Fun in Manitoba

[Bigtoad]

5 of us traveled the 12 hours to Manitoba at the end of May and fished for trout at several of the lakes there in the Parkland area. For two days it rained and blew like crazy but we still found some monster fish, and had a few magical hours along the way as well.

This is what happens when the regs are a harvest of one under 18" or total C&R, you don't overstock, and you have enough lakes designated this way that the pressure isn't stupid crazy. S.R.D., WAKE UP!!!!:snapoutofit:

We caught several between 7-8 lbs and up to 11lbs (measured).
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280003.jpg

And despite popular belief, these are not "easy" fish. You had to work at them, had to know what they were eating, had to locate them, and of course, you had to hold onto the pigs once they were on. These were not the docile brood stock like here in Alberta. These were high jumping, mean S.O.B.'s that liked to fight and break 1x tippet when they hit the reeds.

This is why there needs to be more quality fisheries in Alberta with better regulations, that are managed better than they currently are. When you see what a well-managed fishery looks like compared to one that isn't, it's hard to go back. I have no idea how I'm going to convince myself that an anorexic 18" rainbow is a big one here in Alberta. Sigh...

If you haven't been out there yet and experienced what "good" fishing actually is, you owe it to yourself. Just be prepared for being "wrecked" for the rest of your Alberta fishing life.

Cheers.

[fishpro]

Jeez that sounds unreal! Gonna have to get out there one of these days as well as try and get some of these sorts of fisheries in Alberta!

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I love fishing Manitoba , esspecially them Catfish at Lockport . :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

[Walleye101]

Yes you know it! Those Channel Cats are absolutely awesome fun!!! Our gov't is great in Alberta except for fisheries!!

[Alberta_bassman]

if u go to lake newell right time of the year .. u can catch rainbows like that ..all day ... i didnt go this year went bass fishin ...but last year biggest was 14 pounds lots of 4-10 pounders .. but it last only for a couple weeks of spring ..

[Wes_G]

I have seen additional pics from this trip.... there are some absolutely huge trout and wont disagree with a thing that you have said regarding fishing here. Looks like it was an awesome time!

[chubbdarter]

5 of us traveled the 12 hours to Manitoba at the end of May and fished for trout at several of the lakes there in the Parkland area. For two days it rained and blew like crazy but we still found some monster fish, and had a few magical hours along the way as well.

This is what happens when the regs are a harvest of one under 18" or total C&R, you don't overstock, and you have enough lakes designated this way that the pressure isn't stupid crazy. S.R.D., WAKE UP!!!!:snapoutofit:

We caught several between 7-8 lbs and up to 11lbs (measured).
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280003.jpg

And despite popular belief, these are not "easy" fish. You had to work at them, had to know what they were eating, had to locate them, and of course, you had to hold onto the pigs once they were on. These were not the docile brood stock like here in Alberta. These were high jumping, mean S.O.B.'s that liked to fight and break 1x tippet when they hit the reeds.

This is why there needs to be more quality fisheries in Alberta with better regulations, that are managed better than they currently are. When you see what a well-managed fishery looks like compared to one that isn't, it's hard to go back. I have no idea how I'm going to convince myself that an anorexic 18" rainbow is a big one here in Alberta. Sigh...

If you haven't been out there yet and experienced what "good" fishing actually is, you owe it to yourself. Just be prepared for being "wrecked" for the rest of your Alberta fishing life.

Cheers.


With all due respect.....what percentage of the overall anglers in alberta would this change serve?
What percentage of the overall angling community does the Police Lake special fishery serve?

[Lefty-Canuck]

What is the angler per lake ratio in Manitoba vs. The angler per lake in Alberta?

How many lakes are "fishable" there vs. here....?

Some answers as to what goes on here lies in these two numbers...

LC

[AppleJax]

The Angler:Lake ratio makes Alberta and Manitoba uncomparable. I agree that we need to use better managment practices in our lakes. However, I have caught many trout in Alberta in that size range and bigger. We still have lots of great fishing in Alberta. So before going Alberta bashing, maybe try out a few more lakes ;)
10% of Fishermen catch 90% of the fish

[Lefty-Canuck]

Even though the fishing other places can be stellar.....one can make out pretty well in Alberta too....:)

Was a sunny foggy afternoon when this was caught....:)

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd460/lefty-canuck/rainbow.jpg

LC

[AppleJax]

Even though the fishing other places can be stellar.....one can make out pretty well in Alberta too.... :)

Was a sunny foggy afternoon when this was caught....:)

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd460/lefty-canuck/rainbow.jpg

LC

I like to think the challenging fishing here makes for a better angler. You have to develop and refine your techniquies and methods more to catch the fish:fishing:

[Bigtoad]

I like to think the challenging fishing here makes for a better angler. You have to develop and refine your techniquies and methods more to catch the fish:fishing:

As I've said on here several times and on different threads, catching large trout in a lake in Alberta isn't really about how good of a fishermen you are (with only a handful of exceptions)

The biggest issue is opportunity.

There are very few lakes in Alberta where you can catch an 8lb rainbow, or brown, or, dare I say, Tiger (I'm not talking brood stock here boys). There are some lakes, I am sure, but not many outside of C&R or a limit of one.

If you get really, really, really, really lucky you might catch one big fish (8lbs or better) and begin to think it has something to do with your skill as a fishermen. Maybe you get even luckier and catch another big one, and begin to believe that you're God's gift to fishing. Well done, congratulations, apparently you have "arrived" and Alberta fisheries are doing awesome; just the fish are a lot smarter here than elsewhere in B.C., Sask, or Manitoba. That must be it... smarter fish, so the fishermen must be even smarter to catch them???

Maybe if you can consistently catch big fish when others can't, it is about the fishermen. Maybe. But in my experience trying to catch big trout in lakes in Alberta isn't really about fishing skill but about poor management of a fishery that encourages overharvesting of fish, continues to overstock the few "quality" fisheries they do have, and allows a limit of 5 on many lakes that they aerate for larger fish. I don't care how good a fishermen you are, that's just bad management.

The Angler:Lake ratio makes Alberta and Manitoba uncomparable.
I agree, it was "uncomparable". Like night and day. I could travel to 4 or 5 great lakes within an hours drive. Some with Rainbows, some with Browns and Rainbows, some with Brookies and Browns, and some with Tigers. Where in Alberta can you do that? Manitoba (through the FLIPPR organization) were purposefully stocking lakes together in an area with different species to create more opportunities for the angler. Then they put regulations on those lakes (like one under 18" or strictly C&R) to allow the big fish in the lakes to remain in the lake for others to enjoy. Manitoba seems to have a plan on how to make their fishing BETTER (and seem quite successful at it). Alberta only has a plan to SUSTAIN what we do have (and they are not very successful even at this), but seem to have no initiative or ambition to make it better...

We have way more fishermen: lakes in Alberta than they do in Manitoba. Some of the lakes we were fishing, we were the only ones. Yet head to Beaver Lake and there are ten boats on it. So if we have more fishermen and less lakes, then shouldn't we be creating even more quality opportunities here in Alberta to meet that need? Shouldn't the regs be even more strict? Shouldn't we be stocking browns and rainbows together to make better fishing opportunities? Shouldn't we have some Tigers roaming around? Shouldn't there be some type of freaking plan? With the number of fishermen we have in Alberta, and the limited resources that we do have, SRD should be doing a MUCH better job managing the resources we do still have. I'm not sure how you can disagree? If you do, then go to Manitoba and see what fishing actually could be like and then see if you still think Alberta is doing a good job. Caution... you may never come back.

Most of the fishermen we saw were from Alberta. That should tell you something about what the fishing is like here (again, strictly talking trout in lakes here). It was soooo good there, I would drive 12 hours (one way) to fish it. And I would do it again in a heart beat.

Cheers.

[Speckle55]

The Angler:Lake ratio makes Alberta and Manitoba uncomparable. I agree that we need to use better managment practices in our lakes. However, I have caught many trout in Alberta in that size range and bigger. We still have lots of great fishing in Alberta. So before going Alberta bashing, maybe try out a few more lakes ;)
10% of Fishermen catch 90% of the fish

Agree

[Bigtoad]

Can you catch one of these in Alberta?
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5290025.jpg

What about a guy like this outside of a park?
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280001.jpg

Nuff said.

[Speckle55]

in my area(Hinton) all stocked rainbow lake's have produce 8lb + rainbows except Fairfax and not sure about that .. but then in Alberta we have how many Rainbow lakes?.. remembering rainbows live how long ? rainbows are dieing of old age because they get smart:sign0161:

Food for Thought
David:)

[Speckle55]

11# 11oz Swan Lake(north) a few years ago
lots of 7#ers Millers this year
Thunder lake 4 1/2 brookies this year
Muskiki 4lb Cutthroat this year
Obed 7#6 Brown this year entered
Perrie Gray Brookie 5# this year

my club members www.HintonfishandGame.ca

please look at AFGA new book to look at the reported catches .. the 10% of fisherman don,t very often report/enter thier fish

all those lakes are catch and keep lakes

Food for Thought
David

[Bigtoad]

in my area(Hinton) all stocked rainbow lake's have produce 8lb + rainbows except Fairfax and not sure about that .. but then in Alberta we have how many Rainbow lakes?.. remembering rainbows live how long ? rainbows are dieing of old age because they get smart:sign0161:

Food for Thought
David:)

"Have" produced or "do" produce Speckle? I know of several lakes in the province that "have" produced them and then with a limit of 5 of any size, suddenly stopped producing them when word got out. If a lake can produce a big trout it needs to be managed in such a way that it can consistently produce them. Here is where I have the issue with how SRD manages their fisheries; regulations and management practices that do not allow sustainability of quality fisheries.

And what's wrong with a trout dieing of old age? Why do you see that as a waste? I see a 5lb fish caught and kept, instead of being released, as a waste. Why would we only catch that fish once? Why not throw it back for someone else to enjoy and let it get even bigger and even tougher to catch? Keep the small-average fish (if at all) and release the larger ones. That's the only way the fisheries here in Alberta will have any chance of even being in the same ballpark as Manitoba (or B.C. or Sask).

And I'm not saying that every lake should be managed this way. The majority should be kept to 5 (or 3) of any size. But a lot more (aerated lakes for example) could be managed much differently.

Cheers.

[Lefty-Canuck]

As was mentioned....there is a different set of problems here in Alberta than there is in Manitoba....to that extent the two places cannot be equally compared.

I don't think SRD mismanagement is ALL to blame. Anglers per lake. Sustainable "fishable" lakes......heck geologic and geographic formations are so different from the prairies to the canadian shield....

It is like saying what is the average household income in Fort McMurray vs. Cambridge Bay Nunavut....

Yes you can catch a Tiger trout in Manitoba, and channel cats, etc.....but you can't catch Mahi-Mahi in Alberta or Manitoba :)

In alberta we have learned to live with and enjoy what we have when it comes to fishing....the glory days of a fish every cast are long gone....sadly fisherman in Alberta are partly to blame for the sorry state it is in.

I keep 0.0001% of the fish I catch BTW....

LC

[Speckle55]

"Have" produced or "do" produce Speckle? I know of several lakes in the province that "have" produced them and then with a limit of 5 of any size, suddenly stopped producing them when word got out. If a lake can produce a big trout it needs to be managed in such a way that it can consistently produce them. Here is where I have the issue with how SRD manages their fisheries; regulations and management practices that do not allow sustainability of quality fisheries.

And what's wrong with a trout dieing of old age? Why do you see that as a waste? I see a 5lb fish caught and kept, instead of being released, as a waste. Why would we only catch that fish once? Why not throw it back for someone else to enjoy and let it get even bigger and even tougher to catch? Keep the small-average fish (if at all) and release the larger ones. That's the only way the fisheries here in Alberta will have any chance of even being in the same ballpark as Manitoba (or B.C. or Sask).

And I'm not saying that every lake should be managed this way. The majority should be kept to 5 (or 3) of any size. But a lot more (aerated lakes for example) could be managed much differently.

Cheers.
Lots of times on Maligne i have caught fish that have problems because they have been caught and release to many times and have been living in agony because the natural slime has been taken off and they are dieing or very sick and you have seen too.. i repesent 500 anglers as their fishchair and 90 percent are catch and keep and fish put and take lakes.. this is a 1 vote per person you think your MLA wants to keep being elected.. i am a extreme angler but i am one they are 450.. thinking of most anglers:sHa_shakeshout:

Food for Thought
David

[Speckle55]

Here is one of those un-reported this year(released) fish a bull trout enjoy:)David
53135

[Bigtoad]

Lots of times on Maligne i have caught fish that have problems because they have been caught and release to many times and have been living in agony because the natural slime has been taken off and they are dieing or very sick and you have seen too..

So make some more quality fisheries Speckle and it won't get hit so hard.

I've seen fish on the Bow or North Ram that have been caught many, many times and though they may have some poor dental records, seem in great shape. C&R does inadvertently kill some fish, but it does work when done correctly.


i repesent 500 anglers as thier fishchair and 90 percent are catch and keep and fish put and take lakes.. this is a 1 vote per person you think your MLA wants to keep being elected.. i am a extreme angler but i am one they are 450.. thinking of most anglers:sHa_shakeshout:

I don't really know what you're trying to say here David? You represent a lot of anglers and they like to catch and keep? Is that it? Ok. I'm all for catch and keep fisheries. Go for it. Bring your MLA. Whatever floats your boat.

What I don't appreciate is how few quality fisheries we do have and how those quality fisheries are managed (regs and overstocking). That's it. I want SRD to be thoughtful, proactive, and sustainable, instead of reactive. They seem to do a decent job with the trout rivers in Alberta but can't seem to figure it out for our lakes.

At least that has been my experience and the experience of many of the people that I know. Perhaps it is not yours. Manitoba seemed to have it figured out and were doing the right things in the right way. Things that SRD talks about but really doesn't seem to be having success with. They could easily model what FLIPPR is doing in Manitoba but instead keep mulling about and scratching their heads. I don't get it...

Cheers.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Bigtoad,

I respect what you are saying but you are really focussed on the "SRD factor".....that is a piece of the puzzle but there are many other contributing pieces to that puzzle....SRD management (mis-management) is only one of those....and they are the easiest to blame....

SRD in Manitoba has a WAAAAAYYYY easier job in management than the guys in Alberta do....based on sheer numbers of anglers and fishable waterbodies....

FWIW...I consider put and take lakes to be a measure to appease the masses...I prefer to go after native unstocked fish in the lakes, rivers, and streams that provide those sort of opportunities.

A lot of folks want to fish 5 minutes from home for stocked rainbows and that is totally ok too....we all just like to fish!

LC

[Bigtoad]

Here is one of those un-reported this year(released) fish a bull trout enjoy:)David
53135

Great example Speckle and beautiful fish! Wow. But isn't there a total C&R on Bull trout in Alberta? If there was a limit of 5 bulls of any size here would you ever catch a bull that big, regardless of how good a fishermen you were? Simply... no you wouldn't. That fish is a testament to C&R regulations.

Now if we could have a few more C&R regs or a limit of one under 18" on some (even a small percentage of the 400+ stocked lakes) of our trout lakes in Alberta, perhaps we would see the potential of these lakes.

Cheers.

[Stugeogarcia]

What is the angler per lake ratio in Manitoba vs. The angler per lake in Alberta?

How many lakes are "fishable" there vs. here....?

Some answers as to what goes on here lies in these two numbers...

LC

Your questions are good.......but that's why, we have to be better at it.

[BGSH]

I bet anybody here that if you ventured out to northern Alberta you will catch unlimited monster fish of all species, no one drives 8 hours to check out all the untouched lakes in northern Alberta, bet anyone here you will catch 7 pound rainbows, huge pike and huge walleye, for example i bet bistcho lake has monsters in it, obviously not many people fish it so the fish get huge up there, and who goes to wood buffalo to fish, not many people now that being said the lakes and rivers around major citys obviously get hit the hardest, it kind of sucks but not many people these days practice catch and release.

[Bigtoad]

Ok, here's a really simple example of what I'm talking about.

Take Swan Lake by Valleyview and one of the lakes we fished in Manitoba (it could be any one of them really). Both are similar size, similar forage base, both are aerated to overwinter the rainbows. Both have great potential. Very similar.

One lake in Manitoba 3 of us found where they were at and what they were eating and caught over 5 fish each that averaged 6-8lbs with a few smaller and a couple bigger. On that lake, it was a limit of one under about 18" so we threw all of the big boys back. It was a great day of fishing.

Now if you think about it, between just 3 of us, if that lake was moved to Alberta and had a limit of 5 fish each of any size (like Swan Lake currently does) 3 of us in ONE day could have kept between 90-120lbs (6-8lbs x 5 each) of fish!

3 of us.... in one day....over 100lbs of fish.

5 years ago Swan Lake was like this lake in Manitoba. There was no guarantee of big fish and you might go all day without one, but if you could find them and find what they were eating, you had a really good chance of catching a monster fish. However, you'd be lucky to catch anything over 22" in Swan right now.

So what's the difference? Well, when you look at 3 guys being able to clean out 100lbs of fish in one day, and start extrapolating that out for a year and more guys fishing, and the odds of catching a big one quickly diminish as the popularity of that lake goes up. It's a freaking miracle anyone catches a decent fish in Alberta at all.

So yeah, I know it's easy to blame SRD and there are other factors involved, but part of the reason it's easy to blame SRD is because it's really quite easy to blame SRD! Look around the province at places like Swan or Beaver, or any aerated lake with a limit over 1 fish, and blame SRD for not putting sufficient regulations in place to protect that quality fishery.

That's the difference. We can hide behind the, "well Alberta has more fishermen and less lakes so we have more pressure," excuse about quality fisheries, but then we should be the ones with stiffer regulations in the first place? Shouldn't we? We're the ones with more fishermen and less of the resource. It should be us with the stricter regs too then... but no. It should be places like Manitoba with the limit's of 5 of any size. Yet we find the opposite; we have the loose regulations and generally poor fishing and Manitoba has the stiffer regs and better fishing. Go figure.

So yeah, I'll take the easy route and blame SRD until I see them leading by example instead of lagging well behind other provinces.

And I know there are other factors to consider but allowing 3 guys to be able to keep 100lbs of fish in 1 day seems like a pretty important piece of the puzzle and the regulations are one major thing that can be changed and see an immediate impact.

Cheers.

[archeryman]

I was born and raised in Manitoba. Moved here just over a year ago and have found the fishing here to be different than back home. First off, ALMOST any fresh water species in North America can be found in that province alone. I have caught Walleye, Pike, Smallmouth, Largemouth, Perch, Black Crappie, Pumpkin Seed, Bluegill, Channel Cat, Bullhead, Goldeye, Mooneye, White Bass, Sturgeon, Freshwater Drum, Carp, Sucker, Stone Cats, Rainbow Trout, Brown Trout, Brook trout, Artic Char, etc. I may have missed a couple but all of those were all caught within a 1 hour radius. You don't have that here. Actually most of those can come out of 1 body of water. Now, that being said..... Alberta doesn't even compare to the amount of lakes, streams and rivers Manitoba has. Also, two completely different provinces for lake structure, etc.

Fishing here is quite a bit different. I miss the ability to go to a lake and catch 50+ walleye in a day. The walleye range from 14"-30" and you can keep a few for dinner and still not affect the fishery. I have come to live with what Alberta offers in my area and have enjoyed the fishing here. I don't want this to sound like a slam against Alberta at all. It just isn't the same. They could try and create a better fishery in some places, but what they have to work with is by far a lot less than what Manitoba has.

[Speckle55]

Big Toad u do understand potenial of a lake ..Plankton..Zooilogy etc.. just like a farm.. so these lakes in Alberta have the same potenial as Swan? ..in Millers lake this year Ice fishing at the very end of season two 25 inch plus Rainbows in buddys truck i saw 7lbers .he is a Master Angler..another AO member said to me at Obed he caught 6 fish 4 to 6 1/2 lbs and released after ice off this year in Millers Lake.. if you don,t want to go 6 hrs come up here there is a 12# brown in there too no one can hold onto and a few 8lb Rainbows.. Millers is areated..

what i mean is some lakes have way better growth potenial.. like Crawling Valley Lake when the rainbows were put in years ago because at the time it had just flooded..feed is important like Defenbaker farming around etc..Kootenay adding for plankton.. Big Lake = Big Fish ..Big Fish Tank = Big Fish.. you have keyed in on a certain lake in Manitoba .. now key in on certain lakes in Alberta..

if what you say is right why does Alberta have so may record fish that are World Class .. 20# Rainbow 12#14 Brook Trout.. my BrookTrout was 29 1/2 inches long 12#13oz so that one in Manitoba was 29 inches catch and release

Fish Alberta just start keying in on certain lakes

in the 80's i got 4 World Record line classes etc in 3 differn't species in 1 hr and 1/2 of my home

Food for Thought
David

[chubbdarter]

With all due respect.....what percentage of the overall anglers in alberta would this change serve?
What percentage of the overall angling community does the Police Lake special fishery serve?


im guessing you cant answer these ?'s

I have respect for SRD and their work. I believe if your opinion was backed by enough concerned anglers who represented a sizeable portion of the license buying anglers................your plan would be entertained.

SRD manages for the entire angling population, they are not funded enough to cater to every special interest group. As a note of interest Flyfisherman make up 4 percent.

Heres another question. If SRD made a special fee for managing Trophy Trout waters? would there be enough permits sold to manage the lake...eg prevent winterkill?

[Daceminnow]

nice fish toad. any pictures to share of the fish tipping the 11lb mark (measured)? thanks.

Dace

[Don Andersen]

Let's try this for size:

Struble Lake had a campground with 3>10 boats on it every day and raised 10 lb. trout. til the mid-80's Now this is no campground and only a few go there. Why, the fish shrank to <>14" or 1 lb.

You have 3 comparisons - - - anglers vs lakes.

1] the number of anglers/lake tells you absolutely diddly.

2] the number of anglers using the lake vs total fish stocks in the lake for example 800fish/angler on Beaver vs 80,000 fish/angler on Struble

3] number of anglers vs fishable surface area - compare Muir Lake > Lake Superior

By the way, SRD has increased the stocking of Struble Lake.


We have crappy fishing 'cause we put up with it. If we wanted different, we'd get it. At the Provincial Roundtable, the quality of the put and take stocked fishery in Alberta was near the top of all anglers agendas with illegal perch stocking as #2.

The only fly in the whole discussion was the retired SRD biologist and past president of the AF&G ASSS. who through enlightened fisheries management got Carson Lake from 14 lbs.> 14" and wholly supported perch stockings.


regards,


Don

[Bigtoad]

im guessing you cant answer these ?'s

I have respect for SRD and their work. I believe if your opinion was backed by enough concerned anglers who represented a sizeable portion of the license buying anglers................your plan would be entertained.

SRD manages for the entire angling population, they are not funded enough to cater to every special interest group. As a note of interest Flyfisherman make up 4 percent.

Heres another question. If SRD made a special fee for managing Trophy Trout waters? would there be enough permits sold to manage the lake...eg prevent winterkill?

Maybe you're right Chubby... I don't know.

All I can say is that I had a freaking blast in Manitoba and I know the other guys (of various skill and ability) that went with me had a hoot as well. Some days we didn't catch a lot, but other days we did, regardless, they were big and they were fun. So much fun that we all agreed we would rather catch only one or two big fish a day than a day full of small ones. It seriously was that awesome!

I truly believe that anyone who experienced fishing like I did would be as passionate as I am about making it a reality here in Alberta. It was that good. But perhaps that's not possible with so many fishermen with so few lakes that like to keep all they can. It really is too bad. :sad0125:


Dace: this is the 11lb fish, weighed on an accurate digital scale with two very unreliable witnesses :) . No pic of the scale# Didn't get a length on it but I'm guessing only 25" or so. Put a tape on one of the 8lber's we caught and it was only 23". They were phat!!!

I'm not smiling because I was just trying not to pee in my waders.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280001.jpg

Cheers.

[TyreeUM]

Maybe you're right Chubby... I don't know.

All I can say is that I had a freaking blast in Manitoba and I know the other guys (of various skill and ability) that went with me had a hoot as well. Some days we didn't catch a lot, but other days we did, regardless, they were big and they were fun. So much fun that we all agreed we would rather catch only one or two big fish a day than a day full of small ones. It seriously was that awesome!

I truly believe that anyone who experienced fishing like I did would be as passionate as I am about making it a reality here in Alberta. It was that good. But perhaps that's not possible with so many fishermen with so few lakes that like to keep all they can. It really is too bad. :sad0125:


Dace: this is the 11lb fish, weighed on an accurate digital scale with two very unreliable witnesses :) . No pic of the scale# Didn't get a length on it but I'm guessing only 25" or so. Put a tape on one of the 8lber's we caught and it was only 23". They were phat!!!

I'm not smiling because I was just trying not to pee in my waders.
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280001.jpg

Cheers.

thats a nice rainbow,
I love fat rainbows! I think the fattest 25 incher I have ever caught was just shy of 10.5...

[Alberta Bigbore]

Can you catch one of these in Alberta?
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5290025.jpg





No, but we should, only a matter of time before livewell brings some here, jks!



What about a guy like this outside of a park?
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/P5280001.jpg

Nuff said.



Hellz ya!!! On private water ..but yes!







PS - I love fishing in Manitoba and Ontario.........drool

[DuckBrat]

Funny I think had started this same discussion when I got back from Manitoba in both 2010 and 2011. Alberta has **** poor management of it's stocked trout and until people stop accepting fresh stockies as great fishing we will always have this issue. BTW, nice fish from Manitoba, looks like a Tokaryk or Patterson fish. Sorry Speck your optimism of the fishing around Hinton/Edson is overly grand. It's descent to good at best but I'd start weighing those fish with a non 80's scale. Take care.

[Speckle55]

Great example Speckle and beautiful fish! Wow. But isn't there a total C&R on Bull trout in Alberta? If there was a limit of 5 bulls of any size here would you ever catch a bull that big, regardless of how good a fishermen you were? Simply... no you wouldn't. That fish is a testament to C&R regulations. Now if we could have a few more C&R regs or a limit of one under 18" on some (even a small percentage of the 400+ stocked lakes) of our trout lakes in Alberta, perhaps we would see the potential of these lakes.

Cheers.

You still don,t get it .. the Bull Trout came from the Athabasca ..Big River if you look at the records lots of 30+ inch bulls have been caught ..its part the size of river and the genics and the feed..Jasper has a few pics of big bulls from before catch and release.. and one lake had 4 Rainbows over 20 # in the eightys because of food period so it had a advantage/no stocking since hatchery closed dieing lake..nothing to do with C & R

Walleye fishing tags = 10 people get to fish a lake is that where you are going with this C & R

example in animals Luscar sheep /artifical feed /no pressure/protected/below tree line= World Class canned hunting/pet them with one hand shoot with other

Trout ponds in Europe C & R you pay to fish /they raise till 5 lbs/then release into pond /only so many people a day can fish it you get 2 to 4 hrs per time/replace fish after 2 weeks added 10 five lbers

you could go to East of Edson RV park and catch up to 16# Rainbows in their trout pond ,,nice fat ones that jump 10 times = pay by inch

use your buddys dugout and catch and release all you want.

or go to a Big Lake like Kootenay/Arrow/Pend and go after some 20# plus Rainbows which are part of a big river..less than 7 hours from you here one rainbow from last year
53160


David:)

[Wes_G]

With all due respect.....what percentage of the overall anglers in alberta would this change serve?
What percentage of the overall angling community does the Police Lake special fishery serve?

The police lake Special fishery serves 100% of the people who fish it. You can still go there, catch nice fish and keep 1 over the size limit.... seems to serve the way it is supposed to?

[chubbdarter]

Funny I think had started this same discussion when I got back from Manitoba in both 2010 and 2011. Alberta has **** poor management of it's stocked trout and until people stop accepting fresh stockies as great fishing we will always have this issue. BTW, nice fish from Manitoba, looks like a Tokaryk or Patterson fish. Sorry Speck your optimism of the fishing around Hinton/Edson is overly grand. It's descent to good at best but I'd start weighing those fish with a non 80's scale. Take care.

with all due respect is this so called problem only going to be cured when the majority of fisherman agree with you?
When they no longer accept whats fun for them and drink your kool-aid?

Im primarillly a eye fisherman but i dont tell other anglers what should be fun for them.

Im thank full SRD looks after the majority before Special Interest groups

[chubbdarter]

The police lake Special fishery serves 100% of the people who fish it. You can still go there, catch nice fish and keep 1 over the size limit.... seems to serve the way it is supposed to?


Great to hear, I'll ice fish it this winter(under the 100 percent of people law you talk about) I really have fond memories of ice fishing there and it provided a good angling experience for many.

[TyreeUM]

with all due respect is this so called problem only going to be cured when the majority of fisherman agree with you?
When they no longer accept whats fun for them and drink your kool-aid?

Im primarillly a eye fisherman but i dont tell other anglers what should be fun for them.

Im thank full SRD looks after the majority before Special Interest groups

If what Chubb says is true, how can you really argue with that? If the majority of the people want to catch and keep small trout out of the stocked ponds, why would SRD ever change that management practice. You said it yourself, you can still catch fish like that in the parks...so if that is what you enjoy most (catching large trout), why not just head to the parks and fish?

By the way, I found a pic of that 25 inch (actually 25.5 inch) rainbow that went just under 10.5 pounds.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/picture.php?albumid=906&pictureid=4987

[chubbdarter]

If what Chubb says is true, how can you really argue with that? If the majority of the people want to catch and keep small trout out of the stocked ponds, why would SRD ever change that management practice. You said it yourself, you can still catch fish like that in the parks...so if that is what you enjoy most (catching large trout), why not just head to the parks and fish?

By the way, I found a pic of that 25 inch (actually 25.5 inch) rainbow that went just under 10.5 pounds.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/picture.php?albumid=906&pictureid=4987

thats a beauty.....we going there?
gotta leave AB for good fish..lol

[BeeGuy]

Looks like a deif-fish

That's fat. We caught some 25 and 26" average girth bows the last couple weeks and they are about 5lbs.

[Speckle55]

Funny I think had started this same discussion when I got back from Manitoba in both 2010 and 2011. Alberta has **** poor management of it's stocked trout and until people stop accepting fresh stockies as great fishing we will always have this issue. BTW, nice fish from Manitoba, looks like a Tokaryk or Patterson fish. Sorry Speck your optimism of the fishing around Hinton/Edson is overly grand. It's descent to good at best but I'd start weighing those fish with a non 80's scale. Take care.

hey Duckbrat i look after the Hinton Fish and Game fish records for the last 20 years as their fishchair and have met people from all over the province on the lakes mention, and know the guide,s.. there is a 7# 9 on board this year and it is not the biggest rainbow that i have heard caught this year here.. the scales we use here are Gov certified

the problem is you guys are 4% of Albertan Rainbow Anglers

good thing we live in a Domocratic Alberta hey

i support my Alberta fisheries people we only pay them so much and they do a good job for what we pay them

i was trying to be nice nuff said
David:sHa_shakeshout:

[Alberta Bigbore]

By the way, I found a pic of that 25 inch (actually 25.5 inch) rainbow that went just under 10.5 pounds.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/picture.php?albumid=906&pictureid=4987

oink oink....nice feeeesh

[Don Andersen]

Somehow or another people who want a fish >14" are called "Special Interest" groups.

Now if you dial the clock back only 20 years every lake in my area grew trout >5 lbs.Some to 15 lbs. Now they have been "managed down to 14". Good God - talk about Special Interest Groups screwing things up. Looks like the "Special Interest" groups have won.

Don

[TyreeUM]

Somehow or another people who want a fish >14" are called "Special Interest" groups.

Now if you dial the clock back only 20 years every lake in my area grew trout >5 lbs.Some to 15 lbs. Now they have been "managed down to 14". Good God - talk about Special Interest Groups screwing things up. Looks like the "Special Interest" groups have won.

Don

I don't think that is what anyone said. It sounds to me like the comment stated that the majority of anglers fishing stocked trout ponds/lakes would prefer to keep the fish they catch, and with heavey fishing pressure, that would make it difficult for fish in a smaller water body to reach 25 inches and 11 pounds...

[johnk]

Heading to the Parklands on June 11th for 14 nights! Yahoo! Nice fish Matt. Pybus Lake is reluctant to give up her quarry but fish like that are numerous!

[goldscud]

And the continued loss of tourism dollars continues as John and others of us looking for quality trout leave Alberta. Maybe in the future our "special interest" group will become larger and have more pull. For now, have fun out there and maybe head to Hinton.

[Faststeel]

I bet anybody here that if you ventured out to northern Alberta you will catch unlimited monster fish of all species, no one drives 8 hours to check out all the untouched lakes in northern Alberta, bet anyone here you will catch 7 pound rainbows, huge pike and huge walleye, for example i bet bistcho lake has monsters in it, obviously not many people fish it so the fish get huge up there, and who goes to wood buffalo to fish, not many people now that being said the lakes and rivers around major citys obviously get hit the hardest, it kind of sucks but not many people these days practice catch and release.

We needed to practice catch and release 20 years ago. FS

[chubbdarter]

Special.


spe·cial
   [spesh-uhl] Show IPA

adjective
1.
of a distinct or particular kind or character: a special kind of key.

2.
being a particular one; particular, individual, or certain: You'd better call the special number.

3.
pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique: the special features of a plan.

4.
having a specific or particular function, purpose, etc.: a special messenger.

5.
distinguished or different from what is ordinary or usual: a special occasion; to fix something special.


I dont think the majority of AB anglers feel they are Special. At this time I believe they are also happy with the put and take fishery.
Ive never seen a thread on here where they are asking for someone to sacifice for their gain.
Harvesting fish is not only a tradition we should keep. The act of harvesting fish also keeps a dangerous Special interest group from claiming animal cruelty
Wether your 4 percent or 40 percent we as anglers are stronger as just plain fisherman. special makes us weaker.
If SRD makes a educated decision to manage trophy lakes then i trust them that we are serving a good portion of anglers .
Many have posted they are catching quality Alberta Trout now, is there actually another problem other than SRD?

[DuckBrat]

hey Duckbrat i look after the Hinton Fish and Game fish records for the last 20 years as their fishchair and have met people from all over the province on the lakes mention, and know the guide,s.. there is a 7# 9 on board this year and it is not the biggest rainbow that i have heard caught this year here.. the scales we use here are Gov certified

the problem is you guys are 4% of Albertan Rainbow Anglers

good thing we live in a Domocratic Alberta hey

i support my Alberta fisheries people we only pay them so much and they do a good job for what we pay them

i was trying to be nice nuff said
David:sHa_shakeshout:


Dave I may have a few credentials in the world of sport fishing as well, but you don't see me rehashing the same story from the 80's in every thread (sorry I had to be the one to say it). I do agree with you that there are some good fish in the Hinton area yes, but please don't even try to compare the fishery in your area with what is in the Manitoba Parklands. There are more quality trout opportunities to be had from the lakes where this thread originated.

Sadly some of the responses here have not changed in regards to increasing quality trout fisheries. Some still see it as a something being taken away but in reality it is something being given. Just a thought, over 5 million extra dollars were brought into the area around the Manitoba Parkland Lakes last year from the anglers choosing this destination spot. The opportunities are there but if we continue to settle for less than mediocre and that is just what we will continue to get. Put and take has it's place but it's time to mix it up with more quality fishing.

I will continue to fish and enjoy the Hinton area as I have always done but you can bet when the opportunity arises I will head back to Manitoba where they had the foresight to maximize their resource. Enjoy your freshly stocked (fingerling) rainbows.

[goldscud]

I always find it interesting that folks that are so satisfied with 12" trout don't find pictures like this the least bit intriguing...right.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/fishmonger/P1000274.jpg

I agree Chub, trout are good food

[DuckBrat]

I always find it interesting that folks that are so satisfied with 12" trout don't find pictures like this the least bit intriguing...right.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y85/fishmonger/P1000274.jpg

I agree Chub, trout are good food

Wicked Fatties!

[Bigtoad]

You still don,t get it .. the Bull Trout came from the Athabasca ..Big River if you look at the records lots of 30+ inch bulls have been caught ..its part the size of river and the genics and the feed..Jasper has a few pics of big bulls from before catch and release.. and one lake had 4 Rainbows over 20 # in the eightys because of food period so it had a advantage/no stocking since hatchery closed dieing lake..nothing to do with C & R
Speckle, I think it is still you who don't get what I'm trying to say here. I'm saying that SRD isn't doing a good job managing the stocked trout lakes in Alberta. I realize that they are underfunded, understaffed, overworked, and have to walk up hills both ways to work. But that doesn't mean they are doing a good job at what they should be doing.

So, because we are talking about SRD, discussions of your precision parks and stories of Maligne Lake are not helpful since SRD does not manage those. Also, discussion of what grows in the rivers of Alberta isn't important to this discussion either because my issue (as I've stated already) isn't SRD's stance on rivers in Alberta, but on the stocked trout lakes. So if you have anything to add to the discussion on stocked trout lakes in Alberta managed by SRD then please, we are all ears.

Also, you keep bringing up big fish caught by your fish and game club but how many of those are brood stock? Broods aren't an indication of the health of a fishery, just the health of a VERY busy stocking program....

Regardless, the few fish over 5lbs that are caught by anglers around the Hinton area still doesn't come close to what I experienced in the Parkland.


Walleye fishing tags = 10 people get to fish a lake is that where you are going with this C & R

example in animals Luscar sheep /artifical feed /no pressure/protected/below tree line= World Class canned hunting/pet them with one hand shoot with other

Trout ponds in Europe C & R you pay to fish /they raise till 5 lbs/then release into pond /only so many people a day can fish it you get 2 to 4 hrs per time/replace fish after 2 weeks added 10 five lbers

you could go to East of Edson RV park and catch up to 16# Rainbows in their trout pond ,,nice fat ones that jump 10 times = pay by inch

use your buddys dugout and catch and release all you want.

or go to a Big Lake like Kootenay/Arrow/Pend and go after some 20# plus Rainbows which are part of a big river..less than 7 hours from you here one rainbow from last year


Conspiracy theory much? I'm not talking about making all 400+ stocked lakes in Alberta C&R, geese, relax a bit Speckle. The sky is not falling!

I'm saying (and I've said) I want
1) SRD to do a better job with some of the limited harvest lakes they do have going by reducing stocking #'s
2) make all currently aerated lakes in Alberta either C&R or 1 under 18".
3) add 2-3 more quality, aerated lakes into each major region of Alberta.
4) add some diversity to groupings of lakes by adding some different species of trout together (ie. put some browns/rainbow, browns/brookies, all 3, maybe some tigers too)

Pretty simple requests really that would go a long way to improving the quality trout fishing in Alberta without taking away anyone's limit of 5 fingerlings from the hundreds of stocked ponds. (well, I guess while I'm at it I'd add to my list that the limit of 5 be moved to a limit of 3 but now I'm really dreaming).

Cheers.

[Bigtoad]

I dont think the majority of AB anglers feel they are Special. At this time I believe they are also happy with the put and take fishery. Ive never seen a thread on here where they are asking for someone to sacifice for their gain.
It's not that I feel special Chubb or feel that I should get what I want and everyone else needs to sacrifice, it's that I feel the quality trout fishing in lakes in Alberta is just so astoundingly unspecial.



Harvesting fish is not only a tradition we should keep. The act of harvesting fish also keeps a dangerous Special interest group from claiming animal cruelty
Not talking about all 400+ lakes Chubb. You won't have to cut off your pickeral rig from the stocked pond where you like keeping your 5 fish. There is a large portion of the fishing population that enjoy that type of fishing and I'm not going to argue with that. Have at it. Take 350 of the lakes if you like. Just leave us the other 50 and we'll be good:)


special makes us weaker.
Really Chubb? What country are you living in? You can't be serious...


Many have posted they are catching quality Alberta Trout now, is there actually another problem other than SRD?
As I mentioned to Speckle on a previous post, how many of these fish we are seeing (and there haven't been that many anyway) are from a national park (SRD doesn't control the park regs), a river (we're talking about stocked lakes here not rivers), or are brood stock which don't show the health of a fishery at all.

Take those out and you would be left with a small handful of good trout from lakes in this province. I would also suspect most would come from the handful of decently managed trout lakes in the province with special regs like Muir or Bullshead or they are quite remote lakes which don't get much pressure.

Minus those from the equation and you get a very, very, very small number of quality fish from the more than 400 stocked lakes in this province; even from the lakes that are designated "quality" lakes.

I realize that SRD is stretched to the max, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing a good job of the quality stocked lakes. Doing "their best" and doing a good job are different. They might be doing the first, but they sure as hell aren't doing the second.

Cheers.

[DuckBrat]

Mr Toad you speak well, very informative and diplomatic. I too love the Parklands fishery in Manitoba. There is a growing number of folks who believe in the quality fishing experience here in Alberta. We may soon see some action/results for our work. Stay tuned and stay positive!

[chubbdarter]

It's not that I feel special Chubb or feel that I should get what I want and everyone else needs to sacrifice, it's that I feel the quality trout fishing in lakes in Alberta is just so astoundingly unspecial.



Not talking about all 400+ lakes Chubb. You won't have to cut off your pickeral rig from the stocked pond where you like keeping your 5 fish. There is a large portion of the fishing population that enjoy that type of fishing and I'm not going to argue with that. Have at it. Take 350 of the lakes if you like. Just leave us the other 50 and we'll be good:)


Really Chubb? What country are you living in? You can't be serious...


As I mentioned to Speckle on a previous post, how many of these fish we are seeing (and there haven't been that many anyway) are from a national park (SRD doesn't control the park regs), a river (we're talking about stocked lakes here not rivers), or are brood stock which don't show the health of a fishery at all.

Take those out and you would be left with a small handful of good trout from lakes in this province. I would also suspect most would come from the handful of decently managed trout lakes in the province with special regs like Muir or Bullshead or they are quite remote lakes which don't get much pressure.

Minus those from the equation and you get a very, very, very small number of quality fish from the more than 400 stocked lakes in this province; even from the lakes that are designated "quality" lakes.

I realize that SRD is stretched to the max, but that doesn't change the fact that they aren't doing a good job of the quality stocked lakes. Doing "their best" and doing a good job are different. They might be doing the first, but they sure as hell aren't doing the second.

Cheers.

first i dont own a pickeral rig

Im first and foremost I am eye fisherman. But i repsect the high volumne of stocked trout put and take users. Their sheer numbers dictate the direction SRD must travel. Id love to see Alberta maintain all walleye waters into trophy fisheries. The majority of license buying anglers would not agree or accept what i want. In fact not one water body in the south is managed to my personal desires. Why because im a small percentage and respect the majorities wishes. Therefore i enjoy what we have and fish selective waters that provide the results i want, or i travel.

I wish all of you the very best in getting what you want from the alberta waters.

[saskfly]

My take on Trout fishing in Western Canada:

If you want Big trout and lots of them with easy angler access and lakes that don't need to be kept secret because of proper management and restrictions...Head to Manitoba.

If you want to do some of the best stream fishing for Cold Water species with easy angler access that don't need to be kept a secret because of proper management...head to the Alberta Foothills

If you want to Fish in fabled waters steeped in history for trout, salmon and steelhead with easy angler access that don't need to be kept a secret because of proper management and regulations....Go to B.C.

Sure we all have our secret spots. My point is that truly good fisheries never stay a secret and usually can remain truly great if there is proper management. If you look at Alberta streams such as the Bow and the Crow...they have maintained sufficiently good fishing with years of praise and acclaim through proper management. (As a side not stocked lakes are generally done so to remove angler pressure from native stocks...) so maybe the stocked lakes may not be the greatest for quality but perhaps they are playing their role...

Does Alberta have some big trout factories? you bet...

Does Alberta have some fisheries which have declined in the numbers of large fish being caught out of them? You bet...

The solution gentleman is regulations and management. The same way Wildlife Biologists use hunters to regulate wildlife populations Fisheries Biologists need to adjust regulations to maintain the health of a our fisheries by increasing/decreasing/restricting angler usage and quotas.

I believe that certain bodies of water that have the potential to grow truly large trout need to be more properly regulated and managed in order to diversify angling opportunities in Alberta. The Parkland region of Manitoba is just one small piece of an extremely diverse area to fish...

Food For Thought
Jeff

[Bigtoad]

Hey Chubb,
just curious, but why is this your response to a recent petition on making a pike lake C&R yet in the next breath you are giving the quality trout initiative such a hard time?

Doesn't this kind of make you a bit "special" too?

Most EXCELLENT....keep up the good work.

At times it will seem like your spinning your wheels
At times it will appear hopeless
At times you will ask" Why do i bother?"
Some times you will miss a few fishing days.

But the fish thank you and even thought 99% of fisherman wont thank you, they will benifit from your work.

thank you for your efforts

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a C&R fishery for pike, even though I don't live there or fish for pike much, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me to praise the one and discourage the other....:sEm_oops2:

I don't get it.

[TyreeUM]

Hey Chubb,
just curious, but why is this your response to a recent petition on making a pike lake C&R yet in the next breath you are giving the quality trout initiative such a hard time?

Doesn't this kind of make you a bit "special" too?



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a C&R fishery for pike, even though I don't live there or fish for pike much, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me to praise the one and discourage the other....:sEm_oops2:

I don't get it.
Maybe...
Pike=native fish
Trout lake = put and take fishery of non-native fish satisfying a large bunch of predominantly catch and keep fisherman?

As a side note, I travel to Alberta to trout fish...

[Doc]

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...

Speckle55 wrote that in Europe they grow trout to five pounds and then stock them in ponds where you can pay to catch them. Well, in Manitoba they stock fingerlings and the trout grow to massive sizes well over 5lbs because the lake is managed for this outcome and all you need is a fishing license. Why would anyone want to pay to catch a trout from a private operator when the government can get the same outcome without stocking Brood's?

Speckle continues to talk about the records he keeps, most of the impressive ones come from the 80's. Speck, that's over 20 years ago! You also go on to state "there is a 7# 9 on board this year". One? Depending on the day and skill level of the angler, you can catch 4, 5, 12 of those in one day on any number of lakes in the Parklands of Manitoba.

Oh and here's a quote from Speck "the problem is you guys are 4% of Albertan Rainbow Anglers". Please post the study you got this number from, I want to read it.

Now Chubbdarter states "Im thank full SRD looks after the majority before Special Interest groups". Well it was these so called special interest groups that created Muir Lake. Funny how every day at Muir is busy and on the weekends, Muir's parking lot is packed while the other stocked lakes in the area are moderately busy to slow. Does that mean the small special interest group is fishing 7 days a week, every week, all season? Ever wonder why Muir is so busy? It's not because all the trout fishermen are wanting to catch 12 inch trout, that's for sure. Muir is one of the most productive stocked fisheries in Alberta right now and the proof is in the traffic. But this was not ASRD's doing. This was four fishing clubs under the umbrella of FESA (a special interest group). It's due to the success of fisheries like Muir that the Quality Lakes Initiative got started. But how does Muir compare to the fisheries in the Parklands region of Manitoba? A muir shadow of what Manitoba has to offer. You like that... muir shadow? I thought it was pretty clever :sign0066:

Also, it was special interest groups that worked to turn our easter slope streams to C&R. Special interest groups sometimes sees beyond their own fork at the bigger picture.

Cheers,
Doc

PS. I should point out that ASRD did work closely with FESA and was both helpful and supportive. The funds for Muir Lake were all generated via fundraising with the exception of trout stocking which is paid for every year by the Government of Alberta.

[Bhflyfisher]

Muir wont last very long. The increasing pressure will get to it.

[chubbdarter]

Hey Chubb,
just curious, but why is this your response to a recent petition on making a pike lake C&R yet in the next breath you are giving the quality trout initiative such a hard time?

Doesn't this kind of make you a bit "special" too?



Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a C&R fishery for pike, even though I don't live there or fish for pike much, but it seems a bit hypocritical to me to praise the one and discourage the other....:sEm_oops2:

I don't get it.

Im always supportive of anyone trying to help a natural fishery recover.
In MOST cases the limits are changed but ALL angling techniques are still allowed, making it rather UNspecial.

If i honestly thought your purposals had the wishes of the majority of the angling public behind them...i would accept the democratic process.
If money was no object we all could have what we want.

I also encouraged the other thread because he has openly posted he is collecting the info needed to back his purposal. Contacting sources for scientific evidence to back his purposal. In my opinion this is proper conduct.

Maybe i should clarify.....im not against your idea if its backed by facts of demand. Prove to me that this is manageable with such limited funding and large angler base. Its sad but SRD is very limited in funding and not every 4 percent group gets what they want

thanks

[Doc]

Muir wont last very long. The increasing pressure will get to it.

As long as we have special regs and special interest groups involved in Muir Lake, it will be just fine. In my opinion, we need the added pressure. I believe it's currently over stocked and to see the size of trout get much bigger than 24 inches, we need a little thinning out.

[chubbdarter]

As long as we have special regs and special interest groups involved in Muir Lake, it will be just fine. In my opinion, we need the added pressure. I believe it's currently over stocked and to see the size of trout get much bigger than 24 inches, we need a little thinning out.

if the public demands the creation of more types of fisheries like that and facts are shown....then NO one can dispute the need for the peoples wishes.

i wish you the very best

[Speckle55]

Doc you forget in Manitoba there are how many people on your C & R lake and in Europe there are 300 per day every day of the week.. and your lake here in Alberta can get how many anglers .. those fish will be dead in a month with 300 anglers per day.. 2011 last time i went to Koot i got 4 bulls and 3 bows ..my biggest bull 8#1 and biggest Rainbow was 8#4 with a chance at a 25 # Bull and a 30# Rainbow =Big Lake = Big Fish

Differn,t food chain = river in river out

just saying

Scienctific Angler
Food for Thought
David:)

[Kyle]

Doc you forget in Manitoba there are how many people on your C & R lake and in Europe there are 300 per day every day of the week.. and your lake here in Alberta can get how many anglers .. those fish will be dead in a month with 300 anglers per day.. 2011 last time i went to Koot i got 4 bulls and 3 bows ..my biggest bull 8#1 and biggest Rainbow was 8#4 with a chance at a 25 # Bull and a 30# Rainbow =Big Lake = Big Fish

Differn,t food chain = river in river out

just saying

Scienctific Angler
Food for Thought
David:)

What the hell does kootenay lake have to do with this thread? You just don't seem to understand what everyone is telling you. Too bad...keep living in the 80s with your stringers of dead trout.

[Doc]

Doc you forget in Manitoba there are how many people on your C & R lake and in Europe there are 300 per day every day of the week.. and your lake here in Alberta can get how many anglers .. those fish will be dead in a month with 300 anglers per day.. 2011 last time i went to Koot i got 4 bulls and 3 bows ..my biggest bull 8#1 and biggest Rainbow was 8#4 with a chance at a 25 # Bull and a 30# Rainbow =Big Lake = Big Fish

Differn,t food chain = river in river out

just saying

Scienctific Angler
Food for Thought
David:)

Speck, if you can have a lake like Muir that gives high catch rates and trout up to 24 inches with just some special regs, two aerators and a guess at how many trout should be stocked each year, imagine what could be done with special regs, some aerators and the studies needed to eliminate the guessing game. Imagine the lake stocked to produce trout to it's highest potential. Imagine doing that to 20 lakes in Alberta.

[Speckle55]

Doc we have a lake here(Muskiki) that is a 40 cm limit Cutthroat lake(limit one) ..two years ago i spent 5 days there in the summer camping fishing and i got one legal fish per day fishing hard.. and there was 30 anglers from belly boats flyanglers to shore fishing and fly casting from shore and boats .. they got 3 legal fish in total.. now i am not saying that a angler could not come and catch 4 or 5 fish per day but you would be a 10% of anglers..

7 years before i caught with my boys 81 or 83 Brook Trout in one afternoon fishing then next full day and the next morning and 11 were around 2 # it was a C & K lake then no special interest

you do the math
here's one from this year a Brookie
53456


David:)

[chubbdarter]

You guys may not believe me but im kinda on your side

I have a thread on circle hooks and my hopes are that the results are positive. Positive in a way the baitfishers can be part of a quality fishery rather than be on the outside with ill feelings. This why i believe we are stronger as fisherman rather than special fisherman.

I believe there is many non flyfisherman who desire a quality fishery and are not strictly meat fisherman.

[TyreeUM]

Speck, if you can have a lake like Muir that gives high catch rates and trout up to 24 inches with just some special regs, two aerators and a guess at how many trout should be stocked each year, imagine what could be done with special regs, some aerators and the studies needed to eliminate the guessing game. Imagine the lake stocked to produce trout to it's highest potential. Imagine doing that to 20 lakes in Alberta.

Would you justify spending the money to aerate 20 new lakes and conduct studies to determine carrying capacity based on maximum growth potential when a new thread each day is posted about the lack of resources to conduct the management studies required for streams, rivers, and lakes with native fish? I fish trout almost exclusively and I hear you, I love catching big trout. You do have some absolutely amazing fishing for native species of trout in your province, fishing I have driven 8 plus hours just for a weekend of trout fishing in the mountains. With all the threads on this forum complaining about the abilities of SRD, I would say this one ranks well behind complaints such as stronger enforcement and protection of native fish...

[Speckle55]

Speck, if you can have a lake like Muir that gives high catch rates and trout up to 24 inches with just some special regs, two aerators and a guess at how many trout should be stocked each year, imagine what could be done with special regs, some aerators and the studies needed to eliminate the guessing game. Imagine the lake stocked to produce trout to it's highest potential. Imagine doing that to 20 lakes in Alberta.
i would rather that you get a trout pond /dugout and catch your 25 inches and leave the lake for tha 25000 anglers in southern alberta to fish the Catch and Keep lake that they are happy doing now.. now you and Big Toad and Don and others how many are YOU GUYS ..:thinking-006:

I represent my 530 club members that are catch and keep and 20 of us are EXTREME SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP that think big is the way to go

[Doc]

Doc we have a lake here(Muskiki) that is a 40 cm limit Cutthroat lake(limit one) ..two years ago i spent 5 days there in the summer camping fishing and i got one legal fish per day fishing hard.. and there was 30 anglers from belly boats flyanglers to shore fishing and fly casting from shore and boats .. they got 3 legal fish in total.. now i am not saying that a angler could not come and catch 4 or 5 fish per day but you would be a 10% of anglers..

7 years before i caught with my boys 81 or 83 Brook Trout in one afternoon fishing then next full day and the next morning and 11 were around 2 # it was a C & K lake then no special interest

you do the math
here's one from this year a Brookie
53456


David:)

David, that's exactly why we need the lakes managed properly. The lake is not being managed to produce it's best. How much biomass is in the lake? How much pressure does the lake receive? How much mortality is there in the lake due to water conditions, predators and anglers? Is the lake being stocked accordingly or do the regulations enhance the fishery or hurt the fishery? This is what Manitoba is looking at when they manage their fisheries in the Parklands.

I would rather catch one trout per day, any size, knowing there's a chance at a 10lb trout then to catch 50 trout in a day knowing there is nothing over three pounds. But, I would rather catch 2 or 3 trophies and a bunch of different sizes in a day which can only happen with proper management.

[TyreeUM]

on a side note, if the province is choosing to manage trout as "put and take", you can't really say they aren't managing these lakes properly...they are just not managing them the way you want them to be managed, right?

[Speckle55]

Also we have two lake up here with lots of 25 inch fish Swan and Millers now not all angler can catch but i saw my buddy with two 7# Rainbows this year in back of his truck.. and if you look at post on Millers you can see them trying to spawn..lots of 5 # plus bows.. both are areated and the growth potencial has been increased,, no special regs..

you should check with your Master Angler in your area as to where the 24 inch or better are.. maybe you need to come up here and fish( 5 hours )there is a 12# brown in Millers and 7# Rainbows but you will have match your skills with them and they have seen lots of hooks

Also what are the angler hours on that Manitoba Lake (you said no one was there)
What are the Angler hour on most Alberta Lake's

if of 30 people 3 caught fish on Muskiki how many will be back to fish again

you do the math:thinking-006:

we need lake's too fish we have so few and you can do catch and release on all lakes.. most lakes in my area have produced 5 # plus Rainbow and are catch and keep..

David

[Doc]

Would you justify spending the money to aerate 20 new lakes and conduct studies to determine carrying capacity based on maximum growth potential when a new thread each day is posted about the lack of resources to conduct the management studies required for streams, rivers, and lakes with native fish? I fish trout almost exclusively and I hear you, I love catching big trout. You do have some absolutely amazing fishing for native species of trout in your province, fishing I have driven 8 plus hours just for a weekend of trout fishing in the mountains. With all the threads on this forum complaining about the abilities of SRD, I would say this one ranks well behind complaints such as stronger enforcement and protection of native fish...

Ok, let's look at costs and let's use Chickakoo as it winterkills almost every year. In 2012 they stocked 8000 rainbows and 4000 brookies. That's 12,000 trout at approx $1 per trout to raise & stock. $12,000 right? An aerator costs approx $2500 per winter to run. Now if we change the regs on that lake to say keep one over 50cm per day (like Muir). We could easily get away with stocking 5000 trout per year. So $12,000 -2500= $9500-$5000 that leaves $4500 to purchase the aerator in the first year and then can go towards studies in future years. Works for me.

[Doc]

on a side note, if the province is choosing to manage trout as "put and take", you can't really say they aren't managing these lakes properly...they are just not managing them the way you want them to be managed, right?

I think we all just want them to be managed to the best of our gov'ts ability. Weather that be P&T or C&R. If we did anything but at our jobs we'd all be fired.

[chubbdarter]

Doc.....ive always respected your thoughts

so now i ask you to stop biting your tongue and say what the problem is.

Backed with facts working with SRD is very productive down here

You have the data and vast technical info. what is the real problem getting the changes your group wants?

[Doc]

Also we have two lake up here with lots of 25 inch fish Swan and Millers now not all angler can catch but i saw my buddy with two 7# Rainbows this year in back of his truck.. and if you look at post on Millers you can see them trying to spawn..lots of 5 # plus bows.. both are areated and the growth potencial has been increased,, no special regs..

Speck, your idea of lots and big are different than mine. I do fish Swan and Millers. One large fish doesn't make a great fishery. And 5lb fish doesn't get me excited. Swan is a shadow of the fishery it used to be, to many lunkers getting eaten over the winter. Millers is fun but doesn't even hold a candle to the Parklands.


Also what are the angler hours on that Manitoba Lake (you said no one was there)
What are the Angler hour on most Alberta Lake's

I never mentioned anything about the number of anglers.


we need lake's too fish we have so few and you can do catch and release on all lakes.. most lakes in my area have produced 5 # plus Rainbow and are catch and keep..

Again, 5lb trout are ok but not overly exciting.

[Doc]

Doc.....ive always respected your thoughts

so now i ask you to stop biting your tongue and say what the problem is.

Backed with facts working with SRD is very productive down here

You have the data and vast technical info. what is the real problem getting the changes your group wants?

Our biggest problem? We're Canadian and don't demand the absolute most from our tax dollars. We need a lesson from our American cousins to the south.

Next problem? F&W is one of the lowest priorities to our provincial government. And when put into the grand scheme of things, after health care, education, big industry, seniors, the disabled... maybe it should be. Now, taking that into consideration, the interest from most parties involved at the round table meetings with ASRD has shown a lot of interest in our stillwater stocked fisheries and just getting a quality lake initiative is a big step. Better quality lakes will be coming folks, it's just a matter of time. Why? Squeaky wheel gets the grease. How much time, is the question.

[CF8]

Our biggest problem? We're Canadian and don't demand the absolute most from our tax dollars. We need a lesson from our American cousins to the south.

Next problem? F&W is one of the lowest priorities to our provincial government. And when put into the grand scheme of things, after health care, education, big industry, seniors, the disabled... maybe it should be. Now, taking that into consideration, the interest from most parties involved at the round table meetings with ASRD has shown a lot of interest in our stillwater stocked fisheries and just getting a quality lake initiative is a big step. Better quality lakes will be coming folks, it's just a matter of time. Why? Squeaky wheel gets the grease. How much time, is the question.

Amen!

[Speckle55]

There is all ready quality lakes here if you look you don,t need to go to Manitoba.. there is a few right here in my area with 50 cm limit and one fish you can keep.. but most people don,t go there for that reason.. and Muskiki was a good fisheries now no one goes there hardly except experinced anglers as the cutthroat are only stocked 2500 every 2 years and only one can be kept over 40 cm..

we have tags for walleye now? next rainbows yep keep pushing

pretty soon it will be like Europe the only place you can keep fish will be private Trout Lakes or ponds and you will have to pay to go to them ..yep just keep pushing.

do you belong to PETA? can,t kill a fish

Alberta Gov:thinking-006: hmmmm if we go C & R we can cut our budget in half and release our CO officers and Bio's as no one can keep!!!

Food for Thought
David

[Doc]

There is all ready quality lakes here if you look you don,t need to go to Manitoba.. there is a few right here in my area with 50 cm limit and one fish you can keep.. but most people don,t go there for that reason.. and Muskiki was a good fisheries now no one goes there hardly except experinced anglers as the cutthroat are only stocked 2500 every 2 years and only one can be kept over 40 cm..

we have tags for walleye now? next rainbows yep keep pushing

pretty soon it will be like Europe the only place you can keep fish will be private Trout Lakes or ponds and you will have to pay to go to them ..yep just keep pushing.

do you belong to PETA? can,t kill a fish

Alberta Gov:thinking-006: hmmmm if we go C & R we can cut our budget in half and release our CO officers and Bio's as no one can keep!!!

Food for Thought
David

The sky is falling, the sky is falling! David, your post is ridiculous!!!

Yes, there are quality lakes, and these quality lakes are great fisheries. But they are not incredible fisheries. So plain & simple, yes, we do need to go to Manitoba. Soon all lakes will be C&R like Europe? Really? Really? I've not heard one person ask to have every stocked lake turned into a C&R lake. What I have heard is anglers that would like a small percentage (5-10%) of current stocked trout lakes turned into quality lakes where they are managed for maximum trout growth. I'm sure some regs would need to be changed to C&R to make that happen but I'm also sure you would need some retention in many other lakes to make that happen. Why are you so afraid to look past your own fork to see the bigger picture? Not every fishery has to be catch & kill. We are not PETA or a bunch of Hitler's, we're not trying to stop you from eating a fish. We are simple trying to get a small percentage of trout fisheries in Alberta that can offer the incredible fishing that you can find in other provinces. That way we can stay in Alberta and spend our hard earned money here instead of going else where. Maybe even bring some anglers from elsewhere here because of these fisheries. We have it with the Bow, the Crowsnest, and our eastslope fisheries like the Ram. It drives tourism to Alberta and offers us some incredible stream fishing (yes with special regs like C&R) so let's do the same thing with some of our stocked lakes.

I find it quite amusing that those that have looked past their fork with visions of greatness have always met resistance by those with visions of mediocre. So glad Barry Mitchell and the central chapter of Trout Unlimited didn't give up on our C&R east slope streams back in the day. Just imagine how poor those streams would have been today.

[Bigtoad]

on a side note, if the province is choosing to manage trout as "put and take", you can't really say they aren't managing these lakes properly...they are just not managing them the way you want them to be managed, right?

Well Tyree, there are 400+ lakes that the gov't manages as put and take, which is fine and dandy. However, SRD found that there was a growing interest from fishermen for quality stocked lakes in the province (which anecdotally can be seen at the parking lots of Muir, Bullshead, Beaver, etc) so SRD started the "quality" stocked lakes program which includes aerating. What they have forgotten in their initiative is 1) to stop stocking them like put and take fisheries with 1000's of fish, and 2) to put more strict regs on anything worth aerating instead of 5 of any size (ex. Swan Lake, Birch Lake, Mitchell Lake, etc)

SRD have done the studies and realized there needs to be more quality stocked lakes in the province to meet angler demand, they just keep treating many of the lakes they think are "quality" like they are still a put and take fishery. And so they don't get much better results than a put and take. And here lies the frustration.

Cheers.

[Bigtoad]

Also we have two lake up here with lots of 25 inch fish Swan and Millers now not all angler can catch but i saw my buddy with two 7# Rainbows this year in back of his truck.. a

Sorry Speckle, but there are no longer "lots" of 25 inch fish in Swan, and your buddy keeping two of them is a prime example of why there isn't. The quality of Swan has tanked in only a couple of years from increased pressure and loose regs. Your buddy took home 14lbs of fish in one day. No lake that size, regardless of fertility, can sustain a harvest like that when you think about the pressure Swan now receives. Had your friend had an even better day, he could have kept 7lbs x 5 fish = 35lbs of fish in one day. One guy could do that in one day. Start doing the math and let's ask ourselves why there aren't a lot of big fish left...

Friends of mine got back two weeks ago from a weekend there and although they caught lots of fish (part of the problem? Yup.) they didn't catch anything over 22". This has been my experience here as well for the past 2-3 years. Now those same friends also just got back from Manitoba and caught several 6-8lbs fish a day each. So I'm thinking it's not about angler skill since it was the same people, and I don't think it's because big fish in Alberta are smarter, but perhaps it is because the stocking numbers in Manitoba allow the fish to grow large and the strict regulations of C&R or one UNDER 18" keep the big fish in the lake instead of in someone's freezer. Perhaps?

Yikes.

[Speckle55]

Hey guys i just saw were they are releasing Hens into Tokaryk Lake and others :thinking-006:


And for your info they allready have 6 Trout ponds/lakes ..pay and catch big rainbows in Manitoba

Also some of those lake's have BC strain Rainbows ..


we will not be doing that in Alberta we have a our Athabasca Rainbow endangered in my area..

Last year a 26 inch 9 # from Swan wow you don,t even fish it much and you know.. every year year classes get bigger fact of nature.. the locals know and don,t say much

most Rainbows over 5# are in the last years of life in Alberta

there would need to be studies to show which lake is the most fertile (eurtropic/periphery) like Millers / Swan and then won,t die from high water temp or a bloom even if areated


so lets see if the 7# are going to die the next year or two whats wrong with taking them home..

every year that a stock fish lives about 30 % of that year class die (natural)
so you do the math by year 6 how many left? of a 1000 fish

David:)

[Speckle55]

Sorry Speckle, but there are no longer "lots" of 25 inch fish in Swan, and your buddy keeping two of them is a prime example of why there isn't. The quality of Swan has tanked in only a couple of years from increased pressure and loose regs. Your buddy took home 14lbs of fish in one day. No lake that size, regardless of fertility, can sustain a harvest like that when you think about the pressure Swan now receives. Had your friend had an even better day, he could have kept 7lbs x 5 fish = 35lbs of fish in one day. One guy could do that in one day. Start doing the math and let's ask ourselves why there aren't a lot of big fish left...

Friends of mine got back two weeks ago from a weekend there and although they caught lots of fish (part of the problem? Yup.) they didn't catch anything over 22". This has been my experience here as well for the past 2-3 years. Now those same friends also just got back from Manitoba and caught several 6-8lbs fish a day each. So I'm thinking it's not about angler skill since it was the same people, and I don't think it's because big fish in Alberta are smarter, but perhaps it is because the stocking numbers in Manitoba allow the fish to grow large and the strict regulations of C&R or one UNDER 18" keep the big fish in the lake instead of in someone's freezer. Perhaps?

Yikes.

they were there this spring swimming in shallows trying to false spawn:)

[HunterDave]

If "Quality" Fisheries in Alberta are working so well why was a 12 hour trip to Manitoba necessary.......besides tiger trout? As a proponent of "Quality" Fisheries you'd think that you would have driven to Police, Bullshead, Muir, etc..........

If you don't fish the existing "Quality" lakes then why would you whine about the fish not being big enough in the lakes that you don't even fish?

PS Although I live in close proximity to Muir Lake I have never fished it. What for? I have no problem finding +18" rainbow trout in numerous other lakes in the area. I prefer -14" ones to eat but...........

[Don Andersen]

Spec..

In lots of ways I agree with you. I drive by Struble Lake every now and then. Nobody is there, same @ other local lakes. All these lakes raised 5>18 lb. fish which now raise them to 1 lb. @ best. Anglers vote with their feet.
All we can hope for is SRD finally figures out that they are providing what few want. What I'd really like to see is 100 anglers/day show up @ Struble and kill a sack full.- make that a pick box full. Then the lake may have enough groceries to provide larger fish. Still, it humors me a lot that the only boat on the lake is a "party boat". Spec... Please OH Please invite about 1,000 of your closest friends and kill some of the over-stocked fish.


Hunter...

Quality Lake fishery means just that. To this point, SRD has been incapable of providing a sustainable Quality fishery. Few lakes managed as Quality are even close to the 10% over 50 cm. mark. Others that were are no longer.

And like a host of people here, it just ****es me off that I have to drive 8>12 hours to catch fish that were 15>30 minutes away.


regards,


Don

[Speckle55]

What the hell does kootenay lake have to do with this thread? You just don't seem to understand what everyone is telling you. Too bad...keep living in the 80s with your stringers of dead trout.


Kootenay lake was April 2011 and they are pic in my avatar.. and i do my research before i fish a lake ..

Those lake's(Manitoba do your research) had Hens released into in 2009 and the strain of Rainbows stocked is a BC strain..

Phyllis Lake had a 15# caught last year 30.5 inches ..right here in Alberta WOW it must have grown that big in one year:sHa_sarcasticlol:

David:)

[HunterDave]

Now Chubbdarter states "Im thank full SRD looks after the majority before Special Interest groups". Well it was these so called special interest groups that created Muir Lake. Funny how every day at Muir is busy and on the weekends, Muir's parking lot is packed while the other stocked lakes in the area are moderately busy to slow. Does that mean the small special interest group is fishing 7 days a week, every week, all season? Ever wonder why Muir is so busy? It's not because all the trout fishermen are wanting to catch 12 inch trout, that's for sure. Muir is one of the most productive stocked fisheries in Alberta right now and the proof is in the traffic.

Doc, You make it sound like there are a thousand vehicles at Muir Lake every weekend. The parking lot is what.......an acre large? :lol: Muir Lake is a "special" lake for "special" people and the same small group of fishermen fish it. None of the locals around here fish it. Why would we, there are plenty of trout lakes in the area that are "moderately busy to slow" that produce the same size trout. :confused0024:

".....one of the most productive stocked fisheries in Alberta right now......." pfffst.......I doubt that. :rolleye2:

[Bigtoad]

[/B]

Phyllis Lake had a 15# caught last year 30.5 inches ..right here in Alberta WOW it must have grown that big in one year:sHa_sarcasticlol:

David:)

Speckle, that's a released brooder, not a fish grown in Phyllis. As I said before, that doesn't show the health of the lake nor quality of SRD management but is more indicative of a very healthy and overambitious stocking program. :)

The fact that it made a guy $300 bucks and winner of the Rainbow trout of the year in Alberta in the Alberta Outdoorsmen is laughable.

[HunterDave]

Hunter...

Quality Lake fishery means just that. To this point, SRD has been incapable of providing a sustainable Quality fishery. Few lakes managed as Quality are even close to the 10% over 50 cm. mark. Others that were are no longer.

And like a host of people here, it just ****es me off that I have to drive 8>12 hours to catch fish that were 15>30 minutes away.


regards,


Don

Then why do you fellas want to create more "Quality" fisheries then if you say that they aren't working? :budo: It seems to me that you should be concentrating on fixing what you already have before you suggest messing with anything else.

The greatest myth ever used by you fellas is that there are no +50cm trout in the area other than in the "quality" fishery lakes. :rolleye2:

[Speckle55]

Speckle, that's a released brooder, not a fish grown in Phyllis. As I said before, that doesn't show the health of the lake nor quality of SRD management but is more indicative of a very healthy and overambitious stocking program. :)

The fact that it made a guy $300 bucks and winner of the Rainbow trout of the year in Alberta in the Alberta Outdoorsmen is laughable.

They did the same in Manitoba .. and those Parkland Lakes they released brooder hens in 2009.. and now you are toasting them as Quality Lakes

I did 15 minutes of research i hope people do theirs

Food for Thought
David:)

[Bigtoad]

Then why do you fellas want to create more "Quality" fisheries then if you say that they aren't working? :budo: It seems to me that you should be concentrating on fixing what you already have before you suggest messing with anything else.

If you've read through the thread Dave, you'll see that the discussion mostly has not been about creating a lot more quality lakes but about the poor job SRD is doing on most (not all) of the ones it currently has.
- Too many stocked fish and
- Too loose of regs on some of the lakes which are aerated yet still have a limit of 5 of any size.


The greatest myth ever used by you fellas is that there are no +50cm trout in the area other than in the "quality" fishery lakes. :rolleye2:

If you're catching big fish in your area Dave, then I'm happy for you. Especially because I know you'll put them back. However, in the Central Alberta area there aren't a lot of lakes that will put up big fish naturally. Nothing close to what I experienced in Manitoba. Nothing at all.

And maybe the fishing where you're at is good, but I guarantee you, the fishing is nothing compared to what a properly managed lake would be like. "Properly" managed, different than "currently" managed.

Cheers.

[Saltmania]

5 years ago Swan Lake was like this lake in Manitoba. There was no guarantee of big fish and you might go all day without one, but if you could find them and find what they were eating, you had a really good chance of catching a monster fish. However, you'd be lucky to catch anything over 22" in Swan right now.


This is simply not true. I rarely go there without catching at least some 22+" trout. Conversely, I hardly ever catch smaller than 17" at that lake. Most seem to be in the respectable 18-20" range. I've fished there regularly these last two years and this is my experience for what it's worth.

Most of your posts seem to like beating this horse to death bigtoad and it's starting to sound like a broken record, valid or not. When I started reading this thread I actually thought it was going to be about the "fun in Manitoba" Silly me.

[Bigtoad]

They did the same in Manitoba .. and those Parkland Lakes they released brooder hens in 2009.. and now you are toasting them as Quality Lakes

I did 15 minutes of research i hope people do theirs

Food for Thought
David:)

Didn't fish Tokaryk when I was there Speckle... too muddy from the wind and rain. The fish we were catching weren't soft fish with their fins rubbed raw from doing laps in the pool. These were fresh, slap-you-in-the-face-while-breaking-your-10lb-line-off-in-the-reeds kind of fish. There might be a few brooders in there, but the majority are grown in the lake from 6-8 inches.

So yeah, I am toasting them as quality lakes. And from what many people are saying, some of the best quality lakes in North America. Definitely better than anything we have in Alberta. Yeah Speckle, even better than in the Parks.

Cheers.

[HunterDave]

If you've read through the thread Dave, you'll see that the discussion mostly has not been about creating a lot more quality lakes but about the poor job SRD is doing on most (not all) of the ones it currently has.
- Too many stocked fish and
- Too loose of regs on some of the lakes which are aerated yet still have a limit of 5 of any size.

This is why there needs to be more quality fisheries in Alberta with better regulations, that are managed better than they currently are.

It's pretty clear to me...........create more "quality" lakes.

You aren't happy with the ones that you have yet you want to create more of them. :sign0161: Does this somehow make sense to you?

[Speckle55]

When i want a Big Rainbow i will go to where they are Big in my books that means 20# + and that isn,t happening in a Quality lake in Alberta(unless u change Genitcs) as i only know of one small lake that had no special regs on it and it had 4 over 20# and it was in the Park.. do you know any Alberta lake that have 20# Rainbows ever

It was a Very eutropic/periphery lake with some serious zooilogy/plankton

David:)

[TyreeUM]

Just to comment on your replies - I didn't entirely mean the cost in terms of funding, although that certainly is part of it, but rather the cost in terms of time and resources. With the heavy level of fishing pressure the few number of lakes in Alberta receive, it sounds like they have their hands full finding the collecting the required data to responsibly manage the native resources (which are obviously more important the a non-native stocked fish). I also read posts on this forum all the time about stocked trout locations that get "fished out" and the largest fish caught is 6 inches...so lakes where you can consistently catch 18-20 inch fish seem quite quality in comparison, not to mention there are plenty of people on this forum that seem to be able to find non-brood trout that are quite a bit larger.
Another thing to consider is the fact that larger trout are often smarter trout. I know, at least here in Saskatchewan, the average angler doesn’t even enjoy fishing our lakes that I would consider to have the highest "quality" fish. They seem to always get skunked and often complain there are no fish even in the lake. These same people (the majority I would also add) can go to the lakes that are stocked to provide numbers over size, and have no problem catching lots of decent sized fish (12”-16”) and have the opportunity to bring a couple home for the dinner table. The lakes that I would consider "quality", my friends and I are almost ALWAYS the only ones on the lake.
I commend you guys for your efforts, though. Resource management funded by taxes will NEVER be to the level that it should, and we should ALWAYS be questioning and demanding more bang for our buck.
You are clearly passionate about what you feel is right, and the level of effort you have (and clearly will be) put forth is commendable. Good luck with your venture and I hope you get the results you’re looking for on at least one or two lakes closer to you than Manitoba.

[Bigtoad]

This is simply not true. I rarely go there without catching at least some 22+" trout. Conversely, I hardly ever catch smaller than 17" at that lake. Most seem to be in the respectable 18-20" range. I've fished there regularly these last two years and this is my experience for what it's worth.
It's worth a lot actually... from the experience that I, and a number of people I know that fish it several times a year, I would agree with your last 2 observations 100% but anything over 22" was nearly non-existent. I'm super happy that you're catching some over. Maybe all is not lost...

Since it seems you fish it quite often, have you observed a decline in the overall size of big fish that you are catching there now, than 3 or more years ago? From everyone I've personally talked with, they have said, and I would agree, that there used to be a lot more big (5lb+) fish caught then than now. I've ice fished it several of the past years and we could at least see some bigguns swim buy even if they didn't bite several years ago. Last two years we didn't see any big ones at all. They were either 16 or 18-20ish, with none over.

Can you imagine that lake though if it was regulated a bit more, stocked a little less, and throw some browns in there for good measure? Epic? Perhaps...


Most of your posts seem to like beating this horse to death bigtoad and it's starting to sound like a broken record, valid or not. When I started reading this thread I actually thought it was going to be about the "fun in Manitoba" Silly me.
It was fun... lots of fun. Wish more people here would see the vision that they seem to have in Manitoba.
Silly me.

[huntin'fool]

Heya Toad. This reminds me of the discussion that went on for what? 8 - 10 pages? that you started about Quality Trout Fisheries. I think all was beaten to death in that thread and this one is heading for the same fate.

Nice looking piggies you caught there!

For the life of me, I will never ever understand why someone would rather go home with 5 dinky 10 inch trout as opposed to one nice big juicy chromer of 20 inches or more.

[DuckBrat]

Heya Toad. This reminds me of the discussion that went on for what? 8 - 10 pages? that you started about Quality Trout Fisheries. I think all was beaten to death in that thread and this one is heading for the same fate.

Nice looking piggies you caught there!

For the life of me, I will never ever understand why someone would rather go home with 5 dinky 10 inch trout as opposed to one nice big juicy chromer of 20 inches or more.

Like! Wise words.

[saskfly]

Not trying to rock any boats but just curious, doesn't the bow valley fish hatchery dump its old brood stock into Phyllis?

[MartyM]

Grew up in Manitoba and spent many summer days at Lake of the Prairies, Childs Lake, The Blue's, The Narrow's, a few in Saskatchewan that I can't remember and a couple on the Manitoba Ontario border. Been living in Alberta now since 2000 and working here since 1997 and with all the travels with work around this province all that I have seen are sloughs.

[huntin'fool]

Not trying to rock any boats but just curious, doesn't the bow valley fish hatchery dump its old brood stock into Phyllis?

you got it.

[Bhflyfisher]

Doc, You make it sound like there are a thousand vehicles at Muir Lake every weekend. The parking lot is what.......an acre large? :lol: Muir Lake is a "special" lake for "special" people and the same small group of fishermen fish it. None of the locals around here fish it. Why would we, there are plenty of trout lakes in the area that are "moderately busy to slow" that produce the same size trout. :confused0024:

".....one of the most productive stocked fisheries in Alberta right now......." pfffst.......I doubt that. :rolleye2:

Too quote you ":rolleye2:"

[Doc]

Doc, You make it sound like there are a thousand vehicles at Muir Lake every weekend. The parking lot is what.......an acre large? :lol: Muir Lake is a "special" lake for "special" people and the same small group of fishermen fish it. None of the locals around here fish it. Why would we, there are plenty of trout lakes in the area that are "moderately busy to slow" that produce the same size trout. :confused0024:

".....one of the most productive stocked fisheries in Alberta right now......." pfffst.......I doubt that. :rolleye2:

The parking lot size at Muir is comparable to any other trout fisheries in the area, larger than some. The point being is the parking lot is at capacity which means what Dave? It's the same people over and over again? I meet new anglers there every time I go out. These aren't special anglers, these are average Joes that want a chance at a few nice trout. None of the locals around where Dave, where you live? So what? The locals @ Muir Lake come from Spruce Grove, Stony Plain, St.Alberta, Edmonton, Sherwood Park, Leduc, Beaumont, Devon, etc. Dave, you can doubt all you like, means nothing. You're ignorant to what Muir Lake offers anglers because you don't fish it and therefore have nothing of quality or substance to add in a discussion about the lake. It's a fact that Muir lake is one of the most productive stocked lakes in Alberta and the anglers are voting with their feet. I've seen the parking lot at Muir so packed with people that anglers started parking down both sides of RR540. So, what other stocks lakes are that much in demand? Everybody is wrong but you eh Dave?

[Doc]

Grew up in Manitoba and spent many summer days at Lake of the Prairies, Childs Lake, The Blue's, The Narrow's, a few in Saskatchewan that I can't remember and a couple on the Manitoba Ontario border. Been living in Alberta now since 2000 and working here since 1997 and with all the travels with work around this province all that I have seen are sloughs.

I wrote an article, just for you Marty ;)

http://www.albertastillwaters.com/potholelakes.htm

Cheers,
Doc

[Bigtoad]

Ok, as requested, I'll shut up for a while and just add a few more pics from the trip. Not sure what was requested more... :)

Sorry for the quality, I just used my webcam to take pics of pics that I got from my dad who went as well. This will have to do for now but you should still get the general effect. All of these are different fish. Not all mine. Not all of the big ones either.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/Photoon12-06-12at936PM3.jpg

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/Photoon12-06-12at936PM.jpg

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/Photoon12-06-12at933PM.jpg

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu255/bigtoad/Photoon12-06-12at932PM.jpg

Cheers.

[jrs]

Ive managed to fish quality lakes all over Alberta this spring. South ones were awesome, northwest central lakes awesome, central crowded and undersized, but nice fish caught. Im a huge fan of these lakes, due to average fish size and catch rates. Biggest rainbow ive caught this year (24'') did come from a limit 5 lake down south. Not a busy lake, but it was the only fish i landed over 2 days of fishing. Best day on one of the special lakes for me this year saw well over a dozen 20-22'' rainbows to the net in a day with lots of little guys tossed in. Fun in my opinion..Buddies just got back from Manitoba though, can't even compare our quality fisheries. We have guppies here in comparison. Those are all great fish!!!

[gatorhunter]

Lots of photos of humongous stocked fish have been posted. The key word being stocked. Whether AB or MB, these fish are raised artificially because they "generally" don't reproduce in lakes.

Depending on the water body rainbows can grow something like 2 pounds per year. At those growth rates they die after 6 or 7 years at 12 to 20 pounds! Need strict limits to keep those big fish in certain bodies of water otherwise they'd get cleaned out in a hurry. MB has very strict size and number limits on stocked trout.

My issue is the latest AB Outdoorsmen Forum digest. It showed people getting an award for killing a 48 inch pike and a 33 inch plus walleye. That is just wrong!

Natural fish of those sizes take a long time to grow. They are the mature females that are needed come spawning time.

It's bad enough that someone would kill those big females but to get rewarded for it is wrong, wrong, wrong.

That's where your complaints should be directed: at the rewarded killing of these naturally raised trophy fish!