Baiting Bears

[Smoke-eater]

Sorry but I had to add this one. I went off topic a bit on the "deer co-cane" thread. So ill start it on here. how do you feel about baiting bears for hunting, for or against??

[Rust]

I am 100% for it. As I said on the other thread, I do not know how you would get a bear in Bush Country other wise... BUt I have only ever hunted them last spring, So I am not really speaking from yrs of experince...

[TreeGuy]

The point of baiting is twofold. First to buy you enough time to see if it is a sow with cubs, and second, to add a bit of perspective in order to judge size. I support baiting to keep cubs from being orphaned/wasted.

Tree

[catnthehat]

I am 100% for it. As I said on the other thread, I do not know how you would get a bear in Bush Country other wise... BUt I have only ever hunted them last spring, So I am not really speaking from yrs of experince...

You hunt them by spot and stalk, or by calling.
Both styles work well....
Cat

[Smoke-eater]

I am 100% for it. As I said on the other thread, I do not know how you would get a bear in Bush Country other wise... BUt I have only ever hunted them last spring, So I am not really speaking from yrs of experince...


How do you hunt deer moose and elk in bush country...???? weak reason

[Rust]

How do you hunt deer moose and elk in bush country...???? weak reason

So how many bears have you tracked smoke-eater??? I have also never seen a bear while watching a cut line for deer or moose.

I have never done a spot and stalk on a bear, but I would think that you would need to be in a lot of Block cuts or snow slides... Have not thought about trying to call one in though.

[Smoke-eater]

why question something you havnt tried? And you werent on that cut line in the spring while you were looking for deer. your not baiting bears in the fall either. your hunting deer and moose. You have to hunt an animal for the season your in. bears arnt in the same spots in the spring and the fall. SPring food source is winter kill and fresh grass. Fall there feeding on berries.......



You have too strong of an opion about something you keep saying you havnt done before....

[SugarCreek]

The point of baiting is twofold. First to buy you enough time to see if it is a sow with cubs, and second, to add a bit of perspective in order to judge size. I support baiting to keep cubs from being orphaned/wasted.

Tree

x2 for tree.

[Donny Bear]

X3 for tree

[catnthehat]

FWIW, I did not vote on this issue, because it was a done deal many years ago, and will never IMO be reversed.

It does not mean you HAVE to bait bears, only that bear baiting is legal.

Cat

[Copidosoma]

Like baiting teenage boys with free porn. Hardly seems fair. ;)

Go get one on foot.

But as stated, just because it is legal doesn't mean you have to do it. I'll always have more respect for the fellow who spots and stalks bears. Not that that is worth much I suppose.

[nekred]

I have 8 bears with a bow and spot and stalk...

One over a bait with a bow.

Two totally different methods of hunting. hard to compare the two.

baiting seems more "artficial" and spot and stalk is more "purist"

Analogy such as baitfishing and flyfishing. I syggest before criticisng one or the other that you try them both. But do the enchilada when baiting including all the background work.

Bears in Alberta are much more timid on average than in BC and the big ones in Alberta are that way from being wary.

On average in BC the big bears are that way from being more aggressive in order to survive.

In areas with lower hunting pressure their biggest enemy is another bear therefore aggression is selected for.

In areas where hunting pressure is higher their biggest enemy is man therefore caution and timidity is selected for.

[Smoke-eater]

I have 8 bears with a bow and spot and stalk...

One over a bait with a bow.

Two totally different methods of hunting. hard to compare the two.

baiting seems more "artficial" and spot and stalk is more "purist"

Analogy such as baitfishing and flyfishing. I syggest before criticisng one or the other that you try them both. But do the enchilada when baiting including all the background work.

Bears in Alberta are much more timid on average than in BC and the big ones in Alberta are that way from being wary.

On average in BC the big bears are that way from being more aggressive in order to survive.

In areas with lower hunting pressure their biggest enemy is another bear therefore aggression is selected for.

In areas where hunting pressure is higher their biggest enemy is man therefore caution and timidity is selected for.





very true, good point

[Smoke-eater]

Well im glad I did this poll, it seems my opinion on the subject is in the minority. But thats why i love this thing is you get to see everyones opinion

[CNP]

Imagine/try it with a bow...you get a new perspective entirely.

[nekred]

In my experience you use what methodology is best suited to the area. The locals always have the best intrinsic knowlege of what works in that area.

Back home you sit on the path between the raspberries and the oat field and choose the bear you want!...or look for the fresh greenery in on south exposures in spring and that is what brings bears out.

I have been in areas where there is lots of bear sign and hardly ever see a bear and the only way to bring them out is with a bait!... But even then the big ones are shy!

[Gunner22a]

But I can't saw it bothers me one way or another. I don't eat bear, although I have in the past, so I don't hunt bear. The only time I would take one as if he had me on the menu but so far they seem more afraid of me than I am of them.

[Copidosoma]

Well im glad I did this poll, it seems my opinion on the subject is in the minority. But thats why i love this thing is you get to see everyones opinion

Frankly, I'm surprised you got so many "no"s.

Also surprised that it didn't turn into a huge mud slinging "ethics" debate. I guess there is still time.

Some good points made. Good thread all round.
:wave:

[hunterboi]

i dont know buddy ive never tried tracking a bear... but i think its better all around to bait.... think about it the bear comes in and not only do you have lots of time to wait for an excellent shot but you can properly identify the bear.... something u cant do bye tracking one down... no offense but i think baiting is a safer more practical way to hunt bears

[TheClash]

i dont know buddy ive never tried tracking a bear... but i think its better all around to bait.... think about it the bear comes in and not only do you have lots of time to wait for an excellent shot but you can properly identify the bear.... something u cant do bye tracking one down... no offense but i think baiting is a safer more practical way to hunt bears

why can't you do that when tracking? i would hope that ANY animal you shoot...no matter how you find it, you properly identify it BEFORE you shoot it....

[cohod]

I'm with Smoke-eater on this one I have not killed a bear in Alberta but have stocked them as I've come across them in the bush time, patience knowing how to size a bear and it can all be done from a spot and stock hunted them in B.C and have taken my fair share of bears. I don't see baiting as "fair chase"

Just my opinion and certainly don’t hold it against anyone if they choose to hunt over bait…to each their own

cohod

[Rust]

why question something you havnt tried? And you werent on that cut line in the spring while you were looking for deer. your not baiting bears in the fall either. your hunting deer and moose. You have to hunt an animal for the season your in. bears arnt in the same spots in the spring and the fall. SPring food source is winter kill and fresh grass. Fall there feeding on berries.......



You have too strong of an opion about something you keep saying you havnt done before....

Ok I do not see how I have "to strong of an opion about something I have not done" All I said was I was 100 % for baiting..... In other words I have nothing against it!!! And How I the heck am I questioning it? I simply said that I didn't know of any other way do get one in the bush country, and stated that I am not experinced in this area of hunting... I had never thought of trying to call one in and have never done a spot and stalk. And the 2 places that I had baits I don't think you could do a spot and stalk. And then you tell me that my reason for baiting is WEAK!!!:huh: :mad2:
What is wrong with a response like Catnthehat??????

[Rust]

So those of you that have done spot and stalks in spring or fall, did you sit and watch a big power line or pipeline or do you drive around and glass all the log cuts you can?? Or if you know where there are berry patches to go just go and check those spots for fresh sign?

[albertadave]

Hey Rust
I've hunted bears in the spring over bait, and by spot and stalk. The general consensus here seems to be that baiting makes things easier but I, for whatever reason, have seen more bears by spot and stalk. Maybe I'm not a very good bear baiter. The only bear that I have harvested was by spot and stalk in what would be considered "bush country". Something else to think about trying, is a float trip on one of the big rivers. We did it one year and it was a great way to hunt bears.

[Shrubs]

Done both and had a good time all round.

[Smoke-eater]

i dont know buddy ive never tried tracking a bear... but i think its better all around to bait.... think about it the bear comes in and not only do you have lots of time to wait for an excellent shot but you can properly identify the bear.... something u cant do bye tracking one down... no offense but i think baiting is a safer more practical way to hunt bears

Well shouldnt it be the same for elk, deer, moose, sheep, ect... bait them so you can judge them better?

More time to wait for a better shot and size the animal?? Why doesnt it work both ways? In 12 years of hunting bears I have never shot a small bear. Just dont see the difference between bears and deer, ect

[Smoke-eater]

So those of you that have done spot and stalks in spring or fall, did you sit and watch a big power line or pipeline or do you drive around and glass all the log cuts you can?? Or if you know where there are berry patches to go just go and check those spots for fresh sign?

All the above, It takes time to find out where the bears are, when you find a decent area you can sit and wait, walk the roads, call, ect... no different then hunting deer in my eyes.

[TreeGuy]

Well shouldnt it be the same for elk, deer, moose, sheep, ect... bait them so you can judge them better?

More time to wait for a better shot and size the animal?? Why doesnt it work both ways? In 12 years of hunting bears I have never shot a small bear. Just dont see the difference between bears and deer, ect

Smoke, I gotta disagree with you a bit.

First, the difference between deer and bear is the fact that a deer cannot eat you. Although a 'cheeky' response, there is a degree of validity in it.

Second, when you are hunting deer, elk or moose, there is a pretty easy way to identify the sex of the species regardless of the distance. I would not shoot a doe with a fawn, and would never shoot a sow with cubs.

Baiting gives a hunter not only personal safety, but as close a chance to 100% on taking a boar as there is. That is why I support baiting bears.

Tree

[TheClash]

tree i understand your points...and they are valid. but i guess i also see the other side......that is to say that if i have taken the time to locate and stalk a bear....then hopefully i have taken the time to make sure she is not a sow with cubs etc.....i am not saying i am 100% for or against, i can just see the points on both sides......guess that is the hippy in me haha

[SakoAlberta]

Well shouldnt it be the same for elk, deer, moose, sheep, ect... bait them so you can judge them better?

More time to wait for a better shot and size the animal?? Why doesnt it work both ways? In 12 years of hunting bears I have never shot a small bear. Just dont see the difference between bears and deer, ect

Much easier to tell the sex of most antlered/horned game and get an idea the size(if trophy hunting). Bears are very difficult to judge, IMHO, when it comes to size and , if hunting in the spring you want to make sure the hide is not rubbed.

I do bait and have a great location, usually seeing a dozen bears or more a night, however, I have never actually taken one at the bait nor I have I taken one by spot and stalk(fall) even though I've had dozens of opportunities. Someday, I'll take one for a rug(and meat) but I'm not in any hurry.

[catnthehat]

i dont know buddy ive never tried tracking a bear... but i think its better all around to bait.... think about it the bear comes in and not only do you have lots of time to wait for an excellent shot but you can properly identify the bear.... something u cant do bye tracking one down... no offense but i think baiting is a safer more practical way to hunt bears

I've tracked , called and still hunted bears for years.
I like it and will continue to do so because it is the method I LIKE to use.
And yes, you can identify bears from tracks if you know the ones in your area, and there is for the most part time to pick shots, check for cubs, etc.
it takes time to learn, but that's what it is all about.
Safe? I know several hunters who have injured themselves either falling out of stands getting in and out of them, and one that fell asleep in his with no belt.

I've hunted them with muzle loaders, bows, and killed them with pretty near every calber and guage made, including some non legal ones when I was on fly in traplines.
Cat

[Smoke-eater]

Smoke, I gotta disagree with you a bit.

First, the difference between deer and bear is the fact that a deer cannot eat you. Although a 'cheeky' response, there is a degree of validity in it.


Wow if you really feel that way (that a big bad bear is going to eat you) then maybe you shouldnt be hunting them. I have to guess your not that comfortable in the woods?

And for the comments about judging a bear is hard, you havnt done your home work. When your in a tree you cant see the size of the scatt or the size of the track. two big things in telling the size of a bear.

[Smoke-eater]

Much easier to tell the sex of most antlered/horned game and get an idea the size(if trophy hunting). Bears are very difficult to judge, IMHO, when it comes to size and , if hunting in the spring you want to make sure the hide is not rubbed.

I do bait and have a great location, usually seeing a dozen bears or more a night, however, I have never actually taken one at the bait nor I have I taken one by spot and stalk(fall) even though I've had dozens of opportunities. Someday, I'll take one for a rug(and meat) but I'm not in any hurry.



And heres is anouther guy with an opinion but has never actually shot a bear................. Come on people, I dont care if you like bait hunting but when you try to make a point at least have some experience with it.

[Smoke-eater]

And once again, im not trying to **** anyone off just trying to get some opinions from other hunters, looks like the baiters have it ;) I guess I shouldnt be complaining, less guys out hunting my cut blocks :)

[TreeGuy]

Wow if you really feel that way (that a big bad bear is going to eat you) then maybe you shouldnt be hunting them. I have to guess your not that comfortable in the woods?

Smoke, I'm not sure why you are so confrontational regarding this, but whatever. Please excuse me for having a healthy level of respect for a large predator that has been documented to have stalked and killed humans. A calous attitude like yours will probably result in you being just another victim if you think that those 'big bad bears' are so harmless. Good luck. BTW, I do just fine in the woods, but thank you for your concern.


And for the comments about judging a bear is hard, you havnt done your home work. When your in a tree you cant see the size of the scatt or the size of the track. two big things in telling the size of a bear.

I personally prefer to judge the size of a bear by looking at the animal, rather than the scat or tracks. With a bait barrel, it will give you a very accurate assesment in terms of the size of the bear (perspective). We're not all super-duper experts like you seem to be.:mad:

Tree

[packhuntr]

Smoke-eater....Sounds to me like Sako has plenty of experience baiting and passing up legally hunted bears. How much close range bear experience do you hold....Either stalked bear, or baited bear???????? Ive done both and killed some great bear doing both. Im a proponent for baiting. There are reasons why baiting bear "in particular", is a very ethical means of managing bear #s. If you look back afew pages to last year, there are some great points in a thread about this very subject. A fly fisherman for pike might think it unethical to float dead bait for pike at certain times of the year as well.....Like in early season post spawn conditions. Its not unethical, its smart, that said though, its not about exploiting the resource, its about management(bears), producing opportunity, and having fun. There are certain times when a certain thing just simply out performs other proven tactics. It doesnt make anyone wrong....... In the end, it just means that some guys catch more and bigger fish than other guys....thats all!!

keep a strain on er.

[Hoochie Papa]

I have bowhunted bear from a stand over bait, and spot and stalk.

IMO, the stand was boring. I didn't feel as if I was hunting, but only waiting.
I wasn't too thrilled about shooting any of the bears, because I felt I hadn't earned it.

Now the spot and stalk was a rush! I worked for it, and earned my bear. And every step of the way, the one thought kept coming back to me was the fact that I could get eaten at any time. That's what added to the excitement.

Bears are man-eaters. The one I stalked- maybe, maybe not. But the chance that he might be, and that I was walking UP TO HIM was thrilling.

So given the choice- I would pick spot and stalk every time.

[Jamie]

Well..
I have done it both ways.
I like them both. Actually who doesn't like killing bears???
Excitement comes from both methods.
Work is involved in both methods. In fact Baiting requires way more work.
The biggest difference for me was played out at 100 yards this past fall.
I was sitting on th edge of a grain field when a OK sized BB came out. If I have a 4 pound trigger on my gun, then I used 3 3/4 pounds of it.. When all of a sudden 2 tiny ears could be seen in the trees. If I was over bait, I would have seen that coming. In this case I almost made a mistake.
Be careful on that spot and stalk stuff guys... I would have felt like crap.
Easiest way to get access in Northern Alberta is to tell the landowners you are looking for bears! They LOVE Bear hunters.

Nothing wrong with doing it either way. The more ways you try it, the better you will be.

Jamie

[Smoke-eater]

I come from Van. Island and hunted them for over 12 years, taking 2 bears almost evry year. Not once have I ever come close to shooting a sow with cubs. Second I guide in Northen BC for grizzly and BB, bow and rifle hunters. thats my experience packhuntr. I dont think i know everything but i can say i have put more bears on the ground then the average bear ;)

And I am fine when guys can give me valid reasons for something like packhuntr has done in his post. Like i said before just wanted to see what guys thought about the subject.

[Jamie]

I come from Van. Island and hunted them for over 12 years, taking 2 bears almost evry year. Not once have I ever come close to shooting a sow with cubs. Second I guide in Northen BC for grizzly and BB, bow and rifle hunters. thats my experience packhuntr. I dont think i know everything but i can say i have put more bears on the ground then the average bear ;)

.


Knock on wood my friend... Knock on wood.

I also was of the same mind set.... Till last fall. I had never even come close.
The cub was just in some tall grass and some bushes, I watched her for approx 4-5 minutes before I brought the gun up. I know someone looking for their first bear would have banged her while I was thinking. She didn't give one sign that the cub was with her, no looking around, no nothing..

A boat based hunt on the peace would be fun.. Very expensive at 115/liter. Perhaps a float trip:wave:

Jamie

Jamie

[Pioneer2]

This post is as stale as is a .270 better than a 30-06.If it's legal you can do it.....................................Harold

[gunslinger]

I come from Van. Island and hunted them for over 12 years, taking 2 bears almost evry year. Not once have I ever come close to shooting a sow with cubs. Second I guide in Northen BC for grizzly and BB, bow and rifle hunters. thats my experience packhuntr. I dont think i know everything but i can say i have put more bears on the ground then the average bear ;)

And I am fine when guys can give me valid reasons for something like packhuntr has done in his post. Like i said before just wanted to see what guys thought about the subject.

well i too have shot a few blackies spotting and stalking with my rifle but on the other hand we also run over 50 baits.
not only when running baits can you set up with a young kid in every situation and make his dream come true seeing bears,
you can photo graph bears when baiting, and in the spring time you also are giving the sows and cubs alot of free food which i really enjoy.

now for the hunting part, its not like you just put a bait out and wammo you kill a bear, it takes alot of sh$t sizing and paw sizing, travel patterns and feeding times.
If you have limited time or only a week to hunt your bear baiting is a prime way of getting into the outdoors and trying to harvest a good quality bear, alot of folks can only hunt for a week or so and this is a perfect way to make sure not only of seeing bears but increasing your chance at a quality bear..
Now your probly gonna say oh we see alot of bears out here in bc spotting and stalking, but how many of them bears are killed by bow and arrow, not many althoguht there is some that are, 90% of our hunters are bow hunters, when spotting and stalking 95% of the hunters are rifle hunters.
There are people that do shoot spot and stalk bears with bow and thats awsome, but you have to realize that the chances of that happenign are very slim to say the least
Up in the very remote bush of norhtern alberta you cannot spot and stalk bears, its so thick that you wouldnt have a chance, and if you dont want resident pressure and choose these areas to hunt then baiting is the best style.
hunting spot and stalk on a pipeline or oat field is great, but try it with a bow and you might be out there for years trying to harvest a bear, baits maybe only a month....i hope this answers some of your questions about baiting black bears.

[gopherslayer]

Well..

Actually who doesn't like killing bears???


ME!!!! Guess I'm old school and just don't want to kill if I won't eat it, shooting just for the hide is not my idea of fun nor is saying "I killed a bear...I'm a man of men!!!". I don't agree with baiting of bears and I don't agree with chasing cougars up the tree with dogs and shooting them either. I don't care if others do it, it is within the law and I'm not very judgmental of others. If it's legal and you do it and it doesn't effect me or my family negatively...then have at her. :) . I'm sure some things I do would ruffle others feathers also.

[cohod]

todays Calgary sun:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2008/03/12/4979111-sun.html

OTTAWA -- An animal rights group is calling on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to ban bear-baiting after an investigation into what it calls a "cowardly and extremely cruel practice."
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has released graphic video showing baiting, shooting and skinning of bears by hunters, including a mother whose cub was orphaned and left to die.
Bear-baiting hunters take advantage of bears' keen sense of smell by luring them to piles of food where they lie in wait.
PETA says the bears are usually shot many times before they die or escape to die a slow death from blood loss, dehydration, starvation or infection.

just to stir things up a bit:wave: :ashamed:

cohod

[340wtby]

peta:mad2: This organization is a bynch of hypocrites. They euthanize thousands of animals each year in there shelters.

[CNP]

ME!!!! Guess I'm old school and just don't want to kill if I won't eat it, shooting just for the hide is not my idea of fun nor is saying "I killed a bear...I'm a man of men!!!". I don't agree with baiting of bears and I don't agree with chasing cougars up the tree with dogs and shooting them either. I don't care if others do it, it is within the law and I'm not very judgmental of others. If it's legal and you do it and it doesn't effect me or my family negatively...then have at her. :) . I'm sure some things I do would ruffle others feathers also.

Gopherslayer......nice handle. Doesn't bother me at all (your handle lol). BTW do you eat those gophers? Take the hide? Do you say " I have killed a gopher....I'm (gopher://gopher....I'm) a man of men"!!! LOL, I'm just having some fun at your expense.

This thread originates from a guy in BC, where baiting is not legal, with the objective of criticizing how we do things in AB. Stirring the pot...for those that like to be stirred lol.

[frenchwhitey]

I come from Van. Island and hunted them for over 12 years, taking 2 bears almost evry year. Not once have I ever come close to shooting a sow with cubs. Second I guide in Northen BC for grizzly and BB, bow and rifle hunters. thats my experience packhuntr. I dont think i know everything but i can say i have put more bears on the ground then the average bear ;)

And I am fine when guys can give me valid reasons for something like packhuntr has done in his post. Like i said before just wanted to see what guys thought about the subject.

Lived in Comox for 5 years and it's a lot easier to spot and stalk bears in that type of terrain than in AB. IMHO. Also ran a guiding business with my grandfather in Ontario baiting bears. Both are really fun and exciting. Spot and stalk gives you a good feeling of accomplishment. Being in close proximity to big bruins when baiting (we had a ground blind set up at 7 yards from one of our baits) is a rush too. Too each his/her own!!:D

[gopherslayer]

Gopherslayer......nice handle. Doesn't bother me at all (your handle lol). BTW do you eat those gophers? Take the hide? Do you say " I have killed a gopher....I'm (gopher://gopher....I'm) a man of men"!!! LOL, I'm just having some fun at your expense.

This thread originates from a guy in BC, where baiting is not legal, with the objective of criticizing how we do things in AB. Stirring the pot...for those that like to be stirred lol.

I haven't even been able to get out for gophers for years :( ..heck I haven't been out for deer for a couple now :(

any yes, I have eaten gopher before :tongue2: ..better than the rat I had in asia :sick:

[aulrich]

Oddly the cousin I use to bait bears (I since moved away) now when he shoots them they are in oat fields in the fall. Find a few farmers with bear troubles, drive the fields, spot the bears stalk to a shooting position and shoot. He likes it not nearly as much work as baiting.

In other words road warrior, now plenty of you will be out doing the spot and stalk honestly (all the power to you, been there done that), I have hunted BC lots of spotting happens in the pickup, and heck just because there is no road (hunting from boats) does not mean it is not road hunting.

Before you spot and stalkers sling mud at the lowly baiters remember if your butt was anywhere near the truck/quad/boat (maybe even horse) when you spoted, your just another road hunter.

[SakoAlberta]

And heres is anouther guy with an opinion but has never actually shot a bear................. Come on people, I dont care if you like bait hunting but when you try to make a point at least have some experience with it.

Your assumptions border on stupidity. Firstly, I have done more bear hunting than most. I have observed/stalked hundreds of bears (of three different species.)
Also, I have been 'in on' dozens of kills without having actually shot one myself, so I have seen many shot with a variety of weapons/cartridges and skinned/dressed many.
So, if you want to type something at least think first.

[bearbait]

i hunted over a bait but was not amused at how easy it was...nothing agaist it but not my cup of tea...i also have not even came close to shooting a sow with cubs as ill watch the bear for some time befor taking it..mabey im spoiled with an area thats over run with bears but i perfer the spot and stalk method over baiting....
rob

[Islander]

I'm also from Van. Island, and being so, the only method that I've employed has been spot and stalk. I do support baiting 100% though, and if it were legal closer to Calgary, I'd have had a few baits set-up last year. I have taken 5 bears spot and stalk w/rifle, and will be trying for #6 this spring by bow. My only Alberta bear was more luck than anything, as the country in Northern Alberta seems to be not very conducive to spot and stalk (compared to BC).
I used to believe that it isn't sporting, but after buying a whack of videos on it, I do think it would be fun to give it a try. Helluva lot of work, though.

I think the analogy with baitfishing is right on the money. If it works and its not damaging the populations, then whats the problem?

[TreeGuy]

Well said Islander!

Tree

[crazy_davey]

I have hunted and killed bears every way that is legal in Alberta. All are fun, all are hunting, period.

I always find bear hunting(no matter what way) a great way to get over those winter blues, get out with friends and get warmed up for the hunting season ahead.

Have fun this spring boys and girls, I know I will :wave: