Dog Training

[Jimmyjjj]

I noticed another thread here where someone was looking to gift some training and I didn't want to hijack their thread so I started this one.

I searched the forum but couldn't find anything recent.

My plan is to get a GSP or Chocolate Lab at the end of May, and this will be my first time training a puppy. I plan is to use the dog for upland game birds and waterfowl.

Does anyone know of any DVD training for retrievers (and owners) that does not use E-Collars? What age should I try to get the puppy at? How soon should I start training?

I am pretty sure I want to get the puppy from a breeder, although I haven't picked one yet, I have heard enough stories of how much better the dogs are.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Pixel Shooter]

I thought their only was one color of lab :p
All kidding aside. You can almost use any training program and remove the collar conditioning and understand you will be using a long check cord in lieu of a collar. Key is always being able to be able to reinforce a command. Training without a e-collar and really the program is about positive gundog training is what many call the british way. Robert Milner is the name that comes to mind from Duckhill Kennels and has written a ton over the past 40 yrs around British training method, positive gundog training, no e-collar. His positive gundog training is simply the application of BF Skinners principles of operant conditioning to retriever training with the focus on two basic elements: 1. Dogs do what pays, 2. Dogs quit doing what doesn't pay.
Underlying principles are that the trainer recognizes what constitutes a payment and, that the trainer controls the pay.

Personally, for newbies I would recommend Evan Graham DVD's once you start formalizing training which typically starts at 6 months of age and permanent teeth are in place. Simple reason is Evan goes goes much more in detail, doesnt always work with the perfect pup so gives you the opportunity to see what you may encounter and how to overcome obstacles or challenges. The problem with most DVD's is more geared to amateur than it is for newbies and key to training is understanding dog psychy, understand how they think, how to properly train a command then only when the command is learned, the timeliness of corrections. Lardy is the king when it comes to retriever training, but his DVD's for someone new can be hard to follow and understand he is training the top dogs which will be frustrating for most owners whose dogs who will fail in comparison in desire and breeding. read into that as you like. Lardy's training program is exceptional and anyone playing the doggie games follows his training to a letter and it works!!

Best results start when training and building instincts and confidence in a pup. I personally have always taken a dog at 7 weeks to start bonding but 8 weeks old is typically the age that reputable breeders let pups go. You can really set a pup on the right path early in life, starting with house manners, crating a pup and puppy ediquette. Their is a DVD that goes the first 90 days of a puppies life starting at 8 weeks to start building behaviours, encourage and confident puppies that I highly recommend, Bill Hillmans puppy DVD. Get your pup a great start which will make everything else that much easier.

I have been pretty vocal around breeders, do your homework, ask the right questions and you wont be disappointed. I think I did a thread on what questions one may ask, fairly detailed, there if you wish to peruse.

Good luck, nothing better than puppy breath :)

[Chomack]

I got a 7 week old Black Lab puppy in November from Prairiestorm in Saskatoon and have been really happy with our choice. He has been out 2 times on birds and I have been impressed with his nose (5 months and 7 months). As soon as we got him we trained him to ring a bell to go outside to pee. Each time you go out, just lift his paw and tap the bell. Soon he will be ringing it when he has to go. We also said "Go Pee" when he was actually going, so now he pees on command which is great for when you are heading out and want to put him in his kennel or jump in the truck.
We bought a few puppy books and a few Labrador retriever books and follow most of what we read. We crate trained him right off the bat which wasn't easy at the start but had to be done.

I'm sure others have a lot of good information but ringing the bell to pee was about the best thing we ever did when he was a puppy.

[Jadham]

I like George Hickox DVDs. There are DVD sets for both pointers and retreivers/flushers

http://georgehickox.com/about_george_hickox_dvd.html

[aulrich]

I pick up my first dog tomorrow so know that I am speaking from in-experience

I have been beg, borrowing and torrenting everything I can get my hands on at this point they all, the ones I have seen use the e-collor, in one they went through the process of setting the stimulation level (perfect start/perfexct finish). All the guy was looking for was the slightest twitch no yelp just an indication that the dog felt something.

It's not like it's 50,00 volts of compliance, heck most of the new ones have a vibrate mode. Just like raising kids I don't belive in 100% positive re-enforcment, some negative needs to come in at some point. And when you hear of needing to time a correction within 1.3 seconds so the dog can conect the action to correction.

I look at it this way your dog is 400 yards away and gets into hot chase of deer, I can't see waving a milkbone at him, will make him stop and recall.

An example of vibrate mode on a e-collar

http://youtu.be/fQVvPDE2y6w

[mark-edmonton]

I liked parkland kennels. They train that stuff specifically

[densa44]

A long time ago a man named james Free ( a lab guy) wrote a book that said 49 days was as long as a puppy should stay with the litter mates. It seemed reasonable and that standard has stuck.

Start with obedience first, and lots of exercise, they can try the water soon, better if it is warm because you are going in too!

Have fun, there is nothing like your first dog.

One point though, a mistake we all have made, on dog one, you are young, so is the dog, DON'T over do it. Every body does but it bores the dog, keep the training fun! For both of you.

[Jimmyjjj]

Thanks so much for all the info!

I just purchased "Training a Retriever Puppy with Bill Hillmann"... exciting!

I looked at Robert Milner and only found one book on their site and Evan Graham's DVD's are a little more expensive than Mike Lardy's package... I think I will pick up the Mike Lardy package when I get permission from the wife!

Thanks again!

[32-40win]

I just spent the last 3 hrs reading on Milner's site , I like his attitude, and having had some dogs, it makes a lot of sense to me, as I can visualize what he is talking about.

[wwbirds]

Just as in woodworking the tools only matter in the hands of a master. Big tools make the job easier in the right hands and small tools make smaller mistakes.

I can't see anyone getting into big trouble with a leash, choker and check cord but have seen big mistakes with big tools like electric collars.


More dogs are ruined with electric collars by inexperienced trainers than are trained. if you are not sure about training procedures stay away from e collars unless you want big mistakes that wil take a pro 3-6 months at $800. a month to fix.