you posted on the other Halibut regs thread.

Jay

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I've been monitoring this thread without chiming in, and appreciate the various approaches and reasoning that you guys have shared. Jay

I have aswell .

All thought the idea of throwing back these 60 liber + halibut .All though in previous I've shared the same thought with folks above , but after educating myself . These females have been spawning for awhile . Not to mention a halibut (example 200 ) pounder is going to of spawned many times . All though I do not know the cycle of halibut , do they spawn every year .

What I'm saying is keep the big fish , they are going to have spawned several time creating good genetics for there fry . That would make more since keeping that 60 pounder then it would the 15-20 pounder . But that would make to much sense . Can't forget the 15-20 pounders are so much better eating.

I have never meet a bad halibut steak and when we use to fish the coast we would keep 1 or 2 large ones compared to seeing guys leaving with 4,5,6 halibut , Granted that was years ago.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I have never caught a Halibut and until very recently, did not know that the meat is wormy and does not taste very good when it comes off a big fish.

I wonder how many people catch and keep the "Barn Doors" and are later disappointed with the quality of the meat.

If someone offered me a free trip with the release of a 50 lb. Chinook or a 100 lb. Halibut, there is going to be a very happy fish swimming away from the boat.

[Tofinofish]

I have never caught a Halibut and until very recently, did not know that the meat is wormy and does not taste very good when it comes off a big fish.

I wonder how many people catch and keep the "Barn Doors" and are later disappointed with the quality of the meat.

If someone offered me a free trip with the release of a 50 lb. Chinook or a 100 lb. Halibut, there is going to be a very happy fish swimming away from the boat.

As a guest angler, I would jump on the chance to release a big fish for a return trip. On the business model for a Lodge, it is a pretty tough call if you encounter these fish on a regular basis. We don't see all too many over 100 lbs compared to some areas, and I would have had to promo 3 free trips in June alone last season, just from the boat I guided.
Great concept for promoting sustainability but don't know how long a business will last with good fishing in the area. JMO

[Jamie]

Some times the conservation end of things is just as important (if not more so) than the financial end of things.
That's just one of the ways we designed Great Pacific Salmon Lodge.

Sure it's a bit of a hit, but worth every penny to try and do what we can to help.
We care about our resources and want the fantastic fishing our guests enjoy to continue forever.

Jamie

[MissFlyfishing]

I have aswell .

All thought the idea of throwing back these 60 liber + halibut .All though in previous I've shared the same thought with folks above , but after educating myself . These females have been spawning for awhile . Not to mention a halibut (example 200 ) pounder is going to of spawned many times . All though I do not know the cycle of halibut , do they spawn every year .

What I'm saying is keep the big fish , they are going to have spawned several time creating good genetics for there fry . That would make more since keeping that 60 pounder then it would the 15-20 pounder . But that would make to much sense . Can't forget the 15-20 pounders are so much better eating.

I have never meet a bad halibut steak and when we use to fish the coast we would keep 1 or 2 large ones compared to seeing guys leaving with 4,5,6 halibut , Granted that was years ago.


I have read this post about 4 times now, and still cant quite understand what you are trying to say except "keep the big ones because they have already spawned enough times". Is this your thinking??? If so, I strongly disagree. The big Halibut are your most prolific breeders, no matter how many times they have spawned. Granted, there will come a time when they no longer spawn but until that time they will be laying up to 5x the eggs of a small female. I don't have a fisheries degree, but I think more eggs=more fish....
My 2 cents.

[Bound2Fish]

My last trip out we caught a fair amount of Hali's. We released 2 over 100# and kept 2 between 70-100#. And they both tasted delicious, but when the limit is only 2 people are going to be inclined to keep the biggest ones they can. I just wont keep anything over 100#

[Tofinofish]

Some times the conservation end of things is just as important (if not more so) than the financial end of things.
That's just one of the ways we designed Great Pacific Salmon Lodge.

Sure it's a bit of a hit, but worth every penny to try and do what we can to help.
We care about our resources and want the fantastic fishing our guests enjoy to continue forever.

Jamie


Sorry but I don't quite understand your message Jamie.

Are you saying that regardless of what happens to your business, you are promoting Conservation? That is admirable, but may have been better to establish GPSL as a non-profit or .org?
I believe I told you about the Catch and Release Derby we have promoted internally for years now, rewarding various anglers for considering sustainable fishing and C/R of large Salmon and Halibut if they choose....I feel very good about what we have done with this for years now, but I don't care what business you are trying to operate above the Red line, you can only promo so much product....IMO


On your website you state;

2012 is looking better for Halibut fishing. At this point we are in no way concerned about our guests not being able to take home 2 Hali's

The future is looking fantastic with the possibility of 3 in possession and a 2 per day limit being discussed. Contact Great Pacific Salmon Lodge for more information

I read this statement as not only promoting something that you can't honestly guarantee, it promotes full limits that aren't there. Is this conservative?

- Confused with this approach and it is obviously your choice how you do it. One challenge I see is that you direct questions for more information to yourself. No personal offense meant whatsoever, but IMO you seem disconnected and uneducated as a lodge owner, in regards to the regulations and working model of the coastal fishery. Our brief meeting in Calgary re-affirmed My opinion and assessment. I'm not sure what type of information you plan to share with inquiries, but please do your research before spreading mis-information that can ultimatley be bad for angling guests to the BC coast and our businesses.
Providing proper information and probable opportunities is something we should all be trying to do, along with being ambassadors of our Fisheries and Sustainable angling practises for a healthy future. This code of conduct and experience goes far beyond Business Advertorial on a fishing forum......

I hope you would agree?

[Fish-killer]

Cool, Thanks for the post!

[walking buffalo]

:confused:

Simply confused.



The quotas are regulated with conservation (recruitment) requirements built in to the system. These quotas are calculated after recruitment needs and commercial by-catch considerations.


Sports fishing has 12.45% of the total quota, with Native's allowed 17% and commercial having 70.55%.


Native and commercial fisheries do not throw the big ones back.


Do the sportsfisherman really believe that their selective harvest within 12% of the quota will have any impact on the fishery when recruitment is already built into the system?


There is no conservation value in promoting sportfisherman to further reduce their catch. Now if sportfishing had a higher percentage of the overall quota, then this discussion would have real value.


If you want to keep a big or smaller halibut, have a free conscience either way. :)

[canadiantdi]

You would think that this would be common sense, but unfortunately it's not.

[Tofinofish]

:confused:

Simply confused.



The quotas are regulated with conservation (recruitment) requirements built in to the system. These quotas are calculated after recruitment needs and commercial by-catch considerations.


Sports fishing has 12.45% of the total quota, with Native's allowed 17% and commercial having 70.55%.


Native and commercial fisheries do not throw the big ones back.


Do the sportsfisherman really believe that their selective harvest within 12% of the quota will have any impact on the fishery when recruitment is already built into the system?


There is no conservation value in promoting sportfisherman to further reduce their catch. Now if sportfishing had a higher percentage of the overall quota, then this discussion would have real value.


If you want to keep a big or smaller halibut, have a free conscience either way. :)

You have very credible and well researched comments and your questions are warranted. I am considering this approach juxtaposed to my local inside Chinook fishery where we catch a fraction of a fraction of the local stock, but their are regulations in place. Regulations that I helped create, but after 3 full life cycles (12 years) I am convinced that the recreational fishery is not going to do a lot to effect the overall number. (Due to conservation concerns for a few genetic stocks, I feel we need to still protect, but consider how we protect)
Parlay that to the Halibut discussion and it creates questions for sure.

Good points W.B.

[Jamie]

Jay no offence taken. However something stumps me and perhaps you could explain the difference between what I posted on www.greatsalmon.ca and what you posted here.

I would like to add that there have been mis-interpretations to the "Season ending date" where many on-line have been talking of late July and early August. This is not true or accurate.

Please don't take this type of uneducated banter to heart, and look to sources like SFI of BC.
I also stay tuned in fairly well if you want to ask, but we are looking at a very similar season to last year, with very potential dates of August 15th-25th when we will likley reach the current allocation of Recreational Halibut.

This new allocation, though far from perfect for this year, will see us back at 2 per day and 3 possesion in years to come.

We still need to encourage the Feds to look at a proper fix to the Halibut issue, but the "sky is not falling" for this season IMO....

I get my information from many different sources and you being one of them. I appreciate the fact you are so heavily involved within this fight to get the Hali to a fair and equitable position.

We wrap our season at the end of August, so I see no misdirection towards our clients. BUT that being said if we have clients that have booked with Hali as their main target, we have guaranteed them a full refund on deposits if they chose not to come this year.

Great Pacific Salmon Lodge is based on Trust, Honesty and supplying a fantastic experience to all our Guests. In no way would we ever mislead our guests. As a example, we don't offer trips when the fishing is less than prime. If I wouldn't take a trip during a specified time frame, then why would we ever sell one? I see charter operators/Lodge operators advertising fishing during times that at best would be mediocre and at worst a nice boat ride. We don't operate that way. We supply a high quality experience with a high quality company. We built Great Pacific Salmon Lodge with the Sportsman in mind and I must say our team is succeeding in that goal.

So in wrapping up
YES we will continue to help educate our guests on the benefits of releasing these large fish, but in no way do we look down on those that chose to keep the big ones. It's their fish, they caught it and it's their right to keep it.
YES we will continue to reward those guests who release these Large fish.
YES we will continue to learn from those around us.
YES we will continue to work towards operating the best Lodge on the coast.

Jamie Hunt

[Serengeti Charters]

We wrap our season at the end of August, so I see no misdirection towards our clients. BUT that being said if we have clients that have booked with Hali as their main target, we have guaranteed them a full refund on deposits if they chose not to come this year.



Been watching this thread as well as a couple others and feel I have to chime in as well. When I spoke to you the other day Jamie you said as of right now you're going into the first week of September and maybe more should others book. The posting on your website, no matter how you look at it, is very misleading to anyone who sees it, whether current or potential guests.

The line about returning their deposit I don't believe really applies in this situation just because there is no defined cut off date for halibut at the moment, so say a guests date is August 28th and they cut it off on aug 26th, I don't think there would be a cancellation due to the flights etc, so they are out of luck. My point being, is if they read your website they'd think everything is fine and dandy no matter when they come in 2012, if you have called or emailed everyone (as we have) then that is fine and I retract the above statement, except for the fact that it still majorly misleads and misinforms potential guests about the situation.

The part that gets at me, and should others, the most as well, is that you posted the link to the DFO announcement that is titled "Greater Certainty in the Pacific Halibut Fishery"...anyone with any knowledge on the subject knows this announcement does the exact opposite...I talked to you about it the day before you posted all this halibut information on your website and even explained that it was not good as you did not even realize there was an announcement, yet the site still says "we are in no way concerned about our guests not being able to take their 2 halibut home"....this is misleading advertising to the max. As there is no way you can't be concerned about it unless you plan on purchasing quota from the commercial fishing sector...which I do not advise. Also on your facebook page you put a picture of a big 100+lb halibut with the caption "Looks like we will have a great hali season this year" with no mention of possibility of closure at mid-end of august. I've posted on facebook and sent out emails to all potential and current guests to ensure they understand the situation.

My point is that this is extremely annoying as we are the ones who have to reinform people about the situation and get them politically active in attempting to get the situation fixed and fair and when lodges are saying everything is hunky dory it makes it hard to do that. I know you're a good guy and I enjoy our conversations a lot. I realize you're only in your 2nd year of business so attracting guests is one of the hardest parts to get booked, but I just feel the way you are going about it in this situation is wrong.

[Jamie]

Dave, our guests are all well informed of any POSSIBLE Hali clousures.
I see no mention of the POSSIBLE closure on your web page, I just see pics of Halis..
And this is on your web site

"When are the best times to book a fishing charter to catch salmon or halibut?

To catch salmon, the best times are from early June to early September. To catch halibut, the best season is from the beginning of May to the end of September.

Same goes with Jays website. In fact jays says his season goes until October, when they shut us down last year in the begining of september..

It is going to be a great season for fishing this year.

My information shows that we are going to have a season that runs until the end of summer. I believe the information to be reliable. Even Jay aggrees.
Jays statement about possible 2 a day 3 in possesion has been confirmed by more than one source. Albiat for future years.

You can argue all you want about what the Gov may or may not do. Like I said, I am not worried about it and we protect our guests as best as we can. Anyone booking at that time of year is well informed as to the rumors out there.
So far bookings have not been effected.

The group's coming in late August early September are wanting Coho. The hali doesnt matter to them.

As Jay (Tofino Fish) put it, THE SKY IS NOT FALLING!

Jamie

[Mark]

We reward our guests for releasing large salmon and large Hali's.
50# salmon = free trip
100 # Hali = free trip

This year we are going to do something for 40-50 pound salmon and 80-100 pound Hali's.
I can't and won't tell people to release the big ones, but we do reward those that do.
Jamie


Wow!! you guys are really doing your part. For that reason alone I'm going to consider your lodge for my 2013 trip. (My 2012 trip is already book, otherwise you'd be it!)

[Mark]

As a guest angler, I would jump on the chance to release a big fish for a return trip. On the business model for a Lodge, it is a pretty tough call if you encounter these fish on a regular basis. We don't see all too many over 100 lbs compared to some areas, and I would have had to promo 3 free trips in June alone last season, just from the boat I guided.
Great concept for promoting sustainability but don't know how long a business will last with good fishing in the area. JMO


I understand your point completely, but don't you think that the extra business that this policy would generate help off set the cost. Plus you have to remember that at least one additional person would accompany the free trip, so the entire charter would not be free.

[Mark]

:confused:



The quotas are regulated with conservation (recruitment) requirements built in to the system. These quotas are calculated after recruitment needs and commercial by-catch considerations.


Sports fishing has 12.45% of the total quota, with Native's allowed 17% and commercial having 70.55%.


Native and commercial fisheries do not throw the big ones back.


Do the sportsfisherman really believe that their selective harvest within 12% of the quota will have any impact on the fishery when recruitment is already built into the system?


If you want to keep a big or smaller halibut, have a free conscience either way. :)

Conservation isn't reliant on what everybody else does. And just because everybody else does it, or because its allowed doesn't make it right. Every big female save is more fry released.

JMO though

[Serengeti Charters]

I understand your point completely, but don't you think that the extra business that this policy would generate help off set the cost. Plus you have to remember that at least one additional person would accompany the free trip, so the entire charter would not be free.

Like Jay said though, if you are running into these sized fish a lot it would not offset the cost at all. We'd be giving away at least 15-20 trips a year, if not more. Regardless, that's his business plan and I'm not too concerned about that.

Jamie, that from the FAQ was there since the website was made (just ensured that it was fixed appropriately), and your attempt to spin it around on Jay and myself is just trying to distract from the fact you address the issue head on and then say nothing is wrong. You're misinforming people out there, and this is what bothers me (don't care about people booking with you over us, as I'm sure they'll still enjoy themselves and we are fully booked pretty much anyway). If the Canadian fishing public out there understood what is going on and the issues at hand (unfortunately, I don't believe you do [once again no offence intended]) then they'd be much more likely to take action themselves (email MP etc) and therefore pressure the government to actually present a solution to the problem that will result in long term stability. (Like I said before, really can't believe the link to the governments press release to show potential guests that everything is ok).

[Tofinofish]

I understand your point completely, but don't you think that the extra business that this policy would generate help off set the cost. Plus you have to remember that at least one additional person would accompany the free trip, so the entire charter would not be free.

Mark, I appreciate that you think this way, unfortunatley the cost of this approach is very likley more than the positive PR that you receive because of it. I would love to see a business prove me wrong on this, but it isn't really the "nature of the beast" in my experience over nearly 20 years in the business. The trend of a more sustainable mindset is going to help us all IMO.

[Tofinofish]

Jamie,

I was not trying to personally attack you on this topic, but as you know, I have invested more time than I would like to say, I am passionate for positive PR and proper transparency when it comes to this issue, the more fires we have to put out within our industry, takes away from our energy to move forward with the DFO..Myself and others working on this have found this especially challenging over the past couple weeks...
This is exactly what the Commercial sector wants, and the Gov't seems to relish in it too, as they have left the door open for the already failed quota leasing option.

I hope you can fill your season with Happy guests coming to the coast, and since we are their first line of information, this information is crutial in timing and content to the best of our ability.

I have posted an update on my site (http://www.tofinofishing.com/fishingreport/vancouver-island-salmon-halibut-steelhead.php)that helps with a simple backgrounder, the recent announcement, and where we are now, moving into the 2012 season.

It is a great looking season.

Good luck.