PDA

View Full Version : Oil Spill in Jackson Creek - Tributary of RDR


jacenbeers
06-08-2012, 09:34 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/06/08/calgary-sundre-oil-spill.html

FlareKing
06-08-2012, 01:47 PM
Dickson Dam has been closed? I can't see that happening to much longer the way it has been raining. They would have to let some water pas no?

ReconWilly
06-08-2012, 02:10 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ its been revealed that the oil is boiling up in the RDR itself, thats the 1st lie soooooo far, lets see where this goes and punish the environmental offenders to the extreme.


Hows that water RD? Would you let your children drink from the tap? Do you trust the people in charge? I hope you chose wisely during the last election, you'll be dealing with this crap for decades now.


Its the real golden rule "he with all the gold makes the rules".


What a sad day...

laut
06-08-2012, 02:14 PM
Now, I know why so many people from Alberta coming to fish in Saskatchewan.
it is sad to see how we treat our nature and resources. All we think of is money !!! I hope Harper will wake up soon and take care of it before he get kick out of the office.

MissFlyfishing
06-08-2012, 02:46 PM
Now, I know why so many people from Alberta coming to fish in Saskatchewan.
it is sad to see how we treat our nature and resources. All we think of is money !!! I hope Harper will wake up soon and take care of it before he get kick out of the office.

Just wait till the boom hits (now) in Saskatchewan and they start building more roads into some of the north country. Easy access to all those pristine fishing lakes, increased fishing pressure and oil flowing around pipelines like, well, Alberta. Enjoy it well you can Saskies.....you're next.

BeeGuy
06-08-2012, 02:52 PM
Oil doesn't efect fish cause it's bin in that river for a long time.

They will cleen it up good to.

braggadoe
06-08-2012, 02:57 PM
i thought rocky7 said pipeline companys are well "anal" with safety precautions to prevent this sort of thing. how could this be happening so often??


very sad indeed....... just imagine a much larger pipeline and the skeena. all to save 24hr shipping to china.

avb3
06-08-2012, 03:19 PM
i thought rocky7 said pipeline companys are well "anal" with safety precautions to prevent this sort of thing. how could this be happening so often??


very sad indeed....... just imagine a much larger pipeline and the skeena. all to save 24hr shipping to china.

Have you noticed that the usual suspects who are defenders of all things oil have not said boo about this?

BeeGuy
06-08-2012, 03:26 PM
This story is just anuther exsample of flaky enviromentists (terrorists!) lieing to the media to destroy industry we work so hard for.

pikergolf
06-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Have you noticed that the usual suspects who are defenders of all things oil have not said boo about this?

They'll wait till the Co. spin Drs. have spoken and get the "facts".

Isopod
06-08-2012, 03:39 PM
Maybe they have jobs and can't post until they get off work.

bb356
06-08-2012, 03:47 PM
Maybe they have jobs and can't post until they get off work.

x 1000 !!! :)

Yéil
06-08-2012, 03:49 PM
Have you noticed that the usual suspects who are defenders of all things oil have not said boo about this?

I think instead of pointing fingers at folks that participate on an online forum, perhaps you might want to be asking the pipeline owner why this has happened?

Then when you finish asking those responsible, why not get a hold of the MLA that is in your area and ask them what are they going to do to a) get it cleaned up, b) fine those responsible c) ensure that it doesn't happen again by tightening up a self regulatory industry.

When you are done that then maybe you can get in touch with whatever conservation org is in the area and VOLUNTEER to help out with the clean up.

Then maybe after all of that you can gripe about anonymous people on a forum's lack of contributions to your accusations.

ReconWilly
06-08-2012, 03:50 PM
Maybe they have jobs and can't post until they get off work.

Do they work for oil companies?...:scared0018:

bb356
06-08-2012, 03:52 PM
I think instead of pointing fingers at folks that participate on an online forum, perhaps you might want to be asking the pipeline owner why this has happened?

Then when you finish asking those responsible, why not get a hold of the MLA that is in your area and ask them what are they going to do to a) get it cleaned up, b) fine those responsible c) ensure that it doesn't happen again by tightening up a self regulatory industry.

When you are done that then maybe you can get in touch with whatever conservation org is in the area and VOLUNTEER to help out with the clean up.

Then maybe after all of that you can gripe about anonymous people on a forum's lack of contributions to your accusations.

Well Said !!!

Nait Hadya
06-08-2012, 04:00 PM
it would be quite upsetting if it were found out that they were aware of the leak and nothing gwas done. ironic that it occured at a time of very high water volume. two ruptures in four years,,,,alberta is being run like a third world country.

jacenbeers
06-08-2012, 04:08 PM
Oil doesn't efect fish cause it's bin in that river for a long time.

They will cleen it up good to.

Who is this guy?

NSRfishing
06-08-2012, 04:21 PM
what happens when you let non union scum build and operate

ndw
06-08-2012, 04:22 PM
Trust me, the oil company did not turn a blind eye on the oil spill. They will clean it us and shut down lines as soon as they find a problem. They are not self governed. The oil companies are governed by government and private rules and regulations. There are huge fines for people and companies that are not in compliance. To curb the high dependence on oil and gas and so that everyone does not have a hate on for the oil companies, I think that we should shut down some of the large factories and main hiways in and around the cities this is where alot of the fossil fuels are used. Everyone should be alloted a certain amount of fuel. Once it is gone then walk or bike. I have worked on both sides of the fence and understand both sides. There are alot of people and companies out there trying their hardest to make sure things like this do not happen. Can we give them credit for the long hours they put in. Some of these is the WCSS, for alot of this is volunteer. With no fossil fuels there would be not food, heat, homes, electricity ect.

quiteeye
06-08-2012, 04:32 PM
In all honesty I agree with just about everything here. But we are human. Mistakes and accidents happen. I'm sure every body on here today has made a mistake. It's our nature to make mistakes. All of us also use this natural resource we call oil. There is a couple points in my discussion I want to touch on. 1000 years ago oil naturally flowed and released out of the ground. California was actually built on tar sands. Where today they still find fossils in these prehistoric ruptures. Where animals would get trapped in it suffer, and die. This has happened for thousands of years. Now the amount and quantity of these holdings were not as large on a scale. But effected populations of animals that relied and lived in these swamps. The worlds markets depend on us (Alberta). The world needs oil. It is unfortunate that the countries we supply with this natural resource can not help, support the accidents that may not be able to be prevented or stopped. There's a fixed price for oil. But when you buy a bottle of pop or a case of beer. You pay a deposit. Assuming your gonna wanna get that buck back you recycle it. Meaning, if there was an extra couple dollars a barrel that went to clean ups, preventative maintenance and up to date technology. There is a possibility that these accidents can be minimized. But no way can it ever be stopped completely, sorta like when you throw that pop bottle out that's only worth $.05. Human error will always happen.
This is non the less in my mind a tradigity I love fishing, hunting ducks and geese who all rely on our outdoors here. I don't work for any big wig company in Calgary. I live in a small city called Camrose. I work for an advertising firm. I want to make it clear, that we should not judge or curse what's has happened. Because it will always happen, for the rest of our time and our children's time and so on. What we need to fix is where some of the money from oil is actually going. How when these spills, leaks begin to happen, if we had better response and faster technology showing pressure sensors in designated zones. There is lots we could probably do to minimize the possibilities. But when it comes down to it, we're human. And until I meet someone who has never made a mistake, or never forgot his pliers or bait, or beer going fishing. We have to accept the nature cause of human error.

MountainTi
06-08-2012, 04:32 PM
it would be quite upsetting if it were found out that they were aware of the leak and nothing gwas done. ironic that it occured at a time of very high water volume.
.

You seriously believe that? Wow

avb3
06-08-2012, 04:39 PM
Trust me, the oil company did not turn a blind eye on the oil spill. They will clean it us and shut down lines as soon as they find a problem. They are not self governed. The oil companies are governed by government and private rules and regulations. There are huge fines for people and companies that are not in compliance. To curb the high dependence on oil and gas and so that everyone does not have a hate on for the oil companies, I think that we should shut down some of the large factories and main hiways in and around the cities this is where alot of the fossil fuels are used. Everyone should be alloted a certain amount of fuel. Once it is gone then walk or bike. I have worked on both sides of the fence and understand both sides. There are alot of people and companies out there trying their hardest to make sure things like this do not happen. Can we give them credit for the long hours they put in. Some of these is the WCSS, for alot of this is volunteer. With no fossil fuels there would be not food, heat, homes, electricity ect.

I actually believe that most oil companies really are trying today. I can also tell you of a few stories about some not very responsible oil/gas companies and some of their antics. Talk to many land owners who have to deal with similar problems.

My comment about the usual suspects was made somewhat tongue in cheek, because they are so adamant about defending oil companies, but when there is a problem, they disappear.

I reiterate, most oil companies really are trying, and I know that.

duffy4
06-08-2012, 07:34 PM
This story is just anuther exsample of flaky enviromentists (terrorists!) lieing to the media to destroy industry we work so hard for.

:sHa_sarcasticlol:

Boy thats pretty funny!

ndw
06-08-2012, 07:51 PM
Good points by all. We all need to work together. If someone is not doing their job when it comes to that then yes by all means throw the book at them. Problem is the operators loose their job,or some companies get fined but the fines have to go to the real criminals, the ones that are hiding behind the big companies. For now let's all work together and do what we can to give our daughters and sons the hunting, fishing and outdoors we all so much love and enjoy.

hal53
06-08-2012, 07:58 PM
I think instead of pointing fingers at folks that participate on an online forum, perhaps you might want to be asking the pipeline owner why this has happened?

Then when you finish asking those responsible, why not get a hold of the MLA that is in your area and ask them what are they going to do to a) get it cleaned up, b) fine those responsible c) ensure that it doesn't happen again by tightening up a self regulatory industry.

When you are done that then maybe you can get in touch with whatever conservation org is in the area and VOLUNTEER to help out with the clean up.

Then maybe after all of that you can gripe about anonymous people on a forum's lack of contributions to your accusations.
you know what they can do???...shut down the entire friggin' industry for 2 years, let everyone freeze in the dark and walk everywhere until the 50-60 year old pipelines are replaced, but wait...it will take longer than 2 years because the greenies will "want to be heard"...just make sure you don't schedule a rally on welfare cheque day..they're busy that day....it will be handled, it's not the end of the world...99.9% will be contained or more...good grief people!!!

nevercatchmuch
06-08-2012, 07:59 PM
flareking - as of last weekend, about 3/4 of the reservoir was not yet filled. If you know the island directly south of dickson pond....I walked to it. Could walk across most of the lake from dickson point west. Most of glennifer "lake" is a tiny river, so there is lots of water that can fill it up before they have to open things up more at the outlet.

hal53
06-08-2012, 08:00 PM
what happens when you let non union scum build and operate
can guarantee you that line wa built by Union...s....people....dumb post....

rugatika
06-08-2012, 08:11 PM
So, if you guys were the oil company, what would you have done to prevent a leak? I'd be interested in hearing the "professionals" opinions on how they would run an oil company that would never have a single leak in any of their pipelines.

hal53
06-08-2012, 08:13 PM
So, if you guys were the oil company, what would you have done to prevent a leak? I'd be interested in hearing the "professionals" opinions on how they would run an oil company that would never have a single leak in any of their pipelines.
Me too please.......

boonerkiller
06-08-2012, 08:24 PM
what happens when you let non union scum build and operate

:sign0161: Your a shmuck bud what makes you think a frigen UNION is going to do anything better??

Unions are LAME....the industrial revolution was over some time ago, there aint any need for them. They just promote uselessness.

rugatika
06-08-2012, 08:25 PM
Then when you finish asking those responsible, why not get a hold of the MLA that is in your area and ask them what are they going to do to a) get it cleaned up, b) fine those responsible c) ensure that it doesn't happen again by tightening up a self regulatory industry.




Well said, and just to clarify:
Actually the oil and gas industry is not self regulating. The ERCB is the governing body and creates the rules and regulations as well as enforcement of in this case the pipeline act. http://www.ercb.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_299_260_0_43/http%3B/ercbContent/publishedcontent/publish/ercb_home/

The oil company will get it cleaned up, they will most likely be fined and get a lecture.

braggadoe
06-08-2012, 08:27 PM
for starters, if at all possiable, even if it cost more money, keep the lines running together in less sensitive routes. for example the ngpl should follow existing pipeline too vancouver instead of the proposed route. i'm not anti oil, but this kind of thing happens, it allways will. so lets put just a little thought into where we build them.

rugatika
06-08-2012, 08:31 PM
for starters, if at all possiable, even if it cost more money, keep the lines running together in less sensitive routes. for example the ngpl should follow existing pipeline too vancouver instead of the proposed route. i'm not anti oil, but this kind of thing happens, it allways will. so lets put just a little thought into where we build them.

nice sentiment. Any idea on the practicality of that? Ever designed an oil or gas gathering system? Generally oil companies make a fairly concerted effort to avoid crossing sensitive areas...(mostly because it's expensive to do), sometimes it's unavoidable though. Fact of life.

hal53
06-08-2012, 08:32 PM
for starters, if at all possiable, even if it cost more money, keep the lines running together in less sensitive routes. for example the ngpl should follow existing pipeline too vancouver instead of the proposed route. i'm not anti oil, but this kind of thing happens, it allways will. so lets put just a little thought into where we build them.
The Gateway line is not for Natural gas,........and I don't think you want to be digging up a line to lay a common line beside it????....wow, the lawyers would get rich there if there was ever a leak....

michaelmicallef
06-08-2012, 08:41 PM
As we are all parasites on this planet we are all responsable to what happens to this planet. Mother nature will always correct any imbalences. Sounds very dooms day I know but small scale or large scale the end result is always the same. The host dies. It just takes longer when it's large scale. I have fished on the Bow river after a long strerch of dry weather followed by a haevy rain fall and the water just reaks of gasoline. Just pointing out that this sort of think happens and people are not even aware of it some times.

Yéil
06-08-2012, 08:47 PM
So, if you guys were the oil company, what would you have done to prevent a leak? I'd be interested in hearing the "professionals" opinions on how they would run an oil company that would never have a single leak in any of their pipelines.

I'd like to know how to get your head out of your butt... you seem to be suffering from headupbuttitis. :snapoutofit:

Yéil
06-08-2012, 08:48 PM
The Gateway line is not for Natural gas,........and I don't think you want to be digging up a line to lay a common line beside it????....wow, the lawyers would get rich there if there was ever a leak....

Cool... I could use a top up of my retirement fund...lol

hal53
06-08-2012, 08:51 PM
Cool... I could use a top up of my retirement fund...lol
spoken like a true lawyer....we have to have the "talk"....LOL!!!

Yéil
06-08-2012, 08:56 PM
spoken like a true lawyer....we have to have the "talk"....LOL!!!

Lawyers never talk... they assert or contend or stipulate...lol

hal53
06-08-2012, 08:58 PM
Lawyers never talk... they assert or contend or stipulate...lol
...you forgot the most important one....Bill........

braggadoe
06-08-2012, 09:11 PM
nice sentiment. Any idea on the practicality of that? Ever designed an oil or gas gathering system? Generally oil companies make a fairly concerted effort to avoid crossing sensitive areas...(mostly because it's expensive to do), sometimes it's unavoidable though. Fact of life.

i never designed an oil or gas pipeline, but i did do the legal/land surveys on many, every pipeline i was involved with surveying was the shortest route,least amount of money, as fast as it could happen.

hal53
06-08-2012, 09:17 PM
i never designed an oil or gas pipeline, but i did do the legal/land surveys on many, every pipeline i was involved with surveying was the shortest route,least amount of money, as fast as it could happen.
....and????? your point is????

fishdude17
06-08-2012, 11:55 PM
[QUOTE=NSRfishing;1471133]what happens when you let non union scum build and operate[/QUOTE

Give your head a shake. :thinking-006:

DuckBrat
06-09-2012, 01:19 AM
Oil doesn't efect fish cause it's bin in that river for a long time.

They will cleen it up good to.

Really??? Who the **** turned the computer on and keyed this response for you? Half-witted comments makes me think you wouldn't have the braincells to even post here. Must have had help.

Old or New, pipeline infrastructure is not be trusted as we have seen in the last 12 months or longer. Especially if we have folks like this poster in the industry. Keep it away from the Skeena.

For all those who think this is just another article drawn up by enviro's trying to take down your industry, let me pour you a glass of water while we debate.

avb3
06-09-2012, 01:32 AM
Really??? Who the **** turned the computer on and keyed this response for you? Half-witted comments makes me think you wouldn't have the braincells to even post here. Must have had help.

Old or New, pipeline infrastructure is not be trusted as we have seen in the last 12 months or longer. Especially if we have folks like this poster in the industry. Keep it away from the Skeena.

For all those who think this is just another article drawn up by enviro's trying to take down your industry, let me pour you a glass of water while we debate.

I think Beeguy was being sarcastic.

KCL
06-09-2012, 01:39 AM
i never designed an oil or gas pipeline, but i did do the legal/land surveys on many, every pipeline i was involved with surveying was the shortest route,least amount of money, as fast as it could happen.

I never designed an oil or gas pipeline either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Checkmate Sergie...

deanmc
06-09-2012, 02:24 AM
We need the oil/gas. We dont want to pay what it costs now. We dont want any spills and we want the ones that do happen cleaned up as completely and quickly as possible.:thinking-006: How can we have it all?

I agree with those that feel this is a horrific disaster. I also have no idea what to do to stop it from happening again without completely crippling our transportation network.

I am angry but I dont know who to be angry at. Never really been someone that shouted at a person or industry without being able to say what they should have done.

If we are going to live in a province that has oil and gas as its primary source of income and enjoy those spoils how can we expect it to shut every pipeline that crosses a creek down ?

KCL
06-09-2012, 08:17 AM
As long as the companies are using state of the art leak detection systems with fully automated shut in systems and the pipelines are being monitored 24hrs/day with some sort of SCADA system then fine. Leaks will happen, clean them up as quickly and completely as possible. If chances are being taken and shortcuts are happening then that is unacceptable and the companies should be scrutinized by the ERCB and forced to put better measures in place. We all have to remember, Plains is a huge liquid transporter. TransCanada has pipeline blowouts too, but it is gas so the environmental impact is much lower, with companies that are this large they are statistically going to have more spills.

WABBIT
06-09-2012, 10:23 AM
Apparently this is a non-operating line that was left full of oil. Does anyone know if monitoring systems would work in a line with no flow. The real question should be was it going to operate again or is it an old line that they just shut down and walked away from? If it is I think the owners of the 1000 + recreational properties on Glennifer might want to get some legal advise in regards to lost property value.

fish gunner
06-09-2012, 11:25 AM
sad day for my local river, I am fortunate I get my water from a well. this is the second leak in a short piriod of time on that section of the RDR. I find this upsetting bye the fact the river was just recovering from the last spill. small bulls, browns and brook trout had begun to show up in that area. giving evidence of a level of rehabilitation. this has now been undone in the blink of an eye. this is not a time for bickering, it is a time for action to prevent further damage. if you care show up, do someting productive to help. I am making inquiries on what can be done by joe public to help the situation. for all those still thinking the northern gateway pipe line is a good idea. if this happened on one coastal river we would have just lost an entire year class of fish(spawners) along with an other year class of juveniles. this cannot be allowed to happen. I will matter litle to most, my scotsmans creek just got wiped out in a few moments after that pipe line broke.

greylynx
06-10-2012, 12:34 PM
This story is just anuther exsample of flaky enviromentists (terrorists!) lieing to the media to destroy industry we work so hard for.

I am glad you see how things really are. You must be getting a little older and therefore a little wiser.

Excellent post.

greylynx
06-10-2012, 12:42 PM
...you forgot the most important one....Bill........

......buy the hour...and sometimes in four figures......tick tick tick tick.

Those darn accountants do the same thing.

greylynx
06-10-2012, 12:53 PM
They'll wait till the Co. spin Drs. have spoken and get the "facts".

Did you grow up in Alberta during the 60's., or are you another one who came to Alberta to complain and whine about this province with one exception, your paycheck.

Yéil
06-10-2012, 05:40 PM
......buy the hour...and sometimes in four figures......tick tick tick tick.

Those darn accountants do the same thing.

Actually, we bill by 1/20th of an hour. :) (well, those in private practice do...)

Seems the crews are reporting they've managed to contain the spill with booms etc. I know the booms we use with our ships do a pretty good job to contain stuff.

Anyone know if the water/weather conditions are allowing the boom to stay stable or is there a chance of a failure (waves, fast water etc)?

hal53
06-10-2012, 05:47 PM
Actually, we bill by 1/20th of an hour. :) (well, those in private practice do...)

Seems the crews are reporting they've managed to contain the spill with booms etc. I know the booms we use with our ships do a pretty good job to contain stuff.

Anyone know if the water/weather conditions are allowing the boom to stay stable or is there a chance of a failure (waves, fast water etc)?
Weird...I've hired "other" people that charge by the 20th of an hour too...maybe they got the idea from Lawyers???...LOL, anyway , yah the booms contain it pretty good and they have it surrounded at the west end. Also they apparently started skimming it already late yesterday. Heard some interviews to day from locals, they are not running around like there hair is on fire, like some people here....I guess they actually know what's going on

MountainTi
06-10-2012, 05:55 PM
Weird...I've hired "other" people that charge by the 20th of an hour too...maybe they got the idea from Lawyers???...LOL, anyway , yah the booms contain it pretty good and they have it surrounded at the west end. Also they apparently started skimming it already late yesterday. Heard some interviews to day from locals, they are not running around like there hair is on fire, like some people here....I guess they actually know what's going on

I suspect there are actually a few people on here that do actually know what's going on. Some actually live awful close to the sites. Hell, the GF is at the command center twice daily, so there are actually a few in the know. Not quite as rosy as you make it out to be.

Paul C
06-10-2012, 06:26 PM
Oil doesn't efect fish cause it's bin in that river for a long time. :thinking-006:

They will cleen it up good to.
You must be smoking the stuff as well judging from your comments.
I am truly disappointed by your comments.......what ever............:thinking-006:

avb3
06-10-2012, 06:31 PM
I suspect there are actually a few people on here that do actually know what's going on. Some actually live awful close to the sites. Hell, the GF is at the command center twice daily, so there are actually a few in the know. Not quite as rosy as you make it out to be.

X two. A family member of mine is involved. Some oil company apologists need to take of the rose coloured glasses... sometimes sh!t is actually sh!t and can't be brushed off with ad hominem comments.

It works a lot better when rather than making excuses to work together to make sure this doesn't happen again.

hal53
06-10-2012, 07:05 PM
I suspect there are actually a few people on here that do actually know what's going on. Some actually live awful close to the sites. Hell, the GF is at the command center twice daily, so there are actually a few in the know. Not quite as rosy as you make it out to be.
just sayin', different stories from the folks interviewed that " I heard" than the media and others are reporting.....

we all know the media and greenies would never blow anything out of proportion, right???

hal53
06-10-2012, 07:10 PM
X two. A family member of mine is involved. Some oil company apologists need to take of the rose coloured glasses... sometimes sh!t is actually sh!t and can't be brushed off with ad hominem comments.

It works a lot better when rather than making excuses to work together to make sure this doesn't happen again.
This is the one timeI will agree with one of your posts, but working "together" means just that, not ranting and whining about things, stop, slow down, figure out what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. Knowledge is strength....running for Lawyers and compensation doesn't help the situation. I as well am having trouble with the rumors reported that it was a "dead" line, and still leaked the numbers they're talking about?, lotsa speculation going on....

pikergolf
06-10-2012, 07:12 PM
just sayin', different stories from the folks interviewed that " I heard" than the media and others are reporting.....

we all know the media and greenies would never blow anything out of proportion, right???

And the oil companies would never, ever in a million years lie, right???

hal53
06-10-2012, 07:19 PM
And the oil companies would never, ever in a million years lie, right???
...or the endless line of people looking for compensation right????....we have to find a balance here, Alberta is a resource rich province, those resources have to be transferred around the country, the lines that do this , some have been in the ground a long time, they are constantly checked for integrity new technology ( smart pigs and such) are helping, but there will always be issues. The point I'm making is we have to work together, and get rid of that BS about Oil Co's. lying etc. from someone who has no idea what's going on, but sadly somebody showed him how to run a computer

fajita123
06-10-2012, 07:21 PM
This is the one timeI will agree with one of your posts, but working "together" means just that, not ranting and whining about things, stop, slow down, figure out what happened and make sure it doesn't happen again. Knowledge is strength....running for Lawyers and compensation doesn't help the situation. I as well am having trouble with the rumors reported that it was a "dead" line, and still leaked the numbers they're talking about?, lotsa speculation going on....

As I posted in the other thread, I believe it was still an active pipeline, just not flowing at the time of the leak (i.e. it was not in suspended or inactive status).

pikergolf
06-10-2012, 07:27 PM
...or the endless line of people looking for compensation right????....we have to find a balance here, Alberta is a resource rich province, those resources have to be transferred around the country, the lines that do this , some have been in the ground a long time, they are constantly checked for integrity new technology ( smart pigs and such) are helping, but there will always be issues. The point I'm making is we have to work together, and get rid of that BS about Oil Co's. lying etc. from someone who has no idea what's going on, but sadly somebody showed him how to run a computer

Is that your job, to tell us all what's going on? If you really believe that oil Co. always tell us the truth I got some swamp, errr prime land you might want to purchase. And why always with the insults, if you want to make a point, insults are counterproductive. :)

hal53
06-10-2012, 07:33 PM
Is that your job, to tell us all what's going on? If you really believe that oil Co. always tell us the truth I got some swamp, errr prime land you might want to purchase. And why always with the insults, if you want to make a point, insults are counterproductive. :)
everything you have said about this is "fact"...????...first hand knowledge????, or just regurgitating what you have heard???. My only point is, it's going to happen, we ALL have to figure out how to minimize the problems, if you think I insulted you, I apologize, that was not my intent. I have dealt with this kind of stuff for many years....and believe me as much as some people would like to think the Co's are allowed to cover up details...they definitely are not, usually , it's not even them handing the info to the media, it's the ERCB.....

pikergolf
06-10-2012, 07:45 PM
everything you have said about this is "fact"...????...first hand knowledge????, or just regurgitating what you have heard???. My only point is, it's going to happen, we ALL have to figure out how to minimize the problems, if you think I insulted you, I apologize, that was not my intent. I have dealt with this kind of stuff for many years....and believe me as much as some people would like to think the Co's are allowed to cover up details...they definitely are not, usually , it's not even them handing the info to the media, it's the ERCB.....

I can't remember saying anything about this, although I may be proven wrong, i have a bit of a memory issue. I know it will happen, has to, nothing has ever been built that is not at some point going to fail. I guess where we differ is that you believe the Co.s would not lie and have the publics interest at heart. I believe they are ruled as are all Co.s by the bottom dollar, I also believe the best way to get them to do the best they can, is when an incident like this happens is to hold their feet to the fire, hard. Where you view the "greenies" as the enemy, I view them as a necessary component to keep the Gov. and Oil Co. honest.

hal53
06-10-2012, 07:53 PM
I can't remember saying anything about this, although I may be proven wrong, i have a bit of a memory issue. I know it will happen, has to, nothing has ever been built that is not at some point going to fail. I guess where we differ is that you believe the Co.s would not lie and have the publics interest at heart. I believe they are ruled as are all Co.s by the bottom dollar, I also believe the best way to get them to do the best they can, is when an incident like this happens is to hold their feet to the fire, hard. Where you view the "greenies" as the enemy, I view them as a necessary component to keep the Gov. and Oil Co. honest.
seesh!!!...sounds a lot like "balance" is what you're proposing???...good idea!!!!!...how long have you worked in the patch???

fish gunner
06-10-2012, 08:31 PM
so when these "minor" incidents increase in the future and every water shed in alberta is dead. do you feel the oil companies will pay to have fresh water routed to alberta. I feel detroit is a fine example of corporate loyalties in regard to what we can expect. a dead province, polluted, broke and empty. never happen eh !

hal53
06-10-2012, 08:42 PM
so when these "minor" incidents increase in the future and every water shed in alberta is dead. do you feel the oil companies will pay to have fresh water routed to alberta. I feel detroit is a fine example of corporate loyalties in regard to what we can expect. a dead province, polluted, broke and empty. never happen eh !
so...what would you propose????...how to we deal with it????

fish gunner
06-10-2012, 09:20 PM
answer with a question? my thoughts, a one strike rule . have a leak or a water shed contamination that field is done shut her down. another idea when a pipe line reaches a specific age ie twenty yrs dig it up replace the whole shebang .make the oil industry responsible in a off limits fashion you f it up your done. place tariffs on pipe lines running near water sheds that ensure if there is ever a leak the costs (financially ) are covered. from my point of veiw one fish in that river is worth more than any wages I ever made in the patch. hay im just a carpenter what do I know aren't you the oil guy who told us these issues are of little concern, engineers take care of this stuff, then my man murphy kiked them in the nads. again...

bobalong
06-10-2012, 09:46 PM
so...what would you propose????...how to we deal with it????

Pipelines are like many other things that are "built", they have a life expectancy of only so many years. Like other things that are built companies realize this and have a replacement or upgrading system in place, replacing/upgrading lines BEFORE they fail, especially older ones, or those that are in close proximety to areas where a failure would cause the most damage.
This is no new idea as I am sure oil companies do this already, however I am also sure that there is a cost/benefit analysis done to determine how much replacement or upgrading costs vs how much a cleanup costs.
Their is technology out there that I read about years ago where new liners are inserted into old pipe, so there is "something" that can be done beside just saying "oh well, things will happen". Once again though it comes to what does the cost/benefit analysis say.
I don't think that anyone will argue that we all need oil/gas, it is a very valuable resource......but we can not continue to sacrifice an even more valuable resource (water) for it.

pikergolf
06-10-2012, 09:51 PM
Pipelines are like many other things that are "built", they have a life expectancy of only so many years. Like other things that are built companies realize this and have a replacement or upgrading system in place, replacing/upgrading lines BEFORE they fail, especially older ones, or those that are in close proximety to areas where a failure would cause the most damage.
This is no new idea as I am sure oil companies do this already, however I am also sure that there is a cost/benefit analysis done to determine how much replacement or upgrading costs vs how much a cleanup costs.
Their is technology out there that I read about years ago where new liners are inserted into old pipe, so there is "something" that can be done beside just saying "oh well, things will happen". Once again though it comes to what does the cost/benefit analysis say.
I don't think that anyone will argue that we all need oil/gas, it is a very valuable resource......but we can not continue to sacrifice an even more valuable resource (water) for it.
What you say is bang on, the trick is to make the price of messing up so high, the Co. will always err on the side of to much PM and not on the side of let it ride. As has been noted water is by far our most precious resource, might not be the money making one but if you don't have water you got nothing. In my vision of AB. not everything is for sale.

KCL
06-10-2012, 09:56 PM
New pipelines can leak too.

Sundancefisher
06-10-2012, 10:48 PM
My comment about the usual suspects was made somewhat tongue in cheek, because they are so adamant about defending oil companies, but when there is a problem, they disappear.
.

Not sure where you are trying to go with this. When something wrong happens there are consequences...big consequences on an environmental perspective. Someone asking if it was left leaking and nothing done...ummm...that would be a jail sentence for Executives in Alberta so...ummm..highly doubtful. If it did happen all the pro oil guys would help lock the jail door. When these bad things happen...everything is done to stop it. Sometimes mother nature does not help.

In any industry...there will be the odd problem. Oil companies must have an action plan in place and react properly or else...big fines and justly so.

Sooo...for all the oil haters than only come out when the odd problem amongst millions and millions of non incidents happen...so are you giving up your car because someone else in Alberta hit and killed a child or a mother or a grandmother with theirs? Are you giving up your truck because another trucker was drinking vodka and killed a family or because a truck was not repaired properly and slammed into a minivan killing a family.

Best way to justify any witch hunt anti oil syndrome is a little cod liver oil like dose of reality. If you want perfection...you will go insane trying to find it.

Making up ridiculous rules like some on this thread is ludicrous... cause the same ones will whine and cry paying $3 or $4 a litre to drive their big trucks.

Otherwise...with any industry you need protections in place...and Alberta has more than any other jurisdiction and you need mitigation plans in effect. That is what happens. Let the professionals deal with it...it is their job not ours.

Sun

BeeGuy
06-10-2012, 10:49 PM
so when these "minor" incidents increase in the future and every water shed in alberta is dead. do you feel the oil companies will pay to have fresh water routed to alberta. I feel detroit is a fine example of corporate loyalties in regard to what we can expect. a dead province, polluted, broke and empty. never happen eh !

well said

Isopod
06-10-2012, 11:07 PM
so when these "minor" incidents increase in the future and every water shed in alberta is dead. do you feel the oil companies will pay to have fresh water routed to alberta. I feel detroit is a fine example of corporate loyalties in regard to what we can expect. a dead province, polluted, broke and empty. never happen eh !
A little over-the-top dramatic, don't you think? Do you really believe that we are heading for every water shed to be dead? For a dead province, polluted broke and empty? I find it hard to take you seriously when you exaggerate things so wildly.

pikergolf
06-10-2012, 11:15 PM
Otherwise...with any industry you need protections in place...and Alberta has more than any other jurisdiction and you need mitigation plans in effect. That is what happens. Let the professionals deal with it...it is their job not ours.

Sun

Just because we're doing better than anywhere else, does not mean we're doing well enough. And it's my province not the "professionals" so I'll carry on worrying about it thanks.:)

fish gunner
06-10-2012, 11:28 PM
A little over-the-top dramatic, don't you think? Do you really believe that we are heading for every water shed to be dead? For a dead province, polluted broke and empty? I find it hard to take you seriously when you exaggerate things so wildly.

detroit was the largest industrial complex in the free world. population 6 million most with skilled jobs in the auto industry. today you could buy the fisher building (world HQ for GM) for the cost of the land. the city is a waste land right now. glasgow scotland one time strongest shipbuilding capital of the free world. 1970 -1990 the city was also near death. you just think im exaggerating I have liveved in both those cities during their hay days. glasgow just managed thru force of will and the strength of her people to survive and flurish, detroit has not had the same luck. Alberta has six or seven medium rivers which it depends on to keep its people alive. so now we have one less. what makes you think we are special when the water is done so are we. from your position you feel some one will make it better. who?

BeeGuy
06-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Love all the strongly worded support and apologists.

It'll be interesting to find out when this 45+ year old pipeline was last 'inspected'.

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 06:16 AM
Love all the strongly worded support and apologists.

It'll be interesting to find out when this 45+ year old pipeline was last 'inspected'.

That is the key question. Was the monitoring and maintenance appropriate. If not they will be fined and pay the price in other ways also.

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 06:19 AM
Otherwise...with any industry you need protections in place...and Alberta has more than any other jurisdiction and you need mitigation plans in effect. That is what happens. Let the professionals deal with it...it is their job not ours.

Sun

Just because we're doing better than anywhere else, does not mean we're doing well enough. And it's my province not the "professionals" so I'll carry on worrying about it thanks.:)

Chasing perfection is idealistic...not realistic. With better regulations than other jurisdictions, we have a better system. I understand you wanting to do better and everyone I know in this field of expertise strives to do just that. Goals for oil companies are zero incidents and people are rewarded for zero incidents. There is no one sitting on their butts ignoring a leak.

ruttnbuckcojack
06-11-2012, 07:29 AM
what happens when you let non union scum build and operate

you might wanna watch you tongue

fish gunner
06-11-2012, 07:50 AM
Chasing perfection is idealistic...not realistic. With better regulations than other jurisdictions, we have a better system. I understand you wanting to do better and everyone I know in this field of expertise strives to do just that. Goals for oil companies are zero incidents and people are rewarded for zero incidents. There is no one sitting on their butts ignoring a leak.

so if perfection is a little out of reach we can over time expect this kind of thing to occur. no big deal really. we will be ok. BS, so if I build you a house and it falls down perfection is unrealistic right. the finish work in your house is realisticlly accurate. the seat belts in your car are mostly safe. a pilot should have a realistic safety record one or two crashes would be realistic. what a crock. thank you for giving us the real down low from the industry point of veiw.the horn will sound when every thing is all right, if the horn is sounding every thing is all right. see above empty, broke and polluted . realistically acceptable out come.

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 08:25 AM
so if perfection is a little out of reach we can over time expect this kind of thing to occur. no big deal really. we will be ok. BS, so if I build you a house and it falls down perfection is unrealistic right. the finish work in your house is realisticlly accurate. the seat belts in your car are mostly safe. a pilot should have a realistic safety record one or two crashes would be realistic. what a crock. thank you for giving us the real down low from the industry point of veiw.the horn will sound when every thing is all right, if the horn is sounding every thing is all right. see above empty, broke and polluted . realistically acceptable out come.

An analogy that would make more sense that if you build 1,000,000 homes...how many burn down or have roof leaks or the foundation sinks or cracks etc. It happens a lot...and the mitigation covers initial builders warranty followed by out of pocket expenses. Perfection definitely does not happen in home building period.

Comparing a house falling down to a pipeline...not realistic. Comparing a pilot crashing...ludicrous.

I understand for you this is an emotional issue so it is hard to debate facts and real life versus utopia but you have to face the fact that stuff happens. Farmers have accidents that kill kids. Ambulances crash into people at intersections. The manufacturing industry has deaths. People get killed with lightning on golf courses.

If you go around saying everyone has to be perfect...it needs to start in the mirror with you coming up with ways to make everything around you perfect. Work, job, neighbours, following all laws and never making any mistakes.

In fact...it is impossible because no matter how badly you want it...all people are human and prone to making a mistake now and again....including pilots and mechanics and airport security.

But you and I likely agree strongly on one thing...we all what what ever is reasonable and prudent to be done to prevent all leaks...and if it happens respond quickly, appropriately and effectively to minimize the damage and make reparations and mitigations to the affected areas afterwards.

pickrel pat
06-11-2012, 08:42 AM
and right at the time when ducks, geese, and shore birds are hatching. oil and birds mix about as well as oil and water. hope this gets taken care of as fast and efficient as humanly possible!(I realise that **** happens and just hope it gets all the cleanup attention it deserves.)

MountainTi
06-11-2012, 09:32 AM
and right at the time when ducks, geese, and shore birds are hatching. oil and birds mix about as well as oil and water. hope this gets taken care of as fast and efficient as humanly possible!(I realise that **** happens and just hope it gets all the cleanup attention it deserves.)

I'm sure it will get a LOT of attenion, due to the fact it has contaminated a moving water body, and also due to the fact that there is now so much publicity surrounding it, which is a good thing. I never heard anything about the Rainbow Lake spill that is the largest since 1975 till this spill. Media attention isn't always a bad thing

tight line
06-11-2012, 10:43 AM
wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaa waaa cry me a oil filled river. this is a fishing site, not a whining about oil companies site. bad deal all around though...

im goin fishing...

pickrel pat
06-11-2012, 10:49 AM
im goin fishing...

good....... go.

fish gunner
06-11-2012, 11:28 AM
An analogy that would make more sense that if you build 1,000,000 homes...how many burn down or have roof leaks or the foundation sinks or cracks etc. It happens a lot...and the mitigation covers initial builders warranty followed by out of pocket expenses. Perfection definitely does not happen in home building period.

Comparing a house falling down to a pipeline...not realistic. Comparing a pilot crashing...ludicrous.

I understand for you this is an emotional issue so it is hard to debate facts and real life versus utopia but you have to face the fact that stuff happens. Farmers have accidents that kill kids. Ambulances crash into people at intersections. The manufacturing industry has deaths. People get killed with lightning on golf courses.

If you go around saying everyone has to be perfect...it needs to start in the mirror with you coming up with ways to make everything around you perfect. Work, job, neighbours, following all laws and never making any mistakes.

In fact...it is impossible because no matter how badly you want it...all people are human and prone to making a mistake now and again....including pilots and mechanics and airport security.

But you and I likely agree strongly on one thing...we all what what ever is reasonable and prudent to be done to prevent all leaks...and if it happens respond quickly, appropriately and effectively to minimize the damage and make reparations and mitigations to the affected areas afterwards.

yes this is an emotional issue that is my home river, the drinking water for my community & friends come from that river. the lake is where we play in the summer. the river was on the mend from the last spill, trout were returning . I have built a hundred homes. none will fall down unless they are uncared for by the owner. ,my field of work is unlightly to cause whole scale destruction. I understand logging to provide wood for homes has in the past. I tree planted to a summer I have seen the results of poor logging practice's

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 11:45 AM
yes this is an emotional issue that is my home river, the drinking water for my community & friends come from that river. the lake is where we play in the summer. the river was on the mend from the last spill, trout were returning . I have built a hundred homes. none will fall down unless they are uncared for by the owner. ,my field of work is unlightly to cause whole scale destruction. I understand logging to provide wood for homes has in the past. I tree planted to a summer I have seen the results of poor logging practice's

I understand completely. There were lots of upset people from the spill on Wabamun. It is important to have the emotional aspect and that is one primary reason why the regulations are so strict in Alberta compared to elsewhere. We hold industry to a very high standard and when problems happen, there is a lot of resources mobilized.

Logging has been bad for Alberta. To this day the pulp mills pump thousands of gallons of dioxin ladden effluent into rivers. Regulations allow them to increase release of pollutants into rivers by dilution factors versus tonnage. Increase the volume of water to mix more pollution with...

Logging has caused stream erosion. Many areas are slow to be replanted. Bridges/Culverts stopping fish migration. Roads increasing fishing pressure to pristine areas. Clear cuts destroy the areas recreational value. Mixed forest ecosytems destroyed via plantation style planting. Elk, moose, deer and caribou reduction due to increased predation by both hunters and wolves that can travel corridors easier. Logging is way, way less of regulated industry when compared to oil and gas.

While a spill has an effect...it is not as long lasting as the dioxin mats on the bottom of the Athabasca River.

6tmile
06-11-2012, 12:02 PM
what happens when you let non union scum build and operate

This comment above is truly written by someone that couldnt make a living working in the real world, do you believe your union brothers and sisters would be proud of your comment. In the real world you are RESPONSIBLE for your actions, and are judged by your work ethic and professionalism. If you screw up its your but in a sling, you have to be accountable for your actions.:snapoutofit:

BGSH
06-11-2012, 12:13 PM
You are all arguing like dummies, what is wrong with you? point is there is now oil in the R.d.r, now they have to figure out how to clean it fast and keep it from happening again, you cannot get anything done here if you argue with each other what are you all in like grade 2 or grade 3?

ReconWilly
06-11-2012, 01:56 PM
WOW!! environmental disaster sure brings out the best in people errrrrrrrrrrrr at least it should...


If the apologists think that the situation is overblown i suggest you take a drive and speak to the affected land owners, maybe then your false impressions will subside.


Seriously though, where did all the intellectuals go?

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 02:49 PM
WOW!! environmental disaster sure brings out the best in people errrrrrrrrrrrr at least it should...


If the apologists think that the situation is overblown i suggest you take a drive and speak to the affected land owners, maybe then your false impressions will subside.


Seriously though, where did all the intellectuals go?

I did not read the thread like you. I don't see anyone making light of the spill. I

get the sense everyone wishes it did not happen.

Some people think all oil and gas activity should cease in the Province (because no system can be make perfect) while others say if it was negligence, the company should pay and if it was an accident the learnings should help prevent it from happening again or significantly reduce it.

Everyone agrees that it needs to be cleaned up fast.

Maybe you are just misinterpreting the average person and making the same mistake of labeling everyone falsely or falsely labeling a group as being bad when they are not.

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 02:51 PM
You are all arguing like dummies, what is wrong with you? point is there is now oil in the R.d.r, now they have to figure out how to clean it fast and keep it from happening again, you cannot get anything done here if you argue with each other what are you all in like grade 2 or grade 3?

I am a mirror and you are glue...what ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.

I know you are but what am I?

Teacher...guess what Shawn said about you?

:bad_boys_20:

ReconWilly
06-11-2012, 03:40 PM
I did not read the thread like you. I don't see anyone making light of the spill. I

get the sense everyone wishes it did not happen.

Some people think all oil and gas activity should cease in the Province (because no system can be make perfect) while others say if it was negligence, the company should pay and if it was an accident the learnings should help prevent it from happening again or significantly reduce it.

Everyone agrees that it needs to be cleaned up fast.

Maybe you are just misinterpreting the average person and making the same mistake of labeling everyone falsely or falsely labeling a group as being bad when they are not.


Accountability is all anyone can hope for.

Oil is unfortunately a necessary evil of the word we all live in.

Sorry if you took my general comments personal.

Some people sadly are directly affected, unlike us observers from afar, its one thing to have an opinion from where we stand but imagine for a second that this happened in your backyard...

Down playing the situation hurts those directly affected by the situation and comes across as offensive.

I'm not sure that you can over exaggerate an oil spill on your river front property, i'm just glad its not my property and i feel for them the most, how long will it take them to trust the system again?

Theres no need to label anyone, everyone is who they are.

Sundancefisher
06-11-2012, 04:13 PM
Accountability is all anyone can hope for.

Oil is unfortunately a necessary evil of the word we all live in.

Sorry if you took my general comments personal.

Some people sadly are directly affected, unlike us observers from afar, its one thing to have an opinion from where we stand but imagine for a second that this happened in your backyard...

Down playing the situation hurts those directly affected by the situation and comes across as offensive.

I'm not sure that you can over exaggerate an oil spill on your river front property, i'm just glad its not my property and i feel for them the most, how long will it take them to trust the system again?

Theres no need to label anyone, everyone is who they are.

All I can do is speak from experience both having worked in the environmental business and in the oil and gas business.

Nothing makes a company freak out and pour money and resources into a problem more than an environmental problem. Employees can be fired for causing it...and can be rewarded for preventing it. There are many checks and balances in place to stop it from happening and the cost of a spill is magnitudes more than fixing it before it happens and the horrible publicity makes the Executives loose tons of sleep.

All I can say is trust me when I state that these issues are never ever taken as trivial or laughed about in board rooms or ignored for other budgetary items.

In fact where I work...all meetings start with safety and environmental updates with a strong emphasis on correcting and preventing problems.

I don't take any comments on here personally. We all have our triggers...environmental is also one of mine and my company is top notch. But still...bad things happen that you don't want to. It is the nature of life. The only guarantees we all have is death and taxes.

youngfisher
06-12-2012, 07:52 AM
Has anyone been out to the Dickson Trout Pond recently? Was it affected by the spill? I know that it is a seperate basin but I wasn't sure if it was connected to the lake somehow.

Aside from all the argument, the damage was done - no amount of money or punishment can change that. It's a shame.

Isopod
06-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Does anyone know if fishing has been closed anywhere due to the spill? I heard a rumour that in the first few days they were stopping people from fishing Glennifer Lake. I'm particularly wondering about the Red Deer River from Dickson to the city of Red Deer.

Mikezilk
06-12-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh where to start.

As a Safety Advisor in the Oil, Gas and Petro Chemical industries let me start by saying this spill has me just reeling. I have been asking questions of corporate execs and politicians alike for a long time as to why certain installations of pipeline are done the way they are. But we all know I will never get to voice my concerns to anyone who can truly effect change.

This spill had a VERY Very fast response time. Probably the fast in any Alberta Spill to date. That being said it maddens me that it actually happened.

Glennifer Lake and Dickson Trout Pond were going to be the home of our Second Annual Eastslope Kayak Fishing Classic. Well that is dead and gone now.

Glennifer is off limits and access to Dickson Trout Pond is closed so fishing there is not feasible for this summer more than likely.

Now for the part people will discuss. With any luck there should not be too much damage done to the lake and hopefully they will get it cleaned up very soon. I know people always say how the oil is going to kill everything but honestly... some people need to open their eyes. I am sure many of us have seen the oil leeching from a river bank somewhere. It happens in nature all the time. Granted not in this amount but fingers crossed we do not loose a great fishery due to aged equipment and poor work practices.

fish gunner
06-13-2012, 08:20 AM
boots on the ground is my way. so any one wishing to help get your self down to the james river hall and get your self registered as a volunteer. the folks at the plains incident center are helpful and welcoming to any that wish to help once the incident has been deemed safe for non qualified individuals. my boots are packed awaiting the call to help. any that need further info feel free to pm myself and I will give what info I have.
jeff.

tight line
06-13-2012, 09:23 AM
I tip my hat to you FishGunner. My Whhaaa Whaa comment was not directed at you, or the others truely concerned in any way, more so at the people pionting fingers, and just looking for something to B@#$h about. I wade & pontoon the red deer and take my family there, and is pretty close to home for me. unforunately am unable to come help. Good on anyone that can help!

braggadoe
06-17-2012, 08:10 AM
The Gateway line is not for Natural gas,........and I don't think you want to be digging up a line to lay a common line beside it????....wow, the lawyers would get rich there if there was ever a leak....

sorry for bringing this up again, but come on hal. the trans mouintain pipeline has been in operration since 1958. for someone that is in the bussiness, you should be aware of this,,,no?

http://www.kne.com/business/canada/transmountain.cfm

what's my point???

my point is, there is NO reason the ngpl can't be built beside/parallel to the transmountain line.

Sundancefisher
06-17-2012, 09:35 AM
sorry for bringing this up again, but come on hal. the trans mouintain pipeline has been in operration since 1958. for someone that is in the bussiness, you should be aware of this,,,no?

http://www.kne.com/business/canada/transmountain.cfm

what's my point???

my point is, there is NO reason the ngpl can't be built beside/parallel to the transmountain line.

Companies don't pull up old lines...there is to much surface disturbance even if you just tried to pull out smaller lengths. That being said...once steel prices jump high enough...all the old pipelines in the Province will be a gold mine for salvage.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/06/16/government-satisfied-by-oil-cleanup

Sounds like they are moving it along. The government does not lay fines or charges until after the investigation and after the clean up...so we will see what happens.

Twinning an existing line is easier but still requires the whole process.

Are you and hal arguing about different things? You are talking natural gas pipeline...hal is talking about an oil pipeline.

braggadoe
06-17-2012, 10:05 AM
i'm talking about the ngpl, hal and many others seem unaware that there is already an oil/crude line too an exsisting port facilialty in vancouver. doesn't seem to me and alot of other people, that building a new line, to a new facilaty. putting the skeena and the north coast at risk makes much sense. if we really need to supply china with oil, than lets build the new line beside the exsisting transmountian pipeline, keeping it all along one route.

http://www.kne.com/business/canada/TMX_Documentation/TMX_Expansion_Map.pdf


who cares if it takes 24 hr longer to ship it from vancouver to china.

i realize that the ngpl has nothing to do with the red deer spill, but it does show the importance of planning where we put these lines for/in the future.

Sundancefisher
06-17-2012, 10:42 AM
i'm talking about the ngpl, hal and many others seem unaware that there is already an oil/crude line too an exsisting port facilialty in vancouver. doesn't seem to me and alot of other people, that building a new line, to a new facilaty. putting the skeena and the north coast at risk makes much sense. if we really need to supply china with oil, than lets build the new line beside the exsisting transmountian pipeline, keeping it all along one route.

http://www.kne.com/business/canada/TMX_Documentation/TMX_Expansion_Map.pdf


who cares if it takes 24 hr longer to ship it from vancouver to china.

i realize that the ngpl has nothing to do with the red deer spill, but it does show the importance of planning where we put these lines for/in the future.

That is the kind of proactive debate that the system needs. Reflecting the need for a pipeline and then just looking at all the economic, socio-economic, environmental and logistical factors to where it should go.

Calgaryguy1977
06-17-2012, 02:22 PM
It's a fishing forum guys......unless it pertains to the fishery and what impact it has on the fishery then this type of discussion prob has no place on this forum.
Just saying, lol

MrDave
06-17-2012, 03:33 PM
These pics are from one spot out by Kevisville. There is a pool of oil in the pile of treesabout ten feet in diameter.
We walked down along this narrow wash. Every step we took had a sheen of oil in it. This is through a farm pasture. Every corner, rock and root that is along the current side of the river is contaminated.l
This spill makes me shiver. I have worked on 15 spills in my life and this is one of the worst I have seen.
People had better realize what is to come. Water rationing for communities down stream will be happening soon. There's not going to be any reserve of water because its going to take all summer to clean the banks of the river and lake.
This is not a little spill that will be cleaned up in a couple weeks. Folks its time to wise up.Stop making yourselves look like fools by arguing. If you were TRUE outdoorsmen/women you would be showing concern for this watershed. Its almost totally destroyed for 40 kilometers or so. I expect the river to be closed to fishing for a couple of seasons not months.

MrDave
06-17-2012, 03:41 PM
I hope people will realize how massive of an effort it is going to take to clean this up. Its going to take a lot of foot work as most of the mess is away from roads. Hope to see some of you out helping clean up.

outdoorsmen101
06-17-2012, 04:15 PM
I visited the James River Hall today and met with the Plains personnel representing them. They explained everything in detail and I was VERY impressed with their sincerity. As unfortunate as this spill and the resulting effects are, they satisfied me that they are doing everything possible to rectify this.

I read FishGunner's post and did not add my name to the volunteer list, but will do so tomorrow. I wish our new MLA would get his head out of his a** and instead of grandstanding with negativity to the media, put forward some positive ideas and thoughts. Some people seem to eat up his style of getting attention, but it does not do anything to solve the issues at hand.

ReconWilly
06-17-2012, 06:29 PM
These pics are from one spot out by Kevisville. There is a pool of oil in the pile of treesabout ten feet in diameter.
We walked down along this narrow wash. Every step we took had a sheen of oil in it. This is through a farm pasture. Every corner, rock and root that is along the current side of the river is contaminated.l
This spill makes me shiver. I have worked on 15 spills in my life and this is one of the worst I have seen.
People had better realize what is to come. Water rationing for communities down stream will be happening soon. There's not going to be any reserve of water because its going to take all summer to clean the banks of the river and lake.
This is not a little spill that will be cleaned up in a couple weeks. Folks its time to wise up.Stop making yourselves look like fools by arguing. If you were TRUE outdoorsmen/women you would be showing concern for this watershed. Its almost totally destroyed for 40 kilometers or so. I expect the river to be closed to fishing for a couple of seasons not months.

"Its being contained"

"We are sorry"

"The severity of the situation is being sensationalized"

Do any of the above statements offer you any comfort or peace of mind?

This will be a test of leadership, and those who've invested trust in them.

WABBIT
07-03-2012, 05:08 PM
Was out on Glennifer on Friday night, north side of the Carefree resort peninsula. Noticed a lot of balls of foam floating on the water that smelled like oil. Also noticed a fairly large area in 20 feet of water, where there was a 2 - 3 ft layer of clutter showing at around the 8 foot mark. I dropped a spoon down about 10 feet it came up with an definate oily film on it. I thought that oil always floated on water, can all the sediment stirred up in the water have caused some of the oil to sink?