Travers Wing Dam Fishing

[iliketrout]

Sure would be nice to see SRD do something about the absolutely disgusting lack of respect shown at the Travers spillway by many of the fishermen/fisherwomen who fish from the rock wing dams at the spillway. Spent a good amount of time there on the weekend and noted an abundance of the following:

1) LOTS of undersized fish being illegally harvested - some fish were so small you could tell they were undersized even looking from the boat. Even though I was in a boat 50 yards away, in many cases it was obvious that the fish were undersized. We caught a bunch of fish and measured all the close ones and I know what a legal walleye looks like in that lake and I know that some walleye that were kept were well below 50cm and probably below 40cm.
2) A couple guys clearly fishing with 2 rods at the same time
3) Many people fishing inside the buoys within 25 yards of the inlet
4) Horrible fish handling practices- allowing the fish to flop around on the rocks, stepping on fish to subdue them to remove the hook, taking up 3-4 minutes to unhook, measure, and maybe release (for those that did release). Even on some of those releases, the fish was simply tossed into the water with absolutely no attempt to revive them. I know what I mentioned isn't "illegal" but the mortality rates would have to be much much higher than average for the fish subjected to this treatment.

The most frustrating part is that at the spillway there is no cell phone reception, and I think the poachers know and exploit this fact. I can't call RAP when the offence occurs due to the reception and I can't get out of the boat and run to the parking lot and record plate numbers because I can't prove what vehicle a certain person is driving. The spillway is probably the furtherst point in the lake from a boat launch and is a poacher's dream for all of these reasons. What else can I do but file a general complaint with no specifics after I'm off the lake and the offender likely gone. Maybe SRD will have the manpower to follow-up...although lacking key details, I'm thinking that they won't be able to send anyone.

It's such a shame to see OUR resource treated this way. I'm going to catch heat for this comment, but I'd 100% support seeing the wing dams closed for fishing. If SRD doesn't have the resources to properly enforce regulations at a high profile, high traffic area with a high probability of busting poachers every time, what else can be done to protect the fishery from such blatant abuse and poaching?

To the guys that go to the Travers spillway and are also sick of seeing this happen, please call RAP, send an email, do something. Maybe if enough of us complain, we'll be able to convince SRD to head down there a little more often and bust some of these offenders.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I Did the same thing we watched guys keeping fish , dfont know if Nathan saw it but I was watching the group of people that were there with there 9 foot rods , stomping on the fishs head and put it in grocery bag , or better yet the guy had his wife put it in the grocery bag , well I got there pictures and forwarded it to my friends at F&W .

I mentioned to him about the people fishing within the buoys , and fish and wildlife officers get out there when they can . Things are spread so very very thin. I think its time us folks start writeing out MLA's and MP's there has to be federal money to help fund Fish and Wildlife , after all they are all federal waters are they not ?

Its sick it doesnt matter where one goes people keeping fish. I bet tommorow when I go fish Pigeon same thing will happen .

[Mariko's Rod]

If you give them as detailed a description as you did in that post they will definatly deem that as a "hot spot" and increase patrols there. people are creatures of habit and will tend to do the same things at the same spots so any info you can give them like clothing, ethnicity, vehicle color/make. etc. will help them key in next time they check the area

[Buck Krazy]

Sorry Mariko, f&w know all about this spot. Unfortunately I dont think they really see it as priority. Its been getting poached like this for atleast 15-20 years. Sucks, we all know who is doing it, just politically incorrect to say who it is lol!

[mustard73]

I know that ignorance of the law is no excuse but maybe signs could be posted? I see there are nice big signs warning not to boat inside the buoys but maybe a sign with the legal lengths and general regulations would help. I have seen similar signs at some other lakes...

[Mariko's Rod]

Sorry Mariko, f&w know all about this spot. Unfortunately I dont think they really see it as priority. Its been getting poached like this for atleast 15-20 years. Sucks, we all know who is doing it, just politically incorrect to say who it is lol!

They know of the area for sure but they could only know its hot right know if we let them know what we saw and when. they will increase patrols at a certian time at a certian area based on complaints. when they do turn the heat up on the area and deliver some paper work the pack will move elswhere and so on and so on. they need our help and take detailed complaints very seriously

[gramps73]

iliketrout
I see your point and have seen it first hand, as far as closing the dam wing arms i do not agree at all, the problems still and will always lie on the enforcement.

[Kingfisher]

I saw F&W last year in the same spot. They were taking pictures of people inside the no fishing zone. They had a green garbage bag full of fish. My son and I left as the poachers were leaving. F&W were waiting just out of site at the building on the way out. We stopped and told them what vehicle they were in. (Dark green Nissan Pathfinder). They were going to stop and ticket them on the way out.

As you said this spot is always a bad location for poaching. I agree with you they probably should shut it down all together.

[iliketrout]

iliketrout
I see your point and have seen it first hand, as far as closing the dam wing arms i do not agree at all, the problems still and will always lie on the enforcement.

I think most of us would agree that the lack of enforcement is the problem, the main reason being lack of resources. But as that situation is unlikely to change any time soon, how would you propose to address this issue with the resources available today?

[Mariko's Rod]

I think most of us would agree that the lack of enforcement is the problem, the main reason being lack of resources. But as that situation is unlikely to change any time soon, how would you propose to address this issue with the resources available today?

guys like us reporting what we see and when allows enforcement to focus their efforts on hot spots.

[gramps73]

Thats a million dollar question that i don't have an answer for. I think it starts with anglers reporting it but whats the fine for pouching?

[npauls]

Reporting them won't do any good once you get off the water anyways unless you are heading off of the water and up the hill right away to get service.

It is a tough spot to enforce for sure. They could probably station an officer there full time and rake in the fines.

[Mariko's Rod]

Reporting them won't do any good once you get off the water anyways unless you are heading off of the water and up the hill right away to get service.

It is a tough spot to enforce for sure. They could probably station an officer there full time and rake in the fines.

that attitude is part of the problem. Reporting what you saw even though it is after the fact will give them information they need so they can key in on certian individuals. If they poached between 9-12 on a saturday chances are they will be there the very next saturday 9-12 doing the same thing.

give them the info and let them decide what to do with it. not calling is just plain lazyness.

[iliketrout]

Markio and Gramps are absolutely right, it all starts with a call to RAP. When these offenders start getting busted, it will be a lot less :angry3: and a lot more :sHa_shakeshout:

For the record, I reported the activity I witnessed.

[ReconWilly]

If someone is above doing there part to aid enforcement, they are in FACT just as guilty as any poacher in regards to disrespecting our resources, they may not be poaching,however ignorance towards offenders aids the offenders and hinders any progress that COULD be made to protect OUR resources.

If you're not part of the solution(Including being neutral as that helps no one), then you are by definition a part of the problem.


Do your part or keep your lack of enforcement criticisms to yourself.:test:

[dennisb]

FYI...there is pretty good reception at Wolf Coulee

[gramps73]

Trout
I agree that RAP works but think of how much better things would be if they had the staff to make it work to it's full potential...

[iliketrout]

Trout
I agree that RAP works but think of how much better things would be if they had the staff to make it work to it's full potential...

Agreed...the cutbacks that they have sufferred are, for lack of a better word, crippling. It's a shame that our natural resources are seen as disposable when it comes to deciding whose budget gets cut, and by how much.

[iliketrout]

FYI...there is pretty good reception at Wolf Coulee

Good to know, Dennis, thank you.

[npauls]

I have called RAP probably 10 times in the last 2 years and have never had them respond to a call.

If they responded once or twice it would make it seem more worth while but when there is never a response it makes it kind of seem like a waste of time.

[The Fisherman Guy]

It's awesome that you are taking the time to make a point about this abuse of our fishery. Thank you for going out of your way to make a point about this issue to SRD and RAP.

What else can be done? How can we utilize the concerned fisherman of this community to contact SRD and bring this issue to their attention?

iliketrout, would you be able to post the link you used to contact SRD about this issue?

[DiehardFishingMan]

I just want to clarify one thing.

Most people were targeting whitefish. With so many boats around (include yours) I don't think people dare to poach walleyes.

[npauls]

I just want to clarify one thing.

Most people were targeting whitefish. With so many boats around (include yours) I don't think people dare to poach walleyes.

I know very well what a walleye and whitefish look like and some of them were definitely undersized walleyes being kept.

[DiehardFishingMan]

I know very well what a walleye and whitefish look like and some of them were definitely undersized walleyes being kept.

from 50 yard away?

[npauls]

from 50 yard away?

I wasn't in the same boat as iliketrout. I was close enough that I could have hit the shore fishermen with a 1/16th ounce jig head.

[DiehardFishingMan]

I know very well what a walleye and whitefish look like and some of them were definitely undersized walleyes being kept.

I was fishing there numeric times and have been checked by SRD three times. There is not a single time that SRD found any illegal fish.

As what I said in the earlier post, seriously speaking, with so many of your guys watching or shooting photo from the boat, do you think people stupid enough poaching fishing?

[npauls]

I was fishing there numeric times and have been checked by SRD three times. There is not a single time that SRD found any illegal fish.

As what I said in the earlier post, seriously speaking, with so many of your guys watching or shooting photo from the boat, do you think people stupid enough poaching fishing?

Yup sure do. There is people that just don't care what others think.

[chubbdarter]

I just want to clarify one thing.

Most people were targeting whitefish. With so many boats around (include yours) I don't think people dare to poach walleyes.


Can i ask why the need to dispute what iliketrout and the fisherman guy are telling you is a EYE WITNESS account of what they saw?

Both these guys are top notch guys with good angling skills and I cant understand why your so set on suggesting a different scenario happened.

[DiehardFishingMan]

Can i ask why the need to dispute what iliketrout and the fisherman guy are telling you is a EYE WITNESS account of what they saw?

Both these guys are top notch guys with good angling skills and I cant understand why your so set on suggesting a different scenario happened.

Personally, I doubt people can clearly see what kind of fish are from 50 yard (or Half block) away. But if you and iliketrout think you can see clearly, I don’t object that. But I still have my doubt.

Also I am little bit angry, because just by reading the post, I, who fishing on the spill way, was categorized either a poacher or the people who don’t care the poaching activity.

Like you guys we also care the fish resource in Alberta. Last year I report three suspicious fishing activities to SRD. This is just my feeling

[iliketrout]

iliketrout, would you be able to post the link you used to contact SRD about this issue?

I emailed Terry Clayton, the regional biologist for Travers. He was kind enough to forward on my email to the regional office. I also sent him the link to this thread and he read it. terry.clayton@gov.ab.ca

I just want to clarify one thing.

Most people were targeting whitefish. With so many boats around (include yours) I don't think people dare to poach walleyes.

So if we weren't around, are you suggesting that people would be poaching?

And I don't think most people were targetting whitefish. Some were, I agree, but tossing a green crank, large spoons, and pickerel rigs baited with minnows is hardly a whitefish technique.

Regardless of the species of fish being targetted, it still doesn't address my point #4 in the first post of this thread. The fish handling techniques were absolutely brutal. People should not be stepping on fish they intend to release and also should not leave a fish out of the water for over 3 minutes and then throw them back into the water with no attempt made to revive them.

from 50 yard away?

I think many people on here can tell a walleye from a pike from a whitefish from 50 yards away.

[iliketrout]

Personally, I doubt people can clearly see what kind of fish are from 50 yard (or Half block) away. But if you and iliketrout think you can see clearly, I don’t object that. But I still have my doubt.

Also I am little bit angry, because just by reading the post, I, who fishing on the spill way, was categorized either a poacher or the people who don’t care the poaching activity.

Like you guys we also care the fish resource in Alberta. Last year I report three suspicious fishing activities to SRD. This is just my feeling

Who is "we"? Why are you speaking for all anglers that fish from shore?

[The Fisherman Guy]

Let’s not start a fire here, this is a sensitive issue to all of us.

First of all; My decision to pursue action on my eye witness account is enough to get on government record. Many eye witness accounts from people who also decide to pursue action will garner attention to the matter by the authorities as a matter of popular demand.

Second; I am also a hunter. I can determine species of many different animals, birds and fish from far more than 50 yards.

I encourage others who have witnessed the same thing, either at Travers or anywhere else, to call RAP and contact SRD. It's one way we can make our voice heard.

Thanks for finding and posting all of the pertinent information iliketrout.

[iliketrout]

You're right TFG, I'm not trying to start a fire here. I was only trying to point out that DHFM is only one person, and while I appreciate his sincere concern for our resource, he can't possibly speak for every angler on shore or propose that every angler on shore shares our mutual concern for the resource after witnessing the fish handling practices last weekend, among other things.

I would sincerely appreciate it if this does not turn into a flame war. The last thing I want to have happen is have this thread shut down or deleted.

[chubbdarter]

SRD uses a mathicmatical formula to decide the allowable harvest. I believe poaching is factored into the formula. It is sad that because of lack of funding for enforcement that General lake harvest of size and quantities are determined by this catagory of illegal allowable harvest.

What concerns me most other than the blatant disregard for the fishery is the fact that this allowable harvest is not directly linked to updated current recruitment data. A bad spawn year or many bad spawn years without a change in the allowable harvest can result in a fishery collapse. Once again funding doesnt allow for SRD to be intimate with every water body and make changes that will save the future of the lake before the devil knows they are here.
Its sad we have to account for illegally posessed fish in the allowable harvest which then sets the rules for the the true sportsman. Its like a grave yard that reserves so many plots for bodies of drinking and driving.

Do I agree with everything Mr Clayton does ....no. Do I respect his word and judgement...absolutely. He has proven in the past he knows how to manage water bodies and Im personally enjoying his succesful fish management with some extrodinary fish now. Mr Clayton has shown he is open to Reg Changes introduced by concerned fisherman. The best format to propose any changes is to attend Regional Fishery meetings and voice your concern in a factual manner.

My Grandkids thank you for trying to keep Travers a great place for forever and a day

[The Fisherman Guy]

SRD uses a mathicmatical formula to decide the allowable harvest. I believe poaching is factored into the formula. It is sad that because of lack of funding for enforcement that General lake harvest of size and quantities are determined by this catagory of illegal allowable harvest.

What concerns me most other than the blatant disregard for the fishery is the fact that this allowable harvest is not directly linked to updated current recruitment data. A bad spawn year or many bad spawn years without a change in the allowable harvest can result in a fishery collapse. Once again funding doesnt allow for SRD to be intimate with every water body and make changes that will save the future of the lake before the devil knows they are here.
Its sad we have to account for illegally posessed fish in the allowable harvest which then sets the rules for the the true sportsman. Its like a grave yard that reserves so many plots for bodies of drinking and driving.

Do I agree with everything Mr Clayton does ....no. Do I respect his word and judgement...absolutely. He has proven in the past he knows how to manage water bodies and Im personally enjoying his succesful fish management with some extrodinary fish now. Mr Clayton has shown he is open to Reg Changes introduced by concerned fisherman. The best format to propose any changes is to attend Regional Fishery meetings and voice your concern in a factual manner.

My Grandkids thank you for trying to keep Travers a great place for forever and a day

I did not know that about poached fish being incorporated into the allowable harvest numbers, you make a good point it; it is concerning. Cause for concern is only the start. Imagine if the incredible fishing we share is destroyed because of inattention.

Thank you for posting CD.

[iliketrout]

SRD uses a mathicmatical formula to decide the allowable harvest. I believe poaching is factored into the formula. It is sad that because of lack of funding for enforcement that General lake harvest of size and quantities are determined by this catagory of illegal allowable harvest.

What concerns me most other than the blatant disregard for the fishery is the fact that this allowable harvest is not directly linked to updated current recruitment data. A bad spawn year or many bad spawn years without a change in the allowable harvest can result in a fishery collapse. Once again funding doesnt allow for SRD to be intimate with every water body and make changes that will save the future of the lake before the devil knows they are here.
Its sad we have to account for illegally posessed fish in the allowable harvest which then sets the rules for the the true sportsman. Its like a grave yard that reserves so many plots for bodies of drinking and driving.

Do I agree with everything Mr Clayton does ....no. Do I respect his word and judgement...absolutely. He has proven in the past he knows how to manage water bodies and Im personally enjoying his succesful fish management with some extrodinary fish now. Mr Clayton has shown he is open to Reg Changes introduced by concerned fisherman. The best format to propose any changes is to attend Regional Fishery meetings and voice your concern in a factual manner.

My Grandkids thank you for trying to keep Travers a great place for forever and a day

Thank you for your input CD. It is a sad state of affairs when poaching is so significant that it factors into allowable harvest calculations, and with the government knowing this, chooses to further cut funding to the organization tasked to prevent it.

I know you have got an ear to the ground and know when the fisheries meetings are. Please keep me posted. I will make my voice heard.

[Jthedisciple]

i also seen this behavior on opening day a couple guys would bring the fish almost to the chain link fence to unhook and measure with a nice dirt or rock resting place and they had at least one undersized walleye that i knew about get a clue buddies learn how to respect the resource with 890 fishable lakes in alberta we dont need people like them ruining the lakes we have left "that are viable fisheries" for the rest of us responsible fishermen.Screw you poachers hope i dont find you before fish and wildlife does.:mad3:

[npauls]

Great post Chubb.

I didn't know they factored in the illegally harvested fish to the harvest limits on a lake.

[chubbdarter]

Great post Chubb.

I didn't know they factored in the illegally harvested fish to the harvest limits on a lake.

If i remember correctly even all fish sacrificed in the srd netting or fish studies are added to the allowable harvest count, or should i say the numbers are budgeted in.

My concern still lies in the issue. How do we allow for any allowable harvest when we cant account for the actual recruitment on a regular basis?

This past year some of the historic spawning areas were high and dry. When do we see the effects of that problem?

Im guessing our Head Bio is aware and may make necessary changes to benifit the resource.

[TyreeUM]

If i remember correctly even all fish sacrificed in the srd netting or fish studies are added to the allowable harvest count, or should i say the numbers are budgeted in.

My concern still lies in the issue. How do we allow for any allowable harvest when we cant account for the actual recruitment on a regular basis?

This past year some of the historic spawning areas were high and dry. When do we see the effects of that problem?

Im guessing our Head Bio is aware and may make necessary changes to benifit the resource.

Direction and permits from SRD should allow NGO's to help with data collection, maybe this is a good place to start?

[npauls]

Ya I noticed that a few of the lakes I fish had some pretty low water levels this spring.

I was at ridge today and it is really low. I really hope it doesn't have to much of a negative affect on the southern walleye waters.

[Mariko's Rod]

I have called RAP probably 10 times in the last 2 years and have never had them respond to a call.

If they responded once or twice it would make it seem more worth while but when there is never a response it makes it kind of seem like a waste of time.

Maybe the 11th call will result in a bust and fines/court date Not only will you get a call back you will get a nice cheque in the mail. Keep calling.

[Freedom55]

Are you by any chance claiming that only shore anglers are mishandling/poaching fish? Any proof that boaters are not contributing to the problem? (present company excluded of course)?

Any time I have been to that lake, it seems that ALL the boaters in the place head for that exact spot, then fish their hearts out, most claiming to boat over 100fish every time. No nonsense in their technique, just the foreigners on shore are to be indicted.

Can any one here legitimately claim to spot the difference between an 18" fish and a 19.5" fish from any distance?

Free

[Jimboy]

The fish cops should go down there in plain clothes , unmarked vehicle and fish beside them for awhile , then pull out the badge and ticket book when they see the offence.

[iliketrout]

Are you by any chance claiming that only shore anglers are mishandling/poaching fish? Any proof that boaters are not contributing to the problem? (present company excluded of course)?

Any time I have been to that lake, it seems that ALL the boaters in the place head for that exact spot, then fish their hearts out, most claiming to boat over 100fish every time. No nonsense in their technique, just the foreigners on shore are to be indicted.

Can any one here legitimately claim to spot the difference between an 18" fish and a 19.5" fish from any distance?

Free

I never claimed that only shore fishermen are mishandling and poaching. I'm sure that it also happens on boats. I am reporting what I saw last weekend, and what I saw occurred on shore. If what I witnessed occurred on a boat it would be much easier to report, given that the vast majority of the boats at the spillway have registration numbers.

I never once discriminated based on heritage as you are suggesting by using the word foreigner. I suggest you re-read all of my posts and then come ask me again if I've made any distinction between groups of people other than poachers and non-poachers. I really don't care where a person is from, I care that he or she is following the fishing regulations.

As for fish handling in my boat, if a walleye is obviously under legal size, quite often we do not even touch the fish. Get the fish to the boat, grab the line, run your hand down to the hook, and rotate the hook backwards and release. Fish never leaves the water, I never touch the fish, and it's super easy because of pinched barbs. Using this method I've never seen a walleye not immediately swim away.

[iliketrout]

Regardless of the attempt to discredit this thread based on unfounded assumptions, this thread has been a success. In a little over 36 hours, it's been read 1090 times at the time of this post (and I know for a fact that some of those "reads" were by the right government officials). My goal of starting this thread was to raise awareness of the poaching problem that many of us have witnessed at this quality fishery.

My thanks to all who have responded with constructive comments.

[npauls]

Nice work Trout,

Maybe this thread will stir up these types of spots and get some enforcement out to them.

[pechetr]

No need to approach them directly. Just walk up close enough for them to see you writing down the license plate and description. Then get out the cellphone. If they see you calling it in, it may deter them from coming back.

[npauls]

No need to approach them directly. Just walk up close enough for them to see you writing down the license plate and description. Then get out the cellphone. If they see you calling it in, it may deter them from coming back.

The problem is we were out in boats at the time and the wing dams are all rock so there really isn't anywhere to beach a boat that is close to where they were fishing. There vehicles are also parked a bit of a walk away so you can't pin point who drove which vehicle.

There is plenty of people that fish from those wing dams that are following the rules but in the crowd there is also the ones that are poaching and just don't seem to care about laws. You would have to wait until they are ready to leave and follow them to the vehicle and then write down a plate number and walk up to somewhere with service and call them in.

The last thing is that there is no cell phone reception out around that area so there is no way to contact authorities and most of the people that fish around there in boat or on shore know this.

[chubbdarter]

Stay on course, no amount of detours will discredit this eye witness account of what he saw. Never once did he type any of his own theories on other anglers. He simply posted what he saw!!!

Here lies the next problem and to no fault of SRD staff.

We get more enforcement and tickets are handed out
Average ticket is 100 to 300 bucks
Do the math Walleye/Pickeral is 39 dollars a lb in Superstore right now.

The ticket is like a coupon to get walleye cheap.

[gramps73]

Stay on course, no amount of detours will discredit this eye witness account of what he saw. Never once did he type any of his own theories on other anglers. He simply posted what he saw!!!

Here lies the next problem and to no fault of SRD staff.

We get more enforcement and tickets are handed out
Average ticket is 100 to 300 bucks
Do the math Walleye/Pickeral is 39 dollars a lb in Superstore right now.

The ticket is like a coupon to get walleye cheap.

BEST POST YET

Chubb has hit the nail on the head with this one...
Make the punishment fit the crime....Start taking there fishing rod, tackle and the fines to start at 500.00...
maybe then it will sink in...remember i said maybe then...

[ReconWilly]

Regardless of the attempt to discredit this thread based on unfounded assumptions, this thread has been a success. In a little over 36 hours, it's been read 1090 times at the time of this post (and I know for a fact that some of those "reads" were by the right government officials). My goal of starting this thread was to raise awareness of the poaching problem that many of us have witnessed at this quality fishery.

My thanks to all who have responded with constructive comments.

A most sincere thank you for doing your part, scenarios of this nature will always have my full attention and my never ending support.

NO ONE is deserving of special privileges when it comes to using everyones resources...NO ONE.If we can follow the regulations as described by the laws that govern them, then so can EVERYONE ELSE.period.

Enough is enough already, excuses are for the weak.:)

[fishstalker]

I agree, stepping on fish is completely wrong, and not to mention just plain ignorant.
BUT, I believe the buoys aren't there to mark a no fishing zone. They are there to prevent a select few morons from driving their boat all the way up into the rock structure, falling out, and drowning. The Alberta Fishing Regulations state "Fishing is prohibited by any method within 25 yards (22.86 m) downstream of the lower entrance of any fishway, canal, obstacle or leap. Weirs and dams are considered obstacles."
This rule applies to the spillway, not the rock structure, because of it applied to the rock structure, the whole thing would be off limits. At least that my understanding.
And onto the undersized fish issue, well, that's a whole new pot of fish, so I'm not even going to start, although I will say that the regulations may need slight reworking.Try one over one under, one any size, whatever.

Anyways, that is my understanding of the regulations wording, and to prevent future confusion, they should use a diagram to clear this fog.

Tight lines;

Fishstalker

[chubbdarter]

I agree, stepping on fish is completely wrong, and not to mention just plain ignorant.
BUT, I believe the buoys aren't there to mark a no fishing zone. They are there to prevent a select few morons from driving their boat all the way up into the rock structure, falling out, and drowning. The Alberta Fishing Regulations state "Fishing is prohibited by any method within 25 yards (22.86 m) downstream of the lower entrance of any fishway, canal, obstacle or leap. Weirs and dams are considered obstacles."
This rule applies to the spillway, not the rock structure, because of it applied to the rock structure, the whole thing would be off limits. At least that my understanding.
And onto the undersized fish issue, well, that's a whole new pot of fish, so I'm not even going to start, although I will say that the regulations may need slight reworking.Try one over one under, one any size, whatever.

Anyways, that is my understanding of the regulations wording, and to prevent future confusion, they should use a diagram to clear this fog.

Tight lines;

Fishstalker

I do believe the defintion does need clarification.

Some authorites have told me the wings are part of the structure, others have said the rock retaining dams are not part of the structure.

Some have told me the 25 yards begins where the water stops its downward desent.

I believe the markers in this situation are a safety measure that is in place by the BRID. Which would make it a Federal waterway regulation.

Clear printed definitions are required but this doesnt distract from the fact we have a illegal possession problem. If a well intentioned C@R fisherman is having success inside the allowable boundaries but retains no fish and respects all fish released, i can live with that to a degree. Illegal retention of fish inside or outside the boundary is unacceptable.

Our new transparent government needs to show us where license fees are going. They need to realize the economic benifits of angling participation. Allow SRD to have the funding to simply do their jobs. The drain in the tub is wide open and the fill spout is merely a trickle.

I will continue to contact my MLA till i hopefully get answers

[chubbdarter]

iliketrout and the fisherman guy

You will soon see Few step up and it can be a lonely fight. You'll ask yourself many times- WHY BOTHER?

We the fisherman are the eyes and ears for the resource, even with a unlimited budget SRD needs us. We are the direct link very much like a in side informant. When the very Few fisherman who will step up and go the extra mile.....give up, the battle is lost.

Chin up boys, you'll see posts discreditting you, you'll get nasty pm's and well maybe worst.

Never give up

[anthony5]

I have fished this area for many years, but never the spillway and have only been checked once by F&W, took them 2 hrs to figure out how to get at us, ice fishing! If you guys are familiar with this area there is very few ways to get there or get out by vehicle in the summer, so maybe a checkstop every now and again might fix this issue, few bucks in the coffers:sHa_shakeshout: coming from those that figure that keeping illegal fish is OKAY. 50 yds away to identify a fish being caught on shore from a boat is a non issue if you know your fish, giant difference between a WALLEYE an A WHITEFISH, if you don't know the difference then you should not be keeping ANY FISH. Yes I realize law enforcement is spread a little thin but when this type of issue gets reported some investigation should take place on the shore or on the water. Lets not let this fishery get screwed up:sign0176:

[The Fisherman Guy]

Thank you for your support CD. Even if no other fishermen step up and put their effort into notifing the authorities of their own witness accounts, I agree with iliketrout; This thread now has 1441 views. The issue is now public, and many other fishermen are now aware of this problem, who may not have known before.

That means more people will be watching. More people will call Report A Poacher on these guys, the authorities must answer the public demand.

[AlbertaAngler]

Stay on course, no amount of detours will discredit this eye witness account of what he saw. Never once did he type any of his own theories on other anglers. He simply posted what he saw!!!

Here lies the next problem and to no fault of SRD staff.

We get more enforcement and tickets are handed out
Average ticket is 100 to 300 bucks
Do the math Walleye/Pickeral is 39 dollars a lb in Superstore right now.

The ticket is like a coupon to get walleye cheap.

True, if they ticket.

The officer in the Brooks/Vulcan district doesn't ticket for walleye poaching he gives the theives an appearance notice for court. Average fine handed down by a judge so far is around $1000 per walleye.

Poachers beware.

But that's only if he can catch them. One guy (for the most part) has been covering the Brooks AND Vulcan district and he can only do so much. The area definately needs more officers.

[steelhead]

In regards to poachers.



Funny, but I have seen more sponsored walleye boats take small walleyes that the shore fishers. The best is that sound travels sooo far on the water on calm days.

I always fish with witnesses.


"its ok to keep the little guys for shore lunch" , "Thats close enough to a keeper" , " I spent 8 bucks on leeches", " clean it here before we get to shore.", " its hooked too deep, we cant send it back like that" "16 inchers are better tasting anyways".

Common excuses for anglers who cant catch a legal fish for the life of them.


A week before the tourney one year, we started to stand up to some of these goofs. "we can hear you , put it back." "got your boat number, were calling it in" . I reported 5 tourney boats one year. One got pinched, the others got away with it. 2 witnesses to hearing them talk about it and visual confirmation and 4 got away with it.


Funny, the guy that got pinched cried family illness to leave the party so his peers wouldnt catch on he got caught. He was with the party next to us.


The worst poachers are the ones hidden under a guise of professionalisim and conservationalisim. And they use the above statements to justify thier unlawfull behaviour.


STEELHEAD

[Freedom55]

Regardless of the attempt to discredit this thread based on unfounded assumptions, this thread has been a success. In a little over 36 hours, it's been read 1090 times at the time of this post (and I know for a fact that some of those "reads" were by the right government officials). My goal of starting this thread was to raise awareness of the poaching problem that many of us have witnessed at this quality fishery.

My thanks to all who have responded with constructive comments.

..trout guy. Just a little fodder to chew on. Don't bust a gut; I did say "present company excluded."

But, like our language, conversations evolve so that we don't keep repeating the same old, and I thought we moved past your exemplary behaviour to discuss this issue fully (and not just your role in it).

By all means, continue to vent your frustration at your inability to change things. This forum was custom made for that. But there is not one person that frequents this website that will admit to being a member of the group you are so opposed to, so you are, in effect, preaching to the choir.
You made a good point. So did steelhead.

Free

[Freedom55]

...Walleye/Pickeral is 39 dollars a lb in Superstore right now...

Any day of the week we can buy frozen walleye filets for $13.00 per lbs in any number of grocery stores in and around Saskatoon. One store phones me when the fish arrives fresh and my wife and I enjoy a pig-out on deep fried walleye flesh. That's six nice filets for $39.00. Mmmmmm, walleye! Lots of pike filets too. No pickerals. No suckers. No basses. Salmon. Mmmmmm, salmon.

Free (sorry, trout man, for further derailing this discussion)

[The Fisherman Guy]

What point are you trying to make Freedom55?

This is an Alberta forum. I don't care what you pay for fish in Saskatchewan Freedom55. I care about the illegal activity going on at one of my local fisheries and I am not alone in my efforts to bring this message to many other people, including the authorities.

If you must derail this thread out of lack of something better to do, perhaps you can explain why you are defending the illegal poaching of undersized fish and abusive fish handling by anglers who have no respect for our public resources.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

True, if they ticket.

The officer in the Brooks/Vulcan district doesn't ticket for walleye poaching he gives the theives an appearance notice for court. Average fine handed down by a judge so far is around $1000 per walleye.

Poachers beware.

But that's only if he can catch them. One guy (for the most part) has been covering the Brooks AND Vulcan district and he can only do so much. The area definately needs more officers.

Another great post , it would be great to get provincial court judges / prosicuters to be on board . I will stand behind Gibson and Adam and Chubb , nothing more po's me off more then people who poach. Deliberately break the law . It's not just Travers with this very problem its province wide .

I have contacts of fish and wildlife officers pretty much all over Alberta . If not I contact the local officer with my findings and report and offender information . It's to bad good honest fisherman / hunters haved to be bribed with money for reporting these arseholes that don't wanna follow the laws .

I think perhaps as a group we should start speaking with media to get our story heard , and make the general public aware of these illegal activities . You see people cry foul about highways not being twinned , or drunks driving , or people robbing liquor stores . Poaching is no different , it's us the law abiding sportsmen/and woman who are being robbed , Our future generation of hunters , fisherman , trappers . It sickens me to think a fishery could be partially blamed for its collaps due to people breaking the laws .

Yes there's going to be fish mortality it's given , you hook a fish to deep , mishandle it , etc many different factors . It happens to all of us no matter how careful we are . But for someone to haul a fish out of water taking 3 or 4 or 5 minutes to handle the fish and return it to water just isn't right . But that's a whole different topic .

This is a great thread , let's stand up together and fight this fight .

[iliketrout]

..trout guy. Just a little fodder to chew on. Don't bust a gut; I did say "present company excluded."

But, like our language, conversations evolve so that we don't keep repeating the same old, and I thought we moved past your exemplary behaviour to discuss this issue fully (and not just your role in it).

By all means, continue to vent your frustration at your inability to change things. This forum was custom made for that. But there is not one person that frequents this website that will admit to being a member of the group you are so opposed to, so you are, in effect, preaching to the choir.
You made a good point. So did steelhead.

Free

I will "bust a gut" thanks very much. The moment someone starts to derail this by generalizing based on race will cause this thread to lose all credibility. I've asked for, and received from most, a discussion about poachers vs. non-poachers...not race 1 vs. race 2. When you interject the word foreigner, you light the powder keg, we get into a flame war and get shut down.

[fishnab]

Bubba 96 and I fished with his son there last Saturday as well. Met BBJ and NPauls and I'm sure several others who have posted and witnessed what was going on. It's interesting that little bubba96's son was watching us measure for some keepers. We had several @ 49 or 49.5cm and put them back. Little bubba commented that "those guys' in the inflatable boat are keeping smaller fish than we were putting back, why?
Seemed pretty obvious they heard our explaination, understood us and continued as we were 40' away. They became far more discrete about sliding their illegal fish into the fish basket hanging from the side of the inflateable though.

A 9 yr old got it and was telling us fish were to small without measuring.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Bubba 96 and I fished with his son there last Saturday as well. Met BBJ and NPauls and I'm sure several others who have posted and witnessed what was going on. It's interesting that little bubba96's son was watching us measure for some keepers. We had several @ 49 or 49.5cm and put them back. Little bubba commented that "those guys' in the inflatable boat are keeping smaller fish than we were putting back, why?
Seemed pretty obvious they heard our explaination, understood us and continued as we were 40' away. They became far more discrete about sliding their illegal fish into the fish basket hanging from the side of the inflateable though.

A 9 yr old got it and was telling us fish were to small without measuring.

That very dingy donated a nice swimbait to my anchor line . Lol I to was watching them , noticed they were acting very diligent after awhile could of been when they noticed I was watching them .

[npauls]

That swimbait came from shore John.

I watched a guy on shore tossing it.

It was a brand new hook taken out of the package and the barb not pinched.

That dingy was acting real suspicious both days we were out there but I wasn't really paying attention to them.

That place is a big time hotspot for poaching and something needs to be done.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

That swimbait came from shore John.

I watched a guy on shore tossing it.

It was a brand new hook taken out of the package and the barb not pinched.

That dingy was acting real suspicious both days we were out there but I wasn't really paying attention to them.

That place is a big time hotspot for poaching and something needs to be done.

Ohhh thought it came from them guys lol. None the less legal guys should be allowed to carry harpoons for dingys lol.

[Mark H]

In regards to poachers.



Funny, but I have seen more sponsored walleye boats take small walleyes that the shore fishers. The best is that sound travels sooo far on the water on calm days.

I always fish with witnesses.


"its ok to keep the little guys for shore lunch" , "Thats close enough to a keeper" , " I spent 8 bucks on leeches", " clean it here before we get to shore.", " its hooked too deep, we cant send it back like that" "16 inchers are better tasting anyways".

Common excuses for anglers who cant catch a legal fish for the life of them.


A week before the tourney one year, we started to stand up to some of these goofs. "we can hear you , put it back." "got your boat number, were calling it in" . I reported 5 tourney boats one year. One got pinched, the others got away with it. 2 witnesses to hearing them talk about it and visual confirmation and 4 got away with it.


Funny, the guy that got pinched cried family illness to leave the party so his peers wouldnt catch on he got caught. He was with the party next to us.


The worst poachers are the ones hidden under a guise of professionalisim and conservationalisim. And they use the above statements to justify thier unlawfull behaviour.


STEELHEAD

I'm having a hard time believing this statement...not saying it couldn't happen, just find it hard to believe.

Mark.

[bubba 96]

True, if they ticket.

The officer in the Brooks/Vulcan district doesn't ticket for walleye poaching he gives the theives an appearance notice for court. Average fine handed down by a judge so far is around $1000 per walleye.

Poachers beware.

But that's only if he can catch them. One guy (for the most part) has been covering the Brooks AND Vulcan district and he can only do so much. The area definately needs more officers.




As much as I'd like this to be true, this is not the case, I was in court last yr, for being in passenger seat of buddy's truck as we were pulling out of crawling valley having a beer(buddy driving does not drink to clear that up for anybody ready to fly off the handle) got busted fine my bad but went to court to get it extended to pay it, but while I was waiting for my name to be called there were these 3guys fishing spillway at travers... Busted with 15undersized Wally's. Judge asked who's they we're the guys didn't really understand what or why he was asking so they all put up ther hand....well this is what pizzed me off, all 3 should have been fined the judge said oh must have only been 1of your guys bag, and he handed out 1 three hundred dollar fine... :angry3: then the judge said to the guy he fined better get you buddies to pitch in in paying it.....I was choked...:snapoutofit:

[bubba 96]

Also, I did watch a lot of undersized Wally's being kept from said inflatable, and shore as iliketrout stated, should be much more enforcement....I'd pay 50 for a license if it would put more fish cops out..

[iliketrout]

Also, I did watch a lot of undersized Wally's being kept from said inflatable, and shore as iliketrout stated, should be much more enforcement....I'd pay 50 for a license if it would put more fish cops out..

I would also gladly pay more for a license but only if SRD got 100% of the incremental fees. I think that all licenses from fishing and hunting go into a general revenue stream for the government and SRD gets a portion. Doesn't seem right, does it?

[Mariko's Rod]

True but it goes both ways I guess. An Alberta Indoorsmen is probably po'ed that any of his tax dollars get spent on CO's enforcing rules that he could care less about

[iliketrout]

I don't have hard facts to back this up but I've seen on many threads here that the revenue from all licenses and tags (fishing and hunting) is greater than the budget for the branch of SRD that enforces regulations...i.e. we are contributing more than we're getting out. If true, the Alberta indoorsmen should be thanking us.

[huntsfurfish]

I don't have hard facts to back this up but I've seen on many threads here that the revenue from all licenses and tags (fishing and hunting) is greater than the budget for the branch of SRD that enforces regulations...i.e. we are contributing more than we're getting out. If true, the Alberta indoorsmen should be thanking us.

I kinda doubt that. Budget likely higher than taken in.:) And the budget is not only for enforcement (there are other "benefits" from SRD than just enforcement.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Fished Travers twice this long weekend, Sunday and today. Not many people out in boats, and hardly anyone fishing the wing dams by the spillway all day Sunday.

Today the usual poaching suspects were fishing the wing dams. We were the first boat at the spillway this morning and there were a few anglers already fishing the wing dams when we got there. At about 830 one angler quickly headed behind the buoys and proceeded to walk right to the base of the falls and catch a walleye. He marched back to his group carrying the small walleye by the gills and as I yelled at him "HEY, YOU CAN'T FISH THERE!!! THROW THAT WALLEYE BACK!!!". He laughed and asked why I was doing all the yelling!

I replied "BECAUSE YOU'RE POACHING!!!!!"

I called Report A Poacher again on these fools. I am confident that the authorities are going to tire from filing ALL of my and other responsible fishermen's written accounts of these poachers.

If you're reading this poachmaster - there were kids with you today. You are teaching their generation how to break the rules. When they discover the truth about the rules you are breaking, they will look at YOU as what you are. A criminal. It won't be my eyes you can laugh at; it is your failed legacy which will be your ultimate loss - which is my last laugh.

[chubbdarter]

I do believe the defintion does need clarification.

Some authorites have told me the wings are part of the structure, others have said the rock retaining dams are not part of the structure.

Some have told me the 25 yards begins where the water stops its downward desent.

I believe the markers in this situation are a safety measure that is in place by the BRID. Which would make it a Federal waterway regulation.

Clear printed definitions are required but this doesnt distract from the fact we have a illegal possession problem. If a well intentioned C@R fisherman is having success inside the allowable boundaries but retains no fish and respects all fish released, i can live with that to a degree. Illegal retention of fish inside or outside the boundary is unacceptable.

Our new transparent government needs to show us where license fees are going. They need to realize the economic benifits of angling participation. Allow SRD to have the funding to simply do their jobs. The drain in the tub is wide open and the fill spout is merely a trickle.

I will continue to contact my MLA till i hopefully get answers


After communications with authorities in charge.
I stand corrected the Bouys are not BRID and infact are SRD bouys.
Sorry for posting wrong information

In the case of Travers / Mac spillway the 25 yards begins at the point the water stops falling or becomes lake level.

[chubbdarter]

My best understanding of the general regs is in most cases........a canal or waterway is part or a bay of the lake to the first drop structure or obstacle/leap upstream. Some canals are clearly defined in the regs which in turn rules over the general regs.

[ReconWilly]

Fished Travers twice this long weekend, Sunday and today. Not many people out in boats, and hardly anyone fishing the wing dams by the spillway all day Sunday.

Today the usual poaching suspects were fishing the wing dams. We were the first boat at the spillway this morning and there were a few anglers already fishing the wing dams when we got there. At about 830 one angler quickly headed behind the buoys and proceeded to walk right to the base of the falls and catch a walleye. He marched back to his group carrying the small walleye by the gills and as I yelled at him "HEY, YOU CAN'T FISH THERE!!! THROW THAT WALLEYE BACK!!!". He laughed and asked why I was doing all the yelling!

I replied "BECAUSE YOU'RE POACHING!!!!!"

I called Report A Poacher again on these fools. I am confident that the authorities are going to tire from filing ALL of my and other responsible fishermen's written accounts of these poachers.

If you're reading this poachmaster - there were kids with you today. You are teaching their generation how to break the rules. When they discover the truth about the rules you are breaking, they will look at YOU as what you are. A criminal. It won't be my eyes you can laugh at; it is your failed legacy which will be your ultimate loss - which is my last laugh.

The one time i fished the Travers spillway, i witnessed GrandPappy JimBod lead his son along with his 2 granddaughters probably 5&7 years old or so right down to the edge of the concrete base and proceeded to teach his younger kin how to cast into the base of the waterfall, he then proceeded to learn the youngins how to poach walleye from the local meat dispensing spillway, their actions were reported, classic case of poachers breeding the next generation of poachers, ya gotta love GrandPappy JimBod passing down his flawed values to his own, why do we keep going in circles instead of straight lines?!?

PS These hillbillies were white, and definitely NOT new canadians, not that that should matter, i'm just sayin...:angry3:

[Mmtobias]

I agree that it is our responsibility to report illegal activities and bring some hefty fines to these people. If F&W are not able to be there all the time, then it is up to us to step up and do it. I know when i am fishing i always carry my camera to take pictures of my catches before i release them. The camera would also come in handy to take pictures of the offenders and their illegal activities. I have recently been trying to clean up mclean creek area from all the garbage and people drinking and shooting at the same time. when i posted my concerns with mclean creek, i was surprised at how many people agreed with my concern but then say that they would rather turn a blind eye or find another place rather than fight for whats right. i don't expect anyone to confront these offenders and possibly get in a fight or something, but at least report it so the authorities are aware of whats going on. I also fish at travers and have not had a fish big enough to keep yet, and i am ok with that because i know that there are regulations in place to protect that fish until it is big enough. I was contemplating the last couple of week of starting a post to see if anyone was interested in joining or starting a group who would keep an extra eye out while they are out enjoying there activities for offenders and REPORT them when they see one. I know that there are a lot of people already doing that, but if we form a group then there would be some better communications between its members about issues that we are finding on our outings and maybe people to watch out for. anyways, thats my 2 cents. let me know if anyone is interested.

[OutwardBound]

:sHa_shakeshout:

We were there May long weekend and am excited to announce that to some degree all the calling in to RAP may have helped.

Sat afternoon we were at the spillway and up walked two f&w officers, they checked everyone on shore, measured fish, even called in a boat to come to shore.

Dolled out a ticket (maybe more) to the boat and then moved over to the other side where the old spillway was and passed out some more tickets, took some fish away and checked everyone else.

To say we were pleased was an understatement as fishing there tends to boil my blood more than make it a pleasant day.

[calgarysledguy]

I was out there as well on may long.At the spill way and on the dock. F&W were out and about. My buddy was fishing on the dock. After just talking about barbs on hooks on the way there he made and honest mistake and forgot to pinch them. He got $100 ticket. We called him a poacher all weekend. He felt pretty stupid lol. The fish cop laughed when i called him a poacher. Good to see them out there doing there job.

[ReconWilly]

:sHa_shakeshout:

We were there May long weekend and am excited to announce that to some degree all the calling in to RAP may have helped.

Sat afternoon we were at the spillway and up walked two f&w officers, they checked everyone on shore, measured fish, even called in a boat to come to shore.

Dolled out a ticket (maybe more) to the boat and then moved over to the other side where the old spillway was and passed out some more tickets, took some fish away and checked everyone else.

To say we were pleased was an understatement as fishing there tends to boil my blood more than make it a pleasant day.

Awesome to hear!! Keep pressuring these criminals and they will scatter just like cockroaches when you turn the lights on, criminals are famous for taking the easy route, if you want them out your favorite fishing holes then do your part and make yourself a part of the solution, after all the alternatives are lead no where.

[chubbdarter]

Good work fisherman
and
Keep up the good work F@W

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I think you'd be fooling yourself , there's fish and wild officers who watch this forum , based on reports and forums such as this is a great tool to them .

I can honestly say its nice running into them on the water .

[Lefty-Canuck]

I think you'd be fooling yourself , there's fish and wild officers who watch this forum , based on reports and forums such as this is a great tool to them .

I can honestly say its nice running into them on the water .

X2 .....ran into a really nice officer this weekend....I practically had to beg him to ask for my license...he helped Dad and I straighten our boat on the trailer and Dad had caught one keeper fish, we showed it to him and he said yup its a keeper....didn't even measure it.

Was a great experience and I was happy to bump into him.

LC

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

X2 .....ran into a really nice officer this weekend....I practically had to beg him to ask for my license...he helped Dad and I straighten our boat on the trailer and Dad had caught one keeper fish, we showed it to him and he said yup its a keeper....didn't even measure it.

Was a great experience and I was happy to bump into him.

LC

I've found 99% of them like that only hard time I had was with a conservation officer from k country to which I handed her the fishing regulations , and she called the local fish and wildlife officer non the less she was told the proper thing , not what she thought . Wonder what happened to her bill board along the highway . :lol:

[iliketrout]

Good work fisherman
and
Keep up the good work F@W

X2 good work everyone and thanks to F&W for following up. Good to hear the guys on the boat were also caught, proves that the problem is not just on shore.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Excellent news!

I was at Travers on the long weekend, but I must have missed the officers. I did notice that one day the wing dams were pretty quiet.

Great job iliketrout starting this thread, and thank you everyone for your support and efforts to send a message to the poaching populous.

Knock it off!!

[slough shark]

To assist f&w in such high traffic poaching areas I wonder if they would ever consider setting up video cameras to assist conviction? It would be an initial outlay of perhaps 20 grand but if they are able to fine $1000 a fish they would likely get that back on a slow weekend...

[ogre]

:sHa_shakeshout:

We were there May long weekend and am excited to announce that to some degree all the calling in to RAP may have helped.

Sat afternoon we were at the spillway and up walked two f&w officers, they checked everyone on shore, measured fish, even called in a boat to come to shore.

Dolled out a ticket (maybe more) to the boat and then moved over to the other side where the old spillway was and passed out some more tickets, took some fish away and checked everyone else.

To say we were pleased was an understatement as fishing there tends to boil my blood more than make it a pleasant day.

I think you'd be fooling yourself , there's fish and wild officers who watch this forum , based on reports and forums such as this is a great tool to them .

I can honestly say its nice running into them on the water .

X2 .....ran into a really nice officer this weekend....I practically had to beg him to ask for my license...he helped Dad and I straighten our boat on the trailer and Dad had caught one keeper fish, we showed it to him and he said yup its a keeper....didn't even measure it.

Was a great experience and I was happy to bump into him.

LC

Righteous!!! :sHa_shakeshout::sHa_shakeshout::sHa_shakeshout: