tundra- c&r on fish

[bearbait]

tundra.....i as well c&r.almost everything i catch but why u so hard on everyone else??if they choose to keep a fish of allowable size so be it....just becouse its your thoughts that all big ones be released dosent mean we all have to....i too have some opinions about how things should be done but i keep those to myself, who are we to judge people loving the outdoors we are here to support them...
rob

[TundraBuck]

tundra.....i as well c&r.almost everything i catch but why u so hard on everyone else??if they choose to keep a fish of allowable size so be it....just becouse its your thoughts that all big ones be released dosent mean we all have to....i too have some opinions about how things should be done but i keep those to myself, who are we to judge people loving the outdoors we are here to support them...
rob

But we are also here to conserve for future generations bud.

[Versatile]

Then you should stop preaching to the public and go to a higher source. Do the research, present the facts in a professional way and maybe you might get the regs changed.

[Walleyes]

tundra.....i as well c&r.almost everything i catch but why u so hard on everyone else??if they choose to keep a fish of allowable size so be it....just becouse its your thoughts that all big ones be released dosent mean we all have to....i too have some opinions about how things should be done but i keep those to myself, who are we to judge people loving the outdoors we are here to support them...
rob
X2 thx bear...

[TundraBuck]

Then you should stop preaching to the public and go to a higher source. Do the research, present the facts in a professional way and maybe you might get the regs changed.

Ryan, one person is going to make a difference.

[Versatile]

Not if you think like that it isnt. But your probably not the only one.

[TundraBuck]

Not if you think like that it isnt. But your probably not the only one.

I have written Ted Morton twice with no response. As well I have spoken with some fisheries biologists about the matter. Refer to lethalconnection's post about fishing regs and it pretty well sums up what we should do in terms of conservation.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Phone his office Ill get the number from my mother as she works for the government.Id go further up my family knows the stelmach family quite well , send a letter to Eddys office too , he will kick morton in the arse to get him in gear .

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/, Ill post the phone number to this . once we get it . My mother says she gotta look on there internal database , and will get me the number and name of the deputy minister. And phone number of there office .

[TundraBuck]

Phone his office Ill get the number from my mother as she works for the government.

I will but I expect to talk to some secretary, leave a message, and never have it returned like the way it works with most gov't agencies.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Legislature Offices

Legislature Office
TBA


Phone: N/A
Fax: N/A
Constituency Offices

Constituency Office
P.O. Box 69
2115 - 2nd Avenue
Fort Macleod, AB
Canada T0L 0Z0
Phone: (403) 553-2400
Toll-Free: 1-800-565-0962
Fax: (403) 553-2133

AND ALSO THE PERSON EMAIL OF TED MORTON
TED.MORTON@GOV.AB.CA
AND MR STELMACH
ED.STELMAC@GOV.AB.CA
I HOPE THIS INFO HELPS AND MY MOTHER SAYS ITS A RULE THERE SAPOST TO RESPOND TO YOUR LETTER, SO ID GO TO STELMACH IF MORTON ISNT RESPONDING TO YOU .

[FishHound]

I will but I expect to talk to some secretary, leave a message, and never have it returned like the way it works with most gov't agencies.


you sound like you've given up already ----- at least in this e-mail

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

exactly and to his personal e mail box not this sexitary or whoever

[Lethalconnection]

Hey Tundra how bout you SHUT UP .... ha ha no just playing you know i love you.......but seriously :lol:

[KyleM]

Someone needs to say something......

Like I said, just because its legal dosnt mean we should just
keep on doing it.

If you guys could only see the end result.
Things are extremely backwards here.

[mudkid]

Great Info BIGBADJOHN

[mudkid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI17VTOj5sA

[mudkid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tEflbQAPDg

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

hahahaha gotta love insider information.

[TundraBuck]

Someone needs to say something......

Like I said, just because its legal dosnt mean we should just
keep on doing it.

If you guys could only see the end result.
Things are extremely backwards here.

You're right KyleM, this is going to happen soon. And everyone will be complaining to the government that they should have done something about it, well STEP UP NOW and it won't happen. Here's to Alberta's Fisheries if we don't do something about it soon. :wave:

[Deano]

I know I have said some things over the past week against Tundra, but I feel his intentions are definitely good. The problem is in the delivery, he hangs his curveball :confused: . When you are dealing with peolple, especially younger ones, it is best to say as many positive things as possible. That way when it comes time to say something negative they will listen to you. If you start communicating with someone and start with negativity the will probably tell you to go *^%&* yourself.
Biggest problem with open forums is people seem to be willing to express their anger. But can't find the time to tell someone "goodjob". That is why there is one board that is so much better than the others.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

well write up a petition and get guys and gals to sing it and ill come stand out side the legislature with fishing rod in hand and petition our right for change.

[Chris K]

I do not agree with the fisheries management on many waterbodies in the province, and from fishing in other provinces I see many other approaches working there that may work just as well here. I don't want to get into the controversy, but buying your fishing license give you the right to keep fish if you want, and not to if you so wish. I fish as much as anybody on this board, and I hardly keep any, but if others want to who am I to judge how they enjoy the resource? Chris K

[BrainTan]

Tundra buck, the people you have written emails to are hoping you are just venting, don't take no for an answer and you may find your voice means something!

[wildman]

TUNDRA,
you are being hypocritical in several ways;
first, with a handle like "tundrabuck" i'm betting you blast holes into many, many deers per year.
so it's ok to off mamals but not fish???
second, if you were really worried about the fish stocks, you wouldn't fish at all ever!!!
it's impossible to fish for a day without stressing and injuring a few fish.
all hooks injure fish. be it a cut in the lip or a damaged gill, or a mortally swallowed hook and every time you fight a fish, you stress and exhaust it.
sounds like you either have to quit fishing and hunting completely or quit preaching to law abiding people who are doing the same thing you are...killing wildlife for consumption.
my $0.02. gw

[bearbait]

wow...tundra not pokin at you but was stating my opinion tryin not to steal other threads...i agree to some extent with you as well...but.....i like to keep the odd big one as well...im not always going to let a 6 pound rainbow go or a 10 pound walleye, not to mention a 30 pound jack.....you se what im getting at...lets just leave our best comments when we are lucky enough to see others pics....if you want change alberta fish and game ass. is great way to make a differance...we got the age to hunt with rifle lowered....finaly....
rob

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Im with ya there a 110 %

[packhuntr]

Tundra, Kylem, i hear ya......Before coming onto this forum a couple years ago, i tried hard to explain these very things to my friends and acquaintences. We have to push the envelope on this one, even if its just how we do things when we are in the outdoors. It angers me as well that everything ive done in the last 5 years, for example, practicing C&R, not enjoying a winter pike in the pan etc, can be trumped in one day by a group of half a dozen clowns out to "fill the larder". Ive witnessed guys at late ice slamming big hens, and the first thing you will see come out is the club.....Its sad. They dont realize, afew guys who really know what they are doing, can LEGALLY knock one of our lakes on its azz for years by removing these big fish. These are predators, they are supposed to have the lowest numbers in the system, but by over harvest of big ones, weve stunted most pike fisheries, and flooded them with small fish. Our lakes will never produce the fish of the past. My only prayr when i finished getting an azz chewing like you are getting now, is that these are all old fisherman posting, and hopefully these attitudes are gonna die with them soon.

keep a strain on er.

[wildman]

kinda like you guys shallowing the whitetail gene pool by killing all the biggest bucks hey????

[packhuntr]

Nope, Totally different thing all together. These big fish are needed to regulate the entire fishery. They maintain a balance and on a C&R trophy pike fishery, you have a healthy balance. These big fish will keep their own in check including everything else. No question about the fact that they are valuable as spawners. The big w/t your talking about arent spreading any genes they didnt spread when they were breeding as pups still wet behind the ears. Besides, when those guys get that big, for the most part, their role in that department is pretty much over. They are getting their azzes kicked by 5.5 year olds in their prime. Your comparing apples to oranges here.....These fisheries are very vulnerable. Its high time afew people started to at least acknowledge that fact.

keep a strain on er.

[KyleM]

Thanks packhuntr.
Iam shocked at how many people share the same views, its a good thing although Iam also shocked at how few will speak up when the time comes.

I cant believe you guys would compare deer to fish.:scared:

[Lethalconnection]

I cant believe you guys would compare deer to fish.:scared:

Im with you 100% when people compare fish to deer i just shake my head and wonder what the heck they are thinkin. :rolleye2:

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Well I posted the info , now contact them people if Ted morton doesnt reply let Ed stelmach know as its government rule for him to respond .

[packhuntr]

BIGBADJOHN, is that nessesarily the answer????? If we need a bunch more laws to protect our beloved resources from ourselves, the very ones that claim to love it so much, and the very ones that are always chiming up about how we have to pass the outdoors to the next generation, then she sure doesnt say much of the ideals of the ones spouting off about passing more laws...... It starts with here, us and now. Im not waiting for someone to pass law before i get it straight in my head and try to make a difference. What of it????

keep a strain on er.

[KyleM]

So looks like Im not the only one ducking work right now? :lol:

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I sapose so

[pencapchew]

so what biologist told you guys this info about big pike? and why are there still big pike? not long ago you where allowed 10 as a limit, show me some studies on this and i would belive you more, rather then thinking your just some guy that "thinks" he knows what is best.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Oh god here we go agian another argument , Yes I want our waters to be protected for upcoming generations of people who wanna catch the big fish we have now in days.

[KyleM]

I dont have time to scan the whack of research that has been done....maybe in a couple hours when I get home from work.
They are on the net, go look for yourself. This is not something thats
up in the air, its fact. The only ones who dispute it are the ones who
dont wish to change their ways.

[TundraBuck]

Great Info BIGBADJOHN

X2 I'll be sending some more letters and emails. Great thing you are on here bud!

I know I have said some things over the past week against Tundra, but I feel his intentions are definitely good. The problem is in the delivery, he hangs his curveball :confused: . When you are dealing with peolple, especially younger ones, it is best to say as many positive things as possible. That way when it comes time to say something negative they will listen to you. If you start communicating with someone and start with negativity the will probably tell you to go *^%&* yourself.
Biggest problem with open forums is people seem to be willing to express their anger. But can't find the time to tell someone "goodjob". That is why there is one board that is so much better than the others.

Hey thanks Deano. I know nothing angers me more but I am trying to congragulate people on the catch at least.

ChrisK, thanks for the info. Glad we have another person concerned about the conservation of our fisheries.

Tundra buck, the people you have written emails to are hoping you are just venting, don't take no for an answer and you may find your voice means something!


Thanks Brain, it's just getting a little frustrating that's all. I will keep trying.

TUNDRA,
you are being hypocritical in several ways;
first, with a handle like "tundrabuck" i'm betting you blast holes into many, many deers per year.
so it's ok to off mamals but not fish???
second, if you were really worried about the fish stocks, you wouldn't fish at all ever!!!
it's impossible to fish for a day without stressing and injuring a few fish.
all hooks injure fish. be it a cut in the lip or a damaged gill, or a mortally swallowed hook and every time you fight a fish, you stress and exhaust it.
sounds like you either have to quit fishing and hunting completely or quit preaching to law abiding people who are doing the same thing you are...killing wildlife for consumption.
my $0.02. gw

I don't see how I'm being hypocritical. Like I and others have said before, you can't compare hunting to fishing, you can say what you want but your "$0.02" doesn't matter to me on that one. And wow, talk about prejudice? Just because of my handle. Well if you even had a clue you'd know that I got my handle because I used to work in the Tundra on petroleum engineering projects, and we would see a lot of bucks. No we didn't slaughter them like you think, do you even hunt? My sons and I harvest few deer, but this is irrelevant to the tasks at hand right now. I never said fishing isn't going to stress or injure fish, that's common sense. I'm not out there killing wildlife for consumption, thats what we call SUSTENANCE hunters and fishers. You need to partake in these activities to survive... I hunt and fish for the sport. I do hunt for the meat as well but I dont have to go out "killing wildlife" as you so abruptly put it to survive. When I'm hunting, I love to be out in nature and enjoying life's simle pleasures. Same idea with fishing, I love watching people have the thrill of catching a fish and, well at least my take on it is, there is something wrong with keeping some fish. Note the SOME. I have no problem with that, I even keep fish sometimes, but in lakes where spawning occurs, I keep fish that don't affect that, ie: right around legal-sized pike, and even then I don't keep many. I'm not preaching to anyone. Why don't you quit hunting and fishing wildman? Because you enjoy it? Riiiiight. Same as I. Going shopping and to movies just doesn't cater to me, I'm sorry.

wow...tundra not pokin at you but was stating my opinion tryin not to steal other threads...i agree to some extent with you as well...but.....i like to keep the odd big one as well...im not always going to let a 6 pound rainbow go or a 10 pound walleye, not to mention a 30 pound jack.....you se what im getting at...lets just leave our best comments when we are lucky enough to see others pics....if you want change alberta fish and game ass. is great way to make a differance...we got the age to hunt with rifle lowered....finaly....
rob

Yah I did kind of hijack a thread didn't I? Like I said there's nothing wrong with keeping some fish just be careful about what age and maturity they are if there is even a spawn occurring in that such water.

packuntr thanks for everythng you've provided so far and educating the uneducated wildman over there on hunting genetics. Compare a large land mass of genetics to a small water mass of genetics.

Pencapchew, Kyle has research he can give to you. Instead of challenging everything without knowing the facts, you're also just some guy who thinks he knows best, and especially you, quite a bit of arrogance is being displayed on your part.

Again thanks guys, deer and fish populations can't be compared, sure argue it but they can't, it is biologically impossible.

[TundraBuck]

..

[KyleM]

Iam working on writing up a little something here....
Might be awhile!

[Lethalconnection]

Iam working on writing up a little something here....
Might be awhile!

Is it gunna have pages i can flip through?:lol:

[packhuntr]

Oh man, dont make it too long....Sounding out the words sucks. Mabey put in some pictures:lol:

[thumper]

IMO the best way to get hunting/fishing regulations changed is to join a hunting/fishing club that's affiliated with the Alberta Fish & Game Association (most are - check out the AFGA web site to find one close to you).

Attend the local club meetings and raise the issue there. If you can get them on board, then the club executive will make the recommendation to the AFGA executive, the membership votes on it and if accepted to move forward, the AFGA will in turn make the recommendation to the government at their annual meeting.

If the government sees that a majority of the largest sportsman group in Alberta is behind a resolution - they are apt to act upon it. Particularly if it doesn't affect other 'stakeholders' (such as landowners or cattlemen).

That's exactly how most of the fish & wildlife regulations get changed in this province - NOT by individual letter writing campaigns. (Well, that and being cosy with the premier and his ministers)

I realize that this represents a lot of time and effort, particularly for you impatient 'younger fellas', but that's how to make democracy work for you.

[Gordoats26]

TUNDRA,
you are being hypocritical in several ways;
first, with a handle like "tundrabuck" i'm betting you blast holes into many, many deers per year.
so it's ok to off mamals but not fish???
second, if you were really worried about the fish stocks, you wouldn't fish at all ever!!!
it's impossible to fish for a day without stressing and injuring a few fish.
all hooks injure fish. be it a cut in the lip or a damaged gill, or a mortally swallowed hook and every time you fight a fish, you stress and exhaust it.
sounds like you either have to quit fishing and hunting completely or quit preaching to law abiding people who are doing the same thing you are...killing wildlife for consumption.
my $0.02. gw

I dont belive he its keeping the odd fish that is the problem its keeping the big spawners that is the problem. You cant compair Deer Conservation to Fish conservation i belive it is worse for the deer heard to kill the does then the big bucks. with fish the big ones you catch are usualy the big females it seems alot of people take the fisheries for granted to me?

[Canuck44]

In Barry Mitchells "Alberta Trout Highway" it says that 6-10" (3-5year old) trout produce 92% of the eggs. For this reason I don't feel at all bad about keeping a nice 16" cutty for the pan, they are only responsible for a very small percentage of the eggs and if I don't eat it, it is quite likely that it will die of old age.

I know that this thread seems to be about pike but are pike similar to trout where the small fish are responsible for the majority of the egg production? Does anyone have any published info on this? If so please provide info on it as I would be interested in reading it.

[TundraBuck]

In Barry Mitchells "Alberta Trout Highway" it says that 6-10" (3-5year old) trout produce 92% of the eggs. For this reason I don't feel at all bad about keeping a nice 16" cutty for the pan, they are only responsible for a very small percentage of the eggs and if I don't eat it, it is quite likely that it will die of old age.

I know that this thread seems to be about pike but are pike similar to trout where the small fish are responsible for the majority of the egg production? Does anyone have any published info on this? If so please provide info on it as I would be interested in reading it.

Canuck, that'll vary between waters and species. Trout are quite different. The way I see it, if it's a stocked put and take lake fine, that's what the fish are there for. I wouldn't kill cuthroats for two reasons,

the first being that the streams I fish that boast them don't allow you to do such, and the second thing is they are pretty wild, i know they have been stocked in some areas but they are wild native fish. I'm not so sure 6 - 10" rainbows are the egg-producers, but that is more than likely the case with cutthroats on particular waters.

[Canuck44]

Canuck, that'll vary between waters and species. Trout are quite different. The way I see it, if it's a stocked put and take lake fine, that's what the fish are there for. I wouldn't kill cuthroats for two reasons,

the first being that the streams I fish that boast them don't allow you to do such, and the second thing is they are pretty wild, i know they have been stocked in some areas but they are wild native fish. I'm not so sure 6 - 10" rainbows are the egg-producers, but that is more than likely the case with cutthroats on particular waters.

If you haven't read this book I would reccomend it, it is a good read and while I would not say it is the gospel it is the best all around book I have read on trout fishing in Alberta.

I don't mind keeping the occasional cutty as hybridization is what is threatening them here not overfishing.

But back to Pike, any literature on this subject?

[KyleM]

Heres a little something that I found interesting.
Im gathering a bunch of info and gonna post it in a
seperate thread..


http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/science/story.html?id=ba76d7a8-822a-459b-bc65-0eeadef91bb3&k=71820

[walley]

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

[Bogman10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI17VTOj5sA

My buddies just got back from Cuba, they didn't fish... boy did they miss out!

[buckmaster]

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

thank you walley!!!

[Bogman10]

Tundra, Kylem, i hear ya......Before coming onto this forum a couple years ago, i tried hard to explain these very things to my friends and acquaintences. We have to push the envelope on this one, even if its just how we do things when we are in the outdoors. It angers me as well that everything ive done in the last 5 years, for example, practicing C&R, not enjoying a winter pike in the pan etc, can be trumped in one day by a group of half a dozen clowns out to "fill the larder". Ive witnessed guys at late ice slamming big hens, and the first thing you will see come out is the club.....Its sad. They dont realize, afew guys who really know what they are doing, can LEGALLY knock one of our lakes on its azz for years by removing these big fish. These are predators, they are supposed to have the lowest numbers in the system, but by over harvest of big ones, weve stunted most pike fisheries, and flooded them with small fish. Our lakes will never produce the fish of the past. My only prayr when i finished getting an azz chewing like you are getting now, is that these are all old fisherman posting, and hopefully these attitudes are gonna die with them soon.

keep a strain on er.

I agree with you 100% , besides put the big ones back gives you a chance to catch them again! I will sign any petition that limits you to only medium sized fish and keeping the big breeders in the water. Med ones taste better!

[Bogman10]

Oh man, dont make it too long....Sounding out the words sucks. Mabey put in some pictures:lol:

that was funny!!!lol

[FisherPotch]

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread to much by bringing another fish species into perspective. But how come there wasn't so much bit**n and mudslinging a few weeks back when fellows like my self or lethal are keeping good hauls of tasty burbots???????? It doesn't mean that we are against maintaining our fisheries.

Pike are fun to catch when they are big but they arn't fun to eat when there huge and that makes the scenario different. Having a good pic or replica made up is a good way to go about it and i'd even say the most ethical way. So Kudos to the C&R guys. There is no doubt in my mind that C&R is beter for the fisheries. But as long as guys are within the law your limited to trying to change the law. Or trying to rub good habits off on the fellows around. Good on ya for trying to persway people away from the "the dark side" over run by fish killing "storm troopers"!! But if i can get my hand on a 10 lb + Walleye from waters where i can legally keep them "I am your father"!!

I catch and release eye's likley in the four didget range every year. Likely keep between 6 and 10 eye's a year. SO SHOOT ME!!!!!!

All i'm saying is that if your going to get all uptight about it maybe the focus should be directed to all species and not biased towards pike or walleye. Burbot may be a 10 limit now but give it time and that could easily change into a low limit or a minimum size sorta scenario.

I feel that you boys preaching that the big hens are the key spawners are fully correct when it comes down to it especially for the pike. I'd agree that a slot size may be beter for some of our lakes. We realy just need to keep in mind that these people are trying to do a good job of maintaining our fisheries and it isn't an easy job. They are also underfunded at best. The best we can do is utilize contacts that BIGBADJOHN has provided or be highly involved in fish and game.

I think tundra has very good intensions with what he is saying and some of us just need to keep in mind that it is often hard to develop tone when posting. He's not telling us what we have to do, he's just trying to influence us for the beter with his ethics. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though. It's up to you weather you listen to someone else's. I think we can all learn from eachother and listening to others opinions or experiences is the only way to learn. Just my 2 cents.

[Chris K]

Our fisheries management forces people to fish certain lakes if they want to retain walleye. This concentrates hordes of people at lakes they can keep fish, and the populations and year classes take a beating. The province manages for quantity not quality, and for catch rates...not quality of catch. Honestly, I can't believe people that think Lesser Slave is an awesome fishery. It pales in comparison to what it once was, and the regulations have destroyed year classes big fish in very short periods of time. The regulations also lead to decimation of baitfish in many of these lakes, and the quality of other fish goes down as the biomass of large fish goes up and eats itself out of house and home and you get lots of skinny fish that bite like crazy, and that is considered good fishing? How many larger lakes in the province really have quality perch fisheries? Or how many lakes have healthy populations (and contain larger fish, and you have the REAL possability of catching 12" perch, or a 25 pound pike, and a 10 pound walleye, or a 3 pound whitefish) of perch, whitefish, pike and walleye? I can think of quite a few elsewhere, but not many in Alberta, and these lakes I can think of will be in serious trouble in years to come as the current mamagement practices turn "quality fishing" lakes into good "quality opportunity" lakes. People pressure these lakes so hard as they have the best angling opportunities as others decline and become not as good as they once were, and the cycle repeats itself until we have more fish in every lake than we know what to do with. Then someday each lake is overrun with skinny walleye and pike and not a decent perch to be caught. Take Lac La Nonne for example...or Lac Ste Anne...and these are lakes we can not retain walleyes on. The biomass on these lakes can only support so much growth, and when they keep spawning and successfully reproducing without any predators (or humans removing fish) they eat themselves out of house and home, and don't get really big either. At South Buck a three pound walleye is a very big one, and it's rare to catch a walleye over 21.5 inches. They get to the legal size, and they are kept immediately if caught. Yes there you can only keep one per day, but posession is three so at the end of a long weekend, people all kept three walleyes each, and the lake took a pounding. I fish as much as anyone in the summer, and I go to other provinces a lot because of the angling opportunites and quality of fishing. There are some very effective ways to manage fisheries that could be implemented here...but convincing the powers that be that there are better ways is a very difficult task. Chris K

[FisherPotch]

Most certainly a lot of knowlege behind your statements Chris. Our lakes need to be managed on more of an individual basis with quality in mind because so many lakes contain quantity of stunted fish. Personaly I think that they are way too underfunded to put bioligists on every fishery but they could do a beter job if they thought like yourself or many others on the board.

We could likely learn from other provinces to.

I also think that too much time and money is focused on too few lakes also. Prime example Pigeon, damn near the only lake they pay any attention too.

C&R is most certainly a part of our future if we want to build quality.

Hard province to manage with so many anglers focused on so few lakes. I think the fish stalking program (also underfunded) should put some time and money into fish other than bows too. Stock a lake with just perch or eyes with tones of food for them to eat and that may take some attention and pressure off a few other lakes.

[Mudder Man]

Check out this Bad Girl i caught at Gull Lake this past Hardwater season. Was a great catch and a even better release. She is off to make 1,000s more for us to catch.

Mudder

[SNAPFisher]

Holy carp mudder!! That is a hen alright. What a fatty! Congrats on that great catch.

[Big Red 250]

Here in Mb, our fishery's have implented a lot of length regulations that have greatly improved our fishery. We have minimum length to be kept on some waterbody's, maximum length on other's. Slot limits on alot of lakes. Lowered limits on different lakes. Sure can't go fishing without a reg book on you and a tape measure. I, myself release a lot of fish, but I do like a feed of walleye or perch once in awhile.

[TundraBuck]

I can't believe that a person who is doing nothing illegal by keeping a fish or two for whatever reason (either for the meat or a mount-a fish of a lifetime), gets crucified on this and other message boards. These people shouldn't have to get raked over the coals for this.

If you guys who are whining about keeping these fish don't want to keep any, good for you. I never kept any fish last year but I don't criticize people who do. If you want to do something constructive why don't you guys put pressure on the government to stop commercial netting. I have seen the 20-35 pounders come into a buddy's butcher shop from the commercial fishermen. Sportsfishermen don't even come close to the carnage on our fisheries that commercial netters do. Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!

Like Fisherpotch has been saying, nothing wrong with keeping fish as long as it's regulated and you aren't keeping fish that will affect the spawn. You give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself, this is the point of a message board.

[TundraBuck]

Check out this Bad Girl i caught at Gull Lake this past Hardwater season. Was a great catch and a even better release. She is off to make 1,000s more for us to catch.

Mudder

Awesome job Mudder! It would be hard for a lot of guys to put that one back but you are a true outdoorsman!!! :)

[wildman]

quote;
"Give it a rest and keep your thoughts to yourself!"
are you kidding me!!!!!!!!! this whole thread was started because someone, ahem, tundrabuck, wouldn't stop preaching and whining!!!!!! now you have the audacity to tell someone else to give it a rest???
quote;
"My sons and I harvest few deer"
"I do hunt for the meat as well"
sooooo, when YOU kill wildlife it's a sacred tradition with your kids but when others do it's an unspeakable crime???
quote;
"you can't compare hunting to fishing"
of couse you can. it's exactly the same.
you're upset people are taking spawners...what do you call the huge buck with the massive rack in the prime of it's health??? you think it might have bred again if you didn't kill it??? NO DIFFERENCE. You think a younger buck will take the place of one you kill. How is fish any different? How can you prove that an old 30lb fish spawns as well as a mid-aged 15lb fish? I don't know any grannies having babies.

Dude I'm sure we are all on the same side here. We all want to sustain the resources for the future. Obviously many people also enjoy a meal or two of fresh game. YOURSELF included. There is no difference killing a health, brood stock mammal or a healthy brood stock fish. I personally don't ever keep big pike or eyes as they don't even taste good. Everyone's got a right to do as they wish within the law though. YOU can't judge others when you do the same yourself.
quote;
"tundra.....i as well c&r.almost everything i catch but why u so hard on everyone else??if they choose to keep a fish of allowable size so be it....just becouse its your thoughts that all big ones be released dosent mean we all have to....i too have some opinions about how things should be done but i keep those to myself, who are we to judge people loving the outdoors we are here to support them...
rob"
as ROB originally said, we all have our opinions. if you feel this strongly about yours, gather your case and do something about changing the regs. Everyone here abides by the rules. YOU legally kill and eat wildlife and so do the people you constantly scold.

[nekred]

You know all this ****ng and moaning about what is the right way is what will end up affecting all of our futures.

Some people like to catch and keep some like to catch and release.

The fisheries are managed. If the stocks are good keeping the fish is not causing any harm.

instead of causing grief for legal anglers how about we focus on the illegal anglers!....You know the ones that catch and keep when the rules call for catch and release, those who catch over their limit, those who fish with bait in non-bait areas etc.

these are the ones that do the most harm. many people here like to get on their high horse, or behind a pulpit.... If I had the one big pike a year I legally keep out on the ice and someone come up to me preaching, they would get an earful.

How can we unite as sportsman against the poachers and anti-hunters if we keep cutting each other to bits for what amounts to differences in perceptions and opinions!... Just my two bits!

[wildman]

Amen Nekred!!!!!!!!!

[packhuntr]

Neckred, Like i was saying earlier, do we really need more laws to get people in our own ranks to see that promoting change now, will assure a stronger future. Ive decided to change, and wow, all without someone telling me i have to.....Im not a rebel, im just able to see the benefit. I would love to eat something other than whitefish, but i dont, cause when i release these lower # fish species, im doing it in hopes that the next person to enjoy catching it will do the same. Lord knows, its gonna get clubbed for the pan though.....Id love to have afew feeds of pike like i used to, but i cant, its that simple, weve accepted that in my house hold. We choose to enjoy it on a much lower impact-scale than we used to, cause we know how greedy others are with this resource.

If you passed more laws right now to promote all the things that have been discussed here previously, Youd make criminals out of half the people on here claiming its their right, and they are within the boundarys of the law. Look at it this way, the people youve called poachers, were at one time just regular old average everyday fisherman. They went to the creek with a can of worms, and caught their limit and went home. We still have these folks out there, they are referred to as poachers now, but they still think its their right to do as they did for years. If law is needed to promote C&R fishing on certain sizes and certain species, half the folks who arent willingly open to change RIGHT NOW, AND FOR THE GOOD OF THE RESOURCE, will be folks we are going to have to report in the very near future. MARK MY WORDS..........

keep a strain on er.

[TundraBuck]

Neckred, Like i was saying earlier, do we really need more laws to get people in our own ranks to see that promoting change now, will assure a stronger future. Ive decided to change, and wow, all without someone telling me i have to.....Im not a rebel, im just able to see the benefit. I would love to eat something other than whitefish, but i dont, cause when i release these lower # fish species, im doing it in hopes that the next person to enjoy catching it will do the same. Lord knows, its gonna get clubbed for the pan though.....Id love to have afew feeds of pike like i used to, but i cant, its that simple, weve accepted that in my house hold. We choose to enjoy it on a much lower impact-scale than we used to, cause we know how greedy others are with this resource.

If you passed more laws right now to promote all the things that have been discussed here previously, Youd make criminals out of half the people on here claiming its their right, and they are within the boundarys of the law. Look at it this way, the people youve called poachers, were at one time just regular old average everyday fisherman. They went to the creek with a can of worms, and caught their limit and went home. We still have these folks out there, they are referred to as poachers now, but they still think its their right to do as they did for years. If law is needed to promote C&R fishing on certain sizes and certain species, half the folks who arent willingly open to change RIGHT NOW, AND FOR THE GOOD OF THE RESOURCE, will be folks we are going to have to report in the very near future. MARK MY WORDS..........

keep a strain on er.

Another good contribution packhuntr. Wildman, seriously, you're targeting me and doing no good here. Why don't you help to be part of the solution. And again, stop comparing hunting to fishing, you can't.

[bearbait]

ok guys.....i started this thread saying lets support our fellow outdoorsman....we all have different views on alot of stuff, but why argue with each other about them...we have enough problems with anti's...we are the one's who fuel the fires for these guys.starting a thead on educating us on spawnning fish would be alot more productive then doing this dont you think???some things are better left unsaid...

just my thoughts
rob

[TundraBuck]

ok guys.....i started this thread saying lets support our fellow outdoorsman....we all have different views on alot of stuff, but why argue with each other about them...we have enough problems with anti's...we are the one's who fuel the fires for these guys.starting a thead on educating us on spawnning fish would be alot more productive then doing this dont you think???some things are better left unsaid...

just my thoughts
rob

Starting a thread would get the exact same responses now. Guys challenging the biological facts.

[nekred]

Too bad some people have to push their ethics on others and want the ;aw to reflect their ethics!....

Here is the other side of the coin big pike eat the smaller fish even their own species. By keeping the big pike maybe i am helping the whitefish and walleye to survive!....

There is always two sides to a coin and catch limits for the lakes are set according to populations found in the lake.

Maybe by throwing back that big pike you are hurting the walleye fishery...

An I never called worm baiters poachers... only where baiting is illegal!

The more we try to tinker with the natural system the worse we seem to make it. catching and consuming is part of the natural cycle. catch and release is unnatural!.....Not saying it is wrong... there is a place for catch and release and there is a place for catch and keep.

if everone would just mind their own business and stay legal we would nat have the problem.

here is two simple rules:
if you see someone you do not know doing something that is legal you do not agree with... keep you nose out of it.

If you see someone doing something illegal.... REPORT IT....


That will do farmore for our sport than preaching some self righteos horse****

Just for the record!.... i mostly catch and release for the reasons mentioned but don't preach it!...

[TundraBuck]

Too bad some people have to push their ethics on others and want the ;aw to reflect their ethics!....

Here is the other side of the coin big pike eat the smaller fish even their own species. By keeping the big pike maybe i am helping the whitefish and walleye to survive!....

There is always two sides to a coin and catch limits for the lakes are set according to populations found in the lake.

Maybe by throwing back that big pike you are hurting the walleye fishery...

An I never called worm baiters poachers... only where baiting is illegal!

The more we try to tinker with the natural system the worse we seem to make it. catching and consuming is part of the natural cycle. catch and release is unnatural!.....Not saying it is wrong... there is a place for catch and release and there is a place for catch and keep.

if everone would just mind their own business and stay legal we would nat have the problem.

here is two simple rules:
if you see someone you do not know doing something that is legal you do not agree with... keep you nose out of it.

If you see someone doing something illegal.... REPORT IT....


That will do farmore for our sport than preaching some self righteos horse****

Just for the record!.... i mostly catch and release for the reasons mentioned but don't preach it!...

You are un-freaking-believable. C&R is way more natural than human intervention is. Wow.

[mud slug]

hey guys i know we are talking about catch and releaseing big pike, and i agree with releaseing the spawners to help keep the pike numbers strong. but just wondering if that refers to other fish as well. are we not hurting the perch population by keeping the bigger ones? or the burbot pops by keeping limits of big fish? i know out at pigeon you used to be able to catch a limit of 30 perch over 12 inches in a hour or two. now your allowed 5 over 10 inches and it takes all day.

[TundraBuck]

hey guys i know we are talking about catch and releaseing big pike, and i agree with releaseing the spawners to help keep the pike numbers strong. but just wondering if that refers to other fish as well. are we not hurting the pearch population by keeping the bigger ones? or the burbot pops by keeping limits of big fish? i know out at pigeon you used to be able to catch a limit of 30 pearch over 12 inches in a hour or two. now your allowed 5 over 10 inches and it takes all day.

Well I think like they were saying with perch being lower on the food chain, obviously there is a lot more of them in the lake than there is large pike. Not too sure about burbot as I don't fish for them much. Only place I fish for perch is cow lake and sometimes sylvan.

[wildman]

quote;
"Another good contribution packhuntr. Wildman, seriously, you're targeting me and doing no good here. Why don't you help to be part of the solution. And again, stop comparing hunting to fishing, you can't."

- first, wow. you must have been exposed to lots of oil fumes or something way up in the tundra hey??? this whole mess was started by YOU targetting OTHERS!!!!!!

- second, i AM being part of the solution by pointing out how wrong YOU are!!!

- third, i already stated my points about how killing animals by hunting is EXACTLY like killing animals by fishing. I CAN compare the two quite easily...YOU can't...

this thread was started because you constantly b!tch at people doing the same thing YOU DO...kill animals to eat...
you can't expect people to respect your opinions when you don't respect others...

[KyleM]

wildman, explain to me how comparing fishing vs hunting makes sense.

How many deer are you legally allowed to harvest per year?
How many offspring do they produce annually?
How big of an area is their environment compared to the water bodies in Alberta?

How many people hunt vs fish, I bet the number of fisherman in this province heavily outweigh the hunters due to the fact that you dont require anything other then the fishing license.

Let me explain to you why it makes zero sense.

You are legally allowed to harvest hundreds of trophy fish per year.
Your limit counts per day, not per season. I can go and take a 40 plus number pike for everyday of the season.

Do you know what a mature female pike spawns out in a year?

[nekred]

Catch and release is something that has evolved over time. Can you imagine 100 years ago in Alberta you only released the fish that were not worth eating.

Fishing for consumption is part of the natural order.

When was the last time you saw an eagle or a rizzly intentionally release a fish, and fished only for the enjoyment.

Catch and Release is only a simulation of the whole experience of angling. It has become a purist sport. You know catch and release deer hunting had huge opposition a year ago!

Climbing on the self-righteous high horse does not do any good for our sport, for our unity or for our well being.

Do what you do legally and move on.

Tundra give your head a shake and realise we all have the legal riht to catch and keep. If you are that concerned about it how about you just stop fishing altogether. the day mat come when you hook a fish very deep and mortally wound it and it will die....without being consumed by an angler.

Now explain to me how catch and release is far more natural..... Show me in history why there would be a cause for catching and releasing perfectly edible fish!.... Oh and Good Luck!

[walley]

Great posts Nekred & Wildman!

[TundraBuck]

Catch and release is something that has evolved over time. Can you imagine 100 years ago in Alberta you only released the fish that were not worth eating.

Fishing for consumption is part of the natural order.

When was the last time you saw an eagle or a rizzly intentionally release a fish, and fished only for the enjoyment.

Catch and Release is only a simulation of the whole experience of angling. It has become a purist sport. You know catch and release deer hunting had huge opposition a year ago!

Climbing on the self-righteous high horse does not do any good for our sport, for our unity or for our well being.

Do what you do legally and move on.

Tundra give your head a shake and realise we all have the legal riht to catch and keep. If you are that concerned about it how about you just stop fishing altogether. the day mat come when you hook a fish very deep and mortally wound it and it will die....without being consumed by an angler.

Now explain to me how catch and release is far more natural..... Show me in history why there would be a cause for catching and releasing perfectly edible fish!.... Oh and Good Luck!

Catch and release is as if you were not there, and keeping fish is not. I have already mortally hooked fish and in that case I have had to keep them to eat. I am not saying there is anything bad about keeping fish, it just needs to be regulated and spawning fish should be left to do what they do.

[KyleM]

100 years ago when they fished with bamboo and string?

As I recall, they didnt have stuff like like depth/fishfinders, downriggers, outboards, super-braid lines, underwater cameras, 1000's of lures to chose from, graphite comp rods, planer mast/boards, dipsys, GPS mapping/marking.....I think you get my point.

Fishing with these items is for the most part, not part of the natural order.

Not to forget about the population explosion in the last 20 years and the extreme pressure being applied to the water bodies.

Look at it this way, these fish have been around for thousands of years.
We have managed to deplete a large amount of lakes in the last 20 years....forcing the government to open up stocking programs.

Incase you didnt realize this, stocked fish dont reproduce for the most part.
Those fisheries are now destroyed.

Im not sure why you guys make the couple of us on here out to be like PETA members or fish nazis :lol: . Iam all for a great shore lunch. All we are talking about is some responsibility towards the fishery that we share. Tundra isnt talking about releasing all fish, as he has pointed out a FEW times....he shares the common goal of a having a decent fishery for the next 100 plus years to share with our kids and grandkids.

If you guys cant understand this, god help Albertas few remaining natural lakes. This is the only province I have visited that shares this bogus
attitude towards selective C&R.

Nekred, your opinion is much the same as the natives in Ontario and Quebec.
They feel that because their ancestors harvested fish for their tribe that THEY should share that right in 2008. So there they are......out in 50k fishing boats with gill nets, totally destroying the natural walleye population.

Anyways, im out to enjoy a smoke.
The government says its legal so it must be ok to smoke :lol:

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I couldnt agree with you anymore , I love fishing , even if I dont catch fish thats fine , but im a firm beleaver if your not ganna eat it throw it back take a few pictures and toss it back responsibly , I hate seeing nothing more then watching guys throw walleye like a damn football , It angers , me and im not affraid to write down your license plate and call you in to the fish cops . If you want to get a mounting of your fish get it done in fiberglass , that way it lasts forever where as if you get a skin mount they fade and crack after time. Im not telling you folks what to do were all adults here so do what you think is right and we will have fishing for years to come.

[bearbait]

hey john.....how much ice is on wabamun...can a guy get the boat out there yet or is there still alot of ice out there??
thanks
rob

[packhuntr]

Ok boys, i got digging through my old esox angler and musky hunter mags. I found an article that Pete Maina wrote in the summer 2005, Esox Angler, Volume 6 issue 3.......Straight from the page.

There are many issues surrounding catch and release fishing. What we mainly cover in this column is the how, with a little bit of why now and then. One issue we havent spent alot of time on is mandatory release-proactive reulations that require release of all fish, a majority of fish, certain size-structure ranges in a fish species etc.

There are many variables-each species and fishery with its own unique conditions-that play a role as to where and how special regs should be established. A total catch and release in many cases is not nessesary or preferable. Often selective harvest is the way to go with many species. And even with a species like Esox Masquinongy, at the top of the food chain, in some waters it could be best to purposely harvest some fish. It all boils down to each individual water's makeup. State wide or provincial regulations dont cut it. And this is why we have folks called fisheries specialists who monitor such things and therefore, we hope, make the correct management calls.

In a very basic sense, protecting certain species of fish from overharvest becomes more important as we move to larger fish, farther up the food chain(and therefore to fish occuring in the lowest densities), and as we move farther north (where fish grow slower) and it becomes less and less feasible to replenish fisheries artificially via stocking. When we are talking about slow growing fish like pike or muskies, or a big fish species twice as slow growing like a lake trout, the time required to rebound from over harvest is measured in decades.

Proactive fisheries management is important. This means protecting a tremendous resource. Sadly, to this day, regulations are reactive in many places. This means things got all screwed up....fisheries got damaged....to the point of angling interest diminishing or flat out ending.....And then there is "reaction" with protective regulations, stocking possibly, but sadly its too late. It takes time to fix things.

We felt it important to offer a success story of proactive management here. It works, and it works in all aspects. Its smart!! I can only hope that more folks will take notice of the simple fact that quality fishing is what everyone wants. There are folks who still vehemently rally against proactive regulations (however, they still desire quality fishing). The most popular and pollitically correct arguments heard repeatedly are "its a tradition" and we need to "get kids into fishing". Of course kids are a great excuse on the surface (stories of the poor kid "having" to release his first or biggest fish virtually ruining the childs psyche- an event likely to be the sole cause for a life of video games, drugs and trouble with the law), but the reality is Ive never met a kid who was against catch and release. Usually, when the reasoning behind catch and release is explained, the opposite reaction is far more likely. The messenger is the problem. Kids, even more so than adults, like to watch their bobber go down rather than stare at a floating one on a "keep all you want" water. They want to catch big fish. Positive things happen when we learn and adapt....I dont believe using "tradition" as a reason to halt this process makes much sense. Esox Angler.

Keep a strain on er. pack....

[KyleM]

"State wide or provincial regulations dont cut it"

"There are folks who still vehemently rally against proactive regulations (however, they still desire quality fishing). "

[Drano]

thank you walley!!!


Thanks Walleye.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

hey john.....how much ice is on wabamun...can a guy get the boat out there yet or is there still alot of ice out there??
thanks
rob theres still quite a bit of ice , I pulled my boat across the ice and put it in the water , but its pretty iffy to do , when we were there thursday the ice had melted about another 2 feet closer to shore in the 10 hours we were there .but as far as driving on I wouldnt , We watched some moron in a big dodge 3500 drive on and the second his tires were on icethe ice broke and was in water .

[fish_fanatic]

Omg, you men bicker like old ladies.. and they say we are bad... hmmmmm

People are going to do what they want to do anyhow.. You can sit here and talk until you are blue in the face and in the end, people will still go out and do what they want to do.

I think there are very valid points on both ends of the spectrum here, but I also think that you all just need to take a deep breath and count to ten. Just because you are posting something on the internet and you are fighting back and forth like little boys in the sandbox, doesn't mean you are going to change anything or have any impact what so ever. You all just keep butting heads and it's getting pretty ridiculous. Everyone has their own opinion and they have the right to express their opinions however, there comes a time when it becomes too much...

I think it's great that you are trying to bring an awareness to the affects that Non C&R is having on the fisheries however, as long as the law allows people to keep the fish, they are going to do just that. They have that right to exercise the law and bearing that in mind, you aren't going to influence anyones opinions on this matter by trying to cram information down their throats. As I stated above, in the end people are going to do what the want no matter what anyone else says....ie. poachers

Before any of ya'll starts thinking that I'm some evil poacher or keep every fish I have ever caught........ I have never kept one single fish in my life... I like to be able to go back to the same spot year after year and know that there are still fish worth my time there... It saddens me when I see teenagers killing everything they catch, no matter what size it is... and even worse.... people leaving their garbage on the banks or in the water... Perhaps awareness should be brought into light for those individuals? Everyone has an influence on the fisheries, not just people keeping bigger fish!!


Instead of targeting a select group of people who are obeying the law, look at the bigger picture... Tunnel vision isn't going to solve the problem..
You may not agree with people keeping the big scores however, there are worse people out there... I'd like to whack the ones that I see leave their garbage on the shores or purposely chuck it in the water cause they are tooo damn lazy, in the head with a rod.. Perhaps it will snap some sense into them!! :)


K