PDA

View Full Version : Public Enemy No 1


Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 05:51 PM
Ran across this today and was just well....floored.

The old guy did what this kids parents are obviously incapable of doing....he held the brat accountable.

I just can't imagine having such a lack of integrity and pride that I'd support my kid making a complaint like this and testify against someone that had just tried to impart a life lesson that I'd failed to pass on.

Oh boo hoo the big scarey 74 year old man grabbed me by the scuff of the neck and drove me a couple blocks to the police.
If it was my kid he would have been riding the toe of my boot home from there... picking up cleaning supplies and heading straight over to that guys place to clean up the mess he made and apologize.

I hope every homeowner in that town that has had their place vandalized gets together one night and tags...toilet papers and eggs their home.
Maybe then they'd get the message.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/08/vigilante-speaks-out-about-confronting-vandals

guywiththemule
03-11-2012, 06:11 PM
Little "puke" needs a life lesson along side of his liberal parents. :snapoutofit:

RubberChicken
03-11-2012, 06:22 PM
:scared:OOOOOooooooohhhhh, it's those sssssccccarrryyyy Liberals again!!!!!!!:scared:
(Wife jumps into my arms and we run fast as we can)

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 07:07 PM
careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

Sneeze
03-11-2012, 07:14 PM
careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

haha, good one???

:scared:

jamhead
03-11-2012, 07:53 PM
The old guy did what this kids parents are obviously incapable of doing....he held the brat accountable.


Yup! If the parents didn't want this to happen to their kid, then they should have put more effort into training him up right. The kid should just be glad it was a disabled senior as the story says, and not someone with a bit more of a dark side!

Accounts like this illustrate why we need castle law here in Canada!:sign0176:

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 08:06 PM
....Accounts like this illustrate why we need castle law here in Canada!:sign0176:

how far would you like this "castle law" to extend from an abandoned property that is not yours?

greylynx
03-11-2012, 08:09 PM
Oh Pesky, the chlid was trying to express himself. After he is ritalined up and becomes a nice quiet girly-boy there will not be any more problems.

Rocky7
03-11-2012, 08:09 PM
careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

Are you on drugs?

vcmm
03-11-2012, 08:11 PM
careful what you wish for. Last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. Using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. What if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? A little sodomy will fix em. Don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? Think again.

wtf?

u_cant_rope_the_wind
03-11-2012, 08:15 PM
we really need Mr Fuji and his cane to come to this country :scared0018:
and the art of public caning should be retroactive to the great grand parents :thinking-006: :scared:

FishingMOM
03-11-2012, 08:17 PM
how far would you like this "castle law" to extend from an abandoned property that is not yours?

It was his property. The home belonged to his deceased Mother. He inherited it. He was trying to sell it. If you looked you would see that vandals also burnt down his barn on that property.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 08:21 PM
It was his property. The home belonged to his deceased Mother. He inherited it. He was trying to sell it. If you looked you would see that vandals also burnt down his barn on that property.

so your cool with an old codger grabing an 11 year old child off the street,kidnapping him and assulting him on his way to the police station? Mom? hmm

Mickey
03-11-2012, 08:21 PM
Are you on drugs?

Response of the year so far.

Exactly what I was thinking. Everyone get out the tinfoil hats.

Rocky7
03-11-2012, 08:22 PM
When I was a kid, if that old fart hauled me home for vandalizing his home, his outhouse, his shed or his house for sale down the street, I would have one thought in my mind and one only:

MAN, I HOPE DAD ISN'T HOME!

CamoDerrick
03-11-2012, 08:22 PM
so your cool with an old codger grabing an 11 year old child off the street,kidnapping him and assulting him on his way to the police station? Mom? hmm

Off the street? He was breaking into HIS house on HIS property!

Jamie
03-11-2012, 08:25 PM
careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

Personal experience????????

Lefty-Canuck
03-11-2012, 08:31 PM
When I was a kid, if that old fart hauled me home for vandalizing his home, his outhouse, his shed or his house for sale down the street, I would have one thought in my mind and one only:

MAN, I HOPE DAD ISN'T HOME!

X2.....

I would happily go to the police station .....at least my Dad couldn't punish me there....

careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

Nait I think you are adding too many "what if's" to the story....take it at face value.

The guy already had a shed burned down...and his Mother's home was being busted into....maybe he should have just called the Cops but his past experience with doing that proved unsatisfactory....a citizens arrest and taking the kid directly to the police station was appropriate in my eyes....

No need to add the creepy details of an old man being inappropriate with a child....because that never happened....

If this was your place what would you have done?....let them walk and call in a description? or protect whats yours?

LC

FishingMOM
03-11-2012, 08:31 PM
so your cool with an old codger grabing an 11 year old child off the street,kidnapping him and assulting him on his way to the police station? Mom? hmm

CRIMINAL CODE[8]
Arrest without warrant by any person
494. (1) Any one may arrest without warrant
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or
(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes
(i) has committed a criminal offence, and
(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

Arrest by owner, etc., of property
(2) Any one who is
(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or
(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,
may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

Delivery to peace officer
(3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.


if getting drug into the police station by the collar and prodding with a cane is bad, then heaven forbid my kid do such a thing cause the police cell would be the best place for a criminal! At 11 that kid knows better than to be destroying someone elses property. The parents are just as bad as the kid since they didn't know where he was or what he was into.

Good on the gentleman for standing up for himself and his property.

Albertadiver
03-11-2012, 08:31 PM
Where's that Cranky ole' B.... Redfrog when we need him?

pseelk
03-11-2012, 08:38 PM
When I was a kid, if that old fart hauled me home for vandalizing his home, his outhouse, his shed or his house for sale down the street, I would have one thought in my mind and one only:

MAN, I HOPE DAD ISN'T HOME!

Exactly,If we had a lot more of this maybe those little snots would actually learn there are consequences for your actions.IMO.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 08:41 PM
CRIMINAL CODE[8]
Arrest without warrant by any person
494. (1) Any one may arrest without warrant
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or
(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes
(i) has committed a criminal offence, and
(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

Arrest by owner, etc., of property
(2) Any one who is
(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or
(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,
may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

Delivery to peace officer
(3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.


if getting drug into the police station by the collar and prodding with a cane is bad, then heaven forbid my kid do such a thing cause the police cell would be the best place for a criminal! At 11 that kid knows better than to be destroying someone elses property. The parents are just as bad as the kid since they didn't know where he was or what he was into.

Good on the gentleman for standing up for himself and his property.

what was the criminal offence committed by the 11 year old?

vcmm
03-11-2012, 08:45 PM
Tresspassing and maybe B and E

jamhead
03-11-2012, 08:46 PM
If that is assault and kidnapping, what does it take to be called vandalism and theft?

Reading the news story, it sounds a lot more like a citizens arrest by a senior who was sick and tired of the authorities (and parents) not doing their job. At 11 years old, his parents should have had a much better idea of where the kid was and what he was doing. In their failure to do their job someone else stepped in.

When parents fail in their responsibility someone else has to do it, and if the government tries to do it, it is usually a much worse mess. If the kid would take the lesson that there are consequences to his actions it would make him a much better adult.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 08:46 PM
have the neighbours complained to the city about the abandoned boarded up building?

Kanonfodder
03-11-2012, 08:48 PM
have the neighbours complained to the city about the abandoned boarded up building?

Are you going out of the way to be dick on purpose?

vcmm
03-11-2012, 08:48 PM
have the neighbours complained to the city about the abandoned boarded up building?

So this makes what the kid did OK?:snapoutofit:

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 08:48 PM
If that is assault and kidnapping, what does it take to be called vandalism and theft?

Reading the news story, it sounds a lot more like a citizens arrest by a senior who was sick and tired of the authorities (and parents) not doing their job. At 11 years old, his parents should have had a much better idea of where the kid was and what he was doing. In their failure to do their job someone else stepped in.

When parents fail in their responsibility someone else has to do it, and if the government tries to do it, it is usually a much worse mess. If the kid would take the lesson that there are consequences to his actions it would make him a much better adult.

ya,pretty spry for a 74 year old with a cane to catch an 11 year old on foot. did he use his vehicle to apprehend the child?

Lefty-Canuck
03-11-2012, 08:48 PM
have the neighbours complained to the city about the abandoned boarded up building?

Honestly Nait,

That has nothing to do with it......the property has some old buildings on it and the property is for sale....are you saying it is ok for the local hoodlums to tresspass, break and enter, and vandalize the place? .....because the buildings are boarded up?

LC

vcmm
03-11-2012, 08:50 PM
Honestly Nait,

That has nothing to do with it......the property has some old buildings on it and the property is for sale....are you saying it is ok for the local hoodlums to tresspass, break and enter, and vandalize the place? .....because the buildings are boarded up?

LC

I guess every old farm building is game according to Nait.

HunterDave
03-11-2012, 08:55 PM
CRIMINAL CODE[8]
Arrest without warrant by any person
494. (1) Any one may arrest without warrant
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or
(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes
(i) has committed a criminal offence, and
(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

Arrest by owner, etc., of property
(2) Any one who is
(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or
(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,
may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

Delivery to peace officer
(3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.

PM Harper would like this portion of the CC of Canada to be amended.

The Citizen's Arrest and Self-Defence Act

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=3966

This legislation would expand the legal authority for a private citizen to make an arrest within a reasonable period of time after they find that person committing a criminal offence either on or in relation to their property, ensuring the proper balance between the powers of citizens and those of the police. It would also bring much-needed reforms to simplify the complex Criminal Code provisions on self-defence and defence of property, and clarify where reasonable use of force is permitted in relation to the above.

Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 09:27 PM
careful what you wish for. last thing the canadian public needs is some demented seniors out there policing the land, taking the law into their own hands. using their vehicles as weapons,running law abiding citizens off the road,lieing to police and gettiing away with it because they are old and forgetful. what if that old basterd decided to teach the kid a lesson on some back street on the way to the station? a little sodomy will fix em. don't think that kind of trash lives in canada? think again.

Well that didn't happen now did it?

The facts were spelled out in the charge.
Sure the old boy should have just nabbed the brat and called the cops but he didn't put the boots to the kid and I'm pretty sure that junior will recover.

The complaint was just a ploy to get out from under the responsibility for what he did.

And I'd argue that the last thing the Canadian public needs is more litigious antisocial little brats that have been schooled and trained on how to manipulate a system so that they can keep making victims of us all and never have to be held accountable for their actions.

Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 09:31 PM
Oh Pesky, the chlid was trying to express himself. After he is ritalined up and becomes a nice quiet girly-boy there will not be any more problems.

Yeah... that seems to be the status quo sometimes... we'll just chemically castrate the whole generation.
Everyone knows you can solve most problems by taking one drug or another.
Too bad we haven't found one to cure stupid yet though.:)

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=pesty06
I hope every homeowner in that town that has had their place vandalized gets together one night and tags...toilet papers and eggs their home.
Maybe then they'd get the message.[/QUOTE]

ya that is the mentality we want to promote here in Canada,vigilantes! i'd hate to park on the wrong side of the street in your neighbour hoods,probably come running out the house seeking justice,sighting some defunct "castle law" from the days of king ed ward. hope he only TP's my rig, as eggs are hard to clean up.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 10:12 PM
Well that didn't happen now did it?

The facts were spelled out in the charge.
Sure the old boy should have just nabbed the brat and called the cops but he didn't put the boots to the kid and I'm pretty sure that junior will recover.
.

he used at least one weapon in his apprehension of the youth, maybe two. considering it was an 11 year old anything but the spoken word is too much force,considering the situation.

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 10:20 PM
The spoken word got him no where. Maybe if.someone burns.down your dead mothers/your barn and repeatedly vandalize your property you can give them some hugs and nurture them to become a model citizen. I don't think he acted wrong at all.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 10:28 PM
The spoken word got him no where. Maybe if.someone burns.down your dead mothers/your barn and repeatedly vandalize your property you can give them some hugs and nurture them to become a model citizen. I don't think he acted wrong at all.

then he should have used his finger and dialed 911.

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 10:35 PM
So the cops could show up half an hour after they gd left and promise to keep an eye open for them. So your saying if you caught someone leaving your house you would just let them walk away?

Boxer-O
03-11-2012, 10:38 PM
Well that didn't happen now did it?

The facts were spelled out in the charge.
Sure the old boy should have just nabbed the brat and called the cops but he didn't put the boots to the kid and I'm pretty sure that junior will recover.

The complaint was just a ploy to get out from under the responsibility for what he did.

And I'd argue that the last thing the Canadian public needs is more litigious antisocial little brats that have been schooled and trained on how to manipulate a system so that they can keep making victims of us all and never have to be held accountable for their actions.


x2

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 10:42 PM
So the cops could show up half an hour after they gd left and promise to keep an eye open for them. So your saying if you caught someone leaving your house you would just let them walk away?

i don't recall seeing where this residence was noted as having anyone living in it. actually sounded like it was abandoned and boarded up. surprised the FD hasn't burnt it down.

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 10:45 PM
It was probably boarded up becaise the punk ass kids busted all the doors and windows out it. Regardless, if you own something you should be allowed to protect it. If that means embarrassing a few kids so be it.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 10:47 PM
prosecuting an 11 year old, that would be like procecution of a deaf man without an interpretor.

vcmm
03-11-2012, 10:48 PM
It was probably boarded up becaise the punk ass kids busted all the doors and windows out it. Regardless, if you own something you should be allowed to protect it. If that means embarrassing a few kids so be it.

Your wasting your breath/typing lee.

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 10:54 PM
If you can't beat em, join em.

Let's just put all our problems on someone else and let someone else defend you. The government and law enforcement are modern day Jesus and will lead us to the promise land of unicorns and rainbows. Let's not hurt any feelings.



Btw, no.disrespect to huntinstuff lol

Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 10:57 PM
then he should have used his finger and dialed 911.


You been picking fly crap out of pepper on this from the start.

The facts are known and established in this case and guess what...we have laws to deal with the what if's... if they actually occur but fine you win.

We should lock up that crippled up old bugger and throw away the key.
We should seize his assets... auction it all off and get little traumatized Johnny the best therapist money can buy, a lifetime supply of ice cream and all the spray paint he wants.

We need another law that dictates we (society) should get out of the way of anyone that is self entitled and especially self entitled minors.
We should allow our rights to be infringed upon because Johnny...the poor misunderstood lamb is just not hardy enough to deal with responsibility.
Good golly we wouldn't want his self esteem jeopardized by pointing out his faults or failings would we? God forbid we do anything more than tisk tisk and stare at our toes when children misbehave.
Whatever we do we must take pains to ensure that nobody is forced to conform to societal norms.

We can even name the new law after you so everyone will know who to thank when they find themselves stripped of the most basic right to defend property using reasonable force if necessary....

Then...10 or so years from now we can make up for it by throwing Johnny into the pen with a minimum sentence where he can meet all kinds of those bad people you seem to think the law is protecting him from now...by busting that old man.

There...happy?

:)

vcmm
03-11-2012, 11:02 PM
:sHa_shakeshout:

Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 11:03 PM
then he should have used his finger and dialed 911.


Oops duplicate post....

Pudelpointer
03-11-2012, 11:07 PM
so your cool with an old codger grabing an 11 year old child off the street,kidnapping him and assulting him on his way to the police station? Mom? hmm

I am good with it. Keep your 11 year old under control and everything will be just fine.


Seriously Nait, did you grow up in Montreal or something? Or is it the drugs?

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 11:24 PM
You been picking fly crap out of pepper on this from the start.

The facts are known and established in this case and guess what...we have laws to deal with the what if's... if they actually occur but fine you win.

We should lock up that crippled up old bugger and throw away the key.
We should seize his assets... auction it all off and get little traumatized Johnny the best therapist money can buy, a lifetime supply of ice cream and all the spray paint he wants.

We need another law that dictates we (society) should get out of the way of anyone that is self entitled and especially self entitled minors.
We should allow our rights to be infringed upon because Johnny...the poor misunderstood lamb is just not hardy enough to deal with responsibility.
Good golly we wouldn't want his self esteem jeopardized by pointing out his faults or failings would we? God forbid we do anything more than tisk tisk and stare at our toes when children misbehave.
Whatever we do we must take pains to ensure that nobody is forced to conform to societal norms.

We can even name the new law after you so everyone will know who to thank when they find themselves stripped of the most basic right to defend property using reasonable force if necessary....

Then...10 or so years from now we can make up for it by throwing Johnny into the pen with a minimum sentence where he can meet all kinds of those bad people you seem to think the law is protecting him from now...by busting that old man.

There...happy?

:)

when you side steped the charter and laws written in an attempt to enforce your social justice or your vision of what canadian law should be,"because you can", you have declared civil war. a deliberate act and far beyond being a vigilanti. think no one is watchin ya? think again!

Twisted Canuck
03-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Hey Nait, was that your kid that got collared and hauled off by the nasty old man or what? You've thrown so many 'what ifs' out there, I'm starting to wonder if some old codger maybe caught you tagging his barn and dealt with you as a boy......? Do you need a hug?

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 11:29 PM
[QUOTE=Pudelpointer;1341951]I am good with it. Keep your 11 year old under control and everything will be just fine.QUOTE]

obviously at least one peace officer disagrees with you or the old POS would not have been charged. i would always error on the side of the child,no matter what the percieved cost.

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Yet again. Just because.the.government says so. If the government said it was illegal to drink water would you blindly follow knowing its stupid. I see the liberal brain worm is alive and well in your brain.

Big Daddy Badger
03-11-2012, 11:37 PM
when you side steped the charter and laws written in an attempt to enforce your social justice or your vision of what canadian law should be,"because you can", you have declared civil war. a deliberate act and far beyond being a vigilanti. think no one is watchin ya? think again!

Yeah...ummm...

Right on!!!
You said it brother!!!

We should do all we can to stop these geriatric commandos from turning the whole place into a place where folks stand up for what is right!!!!
If we don't people could start expecting others to quit messing with their $hi+, wait their turn in line or worse...pay for things and stuff...

The best way to protect this democracy is to make sure that nobody develops a sense of accountability until they are in their mid-70's!!!!

Power to the pre-pubescent!!!!!

leeaspell
03-11-2012, 11:40 PM
Those seniors are worse than cowboys from the wild west, slaughtering anyone who gets in the way to the wheelchair railway

Twisted Canuck
03-11-2012, 11:42 PM
As an aside Haida, when I was building my house in '08, I had a group of boys in the neighborhood who decided it would be fun to visit my construction site often and do whatever damage they could....from wrecking my ICF foundation blocks, throwing boxes of nails into puddles, unrolling all my rebar ties into mud, pounding studs out with a wrecking bar and sledge hammer....my neighbors saw them, my wife caught them. Wife went to talk to one parent (my kids knew him from school)....mommy and daddy got all in her face for accusing their little lamb. She said she'd talk to police...he followed her home and stood on our front step yelling at her. I was working out of town while this was going on. Got statements from neighbors, went to police, who knew the kid from previous encounter (where mommy filed complaint against constable for being too harsh to her lamb)....and I was the one who the police warned against touching these kids. No apology, no restitution for the $1000 or so damages, nothing, kid and his parents would drive by us in the neighborhood looking so smug. So I had to go to stupid lenghts to secure the construction site. So the little dicks threw dog crap into the windows on several occasions.

Long story short, the 13 yr old is now a 17 yr old drug dealing pot head, who tries to push dope on little kids. Some day, it's going to catch up to him (not from me by the way, I could care less what happens to him, and he avoids my kids completely), and he'll be lying on a slab and his folks will have to identify him at 3 AM, and wonder what went wrong.

They did. Not the system, not the cops, not the teachers, not the neighbors who brought it to their attention that thier kid was an out of control little bastard. The stupid, ignorant, permissive, useless parents.

But better to err on the side of giving the kid every break in the world, right Haida? Until he's trying to sell dope to your kid, I'll bet.

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 11:43 PM
some of you are great at side steppin the questions. what are you worry about....being wrong?

did he use the cane (in any way) to apprehend the child? that is a yes or no question...

if it was in his hand when he apprehended the child and he used it in any way or if he struck the child with it, he should should have been charged with assult with a weapon. maybe he has, i don't know. some of you have red berets in the closet? recent immigrants?

Twisted Canuck
03-11-2012, 11:50 PM
some of you are great at side steppin the questions. what are you worry about....being wrong?

did he use the cane (in any way) to apprehend the child? that is a yes or no question...

if it was in his hand when he apprehended the child and he used it in any way or if he struck the child with it, he should should have been charged with assult with a weapon. maybe he has, i don't know. some of you have red berets in the closet? recent immigrants?

If his parents were any kind of real parents they would have borrowed the old boy's cane and used it on their stupid kid. The kid claims the old guy used the cane, but those little pukes know that the law is on their side, and just what to say to turn the law on the victim. If he did use the cane to prod the kid, good for him. Hardly assault. Any cop worth his badge would have to say 'I didn't see it, property vandalising kid's word against an old man who has been victimized'. End of story.

You want to go to bat for the kid Nait, good on you. You are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution.

As far as being a 'recent immigrant', not sure what merits that comment in your mind. I was born and raised in this province. Did you immigrate here from somewhere?

Nait Hadya
03-11-2012, 11:59 PM
If his parents were any kind of real parents they would have borrowed the old boy's cane and used it on their stupid kid. The kid claims the old guy used the cane, but those little pukes know that the law is on their side, and just what to say to turn the law on the victim. If he did use the cane to prod the kid, good for him. Hardly assault. Any cop worth his badge would have to say 'I didn't see it, property vandalising kid's word against an old man who has been victimized'. End of story.

You want to go to bat for the kid Nait, good on you. You are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution.

assult with a weapon, lying to police,yep you guys are backin a real gem there. yeah sure, a cane today, tomorrow a 3/4 ton doing 50 all in an effort to be the law. throw the book at him and lock the old nut up. age doesn't offer any protection from the law,when you are breaking it!

leeaspell
03-12-2012, 12:00 AM
some of you are great at side steppin the questions. what are you worry about....being wrong?

did he use the cane (in any way) to apprehend the child? that is a yes or no question...

if it was in his hand when he apprehended the child and he used it in any way or if he struck the child with it, he should should have been charged with assult with a weapon. maybe he has, i don't know. some of you have red berets in the closet? recent immigrants?


Recent immigrants? I was wondering the same.about you. My family showed up here before Canada was canada. They should up late 1700,s. You know what they done to punk ass kids like the ones you so dearly love, if they caught them they gave.them a lesson. How can you honestly expect a few thousand police to police millions of people, the math says it can't work. Idle threats only workfor so long until they realize your bluffing, and once you lose control its hard to get it back

Redfrog
03-12-2012, 12:04 AM
WOW! Nait I didn't realize trolling was so effective this time of year but you sure are piling them up. :sHa_shakeshout:

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 12:06 AM
i wouldn't be so quick to send the kid to his parents or family for reprimand as they may be less than stellar examples of humanity. probably denying him the necessities of life,school,health care. why else would he be out running the streets. anyways,that is stickin yer nose where it don't belong.

leeaspell
03-12-2012, 12:07 AM
WOW! Nait I didn't realize trolling was so effective this time of year but you sure are piling them up. :sHa_shakeshout:

I guess I opened up a troll buffet eh lol. Anyway, buffet closed.

Big Daddy Badger
03-12-2012, 12:07 AM
some of you are great at side steppin the questions. what are you worry about....being wrong?

did he use the cane (in any way) to apprehend the child? that is a yes or no question...

if it was in his hand when he apprehended the child and he used it in any way or if he struck the child with it, he should should have been charged with assult with a weapon. maybe he has, i don't know. some of you have red berets in the closet? recent immigrants?

There you go with the ifs again...
You missed few so...in the interest of our new alliance I'll throw out a few more to help out.
Never fear Nait my friend...I got yer back on this...

What if he didn't use the cane?
What if the boy didn't suffer any injury?
What if some of us are recent immigrants?
What's the beef with immigrants anyway?
What if the brat took a poke at the old boy?
What if he happens to be one of those 11 year olds that tips the scales at 200 pounds?
What if he threatened the old fella?
What will happen if the old boy goes down and all that kids friends that escaped....get wind of it?
What if they use that as an excuse to step up their efforts?

Hope that helps...but

I'm really confused about the whole immigrant thing.

Was it immigrants and not the old man that vandalized the house and beat the child with a cane?

Or...was it the boy that beat the old man while the immigrants took the cops to the house to complain about police vandalizing the station by breaking windows with a cane?

Or was it the boy who took the immigrants to the cops because the old man was vandalizing this house and doing something un-natural with his own cane?

I don't think it suits our purpose here to start confusing the issue with facts or anything like that....so my advice is that we should ignore them and stick to rampant speculation no matter what facts are presented to us...


POWER TO THE PRE_PUBESCENT!!!
DOWN WITH GERIATRIC PHILISTINES!!!!
Yeah baby.... gonna be a Riitalin Revolution!!!!

Twisted Canuck
03-12-2012, 12:16 AM
assult with a weapon, lying to police,yep you guys are backin a real gem there. yeah sure, a cane today, tomorrow a 3/4 ton doing 50 all in an effort to be the law. throw the book at him and lock the old nut up. age doesn't offer any protection from the law,when you are breaking it!

I was actually going to skip the 50 mph truck and go right to a small yield tactical nuclear weapon, maybe in the 5 kiloton range to minimize collateral damage. As long as we're talking stupid........

Who said the old boy was lying to the police btw? I'd take his word over some little ***** kid any day! How about throwing the book at the stupid punk ass kid who initiated the whole situation by trespassing, and vandalising someone else's property? And make the parents pay for damages while we're at it. Why does the victim in Canada always become the persecuted one, and the kids get away (literally) with murder?

I know, I know....it's just a cry for help.

FishingMOM
03-12-2012, 06:23 AM
I was actually going to skip the 50 mph truck and go right to a small yield tactical nuclear weapon, maybe in the 5 kiloton range to minimize collateral damage. As long as we're talking stupid........

Who said the old boy was lying to the police btw? I'd take his word over some little ***** kid any day! How about throwing the book at the stupid punk ass kid who initiated the whole situation by trespassing, and vandalising someone else's property? And make the parents pay for damages while we're at it. Why does the victim in Canada always become the persecuted one, and the kids get away (literally) with murder?

I know, I know....it's just a cry for help.

That would be Jasmine Richardson who got away with murder.
It is wrong how so many feel pity for the perp instead of taking side with the victim.

Skybuster
03-12-2012, 06:45 AM
Ha-ha. Nait, I tip my hat to you man. For someone who obviously has no belief in his own arguments you have done an outstanding job of presenting meaningless arguments that, at best, sidetrack the issue, but at the same time have successfully hooked numerous posters into countering them. Or at least attempting to counter them, when in truth even you have realized there is no defense or backing for your arguments so you have abandoned each one as soon as it has been challenged and present another “what if” scenario. I’m pretty sure you get paid for every hit or post on this thread, cause nothing else makes sense. Redfrog was right with his trolling label, and every fisherman out there wants to know what bait you use, cause you are darned successful. Good job at singlehandedly stimulating a multiple page banter.

nekred
03-12-2012, 07:01 AM
I remember a mean old man who lived down the street, I was a kid hired to do the groundskeeping and had to mow all the common areas. They owned from behind their residence 30 feet and when I was doing my job he would come out and yell at me the senile old fart.

We could be playing road hockey in the street (small neighbourhood) we always kept our nets to the side of the street so cars could pass without issue and he would always rant and rave everytime he came by...

We could be riding our bikes on the street past his house and he would rant and rave...

I was always taught to respect my elders but finally when I was 16 I was washing my truck in the driveway and he stopped to rant and rave again at me about mowing behind his house as I was required to!... because he liked the long grass!.... I finally said that I was looking forward to relieving myself on his grave... He got apoplectic and damn near had a heart attack... he got out of his car and charged at me and I stood my ground and asked him if he wanted me to do start tomorrow (promised action)... He got back in his car and roared off in a cloud of blue smoke in his Valiant...

I never knew his name as in the neighbourhood we just knew him as the mean old man. He was complete bully.

Now our neighbor was a kind elderly gentleman who was a WW2 and Korean War vet and we often had many visits over the back fence. I would help him out and he would help me out. I had a lot of respect for him and some good decisions I made were influenced through his mentorship. He has since passed on and I remember him fondly. While he was kind I also knew he was not someone to mess with, there was a quiet strength and confidence and the grace in which he faced his terminal illness will always be respected.

As every situation is different there is a lot of information left out. We all interpret it differently. There is much more involved...

Was this a crazy old man who instigated things and was looking for any excuse to take it out on "those dang kids"...

Or was this a kind gentleman who had just had enough and was doing his civic duty.

That is for a judge to determine!...

Rackmastr
03-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Hmmm....I like the reporter...she gets my vote!

Mhunter51
03-12-2012, 07:40 AM
Pretty embarassing for an 11 year old spry boy to be caught by an old man with a cane !!! Speaking of embarassing -- Naite ?????????????

CanuckShooter
03-12-2012, 08:41 AM
The kid may not have been vandalizing anything. I can remember as a kid snooping around in a bunch of old abandoned houses, and old train stations, and old railway repair yards......I got chased a few times by the railway cops too. BUT I never vandalized a thing, so this kid may only be guilty of being snoopy and getting caught. :thinking-006:

Bound2Fish
03-12-2012, 09:28 AM
The kid may not have been vandalizing anything. I can remember as a kid snooping around in a bunch of old abandoned houses, and old train stations, and old railway repair yards......I got chased a few times by the railway cops too. BUT I never vandalized a thing, so this kid may only be guilty of being snoopy and getting caught. :thinking-006:

Even if he wasnt vandalizing anything, it still does not side step the fact that he was trepassing and it was a B&E, both of which are still crimes. I think the old man may have over reacted but I guess if this were to keep happening to my property, what point do you say enough is enough and catch the perp(s) red handed and deliver them to the police station. Good on him, and I bet that sent a clear message to the others.

Dacotensis
03-12-2012, 10:41 AM
Since no one asked the question yet, I will.
Nait!!!
How do you think the boy should be dealt with for his actions?

Note!
You are not allowed to side step the question.
You are not allowed to insert "what ifs".

Based on the reported story/facts.
What would be appropriate for the boy and his gang?

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 12:38 PM
....How do you think the boy should be dealt with for his actions?

what actions?

this was the communities way of letting Ed know that the property was nonconforming, call it community policing. same as if your dumping garbage off the back side of your private property,i have the right to cause you to remedy it. if that means i have to tresspass to bring it to your attention,so be it.

CanuckShooter
03-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Even if he wasnt vandalizing anything, it still does not side step the fact that he was trepassing and it was a B&E, both of which are still crimes. I think the old man may have over reacted but I guess if this were to keep happening to my property, what point do you say enough is enough and catch the perp(s) red handed and deliver them to the police station. Good on him, and I bet that sent a clear message to the others.

No doubt he was trespassing, although a door could have been ajar so we don't know if it was B&E. Kids are curious and we have to expect they will not always do the right thing.

I think the oldfellow acted appropriately under the circumstances...and I wouldn't call it an over reaction. Our cabin was vandalized repeatedly for over a year, and I am pretty sure if I had caught an 11yr old coming out of the cabin [guilty or not of being a vandal] I probably would have been a little harsher than the old fellow in this story. :mad0030:

At the end of the day, the young fellow might have learned a lesson [don't trespass] and he wasn't hurt.

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 01:12 PM
No doubt he was trespassing, although a door could have been ajar so we don't know if it was B&E. Kids are curious and we have to expect they will not always do the right thing.

I think the oldfellow acted appropriately under the circumstances...and I wouldn't call it an over reaction. Our cabin was vandalized repeatedly for over a year, and I am pretty sure if I had caught an 11yr old coming out of the cabin [guilty or not of being a vandal] I probably would have been a little harsher than the old fellow in this story. :mad0030:

At the end of the day, the young fellow might have learned a lesson [don't trespass] and he wasn't hurt.

are you implying you would beat a child? what would be harsher? you do realize that ignorance of the law is no defence,don't you?

who says he wasn't hurt? what is your definition of hurt? any physical contact could be considered as assult. contact with the cane assult with a weapon. what is your field of expertise,child psychology?

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 01:28 PM
Since no one asked....
What would be appropriate for the boy and his gang?

lol,amazing how far some will go to try and garner support for their opinion. now we have an 11 year old running a gang,laughable.

what's next,charge a child with defecating in public for taking a crap in their diapers.

Albertadiver
03-12-2012, 01:31 PM
I was actually going to skip the 50 mph truck and go right to a small yield tactical nuclear weapon, maybe in the 5 kiloton range to minimize collateral damage. As long as we're talking stupid........

Who said the old boy was lying to the police btw? I'd take his word over some little ***** kid any day! How about throwing the book at the stupid punk ass kid who initiated the whole situation by trespassing, and vandalising someone else's property? And make the parents pay for damages while we're at it. Why does the victim in Canada always become the persecuted one, and the kids get away (literally) with murder?

I know, I know....it's just a cry for help.

Pure Gold.

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/albertadiver/wiser_hood.jpg

Twisted Canuck
03-12-2012, 01:36 PM
I too have come to the conclusion that Nait absolutely must be trolling to get reactions, because no sane person could actually hold to his arguements and twisted logic in this situation. Congrats for getting a rise out of me Nait, you certainly had me fooled into thinking you were a really mentally unstable person for a while there......

CamoDerrick
03-12-2012, 01:38 PM
lol,amazing how far some will go to try and garner support for their opinion. now we have an 11 year old running a gang,laughable.

what's next,charge a child with defecating in public for taking a crap in their diapers.

Jeepers, talk about implying things. Nait, you are applying the word "gang" too directly. Ever heard of the song "Me and my gang" by Rascal Flatts? Ever think that they were "running a gang" as you would put it??


Get your head out of the sand


*Edit: I must agree with twisted_canuck (post above).

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 02:07 PM
the whiteheads of the supreme court will likely visited this juvenile issue some time in the future.

Plank Bridge
03-12-2012, 02:28 PM
From what the news reported it seems to me that the old man did what was right.

Getting off on wild tangents just seems a bit odd. The truth of it will come out in court.

I don't think an eleven year old is not knowledgable enough to know his actions were wrong.

RW

Twisted Canuck
03-12-2012, 02:43 PM
From what the news reported it seems to me that the old man did what was right.

Getting off on wild tangents just seems a bit odd. The truth of it will come out in court.

I don't think an eleven year old is not knowledgable enough to know his actions were wrong. RW

Really? Do you believe most 11 yr olds are complete idiots then? I just asked my 10 yr old if she thought it was ok or wrong to go on somebody else's property, break in, spraypaint, or otherwise vandalise. Now, I do realize my children are exceptional, and as expected she replied with no hesitation that it was wrong.....Maybe I should go around to elementary schools and explain this to children 11 and under?:rolleye2:

Edit: now I reread your post, saying they are 'not knowledgable enough...'. So am I getting this right, you do think the kid knows the difference between right and wrong?

CanuckShooter
03-12-2012, 03:09 PM
are you implying you would beat a child? what would be harsher? you do realize that ignorance of the law is no defence,don't you?

who says he wasn't hurt? what is your definition of hurt? any physical contact could be considered as assult. contact with the cane assult with a weapon. what is your field of expertise,child psychology?


Watch this......:budo:.....a beating is nothin.

Plank Bridge
03-12-2012, 03:54 PM
Really? Do you believe most 11 yr olds are complete idiots then? I just asked my 10 yr old if she thought it was ok or wrong to go on somebody else's property, break in, spraypaint, or otherwise vandalise. Now, I do realize my children are exceptional, and as expected she replied with no hesitation that it was wrong.....Maybe I should go around to elementary schools and explain this to children 11 and under?:rolleye2:

Edit: now I reread your post, saying they are 'not knowledgable enough...'. So am I getting this right, you do think the kid knows the difference between right and wrong?

Sorry, might have double negatived myself. I have taught around the world and even 7-8 year old classes knew not to touch other people's thing or write on the wall. (didn't always stop them)

gatorhunter
03-12-2012, 04:56 PM
This incident occurred close to my town. I`m sure that the incident particulars were reviewed by senior RCMP members of the Detachment so we can rule out that the old fellow was charged by an overzealous member. The old guy did what he was supposed to yet he's the one who is getting raked over the coals.

bigdaddy37
03-12-2012, 07:19 PM
age doesn't offer any protection from the law,when you are breaking it!

I'm curious, you've stated age doesn't offer any protection from the law, yet you argue the right to break the law to bring attention to a situation (post 73) which is essentially arguing for vigilantes, but previously argued against vigilantes in post 34.

I appreciate your sentiment to protect the kid from violence (poked by a cane and held by the collar is violence i suppose), but IMO you've managed to contradict your own points and views in the discussion.

So, what should the old feller have done with the lad who clearly broke the law by tresspassing seeing as you have stated age doesn't offer protection from the law when you break it, breaking the law is ok to bring attention to the situation and taking the law into your own hands isn't appropriate?

lone wolf
03-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Living proof that you should never argue with an idiot. They will simply drag you down to their level, and beat you through experience.
Note: names have been purposely omitted to protect the innocent

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm curious, you've stated age doesn't offer any protection from the law, yet you argue the right to break the law to bring attention to a situation (post 73) which is essentially arguing for vigilantes, but previously argued against vigilantes in post 34.

I appreciate your sentiment to protect the kid from violence (poked by a cane and held by the collar is violence i suppose), but IMO you've managed to contradict your own points and views in the discussion.

So, what should the old feller have done with the lad who clearly broke the law by tresspassing seeing as you have stated age doesn't offer protection from the law when you break it, breaking the law is ok to bring attention to the situation and taking the law into your own hands isn't appropriate?

tresspassing is not necessarily an offence nor breaking the law,you have yet to prove the child committed a criminal tresspass or a criminal offence.

common sense should exclude anyone under 12, it was in reference to someone Ed's age or even older.

220swifty
03-12-2012, 08:36 PM
what actions?

this was the communities way of letting Ed know that the property was nonconforming, call it community policing. same as if your dumping garbage off the back side of your private property,i have the right to cause you to remedy it. if that means i have to tresspass to bring it to your attention,so be it.

I notice you list your location as Red Deer. Me too. PM me your address, i would like to begin inspecting your property, and addressing any deficiencies as I see fit.

Big Daddy Badger
03-12-2012, 08:38 PM
when you side steped the charter and laws written in an attempt to enforce your social justice or your vision of what canadian law should be,"because you can", you have declared civil war. a deliberate act and far beyond being a vigilanti. think no one is watchin ya? think again!


Nait...
I must admit the passage above had me baffled for some time but I think I have finally figured out what you mean.

Yes...I have a massive headache and my ears are now bleeding but it is all worth it to finally understand the special genius you possess that we should all emulate.

Honestly buds you are so far ahead of me...
How pathetic we must all look in your all knowing eyes.... how pedestrian and boorish....

Now I can see your master plan...

Lets consider the agreed upon facts.
This was all in response to property crime.

Well...then it's too easy...
No property....no crime... right!?!

We just take away everyones property and turn it over to the state.
People that live in a place but don't own it... usually don't care about upkeep and stuff so....the old guy wouldn't have felt it nessissary to defend the house.
End result?
No property crime and no bad old fart beating up kids.

BUT!!!!...and this is the real genius part...if he did he could argue that he was protecting the states property as an act of patriotism and along with that our constitution and our way of life.

WAIT..it gets better....
He could also argue that the boys attack against the house was an attack against the state...our constitution and...our way of life.
Therefore....a clearly treasonous act and ....a cime that the police ....the state police for the police state would have to respond to by meting out immediate justice.

So...to sum up...the best way to protect our democracy is to take property and property rights away from ordinary dumber than stump Canadians....right?

Perfect....
I just wish you'd dumbed it down for us sooner so everyone could consider your genius and quit wallowing in such ignorance.

Man...we should name a day of the week after you....and....thanks for setting me straight.....

Evilsports
03-12-2012, 08:38 PM
My hat's off to the old boy for having the common sense and confidence to make the kid accountable for his actions. This is the exact reason that I wanted to raise our children in a smaller community. (I clearly lost that debate)

Societies are turning into politically correct cesspools of bleeding heart wimps. Afraid of doing the right thing, to the point that they invent reasons not to.

Twisted Canuck
03-12-2012, 08:39 PM
I notice you list your location as Red Deer. Me too. PM me your address, i would like to begin inspecting your property, and addressing any deficiencies as I see fit.

Post of the day, right there Baby!!:sHa_shakeshout:

Albertadiver
03-12-2012, 08:49 PM
Post of the day, right there Baby!!:sHa_shakeshout:

^^^ Yeah, what she said!

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 09:01 PM
I notice you list your location as Red Deer. Me too. PM me your address, i would like to begin inspecting your property, and addressing any deficiencies as I see fit.

don't be a naiter hater,swiffy. though as a fellow citizen you would be quite within your rights to do so and complain to bylaws. i have done that myself. didn't you get a surprise inspection of your dog house a while ago. see, that was done by a man with character,something many of you lack,you should try an emulate that. though im a bit worried you'll be labeled a vigilanti as your actions were spurred on by my comments on this forum.lol

220swifty
03-12-2012, 09:15 PM
OK, I will bite. How does burning down outbuildings equate with calling bylaw in your convoluted mind? Not a "naiter hater", just intrigued.

Big Daddy Badger
03-12-2012, 09:47 PM
You have to read a few posts back to really understand his genius....
We're unworthy.....

vcmm
03-12-2012, 09:50 PM
You have to read a few posts back to really understand his genius....
We're unworthy.....

Does this mean he is the new TERM IN NAITER?:scared0018:

Big Daddy Badger
03-12-2012, 10:12 PM
Does this mean he is the new TERM IN NAITER?:scared0018:

Oh....I wouldn't even dare to suppose that I could answer that on behalf of a scholar of that calibre.
Did you know that if you record his voice then play it backwards there are hidden messages?
Honest...

sharpstick
03-12-2012, 10:34 PM
Nait, please tell us you have never reproduced and do not ever plan to... If you have, I feel so sorry for your children, they are going to take a beating in school if you are teaching them your beliefs...

vcmm
03-12-2012, 10:35 PM
Nait, please tell us you have never reproduced and do not ever plan to... If you have, I feel so sorry for your children, they are going to take a beating in school if you are teaching them your beliefs...

It would never happen. That alone would make him like the old man and kid.

moosemad
03-12-2012, 11:22 PM
As we speak I am busy in the shop making a cattle prod into a cane. I will send this to the old lad so he won't have to go thru such a hassle next time.
For the record, when we were kids many moons ago we would raid an older persons garden for no other reason than the thrill of it. One particular night we were caught in the act by the owner, couple of my buddies were nursing sore arses next day from a shot gun full of rock salt.
My how times have changed.

Nait Hadya
03-12-2012, 11:59 PM
My hat's off to the old boy for having the common sense and confidence to make the kid accountable for his actions. This is the exact reason that I wanted to raise our children in a smaller community. (I clearly lost that debate)

Societies are turning into politically correct cesspools of bleeding heart wimps. Afraid of doing the right thing, to the point that they invent reasons not to.

ya, you put your finger in the problem right there. ought ah be a law.

mudbug
03-13-2012, 02:04 AM
:party0051:

nof60
03-13-2012, 02:25 AM
As an aside Haida, when I was building my house in '08, I had a group of boys in the neighborhood who decided it would be fun to visit my construction site often and do whatever damage they could....from wrecking my ICF foundation blocks, throwing boxes of nails into puddles, unrolling all my rebar ties into mud, pounding studs out with a wrecking bar and sledge hammer....my neighbors saw them, my wife caught them. Wife went to talk to one parent (my kids knew him from school)....mommy and daddy got all in her face for accusing their little lamb. She said she'd talk to police...he followed her home and stood on our front step yelling at her. I was working out of town while this was going on. Got statements from neighbors, went to police, who knew the kid from previous encounter (where mommy filed complaint against constable for being too harsh to her lamb)....and I was the one who the police warned against touching these kids. No apology, no restitution for the $1000 or so damages, nothing, kid and his parents would drive by us in the neighborhood looking so smug. So I had to go to stupid lenghts to secure the construction site. So the little dicks threw dog crap into the windows on several occasions.

Long story short, the 13 yr old is now a 17 yr old drug dealing pot head, who tries to push dope on little kids. Some day, it's going to catch up to him (not from me by the way, I could care less what happens to him, and he avoids my kids completely), and he'll be lying on a slab and his folks will have to identify him at 3 AM, and wonder what went wrong.

They did. Not the system, not the cops, not the teachers, not the neighbors who brought it to their attention that thier kid was an out of control little bastard. The stupid, ignorant, permissive, useless parents.

But better to err on the side of giving the kid every break in the world, right Haida? Until he's trying to sell dope to your kid, I'll bet.

You should have kidnapped him and whacked him with a weapon.

nof60
03-13-2012, 02:35 AM
OK Here we go

1) What the kids were doing was wrong. The police by sitting on their butts as usual were wrong. But kidnapping an 11 year old is very very wrong. Amber alert anyone????
2)If this had happened to me as a kid my old man woulda kicked my butt. He also would have put that old POS in the hospital for laying a hand on his kid.
3) Had this been my kid there would be another trial cause if anyone who isn't me touchs my kid it gonna get real bad real fast
4) I also would tune the kid for being a poo head
5) Right to arrest does not give you right to confign against will
6) Proper response....take some pics, get the kids name if you can, go to po po
7) And to top it off what if 4 or 5 of these little punks had decided to beat the crapola out of this silly old fool?
8) Any parent who thinks it would be allright for another person to grab a kid and force them into a vehicle and hit them with a cain aint much of a parent IMO

Evilsports
03-13-2012, 07:37 AM
ya, you put your finger in the problem right there. ought ah be a law.

I agree 100%, in fact their should probably be 2-3 laws.

I don't think we, as a society, have the common sense to make important decisions like "right and wrong" on our own.

If only there were a way to have the government make these choices for us...then we'd feel safer. (Plus we'd have more spare time on our hands to watch tv and surf the internet)

Pudelpointer
03-13-2012, 07:50 AM
OK Here we go

5) Right to arrest does not give you right to confign against will


To "arrest" someone does exactly that. There are limits; you can't tie someone up, put you can restrain them if they are resisting lawful arrest.

I have not read the story, so I won't comment on the cane, or drive to the police. The issue here is the age of the child. At 11 he can not be charged with a crime; so how does that effect the right to arrest?

A bunch of stuff will need to be determined before a court will convict the old timer of anything more than bad judgement including whether he had a cell phone or any other way to contact the police without dragging the kid to the Police station.

Twisted Canuck
03-13-2012, 08:20 AM
OK Here we go

1) What the kids were doing was wrong. The police by sitting on their butts as usual were wrong. But kidnapping an 11 year old is very very wrong. Amber alert anyone????
2)If this had happened to me as a kid my old man woulda kicked my butt. He also would have put that old POS in the hospital for laying a hand on his kid.
3) Had this been my kid there would be another trial cause if anyone who isn't me touchs my kid it gonna get real bad real fast
4) I also would tune the kid for being a poo head
5) Right to arrest does not give you right to confign against will
6) Proper response....take some pics, get the kids name if you can, go to po po
7) And to top it off what if 4 or 5 of these little punks had decided to beat the crapola out of this silly old fool?
8) Any parent who thinks it would be allright for another person to grab a kid and force them into a vehicle and hit them with a cain aint much of a parent IMO

Well, at least you say you will deal with your own kid in this situation, and that would solve everything. The problem is generally that there are no consequences for little delinquents. They won't be charged, the warning the police give them makes them laugh, all the statements of witnesses and pictures in the world that you can generate will make no difference. The kids know that the law requires a victim to be a passive victim and not do anything to protect themselves or property, or they, the victim, will be charged, and the liberal hand wringers of society will wave their collective arms about and cry because a child was threatened/touched/traumatized....which I agree, they shouldn't be, except by the responsible parent who should beat their stupid kid's ass good, and make them apologise, and pay restitution, mow lawns, shovel driveway, something to teach them social responsibility and appropriate behavior. A peson should be able to call the police, and have results, with consequences to the delinquent and it's parents. It just doesn't work that way, and I personally know how frustrating it gets. You have no idea how badly I wanted to educate the kid and his dad who cost me $1000 and many sleepless nights patrolling MY PROPERTY!! If the law didn't protect the criminals and persecute the victims, maybe the victims wouldn't feel like they need to take it upon themselves to get justice. Because the law is most certainly not about any kind of justice anymore.

Nait Hadya
03-14-2012, 09:42 PM
the "amber alert" seems to have brought most of them back to reality and cleared their rage filled eyes.

Rocky7
03-14-2012, 10:10 PM
Bottom line:

1. The kid wasn't hurt.
2. He (and maybe all his friends) are probably not going to vandalize anybody's buildings again.

Those who say how dangerous it would be for anybody to ever lay a hand on their kid at any time for any reason better be prepared to guarantee their kids' behaviour 24/7 and pay for any and all damages their kid ever does - no if's and's or but's. That would be sensible alternative.

However, since that doesn't happen in the Age of Excuses and since the police weren't interested in doing anything, I think the old guy did the right thing. The kid was not beaten or even hit; he was taken to the police station 'fer heaven's sake!

amber alert?...:sHa_sarcasticlol:

fish gunner
03-14-2012, 10:52 PM
when I was a little nipper ages with the kid in the incident. my parents would take me house to house introducing their hellion of a child. all the parents on our street were given permission from my parents to put boot to rear or cuff to lug. if I was spotted up to no good, then send me home and call after supper. so disipline could be more properly handled. then my warm a** would be walked over to the persons home made apologize and offer service in return for wrong doing. I once looked after an elderly ladys yard for 3 months. for chopping down a fruit tree out in the back 40. I got a good whoopn , grounded for 3 and made give my paper route money till the lady and my dad were paid back in full. so a 50$ tree cost me a full summers pay 100$. that is how you teach a rascal to join society.

canadiantdi
03-15-2012, 12:19 AM
Did the kid go in the abandoned house? Was he just on the lawn or something? Would that still be an arrestable offense?

If you are performing a legal citizens arrest, are you allowed to use a weapon (cane in this case I guess)? In Canada I don't even think you are allowed to carry a "weapon" as self defense. Could you arrest an 11 year old and use a "weapon" in the process?

It would have been better for the old man to stop the child and call the police instead of taking him to the police imo. Even though it appears the criminal code allows it, it just seems like a bad idea to take an 11 year old trespasser and pack him in your car.

It seems like in Canada, if you protect yourself or your property, the police will charge you no matter what and let the courts decide if you had the right. FAIL.

Nait = fail.

Sporty
03-15-2012, 04:48 AM
When I was a kid, if that old fart hauled me home for vandalizing his home, his outhouse, his shed or his house for sale down the street, I would have one thought in my mind and one only:

MAN, I HOPE DAD ISN'T HOME!

I'd like to extend that comment to "MOM"!! Our mom wasn't about to wait for dad to come home when we got out of line, she did a fine job dealing with us herself. We're still scared of her! :scared0018:

I crack up at all these "liberal" comments because I know many "conservative" parents that think their little Johnny's and Jane's are the most perfect creatures to grace the planet and can do no wrong.

This is what our society is becoming, we've got a generation of kids growing up that have only seen the time out chair as a consequence, raised by iphones, computers and wii's, don't know how to spell or add without spell check or a calculator, are wimpy and sensitive because they've never been told the hard facts of life in fears of their psyche's being damaged. Zero common sense, respect or street smarts and this is what we're handing our futures to. Scares the crap out of me.

Nait Hadya
03-15-2012, 10:35 AM
Bottom line:

1. The kid wasn't hurt.
2. He (and maybe all his friends) are probably not going to vandalize anybody's buildings again.

deal with your number two conclusion first, you have no proof that this baby was involved in any vandalizing and are merely lying to try and protect someone that you see as protecting your rights,irregardless of how immoral it is.

"not hurt",again you have no proof of this and your not sufficiently educated enough to understand how violent adult/child interactions can have lasting and detrimental effects.

Albertadiver
03-15-2012, 10:41 AM
NAIT,

Give it up already. Sheesh...

Twisted Canuck
03-15-2012, 10:43 AM
deal with your number two conclusion first, you have no proof that this baby was involved in any vandalizing and are merely lying to try and protect someone that you see as protecting your rights,irregardless of how immoral it is.

"not hurt",again you have no proof of this and your not sufficiently educated enough to understand how violent adult/child interactions can have lasting and detrimental effects.

This 11 year old baby....hahahahahahahah!

As AB said, give it up already Nait, fishing is closed.

Nait Hadya
03-15-2012, 10:50 AM
....amber alert?...:sHa_sarcasticlol:


if you rolled around the corner just as the old POS was grabbing the baby by the scruff if the neck,him kicking and screaming for all he's worth and you see he forced into a vehicle.would you not call 911, do you even know what amber alert/child abduction is?

Albertadiver
03-15-2012, 10:57 AM
if you rolled around the corner just as the old POS was grabbing the baby by the scruff if the neck,him kicking and screaming for all he's worth and you see he forced into a vehicle.would you not call 911, do you even know what amber alert/child abduction is?

I would help the gentleman. Maybe even offer to give him and the kid a ride.

I fail to see how this gentleman is a POS.

Pretty funny when you 'abduct' a kid to the police station....

"not hurt",again you have no proof of this and your not sufficiently educated enough to understand how violent adult/child interactions can have lasting and detrimental effects.

Oh boohoo, some poor kid was traumatized for life by a mean old man with a walking stick..... :rolleyes:

Lets not forget that this poor little boy wouldn't have had this interaction if he wasn't up to any good in the first place!

Kanonfodder
03-15-2012, 11:18 AM
I am betting ol Nait had a run in when he was a poor baby and got his ass whupped because of some old guy in his hood..lol

1. the kid was trespassing on private property ...and caught doing so
2. the old fella has the right of citizen arrest
3. the little angels age has zip to do with it as the onus should not be on the old guy to ask for ID
4. delivered immediately to police by a handicapped old man...
5. your Amber Alert is absurd and an obvious attempt to deflect your weak arguement
6. you have issues lol

Nait Hadya
03-15-2012, 11:31 AM
....
1. the kid was trespassing on private property....
2. the old fella has the right of citizen arrest

petty tresspassing,no right of arrest.property was boarded up shack not fit for human habitation. no signage that i could see,no fencing.

70chevy
03-15-2012, 01:08 PM
I am betting ol Nait had a run in when he was a poor baby and got his ass whupped because of some old guy in his hood..lol

1. the kid was trespassing on private property ...and caught doing so
2. the old fella has the right of citizen arrest
3. the little angels age has zip to do with it as the onus should not be on the old guy to ask for ID
4. delivered immediately to police by a handicapped old man...
5. your Amber Alert is absurd and an obvious attempt to deflect your weak arguement
6. you have issues lol

This is just absurb
A neighbor hood kid and i ,When we were 5.Standing on the boulavard throwing rocks at passing cars.We thought this was a great plan at the time until one older gentleman from down the street came cruising by.Of course we unloaded rocks on his car as he went by.He then proceeded around the block for more punishment from us throwing more rocks.Needless to say when he came back it was us that got the punishment.He caught us both and beat our asses with his belt so hard it hurt to sit for a week.Then our fathers also had their turn at us as he came by to tell them what we had been up to.Nowadays if some one was to do that they would be charged and hung out to dry.In all of it we learned a very valuble lesson out of this.Make sure you can run faster than your buddies lol

Arctic
03-15-2012, 01:45 PM
Well, 70 Chevy and Fishgunner must be distant relatives, cause that was how I was brought up. You respected others' property and the elderly were the most respected in the community, ......those were basic social values. As a parent, it was understood, ......if your kids were troublemakers and you had values like Naid, you'd have a visit from the neighbours, and they only spoke once. If you didn't listen and absorb, you might as well move, cause life could be hell!! Three cheers for the old guy, and three kicks in the ass to the kid's parents!!

MAC
03-15-2012, 03:18 PM
The kid did it. He said so at trial.This is not in dispute. I understand Mr. Raflants frustration.
But he did not catch anyone redhanded. The kids ran away.
A short while later he spots the kid in a parking lot, drives up and grabs him and is tossed into the truck. This does not meet the criteria for citizens arrest. Anyone seing this happen would call it a kidnapping, there is no indication of what Mr. Raflant is doing. Considering the Rafferty trial going on in London Ont. right now I am surprised at the support and offer of help for snatching a kid. How are you, Mr Raflant or anyone else able to determine if this is the kid who ran away or an innocent bystander wearing the wrong color jacket. That is why the police should be called. That is why there is a criteria for citizens arrest. To protect the innocent from an angry victim.
Yes Mr. Raflant is a victim that deserves justice. The courts will sort this out. But I cant support anyone who takes the law into their own hands just because he is frustrated.

Cal
03-15-2012, 03:45 PM
assult with a weapon, lying to police,yep you guys are backin a real gem there. yeah sure, a cane today, tomorrow a 3/4 ton doing 50 all in an effort to be the law. throw the book at him and lock the old nut up. age doesn't offer any protection from the law,when you are breaking it!

I just hope you never manage to pro-create, I imagine if I met anything that had been parented by you I'd probably want to beat it with a large stick.

Twisted Canuck
03-15-2012, 03:57 PM
The kid did it. He said so at trial.This is not in dispute. I understand Mr. Raflants frustration.
But he did not catch anyone redhanded. The kids ran away.
A short while later he spots the kid in a parking lot, drives up and grabs him and is tossed into the truck. This does not meet the criteria for citizens arrest. Anyone seing this happen would call it a kidnapping, there is no indication of what Mr. Raflant is doing. Considering the Rafferty trial going on in London Ont. right now I am surprised at the support and offer of help for snatching a kid. How are you, Mr Raflant or anyone else able to determine if this is the kid who ran away or an innocent bystander wearing the wrong color jacket. That is why the police should be called. That is why there is a criteria for citizens arrest. To protect the innocent from an angry victim.
Yes Mr. Raflant is a victim that deserves justice. The courts will sort this out. But I cant support anyone who takes the law into their own hands just because he is frustrated.

I didn't see those details in the original post, do you have a source to indicate the boy was apprehended later, off the property? The only thing I saw was that he saw him fleeing, and apprehended him, and took him to police.

diamonddave
03-15-2012, 04:20 PM
With some of the bizzar comments you have made (Nait) in this thread, there is no wonder that there are kids out there today that have no respect or consideration for other. You are fostering the growing attitude that the younger generations can do whatever they want and get away with it.
You are nurturing the behavior that someone else will look after them... see occupy here there and every where.... and that they don't have to work for themselves and behave like a responsable adult.
Nait you have outdone your self with your drivel this time, please keep your hounds out of my neck of the woods, I don't hope to ever run into you.
I spend my days teaching my kids to not become the kids you are promoting, they will never be chased down and drug to the cops for their actions, I'm not sure at all you can say the same.

Ishpah
03-15-2012, 04:28 PM
Repeat after me;

CASTLE LAW! CASTLE LAW! CASTLE LAW! CASTLE LAW............................................... ......................

338Bluff
03-15-2012, 04:41 PM
I can't believe how many of you just snap and go off half-cocked.

What exactly did the kid do? Article says he observed him 'running away'....maybe from an old crank?

Was the kid a repeat offender or just with the wrong bunch on that day (and obviously the slowest)? Had the old boy asked the parents to do something beforehand? Some parents can be lax, but there are just as many that would have lowered the boom if he had taken the time to talk to them.

We all read things differently but I cannot see a single instance where he talked to the parents. The report says the vandalism had gone on for a decade....that desparado was all of a year old! :sHa_sarcasticlol:

All I can say is some of you guys go from zero to lynch in less than 10 seconds......:snapoutofit: There are just not enough details in that article to make a case either way, but then again that is what a good journalist will do....sensationalize to tug at the heart strings.

From other comments I could assume that some of you feel parents need to lock the kids in 24-7 when they are not in school.

The kid needs to be grounded, the old crank needs some anger management, and the principal of the local school needs to hold an assembly with the RCMP to maybe to a little educating (small town solution-seen it work).

Then again, I think most of you think this is at least a flogging,caning, or outright hanging offence.

I guess it's just more fun to play 'aint it awful' on the internet eh? Oh yeah and the world is just falling apart.....meh

MAC
03-15-2012, 04:59 PM
Yes the source for the information I used was the same journalist, 2 days before the posted article. March 6 James Turner wrote this article http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/06/senior-charged-after-turning-in-vandal

March 8 he wrote the article in the original post. His editor must of thought he did not incite enough outrage with his March 6 article.
The March 6 article appears to be reporting on the court proceedings and I believe not in dispute as to the location of where Mr. Raflant picked up the boy.
Also I believe that trashing the parents at this point may be premature.
He may have already suffered some dire consequence at home for his actions.
We dont know, he may not have.
As some posters have confessed to doing some stupid things and being corrected by their parents as examples of what good parents do.
The actions of a child in one reported incident is not enough information to judge parenting. If it is 70 chevys parents were bad parents as he did get caught doing something stupid. (Sorry not picking on you 70chevy just the easiest example I had, could easily use myself or anyone else. We all did it)
I still believe most parents are doing a good job.

338Bluff
03-15-2012, 05:04 PM
I should add that I do hold parents responsible for mischief their kids get into. Old school with my values as well. Kids should be disciplined by their parents.

Strangers should not lay their hands on other peoples kids. It could create the current situation we see in the article or escalate into something far worse. If an over protective father decided to take the law into his own hands.....the journalist would likely spin that the other way and then we could have a thread where the AO moral majority was calling for the old guys head and demanding dangerous child molestors like that be caged (I`m being sarcastic with that last remark-learned you need to spell it out here as some have trouble with that nuance). The father of course would be the down trodden hero caught up in red tape and a failed justice system.

Nait Hadya
03-16-2012, 10:48 AM
Post of the day, right there Baby!!:sHa_shakeshout:

.

Rocky7
03-18-2012, 11:21 AM
In other related news....

CALGARY - Police are hailing several people as "heroes" after they rescued a woman being attacked, collaring a suspect now eyed in a recent assault on an elderly woman in her own home.......

Laurette Hubbard, 65, an employee at the motel, left her front counter post to step outside for a smoke break about 2:30 a.m.

She said she politely declined a man's request for a cigarette.

Without warning, she was attacked.

"He had me by the neck and I screamed and I kicked but he wasn't giving up," she said.

Hearing her screams, Parminder rushed in to see the scary scuffle underway.

He intervened and followed the suspect, who had ran into the office to rummaged through the front desk.

Parminder wasn't alone in making the citizens' arrest. Soon, the crime-fighting efforts became a family affair with his mother, father Satbir, and a hotel guest piling in to hold the suspect for police.

Insp. Paul Stacey called the arrest the work of "heroes.".......


"Heroes" seems over the top, but certainly they did a good thing.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/03/20120318-115710.html

Zuludog
03-18-2012, 11:58 AM
When I was a kid, if that old fart hauled me home for vandalizing his home, his outhouse, his shed or his house for sale down the street, I would have one thought in my mind and one only:

MAN, I HOPE DAD ISN'T HOME!

Yep! or in my case my Grandpa.

In these cases if the "child" is too young to be held accountable the parents or guardians should be. If they can't control him then they have the option of him going into a boys home.

topgun2269
03-18-2012, 01:09 PM
remember the good old days!! you stole a mans horse you hung to your death!!!!! i like it!!!!!

Steal a car in Pakistan you lose one hand!!!!! think the idiot will do it again.. Canada needs this as well....

LB 270
03-18-2012, 02:28 PM
When I was 11 I was egging houses with my friends. I knew it was wrong, my friends knew it was wrong. We hit one house and the guy clearly was watching us get ready cuz he come outta that door like a lightning bolt. We scattered and I was the one that he ran down. I was carried back to his house by the scruff of my jacket, I don't think my feet touched the ground once. A call was placed to my mother who came and got me. That was an extremely uncomfortable 20 minutes sitting in the guys house with his wife and kids looking at me. My mother thanked him and made arrangements for me to come back and clean off the mess. The hour between then and when my Dad got home was the longest of my entire life. There was a frank discussion about the consequences of my choices that evening, followed by a belt on the backside. Guess what Nait? I never took part in that sort of B.S. again. Lesson learned. To say that an 11 year old isn't capable of knowing right and wrong is silly.:snapoutofit: If we all thought it was ok then why did we all run away? This old man may have been over zealous, maybe he wasn't however he didn't exact any revenge or retribution. He took the boy to the Police station. Lesson learned for the kid? I hope so.....I'm 42 and I still get shivers thinking about the hour waiting for my Dad to get home. Brrrrrrr is it cold in here?:eek: