Competitive Fishing Event Licencing Survey

[Rob Miskosky]

The Government of Alberta is gathering feedback from the public on how it currently regulates sportfishing and competitive fishing events in the province. Take the survey here: http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/FishingLicensesFees/CompetitiveFishingEvents/CompetitiveFishingEventLicencingSurvey.aspx

[bobalong]

I just completed the survey, but some of their facts/comments are out to lunch. A mortality of 350 walleye at a tournament is completely ridiculous and is only listed to inflame non-tournament anglers.........shame on them.
I have been fishing competitive events for over 20 years, and even back in the early days when the fish were weighed on shore, the mortality was not even close to that.
Once again their management technique is try and instigate a conflict between all the users, sport, commercial and tournament anglers (also sport anglers). By doing this they have all the user groups blaming each other for the state of the fishery, instead of focusing on the real problem, which is mis-managament of our fisheries (walleye) because of a lack of funding and commitment, required for long term success.
I know that recently they have initiated some walleye stocking programs, and added more "tag" lakes, but due to the fact that walleye are the most popular sport fish in the province, much, much more funding is required IMO, not only for walleye, but for pike and perch as well.

[Mark H]

Wow.. I did the survey, there was alot of fear monguering in it.

[wind drift]

That was a hypothetical figure. You seem to be instigating conflict here. Maybe 350 isn't so out to lunch anyway. A 2 day event with 100 folks registered, with at least one day of pre-fishing could result in close to that. Assuming the fishing day is 8 hours long and folks catch on average 3 fish per hour (because they're good, right), that's 2400 walleye caught per day. If it's hot and windy, let's say mortality is 5% (I know...it could never be that high, right?), so that's 125 dead walleye per day, and 250 in total over the two days. But then add in some pre-fishing, with say 50 folks fishing for 8 hours, with the same catch rate and mortality rate and you get another 60 deads. The catch and release mortality for the event is now 310. But wait, some of those 50 pre-fishers were fishing on their regular licence, and 30 of them killed just one for the table. Now the total is 340. Getting darned close to 350, but we haven't accounted for the bad actors that "released" a dead or near-dead walleye from their livewells during the event, because the rules say that you can't register a dead fish. Could be another 10...? Doesn't matter much anyway, we're splitting hairs at this point.

Doesn't seem to out to lunch to me, but I totally admit to possibly not thinking clearly.

[RockHammer&Rod]

That was a hypothetical figure. You seem to be instigating conflict here. Maybe 350 isn't so out to lunch anyway. A 2 day event with 100 folks registered, with at least one day of pre-fishing could result in close to that. Assuming the fishing day is 8 hours long and folks catch on average 3 fish per hour (because they're good, right), that's 2400 walleye caught per day. If it's hot and windy, let's say mortality is 5% (I know...it could never be that high, right?), so that's 125 dead walleye per day, and 250 in total over the two days. But then add in some pre-fishing, with say 50 folks fishing for 8 hours, with the same catch rate and mortality rate and you get another 60 deads. The catch and release mortality for the event is now 310. But wait, some of those 50 pre-fishers were fishing on their regular licence, and 30 of them killed just one for the table. Now the total is 340. Getting darned close to 350, but we haven't accounted for the bad actors that "released" a dead or near-dead walleye from their livewells during the event, because the rules say that you can't register a dead fish. Could be another 10...? Doesn't matter much anyway, we're splitting hairs at this point.

Doesn't seem to out to lunch to me, but I totally admit to possibly not thinking clearly.

Doesn't sound too far fetched to me either.. Those fish sloshing around in the livewell have to be a bit sea sick.. pardon the pun.

Actually I just read this before seeing your posts on here. Black Bass aka Largies (I know we're talking different everything) have a 43% mortality rate after tourneys... See for yourself

[italk2u]

I got the impression the questions were skewed in such a manner that the non-tournament anglers would be voting against tournaments.

[Wild&Free]

I wonder what people's posistions on this would be if there were hunting tournaments like there were fishing tournaments.

[slivers86]

Survey taken, I actually learnt a bit from reading it all and taking the survey!

[warriorboy10]

The Government of Alberta is gathering feedback from the public on how it currently regulates sportfishing and competitive fishing events in the province. Take the survey here: http://mywildalberta.com/BuyLicences/FishingLicensesFees/CompetitiveFishingEvents/CompetitiveFishingEventLicencingSurvey.aspx



Nothing like throwing out inaccurate, outdated information to take the blame from a complete mismanagement of our lakes. it's pathetic!! The survey also!!
It makes me SICK!!

[bobalong]

That was a hypothetical figure. You seem to be instigating conflict here. Maybe 350 isn't so out to lunch anyway. A 2 day event with 100 folks registered, with at least one day of pre-fishing could result in close to that. Assuming the fishing day is 8 hours long and folks catch on average 3 fish per hour (because they're good, right), that's 2400 walleye caught per day. If it's hot and windy, let's say mortality is 5% (I know...it could never be that high, right?), so that's 125 dead walleye per day, and 250 in total over the two days. But then add in some pre-fishing, with say 50 folks fishing for 8 hours, with the same catch rate and mortality rate and you get another 60 deads. The catch and release mortality for the event is now 310. But wait, some of those 50 pre-fishers were fishing on their regular licence, and 30 of them killed just one for the table. Now the total is 340. Getting darned close to 350, but we haven't accounted for the bad actors that "released" a dead or near-dead walleye from their livewells during the event, because the rules say that you can't register a dead fish. Could be another 10...? Doesn't matter much anyway, we're splitting hairs at this point.

Doesn't seem to out to lunch to me, but I totally admit to possibly not thinking clearly.

The problem with your numbers is basically the same as the problem with SRD's, they are chosen at random, and not based on fact. SRD has been invited on numerous occassions to come out and observe a tournament, or all of them, put in test cages, check livewell temperatures, basically check any thing they like, that may effect fish mortality......they have declined for years, with the exception of a couple of lame attempts which proved nothing.

When you are filling out a survey on fishing, hunting or anything really, would it not be more valid if your were commenting on facts that have been acquired by testing or doing studies, rather than "what ifs", "lets assume" and maybes.

The last thing I am trying to do is initiate a conflict between anglers, and I believe all of my comments are directed at the SRD and not at any of the angler groups listed. My comments were made in an attempt to inform anglers (and non anglers) that the numbers and comments in the survey have been skewed, and that you realize that, if you decide to complete the the survey. If you agree with the numbers and comments they listed, that is up to you, all that I will add is that you attend one of the tournaments in this province and see for yourself. Then you will have the facts.

Despite many requests for SRD to do a study on tournaments (by tournament groups) in this province, which they declined, a few years ago one of the tournament groups submitted a proposal/application for a comprehensive study on tournaments in northern Alberta to the ACA, it was declined as well.

I would not try and imply that there is no fish mortality at tournaments, I have witnessed that not to be the case. What I am saying is that the numbers have been exaggertated to the extreme, and comments made ("tournament mortality numbers of fish will have to be taken away from sport anglers") to intentionly try and portray tournament organizers, the clubs, and the anglers who participate in them as very detrimental to our fisheries. This is fear-mongoring at it's worst......and once again, I say shame on them.

[pikergolf]

What a joke, take away fish from the public and give to tournaments, not in this life time. If these guys wanna be hot shot pros, target species outside the box, have a few sucker fish tourneys, then you'll find out who can fish.

[Wild&Free]

What a joke, take away fish from the public and give to tournaments, not in this life time. If these guys wanna be hot shot pros, target species outside the box, have a few sucker fish tourneys, then you'll find out who can fish.

x2

[wind drift]

The problem with your numbers is basically the same as the problem with SRD's, they are chosen at random, and not based on fact. SRD has been invited on numerous occassions to come out and observe a tournament, or all of them, put in test cages, check livewell temperatures, basically check any thing they like, that may effect fish mortality......they have declined for years, with the exception of a couple of lame attempts which proved nothing.

When you are filling out a survey on fishing, hunting or anything really, would it not be more valid if your were commenting on facts that have been acquired by testing or doing studies, rather than "what ifs", "lets assume" and maybes.

The last thing I am trying to do is initiate a conflict between anglers, and I believe all of my comments are directed at the SRD and not at any of the angler groups listed. My comments were made in an attempt to inform anglers (and non anglers) that the numbers and comments in the survey have been skewed, and that you realize that, if you decide to complete the the survey. If you agree with the numbers and comments they listed, that is up to you, all that I will add is that you attend one of the tournaments in this province and see for yourself. Then you will have the facts.

Despite many requests for SRD to do a study on tournaments (by tournament groups) in this province, which they declined, a few years ago one of the tournament groups submitted a proposal/application for a comprehensive study on tournaments in northern Alberta to the ACA, it was declined as well.

I would not try and imply that there is no fish mortality at tournaments, I have witnessed that not to be the case. What I am saying is that the numbers have been exaggertated to the extreme, and comments made ("tournament mortality numbers of fish will have to be taken away from sport anglers") to intentionly try and portray tournament organizers, the clubs, and the anglers who participate in them as very detrimental to our fisheries. This is fear-mongoring at it's worst......and once again, I say shame on them.

The mortality rates used by SRD are based on studies and information presented and agreed to at the Fisheries Round Table. Representatives of the tournaments user group participate at these meetings. Good information is posted on the SRD website. I'm sure not all tournament anglers agree with the rates, but that doesn't mean they're inaccurate or exaggerated, just contentious and disagreeable to some. Comments about tournament 'harvest' affecting other users aren't made-up or imflammatory, just accurate reflection of policy. You took the survey so you must have seen the priority ranking for allocation of fish. Tournaments are the lowest priority. According to policy, that's the way it has to be. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

[Winch101]

I think it is realistic to believe that the average angler has no interest in seeing Walleye tournaments on his or her favourite lake .
Because there is no way to measure the trauma caused on fish when being angled . The mortality rate could be higher than the numbers stipulated ...
or lower . Their are surveys done in the USA that discouraged tournaments
over the years .

The answer is ...no livewells ...C&R ....referees in each boat ....

inches only are accumulated immediate release....all fish are photographed .

and Drug Testing of the reffs of course.

[ReconWilly]

What a joke, take away fish from the public and give to tournaments, not in this life time. If these guys wanna be hot shot pros, target species outside the box, have a few sucker fish tourneys, then you'll find out who can fish.

Exactly.

Tournaments exploit the resources and nothing more, shame on tha G O V for "PIMPIN" the publics resources.

Apologists will predictably respond with economic spin off propaganda "blah blah blah" local economy this "blah blah blah" tourism that "blah blah blah", theres always a $price$ and we all pay in the end...

Would there be less fishermen fishing if there were no tournaments to compete in?

Now factor in the possibility that there was more meat up for grabs, less fishermen fishing?

I think not.

I'm honestly not against tournament fishing, but it's definitely having an effect on public resources that should be allocated to the public, no offence..just saying...why not poll the public to gauge their feelings on the matter...hmmmmm wait a minute... what was this thread about again...:shark:

[bobalong]

The mortality rates used by SRD are based on studies and information presented and agreed to at the Fisheries Round Table. Representatives of the tournaments user group participate at these meetings. Good information is posted on the SRD website. I'm sure not all tournament anglers agree with the rates, but that doesn't mean they're inaccurate or exaggerated, just contentious and disagreeable to some. Comments about tournament 'harvest' affecting other users aren't made-up or imflammatory, just accurate reflection of policy. You took the survey so you must have seen the priority ranking for allocation of fish. Tournaments are the lowest priority. According to policy, that's the way it has to be. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

I actually agree that tournaments are the lowest priority, just don't agree with how they got the mortality numbers, and I am familiar with the Roundtable as I was a member when it originated and for a few years after.

[Iron Byron]

[QUOTE=bobalong;1619602]
I have been fishing competitive events for over 20 years, and even back in the early days when the fish were weighed on shore, the mortality was not even close to that. [QUOTE]

Surely then you remember the entire bay at Slave filled with the white bellies of the uncooperative Walleye? Was that what '89 or 90? Pine lake too. Easily that number right in front of the weigh-in. How many more lasted for say another couple of days?
We need to fix our lakes before we even think of worrying about the tournament scene.

[Mikezilk]

We recently had a Kayak fishing debry. We had 25 anglers out trout fishing. Limit was 5 trout, 15 perch and 5 white sucker. EVERY angler caught all 5 trout. So 125 trout landed. Right... Wrong.. some of us landed 15-20 each. I would venture a guess that is total between all anglers we landed 350+ trout, at least 100 perch and actually, surprisingly, 35 white suckers. That is a total of close to 500 fish.

We had 1 trout die. And let me tell you... he tasted good.

Our secret is all of our kayak fishing tournaments are

Catch, Photo, Release. We must have an approved measuring device, the picture must show the fish touching the end of the board and the total length. Then the fish is let go. Say maximum time out of water is 90 seconds.

That is the secret to fishing tournaments. CATCH PHOTO RELEASE!!!

And if it is an issue... make a rule that 1 single hook allowed in the water per angler. Less chance of a bad hook set and more chance for the fish to be unaffected.

[wildman]

competitive angling events have no place in alberta.
the fish stocks are under too much pressure and it's getting worse evey year.
tournaments should be allowed on LAKES WITH STABLE POPULATIONS ONLY.
allowing a tourney on a VULNERABLE OR COLLAPSED fishery is completely illogical.

[Red Bullets]

I think tournaments should be restricted to stocked waters where the fish populations are artifical anyways. By artifical I mean they are stocking trout ponds with fish that do not reproduce and are re-stocked regularly.

[npauls]

simple answer

if you dont like tourneys dont participate.

most weekend anglers have no clue how tournaments are run.

if you think they are terrible and bad for a fishery you should come check one out before piping up and yapping about something you have no experience in.

[192 whitey]

simple answer

if you dont like tourneys dont participate.

most weekend anglers have no clue how tournaments are run.

if you think they are terrible and bad for a fishery you should come check one out before piping up and yapping about something you have no experience in.

X2 my feelings exactly

[avb3]

simple answer

if you dont like tourneys dont participate.

most weekend anglers have no clue how tournaments are run.

if you think they are terrible and bad for a fishery you should come check one out before piping up and yapping about something you have no experience in.

I have a VERY good clue on how they are run.

Now, tell me the benefit of a commercially run one?

[npauls]

I have a VERY good clue on how they are run.

Now, tell me the benefit of a commercially run one?

what benefit does any fishing have for a lake?

let the tourney guys fish their tourneys and let the weekend warriors get out whenever they can.

the only thing hurting our fisheries now are poachers and the laws set for already struggling fisheries.

take travers for example. you can go set up near the spillway and watch the poaching every day. one weekend of that does way more damage to a fishery then a catch and release tourney where the anglers want to keep the fish alive and well for the next tourney.