Air Canada - working to rule?

[gilbertslake]

We finally made it back home from what had been a great trip to Florida, only to be hit with a spoiler from Air Canada.

So before we left for the ariport I did my diligence and checked flight status, weather etc and everything looked good. We boarded the aircraft in Orlando bound for our first leg destination, Toronto, a few minutes late and take off was about 15 minutes behid schedule. But time was made up in-flight and we arrived in TO a few minutes ahead of schedule. So we had more than an hour before our flight to Edmonton was due to leave so we thought, great, no cause for concern.
We were through the passport control and in the customs hall and waiting for our baggage, a good hour before our next flight. Then we waited and waited and waited for our baggage to arrive.
Finally, after half an hour it showed.
Straight to the baggage carousel for on-going baggage, but we were stopped and told that we had missed the allowable connection time (30minutes) 'by two minutes'. There were others behind being told the same thing. So we now had to line up for another 45 minutes to be re-booked. As a result we were faced with another 6 hours wait in TO and had to get a hotel for the night in Edmonton as we didn't get into Edmonton until 11pm and it was midnight before we go to Edmonton.

So what is the issue?

To miss a deadline by 2 minutes due to no fault of ours should have been considered as a just reason to hold the flight for 5 minutes. After all, on our outward flight, we sat in the aircraft for an additional 20 minutes awaiting connecting passengers (obviously the 30 minute rule was not applied then, so why now). The plane only needed be held for 5 minutes. But no, they wouldn't do it.

During both flights, Orlando-TO and TO - Edmonton, not once did the pilots speak to passengers as the usually do, no welcome, no announcement about travel time etc. When we arrived in TO and in Edmonton, the cabin/cockpit doors remained shut and the pilots stayed in the cockpit,. None of the usual goodbye and thanks for choosing Air Canada.

Of course,while waiting in line in TO for rescheduling, people were calling and texting trying to fid out what was happening.

Turns out the pilots were 'working to rule' and the ground staff were supporting them. One of the disgruntled passengers spoke on their cell phone to a relative who works for Air Canada and was told that what we were experiencing was a delibertate slow-down by Air Canada staff to disrupt service and bring about public displeasure with Air Canada to force them back to negotiations with the pilots.

It is so sad that the traveling public has to be used a pawns. For us it cost an extra $150 for a hotel for the night. Others probably fared worse.
There was a family of 4 returning from Disneyworld the kids wearing their Mickey Mouse ear hats and still full of the excitement of their trip. Little did they realize that their experience was to continue with a Mickey Mouse airline!

Now I know there are those who are going to get what you pay for etc etc

[Arachnodisiac]

I totally fell in hate with Air Canada on Tuesday.

My 35 minute flight to Lethbridge from Calgary was delayed by nearly two hours.

We were given no updates during the first hour of this wait. None. Not even an adjustment on the electronic monitor showing the flight schedules.

My employer booked this flight for me, and West Jet doesn't fly out of Lethbridge, but I can assure you that I will do whatever I can in the future to avoid this airline, even if I do appreciate the bilingual service.

[NFTrapper]

This is yet another example why I will never fly Air Canada for a personal flight. West Jet all the way. In my humble opinion, West Jet cares for their passengers. Air Canada needs a lession in proper customer service. I have had many run in's with Air Canada over the years and finally decided to start flying West Jet. That was 7 years ago and I will not go back. Friendly staff, attendents that SMILE and appear to enjoy their job, and reasonalbe rates. No other choice if you ask me.

Glad you made it home safe.

[Bob Lee Swagger]

Wow, and I thought it was just me. Delayed 3 times last year on 3 Air Canada flights. Sitting in the plane at the gate because; 1) short a flight attendant, have to wait for another one, 2) captain is ill, have to wait for another one, 3) Air Canada computer system is down, so no flight path information.


Sorry but three strikes and you are out. :fighting0007:

[Bound2Fish]

Anyone ever been sold a "fake boarding pass" from Air Canada? Happened to me last year. As I was trying to board the flight, yes I made it though security and all the way to the gate, they said I could not board the flight as I had a fake boarding pass and that I needed to go back out to the check in booth to get it straightened out. So out to the booth I go, tell them that apparently I was sold a fake boarding pass, which then that lady said I had to call the 1-800 number. Called and spoke to a nice lady there who laughed and said that was the first time she heard that one and did not like how AC ran their business because of things like this. She looked into it and it turns out they oversold the flight so I got the boot. The lady refunded my cash and I walked over to WJ and I was on my way 2 hours later. Never ever, will I fly AC I will take the bus if I have to.

[260 Rem]

IMO the Harper government needs to stay out of the whole Air Canada scene...period. AC is a private company and should sink or swim on its own. Government interference in labor negotiations stands in the way of resolving the long standing "bad blood" between management and unionized employees. Until such time as the internal issues are resolved, customers can expect a continuation of the frustrating inconveniences...and since there are alternatives to travel...passengers should subscribe to the "buyer beware" philosophy.

[doetracks]

...

To miss a deadline by 2 minutes due to no fault of ours should have been considered as a just reason to hold the flight for 5 minutes. After all, on our outward flight, we sat in the aircraft for an additional 20 minutes awaiting connecting passengers (obviously the 30 minute rule was not applied then, so why now). The plane only needed be held for 5 minutes. But no, they wouldn't do it.



Sadly, holding an airplane late for ANY reason generally results in huge logistics problems down the line. So, I can understand why they did NOT hold.

Having said that, I know AC has generally sucked for some time. I don't know what will come out of the contract talks. I just turned down an interview with them.. under $40 starting wage for 2-4 years for an experienced pilot?? No thanks.

[NFTrapper]

I think this story sums up Air Canada...

Happened I'd say 10 years ago when one of the air lines went bankrupt during the holiday season (Jetsgo, or Canada 3000 or something). My aunt was flying from Winnepeg to St. John's and due to weather issues missed her connection in T.O. Went to the counter to re-book her flight, was told she had to wait a week as all existing flights were full. So being very upset she started to plan to head back West as she didn't want to stay in T.O for a week. While making plans she over heard the same counter lady offer to sell a stranded passenger (from the bankrupt airline) an inflated price ($1200 for a one way ticket to St, John's) ticket for a plane leaving in 2 hrs!!! Needless to say, my Aunt (strong personality) ended up on that plane...

Costumer service at its best...

[Roughneck12]

There is no customer service at Air Can. They are so caught up in their dramas and unfortunatley protected because it was once a crown corp. AC should be allowed to sink so a better airline can rise from the ashes not burdened with decades of union crap.

[Mistagin]

Oh sure, WJ never has problems :rolleye2:
I've had delays with them too. I know people who have had their flights arbitrarily cancelled by WJ and they've been stuck for a couple of days due to no scheduled WJ flights for those intervening days.

Okay, so my wife works for AC Express (formerly Jazz). Since she started working for the airline I've learned a lot about the industry and how complicated it really is. Both of us were seriously delayed this week too. Due to fog in Kingston ON, fog in Toronto, snow in Ft McMurray, which meant we couldn't land safely and ended up going down to Edmonton, where we refueled, and tried again and got in 3 hours 'late' (but safe!!!).

Do you folks honestly understand just how complicated air travel is? Fog / freezing rain / snow / thunder & lightning storms in one part of the country can mess things up all across the country! And something as simple as a flat tire or warning light in the cockpit can, in the name of safety, cause disruptions across the country too. And when you or baggage has to go through customs any number of things can cause delays - and none of that is controlled by the airlines.

Yes, certain AC staff are likely 'working to rule' right now due to current labour 'negotiation' tactics. Maybe they should all be always 'working to rule' and not doing extra at anytime! Then nobody would expect more than the 'rule'.

Also, baggage is not handled by AC staff, it's handled by airport staff or contracted personnel. So it's unfair to blame AC for your baggage not getting through as fast as you would have liked. Perhaps there was a backlog due to heavy traffic. OP - you do know that it has been extremely busy due to March break travel don't you? When we went through TO on the 9th passenger traffic was 33% greater than normal.

BTW, on our flights (my wife took different ones than I did to get home from Ontario due to various reasons) the pilots and flight attendants did everything possible to keep us aware of what was happening, even providing extra snacks and drinks due to the delay situations we experienced.

Also, don't forget that AC has legislated rules they have to follow that none of their competitors have to abide by.

To the OP: it's too bad you fell afoul of the 30 minute 'flight closed' time. Once a flight is 'closed' 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure it's not easy to 'open' it again. However, often the airline will hold a flight for a few minutes if possible. They did that with my flight on Monday evening in TO so some people could make the connection. However, did you consider that maybe the flight you were 'late' for making the connection on had a lot of other people on it that had to get to Edmonton or wherever to make further connections? Sometimes they simply cannot hold a plane. Airlines also only have a certain 'window' during which a particular plane can occupy a gate then it has to leave so another can get in without taking delays. Like I said - it's complicated.

Either way, you got home safe and sound; hope you enjoyed your vacation.

[260 Rem]

Sadly, holding an airplane late for ANY reason generally results in huge logistics problems down the line. So, I can understand why they did NOT hold.

Having said that, I know AC has generally sucked for some time. I don't know what will come out of the contract talks. I just turned down an interview with them.. under $40 starting wage for 2-4 years for an experienced pilot?? No thanks.
Right seat in any commercial cockpit will pay poorly ...no different for lawyers or accountants who have to "put in time". Crappy system, but it is what it is. All the pilots in the left seat have put up with the low pay in the right seat for years...before they get the big bucks. No incentive for management to pay higher salaries if Harper says you got to work and can't withold your sevices.

[Okotokian]

If Air Canada worked to rule I'd be ecstatic.

[Arachnodisiac]

Actually, yes, there are definitely problems with pilot pay.

And I have no problem with being delayed. The lack of customer service explaining the situation was unacceptable.

[TomE]

If Air Canada worked to rule I'd be ecstatic.

We move roughly a 100,000 people a day, Can't please everyone..And Rach, the Airline flying to YQL is a "Tier 3" Contracted Airline..Air Georgian operating as Air Canada Express..I agree better Communication is required..I will Chime back in on the History of this Empty Shell Airline when I get a Chance..Should be an interesting thread..

[riden]

IMO the Harper government needs to stay out of the whole Air Canada scene...period. AC is a private company and should sink or swim on its own. Government interference in labor negotiations stands in the way of resolving the long standing "bad blood" between management and unionized employees. Until such time as the internal issues are resolved, customers can expect a continuation of the frustrating inconveniences...and since there are alternatives to travel...passengers should subscribe to the "buyer beware" philosophy.

I agree.

Harper really painted them into a bad spot. AC brass knew this was coming, so they didn't have to honestly negotiate.

[Okotokian]

We move roughly a 100,000 people a day, Can't please everyone...

Thanks. You've perfectly encapsulated the Air Canada customer service ethic.

I have to be fair though... I've been served by lots of good people there too. But overall.....

[gilbertslake]

Oh sure, WJ never has problems :rolleye2:
I've had delays with them too. I know people who have had their flights arbitrarily cancelled by WJ and they've been stuck for a couple of days due to no scheduled WJ flights for those intervening days.

Okay, so my wife works for AC Express (formerly Jazz). Since she started working for the airline I've learned a lot about the industry and how complicated it really is. Both of us were seriously delayed this week too. Due to fog in Kingston ON, fog in Toronto, snow in Ft McMurray, which meant we couldn't land safely and ended up going down to Edmonton, where we refueled, and tried again and got in 3 hours 'late' (but safe!!!).

Do you folks honestly understand just how complicated air travel is? Fog / freezing rain / snow / thunder & lightning storms in one part of the country can mess things up all across the country! And something as simple as a flat tire or warning light in the cockpit can, in the name of safety, cause disruptions across the country too. And when you or baggage has to go through customs any number of things can cause delays - and none of that is controlled by the airlines.

Yes, certain AC staff are likely 'working to rule' right now due to current labour 'negotiation' tactics. Maybe they should all be always 'working to rule' and not doing extra at anytime! Then nobody would expect more than the 'rule'.

Also, baggage is not handled by AC staff, it's handled by airport staff or contracted personnel. So it's unfair to blame AC for your baggage not getting through as fast as you would have liked. Perhaps there was a backlog due to heavy traffic. OP - you do know that it has been extremely busy due to March break travel don't you? When we went through TO on the 9th passenger traffic was 33% greater than normal.

BTW, on our flights (my wife took different ones than I did to get home from Ontario due to various reasons) the pilots and flight attendants did everything possible to keep us aware of what was happening, even providing extra snacks and drinks due to the delay situations we experienced.

Also, don't forget that AC has legislated rules they have to follow that none of their competitors have to abide by.

To the OP: it's too bad you fell afoul of the 30 minute 'flight closed' time. Once a flight is 'closed' 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure it's not easy to 'open' it again. However, often the airline will hold a flight for a few minutes if possible. They did that with my flight on Monday evening in TO so some people could make the connection. However, did you consider that maybe the flight you were 'late' for making the connection on had a lot of other people on it that had to get to Edmonton or wherever to make further connections? Sometimes they simply cannot hold a plane. Airlines also only have a certain 'window' during which a particular plane can occupy a gate then it has to leave so another can get in without taking delays. Like I said - it's complicated.

Either way, you got home safe and sound; hope you enjoyed your vacation.

So, all of this being true. Why on our outward flight did they hold a boarded plane for 20 minutes, not just a mere 5 that was needed in our case, in order to accomodate transferring passengers whose plane was late? The pilot's announcement ' lady's and gentlemen, we just have to keep the door open a bit longer to allow tranferring passengers, who's plane is late, to make their way here, we'll have you on your way as soon as they get here'. No differnt from our situation, except we were not as late as on that occasion!

Would that not also have caused logistics problems after the gate was closed?

We asked the agent who handled our re-ticketing in TO that question and she simply said 'that's a pilot decision'.

When we checked the actual departure time of our flight that we missed it was 7 minutes after the scheduled departure time.............we would easily have made it and within the 30 minute time frame.

And sorry, but I am not blaming the baggage handlers. Delays in that area happen all of the time. It is the cold, uncaring, disinterested attitude that greeted us at the tranfer belt that concerns us and that on that day, it seemed more than obvious that employess were calling the shots.

The call by one of the other stranded passengers to his relative, who worked for AC, more than confirmed that we were being deliberately dumped to make a point.

[elkoholik]

I fly on average on 75+ flights a year on various airlines and have to say that most airlines are the same, you get good and bad service from different crews on different airlines. AC has been good for international flight and have not experienced anything different from them than I have from other carriers. I would have to say that the American Airlines (Delta/US/Continental/American/Southwest) are by far the worst for gate closes, late arrivals and departures and most of all overbooking and bad customer service. AC may not be the best but we have to understand that in our country there are a lot of different conditions the pilots have to face and there are going to be disruptions. The customer service can improve but i have had similar experiences from WestJet, they have their good days and bad as well. I do believe the government should keep out of private companies affairs and if AC went on strike as much of a hassle as it would create maybe something would be resolved in the end. It definitely would disrupt things in a major way so be prepared for it if it does happen. A delay on a return trip home form a vacation may just cost you plenty more than you bargained for.

[jrs]

If Air Canada worked to rule I'd be ecstatic.

Agree fully there. I got stuck flying with them last trip as i waited too long to go west jet. Cost way more, the staff were awful, and i was delayed 3 hours heading calgary to vancouver with no announcement, apology, anything. THis was before the labor dispute. Never fly with them again!!
Contrast, last time i flew west jet there was a power outage and the plane was 5 minutes behind, they appologized and announced the slow down ahead of time.

[doetracks]

Right seat in any commercial cockpit will pay poorly ...no different for lawyers or accountants who have to "put in time". Crappy system, but it is what it is. All the pilots in the left seat have put up with the low pay in the right seat for years...before they get the big bucks. No incentive for management to pay higher salaries if Harper says you got to work and can't withold your sevices.

Yep, but after almost 20 years in commercial aviation.. I won't stoop to that level just to wear a fancy uniform and get flight passes. I've already put in my time.

[qballs]

Air Canada - We're not happy until you're not happy!!

[TomE]

Agree fully there. I got stuck flying with them last trip as i waited too long to go west jet. Cost way more, the staff were awful, and i was delayed 3 hours heading calgary to vancouver with no announcement, apology, anything. THis was before the labor dispute. Never fly with them again!!
Contrast, last time i flew west jet there was a power outage and the plane was 5 minutes behind, they appologized and announced the slow down ahead of time.

When? There's been Labor dispute since Last year...9 yrs of Neutral Contracts after a 1 Billion in Concession contract in 2003..Gov't legislated every employee group back to work..I agree Westjet has a grasp on Customer relations..AC is Hobbled in many ways..Where do I start..

[nekred]

Westjet still has hiccups...

Ledto an interesting adventure... flew out to Newfoundland to meet up with family and spend a week with them as they went out earlier...

Coming into St John's airport in the fog just drop out of fog see runway...and Plane speeds up and back into fog we go to Cornerborook, we land and sit for 30 miunutes then back to St John's.... Same thing but pilot tried twice...

Back to Cornerbrook... told we would be flown back to Toronta and we would have to catch another flight but no guarantee on getting on the next day!.... So a bunch of newfies on plane decide to phone for bus and drive across Island...

So away we go we charter a bus all chip in 50 bucks and away we go!...Stop at corner store... clean it out of beer and off we go for a 10 hour trip across the island... guitar and fiddle came out after a few pops and what a riot....

They loved teasing the mainlander... I get to St..Johns get dropped off at RV rental place at 5:00 amd and so I take my luggage and sleep on porch of RV office.... wake up at 7:30 with someone wondering what I was doing...

Introduced myself and said I was there for RV.... I got a strange look!... They were pretty cautious and I told them the story and they laughed...

Wrote a letter to Westjet and they explained there was rookie pilot but would not reimburse my travel fee across Newfoundland....or even give a discount fare or anything....

So westjet has issues too!... howver with their other customer service they usually do pretty well...

As for luggage things... I now findit cheaper to ship extra baggage by courier to my hotel than to take with me on plane!...

[TomE]

Thanks. You've perfectly encapsulated the Air Canada customer service ethic.

I have to be fair though... I've been served by lots of good people there too. But overall.....

You wouldn't have personally been served by me but I was pointing out a fact..Blame the employees..Not Mgmnt or Gov't..

[AbAngler]

Our family stopped flying AC a while ago. From check-in counter to flight crew, they all seem like we owed them. Very poor attitude from top to bottom. West Jet employees on the other hand have always been very friendly and accommodating. Doing their best to help.

I totally understand the workings of air travel and have no problems with delays/cancellations that have nothing to do with the airlines. 5hit happens to all of them. But the one on one interactions with company representatives is where I make my decisions. West Jet wins EVERY time.

[dantonsen]

Talk of chapter 11 kicking around, and what did air canada lose last quarter 279million? I doubt they have extra money kicking around to pay pilots and employees who strike, disrupt services, and turn off customers who bring in revenue to pay said employees.

grade 5 math... when the company you work for goes bankrupt all the time and looses hundreds of millions of dollars and provides no forward looking guidance for profitablility I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess they aren't the greatest company to go after for extra pay?

Aveos their maintenance and service provider just went belly up on tuesday, air canada will probably be belly up by the end of the year... at the current pace they could be a billion in the red by years end

[catnthehat]

We finally made it back home from what had been a great trip to Florida, only to be hit with a spoiler from Air Canada.

So before we left for the ariport I did my diligence and checked flight status, weather etc and everything looked good. We boarded the aircraft in Orlando bound for our first leg destination, Toronto, a few minutes late and take off was about 15 minutes behid schedule. But time was made up in-flight and we arrived in TO a few minutes ahead of schedule. So we had more than an hour before our flight to Edmonton was due to leave so we thought, great, no cause for concern.
We were through the passport control and in the customs hall and waiting for our baggage, a good hour before our next flight. Then we waited and waited and waited for our baggage to arrive.
Finally, after half an hour it showed.
Straight to the baggage carousel for on-going baggage, but we were stopped and told that we had missed the allowable connection time (30minutes) 'by two minutes'. There were others behind being told the same thing. So we now had to line up for another 45 minutes to be re-booked. As a result we were faced with another 6 hours wait in TO and had to get a hotel for the night in Edmonton as we didn't get into Edmonton until 11pm and it was midnight before we go to Edmonton.

So what is the issue?

To miss a deadline by 2 minutes due to no fault of ours should have been considered as a just reason to hold the flight for 5 minutes. After all, on our outward flight, we sat in the aircraft for an additional 20 minutes awaiting connecting passengers (obviously the 30 minute rule was not applied then, so why now). The plane only needed be held for 5 minutes. But no, they wouldn't do it.

During both flights, Orlando-TO and TO - Edmonton, not once did the pilots speak to passengers as the usually do, no welcome, no announcement about travel time etc. When we arrived in TO and in Edmonton, the cabin/cockpit doors remained shut and the pilots stayed in the cockpit,. None of the usual goodbye and thanks for choosing Air Canada.

Of course,while waiting in line in TO for rescheduling, people were calling and texting trying to fid out what was happening.

Turns out the pilots were 'working to rule' and the ground staff were supporting them. One of the disgruntled passengers spoke on their cell phone to a relative who works for Air Canada and was told that what we were experiencing was a delibertate slow-down by Air Canada staff to disrupt service and bring about public displeasure with Air Canada to force them back to negotiations with the pilots.

It is so sad that the traveling public has to be used a pawns. For us it cost an extra $150 for a hotel for the night. Others probably fared worse.
There was a family of 4 returning from Disneyworld the kids wearing their Mickey Mouse ear hats and still full of the excitement of their trip. Little did they realize that their experience was to continue with a Mickey Mouse airline!

Now I know there are those who are going to get what you pay for etc etc

Working to rule?
The same thing happened to my daughter last year on a trip to Europe only she had to overnight it in Calgary - no strike anywhere in sight!
Cat

[Bound2Fish]

Westjet still has hiccups...

Ledto an interesting adventure... flew out to Newfoundland to meet up with family and spend a week with them as they went out earlier...

Coming into St John's airport in the fog just drop out of fog see runway...and Plane speeds up and back into fog we go to Cornerborook, we land and sit for 30 miunutes then back to St John's.... Same thing but pilot tried twice...

Back to Cornerbrook... told we would be flown back to Toronta and we would have to catch another flight but no guarantee on getting on the next day!.... So a bunch of newfies on plane decide to phone for bus and drive across Island...

So away we go we charter a bus all chip in 50 bucks and away we go!...Stop at corner store... clean it out of beer and off we go for a 10 hour trip across the island... guitar and fiddle came out after a few pops and what a riot....

They loved teasing the mainlander... I get to St..Johns get dropped off at RV rental place at 5:00 amd and so I take my luggage and sleep on porch of RV office.... wake up at 7:30 with someone wondering what I was doing...

Introduced myself and said I was there for RV.... I got a strange look!... They were pretty cautious and I told them the story and they laughed...

Wrote a letter to Westjet and they explained there was rookie pilot but would not reimburse my travel fee across Newfoundland....or even give a discount fare or anything....

So westjet has issues too!... howver with their other customer service they usually do pretty well...

As for luggage things... I now findit cheaper to ship extra baggage by courier to my hotel than to take with me on plane!...

Not really a West Jet issue. More of a weather issue which they cannot cover. If it was their fault they would, but even you mentioned it was due to fog, and he did try twice to get you there.

[TomE]

1988 AC Privatized by Mulroney Gov't..Nice New Airbuses and over a Billion in USD and Yen..Clean slate..First order of Business..Drive Competition out of Business..Done...Have Monopoly..Next, Drive Unions to the Ground..Done by Declaring Bankruptcy on April 1st 2003...Unions took 1 Billion in Concessions, Money and Work rules..Next Emerge from Bankruptcy and Create ACE to "unlock" the "Value" of the Airline..Next..Sell Aeroplan..Done, Sell Jazz, Done Sell Air Canada Tech Services, now known as Aveos, (Adios Aveos) Done..9 yrs of Neutral contracts..pension underfunded by a Billion...All Employee Unions legislated back to work..Money not the Issue..Pension and Work Rules are for each union..all of the "Value" unlocked and Secreted away from Canada..Nothing put back into AC..Ace now winding up and distributing 300 million to the shareholders..Mr. Milton himself has recognized 80-100 Million Personally.I'm sure he's the only person in the world who has Gotten Rich from Bankrupting a Company. He's Currently starting a LCC in India..What's left? Some People and Airplanes..and the same Mgmnt..We are currently about equal payed as Westjet..AC 767 Driver and WJ 737 about the same..maint about the same but WJ one Acft type, AC has 5..Mech at AC need 5 Endorsements..Not a big deal but my point is the only diff is our Mgmnt and Executive Compensation..
Now with the Current Gov't help..The rest shall be Pillaged and Plundered..And I would not like any Pilot or mechanic in the World to "Bend" one Rule to carry mine or anyone's else's Butt around..Oh and Aveos? After a CIRB ruling in Jan 2012 stating it's a fine and Solvent Company, allowing the transfer and Split of the Employees, AC pulled it's Maint due to "Uncompetitive" Pricing and so it Declared itself Insolvent..2600 Workers who have spent 5-20 yrs receiving an AC Paycheck, Chucked to the Street..When Harper was asked to Intervene..he said he could not get involved in a "Private Company" Dispute..WTF? He just legislated every employee of a Publicly traded Company back to work..The Funny thing being, Jazz and Tier 3 carriers do our Remote Community Flying and are in no way affected by AC Labor disputes...Flame away, I have a pretty Think skin from "taking it on the chin" for years so Flame away..I will gladly answer any Logical Questions..:argue2:

[New Hunter Okotoks]

I was held up for 1/2 hour last weekend. I watched the ground guys stand there with their hands in their pockets talking while the luggage sat on the rack waiting to be loaded. (This was the 5:30A.M. flight out of Ft. Mac. to Calgary.)

After a period of time,they looked at their watches and THEN loaded the plane. They were obviously stalling. Once the plane landed in Calgary,we were held up again for another 15 min. before the ramp was brought to the Aircraft for passenger unloading.

All they are doing is pizzing off other working folk trying to get to work or trying to get home. I have no sympathy for them.

[big zeke]

Yesterday from Edmonton to Calgary, arrived at the counter (by my watch) 28 minutes before departure...the flight was delayed by 15 mins so I should be able to get on. The gal at the counter let me know there was no way to get on the flight and she could not issue a pass within 30 mins of departure - I told her the departure was 15 mins delayed and so I was within the 30 mins...she replied that is booked departure, not actual departure. Next available seat was a 7 hrs wait :(

Went to Hertz, rented a car, (they skipped the drop fee as I was getting a Calgary car that needed to ge back anyways) and was home 2 1/2 hrs later.

And they wonder why their passangers are crabby, perhaps they should extract their head from their loins and take a look.

Zeke

[Grizzly Adams]

I avoid Strike Air. :lol: None of this BS with Westjet.

Grizz

[gilbertslake]

Working to rule?
The same thing happened to my daughter last year on a trip to Europe only she had to overnight it in Calgary - no strike anywhere in sight!
Cat

I realize that Cat, it happens a lot. Guess what really got to me was when the other passenger's relative (employee by AC) freely volunteered that our predicament was caused by AC employees in their dispute with the company.

Their dispute is with the company and not the travelling public, why don't they keep it that way.

We have been flying Delta and Continental to Orlando over the past couple years (5 times in 18 months), but decided to give AC a try this time. We have some minor issues with both Delta and Continental , but nothing like this. I still like to think I am supporting a Canadian Airline, so I will try Westjet next time.

[TomE]

I avoid Strike Air. :lol: None of this BS with Westjet.

Grizz

Me too..The flight passes are useless as the Acft are full..I like Westjet too..

[TomE]

I realize that Cat, it happens a lot. Guess what really got to me was when the other passenger's relative (employee by AC) freely volunteered that our predicament was caused by AC employees in their dispute with the company.

Their dispute is with the company and not the travelling public, why don't they keep it that way.

We have been flying Delta and Continental to Orlando over the past couple years (5 times in 18 months), but decided to give AC a try this time. We have some minor issues with both Delta and Continental , but nothing like this. I still like to think I am supporting a Canadian Airline, so I will try Westjet next time.

Well seeing how this "dispute" has been ongoing since Mar of last year it's possible..There has been very little in the way of Job action that I have seen..When the Gov't, elected by Us, the People, gets involved, it's no longer Just between Mgmnt and the Employees...many factors to why Luggage and people and flights get messed up and usually not the Employee...AC could use a lesson in PR from Westjet as the employee is not Empowered to say or offer any form of compensation other than what they are told they can....Remember all these Front Line employees were legislated back to work and to accept the Rejected contract...The Flights are full so what's the big deal..
I hate to hear these stories as Most employees are not out to Screw the Public..Our Families fly as well..Air Canada, Westjet or whoever..If you feel good that we are deemed an Essential Service, Write your MP have him buy back the Empty shell that's left..With the Stock trading for pennies, it could be had for the price of a 777...

[darius]

We move roughly a 100,000 people a day, Can't please everyone..And Rach, the Airline flying to YQL is a "Tier 3" Contracted Airline..Air Georgian operating as Air Canada Express..I agree better Communication is required..I will Chime back in on the History of this Empty Shell Airline when I get a Chance..Should be an interesting thread..

" we're not happy till your not happy "

[doetracks]

Yesterday from Edmonton to Calgary, arrived at the counter (by my watch) 28 minutes before departure...the flight was delayed by 15 mins so I should be able to get on. The gal at the counter let me know there was no way to get on the flight and she could not issue a pass within 30 mins of departure - I told her the departure was 15 mins delayed and so I was within the 30 mins...she replied that is booked departure, not actual departure. Next available seat was a 7 hrs wait :(

Went to Hertz, rented a car, (they skipped the drop fee as I was getting a Calgary car that needed to ge back anyways) and was home 2 1/2 hrs later.

And they wonder why their passangers are crabby, perhaps they should extract their head from their loins and take a look.

Zeke

LOL.. Zeke.. you are to be at the airport for a domestic flight 1 hour prior to departure :lol: :lol:

We, as a charter company, hold for late passengers regularly. We don't have quite the constraints that the airlines do, but trust me: late passengers tick EVERYONE ELSE off. If we depart at 8, you better be there at the LATEST 45 minutes before (we depart out of our own lounge), one hour if travelling on an airline. Don't be mad at the check-in folks, you're the one that was late.

Sorry I don't have much sympathy for the late folks. Plan ahead.

[hal53]

LOL.. Zeke.. you are to be at the airport for a domestic flight 1 hour prior to departure :lol: :lol:

We, as a charter company, hold for late passengers regularly. We don't have quite the constraints that the airlines do, but trust me: late passengers tick EVERYONE ELSE off. If we depart at 8, you better be there at the LATEST 45 minutes before (we depart out of our own lounge), one hour if travelling on an airline. Don't be mad at the check-in folks, you're the one that was late.

Sorry I don't have much sympathy for the late folks. Plan ahead.
Very true words..it used to tick me off that 200+ people could get to the airport on time (everyone nowadays knows the routine)| to be sitting on the plane at the gate because some dick, couldn't get out of bed, personally I'm glad they don't hold the plane anymore. I have missed connections in various places due to weather etc., I do not expect them to hold up a plane load due to my bad luck....catch the next flight....stuff happens...

[gilbertslake]

LOL.. Zeke.. you are to be at the airport for a domestic flight 1 hour prior to departure :lol: :lol:

We, as a charter company, hold for late passengers regularly. We don't have quite the constraints that the airlines do, but trust me: late passengers tick EVERYONE ELSE off. If we depart at 8, you better be there at the LATEST 45 minutes before (we depart out of our own lounge), one hour if travelling on an airline. Don't be mad at the check-in folks, you're the one that was late.

Sorry I don't have much sympathy for the late folks. Plan ahead.

Huh? we are talking about a connection here, not arriving late for a flight. How can we plan ahead, when we are at the mercy of the airline being able to make our connections.
We were ticketed on AC all the way through, it's not like we sat around until the last minute, we really pushed air trying get to the gate on time.
So, what planning should we have done in order to gain your sympathy?

[doetracks]

Gilbert - the comment was in response to big zeke, NOT you.

Bad connections are bad connections, you have no control over that. And trust me, I have been on the receiving end as a passenger myself. It sux.

[hal53]

Huh? we are talking about a connection here, not arriving late for a flight. How can we plan ahead, when we are at the mercy of the airline being able to make our connections.
We were ticketed on AC all the way through, it's not like we sat around until the last minute, we really pushed air trying get to the gate on time.
So, what planning should we have done in order to gain your sympathy?
she was talking about A above hers regarding a domestic flight......

[Sputnik]

Our corporate carrier is Air Canada so we are force to use them, and I have travelled the world with them. Literally. A will be for the rest of the year.

Last year I qualified for Super Elite, that's a minimum of 100,000 butt in the seat miles.....so I've seen it all when it comes to this gang.

You cannot blame any airline for weather delays, suck it up, could they do a better job of keeping the cargo informed, yes, but I've also watched the whining, crying and demanding by customers to people who cannot do a damn thing about it and they take a lot of abuse from mouth breathing morons who think they are entitled.

So far sounds like I'm defending them, not so.

Air Canada's biggest problem is unions and the fact they have never grown up from being a crown corporation. The government should let them sink, notwithstanding I would lose a butt load of points and some privileges it is time for a refresh, without a union.

Government should also stop inteferring with back to work legislation, it is a private business, yup it would cause a lot of pain short term, but the customers would decide their fate with their cheque books.

It would not be long before West Jet (or a subsiduary)would be able to buy them out at fire sale prices, and turn it back into a viable service.

[hal53]

Our corporate carrier is Air Canada so we are force to use them, and I have travelled the world with them. Literally. A will be for the rest of the year.

Last year I qualified for Super Elite, that's a minimum of 100,000 butt in the seat miles.....so I've seen it all when it comes to this gang.

You cannot blame any airline for weather delays, suck it up, could they do a better job of keeping the cargo informed, yes, but I've also watched the whining, crying and demanding by customers to people who cannot do a damn thing about it and they take a lot of abuse from mouth breathing morons who think they are entitled.

So far sounds like I'm defending them, not so.

Air Canada's biggest problem is unions and the fact they have never grown up from being a crown corporation. The government should let them sink, notwithstanding I would lose a butt load of points and some privileges it is time for a refresh, without a union.

Government should also stop inteferring with back to work legislation, it is a private business, yup it would cause a lot of pain short term, but the customers would decide their fate with their cheque books.

It would not be long before West Jet (or a subsiduary)would be able to buy them out at fire sale prices, and turn it back into a viable service.
Good post, thanks!!!! well stated

[gilbertslake]

I suppose things could actually get a lot worse. I remembered reading about Ryan Air a couple of years ago and the the changes proposed by their owner, O'Leary. I just found an article alluding to what he proposed.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-02/ryanair-s-o-leary-ponders-pay-toilets-standing-passengers-in-profit-quest.html

Imagine, paying to use the toilet and standing on short haul flights! No co-pilot and a flight attendant trained to land the plane in an emergency.

Laughable, but O'Leary was the first to introduce charges on checked baggage........may not be long before we have to carry a stack of loonies when we board the plane and our own seat cushions.