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dono
06-21-2012, 07:31 PM
just curious, my brother inlaw does not have his PAL,and is taking the course but will not have his PAL by the time hunting season arrives, my question is can he be lent a gun by the guys in camp or does he need immediate supervision? seemslike he should be able to since my daughter can if she is with me and only 12 yrs old

riden
06-21-2012, 07:44 PM
just curious, my brother inlaw does not have his PAL,and is taking the course but will not have his PAL by the time hunting season arrives, my question is can he be lent a gun by the guys in camp or does he need immediate supervision? seemslike he should be able to since my daughter can if she is with me and only 12 yrs old

If he is taking the course, he should have it before hunting season.

SImple answer, no PAL means direct supervision.

Killerb
06-21-2012, 07:48 PM
Gotta be in direct supervision. Is he native or bow hunts? I just find it odd that he got a hunting license before his PAL

gitrdun
06-21-2012, 07:51 PM
How did you come by your PAL?

winger7mm
06-21-2012, 08:18 PM
Gotta be in direct supervision. Is he native or bow hunts? I just find it odd that he got a hunting license before his PAL

Pretty easy. I started hunting when I was 12, show me the pal you can get where you can carry your own gun alone by yourself at 12???

Mekanik
06-21-2012, 08:43 PM
Hunting licence does not require PAL. The rules are direct supervision, meaning within arm's length of the holder of the PAL.


PITA really. Try doing a spot and stalk with your supervisor texting.

dono
06-21-2012, 09:26 PM
for starters not sure what gives u the right to question my PAL, and i do not see anywhere in my post that claims my daughter is alone when carrying her gun alone when we are hunting, i simply was asking if being an adult did he need direct supervision

keeks
06-21-2012, 09:33 PM
Dono, just ignore dumb responses like that. He is just trolling.

Btw, I bought my PAL from a pawn shop. Even took a real nice new pic for me at no extra charge.

dono
06-21-2012, 09:36 PM
lol thanks dude, not sure why he took hunting license first, probably because the course happened first,so can he carry a gun under direct supervision?

sheephunter
06-21-2012, 10:03 PM
lol thanks dude, not sure why he took hunting license first, probably because the course happened first,so can he carry a gun under direct supervision?

Yup, he sure can! I'd say most people get their hunter ed first. No real surprise there.

300wsm3006rem
06-21-2012, 10:09 PM
If a person does not have their PAL/POL/FAC; and they with to handle a firearm LEGALLY... They NEED to be under direct supervision of a person who is a current holder of a PAL. Expired PALs are NOT current (renew!)

By direct supervision that means the following:
Within audible distance of the PAL holder, where the holder of the license can communicate with the unlicensed person without use of voice amplification. You can't talk normally and be able to comprehend what they are saying, it's illegal.
You need to be within visible range of the holder of the pal. This pretty is a given with being within audible range, but if the person shooting can't be seen by the pal holder. You're illegal.

There's really no grey area here. Visual and audible ranges ONLY.

If he is doing his PAL course right now, he will have no issues having his PAL by the time hunting season comes around. I did mine at the end of feb of this year, had my license in my pocket by the middle of April. You can get it thru the system in no time at all if you phone in and harass them... There is a walkthru on the forums here if I remember correctly.

Best of luck!

elkhunter11
06-21-2012, 10:12 PM
By direct supervision that means the following:
Within audible distance of the PAL holder, where the holder of the license can communicate with the unlicensed person without use of voice amplification. You can't talk normally and be able to comprehend what they are saying, it's illegal.
You need to be within visible range of the holder of the pal. This pretty is a given with being within audible range, but if the person shooting can't be seen by the pal holder. You're illegal.

There's really no grey area here. Visual and audible ranges ONLY.

Where did you find that definition of "direct supervision"? Do you have a link to a credible source, as that is not the definition taught in many PAL courses.

Lefty-Canuck
06-21-2012, 10:18 PM
If a person does not have their PAL/POL/FAC; and they with to handle a firearm LEGALLY... They NEED to be under direct supervision of a person who is a current holder of a PAL. Expired PALs are NOT current (renew!)

By direct supervision that means the following:
Within audible distance of the PAL holder, where the holder of the license can communicate with the unlicensed person without use of voice amplification. You can't talk normally and be able to comprehend what they are saying, it's illegal.
You need to be within visible range of the holder of the pal. This pretty is a given with being within audible range, but if the person shooting can't be seen by the pal holder. You're illegal.

There's really no grey area here. Visual and audible ranges ONLY.

If he is doing his PAL course right now, he will have no issues having his PAL by the time hunting season comes around. I did mine at the end of feb of this year, had my license in my pocket by the middle of April. You can get it thru the system in no time at all if you phone in and harass them... There is a walkthru on the forums here if I remember correctly.

Best of luck!



NO NO NO.... :)

You are confusing "Direct Supervision" with "Direct Communication"

Direct supervision is arms length....that way you can take immediate control of the firearm if needed.

Direct communication is within audible "voice" (not gunshot range) or visual range ,can communicate via hand signals or can always see the other party. Direct communication is usually in accordance with a "partner" tag where the intent is 2 hunters hunt as 1. The use of electronic devices (cell phone, walkie talkie, radios) is not allowed to be classified as "direct communication".

LC

Big Daddy Badger
06-21-2012, 11:45 PM
I wonder how many guys are going to get nailed for wandering to far from the PAL holder while hunting this year.

It's a pretty common practice and with the changes to SRD and the shorter seasons returned etc...I think F&W might find time to be more interested in whether or not you have a PAL...than they have been in the past.

If you do not have a PAL and are hunting...I'd be mindful of how far you are from your partner.

johnjohn
06-22-2012, 05:56 AM
Gotta be in direct supervision. Is he native or bow hunts? I just find it odd that he got a hunting license before his PAL

Who didnt get their hunting licence before their PAL ion here?

dadof5
06-22-2012, 07:06 AM
I wonder how many guys are going to get nailed for wandering to far from the PAL holder while hunting this year.

It's a pretty common practice and with the changes to SRD and the shorter seasons returned etc...I think F&W might find time to be more interested in whether or not you have a PAL...than they have been in the past.

If you do not have a PAL and are hunting...I'd be mindful of how far you are from your partner.

I'm sure they still will find better things to do. I have spoken with a few F&W officers about this because I was was surprised that they didn't look into the PAL. Was told they have the right to to do so (no doubt on that), but their primary objective is to enforce provincial laws and regulations rather than federal laws. If they found problems with the provincial laws such as lack of licence, then they said they might proceed with further inspections.

elkhunter11
06-22-2012, 07:30 AM
I'm sure they still will find better things to do. I have spoken with a few F&W officers about this because I was was surprised that they didn't look into the PAL. Was told they have the right to to do so (no doubt on that), but their primary objective is to enforce provincial laws and regulations rather than federal laws. If they found problems with the provincial laws such as lack of licence, then they said they might proceed with further inspections.

Like any other law, some people will choose not to comply, and if charged and convicted, they will complain a lot, when they could have simply obtained their PAL in the first place, and avoided any issues.

riden
06-22-2012, 07:30 AM
Where did you find that definition of "direct supervision"? Do you have a link to a credible source, as that is not the definition taught in many PAL courses.

I may be wrong, but I have never seen a definition of direct supervision for firearms. Minors need to be "arms length" away when hunting, and I think a lot of peope appply that to firearms.

I don't think there is a hard and fast definition and provincial CFO's have made their own definintion.

Example: I believe some provinces (not Alberta) define it as 1 PAL +2 shooters= 1 gun

duffy4
06-22-2012, 07:36 AM
If a person does not have their PAL/POL/FAC; and they with to handle a firearm LEGALLY... They NEED to be under direct supervision of a person who is a current holder of a PAL. Expired PALs are NOT current (renew!)

By direct supervision that means the following:
Within audible distance of the PAL holder, where the holder of the license can communicate with the unlicensed person without use of voice amplification. You can't talk normally and be able to comprehend what they are saying, it's illegal.
You need to be within visible range of the holder of the pal. This pretty is a given with being within audible range, but if the person shooting can't be seen by the pal holder. You're illegal.

There's really no grey area here. Visual and audible ranges ONLY.



If he is doing his PAL course right now, he will have no issues having his PAL by the time hunting season comes around. I did mine at the end of feb of this year, had my license in my pocket by the middle of April. You can get it thru the system in no time at all if you phone in and harass them... There is a walkthru on the forums here if I remember correctly.

Best of luck!


I also would like to know where you got this (a direct quote from some legislation would be best)

It seems to me to be a more reasonable definition than the "arms length" that people often put forth, also without a quote from any legislation.

riden
06-22-2012, 08:29 AM
I'm sure they still will find better things to do. I have spoken with a few F&W officers about this because I was was surprised that they didn't look into the PAL. Was told they have the right to to do so (no doubt on that), but their primary objective is to enforce provincial laws and regulations rather than federal laws. If they found problems with the provincial laws such as lack of licence, then they said they might proceed with further inspections.

I used to ask all the time in my PAL courses if anyone has ever been asked by F&W (yes, almost everyone in my classes are already hunting) and the only ones who have ever said they have are natives.

Okotokian
06-22-2012, 08:37 AM
Who didnt get their hunting licence before their PAL ion here?

First son and I got our PAL first.

Second son just got his hunting license and is just in the process of completing the PAL paperwork (has taken the course) so he is the opposite. I pushed him on the hunting so we could do draws. He will put in for the PAL ASAP but if it doesn't arrive by Sept we can still waterfowl or do upland side by side.

Mutter87
06-22-2012, 08:42 AM
Sorry officer, I forgot my pal at home. And what business is it of theirs anyways? I have a hunting license and win card, mind your own!

Okotokian
06-22-2012, 08:46 AM
Sorry officer, I forgot my pal at home. And what business is it of theirs anyways? I have a hunting license and win card, mind your own!

Depends entirely on whether the "Officer" is wearing green vs black.

Mekanik
06-22-2012, 08:53 AM
http://www.huntingfortomorrow.com/HFTF_Home/FACT%20SHEETS/FS%207%20Oct%2008.pdf

Can I hunt without a valid firearms license? Yes, youth and adults can hunt without a valid firearms license as long as they are under the immediate and direct supervision of the individual legally entitled to possess and use that firearm. Immediate and direct is defined by the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC) as within arms length

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/faq/tran-cess-eng.htm

Q. Can I borrow a firearm that is registered to someone else?

Yes, if the individual has a firearms licence for that class of firearm. When individuals borrow restricted or prohibited firearms, the lender must also lend them the registration certificates so they can provide proof that the firearms are registered.

....

Individuals who you do not have a firearms licence, or who are not licensed for the class of firearm they wish to borrow, may borrow the firearm only if they are under the direct and immediate supervision of an appropriately licensed adult (aged 18 or older) and there are no court orders prohibiting them from possessing firearms or other weapons.

two quick links, the second one is the one I trust the most. google is wonderful.

oh, and the RCMP need to update their site. "registered"? wtf is that?
:sHa_shakeshout: