renovation question

[TheClash]

there seems to be some folks on here that are either in the renovation game or very knowledgable about it. my question is this: i have a smaller older home in lethbridge that my wife and i bought about 2 years ago. we reno'd the upstairs and it looks great now....but out basement is...well a n old basement...pretty much unfinished (one room is still a dirt floor room...my dungeon i lock the bad nieces and nephews in) haha....3/4's of the basement is concrete floored...washer and dryer down there as well as a nice work shop/room for myself.

i guess my question is...would it be "worth" it to totally reno the basement. how much worth does a finished/reno'd basement usually add to an older house?...most of the houses we looked at when shopping for a house had unfinished basements..if they had a real basement at all. usually just a glorified crawl space.

we are hoping to sell the house in the next few years after i finish school and hopefully get gainfully employed....so any opinions? i know there are a lot of variable..so i am not asking for specifics...just generalizations or experiences. thanks..

[bowchaser]

there seems to be some folks on here that are either in the renovation game or very knowledgable about it. my question is this: i have a smaller older home in lethbridge that my wife and i bought about 2 years ago. we reno'd the upstairs and it looks great now....but out basement is...well a n old basement...pretty much unfinished (one room is still a dirt floor room...my dungeon i lock the bad nieces and nephews in) haha....3/4's of the basement is concrete floored...washer and dryer down there as well as a nice work shop/room for myself.

i guess my question is...would it be "worth" it to totally reno the basement. how much worth does a finished/reno'd basement usually add to an older house?...most of the houses we looked at when shopping for a house had unfinished basements..if they had a real basement at all. usually just a glorified crawl space.

we are hoping to sell the house in the next few years after i finish school and hopefully get gainfully employed....so any opinions? i know there are a lot of variable..so i am not asking for specifics...just generalizations or experiences. thanks..
depends on a lot obviously. If you have a small house, say main floor is 1100sqft., some people won't even look at a house of that size without a finished basement as it is not liveable space. Some see it as an opportunity becasue they are handy and it won't be worth as much without it finished. A dirt floor is definently a negative for many reasons so I'd start with that. Not too hard to throw up a few walls around the W/D to create a laundry room, carpet the rest, paint, light fixtures, etc. There are a few realtors here as well who will likely chime in. I am in a house which I have reno'd most of, I am planning on moving in a year like you and won't look at anything without a finished basement and a garage. I don't want to spend most of my free time finishing the house, been there...

[TheClash]

sorry my bad...only one room has a dirt floor still....the rest of the basement is concrete already.

[winged1]

What would be your finished headroom, floor to cieling hieght.

The renovations game is based on a simple formula; Price paid + reno expenses + desired profit = sale price.

Is it worth it? That answer can only come from a sound knowledge of your local resale market and ability to accurately quote your reno costs. A trusting Realtor can provide you some stats on what people are looking for, and what they are willing to pay.

Don't shortchange yourself on reno costs. Use quotes from dependable contractors. If you decide to perform any of the work yourself, still use a third party quote as a costing guide. This way you can pay yourself the going rate (assuming your work is of equal quality)

[TheClash]

What would be your finished headroom, floor to cieling hieght.

The renovations game is based on a simple formula; Price paid + reno expenses + desired profit = sale price.

Is it worth it? That answer can only come from a sound knowledge of your local resale market and ability to accurately quote your reno costs. A trusting Realtor can provide you some stats on what people are looking for, and what they are willing to pay.

Don't shortchange yourself on reno costs. Use quotes from dependable contractors. If you decide to perform any of the work yourself, still use a third party quote as a costing guide. This way you can pay yourself the going rate (assuming your work is of equal quality)


floor to ceiling height is a concern we have talked about.... i guess the next step is getting an agent in to give us some details. just hate only having 2/3rds of a house to enjoy. and there are some changes i would like to do to the house that would make it much more livable.

thanks for the advice guys.

[KyleM]

As said earlier, ceiling height is important.

Your best bet is to sit down and figure out what you can afford on the reno.
A budget is the big mistake every DIY'r makes....they dont come up with one and by the end of the project they are frustrated with the final product.




Don't shortchange yourself on reno costs. Use quotes from dependable contractors. If you decide to perform any of the work yourself, still use a third party quote as a costing guide. This way you can pay yourself the going rate (assuming your work is of equal quality)

Please, dont waste our time with nonsense like this.
If you dont plan on going with a contractor, dont get them to measure and quote as they are already extremely busy.

I dont mind phone calls asking for advice but getting bogus quotes gives all contractors a major headache.

[gopherslayer]

Don't shortchange yourself on reno costs. Use quotes from dependable contractors. If you decide to perform any of the work yourself, still use a third party quote as a costing guide. This way you can pay yourself the going rate (assuming your work is of equal quality)




Please, dont waste our time with nonsense like this.
If you dont plan on going with a contractor, dont get them to measure and quote as they are already extremely busy.

I dont mind phone calls asking for advice but getting bogus quotes gives all contractors a major headache.

Amen bother

[winged1]

Im my books, no work begins until a quote is finalized, and I've made it a habit to get more than one quote. Somebody walks away without work.

One of the biggest problems today (with amount of demand) is that many contractors work for the buck and dismiss constumer service. There are far too many fly by nighters to not nail down a commitment ('quote' being the instrument).

On the other side of the coin, many contractors have poor sales ability. You can't sell if they don't call. If your too busy, and don't have time, a simply qualifying process reveals the value of potential contracts.

[Grizzly Adams]

Tough call. Most houses, past a certain vintage, weren't build with the idea of downstairs occupancy. Besides the low headroom problem, you'll have to plan on having some windows, especially if you have a bedroom down there. I would say it can be done, but probably not worth the effort or cost. Wouldn't hurt though to tidy it up.
Grizz

[KyleM]

winged, thats exactly why contractors start to charge a couple hundred for quotes.
If I know Im bidding up against some clown......I tell the customer I dont want their business because they are wasting my time. Most good contractors refuse to bid on jobs because they are already busy from word of mouth.

What people need to do is (as I said earlier) come up with a budget and what they want as a target for a final outcome on the project.
You then go out and find a reputable contractor by asking for a number of references.

You cant auction off good quality work.


TheClash, I just returned your PM

[winged1]

the original question was would it be "worth" it to totally reno the basement.

Other than satisfaction, the answer isn't found by adding up your bills after the fact. Actually, it will answer the question, but at an inopportune time.
Obtaining quotes is an astute method of analizing the viability of any capital project.

Say someone comes up with a budget that sounds good for them, only to find out that they where way out when the quote comes in. If it doesn't fit thier formula, you ain't working.

Reminds me of several discussions with the wife (contractor), where we agree that the easiest sale is with a prospect who's expectations (financial), are similar to our proposals. Large differences in expected/presented typically result in a sense of distrust (not a relationship we like to enter). Hence the importance of prospecting, specifically segment marketing. You can fill your day with referrals, which reduces marketing costs, but you can never rest at driving your referrals to a higher quality (translate to profitability).

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I've seen too many times where individuals say, I can do that and save some cash. It's a trap that burdens your resources. I recommend using professionals (quotes in hand) to evaluate all capital considerations.

[LongDraw]

If you are planning to sell soon just pour concrete where it is a dirt floor and be done with it.

Basement reno's have about a 50% payback.

[TheClash]

all good suggestions, thanks guys.

[winged1]

A well illuminated space will please. A sealed and painted floor adds to the perception of usable volume.

[TheClash]

i am now thinking to just cement in the dirt room...and then go from there....maybe some carpet down there.

[7 REM MAG]

Pour the concrete, frame, insulate and drywall the walls and lay down carpet leave the rest you have a semi-finished basement that you can use and will look a lot better when being sold than a dirt floor plus its a lot cheaper than finishing the entire thing and can all be done by yourself although unless you have concrete experience it would be best the hire out as you dont want it to crack or anything. framing insulating and drywalling/taping is easy as pie and prolly wont take more than a weekend

[KyleM]

winged, do what you like...your quality will suffer, not mine.
Many contractors dont bring their standards down to bidding on jobs
unless they are large multi-million units.

Take it from a reputable contractor.

[Justanotherbuck2]

Try asking Jamie on this board I may be wrong but I think he's a real estate agent or maybe was one. Please don't quote me on that though. I'm a mechanical contractor and I have 5 staff we stopped free quotes 2 years ago. to many do it yourselfers trying to get free info and tire kickers who are really never hiring anyone. We charge a small fee fo Residential clients and refund them that price if they choose us as their contractor. People who are not willing to pay a small fee for our time and commitment are not likley buying anyway. we keep all our quotes competitive with all legitimate contractors with similar qualifications.....boy I think we hi-jacked this thread ..sorry. I prefer a developed basement kids can play down there or I can opens up alot of living space. However I have been told by others that its a draw back on the sale some want to make it more their own personal space. so if you developed it it would be your space. But like I said get advise from a realitor.

[Jamie]

Clash.
Like it has been stated, find a professional in the BIZ and get his/her opinion.
From what I know about those old time houses in Lethbridge, I probably wouldn't do a thing. But then your Basement may be different. Its hard to say with out seeing it.

I have a Realtor that I trust and do biz with in Lethbridge. Please advise if you want his name.

Here in Calgary a Basement is worth approx $15,000 more than a house with out one. It used to be $10,000 but times they are a changing.

But if your Basement is not done correctly, it wont be worth that much.. Or if its done over the top, it may be worth more.

It sounds like you should poor that concrete (if you can do it your self) and leave it at that. There are other things that will make you more $$$.

The thing about basements is that everyone thinks they can do it themselfs.
Kitchens and baths are a different animal. (Same goes for decks.. How many times have I heard.. Thats nothing I can get some buddy's over here and bang that sucker off in one weekend.. Its almost like guys want to do that project.)

I have been doing this for 10 years now and it never changes.
Good luck with your move up and use a GOOD Agent, you will not regret it.


Jamie

[Jamie]

Try asking Jamie on this board I may be wrong but I think he's a real estate agent or maybe was one. Please don't quote me on that though. I'm a mechanical contractor and I have 5 staff we stopped free quotes 2 years ago. to many do it yourselfers trying to get free info and tire kickers who are really never hiring anyone. We charge a small fee fo Residential clients and refund them that price if they choose us as their contractor. People who are not willing to pay a small fee for our time and commitment are not likley buying anyway. we keep all our quotes competitive with all legitimate contractors with similar qualifications.....boy I think we hi-jacked this thread ..sorry. I prefer a developed basement kids can play down there or I can opens up alot of living space. However I have been told by others that its a draw back on the sale some want to make it more their own personal space. so if you developed it it would be your space. But like I said get advise from a realitor.


On our Reno project, we had more than a few people ask for cash before they would do a quote. Thats what happens when people get busy. Things will change back.

Jamie

[lazy ike]

I've renovated dozens of 1900-1950 homes and without exception the basements were always a can o worms. Old wiring, low support timbers, bowed foundations made out of found aggregate, services routed in all the wrong places, etc.

It is a very different prospect to finish an older basement as opposed to new and unless you are planning on staying for the long run or living in downtown Calgary three years ago you will not see much of a return.

[winged1]

winged, do what you like...your quality will suffer, not mine.
Many contractors dont bring their standards down to bidding on jobs
unless they are large multi-million units.

I fail to see where the reduction of quality has anything to do with the discussion. I do know that the quote forms a legal obligation, wherein work standards 'should' be identified. This protects the consumer, as well as the contractor, especially if provisions are made for the consumer to contibute 'sweat equity'. It also reduces disputes.

Many contractors don't know how to professionally present themselves. That's ok in a busy market, but times are a changing as we speak.

One can enter 'quality' into this discussion though, and that would be in regards to customer relations. The 'quote' and it's delivery sets the stage for the possible relationship.

[lazy ike]

[QUOTE=winged1;125328]This protects the consumer, as well as the contractor, especially if provisions are made for the consumer to contibute 'sweat equity'. It also reduces disputes.[QUOTE]
Unless the Client is a contractor himself, "sweat equity" does not have value.

[sunnyvalesmostwanted]

i do not know much about the value of a developed basement in an older house and in lethbridge, but here in edmonton, i am in the new home business and we sell bsmt developments at 50 cents a sq ft and that does not include any bathroom, bathrooms are extra.

from what ive seen in the market as i just sold my house last year and finished building my new one and moved in sept , it seemed like the basement developments were carrying a value of anywhere from 25-50 dollars a sq ft depending on the quality of products used and layouts, etc.

Hope this helps. At the very least i would pour the new concrete and paint the floor a dark grey color wo make the concrete look cleaner and more uniform with the new pour.

[Justanotherbuck2]

You must mean $50.00 per square ft. right 5o cents must be a typo. Right, Definatley poor the concrete. Supply and placement is about $6-7 per. Ft right now by reputable concrete specialists. I know this price is current as I built my own house and wrote every cheque to every sub. this season 2007-2008. As a mechanical contractor we hate working in those older uneven floors, love seeing old houses with fresh floors.

[Jamie]

Ok here is the problem with developing a basement at $50/SQFT

Lets take a average 1000 SQFT Bung as a example.
There is no way in heck that one with a developed basement is worth $50,000more than one with a blank basement. At MOST it would be worth $15,000 more.

Jamie

BTW, if your paying $50/foot.. Your crazy! Contractors down here are advertising $27-$30. But then home buiders are allways way more expensive than contractors.