Advice: My pup won't come

[riden]

I have a 6-7 month old GSP. Until now, very well mannered and obedient. Every time I called him, he came running and excited. We have done nothing but positive reinforcement, lots of treats to teach him. I always try to make a big deal of him coming if I don't have a treat.

He wasn't as good with my wife, not bad, just not as good. So for the last week, maybe two, she has been working on it, using dog treats when he is outside. She says he was improving a lot during this time.

Last 2 or 3 days he has turned to an azzhat. Do I hate it when a dog doesn't come!! He might come 1/3 of the time, the excitement is over. The rest of the time he either ignores me, or looks at me and ignores me.

He knows what come means. I am thinking of putting in the ecollar (which he has never had on). But torn.

Advice?

[Pixel Shooter]

Isnt adolencence fun :D One of the big no no's in dog training is providing a command and having no way to enforce it! He is now at the age where it would make sense to " formalize" obedience.
One has to be careful as well how much one over praises pup for basic things, so you can make a bigger impression when you are really happy with him for doing something really special. Electronic collar is not always the answer and best suited for those who understand and know how to use if effectively with proper collar conditioning. Teach first always. For now, I would put a check cord on him so when you give the command for "here" as it is better heard by the dog then the command 'come' that you can infact re-inforce it. Lots of good dvd's on obedience, good time to whistle train as well.

[wwbirds]

Isnt adolencence fun One of the big no no's in dog training let alone retriever training is providing a command and having no way to enforce it! He is now at the age where it would make sense to " formalize" obedience.
One has to be careful as well how much one over praises pup for basic things, so you can make a bigger impression when you are really happy with him. Electronic collar is not always the answer and best suited for those who understand and know how to use if effectively with proper collar conditioning. Teach first always. For now, I would put a check cord on him so when you give the command for "here" as it is better heard by the dog then the command come that you can infact re-inforce it. Lots of good dvd's on obedience, good time to whistle train as well.

he has learned obeying is optional, take away his options come means come.
Reinforce all obedience commands with the check cord so stay, heel hup sit what ever you use are commands not asking leaving any option of disobedience.
Another rule no multi commands as if you repeat he learns he doesn;t have to obey until you get that tonal quality in voice that means now. Woman do have softer demeanor as a generalization (OK maybe not Mrs Redfrog) so no soft commands and no repeats.
Good news is you discovered it in your yard for most people stop teaching there and assume dog knows command. You have to train command means come in all circumstances whether it is a squirrel, child or another dog distraction. Teach commands train commands in circumstances you can anticipate.
Always sad when owner says he always came in my yard but chased a squirrel on to the street for the first and last time. Teach command, train that command with distractions.
Then they listen not only when it suits them.

Rob

[winger7mm]

Also with gsp's the thing to remember is these suckers are friggen smart. So when giving a command only give it ONCE. If they hear it a bunch of times they will just think "ah I get it, I used to come when they said come once but after I was slow they kept saying it so now Im gonna see how many times I can get them to say it before they force me to come lol dumb humans :D" so if you can only say the command once and enforce the command. Gsp's are tricky as they are really smart dogs and catch on super fast so to stay on top of the intellect is difficult. Trust me you are not alone hahah damn dakota is keeping me on my toes :D

I feel really bad for her as we are getting her spayed on wednesday and the vet says no or very little activity for at least a week and a half, :( shes gonna hate her life so much :( :(

[winger7mm]

And he is starting to fart really bad too. Damn teenagers.

OH GOD you dont even know I almost crashed the truck into a lamp post last week on the way to training she farted and it was so horrible :sick: but when she lets the loud ones rip it makes me laugh so hard LMAO hehehe friggen dog is so adorable

[riden]

But when he doesn't come, I really want to zap him!!!!:thinking-006:

Thanks for the advice guys.

[riden]

Also with gsp's the thing to remember is these suckers are friggen smart. So when giving a command only give it ONCE. If they hear it a bunch of times they will just think "ah I get it, I used to come when they said come once but after I was slow they kept saying it so now Im gonna see how many times I can get them to say it before they force me to come lol dumb humans :D" so if you can only say the command once and enforce the command. Gsp's are tricky as they are really smart dogs and catch on super fast so to stay on top of the intellect is difficult. Trust me you are not alone hahah damn dakota is keeping me on my toes :D

I feel really bad for her as we are getting her spayed on wednesday and the vet says no or very little activity for at least a week and a half, :( shes gonna hate her life so much :( :(

He is damn smart. He kills me when I get a drink from the water cooler. He sits there cocking his head back and forth, you can tell he is thinking "How can I make that work"

HA HA

No appt for Tug, but his nuts aren't long for this world.

[H380]

I hate to say it but I wouldn't even hesitate to e-collar . My hound had the same problem , obedient as a pup but as he got older the obedience went out the window .. Til the day of the e-collar .. Remember to be gentle tho , easy to overdue it and abuse him .I used the vibration as well as the sting .. Vibration did nothing .. Sting ? well lets say it brings out the best in him .

[densa44]

Unless you are sure that you know what you are doing don't start with the collar. You have been teaching him to ignore you when he feels like it so this will be a big change for him, you too.

All obedience training is important, get a DVD and go through all of it, he will come when called at the end, I guarantee it.

[Cowtown guy]

But when he doesn't come, I really want to zap him!!!!:thinking-006:

Thanks for the advice guys.

Proper conditioning is the key to the collar. Just to put it on him and whack him doesn't work. If the dog doesn't come now, zapping him won't help.

Back to basics. Over control, work "come" on a check cord, set him up with distractions when you are in control so you can reinforce the command. This is a good time to rework "heel" as well. Do figure eights on the leash, stop for no reason, spin in a circle... get him to pay attention to you instead of the distractions. Everytime you make him do something he isn't expecting, he learns that you are the one that calls the shots. Although you want him to hunt, he doesn't get to hunt whenever he wants to. It's when you let him. Every time he gets away with something he learns.

Once the proper obediance is taught then you can condition for the collar. The point of the collar is to reinforce the command when out of your reach. Not to punish the dog. The dog also shouldn't understand that if the collar goes on he may get blasted. If you take the collar out, the dog should be happy that he gets to go out to train. Not wondering how long until he gets lit up.

Proper setting on a collar is just enough to get his attention. Look for an ear flick, a blink, maybe the dog lifts his head and looks around. Your not inflicting pain.

[birdslayer]

be careful on how you train your dog , you will get one good try at it to get it right and then to correct it will take a lot of time and effort. My suggestion is to purchase a book that explains how a dog learns and at what ages it can be
taught . At six months a dog will challenge you and your spouse for dominance. It will challenge everyone in the household including yourself and any other pets you have .This also will happen again at about 2 yrs. old , these are frustrating times , but like children it does pass , and with dogs it should only last a couple of weeks. At six months it is at the prime age for you to take it to obedience class , the first time is more for you on how to train the dog than it is for the dog . I have never meet a bad dog , just an owner that did not do the training properly .Go and spend the money on obedience class' and if you need a referral send a pm.My son has a book on how to train a dog , it goes thru all the stages by the day to day growth. It is so accurate , could not have understood a dog without it. I have a e-collar that is used only in the field , would not use one unless it is the last resort for obedience training , field training is another issue.

[Redfrog]

Lots of good advice here.

Cowtown guy covered a lot of what I was going to say.

Sounds like you want to use the collar to punish the dog because he is too far away for you to club him with your stick. Make no mistake, if the dog hasn't been collar conditioned, then it is just a big stick. Now I'm sure you wouldn't take a stick to your dog and in this case you don't need the collar.

If he won't obey at ten feet then you need to get a leash on him and go though through the obedience program. That doesn't mean for a few minutes till he sits etc. That means a couple times a day for a week. This will establish that you are in charge and it will teach the dog what you want it to do.

You can go to a check cord to extend your reach, but usually I've found I don't need to. Of course I always work with labs and they are a little smarter than GSPs.:):)

That pup is the perfect age to get the pecking order sorted out.

[calgarychef]

Have you tried whispering little words of endearment in his ear at the right moment? :love0025:

[nekred]

I always belived that when you buy one dog... get two....

Then when one doesn't listen you shoot it and show number two the results...of not listening!...

Must work how many 2nd wives are much better than the first one?

Kidding!...

In training border collies I was taught a command is just that.. a command.. not a request and must be obeyed like a command.

We always made a distinction between work dogs and pets. Work dogs were kept seperate and used for work and did not get pet at all. They got some praise when they did the extra ordinary not just rgular work, but we also kept them together for their pwn social structure. These dogs just love to work and are happiest when working.

One friend of mine trained his hunting dog like a work dog and would retrieve birds no matter the conditions and would never falter. Another friend had a retriever who was a pet forst and working dog second and we dropped some birds and the dog got the first one and then decided water was too cold and refused to retrive number 2, because the dog had learned that commands were requests and my friend looked at me and said what do I do? I showed him.. dog was in water and told to fetch and was not let out until it had the bird... After that no more issues...for the rest of the day...

If you want a reliable dog then teach it discipline and reliability, commands are not requests. Dog does not come when called I go get it and it is an unpleasant experience for the dog. Reward and discipline have to be balanced to have a balanced dog.

Determination is also a big factor you have to be more stubborn than the animal you are training. Have you ever seena cat trained to lie down, sit, and stay. All it takes is stubbornness and patience.

The best indication of a well trained dog is what the dog does on command without a treat in your hand. I have seen dogs turn from apathetic, disbedient losers into attentive geniuses when the owner has a treat in their hand... which to me is an indication of training failure... the dog has trained owner...

[riden]

Lots of good advice here.

Cowtown guy covered a lot of what I was going to say.

Sounds like you want to use the collar to punish the dog because he is too far away for you to club him with your stick. Make no mistake, if the dog hasn't been collar conditioned, then it is just a big stick. Now I'm sure you wouldn't take a stick to your dog and in this case you don't need the collar.

If he won't obey at ten feet then you need to get a leash on him and go though through the obedience program. That doesn't mean for a few minutes till he sits etc. That means a couple times a day for a week. This will establish that you are in charge and it will teach the dog what you want it to do.

You can go to a check cord to extend your reach, but usually I've found I don't need to. Of course I always work with labs and they are a little smarter than GSPs.:):)

That pup is the perfect age to get the pecking order sorted out.

No, actually when a dog doesn't come to me when I command it to, I want to chase it down, tackle it and throttle it. But since I am now old and fat, I might be able to catch a lab, no hope of catching a GSP.:sHa_sarcasticlol:

I was wondering if, since it well knows the command, if a small shock would be in order.

[riden]

If you want a reliable dog then teach it discipline and reliability, commands are not requests. Dog does not come when called I go get it and it is an unpleasant experience for the dog. Reward and discipline have to be balanced to have a balanced dog.

Determination is also a big factor you have to be more stubborn than the animal you are training. Have you ever seena cat trained to lie down, sit, and stay. All it takes is stubbornness and patience.

The best indication of a well trained dog is what the dog does on command without a treat in your hand. I have seen dogs turn from apathetic, disbedient losers into attentive geniuses when the owner has a treat in their hand... which to me is an indication of training failure... the dog has trained owner...

I hear you, but I have to say, is a GSP ever slippery. If it doesn't want to be caught, you won't catch it. It plays that type of game with my other dogs, and if it played that game with me, I am a big dumb idiot chasing an uncatchable dog. I don't want myself in that situation.

[nekred]

Another thing is I always like to make the disnguishment...

Dog and Owner...

if you treat your dog like your best buddy... he finds commands are requests...

I also believe there are no problem dogs... just problem owners...

My buddy had a greater munsterlander that had phobias... scared of water.. and seperation anxiety to the extreme... this dog had some mental deficiencies it ended sadly but the owner tried to make the dog into something it was not able to be...

It comes down to an objective evalauation of the dog, trying to make a lab into a sheepdog, and a sheepdog into a pointer is not going to work out well in most cases.

I rescued a dog from a trapper who beat her and she was best dog I ever had... She did not like getting pet, she stayed putside always, but what a hunting dog... amazing she could spot game and let me know their approach long before I ever knew and she was always at my side when i was outside, she was an Alsation mixed breed crossed with a coyote. Shehad her foibles such as she only understood French, she growled at certain ethnic groups, love ladies and hated men. She did not like it if I pet her but towards the end all she wanted to do was have her head in my lap but could not touch her...

She became a pet in her retirement and I think about Kamerad all the time. I had a job once to keep squirrells out of a tree orchard (acorns) and she was awesome we would walk through and she would spot a squirrel, make a small growl and all i had to do was look where she was looking and there the squirrel was. After I shot it she would go up to it and bit it and crunch all the bones in it and then drop it. I assumed she was bit once by one and everytime I shot one she would look at me as if to say thak you! I think she let me tag along on squirrell hunts because I had a magic stick to bring squirrells out of trees.

She refused to come into the house and even at 40 below she would go burrow into snow to sleep. She always made a mess in one corner of the yard and that was it. I was very fortunate to have her for 3 years. i don;t know howold she was when I rescued her but what a dog.

Even though I have a soft spot for her memory, she still was a dog and I was her owner... which is greater none can tell both are different roles.


So while I believe in firm discipline I also understand every dog is different and respect has to be a two way street. If I gave a command I expected it to be followed, but I did not give a command that was outside the dogs ability either...

[Sneeze]

I was wondering if, since it well knows the command, if a small shock would be in order.

If I can offer my 2 cents.

Give the dog a fixed amount of time each day for "Obedience". Start with a check cord and hammer him back to you on "Come", "Here" or "Heel". When I say "Hammer"... I mean it. Your dog is not going to like it. When you start, don't even give him a chance to obey the command. The sequence goes
1. Yank hard
2. "Here" or "Heel"
3. Keep yanking
4. Pick his front legs right off the ground with the cord and spin him into the heel position.

He will learn to anticipate your commands and execute them QUICKLY to avoid the pressure. With all the obedience commands teach how to turn the pressure off. For example, with a choke chain, pull it very snug straight up with the leash. Command "Sit". When he sits, release the tension on the choke chain. When he is airing don't give him any commands, just let him air. When its time to go, give him a "here"... run away from him. He will come to you when he see's you running away. Grab him, leash him and repeat the next day. When he understands the concepts and the concept that you must be obeyed, drop the check cord and move to a horse whip. (I don't mean whip your dog for disobeying) I mean use the horse whip to apply pressure... it could be a quick rap on the rump to firm up a slow sit, a rap on the chest to keep him from heeling too far in front, or a rap on the hind quarter to move him into a proper heel position.

You must work through this step before the electric collar. Just blasting the dog with a zapper can go three ways only one of them good. 1. He bolts and learns that bolting turns the power off. You can pick your dog up in the next county's dog pound. 2. He freaks out and lays down and cowers. 3. He comes to you. Basically number 1 & 2 mean your dog is ruined for any future collar work.

If you have some patience when formalizing obedience and teach the dog how to turn the pressure off... he can transition to the collar really well. I would also strongly suggest starting force training as soon as you feel his obedience is strong.

The force training will solidify you as supreme leader of the house and give you a great tool for future training.

[Yéil]

Just a question, are you and your wife using the exact same word/hand motion to call the dog?

Even the slightest alteration in the command can confuse the dog. I try and teach my owners not to use any hand signals -like patting their leg, or snapping their fingers - just use the word "Come". I also suggest not to try to add too many commands in a string - like, "come here", "come here, sit", "come here, sit, down, stay". I've also found some trouble appears when the family members start using different commands from the trainer/single owner. The one thing I've found is when the command, "Come" ends up "c'mere" and the owner can't figure out why the dog isn't responding.

Same goes if you've added any hand signal, finger snapping, clicking sounds, etc since you first taught the dog the "Come" command. The dog just gets confused if not all the family are using the exact same command.

I've also found that in the owner's frustration, over using the command only ends up sounding to the dog like nagging. They will ignore it. Same goes for when the owner uses a harsh voice and the dog associates it with being punished. You want your dog to want to come to you and want to please you, not to be afraid of you and respond out of fear.

Try this:

On a 10-15 foot tether, have your wife hold the dog while you walk to about the halfway point of the tether. Have a highly motivating treat - like cut up hot dogs in your hand. Give the command to "Come" have your wife release the dog. Do not say anything until the dog completes the command. If the dog heads straight to you, reward with the hog dog treat. If the dog strays off course, gently pull the tether towards you until the dog is in front of you. Reward with the treat. Repeat until you have the dog coming straight to you with the entire length of the tether out. Change positions with your wife so the dog learns to come to her as well. Have her use the exact same word as you did.

Do not use any hand signals such as patting your leg etc. Do not use the dog's name - if you do, then make sure you use, "Come, dog's name" every single time you call him). Do not give multiple commands like, "Come, Here" or "Come here and sit".

Reinforce the command in different locations - in the house, the yard, in the field, the dog park etc. You also have to decide if you want the command to "come" to be about having the dog get up from where ever he is to come to you, follow you or move from one place to the next. If you want it for the purposes of recall, then you'll have to find a different command for doing the above.

When you have the dog coming to you at the command and you find the dog doesn't need to be pulled in on the tether, then you can start on the other command for recall while the dog is walking away from you. Again, using the tether, have your wife start to walk the dog away from you. Give the command to return to you. I usually use a different word for recalls like "Home" or use a whistle so that if the dog is out of voice range, I can still command a recall. What you want is to have the dog stop going in the direction that they are heading and return to you. For this, I usually suggest that you do use the dog's name to get their attention and then give the recall command.

Again reinforce the command in different locations.

[aulrich]

OK I am a complete newb so take this with that in mind, so warning I know nothing but what I have read or seen in dvd's

But I read in more than one spot that at this stage you can hide on the pup, in theory they will eventually come find you and when they are almost to you you give them the come command.

In the NAVHDA green book they mention that this sign of independance, indicates that the dog is finally ready for formal training.

I guess that is the problem with with pure positive training, sooner or later they care more about pleasing themself's vs pleasing you.

Unless it is one of those co-dependant leg humping Labs :) :scared0018:

[joshcat]

Go to an o edience class and get some proper help. You and the pup will benefit. Also there is a wildfire Navhda chapter I would get ahold of for proper hunt training. If that is not what you are looking for at least get the green book from Navhda.org. It is a start to finish training aid that is for beginner trainers.

[shayne]

Wow, you guys have pretty much covered it, great to read threads like this and it's great to see so many loving dog owners out there! All great advice and I think the only point I could possibly add is to ensure the dog's hearing is OK. Might sound silly but I have experienced this and seems to be more common today possibly due to the level of inbreeding in some breeds. Quick and easy test is a loud clap with your hands a couple feet from the dog. If you scare the sh!t out oh it, good to go! I too would be cautious with the implementation of an e-collar but just my old school beliefs, master's voice and physical stance (signals) should be all the communicating a dog needs.

Good luck, it does get worse at 2 years!:sign0161:

[riden]

I really appreciate all the advice, and plan to use a lot of it.

When I thought about it, a few things have changed in his life that may have caused it. He isn't running loose as much with the outside dogs because he was attracted to the road, and it is too wet yet to set up an invisible fence. So he can't be in the yard unsupervised now.

Also, now that the snow is off the deck, I don't want him on it. I have gates on the steps, designed to keep the dogs off, now they were keeping him in. He isn't hanging out on thw deck now though, I don't like dogs on teh deck. He likely misses lounging on it.

I am thinking the less time he is spending outdoors now is causing major distractions now for him when he is out.

[aulrich]

One thing I am planning to do, is train the dog to run on our treadmill, since he'll only have an hour or 2 out of the kennel before he goes back in for the day. As I understand it, 15 is the max that the dog will need, to have a good workout

Supposed to be good mental stimulation for the dog as well as a workout. So if you have one available it could help burn off some steam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQWCN57x20

[Redfrog]

If I can offer my 2 cents.

Give the dog a fixed amount of time each day for "Obedience". Start with a check cord and hammer him back to you on "Come", "Here" or "Heel". When I say "Hammer"... I mean it. Your dog is not going to like it. When you start, don't even give him a chance to obey the command.

So everytime you put a collar on the dog you do this? or does he just think you are going to do it? Where does the dog get 'consistency'from?

The sequence goes
1. Yank hard
2. "Here" or "Heel"
3. Keep yanking
4. Pick his front legs right off the ground with the cord and spin him into the heel position.

Does the dog become distracted by not being able to breathe, or does he just push through the panic in a hurry to 'heel'?

He will learn to anticipate your commands and execute them QUICKLY to avoid the pressure. With all the obedience commands teach how to turn the pressure off. For example, with a choke chain, pull it very snug straight up with the leash. Command "Sit". When he sits, release the tension on the choke chain. When he is airing don't give him any commands, just let him air. When its time to go, give him a "here"... run away from him. He will come to you when he see's you running away. Grab him, leash him and repeat the next day. When he understands the concepts and the concept that you must be obeyed, drop the check cord and move to a horse whip. (I don't mean whip your dog for disobeying) I mean use the horse whip to apply pressure... it could be a quick rap on the rump to firm up a slow sit, a rap on the chest to keep him from heeling too far in front, or a rap on the hind quarter to move him into a proper heel position.

You must work through this step before the electric collar. Just blasting the dog with a zapper can go three ways only one of them good. 1. He bolts and learns that bolting turns the power off. You can pick your dog up in the next county's dog pound. 2. He freaks out and lays down and cowers. 3. He comes to you. Basically number 1 & 2 mean your dog is ruined for any future collar work.

Do you have any used e collars for sale?

If you have some patience when formalizing obedience and teach the dog how to turn the pressure off... he can transition to the collar really well. I would also strongly suggest starting force training as soon as you feel his obedience is strong.

The force training will solidify you as supreme leader of the house and give you a great tool for future training.

Whose force training program is this? I've never seen one quite like it? How's your success rate?



Does this really work for you? How many dogs have you used this program on?

[Sneeze]

Whose force training program is this? I've never seen one quite like it? How's your success rate?



Does this really work for you? How many dogs have you used this program on?

Sorry Red, didn't say anything there that is crazy. Didn't say to keep doing that over and over again. I use that to show the dog what I want and then let them show me what they have learned as they start to understand what each command means and how I want it executed.

I didn't describe any force program at all in my post. I talked about the best way I feel to work through a stubborn dog during obedience training.

Acutally I will go further and say that I think your trying to troll bait me for the e-collars thread and I would bet you a bottle of whiskey that in your life that you too have spun a dog into heel with his collar.

I am a pretty green trainer. Never tried to sell the OP that my opinion was gospel.

And no... my e-collar isn't for sale. Now where is that tounge sticking out emoticon?

[Redfrog]

"The force training will solidify you as supreme leader of the house and give you a great tool for future training."

You didn't describe it but you did bring it up.

I drink 40 Creek. I'd be happy to stop by and pick it up from you if you pm your address.:)

The only time I've ever lifted a dog off the ground with a lead was when they were trying to eat me. I have the scars. There is no room in a teaching program for that kind of treatment. Not what a choker was designed for.


you did say don't give the dog a chance to obey the command. You did say hammer him then expect him to figure it out.

So I guess If someone hammered you every time they saw you, you'd figure out what they wanted or would you avoid them at all costs. what is the dog going to do?
You never did say how many dogs you've put through this program.

[Sneeze]

"The force training will solidify you as supreme leader of the house and give you a great tool for future training."

You didn't describe it but you did bring it up.


Your right. I think I said "I would also strongly suggest starting force training as soon as you feel his obedience is strong." Is this something you disagree with?


I drink 40 Creek. I'd be happy to stop by and pick it up from you if you pm your address.:)

The only time I've ever lifted a dog off the ground with a lead was when they were trying to eat me. I have the scars. There is no room in a teaching program for that kind of treatment. Not what a choker was designed for.



I didn't say choker - I used that for my sit example. - But I did say that if you can honestly say you have never spun a dog into heel by a leash attached to a collar I would send you a bottle. So if you can say that in all honesty, PM me your PO and 40 Creek is on its way.


You never did say how many dogs you've put through this program

I have trained three dogs. Each one has gotten a bit better than the last. Still have a huge amount to learn and even more to appreciate. I can respect your opinion if you think what I have said seems harsh. This is the second time you have insinuated that I am abusive towards my animals, in all honesty it kinda gets under my skin. I probably won't loose sleep tonight over it however.

I would love to demonstrate to you what I described above. Its not some cruel form of torture where I let the dog run to the end of a 50ft lead and then knock him on his back and drag him to me. A hard tug on the lead, a sharp "here" command, and continuous pressure on the lead until the dog is in front of me. While he is learning I pick the front legs of the dog off the ground just as he reaches me and pivot his body around mine and plop him into a heel. As the Dog learns, the force of the tug shrinks, the timing changes to a "here" "tug" here", and as he comes in I move from the pressure into the heel to just guiding him into heel with the lead. On the dog I am working with now I used the horsewhip to finish this off where as he comes in I command "heel" and rap him on the rump to encourage a quick spin and use the whip to block him from trying to come in on the wrong side and move around me.

If this is something thats abusive and horrible to you, I am sorry you feel that way. I would love to shadow you on one of your training sessions to get an idea how you guide your dog through obedience steps. I am sure I would learn something and just maybe I could bring something to the table too.

[Redfrog]

Thanks for the explanation. I asked because your methods sound strange to me. We all can learn and if we don't question we don't learn.

You seem a little defensive. I hope this isn't going to affect the whiskey delivery.:) and no I've never spun a dog into heel with a collar and lead.

I'm just try to get an understanding of your training program. I'm glad that you are getting better with more experience and knowledge.

i'd like to see how you train/work a dog. What part of Alberta is home? Mabe we can hook up and train for a day.

[Sneeze]

You seem a little defensive. I hope this isn't going to affect the whiskey delivery.:) and no I've never spun a dog into heel with a collar and lead.



Just my abrasive personality. I'll honor and make a mental note to keep my mouth shut (never works). Shoot me a PM.

I am in the Deep South. Read a few old field trial threads and it seemed you were doing the laps. If your doing it this year I will run into you in Red Deer or Lethbridge in June. Its going to be my first year so trying to stay close to home to minimize the amount of people that want to lynch or laugh at me when my dog breaks from the passenger seat of the truck and spoils the run of an Open Class dog nailing his third mark.