Poll shows shift in political support

[Tuc]

calgary.ctv.ca

POSTED AT 12:19 PM Friday, February 29
A new poll shows it is shaping up to be a wild election night in Calgary.

In Calgary, support for the Conservatives stands at 44 per cent among decided voters. The Tories took 52 per cent of the vote in the city in 2004.
Liberal support is at 29 per cent, almost exactly where it was in 2004.
Wildrose Alliance support has jumped to 13 per cent compared to 7 per cent for the Alberta Alliance in 2004.
The Green Party has jumped to 10 per cent compared to 6 per cent in 2004.
The NDP is down to 3 per cent.
This poll was taken February 27 and 28.


I think if the tories remain in power, it will be with a minoriety government.

[Kanonfodder]

Doubt it, I know whenever I am polled about anything I try my best to sku the results by giving bad info...yea I know childish but fun. I once told the pollster I voted for the National Socialist Party...he hadn't a clue what I meant, probably put me down as a NDP voter LOL

[Tuc]

Our Vision for Alberta http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/templates/rt_vortex/images/pdf_button.png (http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=73) http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/templates/rt_vortex/images/printButton.png (http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=73&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=130) http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/templates/rt_vortex/images/emailButton.png (http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/index2.php?option=com_content&task=emailform&id=73&itemid=130) For 37 long years Alberta has been governed by a party and now a Premier who are growing increasingly disconnected from the realities facing Alberta families and business

The Wildrose Alliance Party has a 5 Point Plan to build a stronger, safer, more prosperous Alberta:

Reforming Government and Restoring Accountability



We will eliminate waste, duplication and red tape
We will put the power back in the hands of Albertans through meaningful electoral reform including: MLA recall, fixed election dates and citizen initiatives via referendums
We will make government more efficient by holding bureaucracy accountable through mandated annual independent audits; we will trim the size of Cabinet to 12 members and eliminate pork-barrel spending altogether.Real Tax Relief for Albertans


We will raise the personal tax exemption to $20,000
We will reduce corporate taxes from 10% to 8%, Albertans will finally have a government that understands what meaningful tax relief is all about.
For those Albertans who care for their dependents in times of medical crisis or other, we will allow income splitting because in Alberta we shouldn’t punish families for taking care of one another
We recognize that the prosperity of this province rises and falls on the oil and gas industry. We have to have an equitable royalty framework in place to ensure outside investment into our province. To illustrate the impact of the current royalty plan from Mr. Stelmach the mineral lease sales in January this year as opposed to last year are down 200 million dollars.
We will eliminate Health Care Premiums in our first 30 days in government because we believe enough is enough
Investing in Communities


We will provide stable, reliable, and unconditional municipal funding and allow service delivery at the local and community level wherever possible.
We will create an Alberta Pension Plan to ensure a level of financial security that will cover the basic needs of individuals allowing them to retire with dignity.Broadening Access to Healthcare


We believe all Albertans should have timely and affordable access to healthcare – that means being able to actually have a doctor in this province.
As part of our universal health care plan, we will implement a pilot program in one of the smaller health regions that will be modeled after "funding follow the patient" rather than the per capita funding currently in place today. We want healthcare providers to get paid for the services they give to the customers.
By doing this we will give health regions more control over where money is spent, increase accessibility and reduce wait times once and for all.
Right now too many health care professionals are being trained in Alberta and then end up leaving our province. We will also provide significant debt relief to those medical professionals who train in Alberta and commit to practicing for a period of at least five years.Enhancing Education


We believe that in order for Alberta to aggressively compete in a 21st century economy – we need to have the best schools and the best education system that is the envy of the world.
We will implement a pilot project where funding follows the student. This will result in reduced class sizes, increased funding and give parents a real choice in the schools to which they send their children.

[Izumi]

That should go in the for sale forum lol :lol:

[sheephunter]

I think if the tories remain in power, it will be with a minoriety government.


Percentage of voters...especially only decided means very little. As the votes are so split between the other parties, the Conservatives can still easily win the majority of seats with less than 50% of the votes. A majority or minority is determined by how many seats you win, not the percentage of people that vote for you.

[340wtby]

I think the PC will win the election but they will definately lose some seats. If Morton gets re-elected I hope Stelmach makes him a back bencher and gives us a real breath of fresh air!

[Suka]

That being said, Sheep; Today in the medhat paper there was a little blurb on about page 9(medhat paper is very liberal biased) where the Tories are warning that a "protest vote" for something like the Wildrose Party could result in a split vote and a liberal gain.
Funny thing is that's exactly what the fed. liberals said a few yrs ago. The party They were talking about is, with some evolution basically in power now. Guess there's nothing new under the sun, except of course here in Alberta.

[LongDraw]

Lets face it, the PC's have a leader that came in third in the race to lead this party. That is about where his performance has ranked as well....

It is put-up or shut up this election for the Liberals. The best campagn manager that Taft has is Stelmach right now.

If the Libs don't have a BIG breakthrough this election Taft will be history by the time we are mowing our lawns, and if the PC's lose any ammount of seats Stelmach's days are numbered as leader as well.

There is definate change on the horizon........

[Copidosoma]

Percentage of voters...especially only decided means very little. As the votes are so split between the other parties, the Conservatives can still easily win the majority of seats with less than 50% of the votes. A majority or minority is determined by how many seats you win, not the percentage of people that vote for you.

This is something most people don't consider and which makes polls really poor predictors. "First past the post" doesn't always do a good job of accurately reflecting the votes cast.

Unfortunately, something more along the lines of proportional representation is too much of a complex mess to work (for now).

I won't be surprised if it is another majority. A minority would be nice in theory, but as we see federally, it really depends on how willing everyone is to work in such a system.

Just get out there and vote.

[sheephunter]

I live right next to Morton's riding and by the amount of signs, support is high for him. It will be interesting to see what Stelmach does with his cabinet though. Not long before we find out!

[lazy ike]

Manipulated Electoral Boundaries all but guarantee Conservative majorities in AB, the only thing voters will decide is which Conservatives.

[Jamie]

I had the chance to visit approx 1/2 Doz neighboorhoods today.
I have NEVER seen this amount of liberal signs on lawns.

If you take that as any sort of indication, the PC's will lose seats. Hopefully not enough to throw them out, but more than enough to send a great message.
This could be the first time in my life I dont vote PC.. I was thinking about taking a pic of my ballot and sending it in with a explantion.

Jamie

[Kanonfodder]

Usually Calgary is tory and Edmonton is Lieberal, methinks it will flip this election ..isn't Bronco Dave a Liebral....

[TreeGuy]

Like Jamie, this will be the first time in my life I will not vote conservative. Like Tuc, I'm going to be supporting the Wildrose Allience this time. I cannot morally support a PC party that is conservative in name only.

As I've said before, the ideal result of this election will be a Lieberal minority (won't happen). Stelmech gets booted and Taft doesn't have the numbers to screw things up while the PC's purge their party of those who have hijacked it. Again, that's not going to happen.

I see lousy things ahead as our population continues to expand via migration. You will see the same thing here as we did for way too many years federally, where the libs played upon regional disparities. It will (is) happen here on a scale where the urban/rural differences are exploited for selfish political power retention.:mad2:

Tree

[willy]

i hope for a pc minority with enough wildroserose alliance to control the govt then next election a wildrose sweep.

[gopherslayer]

i hope for a pc minority with enough wildroserose alliance to control the govt then next election a wildrose sweep.

:D

[archdlx]

Too bad we don't have a Wild Rose candidate in the Battle River-Wainwright area!

archdlx

[SNIPER]

Too Bad there isn't a wildrose candidate in Morton's riding!!! Or is there?

[BEL]

I am a PC through and through, but I will vote Liberal to let the PC's know that people are pizzed off. If they lose more seats and votes in general maybe they willl begin to listen more to the people. A big majority tells them they can do whatever they wish. BEL

[sheephunter]

Too Bad there isn't a wildrose candidate in Morton's riding!!! Or is there?

Joseph McMaster

http://www.wildrosealliance.ca/party/index.php?option=com_sobi2&sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=6&sobi2Id=67&Itemid=115

[BEL]

Sorry about the spelling of Bronconnier. If Taft falters I think Bronconnier is the next Liberal leader and if the PC's don't smarten up Bronconnier is the next Premier. Taft has missed the boat in this election because the PC's were ripe for the pickin and the Liberals have not made as much progress as they should have. Bronconnier is much more of a dynamic leader than Taft. BEL

[JohninAB]

My feeling is a Tory majority but they will loose some seats in the legislature. Poor popular vote numbers for the PC's and Stelmach is going to be in trouble.

If Morton gets reelected, he will be the Minister of SRD for at least 6 months afterwards.

[Kanonfodder]

Sorry about the spelling of Bronconnier. If Taft falters I think Bronconnier is the next Liberal leader and if the PC's don't smarten up Bronconnier is the next Premier. Taft has missed the boat in this election because the PC's were ripe for the pickin and the Liberals have not made as much progress as they should have. Bronconnier is much more of a dynamic leader than Taft. BEL

Bood point Bel and on the money, Bronco Dave may well be the next Lieberal Leader

[BUD]

Liberals , Torys , Aliance , have all the same policys , all anti labour , all for big business , all for the rich ,will do nothing for the Joe Sixpack, and their all crooks.

[Okotokian]

Usually Calgary is tory and Edmonton is Lieberal, methinks it will flip this election ..isn't Bronco Dave a Liebral....

Read a story that said just that. Calgary is tiring of the Tories and doesn't think so much of Stelmach. Since he has gotten in, Tory support has actually gone up in Redmonton. I don't think the two cities will completely flip. Having lived in both cities I can say with some certainty that Calgary is just a more conservative city than Edmonton, but the Tories could lose seats in Calgary and pick up a few in Edmonton.

[KyleM]

BUD, I finally agree with you :lol:

Makes no difference who you have in there.
Just depends on which way you wanna get screwed.
They can all do you in a variety of ways.

[Okotokian]

BUD, I finally agree with you :lol:

Makes no difference who you have in there.
Just depends on which way you wanna get screwed.
They can all do you in a variety of ways.

We don't change parties in Alberta, just positions ;)

[Donny Bear]

ND & ANTI never stray far from one another I believe I have had a personal insight thanks to this thread.

I remain satisfied to live in the wealthiest province even if others have more resources but poorer management nuff said. note didn't say ours was good just the rest are worse :evilgrin:

[CNP]

A Wildrose Alliance Government will agree with the terms of the Federal Clarity Act. That is any province seeking separation from Canada must first hold a referendum of the people of the province. The referendum question must be free of ambiguity and clear in the support it achieves for the result to be taken as the democratic will and expression of the will of the people to enter into negotiations that lead to secession.

I'm not a separatist (Canada first), so I don't see the necessity of this policy. In fact, it bothers me that the WAP includes this in their policies. It speaks of an "unsaid" vision. I'm a social and fiscal conservative, so I'm pretty much unsatisfied politically.....but certainly not a separatist. Too many separatists (one is too many) are in the ranks of the WAP for my liking. I'm left with................Go Eddy go!!!!!!!!!!

[Okotokian]

I'm not a separatist (Canada first), so I don't see the necessity of this policy. In fact, it bothers me that the WAP includes this in their policies. It speaks of an "unsaid" vision. I'm a social and fiscal conservative, so I'm pretty much unsatisfied politically.....but certainly not a separatist. Too many separatists (one is too many) are in the ranks of the WAP for my liking. I'm left with................Go Eddy go!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. Why would a party even need to reference this if it was irrelevant to their future aims? I don't think most Wild Rose supporters are separatists, but I think most separatists are Wild Rose supporters.... sort of like Quebecers and the Bloc/PQ. Don't need any of 'em.

[rugatika]

I'm not a separatist (Canada first), so I don't see the necessity of this policy. In fact, it bothers me that the WAP includes this in their policies. It speaks of an "unsaid" vision. I'm a social and fiscal conservative, so I'm pretty much unsatisfied politically.....but certainly not a separatist. Too many separatists (one is too many) are in the ranks of the WAP for my liking. I'm left with................Go Eddy go!!!!!!!!!!

no offense or nothing personal, but I'm not a separatist either, but I see nothing wrong with inlcuding that card in the deck.


I'm against war also, but there comes a time when it is necessary.

Was it Aristotle that said "We make war so that we may live in peace."?

This topic has maybe been beaten to death, but I think it's time Canadians come to the reality that no one government will ever be able provide a social and economic policy that pleases ALL Canadians across the country. The country is simply too diverse. For this reason, greater powers need to be given to the provinces. Canada essentially needs to become a republic of equal independent states rather than a country of provinces that are subjects of a federal government.

Canada and its provinces were formed very much in the model of and for its homeland Britain. Designed to optimize flow of goods from this backwater country to the homeland. Canada was seen as a property of Imperialist England and the federal government has looked at the provinces in much the same way for all these years... as property of the federal government. The United States was formed as a backlash to this form of government.

The framers of the American constitution really were geniuses that devised one of the greatest systems of government ever. (Note, that the present American government is very much a bastardization of and violates the constitution in many respects). Alberta, and others would be well advised to look to the American model in seeking a "new deal" with Canada. Separitism would be our "nuclear" weapon in bargaining. Something that will likely never be used nor is it necessarily desirable to use, but it is a valuable arrow to have in the quiver nonetheless.

Just my two cents. (and that may be all its worth):lol:

I'm not even voting this election, (for the first time since I was a kid) since Wildrose Alliance is not fielding a candidate in my riding. The status quo just isn't doing it for me anymore.

[Tuc]

I remain satisfied to live in the wealthiest province even if others have more resources but poorer management nuff said.


Wealthiest...... with AHC premieums and the longest wait times in Canada for health care. The Alberta government should be ashamed of these statistics. People are (and have) died here in Alberta because they didn't recieve the proper medical treatment, in a timely manner. Calgary mothers' miscarriaged in emergency waiting rooms and some had to be sent to the States to deliver their babies because our hospitals are too over crowded. Ralph Klein shut down 4 hospitals here in Calgary during his time as Premiere and you say "note didn't say ours was good just the rest are worse" I don't think so! Wealthy for the politicians and their corporate buddies while the average JOE BLOW pays the price. I wonder how long Ralph waits for medical attention when he or his family needs it??? :mad3: :mad3: :mad2:

Klein deregulated and privatised every gull darn service possible, not to mention his 3 tier health care plan that he almost got away with. That was the only time and I repeat, "only time" his government ever listened to Albertans when we said NO! and reluctantly....

Stelmach is a continuation of Kleins policies, Morton is trying to sell Alberta's wildlife now. Call it privatisation or whatever you want, it is wrong and should be stopped. The Conservatives have been in power way to long(14 YEARS) and they don't seem to want to change.

Too bad our Native friends have no polling stations on many of the reserves, wonder why? They know many will not drive the 30 to 40 minutes to get to one. Old Eddie knows his votes aren't coming from that direction. Metis either.

Don, yes Alberta is a rich province and we should have the very best of everything, but we don't. I guess you have to be a corporation buddy of Kleins to reap those benefits. Alberta has seen drastic cutbacks over the years in health care, education and senior benefit/programs. Hey, our seniors built this province and Ralph has em all living in poverty. Remember now, a 6 billion dollar surplus but our seniors are not that important, our health care is not that important neither when you can recieve it with the snap of a finger. Too bad he wouldn't trade places with a senior for a week (in a nursing home) and get a taste of the good life, eh! .... NOT on your FAT PENSION LIFE Ralph!!!

Anyrate, I'll vote for change and you die hards can keep us in the hole Klein dug. Wake up Alberta, it's time for change!

[Donny Bear]

I am a worker I pay 264.00 (I don't pay 7% prov. Sales Tax) for health care every 1/4 and have never been denied health care my son will have surgery for the 3rd time on his feet and the surgeon is one of the best in the world wait time 6 weeks non life threatening. I'm not saying its perfect by any means TUC but I also Know the political sway of the people at the helm of the regional health in this province the waste is gross. I have a friend who left not due to the cut backs but because people were lined up in emergency waiting while co-workers let them and then blamed the gov for the wait! He is a good Doctor but honest so he makes less but sees no suffering over political agenda. I will say nothing more I avoid this when I can but people have been scared over jobs in recent months and if we get a left gov we will lose jobs see higher tax and watch this province join the rest of the have nots. MHO

[cooper]

We need a quebecois candidate.

[BUD]

ND & ANTI never stray far from one another I believe I have had a personal insight thanks to this thread.

I remain satisfied to live in the wealthiest province even if others have more resources but poorer management nuff said. note didn't say ours was good just the rest are worse :evilgrin:

WHAT !!! ? wealthiest province , then how come l have no money.

[BUD]

Wealthiest...... with AHC premieums and the longest wait times in Canada for health care. The Alberta government should be ashamed of these statistics. People are (and have) died here in Alberta because they didn't recieve the proper medical treatment, in a timely manner. Calgary mothers' miscarriaged in emergency waiting rooms and some had to be sent to the States to deliver their babies because our hospitals are too over crowded. Ralph Klein shut down 4 hospitals here in Calgary during his time as Premiere and you say "note didn't say ours was good just the rest are worse" I don't think so! Wealthy for the politicians and their corporate buddies while the average JOE BLOW pays the price. I wonder how long Ralph waits for medical attention when he or his family needs it??? :mad3: :mad3: :mad2:

Klein deregulated and privatised every gull darn service possible, not to mention his 3 tier health care plan that he almost got away with. That was the only time and I repeat, "only time" his government ever listened to Albertans when we said NO! and reluctantly....

Stelmach is a continuation of Kleins policies, Morton is trying to sell Alberta's wildlife now. Call it privatisation or whatever you want, it is wrong and should be stopped. The Conservatives have been in power way to long(14 YEARS) and they don't seem to want to change.

Too bad our Native friends have no polling stations on many of the reserves, wonder why? They know many will not drive the 30 to 40 minutes to get to one. Old Eddie knows his votes aren't coming from that direction. Metis either.

Don, yes Alberta is a rich province and we should have the very best of everything, but we don't. I guess you have to be a corporation buddy of Kleins to reap those benefits. Alberta has seen drastic cutbacks over the years in health care, education and senior benefit/programs. Hey, our seniors built this province and Ralph has em all living in poverty. Remember now, a 6 billion dollar surplus but our seniors are not that important, our health care is not that important neither when you can recieve it with the snap of a finger. Too bad he wouldn't trade places with a senior for a week (in a nursing home) and get a taste of the good life, eh! .... NOT on your FAT PENSION LIFE Ralph!!!

Anyrate, I'll vote for change and you die hards can keep us in the hole Klein dug. Wake up Alberta, it's time for change!


YEAAAAAAA YEHHHHHHH , TUC , you are the smartist man here , next to me , l applaud you my friend , take a bow , you are absolutly right on.

[RandyBoBandy]

looks like we voted to get more of the same!:wave:

[Jamie]

WHAT !!! ? wealthiest province , then how come l have no money.

Compared to who?
You have plenty of $$$ compared to the vast majority of the world. Lots of $$ available in this province.. Just have to be smart enough/work hard enough
to get some.

Jamie

[BUD]

Compared to who?
You have plenty of $$$ compared to the vast majority of the world. Lots of $$ available in this province.. Just have to be smart enough/work hard enough
to get some.

Jamie

Or be like the Torys and keep all the tax dollars for themselves to invest in china , etc.

[209x50]

That poll only missed by a little bit. Missed predicting the largest majority since the peak of King Ralph!

[Donny Bear]

Think I'll Go Out To Alberta things are good there in the fall looks like Eddy didn't do bad after all :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yep I'm Singing join in or if it's to bad move on along :tongue2:


Just had to have my childish moment! I would like to thank the Liberal media for helping to get PC's out to vote with the threat of a minority PC Gov. :evilgrin:

[christensen]

WHAT !!! ? wealthiest province , then how come l have no money.Well thats a easy one:)

l grab a beer can , and then dance around with my shotgun , fire a shot into the air and holler WHOOPIEEEEEEEEE you might be spending too much money on beer and shot gun shells .:wave:

[BUD]

Well thats a easy one:)

you might be spending too much money on beer and shot gun shells .:wave:

HA HAaaaaaa, l,ll bet ya my mornin coffee and donut that the very first thing that Stelmach does is take a trip to China and give all Big Business (oil companys) hefty tax breaks.

[Walleyes]

HA HAaaaaaa, l,ll bet ya my mornin coffee and donut that the very first thing that Stelmach does is take a trip to China and give all Big Business (oil companys) hefty tax breaks.
Lets hope so,, nothing wrong with good buisness relations and having steady work....

Haa I love the topic of this thread " Poll shows shift in political support" yah they got in even more seats !!!! life will remain good....

[Tuc]

Well, so much for polls.

life will remain good....

Can't agree with you on this one Wall...but let's hope it will get better, especially our health care system. It's in dire straits and something needs to be done .... and soon.

[Walleyes]

Well, so much for polls.

Can't agree with you on this one Wall...but let's hope it will get better, especially our health care system. It's in dire straits and something needs to be done .... and soon.
You are rite Tuc there is always room for improvement... Another thing we have to start looking after is our education system,, some of our schools are a total disgrace.. But the alternative would of been disastrous to say the least..

I must admit I was hoping for more of an opposition this time around.. It only makes for better government and business to have competition..

[Donny Bear]

I listened to a couple fella's this morning talking about what the change would be like in Alberta now that the PC's were in they had been working here for over a year and voted Liberal in hopes of keeping things the way they were you know lots of work and such. I had to ask them to clarify they actually thought that the Libs were in power in Alberta? how can people like that vote :huh: 11 PC wins in a row and your living and working here and don't know who is in power I am amazed.

[TheClash]

Well, so much for polls.

Can't agree with you on this one Wall...but let's hope it will get better, especially our health care system. It's in dire straits and something needs to be done .... and soon.



hmm interesting...having a wife that just beat a critical illness (dreaded C word at 28 years old...ya it sucks)..i have nothing but praise for the healthcare system. we had little to no wait times. staff was incredible. appointments were easily made etc.....but maybe that only kicks in when you get specialized treatment. maybe it is the general system that is indeed in trouble. ie. emergency rooms.....

[Okotokian]

hmm interesting...having a wife that just beat a critical illness (dreaded C word at 28 years old...ya it sucks)..i have nothing but praise for the healthcare system. we had little to no wait times. staff was incredible. appointments were easily made etc.....but maybe that only kicks in when you get specialized treatment. maybe it is the general system that is indeed in trouble. ie. emergency rooms.....

My recent experience sort of mirrors yours Clash. When I had some problems I felt I got everything I needed in an appropriate time frame. However, I know of other people who can't find a doctor, etc. and the emergency rooms are deplorable. a number of years ago I had to wait hours for treatment of two boys with broken limbs. I think we have too few doctors in this province and too many lawyers. Too few teachers and too many "payday loan" shysters. ;)

[Kanonfodder]

The main problem with the health care system is people want everything now. By this I mean I have had some serious issues that req'd hospitilation and everytime I went into emerg It was obvious that half these people had little wrong with them that a family doc or medi centre couldnt provide. The other problem is that paremedics are req'd to stay with patients until they are admitted and with these types of waits it ties up ambulances that should be able to dump and go

[BUD]

Lets hope so,, nothing wrong with good buisness relations and having steady work....

Haa I love the topic of this thread " Poll shows shift in political support" yah they got in even more seats !!!! life will remain good....

Yea , steady work alright , people now have to work 3 jobs at min wage just to get by after king Ralph broke all the good union jobs , now min wage jobs are the thing and no benifits , no paid holidays either , yeaaa keep working under a Tory govt , foreverrrrr, cause company pension plans are disapearing too, life aint that good , unless your a crook.

[Sporty]

Wealthiest...... with AHC premieums and the longest wait times in Canada for health care. The Alberta government should be ashamed of these statistics. People are (and have) died here in Alberta because they didn't recieve the proper medical treatment, in a timely manner. Calgary mothers' miscarriaged in emergency waiting rooms and some had to be sent to the States to deliver their babies because our hospitals are too over crowded. Ralph Klein shut down 4 hospitals here in Calgary during his time as Premiere and you say "note didn't say ours was good just the rest are worse" I don't think so! Wealthy for the politicians and their corporate buddies while the average JOE BLOW pays the price. I wonder how long Ralph waits for medical attention when he or his family needs it??? :mad3: :mad3: :mad2:

Klein deregulated and privatised every gull darn service possible, not to mention his 3 tier health care plan that he almost got away with. That was the only time and I repeat, "only time" his government ever listened to Albertans when we said NO! and reluctantly....

Stelmach is a continuation of Kleins policies, Morton is trying to sell Alberta's wildlife now. Call it privatisation or whatever you want, it is wrong and should be stopped. The Conservatives have been in power way to long(14 YEARS) and they don't seem to want to change.

Too bad our Native friends have no polling stations on many of the reserves, wonder why? They know many will not drive the 30 to 40 minutes to get to one. Old Eddie knows his votes aren't coming from that direction. Metis either.

Don, yes Alberta is a rich province and we should have the very best of everything, but we don't. I guess you have to be a corporation buddy of Kleins to reap those benefits. Alberta has seen drastic cutbacks over the years in health care, education and senior benefit/programs. Hey, our seniors built this province and Ralph has em all living in poverty. Remember now, a 6 billion dollar surplus but our seniors are not that important, our health care is not that important neither when you can recieve it with the snap of a finger. Too bad he wouldn't trade places with a senior for a week (in a nursing home) and get a taste of the good life, eh! .... NOT on your FAT PENSION LIFE Ralph!!!

Anyrate, I'll vote for change and you die hards can keep us in the hole Klein dug. Wake up Alberta, it's time for change!

We have AHC, other provinces have PST, same crap different pile, health care needs to be paid somehow. I heard Ralph on TV the other night and he said people just don't understand the complexities of our health care system and the constant maintenance costs. Alberta spends half it's budget on health care. Canada's health care is unsustainable and at least Ralph had the balls to do and try what other's are thinking, they just don't have the fortitude to admit it but our health care needs an over haul. Within the next 40 years Canadians are going to be taxed 100% just to keep up with the free for all Health care.

Sadly Canadians are scared to try other models that European countries have adapted successfully and rate much further than Canada on the World Health Organization list and others. Canadians get freaked out when anyone mentions change to our health care and automatically assume that we'll fall in line with the states where as many European countries have two tiered systems that cost less than our model and have better health care. People need to educate themselves because as it stands now the Government dictates how we treat our personal health and we receive substandard health care as a result.

We already have queue jumping, hockey players, politicians like Jean Cretin and our former Governor General have all queue jumped and the only difference between us and the states is that we the tax payers pay for their queue jumping, in the states the would have had to pay for themselves. Mean while my father in law still awaits his quadruple bypass surgery and Jean Cretin hit the emergency Friday and had his surgery by Monday yet my father in law helped pay for Jean's queue jumping but can't pay for himself unless he goes to another country. He'll likely die before he gets his surgery.

Everyone wants something for nothing and that is what we are currently getting with our health care system just the other way around, nothing for something (our taxes)

[BUD]

We have AHC, other provinces have PST, same crap different pile, health care needs to be paid somehow. I heard Ralph on TV the other night and he said people just don't understand the complexities of our health care system and the constant maintenance costs. Alberta spends half it's budget on health care. Canada's health care is unsustainable and at least Ralph had the balls to do and try what other's are thinking, they just don't have the fortitude to admit it but our health care needs an over haul. Within the next 40 years Canadians are going to be taxed 100% just to keep up with the free for all Health care.

Sadly Canadians are scared to try other models that European countries have adapted successfully and rate much further than Canada on the World Health Organization list and others. Canadians get freaked out when anyone mentions change to our health care and automatically assume that we'll fall in line with the states where as many European countries have two tiered systems that cost less than our model and have better health care. People need to educate themselves because as it stands now the Government dictates how we treat our personal health and we receive substandard health care as a result.

We already have queue jumping, hockey players, politicians like Jean Cretin and our former Governor General have all queue jumped and the only difference between us and the states is that we the tax payers pay for their queue jumping, in the states the would have had to pay for themselves. Mean while my father in law still awaits his quadruple bypass surgery and Jean Cretin hit the emergency Friday and had his surgery by Monday yet my father in law helped pay for Jean's queue jumping but can't pay for himself unless he goes to another country. He'll likely die before he gets his surgery.

Everyone wants something for nothing and that is what we are currently getting with our health care system just the other way around, nothing for something (our taxes)

Nope ,the problem with our health care is the Torys that manage it , they dont want to put the Medicare money back into the system , they want to invest it elsewhere for self gain.
Our health care system is self substaining through our health premiums that we all pay , and if our premiums need to be increased , l for one do not mind ,its not the Govts money , but they think it is , so they cry , cry , cry , that its unaffordable so they have an excuse to keep the premium bucks that are supposed to be put back into health care.
We all pay through health premiums , its not free , we all pay for it , and we should all get it if its run properly, also bringing in Asians by the boatload every year and giving them free health benifits at our expense dont help the system either.

[lazy ike]

What was the turn out, 48%? The reality is, over 1/2 of Albertans could give a **** what happens in this province.

It would make more sense if they simply polled to discover the % of feckless lazy Albertans. Just ask this question.

Would you rather spend time exercising your democratic responsibility for 20 minutes or watching TV for an extra 20minutes.

[Sporty]

The Tory's aren't responsible for the management of health care system in this country. Health care isn't solely managed at a provincial level, it is managed at the federal level and last time I checked it wasn't the Tory's that implemented free health care. Universal health care was implemented during a time when our populations were less and no thought was given to the future and how it could be sustained. Every province has it's own issues with health care, this isn't exclusive to Alberta and the Tory's.

If hockey players can jump queues and receive surgery before the average Joe that has been waiting for 6 months paid by us the tax payers then those "boat loads of Asians" are equally entitled to free health. Sadly the government has decided that hockey players are more important than than regular Canadians. My opinions about our health care system isnt based on ideas dreamed up in my head, data and facts show that our health care system is not sustainable and will be even less so in the coming years.

[Okotokian]

Yea , steady work alright , people now have to work 3 jobs at min wage just to get by after king Ralph broke all the good union jobs , now min wage jobs are the thing and no benifits , no paid holidays either , yeaaa keep working under a Tory govt , foreverrrrr, cause company pension plans are disapearing too, life aint that good , unless your a crook.

Huh? What good union jobs did he break? What company pension plans did he cause to disappear? We have a larger civil service (unionized) per capita than most other provinces.

I agree things are tough for the poor due to the run-up in housing prices, and something should probably be done to help, but the Tories didn't cause that, unless you think they should have gutted the economy so there was no boom. There are poor people in other Liberal and NDP provinces too, just more of them.

I hope we don't have a long spell of bad weather this spring, or you are going to blame the Tories for that too LOL ;) Oh, and life is generally good, and I'm not a crook.

[Donny Bear]

Huh? What good union jobs did he break? What company pension plans did he cause to disappear? We have a larger civil service (unionized) per capita than most other provinces.

I agree things are tough for the poor due to the run-up in housing prices, and something should probably be done to help, but the Tories didn't cause that, unless you think they should have gutted the economy so there was no boom. There are poor people in other Liberal and NDP provinces too, just more of them.

I hope we don't have a long spell of bad weather this spring, or you are going to blame the Tories for that too LOL ;) Oh, and life is generally good, and I'm not a crook.

X2 Okotokian I do very well by my standard but resent being called a crooK as I am not but I work hard and enjoy my work!

[rugatika]

What was the turn out, 48%? The reality is, over 1/2 of Albertans could give a **** what happens in this province.

It would make more sense if they simply polled to discover the % of feckless lazy Albertans. Just ask this question.

Would you rather spend time exercising your democratic responsibility for 20 minutes or watching TV for an extra 20minutes.

Well Ike...that depends...what are my choices. If I have 3 choices between 3 parties that all promise to increase government...I choose to sit it out. I have not missed a single federal or provincial election in my life until this year. The only party I would have voted for would have been the Wild Rose Alliance, but they weren't in my riding. None of the other parties were deserving of my vote.

I participate in democracy in this country in several other ways, such as donating to parties that I think will move this country in the right direction...(smaller government), and writing letters to MLA's and MP's trying to get them to understand the fundamentals of why increasing government is a road to ruin.

If you voted...congratulations for finding a party that you support and showing that support at the ballot box. However, if you think that spending 20minutes at election time is all that is required to "do your civic duty" well...look where that has taken this country. I spend an average of at least 5 hours a week reading books on politics, articles, different forms of government and histories of previous political systems. Believe me, voting for the status quo should not fill your heart with pride at the road we are going down. The people that died for our right to democracy (and FREEDOM) and our children deserve much better than that. I hope that the children of the next generation can look forward to something other than giving 60%,70% or 80% of their income to the government that was democratically voted into power by people who had no understanding of where this country is headed.

If spending 20 minutes at the ballot box makes you feel morally superior to me though then you go ahead and revel in your magnificent accomplishment.

Sorry for the rant. Just getting tired of all the "don't vote, don't complain" cliches that people are rattling off without thinking about what they are saying. I used to be one of them myself, but frankly, I'm tired of supporting more of the same. It seems that no matter who we vote in they line up at the trough and charge us a pretty penny for playing Robin Hood.

[Tuc]

also bringing in Asians by the boatload every year and giving them free health benifits at our expense dont help the system either.

I don't think Asians are as big a strain on our health care system as our own people. Asians generally look after themselves, you may see them at a doctors office for a cold, flu or something like that. They drink, (green tea) eat healthy and have their own home remedies/cures that work a heck of alot better than our own. Personally I don't think the problem lies here when we speak of over crowded wait rooms.

Look at the many Canadians that smoke, drink, (addicts) and don't look after their health. Go check any emergency ward on the weekend and you'll find it full of homeless people, drunks and druggies. Problem? ...You bet! ... In the major cities, Doctors see many of these same people in our wait rooms week after week. I've heard people say, these are the ones that should be paying more for health care. Nice thought but how do you get water out of a stone. Many of these people are living in poverty as is.
Anyrate, I agree, the heath care system needs to be overhauled, apparently it's not working. I don't agree with privatisation or a 3 tier HCS. The rich will get the very best of doctors and the average Joe will get the rest.

Sporty, you say the rest of the provinces only have PST. Nova Scotia has Maritime medical= free and Ontario has OHIP=free. Not sure about the rest of Canada.
Maybe Alberta has no PST but our hidden taxes are phenominal and not like other provinces. Don't kid yourself, I'd rather pay the PST or HST and be done with it.

[lazy ike]

Well Ike...that depends...what are my choices. If I have 3 choices between 3 parties that all promise to increase government...I choose to sit it out. I have not missed a single federal or provincial election in my life until this year. The only party I would have voted for would have been the Wild Rose Alliance, but they weren't in my riding. None of the other parties were deserving of my vote.

I participate in democracy in this country in several other ways, such as donating to parties that I think will move this country in the right direction...(smaller government), and writing letters to MLA's and MP's trying to get them to understand the fundamentals of why increasing government is a road to ruin.

If you voted...congratulations for finding a party that you support and showing that support at the ballot box. However, if you think that spending 20minutes at election time is all that is required to "do your civic duty" well...look where that has taken this country. I spend an average of at least 5 hours a week reading books on politics, articles, different forms of government and histories of previous political systems. Believe me, voting for the status quo should not fill your heart with pride at the road we are going down. The people that died for our right to democracy (and FREEDOM) and our children deserve much better than that. I hope that the children of the next generation can look forward to something other than giving 60%,70% or 80% of their income to the government that was democratically voted into power by people who had no understanding of where this country is headed.

If spending 20 minutes at the ballot box makes you feel morally superior to me though then you go ahead and revel in your magnificent accomplishment.

Sorry for the rant. Just getting tired of all the "don't vote, don't complain" cliches that people are rattling off without thinking about what they are saying. I used to be one of them myself, but frankly, I'm tired of supporting more of the same. It seems that no matter who we vote in they line up at the trough and charge us a pretty penny for playing Robin Hood.

Listen, I know exactly how you feel. I have yet to meet a politition that wouldn't rather spay or neuter than vote for but it won't change unless we change it. I hate the PC's so I joined their party. My letters to my mp and my MLA always begin with. "I voted for you" and then typically go downhill from there. If 80% of ALbertans voted and the same % of PC's got in, we would have a better version of democracy than we do now.

[BUD]

Huh? What good union jobs did he break? What company pension plans did he cause to disappear? We have a larger civil service (unionized) per capita than most other provinces.

I agree things are tough for the poor due to the run-up in housing prices, and something should probably be done to help, but the Tories didn't cause that, unless you think they should have gutted the economy so there was no boom. There are poor people in other Liberal and NDP provinces too, just more of them.

I hope we don't have a long spell of bad weather this spring, or you are going to blame the Tories for that too LOL ;) Oh, and life is generally good, and I'm not a crook.

Where were you when King Ralph lowred the boom ?
Govt liqure stores were unionized , jobs paid 18 bucks an hour , Ralph soldum out to the private sector, now we have 5 stores every 3 blocks , and clerks making min wage or slightly higher.
Safeway did the same , if Ralph can do it so can we was their moto , they did have a union with a fair wage about 16 bucks an hr back then , now the staff makes about 10 an hr.
The registry was privatized , good paying jobs lost , altho the lineups are gone now , and so are the good wages.
Hospital care staff privatized or completely eliminated , now we have mostly philipino women working that area for a margin above poverty wages , all part time so they dont have to pay benifits like paid hollidays , double time or overtime , all put in place by the King.
Easy to brag about a surplus when you fire all your employees.

[rugatika]

Sounds like the jobs pay enough money. If they didn't, they couldn't fill them. If the job and pay suck that much then quit and get a different job. Supply and demand. Learn it, live it, love it.

Unions are just another level of bureaucracy that suck "taxes" out of your wages in the form of union dues. They had their time and place, but those days are gone.

If you want to make lots of money get a job that is in high demand and requires a unique skill set (like running a big corporation successfully or brain surgeon). If you want a low paying job try and get a job that is easy to do and can be accomplished by anyone. I think I learned this in about grade 6 while I was shovelling barley out of grain bins.

[Rocks]

Hey Bud: Ever hear the saying: better to shut your mouth and look stupid, than open it and remove all doubt?

[Donny Bear]

No need to insult budpeople, poke fun maybe :wave: but nothing too mean.
That said I think Saskatchewan has made a choice that would make it less than atractive Bud but B.C. lower mainland or Manitoba may stilll offer you a place of comfort away from all of us bad old entrapenure's and the like's.
However all are welcome in our wonderful province just don't be to critical of us:D

[BUD]

So what do you all suggest , we go back to the days before unions when workers had no say in the work enviroment , and worked close to slave labour with no paid hollidays or weekends off , its coming again , maybe then you,ll all be happier.
Unions are your only friend in the work place , and the attitude that some of you have , that if you dont like your job , find another one is not the point , we as workers have to better our jobs for ourselves and future workers , after all we are the ones who make the wealthy boss wealthy , without the worker the boss is nobody , we deserve our share of the pie.
All wealth comes from labour and to labour it should belong.
And theres safety issues in the workplace , unions make sure they are put in place , without unions , well ,any of you who are now working in a non union shop know the answer to that , your likely part time with no paid overtime or days off , or holliday pay , or vacation paid , and min wage , so there ya go , go work 2 jobs to pay for your house.

[BUD]

Hey Bud: Ever hear the saying: better to shut your mouth and look stupid, than open it and remove all doubt?

Yea l have , is that why your mouth open , Haaaaaaaaa.

[albertadave]

So what do you all suggest , we go back to the days before unions when workers had no say in the work enviroment , and worked close to slave labour with no paid hollidays or weekends off , its coming again , maybe then you,ll all be happier.
Unions are your only friend in the work place , and the attitude that some of you have , that if you dont like your job , find another one is not the point , we as workers have to better our jobs for ourselves and future workers , after all we are the ones who make the wealthy boss wealthy , without the worker the boss is nobody , we deserve our share of the pie.
All wealth comes from labour and to labour it should belong.
And theres safety issues in the workplace , unions make sure they are put in place , without unions , well ,any of you who are now working in a non union shop know the answer to that , your likely part time with no paid overtime or days off , or holliday pay , or vacation paid , and min wage , so there ya go , go work 2 jobs to pay for your house.
I think you'll have a hard time finding a supportive audience for your socialist, woe is me, the world owes me a favor crap around here bud

[Copidosoma]

So what do you all suggest , we go back to the days before unions when workers had no say in the work enviroment , and worked close to slave labour with no paid hollidays or weekends off , its coming again , maybe then you,ll all be happier.
Unions are your only friend in the work place , and the attitude that some of you have , that if you dont like your job , find another one is not the point , we as workers have to better our jobs for ourselves and future workers , after all we are the ones who make the wealthy boss wealthy , without the worker the boss is nobody , we deserve our share of the pie.
All wealth comes from labour and to labour it should belong.
And theres safety issues in the workplace , unions make sure they are put in place , without unions , well ,any of you who are now working in a non union shop know the answer to that , your likely part time with no paid overtime or days off , or holliday pay , or vacation paid , and min wage , so there ya go , go work 2 jobs to pay for your house.

Oh boy, do we have to listen to this? Yeah unions do benefit workers and are needed under certain circumstances (ie. developing countries and early industrialization). However, just like the corporations they hate so much, unions become bloated and inflexible and dogmatic too.

Labour is important in wealth but so are proper management and investment in research and development. Two areas that organized labour falls very short in producing value.

Your description of non-labour jobs is also very lacking in any realism. Not every non-union worker is stuck in 7-11. Much of the world without unions goes along just fine thanks...

[Walleyes]

Well BUD it all makes sense now !!! now we can see why you have the attitude that you have on most subjects here.. Not that it wasn't quite apparent before...

Yup us poor dumb Albertans hey,, we are only the envy of the world never mind the country.. But we could do better all we need is the N.D.P. running things then we would just be perfect.. Are some people honestly that brain dead or are they different just to be different..

[Scott N]

Where were you when King Ralph lowred the boom ?
Govt liqure stores were unionized , jobs paid 18 bucks an hour , Ralph soldum out to the private sector, now we have 5 stores every 3 blocks , and clerks making min wage or slightly higher.
Safeway did the same , if Ralph can do it so can we was their moto , they did have a union with a fair wage about 16 bucks an hr back then , now the staff makes about 10 an hr.
The registry was privatized , good paying jobs lost , altho the lineups are gone now , and so are the good wages.
Hospital care staff privatized or completely eliminated , now we have mostly philipino women working that area for a margin above poverty wages , all part time so they dont have to pay benifits like paid hollidays , double time or overtime , all put in place by the King.
Easy to brag about a surplus when you fire all your employees.

Just my 2 cents on this, but I was one of the provincial government employees that lost my job at the Motor Vehicles Branch when Ralph came into power. I paid my dues to the union, but the union didn't do a damn thing for me when I lost my job. BTW the pay wasn't that great. It wasn't hard to find another job though paying as much but without having to fork over union dues. I can also see the improvement in service that the private registry offices have over the government one that I used to work at. The line ups aren't as long and more services are offered.

Should the tax payer realistically have to pay a clerk at a liquor store $18.00 / hour? Very few retail jobs pay that kind of rate. Like private registry offices, private liquor stores offer a better selection, more convenient locations, and faster service than the government liquor stores used to. The clerks at these stores make what the job market allows for. If you owned a beer store it's unlikely that you would pay your staff $18 / hour. Why should the government, or in reality the tax payer, subsidize a high wage just because it's "union"? It's not like it's dangerous work or anything.

[Jamie]

Uhhhhh.
Bud...

You know you are in Alberta right?

Unions will never be overly respected here in Alberta.

Jamie

[Izumi]

Safeway is still unionized

[Kanonfodder]

Where were you when King Ralph lowred the boom ?
Govt liqure stores were unionized , jobs paid 18 bucks an hour , Ralph soldum out to the private sector, now we have 5 stores every 3 blocks , and clerks making min wage or slightly higher.


There were 125AGLC stores in the province so including support staff etc an average of 5 full timers and 4 pt timers thats what 1300 jobs, right now there is more that that many liquor stores which employ an avg of say 4 staff at least so thats over 5000 jobs plus we gain in convenience, selection price etc. Not to mention that all the bleating by union sheep that rampant alcoholism and youths being served didn't materialize. Sometimes private industry does the better job that bloated govenment :wave:

[TheClash]

personally i am glad that my tax dollars don't go towards running, staffing and operating stores that sell..imho..one the most destructive, abused and harmful drugs in our society. not trying to **** anyone off that drinks...to each their own...but i am glad i am not paying for the stores to run.

[Kanonfodder]

I agree to an extent but lets face it smoking is way more harmful, at least moderate use of alcohol has been proven to provide some health benefits .Can't say that about smokes. And I make my living in this industry and no I don't take it personally as it bums me out sometimes as well but sometimes free will has consequences.....besides governments make a HUGE amount of cash of taxing liquor.

[TheClash]

maybe more damaging physically to start off with.....but how many lives/marriages etc have been torn apart because of smokes? how many fights have started because a guy had one too many smokes?...not that smoke either...that i just don't understand at all.....

again...i am not trying to bash people that drink....it may be coming off like that...but i am not. sorry if i have offended. i am just glad my tax dollars aren't supporting the sales of it.

and as far as being way more harmful...not sure if i agree with that either...

[rugatika]

caused by financial woes due to ridiculously high taxes taken to pay ridiculously high government wages for government jobs that don't need to exist.

Why do I always feel the need to throw gas on the fire?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BUD. You should read the "Communist Manifesto". (Or maybe you already have). To each according to his need. From each according to his ability. or something like that.

And I agree with everyone else. Can't the socialists leave just one province (Alberta) to the capitalists and people that are willing to work for a living. Oh yeah I forgot. Socialists are parasites that require other hard working people to live off of.

[BUD]

caused by financial woes due to ridiculously high taxes taken to pay ridiculously high government wages for government jobs that don't need to exist.

Why do I always feel the need to throw gas on the fire?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

BUD. You should read the "Communist Manifesto". (Or maybe you already have). To each according to his need. From each according to his ability. or something like that.

And I agree with everyone else. Can't the socialists leave just one province (Alberta) to the capitalists and people that are willing to work for a living. Oh yeah I forgot. Socialists are parasites that require other hard working people to live off of.

Dont know where you got your definition of a socialist , but your so wrong you think your right.
A socialist or socialists are ordinary people like you and l , hard working people who are just tired of being used for cheap labour by the wealthy kings of the world .
A socialist wants pension plans and paid sick days , and paid overtime at 1 1/2 and 2 time for working their day off.
They want paid vacations , its no vacation if you cant afford it.
A socialist wants welfare for the poor or handicapped , and a fair wage for a fair days work.
A socialist is a hard worker who just wants his fair share of the pie that he helped make.
A CAPITALIST is a multi billionare who thinks he can rule the world and treat the working class like slaves , have us all part time with no benifits , it was workers who abled him to become a billionaire in the first place.
Workers are the worlds socialists and without us there would be nothing.
A smart billionare cant build his factorys without us , no matter how smart he is.
I see also that the Capitalist party in Alberta has only been elected for a week and already they,ve hidden $25,000,000 given to them by the Feds for child care, has somehow disapeared into gen revenue where it will be used for likely self gain by investments overseas , my, Capitalisum is a great thing.

[Mintaka]

.

[BUD]

OK you guys are really scaring me now.
Bud, you've obviously been around for a while, with age comes wisdom and history repeates itself.

Live better, work union.

Well said , yes it does , every 200 years in fact, now we can close this post , haaaaaa.

[Shrubs]

The day I started hating unions is when my little brother came home from his union job (bagging groceries after school and weekends) and told me that they had increased the starting wage.

The new starting wage was the same as what he was making after 2 years of set increases. He figured that he should be making more than the guy that just got hired but they wouldn't give him a raise, he had to wait for the next scheduled increase.

[rugatika]

"Socialism refers to a broad array of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community.[1] This control may be either direct—exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils—or indirect—exercised on behalf of the people by the state. As an economic system, socialism is often characterized by state, worker, or community ownership of the means of production, goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties and governments throughout history." from wikipedia

"See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime." - Frederic Bastiat

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent ... the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Justice Louis Brandeis, United States Supreme Court

"The liberty to have and hold property is not one that [today's so-called 'Liberals'] recognize. They believe only in the liberty to envy, hate and loot the man who has it." - H. L. Mencken

BUD, please reread your post. "Welfare for the poor"?? I may have been wrong calling you a socialist. You might be a full blown communist.

"A Capitalist is a multi-billionaire..."?? WTF. A kid selling lemonade is a capitalist. Personal wealth has nothing to do with capitalism.

"Bud, you've obviously been around for a while, with age comes wisdom and history repeates itself." See above for refutation.

BUD. Please don't take any offence, but I really think you should take a closer look at your personal beliefs and compare them with other successful communist regimes...oh wait...there haven't been any successful communist regimes. As I said before...Communism/socialism requires the hard work of capitalists to create wealth which these parasites can then claim for their own. Seriously though BUD...you would do well to study some political and economic theory before you step into the voting booth next time around.

Thanks

[Copidosoma]

Dont know where you got your definition of a socialist , but your so wrong you think your right.
A socialist or socialists are ordinary people like you and l , hard working people who are just tired of being used for cheap labour by the wealthy kings of the world .
A socialist wants pension plans and paid sick days , and paid overtime at 1 1/2 and 2 time for working their day off.
They want paid vacations , its no vacation if you cant afford it.
A socialist wants welfare for the poor or handicapped , and a fair wage for a fair days work.
A socialist is a hard worker who just wants his fair share of the pie that he helped make.
A CAPITALIST is a multi billionare who thinks he can rule the world and treat the working class like slaves , have us all part time with no benifits , it was workers who abled him to become a billionaire in the first place.
Workers are the worlds socialists and without us there would be nothing.
A smart billionare cant build his factorys without us , no matter how smart he is.
I see also that the Capitalist party in Alberta has only been elected for a week and already they,ve hidden $25,000,000 given to them by the Feds for child care, has somehow disapeared into gen revenue where it will be used for likely self gain by investments overseas , my, Capitalisum is a great thing.

Hey Bud,

You forgot one...

A socialist is a person who views the world through the prism of early industrialization or serfdom/monarchy. He/she hasn't grasped the reality that things have progressed past this point. It worked for Marx and Lenin because that is the world they lived in. Time to move along.

A smart socialist can't run a factory (except maybe into the ground) without a smart capitalist to raise funds to develop that factory and keep it efficient and relevant. A smart socialist can become a billionaire too except his model doesn't give him any incentive to do so.The smart capitalist can probably spell better too.;)

Nobody's model is perfect (no model works in reality perfectly) so lets get off this pointless mud slinging line of discussion shall we?

Or not, your choice.

[Okotokian]

A socialist wants pension plans and paid sick days , and paid overtime at 1 1/2 and 2 time for working their day off.
They want paid vacations , its no vacation if you cant afford it.
A socialist wants welfare for the poor or handicapped , and a fair wage for a fair days work.
A socialist is a hard worker who just wants his fair share of the pie that he helped make.
.

Ummmmm... most of us have this and more here in Capitalist Alberta. Oh, and don't forget Bud, most of us "comrade workers" also have stock in those evil capitalist slave systems in our pension funds and RRSP's.... I don't know about you, but corporate profit works for me, and apparently most of the downtrodden workers here on this board with their 4-wheel drive trucks, travel trailers, ATV's and thousands of dollars in hunting equipment. ;)

Could the poor be helped out with a higher tax exemption, some more affordable housing, etc.? Sure, but come on... get real man. I'd rather be poor in Alberta than middle class in Cuba, China, North Korea.....

[Okotokian]

hey Bud, my first degree was in Political Science too, so I feel for ya... but then I got another one I could make a living with! ;)

Just teasing ya man. I couldn't disagree with you more, but Kudos for standing up for your beliefs. :)

[Rusty P. Bucket]

I have worked on both sides of the union and have been left with one thought on the matter:

NEVER AGAIN.

Unions, in my case anyways, limited by opportunities to advance, jeapordized my job security, and protected some of the worst pooch-screwers alive. I too lost a cushy union job thanks to King Ralph - and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I went back to school, got an education, and started negotiating my own deals with employers rather than having somebody else doing it for me.

My personal feeling is that in today's day and age, unions are pretty much unnecessary and obsolete. They darn near destroyed Dodge and they are killing GM off as we speak. I personally would rather have a paying job at 32 bucks an hour than be unemployed and holding out for a wage of 48 bucks an hour.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.