Mechanicals VS. Fixed

[TreeGuy]

OK, what do you guys use? And why?

Myself, since I'm rather simple by nature, I subscribe to the KISS principal (Keep It Simple Stupid).:D

I feel that a fixed setup eliminates one extra thing that can go wrong bowhunting. God knows there's only 2-3 things that can go wrong anyway, so who needs a fourth?:lol:

However, those fancy-schmancy thingies look pretty cool. I need to re-stock, so I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks.

Tree

[Skinnydipper]

I have always liked the mechanical broadheads and use the Rocky Mountain Snyper 2 blades. That said, I have very little field experience with the bow and these broadheads to prove or disprove their effectiveness. My biggest attraction has been to the "field point like" performance that is claimed.

[russ]

I've been using mechanicals for the last 5 years or so. If your arrow is tuned to fly and you can hit something other than a shoulder blade or the guts there will be NO issues. This year I'm planning on using a new blind and I want to use it with the mesh windows in, so I'll probably be using fixed blades instead. Bad Penetration = BAD TUNING. The broadhead is just an excuse.

[catnthehat]

I've been using mechanicals for the last 5 years or so. If your arrow is tuned to fly and you can hit something other than a shoulder blade or the guts there will be NO issues. This year I'm planning on using a new blind and I want to use it with the mesh windows in, so I'll probably be using fixed blades instead. Bad Penetration = BAD TUNING. The broadhead is just an excuse.

My thoughts exactly.
I use fixed blade heads because I like them, not becauase I think they are better than mechanicls but there are some fixed blade heads I simply will not use because I can't get them to fly properly.
Incidently, One of the broadheads I detest is the Bodkin three blade, a very old design.
Those things are a never ending nightmare for me.
HOWEVER, A very famous bowyer and archer in pennsylavania just loves them!
Go figure....:confused:
Whatever it is, it MUST fly straight for you or everything else is a crap shoot.
Cat

[TreeGuy]

I've been using mechanicals for the last 5 years or so. If your arrow is tuned to fly and you can hit something other than a shoulder blade or the guts there will be NO issues. This year I'm planning on using a new blind and I want to use it with the mesh windows in, so I'll probably be using fixed blades instead. Bad Penetration = BAD TUNING. The broadhead is just an excuse.


Russ, I shot through a blind mesh this fall. No issue with my broadheads (125gr Thunderheads), but it pulled the crap out of my field points. I would imagine that you would face the same (if not WORSE) results with mechanicals. BTW, I've had zero issues with the Thunderheads, I'll probably stick with them unless convinced otherwise.

Tree

[russ]

TG?? I think my last post indicated I would be using fixed blades, more specifically I'll be using cut-on-contact fixed blades to shoot through my screens.

Field points won't cut through the mesh so yes they wouldn't fly worth a darn. I've gotten my BH choice whittled down to 2 cut on contact heads.

Catinthehat, I have five bodkins. I cart 'em around to show people taking the archery portion of the Conservation Education course. Terrible things to sharpen, I've even tried my felt wheel & green compound and still not to my satisfaction.

[BigRackLover]

I use fixed (steel force 4 blades) but will probably switch to montecs for fixed and would like to try those slip cam mechnical 2 blades on moose this year, they have a 2 inch cutting diameter, lot more chance of always cutting a major lung part. IMO.

I never had a problem with my steel force ones just like the rigid look on montec and have heard good things.

[TreeGuy]

TG?? I think my last post indicated I would be using fixed blades, more specifically I'll be using cut-on-contact fixed blades to shoot through my screens.


I realize what you indicated. I was only trying to releate my PERSONAL experiences in terms of shooting through mesh. Although that information may not have benefitted you, that is not to say that it wouldn't be helpful to others. No offence ment.

Tree

[catnthehat]

Catinthehat, I have five bodkins. I cart 'em around to show people taking the archery portion of the Conservation Education course. Terrible things to sharpen, I've even tried my felt wheel & green compound and still not to my satisfaction.
The bowyer I mentioned uses a file and puts a wire edge on them.
I can't stand the things myself, and won't even have them in the house anynore - tossed them 20 years ago!:lol:
When sharpened with a single cut mil file to a rough wire edge they cut well, but only once, then they need to be complelty gone over, not just retouched.

The big thing for me is they don't pass the first test - accuracy, so they fail right there.

I also got some hi-standards with my Ben pearson when I bought it, and although they are built soemwhat the same as the bodkin, they are much harder steel and out a finer edge on.
However, With a dozen Black Diamond Deltas and grizzlies at my disposal , I haven't bothered even to look a them either....
Cat

[gunslinger]

i also shoot fixed blade, muzzy to be exact.
with the 40 or so bow hunters we bring up each spring i bet i could count the number of guys on one hand that shoot mechanical broadheads.
for one if the elastics happen to break in the quiver your pooched(noone carries spare elastics) you can shoot the mesh with out the broadhead opening.
two if one side breaks off or doesnt open it affects penetration.
but thats just me.

[nekred]

Again a personal preference question!....

I like Montecs, Thunderheads, or RM Premiers. They are togh enough to survive the 45 gallon drum test and fly fine for me.

Mechanicals I do not like. I pasted a doe at 4 yards away from tree stand and 1 blade did not open and arrow exited in a different directions.

Shooting almost straight down. tree stand 30 feet up deer almost straight down... arrow went in beside spine just behind shoulder. Deer's head was quartering towards me. Arrow ended up about 6 yards behind deer.

If arrow continued on straight line it should have been under deer. When I found slimy, pink, dark red, green, and brown arrow only one blade was open. It was a non elasticfold back mechanical. Coyotes found deer before I did.

So based on this situation I prefer fixed blades because I made two more shots later that were almost identical with very short retrieval.

What I do not like about montecs is above 280 fps and they whistle.

[Shrubs]

I wanted to try mechanicals last year so I bought some first cuts, they fly really good but like Gunslinger mentioned if one of the elastics break, or you lose a couple those broadheads are useless.

This year I'm switchin back to fixed blades, just one less thing to go wrong.

[CNP]

[QUOTE][I've gotten my BH choice whittled down to 2 cut on contact heads.
/QUOTE]

Me too...............Magnus two blade for longbow and recurve and Muzzy 4 blade for compound. I used to have a dozen different type heads......the search is over for me.

[huntinggr81]

SHOT PLACEMENT! SHOT PLACEMENT! SHOT PLACEMENT! I have taken 16 big game animals in the last 6 years with my bow. I started off using mechanicals (Spitfires, Rocky Mtn Revolutions, G5 Tekan 2's & Rocket Aeroheads) with very good success - including two bull moose. I continue to use Rocket Aeroheads mechanicals for spring bear. Three years ago I switched to fixed blades in the fall, and use Shuttle T's also with good success. Bottom line is SHOT PLACEMENT!

[grandslamer]

i used thunderheads and muzzys for years with no problems except having to sighting in for them ,i switched last season to mechanials last year and spent lots of time and lots of cash trying out different ones, then i found the rage3 slip cam.
these are rear deploying cut on contact broadheads that fly exactly the same as my feild point. i took a full sized bull buffalo and i pulled my shot a little and shot through the shoulder balde and still had the arrow pass clear through at 24 yards so i was totaly impressed . my only worry would be those morning where ice can build up

[BigRackLover]

I'm all for trying the Rage slip cam rear deployment blades. Never thought about "ice" or lockup though. I will have to test.

I would never use those elastic ones.

[Prdtrgttr]

We looked at the Rage Slip Cams last year. Although they look good, they too have an "elastic", which BTW is not as much of a problem as some of the posters have stated. What we found with the slip cams was that the blades slipped out much too easily. They were ok if you were just sitting there with your arrow on the string, but once you started taking them in and out of your quiver, and using them in the field, the blades slipped into the open position far too often.
As for other mechanicals, my hunting partners and I have outstanding success with Wasp Jak Hammers. Accurate and tough these heads fly like darts and leave big holes for easy and short blood trailing.The elastic is as tough as nails, it actually slides down the arrow rather than snapping, and if you're worried about losing one, just have an extra 1 or 2 on the arrow shaft right at the insert.
One feature of mech. heads that fellows often overlook is the safety factor of having your razor blades covered until the head hits an animal.
Because of their design too, (they are not "L" shaped blades) these broadheads fly great through ground blind mesh.
As another poster alluded to though, it's really all about shot placement. :)

[grandslamer]

the rage 3 DOES NOT have an elastic to hold it closed it does have an o ring like every other broadhead but it locks on its own and ive never had one open up while in my quiver or loading ..ther design stop pre deployment

[nekred]

Shot placement is important....

But also the style of machanicals are important. The flip arround backward blades held by friction are junk in my opinion.

A had a spitfire 3 blade (I normally never talk about brands in a bad light)... where 2 blades did not open and arrow turned after it hit animal and exited out of line of the shot.

I shot down from a tree stand at a close doe... I hit beside the spine, just behind shoulder blade which should have been a perfect shot. Fixed blades would not have been an issue or a mechanical where blades deploy before entering animal.

here is a mechanical test. Shoot an unshorn sheep. (With permission) or shoot a sheepskin vest... again permission and ensure owner isnot wearing it at the time. with a spitfiree... when you hit the wool side first the blades tangle in the wool as they are opening and the arrow will not pass through the hide!....

or shoot kevlar chainsaw pants... again with permission when someone is not wearing them with a spitfire and then shoot it with a fixed blade......

Mechanical design has changed over the years but to me it is still one more thing to go wrong!... and it has done so!....

[Shrubs]

We looked at the Rage Slip Cams last year. Although they look good, they too have an "elastic", which BTW is not as much of a problem as some of the posters have stated. What we found with the slip cams was that the blades slipped out much too easily. They were ok if you were just sitting there with your arrow on the string, but once you started taking them in and out of your quiver, and using them in the field, the blades slipped into the open position far too often.
As for other mechanicals, my hunting partners and I have outstanding success with Wasp Jak Hammers. Accurate and tough these heads fly like darts and leave big holes for easy and short blood trailing.The elastic is as tough as nails, it actually slides down the arrow rather than snapping, and if you're worried about losing one, just have an extra 1 or 2 on the arrow shaft right at the insert.
One feature of mech. heads that fellows often overlook is the safety factor of having your razor blades covered until the head hits an animal.
Because of their design too, (they are not "L" shaped blades) these broadheads fly great through ground blind mesh.
As another poster alluded to though, it's really all about shot placement. :)


My experience with the rubber bands didn't end the hunt because I had more broadheads it's just frustrating when you lose a little cheap piece of rubber and that means you have one less arrow. I guess it depends on the person. My girlfriend has shot the wasp jackhammers, no kills with them but she switched to to the fixed blade wasp because she hates tieing fishing line or whatever on the mechanicals for target practice.

[huntinggr81]

My experience with the rubber bands didn't end the hunt because I had more broadheads it's just frustrating when you lose a little cheap piece of rubber and that means you have one less arrow. I guess it depends on the person. My girlfriend has shot the wasp jackhammers, no kills with them but she switched to to the fixed blade wasp because she hates tieing fishing line or whatever on the mechanicals for target practice.

If you shoot mechanicals then I've found there is no need to practice with them, as they fly just like field points. That is one of the main reasons that people choose to use mechanicals.

[Shrubs]

Isn't it a good idea to practice with the head you'll use for hunting? Call me crazy but I don't see how someone would want to go hunting with a broadhead that they haven't tried at the target first.

[TreeGuy]

or shoot kevlar chainsaw pants... again with permission when someone is not wearing them with a spitfire and then shoot it with a fixed blade......

Nek, you're makin' me nervous..........oh, oh, WITHOUT someone wearing the pants! Whew!:lol:

Great info guys. The rear deployment of the Rage does interest me, but for now, I think that I'll stick with my Thunderheads. I got enough problems without looking for another one.:D

Tree

[Islander]

I shot spitfires last year (first season strictly with the bow), and while they performed well on three deer, I have been thinking of switching to Shuttle-T's (fixed). They are one type of head that I've heard and read nothing but good reviews on. Bob Fromme from the Performance Bowhunting videos pushes them, and the man seems to know his stuff. May be worth a try.

[nekred]

The fixed vs mechanical thread is always good for opinions and closed minds.... including my closed mind!....:lol:

[huntinggr81]

I've used many mechanicals, and they all shoot exactly the same as field points (Ive' tried them all to see - just a few shots with each will tell you right away). As for Shuttle T's they shoot well out to 70 yds with excellent penetration, and after using them for the last two seasons I would recommend them as a very good fixed blade broadhead. Shuttle T's leave very large holes. The dealer I purchased them thru let me test the into a steel 45 gallon drum - didn't even break a blade. I also tested G5 montecs into the drum - blades didn't break, but did bend, and not nearly as big a hole as the Shuttle T. As for mechanicals I tried a Rocket Aerohead into the drum - broke one blade off & bent another - only a small hole as blades didn't slice thru the steel drum.

[Stinky Coyote]

stick with your thunderheads...

i got all broadhead crazy at one point (sounds like you might get sucked into that trap too?:D )....do yourself a favor and put the money you'll blow trying all the different types of broadheads towards something else!

i tried about 5 different expandables, probably that many again in fixed blade....cripes a judo will do the job with shot placement so it doesn't really matter what the design of the broadhead is as long as there are some sharp bits when it goes through the vitals....they all work pretty equally....maybe a larger blades takes a few yards off your trailing job but that would be about all i could say would be different....except for these two things....

1. shot placement if bad.......this is where you'll want your tough fixed blade forsure...

and 2. if the broadhead stays inside while animal is running it could be moving around like a stir stick....cutting everything up better inside (especially on a poor placement?)...and i'd rather the fixed blade in there doing that than a mechanical where the blades might brake off or close

i know....reason #2 is pretty weak but hey.....could give us something else to argue about right?:D

i didn't find one better than the other with good placement....and just trust the fixed more if a poor placement happens...phone me if you want to try some of the expandables etc. i've got a few kickin around still (they can be a bitch to get an arrow to spin perfect too....which bugged me when trying to tune everything up...especially the snypers which worked great on the deer i shot with them)

[Shrubs]

I've used many mechanicals, and they all shoot exactly the same as field points (Ive' tried them all to see - just a few shots with each will tell you right away). As for Shuttle T's they shoot well out to 70 yds with excellent penetration, and after using them for the last two seasons I would recommend them as a very good fixed blade broadhead. Shuttle T's leave very large holes. The dealer I purchased them thru let me test the into a steel 45 gallon drum - didn't even break a blade. I also tested G5 montecs into the drum - blades didn't break, but did bend, and not nearly as big a hole as the Shuttle T. As for mechanicals I tried a Rocket Aerohead into the drum - broke one blade off & bent another - only a small hole as blades didn't slice thru the steel drum.

I've only used the one set of mechanicals and no I didn't have to move my sights and you're probably right about them all shooting the same but I just have to check. Never know, I'd hate to miss something and find out later.

Might have to try those shuttle T locks this year they seem to get rave reviews everywhere.

[TreeGuy]

Stinky, I'm gonna have to cut you a fat cheque (it'll bounce:evilgrin: ) for the amount of money you've saved me in experimentation. Perhaps you'll accept some fine spiced rum instead?:D

I do think that your reason #2 is valid. The 'churning' effect is quite relevent. Thanks for the info. I like my little Thunderheads. All I ask for out of my gear is CONSISTANCY! Thus I know what to expect. If I want unpredictable, I'll ask Mrs. Tree how her day was and what she is planning for tommorow!:lol:

Tree

[7 REM MAG]

i shoot 125gr thunder heads, have yet to shoot anything other than targets with em but i plan on changing that on a bear this spring and a deer later on in the year. Anyone try the 45 gallon drum test with thunder heads, i might have to try it

[russ]

Okay, I gotta say something...

That 45 gallon drum test is a great idea...

When does the season open?

And if I'm lucky and find something $150 a gallon chem in it. Do I have to skin the drum first or can I resell the chem after the kill? Or Would handling the chem like that be re-selling "wildlife"?

Just some thoughts, oil barrels & phone books aren't tissue or bone so I don't think I'll be killing any more barrels anytime again. (yeah, I've done it!) The broadhead did GREAT but now the barrel leaks. Which is actually good, it gives the bears something to lick as the barrel leaks.

[nekred]

The 45 gallon drum!.... i will save you some cash!...

Tried in 1994

Wasp
innerloc
Muzzy's (The original style)
A one-pice no longer available
Spitfires,
Puckets...remember those... broadhead died on contact and arrow did not penetrate to other side of barrell!....
Thunderheads
RM Premiers

The only ones that survived were the T-Heads and Premieres!

I use T-heads and as they disappear I am replacing with Montec's... love the one piece idea... no blades to fart around with and easy to sharpen!...

[russ]

Nek, I think you missed the point of my post. I don't think shooting barrels or phone books is a valid test. However, I will agree with you regarding the Puckets.

[nekred]

WhatEver!.....

The premise is that if a broadhead will survive a barrel it will survive going through ribcage of animal, breaking rib In and Out....

It is a torture test.... like to make it harder than real life!.....

[BlueNorther]

I've used mech heads since I started bow hunting,only 8 years but my dozen kills with mechs hasn't convinced that they're bad BH's.Started out using Spitfires,2 bull moose and a white tail,then went to Grim Reapers for the balance of kills.None of those BH's failed to perform,and I've had none that broke apart.My last kill was a mule deer at 40 yards,it hit a rib full on at entry and clipped a rib on exit.It left a blood trail a blind man could follow.

[huntinggr81]

Okay, I gotta say something...

That 45 gallon drum test is a great idea...

When does the season open?

And if I'm lucky and find something $150 a gallon chem in it. Do I have to skin the drum first or can I resell the chem after the kill? Or Would handling the chem like that be re-selling "wildlife"?

Just some thoughts, oil barrels & phone books aren't tissue or bone so I don't think I'll be killing any more barrels anytime again. (yeah, I've done it!) The broadhead did GREAT but now the barrel leaks. Which is actually good, it gives the bears something to lick as the barrel leaks.

The 45 gallon drum test is an excellent test for durability & strenght of a broadhead. These kind of tests show you how a broadhead will perform under the worst circumstances.

[bobalong]

I like the Wasp jackhammers. Although I have only shot 2 deer with them, penetration has been good, and all blades opened on both. I also like the large cutting area on them, important when bowhunting I think.

[Stinky Coyote]

Stinky, I'm gonna have to cut you a fat cheque (it'll bounce:evilgrin: ) for the amount of money you've saved me in experimentation. Perhaps you'll accept some fine spiced rum instead?:D

I do think that your reason #2 is valid. The 'churning' effect is quite relevent. Thanks for the info. I like my little Thunderheads. All I ask for out of my gear is CONSISTANCY! Thus I know what to expect. If I want unpredictable, I'll ask Mrs. Tree how her day was and what she is planning for tommorow!:lol:

Tree


Lol, don't get me wrong, i had fun trying new broadheads and couldn't wait to see what the results would be....i don't know what i was expecting but i always found the same thing regardless of broadhead i chose.....still was fun, expensive fun mind you.

I'm a montec fan myself too. Plus i shoot a pretty light arrow and i practice long so if i'm dealing with a big muley at 50-60 yrds (like two of my last three were) i want to make sure i've got a tough high penetration design....this is where cut on contact probably helps a bit too. They are pricy but worth it imo as with good arrows like the carbon express cx 300's i shoot i can buy a dozen of each and end up with 12 arrows that spin perfect...no aggravation and extra parts....and i like that.

Another good one myself and hunting partner like and use is the wasp boss bullet, they spin good, tough as shyt, sharp as shyt, and fly awesome also.....plus you get 6 to a pack for close to the same money you pay for 3 montecs......awesome value on those.

And can't knock the thunderhead although i've never used them, i know nap stuff comes sharper than anyone elses stuff and they have the best reputation out there for a broadhead! And affordable also.

Put the money you save into a fund for that 597 mag you want!;)

My only advice (which was handed down to me by many) is that if you shoot fixed blade heads then thats what you practice with....then there are no surprises. Not even sure i have a field tip anywhere now? Buy the practice blades or take a file to some existing heads to dull them down and thats what i shoot only. I have a broadhead target and a glendel full rut deer....neither one has seen a field tip. And getting closer to the season i keep the glendel deer and the bow in back of truck all the time so when i can pull them out and set the deer minimum 50 yrds away i can make sure my 1st shot is always good....once your there.....then there is no lack of confidence when its time to do it for real. Best practice going imo.

[Canuck44]

So if fixed is agreed to be more reliable and no elastics or other issues why use a mechanical?

From my limited knowledge it seems the only real benefit in a hunting situation would be some increased speed due to better aerodynamics. Are their other benefits in a hunting situation?

How much faster is an arrow shot at 300fps going at 40 yrds with mechanicals compared to the average fixed?

[huntinggr81]

So if fixed is agreed to be more reliable and no elastics or other issues why use a mechanical?

From my limited knowledge it seems the only real benefit in a hunting situation would be some increased speed due to better aerodynamics. Are their other benefits in a hunting situation?

How much faster is an arrow shot at 300fps going at 40 yrds with mechanicals compared to the average fixed?

The biggest reason to used mechanical vs fixed is flyability. Mechanicals fly (the ones I've tried) exactly like your field points - so you don't have do to any fine tuning to your arrows or your bow. Fixed blades however will require more tuning to get them to fly properly. Fixed blades are also less forgiving - that is if you torque your bow or punch your release the shot may be off more than a field point would be. This is from my own experience.

[broadfieldpoint]

The biggest reason to used mechanical vs fixed is flyability. Mechanicals fly (the ones I've tried) exactly like your field points - so you don't have do to any fine tuning to your arrows or your bow. Fixed blades however will require more tuning to get them to fly properly. Fixed blades are also less forgiving - that is if you torque your bow or punch your release the shot may be off more than a field point would be. This is from my own experience.

Sounds right.

[Cordur]

All you need are Magnus Snuffer SS broadheads. They passed the dishwasher test, the cinder block test and the "how far into the back stop do you think it went?" test. If I get the chance out at my buddies farm I'll try the engine block test. Haven't broken one yet and they fly the same as my field points. Lifetime Guarantee is pretty nifty too, I think if I do bag an engine block I'm going to send them the broad head with a picture.

[7 REM MAG]

magnus where did u find them and how much are they

[Cordur]

They're $34.99 at the archery center for a 3 pack. They were sold out almost as fast as they came in last season. Don't know if they have any more in yet but I have to pick up another pack for a friend of mine who's moved to Manitoba.

[russ]

The 45 gallon drum test is an excellent test for durability & strenght of a broadhead. These kind of tests show you how a broadhead will perform under the worst circumstances.

When I start shooting armour plated deer, I'll consider the test valid. There's nothing that hard on an animal to go through, and anything that is hard I better not be hitting anyway because if I do, it's a wounded animal.

[catnthehat]

When I start shooting armour plated deer, I'll consider the test valid. There's nothing that hard on an animal to go through, and anything that is hard I better not be hitting anyway because if I do, it's a wounded animal.
There are bony parts of critters that can be pretty tough sometimes.
You can't always count on a moose or deer to keep his leg foraward , for example.
I used Rotharr Snuufers for a bit about 10 years ago on the advice of kelly Peterson - super tough broadhead for sure.
went back to my two bladed Zwickeys in the end however....
Cat

[russ]

The shoulder blade isn't anywhere near the right spot to hit on a moose, elk, deer, bear or anything else I fling arrows @ in Alberta. If I hit that bone, I've shot hi & wide. Even when the leg is back the sweet spot is still open if I pinwheel the lungs.

[catnthehat]

The shoulder blade isn't anywhere near the right spot to hit on a moose, elk, deer, bear or anything else I fling arrows @ in Alberta. If I hit that bone, I've shot hi & wide. Even when the leg is back the sweet spot is still open if I pinwheel the lungs.

Like I said, stuff moves sometimes...
Cat

[nekred]

Russ you are missing the point (as usual)

Open your mind just a bit before you open your mouth!

The whole point is to test a broadhead on something like an animal only tougher.

Animal is tough on outside (ribs) and soft on inside.
Barrell is really tough on outside and soft on inside.

If broadhead survives barrel

ergo....it will survive on animal enough to do the job.

It is only to add confidence in my equipment. and I would rather find out a broadhead is poorly made before I hit an animal with it!

Besides I want to make sure my broadhead will work on your monster bionic mule deer over there that are too big for a 243! :evilgrin: :D :tongue2:

[russ]

Open your mind just a bit before you open your mouth!




I've learned that "keep an open mind" is code speak for "I'm wrong because I don't share the same point of view"

Now, I can see why you "think" the barrel test is valid but if you honestly evaluated ALL of the factors you would realize that there isa serious problem with the barrel test. All broadheads MUST enter at the same angle, no exceptions. Think about it nekred, why is the armour slanted? Then you shoot broadheads at a round (ie. slanted) object and then proceed to pontificate about the validity of the test. Heaven forbid someone comes along and questions it's accuracy!

[7 REM MAG]

if your worried about that shoot the top or bottom while its sitting on its side

[nekred]

You have not proved itts invalidity so therefore you cannot reject my hypothesis so is accepted valid until proved otherwise...


here is the logic you are missing.

You want to test a broadhead to see if it works. You choose to do this before shooting at an animal.

You also want to shoot something tougher than an animal but approximate shape.

So a barrell.....

broadhead shape, and integrity is important to ensure it does the job required.

You shoot a broadhead through a barrel which is tougher than the animal and it retains shape and integrity. The other Brand X does not.

Now which broadhead has a higher probability of retaining its shape and integrity through an animal and.

Which one has the higher probability of losing its shape and integrity through an animal!....

[russ]

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

thunderheads are an awsome arrow head , ive used 100/125/and 85 grn and they all were awsome flew true and held up through tuff bone on elk and moose and never stoped on deer ive never used anything but a thunderhead if it works well dont fix it

[nekred]

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.

Fair enough.... just don't have one handy... and they stink if you keep it in the backard...

Also I believe in testing things harder then the use.....

I shoot at 60 yards and hunt at 40 for same reason.. same logic

[Stinky Coyote]

what you're saying if this was a test it isn't valid? ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fid69BhCINs

Personally I think shooting a livestock carcass with the hide still on it would be far more valid than a steel skinned barrel.


for once i'm going to agree with you on something russ:D :D

rocket ultimate steels with the little bacon skinner blades don't do well on the barrel...i think all 3 blades get stripped but i shot a huge bodied whitetail deer quartering away at approx. 35 yrds at about 290 fps with a 360 gr total weight and had no problems, little broadhead went through the heart and drove deep into the brisket up front on opposite side....this was after friend had killed a few critters including a 250 lb plus hog with them no problems and the hog quartering away having arrows come out the front end....

so yeah...not a fan of the barrel test....just shows you what will better kill a barrel is all....:evilgrin:

here's the big bodied one i shot with apparently the wimpiest of broadheads going...at least according to the barrel test:rolleye2:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/824048/5733955/39166487.jpg

he went 60 yrds tops

[archdlx]

Isn't there quite a difference between live and dead animal testing.
I know when I managed a hog barn, I had the opertunity to shoot (rifle), many deads and quite a few sick, beyond redemption. Bullets from 308's and 22-250's rarely passed through the "live" ones, but at equal distance, (proped w/sawhorses and rope) every thing was through and through. These were all lung shots.....nothing that hit bone went through-except my 340 ROY!

archdlx.....for what it's worth

[CNP]

http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/lw/thread2.cfm?forum=23&threadid=28362&messages=901&CATEGORY=9

archdlx made me recall a thread on another forum. In 1999 a guy posts a thread about flinging arows into a dead cow and 9 years later it still gets replies. 901 replies and counting lol.....the last reply was posted on the 4th of Mar this year.

[Stinky Coyote]

maybe some encouraging news for you treeguy?...


just got the latest bowhunting world mag in the mail and chuck adams had an article about broadheads and arrows....

short story is he hates not seeing exits on his critters (full pass throughs) so he shoots at least 100-150 grains heavier than all the guys (including myself) shooting the light fast stuff closer to ibo, he even outright attacked all the bowhunting shows that showed pathetic penetration and animals running off with arrow sticking out of entrance side and recoveries happening late in night or animal already bloated because found next day that he said you can see if your paying attention etc...he said only way you shouldn't blow right through your target is quartering away and you stuff into the front shoulder stuff on opposite side and thats it...

anyhow, pretty sure he shot thunderheads for along time but he believes the cut on contact or very sharp slender point tips are best for broadheads, then went to to talk about mechanicals and the jackknife type how much energy they lose upon opening etc. and of course true arrow flight so all the energy is behind the broadhead driving forward and not being lost because the arrow is wobbling etc.................and i never thought i'd see it....

he said the type of mechanical where the blades push back, like the snyper or rage 2 blade he thinks are okay! (i did a double take)....in fact he shot his entire 2007 season with rage 2 blades expandables and blew through everything, all his trophies (lots in the book again as usual) including his big 6x8 bull elk at 50 yrds....complete pass through.....

so whaddayaknow....he isn't stuck in the past afterall:lol: he actually tried something new and likes it....

he agreed with hill's theories about the best penetrating broadheads are cut on contact with a blade length 3 times longer than the diameter....so 1" diam broadhead would be 3" long tip to end of blade and that would be the deepest penetrating design you could have....obviously something to consider when hunting cape buffalo but we can get away with alot less on this continent

not a bad read.....wonder when he'll start shooting lighter arrows and blazer vanes and be converted once again?:D :lol:

so there ya go tree....if ole chucky endorses it then you know its all good....the snypers just annoyed me because i couldn't get them all to spin....but they are cut on contact and lose zero energy opening up....that would be the better option for expandable broadheads...maybe the rage broadheads spin better

the whitetail on my wall downstairs was shot with a snyper at 30 yrds, i hit a bit far back and got liver but he only went 40 yrds....so field performance was excellent...i'll email you a pic

later

[russ]

Stinky - you won't get snypers to spin, the darn blade on the point isn't centered on it's axis. I mulled over that very problem myself, but if you check carefully, you'll see that the tip blade can be off center quite a bit. I haven't tried it yet, but I think I'm going to pull the tip blades off next time and check them. The only thing that kept me from not shooting them when I first got them was the awesome penetration I got on my practice but. They were going through and killing the grainery behind while thunderheads, rocky premieres & wasps were stopping in the butt, no pass through. I was convinced then and there! Oddly, the snyper failed the steel barrel test - so like I've been saying all along - the test is only valid for hunting barrels.

Chucks right on the shoulder blade thing too, if the hit is in the shoulder on the entry side - it's a MAJOR miss. I've been digging through my photo's to find a good leg back shot with enough definition and I can't seem to locate one. What it comes down to is this, on a properly placed shot, the shoulder blade is NEVER in the way. EVER!

[TreeGuy]

What it comes down to is this, on a properly placed shot, the shoulder blade is NEVER in the way. EVER!

Yeah, but for those 1 out of 10 bowhunting shots that aren't perfect (YES I'm being sarcastic:rolleye2: ), I'd feel pretty confident in a BH/Shaft combo that can pierce a barrel! Kindda makes moose sholders an option on a less than 'perfect' shot. I'm with Nek on this one.

Tree

[russ]

TreeGuy - let me re-phrase so the shoulder blade lovers here understand it. Hitting the shoulder blade IS NOT a kill shot with archery equipment. It's a long ugly tracking job that will probably end very badly. I also think it's the biggest mistake cross over hunters make. They've been taught from day one to take out the shoulder blade, not sure why other than it causes a huge amount of damage. It IS not a successful archery shot, there's actually very little lung behind the blade. It works for rifle/ML because of the peripheral damage it causes through fragmentation or at the very least it disables the animal to the point of allowing for a second shot. This is archery, and for intents and purposes there are no second shots.

[gulogulo]

I use the Thunderhead 125 grain fixed blades. Used them since I started bowhunting and have been successful, so why change? They have harvested me deer and moose from 20 -60 yards with one hit on each animal. I like them and will keep using them.

[TreeGuy]

Russ, I agree with you 100% on that point, but allow me to re-phrase also. Perhaps the only shot you have is on an animal quartering TOWARD your position. In that situation, I'd feel confident taking the shot due to the fact that my BH/arrow combination has been proven effective via the barrel test. I guess that's the point I was trying to make.:wave:

Tree

[russ]

. Perhaps the only shot you have is on an animal quartering TOWARD your position.

Tree

Then there is no shot, it's a pass. NO matter the size of the animal or the date on the calendar.

[Islander]

Comparing a barrel to an animal is like apples to oranges, but I think it would give me a nice measure of confidence in my BH if it could plow through a barrel and come out okay. I'm sure that there are loads of heads that would miserably fail the barrel test, yet still perform perfectly on an animal, even through the shoulder blade on a less than perfect hit. Probably some the other way around as well. I do like the idea of my BH being tough enough for the barrel though.

[nekred]

I certainly would not ever condone hitting a shoulder blade on an animal ever.

The barrell torture test is overkill. But I know the broadhead that survives a barrell will survive impact with a rib!...

witha bow you have to stay away from shoulder blade....

That being said i shot a trotting mule deer...(Long story) at 8 yards and arow smashed through the ribs an went through the legbone on the far side and continued on through the grain clipping of barley heads.

On my very first deer it jumped my string and had an ideal shot turned into a less than ideal shot. The arrow went through the hindquarters. the deer run away with arrow in his *****. i was absolutely sick!.... i recovered the deer after 30 yards. I found out that the arrow had cut the iliac arteries and broadhead was through skin on far side. it was a rocky mountain premiere and went through 5 and 1/2 inches of bone total in the pelvic region. One blade was cracked but intact. if the broadhead would not have been able to survive a barrel it probably would not have resulted in a dead deer!...

[Stinky Coyote]

yeah...you need a tuff broadhead if you like playin butt darts forsure;) :lol:

you walked right into that one nekred:D

[Stinky Coyote]

Then there is no shot, it's a pass. NO matter the size of the animal or the date on the calendar.


can't kill em if you don't shoot at em russ.....

at least thats the flipside to that story:D

[russ]

Are you saying you would take a quartering to shot through a shoulder blade on purpose?

[Stinky Coyote]

maybe

[Stinky Coyote]

Are you saying you would take a quartering to shot on purpose?

wouldn't really pay attention specifically to trying to do in a shoulder blade....but depending on the situation, range, type of animal, alertness etc. etc..........maybe

took a nice muley buck bedded quartering too....right through his heart and arrow imbedded 10" into bale he was sleeping up against....57 yrds with 420 grains, wasp boss bullet at 278 fps....worked out great

can't kill em if you don't shoot at em, my comfort level will no doubt be different than everyone elses....and everyone elses will be different from everyone elses too.....just pointing out the fact that you can't kill it if you don't shoot at it

:D :D

[gube]

Here is some good reading for broadhead testing.
http://www.american-hunter.com/broadheads/broadhead_test.htm

[Trav]

heck they are making hybrid cars why cannot they make us a hybrid broadhead........lol

[Knotter]

2 blade cut on contact broadheads have my vote. I prefer the ones with a single bevel to get the camming action and spiral wound channels on contact. I use 190 gr Grizzly El Grandes with the bevel set up at 30 degrees and shaving sharp. If they work on cape water buffalo... they should work on Bambi's dad. Simple design with deadly results.

[chuck0039]

I started bowhunting last year. I first used the mechanical blades Tekan2 they where shooting 6" to the left and 3" high compared to my field tips. This year I put on some muzzy 3 blades and they almost shoot the same as my field tips. I carry both with me, but I will use the muzzy fixed blades over the tekan2 mechanical blades this year.

I just hope this year I will be able to let one fly as I have yet to kill anything with my bow.

[ArchJeepR]

Shot a 4x4 Whitetail this year with a G5 Tekan 2. I only pull about 55 lbs, the broadhead broke a rib on entry, another on exit and was a complete pass through. I'd say it was tough enough. Can't complain about the blood trail and field point accuracy.
I use the G5 Montec as well. They have always shot the same as my field points out of the box, but I prefer the cutting diameter of the Tekan.

[Map Maker]

I'm a big fan of the tekan2 as well. The buck i shot last year was the same, broke a rib on the way thru, nice blood trail and quick kill.
I have also found them to shoot the same as my field points. I use 2- tekan2 and 2- G5 montec in my quiver. G5 for stalking and tekan2 for the treestand.

[munyee4321]

For you Tekan II fans out there, you should try the new G5 Tekan, I'v been useing the Tekan II the last 2 years and switched over to the new one the came out there year. Same field point accuracy and soild stainless steel constructions. The difference the cutting head is now 1/2" instead of 5/8" and the cutting dia is 1 1/2" dia standard. The blade retention is much better and they included a second steel O-ring so when the blades deploy they don't damage your inserts. Oh and they are 3 times sharper out of the box then the older style Tekan IIs. If your still a fan of the Tekan IIs if you hurry you might beable to get them cheap still from Bass pro or Cabelas they are onsale for discontinued item.

Pics of my Mulie i took on the 8th with the Tekans

[Stinky Coyote]

nice buck!

[russ]

For you Tekan II fans out there, you should try the new G5 Tekan, I'v been useing the Tekan II the last 2 years and switched over to the new one the came out there year. Same field point accuracy and soild stainless steel constructions. The difference the cutting head is now 1/2" instead of 5/8" and the cutting dia is 1 1/2" dia standard. The blade retention is much better and they included a second steel O-ring so when the blades deploy they don't damage your inserts. Oh and they are 3 times sharper out of the box then the older style Tekan IIs. If your still a fan of the Tekan IIs if you hurry you might beable to get them cheap still from Bass pro or Cabelas they are onsale for discontinued item.

Pics of my Mulie i took on the 8th with the Tekans

That's a Beauty!