Tar Sands vs Oil Sands

[JJRND]

Hey everyone.
I took an intro anthropology course this last year and one of the assignments was to give a group presentation on an assigned topic. The topic my group was given was, "Tar Sands/Oil Sands: What is the semantic difference?" (Or in other words, the difference in meaning)
Our group came up with the idea that Tar Sands was generally viewed in a negative light, while Oil Sands was more positive. We talked about Tar Sands being used at first to describe the initial state of the process, and then later preferring the term Oil Sands (which is the end process). We didn't use the latter idea though. I thought that this would be an interesting discussion topic though.
What are your thoughts on the difference(s) of meaning(s) between Tar Sands and Oil Sands?

[Gust]

Terminology eh?

Kinda like asking if farting is different than emitting wind from your anus.

[loyaleddie]

Mr. Suzuki might know….Go ask him!

:rolleyes:

[pseelk]

If you"re from the east its tar sands,out here they are oilsands.

[Okotokian]

Pro-industry folks call them Oil Sands, anti's call them Tar Sands, so the implication is that "tar" must be more negative than "oil". Mind you, 20 years ago most uninformed folks of any opinion (positive or negative) called them "Tar Sands". Today it's a super-quick way to judge what side of the fence the speaker is on.

[pseelk]

Pro-industry folks call them Oil Sands, anti's call them Tar Sands, so the implication is that "tar" must be more negative than "oil". Mind you, 20 years ago most uninformed folks of any opinion (positive or negative) called them "Tar Sands". Today it's a super-quick way to judge what side of the fence the speaker is on.

Thats what I said LOL:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Rocky7]

The topic my group was given was, "Tar Sands/Oil Sands: What is the semantic difference?"

The difference is not semantic.

The fact that an anthropology professor is making that assumption, and teaching you that the difference is "semantic", tells me something about him/her and should tell you something.

[Gust]

The difference is not semantic.

The fact that an anthropology professor is making that assumption, and teaching you that the difference is "semantic", tells me something about him/her and should tell you something.

Do tell... But refrain from using the word progressive or republic or liberal or eastener in your arguement

[260 Rem]

Back in the day, they were refered to as the tar sands ...that is what we called them for many years. "Oil sands" is a politically correct cleansing now in vogue. I often refer to them as the tar sands out of habit, but make a conscious effort to use "oil sands". But, you know how some of us "old boys" hate political correctness:)

[catnthehat]

Came up here in 1973, all the locals - Natives and Whites included, called them tarsands then , and still do.
Cat

[Hagalaz]

Came up here in 1973, all the locals - Natives and Whites, called it tarsands then , and still do.
Cat

My father did the same thing.

The way he looked at was "Tar Sands or Oil Sands. Its the same thing, just worded differently."

[Gust]

I like the term money toffey. Always tarsands to me but the derrick huggers seem really offended by the term

[beansgunsghandi]

The difference is not semantic.

The fact that an anthropology professor is making that assumption, and teaching you that the difference is "semantic", tells me something about him/her and should tell you something.

Semantic does not mean irrelevant, even if it used that way often by people who don't understand the semantics of the word, grin... That's probably why the professor choose the topic, and it seems like a good one no matter what your position is on the tar/oil/duck sands.

[Okotokian]

Do tell... But refrain from using the word progressive or republic or liberal or eastener in your arguement

LOL He's working on it, but it's hard. That's why he hasn't replied yet. ;)

But I actually think that what he was trying to say is that it's more than semantics, that "tar sands" is technically incorrect because it doesn't properly describe what the material is. Really, they should just call it "bituminous sands" and be done with it.

[AxeMan]

Actually, the Athabasca Tar Sands was the original terminology used to decribe the bitumen deposit in northern Alberta. Only since the negative environmental spin has been put on the industry by the environmentalists, has the name been changed to the Oil Sands by the industry. I have a training manual in front of me right now from Syncrude from the eighties titled: "The Athabasca Tar Sands an Alchem Elective Unit". Copyright Syncrude right inside the cover.

[beansgunsghandi]

And to me I grew up with tar sands, which was re-branded oil sands in a PR move. I think everyone would agree that it's a hell of a messy process to get the oil out of it's current form, so tar seems more appropriate and historically correct to me to answer the original poster's question. It is a "divide" term like gay and other terms that says more about the person using it than the what it is describing. Those who use oil sands are normally working in the industry or pro-development, while tar sands are used by older guys like me or those who are against developing the tar sands.

[Gust]

LOL He's working on it, but it's hard. That's why he hasn't replied yet. ;)

But I actually think that what he was trying to say is that it's more than semantics, that "tar sands" is technically incorrect because it doesn't properly describe what the material is. Really, they should just call it "bituminous sands" and be done with it.

are you being subjective or objective?

I can wait for rocky to answer, afterall he is a teacher

[catnthehat]

And to me I grew up with tar sands, which was re-branded oil sands in a PR move. I think everyone would agree that it's a hell of a messy process to get the oil out of it's current form, so tar seems more appropriate and historically correct to me to answer the original poster's question. It is a "divide" term like gay and other terms that says more about the person using it than the what it is describing. Those who use oil sands are normally working in the industry or pro-development, while tar sands are used by older guys like me or those who are against developing the tar sands.

Not all "old guys" are against the development of the tarsands.

I for one actually welcome it.
Cat

[blueskys]

It has always been called Tar Sands. Suncors address at the site was Bag#xxxx Tar Island Alberta.

[Rocky7]

But I actually think that what he was trying to say is that it's more than semantics, that "tar sands" is technically incorrect because it doesn't properly describe what the material is. Really, they should just call it "bituminous sands" and be done with it.

It's not what he was "trying" to say, it's exactly what he said. Those who know less than you do missed it.

Tar is a man-made substance. It has always been a man-made substance. It is made from coal.

Bitumen is heavy oil. It is a naturally occurring substance. It is not made from coal.

What we have is sand soaked in bitumen. Hence, "oil sands". When you pour oil into sand, it does not become tar.

It's no more "semantics" than it is a question of semantics whether to call a baseball a cube. If you choose to call it a cube, you are wrong. The fact that your father called it a cube does not make it so. It is a sphere.

We now live in a world where truth is often ignored in favour of ideology and propaganda. We live in a world where laws are created on the basis of good propaganda. Words matter. Now, more than ever.

Thank you for your cooperation in this delicate matter.

[Gust]

It's not what he was "trying" to say, it's exactly what he said. Those who know less than you do missed it.

Tar is a man-made substance. It has always been a man-made substance. It is made from coal.

Bitumen is heavy oil. It is a naturally occurring substance. It is not made from coal.

What we have is sand soaked in bitumen. Hence, "oil sands". When you pour oil into sand, it does not become tar.

It's no more "semantics" than it is a question of semantics whether to call a baseball a cube. If you choose to call it a cube, you are wrong. The fact that your father called it a cube does not make it so. It is a sphere.

Sounds like a progressive in a pumpjack huggers coat talking. What do you call it when you are out with a crew? I am sticking with money toffee... Sticking, hey I made a pun!

[hal53]

Sounds like a progressive in a pumpjack huggers coat talking. What do you call it when you are out with a crew? I am sticking with money toffee... Sticking, hey I made a pun!
Yup, you're right GM, never let facts get in the way when you can poke sarcasm at somebody.....

[Gust]

Hey rockster, does singing the beverly hillbillies tune make you crazy with all that black gold and texas tea lyric?

[BeeGuy]

money toffee, hahahaha

top form today gus

[Gust]

Yup, you're right GM, never let facts get in the way when you can poke sarcasm at somebody.....

The terminology never caused shares to devalue orr production to slow or anything, heck we could call it dusty cyanide licorice and all will be fine. Who exactly is offended?

[BeeGuy]

It's not what he was "trying" to say, it's exactly what he said. Those who know less than you do missed it.

Tar is a man-made substance. It has always been a man-made substance. It is made from coal.

Bitumen is heavy oil. It is a naturally occurring substance. It is not made from coal.

What we have is sand soaked in bitumen. Hence, "oil sands". When you pour oil into sand, it does not become tar.

It's no more "semantics" than it is a question of semantics whether to call a baseball a cube. If you choose to call it a cube, you are wrong. The fact that your father called it a cube does not make it so. It is a sphere.

We now live in a world where truth is often ignored in favour of ideology and propaganda. We live in a world where laws are created on the basis of good propaganda. Words matter. Now, more than ever.

Thank you for your cooperation in this delicate matter.

When you pour oil into sand it does not become bitumen either.

Oil is a petroleum product that is liquid at ambient temperatures.

Clearly neither term is accurate.

I like bitumen sands, as they are clearly a bitc#-man.

BTW, the "oil" that comes from tarsands is just as manufactuered as any "tar".

You're really stretching beyond reason in your argument.

[dantonsen]

its a PR thing for people who've never seen the stuff.

Oilsands sounds like oily sand that you just have to squeeze the oil out of and your good to go,

Tarsands sounds like alot more of a process... Turning tar into oil, that sounds ridiculous to alot of peole who have no idea what the process looks like


It's those tailings ponds that they need to do something about, they are disgusting and will never go away. The so called reclaimed ponds are merely just covered up with fabric and they dump the petroleum coke from the plant on top then seed the top soil once they get that on there. If youve ever seen that commercial on tv bragging about how they fixed the pond there's actually 20-150 feet of toxic sludge and goop a few meters under the nice grassy field in the back. They actually took birch trees and cemented them into the ground to make it look like trees have grown there,lol

I don't care either way, I don't live there, it's allready pretty trashed so they may aswell keep going. It keeps the wages up in edmonton

[chad66]

My dad started working at "GCOS" aka "Great Canadian Oil Sands" in 1967...maybe 68....anyway it was before Syncrude. I spent many happy days mucking around in the tar along the banks of the Athabasca River while waiting for a chubfish to bite my handline. My mom gave me heck for getting tar all over my clothes, so it must be tar sands...Mom is always right...

[uglyelk]

And to me I grew up with tar sands, which was re-branded oil sands in a PR move. I think everyone would agree that it's a hell of a messy process to get the oil out of it's current form, so tar seems more appropriate and historically correct to me to answer the original poster's question. It is a "divide" term like gay and other terms that says more about the person using it than the what it is describing. Those who use oil sands are normally working in the industry or pro-development, while tar sands are used by older guys like me or those who are against developing the tar sands.No way we are calling it "THE GAY SANDS!":sHa_shakeshout:

[catnthehat]

[QUOTE=dantonsen;1438649]its a PR thing for people who've never seen the stuff.

Oilsands sounds like oily sand that you just have to squeeze the oil out of and your good to go,

Tarsands sounds like alot more of a process... Turning tar into oil, that sounds ridiculous to alot of peole who have no idea what the process looks like


It's those tailings ponds that they need to do something about, they are disgusting and will never go away. The so called reclaimed ponds are merely just covered up with fabric and they dump the petroleum coke from the plant on top then seed the top soil once they get that on there. If youve ever seen that commercial on tv bragging about how they fixed the pond there's actually 20-150 feet of toxic sludge and goop a few meters under the nice grassy field in the back. They actually took birch trees and cemented them into the ground to make it look like trees have grown there,lol

I don't care either way, I don't live there, it's allready pretty trashed so they may aswell keep going. It keeps the wages up in edmonton[/QUOTE

Hmm, I have never heard of anyone cementing birch trees down, but I have seen the growth over the years of birches, poplars , willows, spruces, and many other types of trees.
Cat

[BeeGuy]

This thread is a classic already.

Nothing more than a debate between the proles and ministry loyalists over the latest definitions in the double speak dictionary.

Quack!

[hal53]

This thread is a classic already.

Nothing more than a debate between the proles and ministry loyalists over the latest definitions in the double speak dictionary.

Quack!
Yup!!!...and love "some" people chiming in, yet they have no clue...LOL!!!!
BTW, even heavy oil is not always liquid at ambient temperatures.....

[bb356]

Yup!!!...and love "some" people chiming in, yet they have no clue...LOL!!!!
BTW, even heavy oil is not always liquid at ambient temperatures.....

Yup ............ I have hauled heavy oil which a person could not classify as liquid ........... would of been quicker to unload with a scoop shovel !!!

[Gust]

No way we are calling it "THE GAY SANDS!":sHa_shakeshout:

*****mud maybe but stateside I think it's called Santorum,,, look it up on Google it sounds really gross.

[greylynx]

This thread is a classic already.

Nothing more than a debate between the proles and ministry loyalists over the latest definitions in the double speak dictionary.

Quack!

Beeguy, You propound to be the intelligent one amongst us beings one step up the evolutionary scale from the tarpits.

If I had any intelligence. I would have asked who the professor is, what educational institution is he or she teaching from, and the actual course that is being taught.

And if I were even smarter instead of throwing chit at people, I would have asked just what sub discipline of anthropology is the so called learned teacher coming from?

I love the smell of napalm in the morning. First year organic chemistry teaches you how to make it, but the students don't know what it is. All this wonderful information that was derived from tar pits in central europe.

Tar Pits are wonderful places. They are one of first and most important places that brought about the evolution of organic chemistry in Germany.

Gus to you have some music about organic chemistry for us?

[Gust]

Gus to you have some music about organic chemistry for us?

I'll go looking, but I did once sticker hand pumps at random gas stations in Vancouver with stickers saying "100% certfied organic"

Oil music eh? Actually, I saw a piece performed by the Calgary Philharmonic in 91by a composer who paid for his education by working in Mac. The whole percussion section were cut pieces of pipe and such.

[BigJon]

Wow...I didn't realize it mattered what you call them...I have probably used both terms...maybe even in the same conversation....those people I was speaking to must have no idea how to judge my stance on ta...oi....bitumen sands...

[HyperMOA]

Can we just call it asphalt? It has to be close to asphalt. Also, I really want to see the cat that bladed that "floating" dirt onto the 150 feet of toxic water. That is an engineering feat. What does a full grown birch with a huge amount of cement weigh? Yet it doesn't drop through this "skin" of grass? when did they cross helium and concrete?

[Gust]

.

[hal53]

This is a very good transcription of the famous organ piece (which for trivias sake was originally composed for the violin),, I think there is a tarsand scene, honestly, haven't seen it since I was a kid.

More trivia,,, if the conductor didn't leave Gloria Vanderbilt, we wouldn't have Anderson Cooper.

If...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO5fL9wOaBQ
very interesting, uh...side track...thanks..I think???

[Gust]

.

[greylynx]

I'll go looking, but I did once sticker hand pumps at random gas stations in Vancouver with stickers saying "100% certfied organic"

Oil music eh? Actually, I saw a piece performed by the Calgary Philharmonic in 91by a composer who paid for his education by working in Mac. The whole percussion section were cut pieces of pipe and such.

Gus, you are genius.

We should solicit our wonderul patron of the arts Allison Redford to begin the Fort McMurray School of Fine Arts.

Could you imagine the results of when Msr. Cat et al. is requested to do the cannon fire of 1812 Overture?

[greylynx]

Gustav:

Let us allow the people get on with normal comments now.

Thank you for the inspiration this evening.

A demain mon ami

[Gust]

.

[hal53]

:thinking-006:I don't think nanyone would notice the canons if not for the pile drivers,,, holy crap that piece is in essense 200 years old. More trivia, there are cryptic notations and most musicologists say that the notes DO NOT corespond with the historical battle,, it's out of order. A good example of what they are listening for in the piece can best be explained with this piece,, considered to be the worst piece of classical music composed and by Beethoven to boot. Crank yer speakers and put the subwoofers on the hardwood,, get out your stratego games or little colonial war pieces with real firing cannons and muskets. The Rothchilds made a killing on the foreign exchange about the victory and bought up british sterling at pennies on the silver, then let the messengers tell everyone who won and the roths made stunning wealth. Sounds just like now.
Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUZNAZ3LHnw
Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTU-7TtPLi0&feature=fvwrel

and for you prouder than thou englishmen on the boards,, Arty Wellington was an Irishman,, haha!
WOW!!!!...just WOW!!!!

[Gust]

.

[Gust]

:thinking-006:
WOW!!!!...just WOW!!!!

You never struck me as a Beethoven type.

[bb356]

Gus and Ol Grey what a hoot !!! :burp:

[hal53]

You never struck me as a Beethoven type.
Kinda weird!?...you never struck me as hunter or a fisher person either???...how strange is that???

[Gust]

Kinda weird!?...you never struck me as hunter or a fisher person either???...how strange is that???

Hunter no more but fisher yes. I started my work life on the boilers for the tar sands but don't tell anyone, I like to maintain the wussy, twinkle toes persona on the forums

I fixed the interlude posts,,, so where were we?

[hal53]

Hunter no more but fisher yes. I started my work life on the boilers for the tar sands but don't tell anyone, I like to maintain the wussy, twinkle toes persona on the forums

I fixed the interlude posts,,, so where were we?
I guess we are at the point, that you are yet another one to come out here to enjoy the prosperity that the patch delivers to all of Canada, and decided that you couldn't cut it...so...instead of finding another job, you decided that you woulkd slam the economic engine that is driving the country with your un knowledgable drivel, yet still enjoy what is has to offer....or , so you can understand, you are drunk, I am tired...Good Night, I have to get more oil out of the ground tomorrow....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

[Rocky7]

I guess we are at the point, that you are yet another one to come out here to enjoy the prosperity that the patch delivers to all of Canada, and decided that you couldn't cut it...so...instead of finding another job, you decided that you woulkd slam the economic engine that is driving the country with your un knowledgable drivel, yet still enjoy what is has to offer....or , so you can understand, you are drunk, I am tired...Good Night, I have to get more oil out of the ground tomorrow....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

If liberals had any brains, Hal, they'd be conservatives.

[Gust]

I guess we are at the point, that you are yet another one to come out here to enjoy the prosperity that the patch delivers to all of Canada, and decided that you couldn't cut it...so...instead of finding another job, you decided that you woulkd slam the economic engine that is driving the country with your un knowledgable drivel, yet still enjoy what is has to offer....or , so you can understand, you are drunk, I am tired...Good Night, I have to get more oil out of the ground tomorrow....:sHa_sarcasticlol:

night hal, always a charm,, don't lose a toe.

But seriously, does it matter what it's called? Are you losing money over terminology?

[Gust]

If liberals had any brains, Hal, they'd be conservatives.

Hey here's another transplant sucking at the teet of fine oil but never set foot on a patch.

[hal53]

night hal, always a charm,, don't lose a toe.
always a charm???... don't lose a toe???... I'm thinking my little buddy is q***r as a $3 dollar bill????...joke only Bud...have a good sleep!!!

[Rocky7]

Hey here's another transplant sucking at the teet of fine oil but never set foot on a patch.

Aha! It's OIL!

[Gust]

Aha! It's OIL!

There's oil and gas and bitumen and coal and lotsa other stuff

[dantonsen]

[QUOTE=dantonsen;1438649]its a PR thing for people who've never seen the stuff.

Oilsands sounds like oily sand that you just have to squeeze the oil out of and your good to go,

Tarsands sounds like alot more of a process... Turning tar into oil, that sounds ridiculous to alot of peole who have no idea what the process looks like


It's those tailings ponds that they need to do something about, they are disgusting and will never go away. The so called reclaimed ponds are merely just covered up with fabric and they dump the petroleum coke from the plant on top then seed the top soil once they get that on there. If youve ever seen that commercial on tv bragging about how they fixed the pond there's actually 20-150 feet of toxic sludge and goop a few meters under the nice grassy field in the back. They actually took birch trees and cemented them into the ground to make it look like trees have grown there,lol

I don't care either way, I don't live there, it's allready pretty trashed so they may aswell keep going. It keeps the wages up in edmonton[/QUOTE

Hmm, I have never heard of anyone cementing birch trees down, but I have seen the growth over the years of birches, poplars , willows, spruces, and many other types of trees.
Cat

if you drive past pond 1 on suncors site just past the reclaims center there are a bunch of dead birch trees standing in the grassy area, the grass has probably grown up now but in 2010 you could see the cement at the base of the trees from the road. My friend put them up after they finished covering that pond up, a hoe operator poked a hole in the back end by accident and that stuff came bubbling up through the geo grid and the grass wouldn't grow so night shift had to spray paint hay green and put it out their before the enviroment ministry did their final flyby.

Evebtually gravity will take its course and those pond reclaims will sink and it'll be the same cess pool it was before, all it is is fabric covering the ponds and coke piled on top, between the anchors and the coke being light they hope it'll never sink. It's kinda funny actually.

All the extra super watery stuff was just pumped over to another pond so they could pull it off,

[dantonsen]

Can we just call it asphalt? It has to be close to asphalt. Also, I really want to see the cat that bladed that "floating" dirt onto the 150 feet of toxic water. That is an engineering feat. What does a full grown birch with a huge amount of cement weigh? Yet it doesn't drop through this "skin" of grass? when did they cross helium and concrete?

The whole pond is covered with fabric like material and woven together water tight, they pile up huge amounts of material on it near shore for anchors, and build engineered fingers out of petroleum coke in certain sequence so the ''cap'' gets evenly loaded as you could imagine just pushing a huge pile in one spot would just cause the rest to balloon up

once they have fingers built up enough the coke is used to fill large cells in between fingers.

Then they put sand on top, then top soil.... It's pretty neat and friggin' creepy if you ever drive out onto the pond, you can feel the waves that heavy equipment hauling the coke makes.

The reclaim is basically a chance for the operator to shove all the waste and crao thats piled up from the plant into the pond more than anything.

Those trees? you can drive a 120 000lb piece of equipment out on that material a few cemented trees doesn't hurt,lol, with 4 meters of cover on the grid according to calculations you could get suncors 793's out there if some one had the balls to drive it

[C2C]

Just picked up this forum.

I worked at Suncor for a long time and saw the pond referenced settle, dry out and get replanted. The birch trees on pilings referred to in a previous post are called "snags". They are dead trees that are planted, often upside down, to provide nesting and perches for raptors to hunt rodents on the reclaimed land. It's all part of returning to a natural habitat. The real trees are much smaller, but there's about 600,000 of them on that former pond.

As to whether it's oil sands or tar sands - Bean nailed it. It says a lot about the speaker, not the resource. We still have an "Indian Act" but if someone starts to talk to you about their view on "Indians" they're either an older person using the words they're used to, or they've got an upfront bias.

[Fisherpeak]

Oil sands/tarsands,it`s all it`s all about how P.C. you want to be.Didn`t Canola used to be called Rape seed?

[Rocky7]

Since when did organic chemistry become a matter of political correctness?

I must'a slept in.

[Fisherpeak]

Since when did organic chemistry become a matter of political correctness?



About the same time as mailmen,firemen,fishermen and midgets.

[Rocky7]

It's not midgets, it's dwarfs. You can't toss "midgets". :)

[Gust]

here's some more semantics or political correctness getting the way of good ol language, from other threads;

When I hunted there, got my first elk there, it was officially called the ****** John ridge. Another case of stupid, political correctness. Ware was known as ****** John all through his life in Alberta and nobody, including himself thought it was derogatory.

Grizz

and

Grizzly....

Ya' the ridge was called as you suggest when I hunted it. PC ends history.

and

Cool to see N John being celebrated.

and

Such exhibitions within the justice system breed contempt from one group of people against the other.

Breeding contempt between groups is the goal of every liberal, socialist or facist organization.

I await the day when muzzies are being stopped by policemen wearing their yarmulkas. Then you will see some screaming and howling.

and

Muzzie is a colloqiual term that our Canadian Armed Forces use.

I guess they don't have any Credibilty either.

I guess they are all uneducated and foolish.

Well Bucko tell me who in this world is educated and smart other than the schziophrenic way you view yourself.

By the way: Your grammar and syntax is very very similar to someone else's on this form. Are you too gutless to come out and use your regualar name and now have to hide behind another one?


muzzzieeeeeeeeeee

see, but my examples on semantics is flawed as the examples I've reposted regard human beings not moneytoffee.

[Fisherpeak]

It's not midgets, it's dwarfs. You can't toss "midgets". :)

And now it`s little people.And I don`t think you can toss them anymore,even if they like it.
I just heard on the news that Simon Fraser U wants to set up a Mens Center,only for men to discuss issues that are about men,i.e. violence,mens diminishing role in society,attitudes towards women ect.Personally I think suck it up Susie but the women on campus are outraged and vow to stop it.Even though they have a womens center.
By the way,I call it Tar Sands.Used to work up that way in the early `80`s.

[BeeGuy]

And now it`s little people.And I don`t think you can toss them anymore,even if they like it.
I just heard on the news that Simon Fraser U wants to set up a Mens Center,only for men to discuss issues that are about men,i.e. violence,mens diminishing role in society,attitudes towards women ect.Personally I think suck it up Susie but the women on campus are outraged and vow to stop it.Even though they have a womens center.
By the way,I call it Tar Sands.Used to work up that way in the early `80`s.

Men's Center.

Awesome, about damn time.

It's shameful the advantages that women are given in academia, about time we try and level this equality.

[Fisherpeak]

Men's Center.

Awesome, about damn time.

It's shameful the advantages that women are given in academia, about time we try and level this equality.

BAZINGA! That was sarcasm right?Glad to see you are in touch with your girly side.