Calling Lake going in the toilet

[Booner1]

Calling Lake used to be the best place to go and catch 8 plus pounders. Now in the last couple of years the fish are all head and no body. I was hoping things may have changed over the winter but they are getting worse. They are starving. People used to be able to take one fish of anysize now its two within the slot size. There is alot of walleye now but hopfully the powers at be can come up with a quick solution because next year im afraid she will be done.

[Jamie Black R/T]

that slot size was a good plan but too little too late.

that lake got pounded and a LOT of big breeders went to the table. Surely that type of walleye fishery couldnt be maintained in Alberta :scared:

[Drewski Canuck]

Actually, the problem is that there are too many fish, and on the large ones, they ate the forage base, being perch and tulibee. The slot size really was a dumb idea, as no big fish were taken, and the numbers were very high. Now the forage is gone (perch 4 - 8 inch / tulibee) so as the fish grow out of the slot size, there is no large forage which is what the bigger fish relied upon. Hence, more big skinny fish that cannot reproduce as they are starving.

All the same, the lack of enforcement on the lake this spring where people have misapprehended a 3 walleye over 50 cm, has resulted in alot of bigger fish being kept. the promised signs saying "we sc#wed up", or words to that effect, are not up yet. No Fish cop at the boat launch reminding people of the goof up, or on the lake, so maybe the bigger fish will get cleaned out after all.

the lake will rebalance itself. What is frustrating is that this is exactly what happened at Pigeon, so don't try and tell me that they did not know that too many walleye would eat themselves out of house and home.

Drewski

[pophouseman]

that slot size was a good plan but too little too late.

that lake got pounded and a LOT of big breeders went to the table. Surely that type of walleye fishery couldnt be maintained in Alberta :scared:

The problem at calling is TOO MANY fish

[highwood]

Actually, the problem is that there are too many fish, and on the large ones, they ate the forage base, being perch and tulibee. The slot size really was a dumb idea, as no big fish were taken, and the numbers were very high. Now the forage is gone (perch 4 - 8 inch / tulibee) so as the fish grow out of the slot size, there is no large forage which is what the bigger fish relied upon. Hence, more big skinny fish that cannot reproduce as they are starving.

All the same, the lack of enforcement on the lake this spring where people have misapprehended a 3 walleye over 50 cm, has resulted in alot of bigger fish being kept. the promised signs saying "we sc#wed up", or words to that effect, are not up yet. No Fish cop at the boat launch reminding people of the goof up, or on the lake, so maybe the bigger fish will get cleaned out after all.

the lake will rebalance itself. What is frustrating is that this is exactly what happened at Pigeon, so don't try and tell me that they did not know that too many walleye would eat themselves out of house and home.

Drewski

100% accurate in my opinion

[Jamie Black R/T]

The problem at calling is TOO MANY fish

thats obvious.

opinions on how to correct this and maintain it differ however.

no matter what its sure frustrating watching history repeat itself time and time again.

[Drewski Canuck]

History exactly. how many "winterkill" lakes, like Isle are closed for Walleye, only to recover and be wiped out by nature with a winter kill? What is the purpose of management of a fishery if all we are doing is knowingly letting the resource disappear without any utilization? Isle could have had a limited fishery for years, and after the winterkill which is always partial on that lake, it could have been closed for a few years and reopenned again knowing the inevitable was around the corner anyway.

I don't write the regs, and I sure wonder about some of the people who do.

Drewski

[DiabeticKripple]

i think they should have a 3 over 50cm limit for one year, then reassess. cause that will cause people to take out a good amount of fish and let the rest get bigger and fatter.

[Kim473]

i think they should have a 3 over 50cm limit for one year, then reassess. cause that will cause people to take out a good amount of fish and let the rest get bigger and fatter.

I would say 1 under 55 and 1 over should be the limit for one year. Then reasses the regs again.

What was the sense of the U of A doing there census there last year all summer if nothing changed?

Would be nice if they stocked the lake with a billion perch or feeder fish. Then you would at least have a wally with fillets bigger than a large perch. The pike might not look like snakes either.

[davegrant]

Actually, the problem is that there are too many fish, and on the large ones, they ate the forage base, being perch and tulibee. The slot size really was a dumb idea, as no big fish were taken, and the numbers were very high. Now the forage is gone (perch 4 - 8 inch / tulibee) so as the fish grow out of the slot size, there is no large forage which is what the bigger fish relied upon. Hence, more big skinny fish that cannot reproduce as they are starving.

All the same, the lack of enforcement on the lake this spring where people have misapprehended a 3 walleye over 50 cm, has resulted in alot of bigger fish being kept. the promised signs saying "we sc#wed up", or words to that effect, are not up yet. No Fish cop at the boat launch reminding people of the goof up, or on the lake, so maybe the bigger fish will get cleaned out after all.

the lake will rebalance itself. What is frustrating is that this is exactly what happened at Pigeon, so don't try and tell me that they did not know that too many walleye would eat themselves out of house and home.

Drewski

Bang On Drewski Nice to see other fisherman that get the big picture(size = forage size ). Alot of Edmonton lakes are going in the same direction: Lac ST. ANNE, BAPTISTE, LAC LA NONNE, PIGEON. Not like there isn't a track record here. Problem not with Fish Cops they just enforce what's dictated by the biologists(time to get their heads out of their ### and start managing these lakes- thin out slot size before food is gone). 2012 is the end of ministry 5 year plan so hopefully we'll see changes next year. As fisherman we need to step up and let Fish and Wildlife know about the status of these fisheries by
calling your local department, keep a log book of a day out on water recording fish numbers/size and time of catch. Then we can say we did our part to fix the problem (evidence on paper to support ). THANKS FOR LISTENING TO MY RANT :)

[Penner]

Actually, the problem is that there are too many fish, and on the large ones, they ate the forage base, being perch and tulibee. The slot size really was a dumb idea, as no big fish were taken, and the numbers were very high. Now the forage is gone (perch 4 - 8 inch / tulibee) so as the fish grow out of the slot size, there is no large forage which is what the bigger fish relied upon. Hence, more big skinny fish that cannot reproduce as they are starving.

All the same, the lack of enforcement on the lake this spring where people have misapprehended a 3 walleye over 50 cm, has resulted in alot of bigger fish being kept. the promised signs saying "we sc#wed up", or words to that effect, are not up yet. No Fish cop at the boat launch reminding people of the goof up, or on the lake, so maybe the bigger fish will get cleaned out after all.

the lake will rebalance itself. What is frustrating is that this is exactly what happened at Pigeon, so don't try and tell me that they did not know that too many walleye would eat themselves out of house and home.

Drewski


I agree with your logic and the problem that exists today and that the lake will eventually re-balance things out, but it will take time.

I don’t agree or feel that you or anyone else within this post understands what the REAL problem is.

The REAL problem was that anglers were exploiting the regulations that were in place back in the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s to the point where fish stocks plummeted and F&W/SRD had to step to police us because as a society are unable to police ourselves. Bag limits were reduced, and then reduced again, then reduced once more, then minimum size limits were introduced, and then slot limits, and now the tag system.

Unfortunately attempting to play mother nature is not as easy as it would appear and fish populations in some water bodies have suffered, fish populations in other water bodies have thrived from the decisions F&W/SRD have made. The rules continue to change as we continue to find ways to exploit them. It can’t be an easy job that for certain.

If people could limit themselves from greed we likely would not be in the position we are today. Just because limits are in place it does not account for when people keep their bag limits each and every outing. And it has and is still happening.

So we should all buckle up for more restrictions and regulations as they are likely here to stay as this post has proven, it is bluntly clear that most of us do not get it what the REAL problem is.

If we are going to point a fingers point at a mirror.

[Drewski Canuck]

Tikka,

Yes you are correct about the over fishing, but the management attempts now are missing any view about the future.

Go in August and drive on the east side of the lake where all the big dead walleye are floating and ask yourself what happened. Deep caught walleye, often deep hooked as well, are released, only to die because you cannot keep a large fish, and the large fish has been "shocked" from being pulled off of VW point in 38 FOW.
Tell me that the bio managers are not aware of the problem. If they are indeed not aware of the problem, maybe that is the real problem. The fish die anyway. Why not allow the extra "over 55 fish" in August, so these fish are not just feeding the pelicans?
If you have 10 % mortality, and a 50 fish day (very easily done) you have 5 dead fish, with the big ones being least able to deal with the shock from being pulled from the deep. When an injured fish could be kept, it has to go back to float away needlessly wasted.
The fishing will continue and the wasting of the resource will continue, regardless of size restrictions and bag limits. Given that, why not let some of the larger fish, the ones suffering the most symptoms of starvation incidentally, be utilized? I write this every year, and it makes no difference.

Drewski

[Kim473]

I have seen on an old stocking report that 1986,1987 they stocked it with about 400,000 brown trout. Has anyone ever seen one in there?

Back to the thread, I beleive that c & r is a bad thing. If one of these fish dye out of ten, The average fisher out there catches and releases 20 then 2 fish have dyed. Now with about 200 people on the water a day that is about 400 dead fish in one day. Times that by 30 fishing days and you got 12,000 needless dead fish in the year. IMO, this slot size is actually a bad thing.

If you want the lakes to recover then close them completly down for say 2 years and let nature do its thing. JMO.

[Drewski Canuck]

I think the logic was to preserve the genetics of the big fish. Slave used to have Jumbo whites until years of commercial fishing resulted in no Jumbo whites no matter how old.

Different situation here, as 1/2 the lake was closed, so there was escapement and recruitment galore. Genetics are there in all the small ones for big ones. But it is not nets killing off the big ones, its incidental mortality, which is a real waste of some nice fish.

Sorry for not wanting to waste nice fish. Apparently a sin in the C & R mindset to have the option to keep a bigger fish that you know won't make it. Release it anyways to let it die instead.

August is the worst month. Why not let one over 55 for the month of August when the problem is the worst? Big shallow caught fish at least aren't shocked in June and July, and usually make it back down without incident.

Drewski

[fargineyesore]

Isn't half the lake still closed this year? I know the regs don't mention it, but I have been told that was a mistake.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I bet that Calling becomes a Walleye Draw lake next year .

[Guitarplayingfish]

Tikka,

Yes you are correct about the over fishing, but the management attempts now are missing any view about the future.

Go in August and drive on the east side of the lake where all the big dead walleye are floating and ask yourself what happened. Deep caught walleye, often deep hooked as well, are released, only to die because you cannot keep a large fish, and the large fish has been "shocked" from being pulled off of VW point in 38 FOW.
Tell me that the bio managers are not aware of the problem. If they are indeed not aware of the problem, maybe that is the real problem. The fish die anyway. Why not allow the extra "over 55 fish" in August, so these fish are not just feeding the pelicans?
If you have 10 % mortality, and a 50 fish day (very easily done) you have 5 dead fish, with the big ones being least able to deal with the shock from being pulled from the deep. When an injured fish could be kept, it has to go back to float away needlessly wasted.
The fishing will continue and the wasting of the resource will continue, regardless of size restrictions and bag limits. Given that, why not let some of the larger fish, the ones suffering the most symptoms of starvation incidentally, be utilized? I write this every year, and it makes no difference.

Drewski

Right on the money Drew, Additive and compensatory mortality... If there is a 10% mortality rate on over 55cm or whatever, than setting a limit accordingly to that will have no different effect on the lake.. The fish would be dying anyway, and instead of feeding pelicans they can be on someones plate... same kind of thing is used to determine hunting regulations.

[Walleye Doc]

Hey Guys; I just returned from a day on Calling Lake... I disagree with a lack of forage..There is ample bait and forage fish..The problem with the walleye is a parasite infestation.. Copeopod (Zooplankton) are feeding on tapeworm eggs which mature into larvae (first immediate host)..These Copepods are ingested by bait fish. The larvae then encyst in the muscle or internal organs of the bait fish (secondary immediate host). When the walleye feed on these baitfish the tapeworm infests the Walleye..
I notice multiple tapeworms in the internal organs of the walleye that we caught today..There was also a presence of tapeworms in the "cheek meat"
The tapeworm infestation is causing the weight loss of the mature walleye..These infected fish should be "fished down"..The limits should be increased.





Calling Lake used to be the best place to go and catch 8 plus pounders. Now in the last couple of years the fish are all head and no body. I was hoping things may have changed over the winter but they are getting worse. They are starving. People used to be able to take one fish of anysize now its two within the slot size. There is alot of walleye now but hopfully the powers at be can come up with a quick solution because next year im afraid she will be done.

[davegrant]

hey guys; i just returned from a day on calling lake... I disagree with a lack of forage..there is ample bait and forage fish..the problem with the walleye is a parasite infestation.. Copeopod (zooplankton) are feeding on tapeworm eggs which mature into larvae (first immediate host)..these copepods are ingested by bait fish. The larvae then encyst in the muscle or internal organs of the bait fish (secondary immediate host). When the walleye feed on these baitfish the tapeworm infests the walleye..
I notice multiple tapeworms in the internal organs of the walleye that we caught today..there was also a presence of tapeworms in the "cheek meat"
the tapeworm infestation is causing the weight loss of the mature walleye..these infected fish should be "fished down"..the limits should be increased.

might be lots of 2-4 inch minnows but larger walleye feed 80 to 90 percent on perch. Too many walleye = no perch = starving larger walleye. Tapeworms occur naturally in the water and do not affect the health of the fish other than the appearance( little black dots on top and sides of fish looks like they been sprinkled with pepper) seen many of these on pike/walleye/whitefish and in other lakes fish were fat and healthy. Just my 2 cents.

Have a good one !!!

[Walleye Doc]

The quantity of the food supply is not the problem..The quality is the problem..The bait fish are infected with contaminated zooplankton that carry tapeworm eggs (primary intermediate host) and become secondary intermediate hosts for tapeworm larvae..The walleye are feeding on these bait fish. The larvae enter the Walleye digestive system and develop into the adult tapeworm that then produces more eggs completing the cycle.
I fished Calling Lake on June 12 2012. The 2 fish that I cleaned (50cm) were infested with tapeworms in the digestive tract and I also found them in the "cheek' meat.
The solution is to fish these sick fish out so that they do not keep releasing the tapeworm eggs.

[highwood]

The quantity of the food supply is not the problem..The quality is the problem..The bait fish are infected with contaminated zooplankton that carry tapeworm eggs (primary intermediate host) and become secondary intermediate hosts for tapeworm larvae..The walleye are feeding on these bait fish. The larvae enter the Walleye digestive system and develop into the adult tapeworm that then produces more eggs completing the cycle.
I fished Calling Lake on June 12 2012. The 2 fish that I cleaned (50cm) were infested with tapeworms in the digestive tract and I also found them in the "cheek' meat.
The solution is to fish these sick fish out so that they do not keep releasing the tapeworm eggs.

Yes we heard this the first time. Is your opinion based on merely two walleye that you cleaned? Also, how are you certain that forage is not the problem. I have been fishing Calling for years and the amount of forage has undoubtedly decreased.

[Drewski Canuck]

A reasonable theory, but we have not seen tapeworms in the fish all winter long, and I cleaned 15 whites in January and saw none. I have seen tapeworms in St. Anne really bad in whites and walleye, as well as in trout. Beaver has worms in its minnows, and the walleye are fine there.

SRD would know of worms from the test net sampling, and this is one that I have not heard of being a concern.

Reality is that Calling used to have good perch, and lots of tulibee. Not so much any more from the test netting last year, I am told.

All the big walleye I have cleaned in the past (5 - 10 pds) as well as the big pike (5 - 15 pds) usually had a tulibee or perch about 4 - 10 inches long in them. You don't see perch in the pencil weeds at 2 mile creek any more, or through the ice.

All the same, wasted fish if they are starving and dying. Last Sunday I caught a number in the 55 - 65 cm range, and they were post spawn skinny, but reasonable thickness across the back. It is early, and we will have to see if there is any improvement once I get out this weekend.

Drewski

[kingshow]

I have yet to be out on Calling this year, But based on my 6 or 7 trips last year I have caught some nice chunky extremely healthy walleye as well as some that were all head and skinny body, as well as some pike that were real snakes and some pike with a belly on them. This leads me to believe there is a difference in the age of the fish and the genetics of them according to the habitate and forage of there younger years or there era in the lake and not based on current conditions. This is just my general thoughts, as the difference is so noticable. As well I have a question on the blue green algea. What makes a fish bad to eat when the algea is present and 4 monthes later just fine for you? I did a tiny bit of research online and it seems the flesh of the fish is just fine but not the organs and such even when algea is present. I just find it confusing when the notices are posted. Any thoughts?

[Drewski Canuck]

The blue green algae fish consumption warnings only started last year in Alberta with the Board of Health posting an Advisory Notice. From what I could gather, the concern was that the fish would be contaminated, though this would have been present in years past. Never heard of a case of someone getting sick from algae infested lakes in my 47 years in Alberta. If fillets are rinsed in lake water after cleaning, I could see a connection. Otherwise, the science seems more precautionary then proven.

Drewski

[fargineyesore]

Anyone have any ideas what is causing the Algae? It seems to be getting worse each year. I spoke to the Biologist that was responsible for the Advisory and he had no idea what is causing it.

[Drewski Canuck]

Some lakes are traditionally bad for algae, ie Pigeon, Isle, Baptiste.

Some lakes are getting worse. Alot to do with the nitrogen / phosphate loads flowing into the lake with runoff, coupled with lakes with no outlet flow, resulting in buildup of nutrients. Apparently Phospates are hard to break down and can have an effect for years once present.

Altered water courses, such as what has happened with the open pit mining on the south end of Wabamum, as well as the urbanization of lake shore such as Pigeon Lake, are resulting in more runn off. Farming practices, where a feedlot is draining from 500 + cattle directly into the lake, (Pigeon???) isn't helping either with the nutrient load.

There was an article in Canadian Geographic on Lake Winnipeg where the agricultural load was the equivelent of 300 million people, though the municipallities were somehow stripping the nitrogen and phospates from the sewage treatment, making municipal efforts pointless.

Is it getting worse? Alot of work is being done on the cabin front to stop pit toilets, septic fields, etc. It means nothing if there is no water flow to drain the nutrients from the lake and there is no action by agriculture to keep cattle well away from lake drainage areas.

Drewski

[fargineyesore]

Guys I know that have been up there since the late 60s say the last three years are among the worst they've seen for the Algae. I have been going up there on and off in the summer for the last 15 years or so, and seems to me that the last three have been worse than previous. There has been some Algae before that but I don't remember it being as bad, but others may disagree with me. I don't frequent as much as some maybe.

[Kim473]

Guys I know that have been up there since the late 60s say the last three years are among the worst they've seen for the Algae. I have been going up there on and off in the summer for the last 15 years or so, and seems to me that the last three have been worse than previous. There has been some Algae before that but I don't remember it being as bad, but others may disagree with me. I don't frequent as much as some maybe.

I think we are gettind spoiled in the last few years, with hot summers and less wind. More and more alge in the lakes every year. Stuff washing in the lakes does not help. Do you think that maybe some of this alge is getting transferred from lake to lake by boats in and out?

Laws should be in effect like BC. Your boat has to be washed before going into a lake.

[fargineyesore]

I think we are gettind spoiled in the last few years, with hot summers and less wind. More and more alge in the lakes every year. Stuff washing in the lakes does not help. Do you think that maybe some of this alge is getting transferred from lake to lake by boats in and out?

Laws should be in effect like BC. Your boat has to be washed before going into a lake.
Last year we had near record rainfall in June, and the lake level rose almost a foot. Some guys had to move their boat hoists closer to shore, so you'd think there should have been good inflow/outflow to clean anything out. As for wind, there are more days at Calling that are windy than not, so I don't see a wind problem. There is no agriculture around Calling Lake, so maybe it is coming from other boats, not sure. Would be nice if they could pin down the cause, because with their being no agriculture around the lake, I'm wondering where this phosphorous may be coming from, maybe naturally occuring?

[quiteeye]

When this lake first re-opened a few years back, you'd see 2 maybe 3 boats out on that lake. Now how many do you see? The amount of people that fish pigeon and then calling. It's a transfer. Because there was no problem with these fish, or the algae 10 years ago. The skinny fish are not starving, if they were you'd catch a lot more. There like a 10 year old whitetail. After 6 years old typically there antlers don't grow much bigger and begin to grow shorter and a little stumpyer. So now all these 15+ year old fish are getting old. What happens when your 30 years old? Your in your prime, Really healthy human, as you get older. Your feeding patterns slow down, the amount is smaller, your full faster, may loss weight. You don't run as fast as you once did. You don't scrap like you once did.

The walleye population that we are keeping now are the fish just beginning to spawn, 4-6 year old eyes. The fat ones right. Cause they seem healthy... There just younger. There is no shortage of bait, and have marked many giant and I mean humongous schools of bait fish in 40+ fow .. Sometimes the entire graph from 8 feet under the boat right down to a foot off bottom is bait fish. There are billions and billions of bait in these schools. Should be two fish under 50 cm and one over 67 cm. leaving 4-6lbers to produce 20 - 100 thousand eggs. there are tonnes of fish in this lake over that length, that are just plain out old. And in the next five years... Honest to goodness, if this doesn't change, a lot of fish are gonna die and the ammonia level in the lake is gonna sky rocket. And it'll be another 30 or 40 years till the walleye in Athabaska river move back in and repopulate the lake. I'm quite frustrated with this, and I'm gonna say it but, this **** job our provincial government is doing. I'm absolutely at wits end. All I hear from government officials is "I know, I know, it's bad, and we're trying.". It's a bull**** *****ing lie. Your not trying, You don't know **** about walleye and fishing.. You went to school for 6 years sat in a class and learned nothing. You don't know nothing about fishing. You hire university students to go to a lake who sit in 80 fow and say go there tell us if there are fish in the lake... No kidding they didn't catch any shut the lake down... Or wait lets put a slot size limit on the spawning fish.. The big skinny 70cm+ there so old and pretty we should leave them in the lake... They don't do nothing you meat balls... There fish that don't spawn, big old skinny females. Actually all they do is lower bait fish levels, taking food away from fish who are using the bait to grow an to produce milt and eggs... This is it! Someone had to say it! I'm so frustrated. I want to talk to the head guy right now and tell him to pull his head out of his ass or get the ***** outa the hot seat an let people who know what there doing, take over. Long live the quiteeye!!!

[quiteeye]

Take that 2 or 3 hundred thousand dollar salary shove it up your ass. I'll do it for free!

[Drewski Canuck]

Actually, the clouds of bait from 8' down in 40 FOW are mostly whitefish. The January commercial fishery was averaging 100 whites per net, and one group I know had 6 nets set for a week. They had a trailer of fish boxes every afternoon, and hardly any walleye. The whites were 3 - 7 pds. One licencee had 30 nets, and was taking a cube van to Jousard every night, pulling every second net each day.

As for the only real change for Calling, there was a big burn up on the Rock Island river (2009??) and after that, the water was murky that year and 2010 did see algae. I suspect that there was alot of washout to the lake from the ash, as it was a big burn, but the vegetation should now have re established and should stop the runoff.

Drewski

[gronk]

I attended the F&W fishing meeting last fall in Athabasca. Calling lake was a big topic, F&W admitted that they made a mistake by closing the lake which lead to the issues today. They want to temporarily increase the limit but are concerned about the increased number of boats that would cause. One option that they are looking at is increasing the limit for ice fishing.

Calling lake never should have been closed in the first place the biologists need to get better data before they make these decisions. Anyone who spent some time on the water the year prior to them closing the lake could tell you that it was a healthy lake within all size classes.

And Yes entire lake is open this year.