Urgent Call to Action!!!

[Pudelpointer]

It has recently been confirmed that there is NO money in the SRD budget for the Pheasant Release Program this year.

It sounds like government may be able to find money for this program, but it may come through Agriculture and Rural Development or through Tourism, Parks and Recreation.

A new NGO called Upland Birds Alberta (UBA) has put forth a proposal to the AB Government to reinvigorate pheasant hunting in Alberta. UBA asked for bids from Pheasant Producers, and as part of "exploring all options" also went outside AB looking for bids on supplying pheasants. In another thread I indicated that SRD went looking for bids; this was not the case.

I understand that the proposal from UBA went to government with both US bids and AB bids. IF the PC government decides to move forward with this program, THEY WILL DECIDE where those birds will come from.

The UBA proposal called for 20,000 birds to be released this fall. For there to be 20,000 birds available this fall to release, the Canadian Pheasant Company (CPC) needs to know NOW. That means the AB Government needs to make a decision NOW.

I understand the difference in price between the Canadian Pheasant Company and the cheapest US supplier is in the region of $2 per/bird. If paying the extra $2 to "Buy Albertan" means that 18,000 pheasants are released instead of 20,000..... well I am okay with that, and I think most other Albertans would be good with it as well.

I haven't seen the UBA proposal, so I can't comment on what they did, or did not, recommend; however, I am interested to know what they factored in for shipping and distribution costs, mortality rates from extended cage time, etc.? I can not imagine how birds from Wisconsin could possibly be "cheaper" to release in AB then birds from the CPC or other local producers. Never mind the fact that buying within AB puts that money directly back into the AB economy; CPC is locally owned, they buy feed from local producers, hire local residents, support local charities, pay local taxes, etc.


This is where the CALL TO ACTION comes in:

Please take the time to write / phone / email your MLA, Ministers Frank Oberle (SRD), Evan Berger (ARD), Jack Hayden (TPR), Ron Liepert (Finance); and CC to Deputy Premier Doug Horner and Premier Alison Redford.

You may also want to ask Danielle Smith (Wildrose) and your local declared candidates for MLA.

There is an election coming very soon. I want to see a written commitment from all parties on this issue (as well as the sale of Public Lands, game farms, SRD funding, G/O allocations, ad nauseum).

Please take the time to let them know how you feel, and how it could influence how you cast your vote!

[Pudelpointer]

I suck with hot-linking. Could someone smarter than me link the above mentioned individuals contact info?

[jryley]

To be honestim a little divided on this issue. As drastic as it sounds, I actually would rather see no pheasants released in alberta and have the government allocate those dollars to more effective deer management.

[densa44]

When the PC's give back all that money for meetings that were never held there will be lots of money for people like us.

I think that this is a tourism issue, big time so I'd write to Jack Hayden, he'll get it.

[aulrich]

Funny I would have expected this years budget = last years phesant licence revenue, since it is a special extra licence ove the cost od a regular game bird tag. why have the special licence if that revenue is not used to finance the program?

Arg!!!

[wwbirds]

All licence fees flow into general revenue so budgets are zero based and have to be fought for (justified) each year.

Guess I see this as a two part issue.
1. Whether or not pheasants are purchased from me or not it should be from a Canadian producer who contributes to the alberta restocking, economy and tax base rather than importing.

2. Unless habitat improvements are undertaken I do not support put an take pheasant releases on bucks for wildlife sites so waiting "hunters" can shoot them as soon as the truck leaves.
We had far better populations when irrigation canals were left natural and 4 H clubs were encouraged to raise and release pheasants all over the southern part of the province so they were not easily accessed and tended to spill over into hunting areas instead of being placed there.
We lose 20% of planted birds for our shooters and when I hunt coyotes in the winter it is not unusual to see 20 pheasants within 5 miles of here that are spillovers to good cover.
Put and take is a band aid solution that costs all taxpayers in the province with only a handful of "hunters" reaping any benefit.

Habitat improvements will benefit all Albertans (non consumptive as well as consumptive) as well as many other species facing habitat challenges.

[jryley]

Question for you pheasant hunters. Where is the general "northern boundary" for pheasant release programs? I guess im torn on the issue mainly because in my area there arent pheasants running around....or that i know of anyways. I own land and hunt in 232 by lougheed/sedgewick etc. Would pheasants do well in southeast AB in said areas?? And if so, how would one go about pushing for releases in these areas? I would love to see them out there!!

[aulrich]

Figured as much for the tag revenue, but I had hoped since it was a special levey.

But there no arging habitat, for the most part, take care of the land and the animals can take care of themself's.

[ironkid96]

Its not like there will be an end to pheasant hunting

Maybe everyone just wont get to shoot them right off the back of a release truck.

Still alot of wild ones out there..

[wwbirds]

The Alberta border is generally north of the generally accepted prime habitat for pheasants. it is not the cold but access to food that affects the ability to survive. Most pheasants will not scratch down more that 6-8 inches through snow cover to reach food so in years of heavy snow Montana and the Dakotas lose pheasants along with antelope who share the inability of feeding through snow stigma. in good years pheasants could survive in Sedgewick, Killam areas and the old provincial truck used to go to Buffalo Lake and nearly to Edmonton for some release sites. the odds of survival for year after year are directly related to snow fall, drifting and availability of cover and feed.
Having said that the current stocking is restricted to a few bucks for wildlife sites in southern Alberta so I doubt any amount of lobbying would result in stocking in the more marginal habitat away from the Brooks area. Cost of running the truck up to those areas would be very prohibitive.

[uncle buck]

I typed this up and sent it in.
We'll see. Feel free to copy it if you want!

Dear Jack Hayden,


I’m writing to inquire about the Pheasant release program for the upcoming year. I have enjoyed the hunting program at Buffalo Lake for many years and have seen lots of people who travel from all over Alberta and British Columbia to take advantage of this great program. I believe that this program certainly creates tourism dollars being spent in nearby communities. I know I have spent plenty of money in Stettler because of its close proximity to this release site. I am wondering of the status of the release program for the upcoming season and if it could be put on a more stable footing by creating a longer term contract with the Canadian Pheasant Company to supply the release program? It seem like every year there is panic among upland hunters that the program will be discontinued and this lack of stablility hurts those making holiday and travel plans to take advantage of this important program.

Any information on the status of this great program would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,

[Pudelpointer]

Most of the pheasant releases in the south are done by local clubs and volunteers.

The LFGA (many others as well, but I know the process with the LFGA) has volunteers who meet up with the delivery truck, or pick up at Brooks, and then drive to the approved release sites. The release sites are not just Buck for Wildlife properties, they include DU, ACA, AFGA properties as well as private lands where walk on access is allowed without permission.

Hey, I agree that put and take hunting is not ideal, and honestly I avoid the release sites like the plague most of the time. And yes, we have all heard the stories of idiots following the truck around, but, the fact remains that (I would guess) that most years the vast majority of pheasants killed in AB are released birds. In 2010 I would suggest that number was >%90.

The end result of not releasing pheasants in AB will be 1) a continuing decline in the number of upland bird hunters, 2) much higher pressure on our wild birds, and 3) a significant reduction in the economic benefits of upland bird hunting.

In an ideal world put and take pheasants would be uneccesary. But we do not live in an ideal world. Habitat continues to decrease in both quantity and quality, and until that trend is reversed I think the pheasant release program has definite value - as clearly evidenced in the success of last years Taber Pheasant Festival.

[Pudelpointer]

Good letter UB. Maybe CC it to the other ministers as well.

[Okotokian]

I suspect a number of pheasant licensees are like me. I have religiously bought the pheasant license every year, but mainly for "just in case" purposes. I hunt mostly partridge and grouse (though frankly even that has been declining the past few years) in areas a little too far west to be prime pheasant habitat. I have rarely seen a pheasant and never shot one in my life.

Having never put in the hours to drive all the way out east to pheasant release sites, scout, and obtain permission in advance, I'm not real fussed about the program being discontinued. That said, if they are charging extra for the right to hold a tag, they should plow some/most/all of the money back into the species.

[Pudelpointer]

Oko, I would gladly take you out to chase pheasants. I can put you into both wild birds and released birds..... well I can if they actually release any!

Ideally I would like to see some or all of the pheasant license (and upland bird license) revenue go into a separate grant fund that could be applied for by local groups. They could apply for funds for birds to release or habitat projects or a 4H game bird program, etc.

Granted, the amount of money for bird licenses is not much, (I may be wrong here as I am pulling numbers out of my head, and possibly other, lower orifices) somewhere in the order of $100,000 from pheasant licenses and maybe $600,000 from game bird licenses.

If Roosters cost $17.00 (assuming you get a discount for buying in the tens of thousands) resident pheasant license sales alone should be putting 5 to 6 thousand pheasants on the landscape each fall.

Considering that bird game licenses generate between $600k and a million dollars each year, and SRD spends zero dollars on other upland birds (except for Sage Grouse) I would like to see that money go into pheasants, habitat or something other than general revenue.

[6tmile]

I understand the difference in price between the Canadian Pheasant Company and the cheapest US supplier is in the region of $2 per/bird. If paying the extra $2 to "Buy Albertan" means that 18,000 pheasants are released instead of 20,000..... well I am okay with that, and I think most other Albertans would be good with it as well.


Someone please correct me if im wrong, didnt we just send our arrogant brothern to the south a bunch of bighorn sheep and didnt we send them wolves and probably another few critters ALL FOR FREE. Maybe they should send us a couple hundred thousand pheasants. The gubmint should do some old fashioned "hoss trading". Fifty bighorn for 5000 pheasants. Good trade

[Pudelpointer]

Don't think there are any government run hatcheries involved.

[silver lab]

[QUOTE=Pudelpointer;1354406]I understand the difference in price between the Canadian Pheasant Company and the cheapest US supplier is in the region of $2 per/bird. If paying the extra $2 to "Buy Albertan" means that 18,000 pheasants are released instead of 20,000..... well I am okay with that, and I think most other Albertans would be good with it as well.

Are you sayin that it is cheaper (2 bucks a bird) to get Pheasants from Wisconsin then right here in Alberta?? Would that be another Alberta advantage? Who else buys from CPC? Maybe they stuck there own foot in there mouth. I don't hunt them but would love to see the program continue. I will send my letters like everyone should but man 2 bucks a bird.....From Wisconsin?? I geuss if they come up with the funds the CPC better come up with a better price.

[top predator]

From my understanding the CPC is very near bankrupt.

[wwbirds]

the $2. cheaper is an estimate and before crating shipping expenses
Rob

[Pudelpointer]

Are you sayin that it is cheaper (2 bucks a bird) to get Pheasants from Wisconsin then right here in Alberta?? Would that be another Alberta advantage? Who else buys from CPC? Maybe they stuck there own foot in there mouth. I don't hunt them but would love to see the program continue. I will send my letters like everyone should but man 2 bucks a bird.....From Wisconsin?? I geuss if they come up with the funds the CPC better come up with a better price.

Everything costs more here. Housing is 100% more expensive (at least) then most of the US. Farming is subsidized. Fuel is taxed less. Everything is taxed less!

As for $2 cheaper; I can not imagine how it will possibly end up being cheaper when we look at $/rooster released. With shipping issues and mortality (as WWbirds explained) I think at best the price would be even, and if there was even the slightest hitch, it would cost a lot more to use US birds in the end.

[wwbirds]

Before I went full time on my art and the bird farm I was an accountant for over 20 years so calculated the cost of raising a bird to 16 weeks of age (fully feathered and filled out) in about 2002. It came to about $12.40 with electricity for incubation, brooders supplements and feed.
Large producers buying feed and other supplies and with supplemented hydro in the US might bring that down to $10. a pheasant (used to be $9. bird in US wholesale price)

those prices would be significantly higher now just with increases (doubled) for a kwh of power and significant increased in feed wheat and pellets. Those prices did not include and capital costs for internal holding pens, outside pens incubators etc which are very necessary and something Alberta Government or the UBA would have to own in order to proceed with bringing birds in from US at any age and brooding themselves or bringing in adults and holding them in pens for weekly releases.

Using a US bid is a bargaining chip only and has been done for the past 20-30 years in the pheasant business. When Ricards were operating in Pefferlaw every restaurant in Calgary wanted local producers to match his $12. pheasant price they could fly them in from Ontario for and only one producer tried (Dewinton) and he went out of business 2 years later.
Several dog clubs have looked at bringing birds in from the US to save money only to find out that appropriate sized holding pens cost $6500. each to house 1000 pheasants.

Even if CPC charged $17 per bird by the time the shipping costs (air freight) veterinary permits and losses from stress on birds from Wisconsin were added up I am sure they would be over $20 per surviving pheasant.

[Pudelpointer]

To be clear, I have NO IDEA what the bid prices came in at, just what the difference was.

My $17 figure I pulled right out of my a**. It may be more (likely) or it may be less (as WW pointed out, highly unlikely). I just figured we needed some numbers for comparison.

[ishootbambi]

To be clear, I have NO IDEA what the bid prices came in at, just what the difference was.

My $17 figure I pulled right out of my a**. It may be more (likely) or it may be less (as WW pointed out, highly unlikely). I just figured we needed some numbers for comparison.

25 was the last price i heard...and that was a couple years ago already.

[ksteed17]

I've done my part the wind blew the roof off my barn and released about 70 birds!:sign0176:

[Pudelpointer]

I've done my part the wind blew the roof off my barn and released about 70 birds!:sign0176:

Sorry, but that made me laugh.

[ksteed17]

Sorry, but that made me laugh.

Ya it was nuts. As you know it's been crazy windy down here this year so I go out to check on the birds open the door and they're all gone!! It took me a few seconds till I realized it was so bright in there and the roof was gone ha ha. But I figure this was probably the best winter for that to happen. Quite a few have made it through so far.

[rhuntley12]

I bought pheasant license last year but didn't hunt them. I was going to try a release site but from what I've heard it's no fun.

Growing up in Idaho hunting pheasants was so much fun, along with quail and chukars.

Why don't they release the pheasants in the spring or before breeding instead of just releasing them to get shot right off the truck? Seems would be cheaper just to release some chickens for people to shoot....

[Pudelpointer]

Why don't they release the pheasants in the spring or before breeding instead of just releasing them to get shot right off the truck? Seems would be cheaper just to release some chickens for people to shoot....

There was a Hen release program for a couple (2 or 3) years, but it was more of a pilot project. I do not remember how many hens they released, but from all observations the survival was pretty low. The return on investment was not studied in any significant way, so there was no way to quantify whether or not it was a good program.

Last spring we observed a few roosters around the release sites and popular hunting areas, but zero hens. I proposed to the LFGA that we spend a few thousand and buy some hens; it was likely they would have very poor survival, but at that point it was better than doing SFA. We ended up buying 100 hens and released them in various locales north, east and south of Lethbridge.

Don't know if it helped much, but I heard a few reports of clutches and hens around.

I would like to do it again this year, and I know the CPC has 2-3000 hens they would sell. I think they want $15 per if buying small amounts, but maybe if the clubs could get together and buy 1000 or so they could get the price down a few dollars.

Anyone want to organize something?


Has anyone else written any letters?

[Faststeel]

The Alberta border is generally north of the generally accepted prime habitat for pheasants. it is not the cold but access to food that affects the ability to survive. Most pheasants will not scratch down more that 6-8 inches through snow cover to reach food so in years of heavy snow Montana and the Dakotas lose pheasants along with antelope who share the inability of feeding through snow stigma. in good years pheasants could survive in Sedgewick, Killam areas and the old provincial truck used to go to Buffalo Lake and nearly to Edmonton for some release sites. the odds of survival for year after year are directly related to snow fall, drifting and availability of cover and feed.
Having said that the current stocking is restricted to a few bucks for wildlife sites in southern Alberta so I doubt any amount of lobbying would result in stocking in the more marginal habitat away from the Brooks area. Cost of running the truck up to those areas would be very prohibitive.

Heck when I was a kid my dad and his gang went pheasant hunting in the Camrose area and brought home many birds, this would have been 46 years ago, give er take. FS

[jrs]

There was a Hen release program for a couple (2 or 3) years, but it was more of a pilot project. I do not remember how many hens they released, but from all observations the survival was pretty low. The return on investment was not studied in any significant way, so there was no way to quantify whether or not it was a good program.

Last spring we observed a few roosters around the release sites and popular hunting areas, but zero hens. I proposed to the LFGA that we spend a few thousand and buy some hens; it was likely they would have very poor survival, but at that point it was better than doing SFA. We ended up buying 100 hens and released them in various locales north, east and south of Lethbridge.

Don't know if it helped much, but I heard a few reports of clutches and hens around.

I would like to do it again this year, and I know the CPC has 2-3000 hens they would sell. I think they want $15 per if buying small amounts, but maybe if the clubs could get together and buy 1000 or so they could get the price down a few dollars.

Anyone want to organize something?


Has anyone else written any letters?

In another year or two id consider chipping in for a few to release around our land. I'm kind of hoping a few find it by themselves before that. I'm a bit doubtful of the cover quality still, as the trees/ shrubs are still a bit on the smallish size if a harsh winter hits. Nesting habitat wise though, the grass and weeds are more than capable after a few wet years in a row here.

Across the south, I still think cover is the main issue, and we need to make more concerted efforts to re-establish shelter-belts and habitat islands if we want to see more birds around. I'm researching a bit so i can write a letter soon. I will admit at the $20 a rooster it costs to release them i don't think its the route to take into the future. I do understand there isn't much choice at the release sites further north but then again, maybe pheasants only belong where they can survive winter.

[wwbirds]

when the province was operating the hatchery not only were the release sites more to the north but every individual and 4 H club that wanted them could get 25 free day old chicks to release on their farm or acreage with good cover. many of these birds survived and reproduced and spillled over into hunting areas. Now they are stocked pretty much only in hunting areas and have to survive in order to populate hunting areas without much if any spill over to surrounding lands. Many of us favor the old method and think put and take of mostly roosters will never result in any natural hatch. Seems hen releases are promoted by clubs and individuals but the province has never considered releasing hens since you cant shoot them. Seems they have different priorities.

[Pudelpointer]

when the province was operating the hatchery not only were the release sites more to the north but every individual and 4 H club that wanted them could get 25 free day old chicks to release on their farm or acreage with good cover. many of these birds survived and reproduced and spillled over into hunting areas. Now they are stocked pretty much only in hunting areas and have to survive in order to populate hunting areas without much if any spill over to surrounding lands. Many of us favor the old method and think put and take of mostly roosters will never result in any natural hatch. Seems hen releases are promoted by clubs and individuals but the province has never considered releasing hens since you cant shoot them. Seems they have different priorities.

They did release hens in the south for at least 2 years (IIRC it was 3) in partnership with the ACA (IIRC). I was involved in a couple of those releases.

The main failure of that program was that the hens they released were "post-laying" hens, meaning most had been laying under lights for a month or more before being released. Most of the hens were in poor condition and survival was very low from all observations. But of course the release was done without a scientifically rigorous study to look at whether it was a good return on investment. Did it help "natural" pheasant production on the landscape? We will never know.

The hens CPC has right now are about to start laying, not finishing.

The 100 hens the LFGA released last year were in excellent condition and were released at the very start of the laying season. Anecdotal evidence suggests that a few birds at most of the sites survived and/or had a clutch. We were very lucky in that the day I released the hens was the last cold day we had last year. The following day it turned sunny and dry, and stayed that way for the better part of a month. Also, the sweet clover growth in our area was epic; it provided excellent brooding cover for chicks.

[sheephunter]

They did release hens in the south for at least 2 years (IIRC it was 3) in partnership with the ACA (IIRC). I was involved in a couple of those releases.

The main failure of that program was that the hens they released were "post-laying" hens, meaning most had been laying under lights for a month or more before being released. Most of the hens were in poor condition and survival was very low from all observations. But of course the release was done without a scientifically rigorous study to look at whether it was a good return on investment. Did it help "natural" pheasant production on the landscape? We will never know.

The hens CPC has right now are about to start laying, not finishing.

The 100 hens the LFGA released last year were in excellent condition and were released at the very start of the laying season. Anecdotal evidence suggests that a few birds at most of the sites survived and/or had a clutch. We were very lucky in that the day I released the hens was the last cold day we had last year. The following day it turned sunny and dry, and stayed that way for the better part of a month. Also, the sweet clover growth in our area was epic; it provided excellent brooding cover for chicks.

The project was five years long and it was done in partnership with the AFGA and SRD, not ACA. Many AFGA clubs across the south generously donated their time and equipment to release the hens into suitable habitat. While the release did take place a bit late one spring due to government red tape, the other releases were all completed before the hens began laying to maximize their production. A number of the clubs also purchased some roosters with help from the Minister's Special Licence funds to help augment the number of breeding roosters. It is too bad the government never followed up with some research on survival...it was the perfect opportunity. A total of 20,000 hens were released....4,000 per year for each of the five years. Anecdotally there did seem to be a really increase in pheasant populations for a couple years in the release areas.

[FCLightning]

Heck when I was a kid my dad and his gang went pheasant hunting in the Camrose area and brought home many birds, this would have been 46 years ago, give er take. FS

You mean when the hatchery was in full operation raising some 100,000 birds per year for release in addition to all the birds being turned out by Fish and Game clubs, 4H clubs and private individuals.

[sheephunter]

Seems hen releases are promoted by clubs and individuals but the province has never considered releasing hens since you cant shoot them. Seems they have different priorities.

Actually 20,000 hens were spring released between 2006-2010.

[packhuntr]

I just got my hands on 50 bred hens and released last weekend. Thanks ever so much to afew friends for access to some awfully tough to get birds, we are looking to see a certain fairly substantial microhabitat that has been a stronghold area hopefully make a comeback. Too bad about the release program. Going to be a whole lot of things change soon without it.

[wwbirds]

bred hens will lay fertile eggs for up to 6 days. After that they better find a rooster as they don't generally set until they accumulate 12-14 eggs. 25% fertile in a clutch with a 65 % hacth rate doesn't look very good statistically.

I don't know when these "spring hens" were released but "spent hens' would normally be available from a hatchery during or after June each year.
Current year productive hens would need to be out right now for they will be nesting within the next 2-3 weeks.

[sheephunter]

bred hens will lay fertile eggs for up to 6 days. After that they better find a rooster as they don't generally set until they accumulate 12-14 eggs. 25% fertile in a clutch with a 65 % hacth rate doesn't look very good statistically.

I don't know when these "spring hens" were released but "spent hens' would normally be available from a hatchery during or after June each year.
Current year productive hens would need to be out right now for they will be nesting within the next 2-3 weeks.

Other than the one spring I referenced, they were released in the first week of April. The point of the release was to release "fertile"...not "spent" hens. The biologists involved figured there was a balancing act between getting them out too early and facing bad weather and getting them out early enough so they would still nest. They figured late March/early April was ideal. Nice to see you agree.

[wwbirds]

Yes we are putting birds out for seed right now and started 2 weeks ago.

The biologist is correct about the balancing act as who can predict the weather in Alberta.

First of April would be a safe bet TJ although I have seen some brutal May wet snow storms that kills them dead.

Every little bit helps and even if only a few survive to breed, mixing up that bloodline creates a stronger bird.
We like to change up our bloodlines completely every 3rd year.

[cover]

Yes we are putting birds out for seed right now and started 2 weeks ago.

The biologist is correct about the balancing act as who can predict the weather in Alberta.

First of April would be a safe bet TJ although I have seen some brutal May wet snow storms that kills them dead.

Every little bit helps and even if only a few survive to breed, mixing up that bloodline creates a stronger bird.
We like to change up our bloodlines completely every 3rd year.

WWBirds... what is your opinion of the birds the CPC has been producing the last couple of years ? They are calling them Blue Backs. Is it the same hybrid as the Idaho blue backs ? In my experience they are about 1/3 the size of a chinese ringneck and are much better flyers. Also in talking with Ed at CPC he mentioned that they were able to produce a much better bird by changing the food ration. The downfall of changing the ration was the roosters did not produce long tail feathers. ( not a big deal IMO )
In your opinion how would be the best way to go about re-viving the 4-H program in which farmers/ranchers/producers raised and released birds ? Upland Birds Alberta (UBA) ? ACA , AFGA ? I think that it will be up to dedicated bird hunters to save the day much in the same way hunters saved many species from the abyss of market hunting at the turn of the century. But really how much can 6000 hunters do ? (from how many pheasant tags were sold last year )
I also think that if there is NO release program , of any kind , it will not be long before pheasant season is closed . With that being said a release program is useless without plenty of quality habitat . Dedicated bird hunters have a long row to hoe if things are to turn around. I guess it depends on how bad we want it. Or maybe it will just be easier to head south. Even in MT and ND/SD they release ALOT of birds , they just don't advertise it.

[covey ridge]

To be honestim a little divided on this issue. As drastic as it sounds, I actually would rather see no pheasants released in alberta and have the government allocate those dollars to more effective deer management.

I sort of agree with no pheasant released and do something to bring back native Alberta birds. If one wants to shoot pheasants they just have to give the business to a game farm. Pheasants released in the wild are about the same as released birds. Why not go to a place where you know there are birds. More action and cheaper in the long run.

[wwbirds]

Don't know much about what birds Ed is raising these days but was aware the old Brooks hatchery had afew bad years in the late 80's where they somehow got a hybred British bird. We saved a lot of ammo in those days as the dogs would pull them out of the tangles with no shots fired. Think it was 3 rooster limit in those days and 3 of us brought home 9 roosters without firing a shot.

No idea what diet would cause roosters not to grow a tail as it is usually a sign of crowding where they pick the tails of the nearest bird (hen or rooster) as it is blood filled and growing out. Feathers are protein based so unless he found a way to put meat on the bird without protein I haven't a clue what would cause what you describe. Pen size recommended in most literature suggests 10 square feet per bird but I have found 20 or more square feet per bird produces bigger birds faster with good feathering including tails. I only feed wheat, corn and turkey grower pellets while some producers in Ontario and Quebec have access to cheap millet and flax to get the protein up and grow good feathers. Minimum 17 percent protein is essential and I know of one producer down south who feeds turkeys a mixture of hemp seeds that can be as high as 40 %.

Idaho blue backs are notorious for double looping when they fly which makes them very appealing to shooters when they perform as they should but without a rudder (tail) I can't see it happening. I have had the blue backs from Magrath many years ago and while they were exciting to shoot they didn't over winter well in deep snow so I got out of them.

There are still associations like 4 H that buy day old chicks and raise them for release in Alberta. We participate in some locally and I know Oldgutpile in Brooks is involved in his area but it can never equal the thousands of chicks the provincial hatchery distributed free of charge to qualified individuals and clubs.
In my opinion if the SRD partnered with DU, PF and several other groups to establish habitat the money would be better spent. Then interested parties would have cover that would support he birds being released instead of put and take as it is pretty much now. Cover is key and the difference why Montana and the Dakotas have a healthy populations. Farmers are supplemented to provide it.

Look at it this way you own marginal land and pour 5000 into seeding and such for maybe a 5000 or so return or you do nothing and the above groups come in and do a one time plant of approriate forbes and receive a $2000. honorarium from the province every year if you allow PUBLIC hunting (not just your buddies) and maintain the habitat established. Your net is better with a CRP type program than struggling to get a return from marginal land.

[cover]

wwbirds.... In response to the tail feather growth... the roosters (blue backs) did have tail feathers (8-10" ) , they were just not really long like the roosters in years past (12-16" ). Little signs of picking. I have heard it said if road killed 'hoppers could be collected somehow they would make the best supplemental feed in terms of overall growth ! (body & feathers )

How is radically increasing the amount and quality of habitat possible ? I would guess that UBA has got some interesting information from the survey conducted last year , but I have not found or seen anything so far. What immediatly comes to mind is DU properties. I would think that planting food plots would be the cheapest/easiest way to hold/overwinter birds on most of the DU properties I am familiar with. From what I have seen there is lots of grass , just little or nothing to eat. There is too few ACA properties to make an appreciable difference ( besides the ones I visited last year were so overgrazed it was pathetic ) To purchase enough ACA properties to make a difference is likely not feasible. DU has the resources to make large scale purchases, but from what I have seen politics often gets in the way.

So what options remain ? As has been demonstated there is little appetite for paying landowners to improve and maintain habitat with the caveat of public access.

[cover]

I sort of agree with no pheasant released and do something to bring back native Alberta birds. If one wants to shoot pheasants they just have to give the business to a game farm. Pheasants released in the wild are about the same as released birds. Why not go to a place where you know there are birds. More action and cheaper in the long run.

Bring back native Alberta birds ? Not sure which species you think need to be brought back.:confused: The only native upland birds in Alberta are the forest grouse of the mountains and foothills. Sharptails are native prairie/parkland birds. And they need large expanses of native prairie to flourish. I don't think you are going to see croplands returned to native prairie anytime soon. Which is why pheasants and Hungarian partridge were introduced in the first place. They were more suited to the large scale agriculture lands we created. I don't think I need to mention Sage grouse as they are all but exterpated.

[packhuntr]

Make sure not to forget the pinnated grouse while your at it Cover. There is a list as long as your arm of species at risk. Not one has value enough to promote change for the better. The cold fact is things are going in the toilet and fast. Without some type of system where by land owners are compensated for maintaining habitats for ALL species benefit, shes a disgusting, sad, losing battle for the future. The UBA and anyone else that cares about such things unfortunately might as well try to pi** up a rope for all any efforts are going to be worth.

[cover]

Make sure not to forget the pinnated grouse while your at it Cover. There is a list as long as your arm of species at risk. Not one has value enough to promote change for the better. The cold fact is things are going in the toilet and fast. Without some type of system where by land owners are compensated for maintaining habitats for ALL species benefit, shes a disgusting, sad, losing battle for the future. The UBA and anyone else that cares about such things unfortunately might as well try to pi** up a rope for all any efforts are going to be worth.

Yup...... guns and bird dogs for sale... but maybe that is what this government wanted all along.....to make things so s$!tty that people just pack it in. One less " special interest " group to worry about . That way they can get on with screwing the rest of the population over.

[cover]

Make sure not to forget the pinnated grouse while your at it Cover. There is a list as long as your arm of species at risk. Not one has value enough to promote change for the better. The cold fact is things are going in the toilet and fast. Without some type of system where by land owners are compensated for maintaining habitats for ALL species benefit, shes a disgusting, sad, losing battle for the future. The UBA and anyone else that cares about such things unfortunately might as well try to pi** up a rope for all any efforts are going to be worth.

Especially when there were 6000 pheasant licences sold last year. 14 000 were sold just a few short years ago. Upland Birds Alberta survey was completed by 1300 hunters . Although it exceeded UBA's expectations it is very telling that very few dedicated bird hunters are left , and fewer that give a $#!!

What I have never understood , and is very maddening , is why the revenue from pheasant licences is not directly put back to support the resource . Instead it is put into general revenue to buy bandaids , pave roads or pay MLA's to sit on " commitees ".

[sheephunter]

What I have never understood , and is very maddening , is why the revenue from pheasant licences is not directly put back to support the resource .

Unfortunately, the revenue from the pheasant licence wouldn't even come close to covering the release costs. That's one of those be careful what you ask for scenarios. There are many other economic benefits of pheasant hunting to the province but the special licence doesn't come close to covering the cost of releasing pheasants in Alberta.

[covey ridge]

Bring back native Alberta birds ? Not sure which species you think need to be brought back.:confused: The only native upland birds in Alberta are the forest grouse of the mountains and foothills. Sharptails are native prairie/parkland birds. And they need large expanses of native prairie to flourish. I don't think you are going to see croplands returned to native prairie anytime soon. Which is why pheasants and Hungarian partridge were introduced in the first place. They were more suited to the large scale agriculture lands we created. I don't think I need to mention Sage grouse as they are all but exterpated.

Yep thems the ones + prairie chicken. I know their range may be small, but lets not let it go altogether. I would rather put my money there than plant roosters for the road hunters and the guys that wait for the truck. For those who want to shoot pheasants, let them pay for them at the pheasant farms.

[covey ridge]

So what options remain ? As has been demonstated there is little appetite for paying landowners to improve and maintain habitat with the caveat of public access.

That is the option. Habitat is the only way to have a wild born population of any amount. Got to make it work. I do not want to pay for put and take out my money especially when I think of the quality or lack of quality of the hunt.
For those who want to shoot pheasants let them pay and go where they know there are pheasants.

[cover]

Unfortunately, the revenue from the pheasant licence wouldn't even come close to covering the release costs. That's one of those be careful what you ask for scenarios. There are many other economic benefits of pheasant hunting to the province but the special licence doesn't come close to covering the cost of releasing pheasants in Alberta.

If you notice I chose the word " support " not "cover"

[sheephunter]

If you notice I chose the word " support " not "cover"

I guess at the end of the day the licence fees do support the release....regardless of how the money is funnelled. My point is that the selling of pheasant licences with never cover the cost of the release. The other economic benefits need to be addressed. That's the problem with pigeon holing money from one user group to one cause...there are typically far more benfactors than than one group paying. I think money going into general revenue is fine...as long as more comes back out as is the case with pheasants and virtually all wildlife management.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE]some type of system where by land owners are compensated for maintaining habitats for ALL species benefit, I think this is key.

Put and take pheasants are just a symtom of our bad state of affairs. I for one do not want to throw any money down that dark hole.

[cover]

I guess at the end of the day the licence fees do support the release....regardless of how the money is funnelled. My point is that the selling of pheasant licences with never cover the cost of the release. The other economic benefits need to be addressed. That's the problem with pigeon holing money from one user group to one cause...there are typically far more benfactors than than one group paying. I think money going into general revenue is fine...as long as more comes back out as is the case with pheasants and virtually all wildlife management.

I agree that creating and improving habitat is the best and really only option . How that will be accomplished is the question . And it can be applied to ALL species of wildlife not just upland birds. I have read about ACA's efforts to improve ruffed grouse habitat by spreading gritting material on cutlines to concentrate birds. But forest grouse species are cyclical in nature and are region specific as to where in the 7 year cycle they are.

In response to "... pigeon holing money from one user group to one cause... "
can we not use the example and extrapolate this idea to the elk/deer farming industry at the expense/risk of introducing blue tongue/CWD to wild populations as well as moving ungulates to the portfolio of agriculture from SRD ? ( if posters want to respond to ungulates please direct comments to " Hunt farms " and walking buffalo's hard work and dedication to this matter ... so as not to derail this thread )

[cover]

[QUOTE]some type of system where by land owners are compensated for maintaining habitats for ALL species benefit, I think this is key.

Put and take pheasants are just a symtom of our bad state of affairs. I for one do not want to throw any money down that dark hole.

Agree completely. A system like the CRP program stateside where MARGINAL land is taken out of production and dedicated to wildlife habitat has been proven very successful. What is a forgotten aspect to all of this is a healthy ecosystem is beneficial for everybody , not just hunters.

[cover]

I guess at the end of the day the licence fees do support the release....regardless of how the money is funnelled. My point is that the selling of pheasant licences with never cover the cost of the release. The other economic benefits need to be addressed. That's the problem with pigeon holing money from one user group to one cause...there are typically far more benfactors than than one group paying. I think money going into general revenue is fine...as long as more comes back out as is the case with pheasants and virtually all wildlife management.

If I recall one of the questions asked in the UBA survey was how much would you be willing to pay for a pheasant licence ? If for example if a licence was dramatically increased to say $ 100.00 for arguments sake and using a figure of 15 000 licences that were sold a few years ago that would be 1.5 million dollars.
I would think that would go along way to keeping the hatchery in Brooks in business as well as at least releasing some birds with emphasis on purchasing/improving habitat.

[avb3]

Back in the late 1990's the AFGA thought we had a deal made for the hatchery. We had an appraisal done, had financing of over $750,000 lined up, had partners willing to take part of the space and even had volunteers who would repair the water line that needed repairing.

We thought the deal was ours.

Then local MLA Lyle Oberg and his buddy Chuck Fuller of Earl Restaurant fame got involved. Guess who ended up with the hatchery? Yup, Mr. Fuller. He got a 5 year agreement for virtually nothing to try and make it fly. Instead, Mr. Fuller flew the coop.

So, fast forward to now.

Fuller is out. But guess who is a board member of the Canadian Pheasant Company now? Former MLA Oberg.

[cover]

Back in the late 1990's the AFGA thought we had a deal made for the hatchery. We had an appraisal done, had financing of over $750,000 lined up, had partners willing to take part of the space and even had volunteers who would repair the water line that needed repairing.

We thought the deal was ours.

Then local MLA Lyle Oberg and his buddy Chuck Fuller of Earl Restaurant fame got involved. Guess who ended up with the hatchery? Yup, Mr. Fuller. He got a 5 year agreement for virtually nothing to try and make it fly. Instead, Mr. Fuller flew the coop.

So, fast forward to now.

Fuller is out. But guess who is a board member of the Canadian Pheasant Company now? Former MLA Oberg.

Thanks for your insight. Very interesting. It is evident that discussions like these shed light on what really goes on. Thanks again and please add your opinions on how existing habitats can be improved , more habitat purchased and finally instituting a CRP like program .

[sheephunter]

If I recall one of the questions asked in the UBA survey was how much would you be willing to pay for a pheasant licence ? If for example if a licence was dramatically increased to say $ 100.00 for arguments sake and using a figure of 15 000 licences that were sold a few years ago that would be 1.5 million dollars.
I would think that would go along way to keeping the hatchery in Brooks in business as well as at least releasing some birds with emphasis on purchasing/improving habitat.

I agree but I seriously doubt there are 15,000 pheasant hunters in Alberta willing to shell out $100...maybe but I doubt you'd see but a small fraction shell out that kind of cash. I'd rather see some of the other groups that benefit add to the pot than make it user pay.

[cover]

I agree but I seriously doubt there are 15,000 pheasant hunters in Alberta willing to shell out $100...maybe but I doubt you'd see but a small fraction shell out that kind of cash. I'd rather see some of the other groups that benefit add to the pot than make it user pay.

Maybe you could elaborate on other benefitting user groups you are alluding to ?
I guess it comes down to declining hunter numbers and how much those remaining want it. It seems contradictory to me that hunters will pay $ 300.00- $ 400.00 for a DAY at the preserve , but will balk at $100.00 for a licence ? Just trying to learn and educate myself of the issues.
Thanks for your input.

[sheephunter]

Maybe you could elaborate on other benefitting user groups you are alluding to ?
I guess it comes down to declining hunter numbers and how much those remaining want it. It seems contradictory to me that hunters will pay $ 300.00- $ 400.00 for a DAY at the preserve , but will balk at $100.00 for a licence ? Just trying to learn and educate myself of the issues.
Thanks for your input.

Biggest benefit is the economic boom for small towns and businesses across southern Alberta.

[catnthehat]

Biggest benefit is the economic boom for small towns and businesses across southern Alberta.
I knw when we were at brooks last year there were a number of hunting parties besides ours that were staying at the motel.
Cat

[packhuntr]

It would be a scary number no doubt. There are some people that play large scale roles in this pheasant situation that would have a pretty good idea just how much money pheasant have rolled into this province, not including interprovincial hunters! Couldnt imagine what those figures combined would look like in a year. How much money does camp wainwright hunt bring into that town in a year? Big number no doubt, how about the new buffalo hunt and High Level, or whitetail hunters to Lac LaBiche? Pheasant have been a big thing. A very good thing is dying. What a loss. What a shame.

[covey ridge]

I agree but I seriously doubt there are 15,000 pheasant hunters in Alberta willing to shell out $100...maybe but I doubt you'd see but a small fraction shell out that kind of cash. I'd rather see some of the other groups that benefit add to the pot than make it user pay.

I would pay that amount and even 3 or 4 times more if I were to stand a good chance of getting some quality old style bird populations. I will not pay $0.01 for put and release birds and have to go anywhere near some put and release shooters. I would happily pay any reasonable amount of sur charge on any licence if I was assured that it would go 100% to creating habitat for all game birds/animals. Right now I do not trust any present government to do that! I see we have an election comming up. I wonder where the candidates stand?

[avb3]

Thanks for your insight. Very interesting. It is evident that discussions like these shed light on what really goes on. Thanks again and please add your opinions on how existing habitats can be improved , more habitat purchased and finally instituting a CRP like program .

If your talking about pheasant habitat in the irrigated prairie, it can't come back. What made great habitat made for very wasteful irrigation canals. They leaked water, the willows and other vegetation pheasants used ate up more, and the Irrigation Districts had to change their practices.

They lined the ditches, and now are even using pipelines, which will likely expand, so there is no evaporation loses.

The CRP program in the States is a very expensive program whose primary purpose was not to provide habitat, but to pay farmers not to plant crops. The side benefit was habitat that was conducive to wildlife, and in areas such as the Dakotas, pheasants in particular benefited.

We will not see such a program in Canada. Agriculture is a provincial jurisdiction, and as you may know, the CRP program is a US federal program.

[cover]

Biggest benefit is the economic boom for small towns and businesses across southern Alberta.

Yes there is no doubt about that. Governments and municipalities have been trying to revive and stave off ghost towns for a long time now. The Taber pheasant festival is a great example of these initiatives. You only have to look at South Dakota to see the massive influx of cash during hunting season. I have read anywhere between $ 80 - 150 million . So how do you go about it NOT being user pay ? Bird watchers paying a watching fee ? Hikers paying a hiking fee ? The local Chamber of Commerce buying pheasant licences ? You pay to camp at a campground . You pay to spend a day at Banff or Jasper.These sorts of issues just seem to go around and around . Short of having a CRP like program how can it not be user pay ? Complex and confusing .

[sheephunter]

Not at all, the government should pay and then they reap the benefits from the additional taxes they collect from fuel, hotels, business taxes etc. It's a simple business model that the government is ignoring. Oberle seemed to be dancing around it at his address to the AFGA delegates but never came right out and said. Let's have the government treat SRD like a business. I think they might be surprised at the revenue generated by a little investment. No wonder this province is broke. If I ran my business that way I would be too. Often investment is the best source of income.

[cover]

I knw when we were at brooks last year there were a number of hunting parties besides ours that were staying at the motel.
Cat

I was not yet born to witness they hay days of Brooks in the 60's. But I did see the tail end of Brooks in the '80's when the hatchery was pounding out 100 000 birds a year . Although I was to young to hunt , I did tag along every chance I could. The hotels were full and the restaraunts always had hungary hunters having eggs and coffee after they got their 3 birds , very often before noon.
I guess time will tell if another or expanded version of the Taber festival happens this fall. UBA and other organizations has recognized the potential of this and are at least trying.... something.

[cover]

Not at all, the government should pay and then they reap the benefits from the additional taxes they collect from fuel, hotels, business taxes etc. It's a simple business model that the government is ignoring. Oberle seemed to be dancing around it at his address to the AFGA delegates but never came right out and said. Let's have the government treat SRD like a business. I think they might be surprised at the revenue generated by a little investment. No wonder this province is broke. If I ran my business that way I would be too. Often investment is the best source of income.

Confused... the Government should pay what ?
The old addge " you have to spend money to make money " applies here.
Totally agree.

[sheephunter]

Confused... the Government should pay what ?

For the release birds.

[wwbirds]

It was tough to get a motel room in the Brooks Patrica area. In additon to buying licences 3-4 of us would hunt all over the area for 3 days or so

Most restaurants had some pheasant or waterfowl hunters.
Look at the business Joe in Patricia has created for his hotel.

Gasoline, meals, service shops for oil changes and tire repairs.

People often frequent Canadian Tire or some shop in Brooks to get a few more shells, pick up some other clothes or hunting supplies.

I know no one here would do it but we used to have a few drinks in the lounge in the evenings and often got tips on bird locations from the locals as everyone in the town was focused on pheasants at that time of year.

Many hunters won't be close to a town for a meal in mid day so some restaurants would do prepared box lunches.


I remember not that long ago many hunters from the US made the trip to Brooks as the Mecca for pheasants was in Alberta not south Dakota.

the licence fees from hunters are small compared to the tertiary industry benefits around the hunting locations.

[cover]

Not at all, the government should pay and then they reap the benefits from the additional taxes they collect from fuel, hotels, business taxes etc. It's a simple business model that the government is ignoring. Oberle seemed to be dancing around it at his address to the AFGA delegates but never came right out and said. Let's have the government treat SRD like a business. I think they might be surprised at the revenue generated by a little investment. No wonder this province is broke. If I ran my business that way I would be too. Often investment is the best source of income.

I have not yet made it to the annual AFGA meeting but will make it a priority next year if it is possible. Can anyone attend or just delegates ?
What was Oberle avoiding ? Please elaborate. Love learning about things I am passionate about. That being wild things and wild spaces. If I was not so passionate about it , I would have likely packed it in a while ago , like so so many other disenchanted hunters.
If treating SRD like a business , as in raming paid hunting down our collective throat , the government has certainly tried doing that.

[sheephunter]

I have not yet made it to the annual AFGA meeting but will make it a priority next year if it is possible. Can anyone attend or just delegates ?
What was Oberle avoiding ? Please elaborate. Love learning about things I am passionate about. That being wild things and wild spaces. If I was not so passionate about it , I would have likely packed it in a while ago , like so so many other disenchanted hunters.

Not sure he was avoiding anything...he was actually one of the first ministers I've heard say that he was going to treat SRD like a business and get more money from cabinet because of it. Hopefully things like the pheasant release were on his mind when he said it.

[cover]

If your talking about pheasant habitat in the irrigated prairie, it can't come back. What made great habitat made for very wasteful irrigation canals. They leaked water, the willows and other vegetation pheasants used ate up more, and the Irrigation Districts had to change their practices.

They lined the ditches, and now are even using pipelines, which will likely expand, so there is no evaporation loses.

The CRP program in the States is a very expensive program whose primary purpose was not to provide habitat, but to pay farmers not to plant crops. The side benefit was habitat that was conducive to wildlife, and in areas such as the Dakotas, pheasants in particular benefited.

We will not see such a program in Canada. Agriculture is a provincial jurisdiction, and as you may know, the CRP program is a US federal program.

I understand the whole irrigation/water conservation issue. Can't make anymore water afterall. But one thing that there is alot of is DU properties. Bought and paid for , so to speak. There is good grass cover at most of them . Plenty of thermal cattail cover. But the one common theme is a lack of high energy food available, within walking distance for birds. It is an important requirement as pheasnts will not fly back and forth any distance for food and water. They need to walk to food sources with good escape cover. It would seem a simple solution to plant food plots for them. Comments ?

[avb3]

I understand the whole irrigation/water conservation issue. Can't make anymore water afterall. But one thing that there is alot of is DU properties. Bought and paid for , so to speak. There is good grass cover at most of them . Plenty of thermal cattail cover. But the one common theme is a lack of high energy food available, within walking distance for birds. It is an important requirement as pheasnts will not fly back and forth any distance for food and water. They need to walk to food sources with good escape cover. It would seem a simple solution to plant food plots for them. Comments ?

I'm going to take a stab at this, and if anyone from DU or the AFGA habitat staff want to correct me, please do.

For the most part the DU/AFGA/ACA/Nature Conservatory lands are intended to provide native habitat. Often they are native to start, or management of the lands are such that the goal is to return to native habitat.

Some of the lands may have pasture or crop lands that exist. Management plans that are drawn up may include the continued use of that, but not necessarily so.

I am not aware of ANY habitat lands whereby existing native habitat is converted to agricultural use, and I would doubt the mandates of the four organizations would allow that.

There may always be an exception to the rule, but it certainly would not be the practice. After all, those lands are managed for wildlife habitat, and not single species.

[cover]

I'm going to take a stab at this, and if anyone from DU or the AFGA habitat staff want to correct me, please do.

For the most part the DU/AFGA/ACA/Nature Conservatory lands are intended to provide native habitat. Often they are native to start, or management of the lands are such that the goal is to return to native habitat.

Some of the lands may have pasture or crop lands that exist. Management plans that are drawn up may include the continued use of that, but not necessarily so.

I am not aware of ANY habitat lands whereby existing native habitat is converted to agricultural use, and I would doubt the mandates of the four organizations would allow that.

There may always be an exception to the rule, but it certainly would not be the practice. After all, those lands are managed for wildlife habitat, and not single species.


DU properties are managed nesting sites for waterfowl and changing / ammending that would not likely be possible or warrented in most cases. However I should have been more specific in my inquiry. They are all bordered by agricultural land or grazing and /or leases for the most part. I would think that enhancing the perimeter areas with cover/food plots would be something cost effective. An example of the flora would be kale or milo. There are many other pheasant friendly plants with the common theme being excellent bug producing microclimates , a key factor. But it is my understanding that the growing season for milo is too short here. An advantage I see in milo is that the high energy seed heads will stick above the snow drifts. It looks much like corn in its structure but does not grow as high. Another is "tumble weeds". I always forget the name , but they used to farm it in Brooks. It is also what is present in the pens at the hatchery in Brooks. It is a high energy food source as well as good hiding/ escape cover.

[joshcat]

About the milo we are planting a strain here for our pheasant preserve that is coming to seed no problem. Also I am working on a few DU locations up here to test out pheasant releases. I released 30 in my area here as a test and people have been monitoring them. So far So good. The only problem with pheasants in my area is predators. The hens are very susceptible for some reason but the roosters have no problem evading. My solution is to boost the number of hens released in the spring this year. It is a total science project to prove to SRD in my area that a population is sustainable with some care put into habitat management. IE they are not going to offer any assistance So as I have mentioned before If hunters want to hunt pheasants then hunters ar going to have to do the labor and financing and door knocking to maintain a sustainable habitat and population. SO in a roundabout way it would be either put and take or preserve style hunting which so many are against.

[cover]

About the milo we are planting a strain here for our pheasant preserve that is coming to seed no problem. Also I am working on a few DU locations up here to test out pheasant releases. I released 30 in my area here as a test and people have been monitoring them. So far So good. The only problem with pheasants in my area is predators. The hens are very susceptible for some reason but the roosters have no problem evading. My solution is to boost the number of hens released in the spring this year. It is a total science project to prove to SRD in my area that a population is sustainable with some care put into habitat management. IE they are not going to offer any assistance So as I have mentioned before If hunters want to hunt pheasants then hunters ar going to have to do the labor and financing and door knocking to maintain a sustainable habitat and population. SO in a roundabout way it would be either put and take or preserve style hunting which so many are against.

Thanks for the information. I would be interested to know the strain of milo you are using and how/where you obtained it. What seems to be the predators doing the damage ? What are you doing on the DU properties ? Are you doing or allowed habitat enhancement on DU lands ? What are you refering to by door knocking ? I had no idea that there would be preserves in the Peace country.

[winger7mm]

I know I am nieve to this but how much land per quater section would need to be dedicated to habitat? In areas that already hold pheasant numbers, if land owners left a little bit of un-farmed land to the birds, how much would it cost them annually? The way I see it if each land owner left a 30' strip along one fence line that would create good habitat, no? Again I come from north alberta so the whole farming thing is new to me as well as the pheasant hunting. but honestly how much worth is the land to land owners? I am unsure of land dementions but if a land owner had one side of a 1/4 section left with un-touched (farmed, plowed) land in even 20-30 feet over the one fence line, and other land owners did the same. Would that not increase the cover and food for the birds? I dunno how long a 1/4 section is but the lenght of that plus 30' wide how much money could a land owner make off that??? I dunno, just bothers me how much people are out for money now-a-days, I know things are expensive but really, hunting is a HUGE part of albertas history why not keep that going?

[rhuntley12]

I don't think $100 for a license would be unreasonable if the population was being taken care of.

[packhuntr]

Not sure why the EID has to destroy all habitat where upgrades are being made to ditches, or new pipe installs. Much of this old growth cover could have easily been avoided with no obstuction. For that matter, even if it provided abit of obstruction, why not deal with it. They have a habitat dept, not sure if its just to look good or what, but when the entire annual budget is covered by cash flow from oil and gas producers, why would it be a difficult thing to ""practice what ya preach"". As far as license priceing, i see no issue with increased cost. Most all guys that would b*tch about such things have no problem dropping a crisp 100 dollar bill on ski pass tickets, hockey game tickets etc etc, the list goes on and on. For conservation and management of something ACTUALLY VALUABLE and worth caring about, no way, most will pi** and moan till the cows come home, some even quit hunting or angling all together. Maybe it affects over all numbers on paper, but guaranteed, with that little interest, these are the people causing all the issues we are dealing with in the field now on a daily basis anyways. They wether involved and caring or not should have to pay to keep these wild things on the landscape, get em at tax time. Bout high time some money went to preserving this stuff for tomorrow, and it aint just pheasant that need to be on the donations list. These things should not be seen as a burden by our elected, and there are alot of people that should be kicked right in the slats for what has been going on.

[jrs]

I know I am nieve to this but how much land per quater section would need to be dedicated to habitat? In areas that already hold pheasant numbers, if land owners left a little bit of un-farmed land to the birds, how much would it cost them annually? The way I see it if each land owner left a 30' strip along one fence line that would create good habitat, no? Again I come from north alberta so the whole farming thing is new to me as well as the pheasant hunting. but honestly how much worth is the land to land owners? I am unsure of land dementions but if a land owner had one side of a 1/4 section left with un-touched (farmed, plowed) land in even 20-30 feet over the one fence line, and other land owners did the same. Would that not increase the cover and food for the birds? I dunno how long a 1/4 section is but the lenght of that plus 30' wide how much money could a land owner make off that??? I dunno, just bothers me how much people are out for money now-a-days, I know things are expensive but really, hunting is a HUGE part of albertas history why not keep that going?

Going rate for dryland around our place is $45/acre/year rental. That's why we've seen a lot of land being turned back to production lately. We set about 30 to 40 acres of marginal land aside for habitat, farmers in the area just see it as wasted resources. Not many guys will create habitat for free, establishing woody cover in particular is a ton of effort down here, also a significant investment.

[wwbirds]

Is expensive to the farmer and very labour intensive. We hauled water in tanks for 3 years to get trees started and rototilled between rows for 2-3 years to control weeks along with sprays. 30 feet isn't enough unless everyone does it as that area is too easily hunted out by predators.

I have a game farm so can justify taking 50 feet out of production and double fencing to keep cattle out but the cost to grain farmers would be prohibitive without financial incentives.

Caragana is cheap hardy and self seeds in the prairies while many exotics must be restarted many times. We use a corn like plant in the pens (sudan sorghum) as it is used back east in hot humid climates and goes to 8 feet but we seldom see more than 5-6 feet here with cool nights and is expensive to plant each year.

Pheasants are quite capable of feeding on high proteini weed seeds without planting seed crops as feed. Putting regular feed areas out make feeding areas routine ambush areas for predators. Best to spread the weeds around than provide a feeding station area.

[Canuk]

Funny I would have expected this years budget = last years phesant licence revenue, since it is a special extra licence ove the cost od a regular game bird tag. why have the special licence if that revenue is not used to finance the program?

Arg!!!

Pheasant Lic is what... 15 bux? I can't remember.

Something like $8 goes to IBM for the cost of the actual licence (online service). That leaves 7 bux. Something like 5500 pheasant lic sold in 2011, x $7 is $38500... about $261,000 short of status quo.

Actually, I think ACA gets the other $7 so SRD is left with $.

The program can't pay for itself as it sits now.

[Canuk]

Maybe you could elaborate on other benefitting user groups you are alluding to ?
I guess it comes down to declining hunter numbers and how much those remaining want it. It seems contradictory to me that hunters will pay $ 300.00- $ 400.00 for a DAY at the preserve , but will balk at $100.00 for a licence ? Just trying to learn and educate myself of the issues.
Thanks for your input.

I good idea, but I think SH is right. we have only 5500 residents willing to spend $15. if raised to $100 I bet my lunch money you will see less than half that number come back (myslef included as I have yet to shoot a pheasant in alberta but buy a lic every year). Either way, the first step is to see that money generated from pheasant lic sales goes to the program.. it doesn't now.