Federal Conservatives screwing us with ammo storage laws now.

[rugatika]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/owners+decry+monstrous+changes+ammunition+rules/6405308/story.html

Apologies to ONESHOTJOHN who has this story going in the guns section as well. This needs to spread fast...and your MP's need to get a blast on the phone over this tout suite...(or however you spell it).

The feds are bringing in ammo locked away rules. Just another way for the cops to bust you for having a stray 22lr cartridge in your cupholder or in your pocket. (oh no, we will be using common sense in applying the law)...bwahhahahha... The cons won't be getting a red cent from me until they throw this bill out. Talk about sticking a knife in the back of gun owners in this country that supported the cons.

Natural Resources official JEAN-LUC ARPIN (why does the "heritage" of that name suprise me??...) said there would be a 6 month "grace" period to allow affected groups to come into compliance.

I want every damn commie kicked out of the federal infrastucture and back into the liberal party where they belong.

Now...hopefully someone will come along and tell me my anger is misplaced and this is just some stupid misunderstanding. Am I missing something here? This seems really bizarre.



EDIT: Looks like this isn't the conservatives that brought this about as a bill, but they are regulatory rule changes made by bureaucrats in Natural Resources. Anyone that has a fingerprint on this crap better be job shopping by the end of the week. I will still be calling my MP. :)

[HunterDave]

Well, I'll let my thought be known to my MP tomorrow.

[walking buffalo]

This is a link to the proposed changes. Get a bottle, it will take a while to get through all of it.

Vol. 146, No. 11 — March 17, 2012
Explosives Regulations, 2012
Statutory authority Explosives Act
Sponsoring department Department of Natural Resources

REGULATORY IMPACT ANALYSIS STATEMENT

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2012/2012-03-17/html/reg1-eng.html



Interesting note. From the article. Arpin said firearms groups, including the National Firearms Association and various hunting and fishing groups, were consulted before the draft regulations were written.



From the Official Government notice release on March 17, 2012. To what extent was the NRA and hunting groups consulted? The release says groups WILL be consulted, not that they HAVE been consulted.

Consultation
This modernization proposal was initiated in the 1990s and was developed with consultations with key partners and stakeholders. Given the long-term nature of this project, stakeholders are thoroughly aware of the proposed changes and they have been consulted on numerous occasions. Stakeholders support the proposed changes as they will modernize the explosives regulations, make compliance easier, and implement modern industrial practices into regulations. Other stakeholder groups will be consulted on specific sections of the revised Explosives Regulations. For example, the Canadian Fertilizer Institute was briefed on changes to the Restricted Components Regulations.

Ongoing informal discussions are held with the heads of the four major stakeholder organizations:

•Canadian Explosives Industry Association (CEAEC)
•Petroleum Services Association of Canada (PSAC)
•Canadian Pyrotechnic Council (CPC)
•Canadian Association of Geophysical Contractors (CAGC)



Contact
Dr. Christopher Watson
Director and Chief Inspector of Explosives
Explosives Safety and Security Branch
Department of National Resources
1431 Merivale Road
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0G1
Telephone: 613-948-5170
Fax: 613-948-5195
Email: Christopher.Watson@NRCan.gc.ca

[rugatika]

Dollars to donuts these are the actions of liberal bureaucrats acting from within as retaliation for getting rid of the Long Gun Registry. Harper needs to fire every single one of these rats!! How many times have I said liberalism is a disease. You let it fester in one corner and next thing you know you have an outbreak on your hands. Squash these bugs now! And then start firing all the other ones, systematically rooting them out of every dept in Canada. Enough of this crap!

[32-40win]

There are some questions to be raised on it. One version of an explanation they put out, of the original proposal was in 2009, it specified that they would go by powder weight in loaded ammo.. Not sure how you would define that now, it doesn't appear to be spelled out in this version.
There is a pretty big thread over on Gunnutz on it. The regs do specify a wooden locker or a non-sparking material. I'm not sure if the Firearms Act safe storage rules override any of it or not. One of those things a person will have to read a few times to get the details straight on it.

There is a lot to absorb in this stuff.

[Rocky7]

Dollars to donuts these are the actions of liberal bureaucrats acting from within as retaliation for getting rid of the Long Gun Registry. Harper needs to fire every single one of these rats!! How many times have I said liberalism is a disease. You let it fester in one corner and next thing you know you have an outbreak on your hands. Squash these bugs now! And then start firing all the other ones, systematically rooting them out of every dept in Canada. Enough of this crap!

You're right. An email goes to my MP and Toews and the PM today.

This was disappointing news first thing in the morning. The Borg never gives up.

[Frans]

Just what issue/problem are they trying to solve with this?

[laut]

That guy is a nut case from Ottawa. Nothing but a wolf in a sheep skin. He is liar and full of BS. I am glad that he is not from Saskatchewan.

[DanJ]

I keep my ammunition locked up so my ganddaughter doesn't get into it.

[sillyak]

I keep my ammunition locked up so my ganddaughter doesn't get into it.

That is your choice. The problem here is they are trying to take away that choice.

[tullfan]

I keep my ammo locked up because its the safe and legal thing to do.

Tullfan

[DanJ]

That is your choice. The problem here is they are trying to take away that choice.

Someone who leaves ammo lying around where kids can get at it needs help making choices.

[sillyak]

Someone who leaves ammo lying around where kids can get at it needs help making choices.

I dont have kids, should I have to lock my ammo up? It's my goddamn choice, not the feds. Some of you welcome big brother with open arms.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Someone who leaves ammo lying around where kids can get at it needs help making choices.

this way of thinking is just downright scary....maybe if they impose some sort of "firearms act" irresponsible parents wont have to do ANY parenting at all....the government will do it for them!

Ever layed your loaded magazine in the cup holder as you drove to a new spot Dan? Criminal charges seem like a proper reaction to that? Never forgot ONE loaded 22 round in your pocket after a day of gopher shooting? Hard to believe anyone who shoots would support this kind of garbage.

teach your kids respect for firearms and ammo and they wont put a loaded round in a vise and hit it with a hammer.

Either way...its not a safety issue...its a control issue being tabled....they are losing the registry...this is the equivalent of a hissy fit from a maniacal ex wife

[Rocky7]

Just what issue/problem are they trying to solve with this?

The problem of private gun ownership.

There are two ways to ban guns:

1. Ban them. This will focus attention on the tyranny, ideology and general irrationality of what you do and will galvanize opposition. It's harder.

2. Make gun ownership more and more irritating, annoying and troublesome. That will reduce gun ownership over time. Then, when you take away people's guns, a lot of the ones that are left won't care any more.

We're looking at #2.

Many will go along with it. Like this article describes in Britain:

http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/12018/it-will-never-happen-here/

[pattycr125]

the only solution is to buy lots of guns!

[sillyak]

The problem of private gun ownership.

There are two ways to ban guns:

1. Ban them. This will focus attention on the tyranny, ideology and general irrationality of what you do and will galvanize opposition. It's harder.

2. Make gun ownership more and more irritating, annoying and troublesome. That will reduce gun ownership over time. Then, when you take away people's guns, a lot of the ones that are left won't care any more.

We're looking at #2.

Many will go along with it. Like this article describes in Britain:

http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/12018/it-will-never-happen-here/

Not only just irritating and troublesome, but they are setting traps in legislation that give police a blanket charge to hold against pretty much any gun owner on a whim. If they make so many rules and regulations that it becomes almost impossible to abide by them all, well then we all become criminals. It's sickening and it must stop.

[Bob Lee Swagger]

the only solution is to buy lots of guns!

Working on it...

Gotta front run all this BS before it is too late.


:angry3:

[elkhunter11]

I have to wonder as to how many of the people posting support for these new laws, also supported the long gun registry.
We already have more laws than we need, we don't need any more. It seems that there are always three types of reactions to these new laws, people that take the anti gun groups side and support them, the people that complain to their friends or on the forums, and those that contact their MPs to express their concerns. Only the last group will help to preserve private gun ownership in Canada. I have sent several e-mails concerning the present and proposed fireams legislation to my MP, and I will keep doing so, in the hope that more people will do the same, and the MPs will not let these bills pass. We have almost won our first victory, that being abolishing the long gun registry, but we can't let our guard down, as the anti gun groups will continue to attack Canadian gun owners.

[cover]

Anyone surprised ? I humour that I see is storage of ammunition is targeted. I see it as more mis-direction while they make ammunition / components harder and harder to obtain so "storage of ammunition " will be a moot point , because there will nothing to store . See the humour yet ? Making your firearm a paddle to use up s*** creek or a good support for your tomato plants.

end of rant

[Rocky7]

I have to wonder as to how many of the people posting support for these new laws, also supported the long gun registry.

The Gun Zombies are better organized than we are.

[huntinstuff]

Hmmmm

This would probably restrict ammo storage in hunting shops too

How much can they have in stock....

I normally have 50-60 thousand rounds of various ammo at any given time. Maybe 40lbs of powders too. Im sure others have a lot more than me

[32-40win]

And then, there is this from the NFA;

http://www.nfa.ca/news/explosives-regulations-2012-r%C3%A8glement-de-2012-sur-les-explosifs-0

Check the link they put in to the note from NRCAN about section 14.
It appears to be after the Mar 17 gazette release;

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/minerals-metals/explosives/4422#p14

[jack88]

Email sent to MP, enough is enough already.

[mudbug]

Email sent to my MP :mad0030:

[Rocky7]

I sent email to Harper, Toews, and others who should be interested.

Here's some addresses. Add you own local MP:

Harper.S@parl.gc.ca,
Toews.V@parl.gc.ca
Breitkreuz.G@parl.gc.ca
rob.anders@parl.gc.ca


What's with these guys? They must have too much time on their hands; they keep passing laws to solve problems that do not exist and every time they do this, we lose a bit of our innate freedom, dignity and sovereignty.

Freedom and rights are ours because we are human; not because the Government gives us some permission slip or some "privilege".

:argue2:

[elkhunter11]

The Gun Zombies are better organized than we are.


And their own members do not support the enemy by willingly accepting new legislation without question.

[timsesink]

SEND OUT EMAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO point on complaining here if they don't hear you there!

[rugatika]

Talked to my MP's office about it today. He said he would pass my concerns on to my MP and yes he had read the article himself this morning, but hadn't gotten any calls on it yet. I also told him I would like to see the liberal bureaucrats responsible for this fired.

[leeaspell]

Email sent.

[Dick284]

Letters faxed to my MP, and the Minister for NrCan, Joe Oliver.

I asked why our tax dollars are being wasted on such garbage(yes I used the word garbage), and further asked that the Bureaucrats should be held accountable for their time, and questioned from whom they get their direction.

I also sent a quick email to Mr. Watson at NrCan.

I put it very simply to Watson. I do not support the changes. There is no problem. Quite wasting the tax payers money.

[leeaspell]

I used the word garbage in mine as well, lol. Great minds think alike eh......or is it fools seldom differ?

[Dick284]

I just call it as I see it.

Being cutesy wootsey is just implying you are not all that upset.

[HunterDave]

here's some addresses. Add you own local mp:

harper.s@parl.gc.ca,
toews.v@parl.gc.ca
breitkreuz.g@parl.gc.ca
rob.anders@parl.gc.ca


done!!!!

[Rocky7]

Way to go, guys!

If you're stuck for words, shovel in some from here:

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=128172

[alpining]

I highly recommend that you all make an effort to read the regulation. It's not all that bad once you know which part is relevant. Most of it has nothing to do with us. The more precise you are with your letters of concern, the better it will be for all of us.

The portion applicable to "small arms cartridge users" is Part 14, which begins at section 267.

If you use factory ammo only, sections 268-270 have definitions, and "Rules for Users" are in sections 278-281.

If you reload, in addition to the above, section 282 has further definitions, and "Rules for Users" are in sections 296-305.


(If any of this info is in error, please post a correction.)

[alpining]

Do I correctly read the NRC regs to not have anything to say about ammunition while it is in your truck? "Storage" seems to apply only to a "dwelling" or "storage unit" in the regs.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Do I correctly read the NRC regs to not have anything to say about ammunition while it is in your truck? "Storage" seems to apply only to a "dwelling" or "storage unit" in the regs.

There is a section on transportation that I have not finished digesting yet... what seems to be missing is the concept of "in use"; if I am at the range or out hunting, the ammunition is neither in storage nor in transit.

ARG

[Rocky7]

I highly recommend that you all make an effort to read the regulation. It's not all that bad once you know which part is relevant.

It is a draconian, unnecessary law that will make gun ownership more stressful, bothersome and risky. There was no problem. No "solution" was needed. Ammunition is just not dangerous in the grand scheme of things. Hence, a "stockpile" of something that is not dangerous is also not dangerous. Get past the propaganda and think!

Incidentally, this new law fits with the Master Plan at the U.N. Why on earth would you tolerate it?

This is a Gun Zombie law, make no mistake about it.

(If any of this info is in error, please post a correction.)

Consider yourself corrected.

[Rocky7]

I am still surprised by the number of gun owners in Canada who don't know how Gun Zombies work and don't hear what is coming up through the bush.

This is a very good article by a British ex-pat describing what happened there and how it happened. The same organizations - with a lot of the same people - are at work internationally and here in Canada. We need to "get it".

http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/12018/it-will-never-happen-here/


Pay attention or pay through the nose.

[alpining]

It is a draconian, unnecessary law that will make gun ownership more stressful, bothersome and risky. There was no problem. No "solution" was needed. Ammunition is just not dangerous in the grand scheme of things. Hence, a "stockpile" of something that is not dangerous is also not dangerous. Get past the propaganda and think!

Incidentally, this new law fits with the Master Plan at the U.N. Why on earth would you tolerate it?

This is a Gun Zombie law, make no mistake about it.



Consider yourself corrected.

Complaints were that the regulation was difficult to try to read. When I said "it's not all that bad", I was referring to the fact that we are all capable of reading and understanding the regulation if you know what sections apply. Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Do you think that forum members should fire off form letters that others have written without even looking at the regulation that is the subject of the form letter? Now, you and I have never met, but you seem like the sort of guy who would want to encourage individual responsibility.

Is it a gun zombie law? (great phrase, by the way) I think individuals should read and decide for themselves. Personally, I can't tell at this point. I have my suspicions, but I need more information before I can be sure.

[alpining]

And I COMPLETELY agree on your point about the basically safe nature of ammunition. I'm really curious about what 'problem' they claim to be solving with this change.

[Rocky7]

And I COMPLETELY agree on your point about the basically safe nature of ammunition. I'm really curious about what 'problem' they claim to be solving with this change.

The "problem" is private gun ownership.

Spend some time reading the NRA article I posted, google IANSA, find out that our very own Wendy Cukier was a founding member of IANSA, look at their Model Law for gun control, etc.

Absolutely, it is important for each of us to get educated and think for ourselves. It is crucial. The form letters posted here are just to make it easier for some to cut and paste something that reflects their own views.

Find out who our enemies are....like Ms. Peters (a compadre of Cukier)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmg_zMuQEDk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WwLz9hBZfM

There is a lot of material on the internet if you seek it. The MSM will not tell you any of this because they are a willing partner of our opponents.

Make no mistake about this:

1. These people mean business.
2. They are committed.
3. They are smart.
4. They are organized and international (that means here, too)
4. And they know how a lot about public relations.

Here's a short Canadian primer I found. Ignore the dopey background music. The facts are true:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE56wINSQx8

[cover]

It is a draconian, unnecessary law that will make gun ownership more stressful, bothersome and risky. There was no problem. No "solution" was needed. Ammunition is just not dangerous in the grand scheme of things. Hence, a "stockpile" of something that is not dangerous is also not dangerous. Get past the propaganda and think!

Incidentally, this new law fits with the Master Plan at the U.N. Why on earth would you tolerate it?

This is a Gun Zombie law, make no mistake about it.



Consider yourself corrected.

And best of all is Allison Redford spent time ( trained ) at the U.N.

*sarcasm*

[Dick284]

You guys do know that the Feds (CPC) has said they will not be going forward with these proposals?



www.torontosun.com/2012/04/05/feds-back-off-proposed-ammo-rules



Stop doing a nut..we've won yet another one.

Come to think of it didn't NRCan try a similar stunt a couple years back?


Time to move some folks on in NRCan Me thinks.

[Canuck Bob]

I'm getting worried about black powder availability for my Flinter! I have young kids who are well trained but access to ammo is tight. A box might end up on a high shelf but gets stashed quick. Sadly if anything firearms related gets stolen I want to point to the ruined wall it was bolted to with a cop. I have decided to buy a locking steel cabinet but I don't think you have to! To coin a popular label, I'm a libertarian!

We should all point out how fragile our vote really is to our legislators. I raised stink over non legislated gun control over extended PAL waiting periods to my MP. Two days later I got my PAL issued over the phone by a very polite lady.

We can never rest. Political action id paramount and using our anger to keep us motivated is a good way to deal with the frustration.

[Rocky7]

OTTAWA - The Conservative MP who led the fight against the long-gun registry appears to have the backing of the prime minister in shooting down proposed changes to ammunition storage rules that have upset hunters and other firearms users.

"They're not changing," Candice Hoeppner told Sun News Network. "So I think law-abiding gun owners can rest assured the storage requirements that are currently in place will continue."

The Prime Minister's Office confirmed Hoeppner is right.
"Correct," Andrew McDougall, the prime minister's director of communications, said in an e-mail. "Our government will not make changes that unfairly target law-abiding citizens with unnecessary or arbitrary obligations."

That seems to trump National Resources Minister Joe Oliver, whose ministry proposed the new ammunition storage rules as part of an update of decades-old explosives regulations.

Oliver has said the rules need to be updated "without unduly burdening gun owners."

Firearms lawyer Solomon Friedman said gun owners need clarity because the regulations are unworkable for people who use firearms as tools - or who live far from police and may have to defend themselves against a home invader.

"We're going to see a whole new set of traps for the unwary, which is really what these regulations will become," Freidman said. "What this does is it creates a whole new class of paper criminals - people who've committed no wrong, who've actually not misused their firearm in any way, but simply because they may have transgressed an administrative regulation they face a
criminal charge. That's unacceptable."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/04/20120409-180759.html

[dgl1948]

You guys do know that the Feds (CPC) has said they will not be going forward with these proposals?




All they have refered to is the safe storage section. What about the other changes that could cause problems?

[32-40win]

The other thing that they could clear up is ammo possession weight, the Q&A said it was net powder weight, wasn't stated clearly in the regs as shown as far as I could tell. IE; they said 225kg, they claimed they meant 225kg in powder weight net in the ammo, not the total weight of the loaded rounds.
The 50cal or larger is a bit of a misleading guideline also as to licencing, the caliber should not be involved. I think they were referring to the net powder in a 50BMG, but, don't ask me to prove that.
It was also somewhat confusing as to what weights of powder or ammo could be hauled to and displayed by someone at say a gun show.One needed a lawyer to figure that one out.
Those are a few of the things I noticed at least.
No matter what the politicians say now, something will come up for changes somewhere along the line, just have to keep an eye out on it.

[Rugerlover]

this way of thinking is just downright scary....maybe if they impose some sort of "firearms act" irresponsible parents wont have to do ANY parenting at all....the government will do it for them!

Ever layed your loaded magazine in the cup holder as you drove to a new spot Dan? Criminal charges seem like a proper reaction to that? Never forgot ONE loaded 22 round in your pocket after a day of gopher shooting? Hard to believe anyone who shoots would support this kind of garbage.

teach your kids respect for firearms and ammo and they wont put a loaded round in a vise and hit it with a hammer.

Either way...its not a safety issue...its a control issue being tabled....they are losing the registry...this is the equivalent of a hissy fit from a maniacal ex wife

X2