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View Full Version : Cross Bows (i Know.. I Know)


tallguy
03-05-2008, 01:27 PM
After seeing Jamies "did you vote" thread, i would like to see what the majority of us say on the issue of hunting with cross bows in the archery season. No more opinions on right or wrong, just the numbers.
lets see what happens...

tallguy
03-05-2008, 01:39 PM
tell you friends! the polls are open!

Okotokian
03-05-2008, 01:44 PM
Not sure the point of this. The x-bow guys will all say yes, most of the bow guys will say no, and guys like me who have no skin in the game on either will probably say yes, though most will be uninformed. Guess it's another chance to renew hostilities :lol:

tallguy
03-05-2008, 01:46 PM
acctually its to put the hostilities to bed!:lol:
k, seriously, no more posts...JUST VOTE!

tallguy
03-05-2008, 02:54 PM
52 veiws and only 21 votes hey...

Smoke-eater
03-05-2008, 03:03 PM
Ill put a vote in if you tell us all whats the point of this? Are you really the head of fish and wildlife and basing your desision on opening crossbows to bow season for 2008??

tallguy
03-05-2008, 03:10 PM
im hoping insdead of having everyone give their opinion on it, maybee we can get a CONSTUCTIVE answer to this question.
this obviously is not an official poll, but if alot of people vote in favor- a petition will be organized to be sent to the powers that be.
numbers matter - opinions dont.

Smoke-eater
03-05-2008, 03:12 PM
How many other provinces right now allow crossbows durring bow season?

tallguy
03-05-2008, 03:16 PM
does it matter?

Smoke-eater
03-05-2008, 03:24 PM
i think it would help with your cause. Have you looked into why they dont allow it now? And this is kind of an unfair poll. There are way more rifle hunters then bow only hunters out there. What rifle hunter isnt going to say yes. Just think of all the hunting they could do with only 10 or 15 mins of practice with a cross bow. You would never have to apply for draw hunting again!!! I think your wating your time but to each their own. And good luck!

tallguy
03-05-2008, 03:29 PM
To each their own...

ljbb
03-05-2008, 06:52 PM
If the cross bow poll shows that they are in favor, of have them during archery season, will we be able to get longer archery season and push the rifle hunter to shorter seasons. Numbers talk so if we get high numbers for archery season with cross bows included, we should be able to get longer archery seasons? Watch for those double edge swords.

bruceba
03-05-2008, 06:56 PM
PM me my vote can be bought:innocent:

Jamie
03-05-2008, 08:55 PM
If the cross bow poll shows that they are in favor, of have them during archery season, will we be able to get longer archery season and push the rifle hunter to shorter seasons. Numbers talk so if we get high numbers for archery season with cross bows included, we should be able to get longer archery seasons? Watch for those double edge swords.

Why would you need a longer season? Not that I wouldnt appreciate it.
But a tag is a tag. Once you close it, you cant open it again. There is no need to take up additional time from any group. Just put the X-Bow where it belongs.

Jamie

ljbb
03-05-2008, 09:13 PM
Jamie you hit the nail on the head. You said it and cross bows are put in the season they belong to . Rifle season. Thanks for clear up your stance on were cross bow should be.

Rob Miskosky
03-05-2008, 09:15 PM
Let's see... an ethical shot with a crossbow would be around 50-yards, tops. With a rifle, 200-yards plus.

Rifle season? Many would beg to differ.

Alberta-bound
03-05-2008, 09:37 PM
Im from Ontario,, crossbows are allowed here during archery season. Id say there is a 60-40 split between compound bow and crossbow users. I havent seen anyone there complain about people using one or the other during archery season.. Honestly,, if someone buys a compound bow and has it set-up properly,, you can be just as accurate in the so called 15 minutes of practice time! And I disagree with the 50 yard ethical shot with a crossbow,, its within yards of what a compound bows ethical range is. A bolt slows down a whole lot faster than a regular arrow does and penetration is much less. It all boils down too... with archery equipment you have too get within 35 yards without being noticed too kill an animal,, be it compound bow or crossbow!

ljbb
03-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Again another person who is correct. An ethical shot with a cross bow fifty yards, but wait - you just stood there for five minutes with your cross bow loaded ready to shoot. I stood there with my bow waiting for a shot. The animal shows up i have to draw, it see's me lift my arm, draw my bow and runs. While with a cross bow or rifle, click off the safety, aim ethically of course, and shoot. Do you see the difference, if not, this season don't load your gun or cross bow untill the animal is under 30 yards . Thanks and good luck.

Jamie
03-05-2008, 10:14 PM
So LJ

What you are saying is that Bows are unethical. and that perhaps we should use the most effective and humane weapon we can. God forbid that someone would rush a shot with a regular bow as you have clearly stated could happen.
WHEW thanks for straighten this out. Where can I send your subscription of the Cross Bows annual?

Jamie

Rob Miskosky
03-05-2008, 10:35 PM
ljbb, the crossbow is a heavy cumbersome weapon. You make it sound like it is at one's shoulder waiting for the arrow to be released. Fact of the matter is, it has to be raised - just as a bow does - and only then can the arrow be released. Sounds pretty similar to me.

chuck
03-05-2008, 10:44 PM
If a crossbow is to be used during bow season, all zones and species that currently require a draw for a rifle should then require a draw during the bow season.

Rob Miskosky
03-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Why?

Smoke-eater
03-05-2008, 10:56 PM
see what you started tallguy....

ljbb
03-05-2008, 11:02 PM
Well seems to me that i may have struck a nerve with a couple of you. Thanks again. I do share the same passion for hunting as you two, and hope that your cross bow are still used during rifle season. So get your guys togetther form your self and assocation and do the work the same as the aba has done for the past history. Dont just jump in and tell people that you want anew weapon in seasons that they have fought tooth and nail for. Join the aba convience them and other hunters why crossbows should be allowed. Rob go out get your cross bow cock it lean it against atree out side for three minutes set it down. Walk back in your house pick up you compound or recurve pull it back hold it steady for three minutes. Then tell me which one would of been easier to shoot. Jamie where in alberta can you send for your crossbow annual, no where but i can get you a alberta bowhunter assocation memebership. Thanks both of you for making clear that i will keep shooting a compound , because i still do enjoy the challenge.

Rob Miskosky
03-05-2008, 11:21 PM
I could get into this discussion with you ljbb but it has been discussed over and over in a previous thread stickied on this forum. I own a crossbow and have hunted with a bow as well. Neither get me real excited, I prefer things that go bang!

Hunting with a crossbow is a pain in the butt. Try walking through the bush with a big, heavy "Tee" over your shoulder or in front of you body, and make damn sure there isn't a branch in your way when you release your arrow - it's a good way to get a broken jaw. I just believe that the proper tool should be used during the proper season. Not sure why a crossbow guy that needs to get within the same distance as a bow guy shouldn't be allowed the same opportunities. Hunting with a crossbow is a definite challenge.

And I do support the ABA in as many ways as I can. Heck of a good organization doing good work in Alberta.

Rocks
03-06-2008, 03:32 AM
And I do support the ABA in as many ways as I can. Heck of a good organization doing good work in Alberta.

And the ABA's position on crossbow hunting is what?

chuck
03-06-2008, 07:51 AM
Why?

Because in at least some zones down south, the bow harvest IMO and in the opinion of others is already excessive. This would put more guys in the field during that season. And yes I've hunted and killed with a bow quite a bit.

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Thanks for all the comments guys, its nice to see passion, both for and against this.

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:04 AM
Im from Ontario,, crossbows are allowed here during archery season. Id say there is a 60-40 split between compound bow and crossbow users. I havent seen anyone there complain about people using one or the other during archery season.. Honestly,, if someone buys a compound bow and has it set-up properly,, you can be just as accurate in the so called 15 minutes of practice time! And I disagree with the 50 yard ethical shot with a crossbow,, its within yards of what a compound bows ethical range is. A bolt slows down a whole lot faster than a regular arrow does and penetration is much less. It all boils down too... with archery equipment you have too get within 35 yards without being noticed too kill an animal,, be it compound bow or crossbow!


well said AB. well said...

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:05 AM
ljbb, the crossbow is a heavy cumbersome weapon. You make it sound like it is at one's shoulder waiting for the arrow to be released. Fact of the matter is, it has to be raised - just as a bow does - and only then can the arrow be released. Sounds pretty similar to me.


My thoughts exactl Rob, thanks for the support.

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:07 AM
now lets see somemore votes! tell all your friends, for or against.:wave:

lazy ike
03-06-2008, 08:37 AM
I don't hunt bow but I can appreciate that there is a big difference between an x-bow and a compound or long bow.

Wmu 312, Sept 5-Nov 30

Looks like 12 weeks of hunting broken with 2 weapon specific seasons. I would love to see the 12 weeks divided equally into 3 possibly 4 weapon specific seasons.

lazy ike
03-06-2008, 08:38 AM
I voted No. I want an x-bow only season.

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Websters dictionary defines archery as:

Main Entry: ar·chery
Pronunciation: \ˈär-chə-rē\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : the art, practice, or skill of shooting with bow and arrow


No mention of said bow being verticle or horizontle, finger released or mechanized

tallguy
03-06-2008, 08:41 AM
I voted No. I want an x-bow only season.

thanks for your vote LI
:)

Stinky Coyote
03-06-2008, 08:53 AM
Because in at least some zones down south, the bow harvest IMO and in the opinion of others is already excessive. This would put more guys in the field during that season. And yes I've hunted and killed with a bow quite a bit.

so the rest get to suffer because of a few selfish?


c'mon....like they aren't going to go on draw anyhow....they are so closely related that the guys are gonna get them whether its allowed or not so get ready for more draws

having said that....put it where it fits for all Alberta's hunters benefit....or leave as is so we can keep a few trophy mule deer hunters down south happy?

duh

tallguy
03-06-2008, 09:00 AM
did you vote SC?

If so, thanks!

Shrubs
03-06-2008, 10:10 AM
Ive been kind of torn over this one for the last while. My only beef with putting crossbows in archery season is the learning curve. Any one who bowhunts knows it can be a lot of work from the green to hunting stage. A crossbow well you can pick up and shoot, I know because I've done it.

But you still have to get close with both and there is where I can't decide if a crossbow would be any harm if added to the archery season. I can see a lot of rifle hunters buying a cross bow and then hanging them up after a season or two because getting really close to game isn't always easy when your used to shooting them at 300 yrds.

Jamie
03-06-2008, 10:26 AM
Well seems to me that i may have struck a nerve with a couple of you. Thanks again. I do share the same passion for hunting as you two, and hope that your cross bow are still used during rifle season. So get your guys togetther form your self and assocation and do the work the same as the aba has done for the past history. Dont just jump in and tell people that you want anew weapon in seasons that they have fought tooth and nail for. Join the aba convience them and other hunters why crossbows should be allowed. Rob go out get your cross bow cock it lean it against atree out side for three minutes set it down. Walk back in your house pick up you compound or recurve pull it back hold it steady for three minutes. Then tell me which one would of been easier to shoot. Jamie where in alberta can you send for your crossbow annual, no where but i can get you a alberta bowhunter assocation memebership. Thanks both of you for making clear that i will keep shooting a compound , because i still do enjoy the challenge.

LJ. exactly what you have said is part of the problem. The Archery season is not the sole domain of the ABA. Its not YOURS and YOURS alone. It belongs to all hunters in the province. Your sentiments are exactly why I think its a very selfish stance.
And for the record, I do not own a X-Bow, but I did Bow Hunt. I doubt if X-bows came into more favor, that I would go out and buy one. I just think it is ludicrous that they are not included in the Bow Season.

Jamie

albertadave
03-06-2008, 10:32 AM
Ive been kind of torn over this one for the last while. My only beef with putting crossbows in archery season is the learning curve. Any one who bowhunts knows it can be a lot of work from the green to hunting stage. A crossbow well you can pick up and shoot, I know because I've done it.

But that's a good thing, isn't it? A green archery hunter, would be much better with a cross bow in his hands that he's only shot a few times, than a regular bow with the same amount of practice, if in fact they are that easy to learn to shoot (I've never shot one) Note: I'm not saying new hunters should do this, but you've got to know it happens.

nekred
03-06-2008, 11:20 AM
There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.

ABA chose to stay with ideals of Pope and Young for the Archery season (Drawn and held by muscular power). The choice was made and crossbows were available then.

If crossbow users want a season then they should lobby for their own. In the long run it would be far more effective than wimping, whining, complaining, debating, arguing etc on an online forum about it. Go do what the ABA did when archery tackle was not legal period!

ABA has made their position clear and have the majority of say about what hapens in archery seasons.

I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!

tallguy
03-06-2008, 11:31 AM
There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.

ABA chose to stay with ideals of Pope and Young for the Archery season (Drawn and held by muscular power). The choice was made and crossbows were available then.

If crossbow users want a season then they should lobby for their own. In the long run it would be far more effective than wimping, whining, complaining, debating, arguing etc on an online forum about it. Go do what the ABA did when archery tackle was not legal period!

ABA has made their position clear and have the majority of say about what hapens in archery seasons.

I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!


lobbying for change is exactly what im doing here- a petition will follow shortly both E form as well as paper hard copy. Gotta love democracy!:)

nekred
03-06-2008, 01:19 PM
when I said lobby for your own season I don't mean lobby to piggyback onto another season. they are already in an existing season.....The general season.

For any change to happen in the archery season the original stakeholder association has to be involved....ABA.

Or are you thinking of a backroom Open Spaces kind of thing!

What group do you represent. What association have you formed.

Going to SRD with the results of an online poll in a specific website that is privately owned and run is not very credible!.

Petitions are not worth the paper they are written on. However an association of people dedicated to a cause with commitment of their interest in the form of a membership fee however does work. That is how the archery season came about.

Even your flawed online poll because it is a biased audience shows there is significant opposition to the idea!.... Where is the win for the government representative. they stay in power by not ticking people off and that is why when there is an item with more than 35% opposition they are very careful!.

Anyways good luck and fill your boots.

In case you are wondering that has already been done!.... It is nothing new!

Stinky Coyote
03-06-2008, 01:57 PM
Yes i voted.


I agree the ABA stance is a selfish stance. But so is the stance for crossbows in the archery season!

Nekred....if selfish for more opportunities that make 100% sense for ALL Albertans including the young, old, and, brokedown? Then yup.....guilty as charged.

There would not have been an archery season if the ABA did not lobby for one.


Nekred again,

Bull. Someone else would have done it by now...sport is way too big. Thanks ABA, it was a good start, but now that we've moved into the next millenium and learned more about the 'snake', we find its not such a bad thing and fits somewhere more beneficial to all hunters in Alberta. Can't blame the ABA for its stance really, old school and selfish, but hey it is 2008 now, it IS the future, we can get with the times....i just know it.:D

Now back to Chuck again,

This would put more guys in the field during that season.

Chuck, do you realize what your saying here?????

Hunting sports and recruits apparently shrinking and your all for it????? You don't mind to see it gone altogether? Because if we keep thinking selfish like this then we haven't got a hope.

Thats exactly the selfishness supported by the ABA...kind of sickening really. Its just a deer with horns dude...wait for your draw and shoot does in the mean time.....you got a problem with does?....hunting is about more than just a set of horns okay!

And of course that is if the muley buck is already close to going on draw in the zones your talking about then you think the buck won't go on draw if you can keep the crossbow out????? Really????? You believe that??????:rolleye2:

Okotokian
03-06-2008, 01:58 PM
I'd been under the apparently incorrect impression (which wouldn't be hard for me of course LOL) that a separate bow season was created in part because of safety concerns, which would be exactly the same with cross-bows. Unless you want very short two or three week seasons for every weapon anyone would want to use (bow, cross bow, shotgun, centerfire, slingshot LOL) it seems to be there is going to have to be some overlap, and overlapping bow and cross bow makes the most sense to me. You may be right that they are not the same in terms of skill level, etc., but they are closer than any other two weapons in terms of capability and how you would hunt with them.

I also envy that almost two month season... Wonder how many bow hunters there are vis-a-vis crossbowers or rifle hunters to warrant such a generous allocation?

Stinky Coyote
03-06-2008, 02:00 PM
What are the numbers of bowhunters vs gunhunters in this province? Anyone know? I thought it was like 100,000 hunters total and maybe 10,000 bow permits sold? Can anyone verify?

nekred
03-06-2008, 03:43 PM
You know the sandbox was built, established and defined by the ABA.

Now everyone wants to change the rules to play in it!

All I am saying is do the work, put in the effort and make your own sandbox!

Instead of trying to unsuccessfully lobby for a change in the rules, why not make a crossbow association and lobby for a crossbow only season. Then when the compound archers want to use your season then you can use the same arguments as turnabout!.... No I would just buy a crossbow!...and hunt in every season I could!...

But then we would have one less thing to debate!......

chuck
03-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Chuck, do you realize what your saying here?????

Hunting sports and recruits apparently shrinking and your all for it????? You don't mind to see it gone altogether? Because if we keep thinking selfish like this then we haven't got a hope.

Thats exactly the selfishness supported by the ABA...kind of sickening really. Its just a deer with horns dude...wait for your draw and shoot does in the mean time.....you got a problem with does?....hunting is about more than just a set of horns okay!

And of course that is if the muley buck is already close to going on draw in the zones your talking about then you think the buck won't go on draw if you can keep the crossbow out????? Really????? You believe that??????


Dude!

I'm talking harvest numbers here, and last time I checked we're trying to manage our wildlife. I wait five years to draw for a Mule Deer because we have decided that that helps with trophy and herd management. So as an example, that zone that delegates 22 mule deer tags for harvest with a rifle but allows general bow hunting is getting pressure and kill numbers from those bowhunters in excess of the delegated rifle tags. When that happens, it needs to go to a draw for bow tags. Adding cross bow hunters to the bow season exacerbates that problem of over harvest in a given zone. Delegate tags through a draw, wait your turn, and hunt with any type of bow you wish.

It has bugger all to do with your above wildly flung rant.

Rusty P. Bucket
03-06-2008, 04:40 PM
I voted yes. Crossbows are cool and being able to hunt with one would be an excuse to buy one.

The hell of it is that between the archery, the shotguns, the rifles, the .22's, the pistols (big bore and small)...I would have to quit my job to maintain any proficiency with them all.

I never thought I would see the day when I had too many toys and not enough time to play with them all.

Maybe I should have voted 'no'. :(

Hoochie Papa
03-06-2008, 06:43 PM
I want to ask a question to those who want to hunt with x bow in bow season. Only to satisfy my own curiosity- not to start anything.

If you want to hunt during the bow season, why don't you hunt with a bow?

Obviously medical and physical reasons don't need to be mentioned, but if you are an able bodied person who is physically capable of shooting a bow, what is the reason you don't?

ljbb
03-06-2008, 06:55 PM
Jamie are you a aba memeber. If yes great, you have seen what they have done for bowhunters. If not keep bow hunting and be thankful for the people that have put you in the postition you are in.

archdlx
03-06-2008, 07:01 PM
In the late '70's you could find me north of Edgerton, "controlling" the gopher pop. with an old hung pulley bow. Then in the '80's I got a Browning, took 1 mule doe. In the '90's, traded for a Xi Flatliner. WOW what a bow...for the time. Then tore some tendons in my left shoulder. Still have the bows.....would like to go again, but would hate to screw up my shoulder again. It is NOT bad enough to warrant a medical exemption, so I think being able to use a crossbow would be great. My wife can't shoot high power rifles anymore-bursitis-and can't take the cold-I know she would enjoy getting back out to hunt....not just to watch.

sorry for the long .02 cents....
archdlx

Jamie
03-06-2008, 07:10 PM
Jamie are you a aba memeber. If yes great, you have seen what they have done for bowhunters. If not keep bow hunting and be thankful for the people that have put you in the postition you are in.

LJ...I have already stated, I dont Bow Hunt anymore. I would hope the ABA is not filled with gready small minded folks. Like I said before keep up with the my way or the highway routine and people like yourself will find they are hunting shoulder to shoulder with rifle hunters, You guys have to open the vault a bit.


Jamie

ljbb
03-06-2008, 07:33 PM
Jamie come out to the aba banquet at the end of march and see if we are small minded people. Be ready to have your eyes open to an assocation that promotes youth hunting more then any other group. Lobbyies the goverment for the benifit of all hunting and much more. Jamie i hunt right now shoulder to shoulder with rifle hunter, but i pack archery equipment. I can appreciate your efforts, but you must see where we come from also. It took years to get archery season,s, open zone where the wanted to close them for any hunting. So keep up your efforts for the cross bows and some day you might be the president of tha alberta cross bow assocation. Thanks for the discussion , hope to see ya at the banquet.

Shrubs
03-07-2008, 10:35 AM
But that's a good thing, isn't it? A green archery hunter, would be much better with a cross bow in his hands that he's only shot a few times, than a regular bow with the same amount of practice, if in fact they are that easy to learn to shoot (I've never shot one) Note: I'm not saying new hunters should do this, but you've got to know it happens.

You know that's a good point but at the same time that maybe boils down to an ethics dilemma more than ability.

Personally I wouldn't care if every hunter in the province took up archery hunting, it would be every hunters right. Every bowhunter knows that archery season is a special time with great oppurtunities, not so skiddish game and worth the time to learn to shoot a bow.

I guess with that I kinda lean towards not having them in archery season but I wouldn't make a big fuss about it if they did either.

Okotokian
03-07-2008, 01:47 PM
Instead of trying to unsuccessfully lobby for a change in the rules,

So far.... LOL

I've got a question. Why do bow hunters get a season much longer than rifle hunters? I would guess the latter are by far a much larger group. Seems preferential to me, and yet they don't want to share that time with cross bow hunters. Why am I restricted to a month as a rifle hunter?

nekred
03-07-2008, 03:02 PM
Because the harvest rate is lower in bow season so there is a longer season.

That is the crux of the matter more hunters in archery season would result in more harvests which would shorten season.

The fear is that allowing the crossbow in would cause a large influx of hunters transferring to archery season thereby reducing archery seasons.

If people want to use a compound bow which is more in line with the spirit of the original group that lobbied for the season to access the archery season that is fine.

In reality i don't think the crossbow users want to expend the effort necessary to successfully lobby for a season because there is not a strong grassroot support base as there was when the archery seasons were first created.

Muzzle loaders successfully lobbied.

Of course crossbow users could prove me wrong by lobbying for and getting their own season!

Jamie
03-07-2008, 03:34 PM
[quote=nekred;121006]
The fear is that allowing the crossbow in would cause a large influx of hunters transferring to archery season thereby reducing archery seasons.


[quote]

WOW..
This really says a bunch.
Talk about closed minded. On the selfish meter this equals at least 110%
God forbid we actually had more people out in the field at all times of the year.

I am hearing that in the coming years, X-Bows will be allowed in YOUR season.. Move over.. Your going to start sharing weather you like it or not.

Jamie

Jamie
03-07-2008, 04:09 PM
So let me get this straight.
Some of you BOW guys want the X-Bow guys to go get there own season.

So this is how I see it working if thats what your really want.
Hunting will only be open in Alberta for approx 3 months of the year.
The Bow guys have approx 2 of the 3 months.
Where do you think the extra month is going to come from?

In essence you guys will be giving up approx 1/2 of your time.
Cause if your not willing to share your season, shouldn't the x-Bow guys be of the same mind set? Great way to stay in Biz.....

(note this is about southern Alberta and the generous seasons already in place)

I have been at the ABA web site and read over most of the old threads. There is actually proof that shows the number of deer harvested only increases by 2% when X-bows are used along side Regular bows.

So whats the BIG FRICKIN DEAL?
Its not about the equipment, its about the hunter.
And the more hunters we have in the field throughout the fall and winter months, the better off we all will be.

Jamie

nekred
03-07-2008, 04:32 PM
I am not representing any group at all with what I am saying. It is not some bow guys it is me, myself, and I. It is a suggestion that is all.

Why force a closed issue where there is a lot of opposition when there is another avenue that cross bow users are not taking.

A crossbow uses a draw lock device which is not in line with Pope and Young's definition of rules of fair chase which is the spirit of what the Alberta Archery seasons approximate.

This like pushing a rope!.. for both sides! It is the number of hunters in the season which would lead to greater harvest rates not just the tool.

The definition of archery tackle to be used in archery seasin in alberta has been decided a long time ago and crossbows were available then. Nothing has changed in the tool or equipment to suggest a need for a change.

The stats shown are biased and flawed on both sides because they are not applicable in Alberta because the wildlife numbers, hunter numbers, regulations, seasons, and politics are totally different.

nekred
03-07-2008, 04:40 PM
For example georgia where one of the studies was done, there are 60 deer per square mile on average. In one study area there are 75 deer per square mile!

Compared to alberta that is a huge variation so when it comes to hnter success surveys results will be different between here and there regardless of tool. And crossbows are not allowed there in rifle season!

comparing apples to hockey pucks!

Alberta-bound
03-07-2008, 06:28 PM
IMHO The people most behind the crossbow issue are a bunch of whiners and snivelers looking for an excuse to jump on an existing season by forcing an issue which has already been resolved.

Only person I see consistantly whining and snivelling on this thread,, is YOU!!!



QUOTE=nekred;121027]A crossbow uses a draw lock device which is not in line with Pope and Young's definition of rules of fair chase which is the spirit of what the Alberta Archery seasons approximate.[/QUOTE]

What makes Pope and Young the be all and end all of archery hunting? Because you cant get into the record books if you shoot an X-bow? big deal,, if you choose to use an Xbow you really dont care about getting in the record books. How many guys that hunt with rifles never have their deer officially scored by B&C.. Most, just because they dont care if they ever get into the record books.. Its not always about records,, and if it is your hunting for the wrong reasons,, its about getting together with your buddies having some fun and putting some meat in the freezer!

Jamie
03-07-2008, 06:41 PM
I am not representing any group at all with what I am saying. It is not some bow guys it is me, myself, and I. It is a suggestion that is all.Fair enough

Why force a closed issue where there is a lot of opposition when there is another avenue that cross bow users are not taking.Sorry, the season will not be overly extended, we have approx 3 months and Bow guys are using 2/3 of it

A crossbow uses a draw lock device which is not in line with Pope and Young's definition of rules of fair chase which is the spirit of what the Alberta Archery seasons approximate.Since when did the sun rise and fall on P&Y's azz? It seems as if there are a lot of people out there who do not follow that definition of fair chase. I use higher % let off bows for example

This like pushing a rope!.. for both sides! It is the number of hunters in the season which would lead to greater harvest rates not just the tool.Overall #'s are what I am referring to. like I said we only have one male tag each

The definition of archery tackle to be used in archery seasin in alberta has been decided a long time ago and crossbows were available then. Nothing has changed in the tool or equipment to suggest a need for a change.Now that shows some far sighted thinking... Things change.. Get over it.

The stats shown are biased and flawed on both sides because they are not applicable in Alberta because the wildlife numbers, hunter numbers, regulations, seasons, and politics are totally different.Just because I speak of stats you don't agree with doesn't make them wrong. I think I could trot out stats till I was blue in the face, and you would still say there were wrong

I ask again.. what are you afraid of? More competition for access? Less deer? More people in the field? I just don't get it

Jamie

Shrubs
03-07-2008, 06:50 PM
Lots of good points being brought up in this thread, makes a guy think.

catnthehat
03-07-2008, 09:34 PM
What's wrong with hunting with a crossbow in the rifle season?

As far as the P&Y goes, I was always on the fence as to their max let off rules for entering , for a few reasons, non of which I will discuss here because it doesn't matter to me.
Those archers who use a higher percentage let off can enter their deer in other books.

Cat

ljbb
03-07-2008, 09:49 PM
Jamie coming to the aba banquet?

Sputnik
03-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Hey Mods,

Isn't this why we now have an ARCHERY forum. How about moving this where the interested parties can fume over it!

Jamie
03-08-2008, 03:13 AM
Jamie coming to the aba banquet?

Well, I looked on the ABA's website, and I cant see any mention of 2008.

Do you have any more info? If it is here in Calgary, I would take a look at comming. I like banquets. Allways great people to talk with and usually lots of good auctions.
I have plans at this point to go to the SCI NA banquet and have already been to the AHEIA one here in Calgary.

Jamie

troller
03-08-2008, 09:07 AM
I like banquets.

I bet you do :lol:

Jamie
03-08-2008, 01:08 PM
I bet you do :lol:

HUH??
Sorry, I am not following...
Care to explain?

Jamie

Okotokian
03-08-2008, 01:48 PM
Jamie coming to the aba banquet?

Yeah, and wear a crossbow t-shirt :lol:

Okotokian
03-08-2008, 01:52 PM
I'm starting to see the light. The bow guys have got me convinced. I'm going to start campaigning for a .270 Winchester season. It really is a distinct caliber from the 30-06 or any of those horrid WSM's. And I think I'd like to get September and October exclusively. No one else in the field. You other rifle guys can just go and get your own seasons. Who's with me???? COME ON!!!!!!! :lol:

Jamie
03-08-2008, 03:43 PM
I'm starting to see the light. The bow guys have got me convinced. I'm going to start campaigning for a .270 Winchester season. It really is a distinct caliber from the 30-06 or any of those horrid WSM's. And I think I'd like to get September and October exclusively. No one else in the field. You other rifle guys can just go and get your own seasons. Who's with me???? COME ON!!!!!!! :lol:

Your right OKO..
How in gods green earth are you suppose to compete with a 30-06. Especially a Semi Auto...
What is this world comming to...
THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Jamie

catnthehat
03-08-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm starting to see the light. The bow guys have got me convinced. I'm going to start campaigning for a .270 Winchester season. It really is a distinct caliber from the 30-06 or any of those horrid WSM's. And I think I'd like to get September and October exclusively. No one else in the field. You other rifle guys can just go and get your own seasons. Who's with me???? COME ON!!!!!!! :lol:
You 270'ers can throw in with the lever action crowd - stay the *&%$ outta my
WSM season!!:mad2: :lol:
or - we can go with my original request and hunt with what we want when we want in a regular season!
Cat

lilsundance
03-08-2008, 07:51 PM
this thread has gone from bad to rediculous. Its closed.