Making your own Flouro leaders .....

[EZM]

So, I purchased some 80lb flourocarbon leader material with the intent to make up some leaders for pike. The intent was to tie up a barrel swivel on one end and a barrel swivel / snap on the other end.

I was hoping to get something less visible in the water, more subtle, yet strong enough to aviod the teeth of a big snot monster.

With the thickness and limited flexibility of this flouro, it was quite a task to tighten up my palomar ........ I am unhappy with the result.

:sign0176:

I know there are crimp sleves and crimp tools available but, my thoughts were to make it easy, strong and eliminate crimp sleeve in favor of a strong knot.

I don't know if the line is too heavy for what I need or if there is a ancient secret ninja trick to making this work with a palomar .......

:budo:

Any insight, thoughts or ideas would be apprechiated ......

[BeeGuy]

Try a different knot.

I've used a clinch knot on 80-lb mono.

Lubricate and use a tool to tighten the knot.

[tight line]

Try a different knot.

I've used a clinch knot on 80-lb mono.

Lubricate and use a tool to tighten the knot.

X2. Clinch knot should work, if does, try the improved clinch as well! Little stronger!

[BeeGuy]

X2. Clinch knot should work, if does, try the improved clinch as well! Little stronger!

Improved clinch would be an impressive feat with 80lb line.

Not recommended imo

[tight line]

Improved clinch would be an impressive feat with 80lb line.

Not recommended imo

Lol, no probably not, ive tied it on 50.

[EZM]

Just tried the clinch, trilene and a few other knots - I think the 80lb is just to stiff to make it work without taking pliers to pull it tight.

Pliers seem to abrade the line so knots might not be the answer........

Palomar might be ugly and bulky but it's strong. The clinch is bigger and uglier actually with this line .......... still strong ..... but ugly

kinda like TROPHYPIKEHUNTER - big and ugly ......

[BeeGuy]

If you have a crimping type tool with a hole in it you can use it to pull the knot tight.

Thats what I did with my 80lb for sturgeon rigs without any abrasion.

A small hole drilled into a piece of hardwood might work for this purpose.

A snell on an offset eye was def. the way to go for the hooks.

Much better than the knots I tried with that thick stuff.

[Mikezilk]

I tie a double uni knot to attach my leaders to braid. I use 45 lb braid with 60-80 lb fluro. Then use a single uni knot to attach it to my hook. no swivels... they are a weak point in my opinion

Had no problem pulling a 44" 21.8lb pike out of the weeds with this set up.

[EZM]

No doubt the more "connections" (swivels and snaps) the more areas of failure. That's why I never buy cheap dinky snaps or swivels.

The key purpose behind a swivel is to eliminate line twist. Troll an apex, dodger, spinner or evan a spoon without a swivel and you will see why you need one somewhere for most applications. Crankbaits are ussually not too bad.

Also, I am impatient and change my lures often so a double lock snap is a must for me. Tying on over and over again would waste time and I'd go from a 3ft leader to a 6 inch leader in 2 hours .... lol (having to cut it off and re-tie each time).

I've had no issues pulling big girls out when I've followed this logic .......... it's the one time I was in a hurry (and did not change out my ring) that this taught me a lesson.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I use a Clinch knot . Works well , Or you can go out and but the Sleeves and Crimp them , you can buy I think 2 for 4 or 5 bucks at the fishin hole . Get the largest ones .

[Fishnafterwork]

Look up salmon hook knot ..... Should do the trick

[Fishnafterwork]

Oh.... Reread it ... On a barrel swivel... Won't do the trick haha ya what I said was

X2 on the clinch:sign0161:

[Wild&Free]

titanium leader perhaps.

Knotting the thick line is going to be an issue. I'd recomend using a cinch knot. Use pliers to hold onto the tail end, mainline in your had, then use easier to tie line and put a hook on the other side of the barrel swivel, use a stick to hold the hook and pull the hook while holding the pliers to get the not tight without abbrasion on the main line. Same can be done with the snap swivel, but you won't need to tie another knot and cut it off when you're done.

Only thing I can think of to make it easier.

[seahawkfisher]

i tie improved clinch on 44lb; need 2 pairs of pliers to tighten em up but have never had a knot break.
cheers

[ReconWilly]

Try a different knot.

I've used a clinch knot on 80-lb mono.

Lubricate and use a tool to tighten the knot.

These are my first thoughts...why would you need a palomer knot? is a 50lb pike gonna snap 80lb floro?

I'd be astonished...

I use 17lb mainline and a 12lb leader to fish chinook salmon...

[chriscosta]

titanium leader perhaps.

Knotting the thick line is going to be an issue. I'd recomend using a cinch knot. Use pliers to hold onto the tail end, mainline in your had, then use easier to tie line and put a hook on the other side of the barrel swivel, use a stick to hold the hook and pull the hook while holding the pliers to get the not tight without abbrasion on the main line. Same can be done with the snap swivel, but you won't need to tie another knot and cut it off when you're done.

Only thing I can think of to make it easier.

Yup a titanium leader ,good strong lineand a clinch or dbl clinch not and it wont tangle ,kink or ever let you down I only ever retie it to put it on my tip up come winter

[RavYak]

Tried a titanium leader for the first time earlier this season. I will still use steel on my extra rod with lighter line but not switching back for my main rod with 20 lb braid.

An idea, if pliers are scratching the line then put a piece of cloth around the line, can probably still get enough pressure and won't put nicks in the line.

[Backbay]

EZM, I do something a little different with the 40 lb wire leaders I tie, in that I use a bowline to tie both the snap and the swivel, and apply a drop of crazy glue when I tighten it. It takes a little practice to get the loop nice and small, but I've got 2 seasons with those leaders with no failures. It might be worth a try with flouro, in fact I think I'll tie some and see how they work...

[RavYak]

Oh and EZM how many loops you using on the clinch knot? Probably only need 3 maybe 4 loops on something that size. That should help tighten it up easier if you were doing more then that.

[EZM]

These are my first thoughts...why would you need a palomer knot? is a 50lb pike gonna snap 80lb floro?

I'd be astonished...

I use 17lb mainline and a 12lb leader to fish chinook salmon...



I'd be astonished too ...... since my main line is 20lb power pro. lol.

The 80lb flouro is for the teeth abrading and cutting the line - not for the break strength in this particular application. The 80lb is only .034" - so much thinner than leaders and invisible.

I have never tried flouro for a pike leader but a bunch of musky dudes use it and swear by it ........

so ....... I'm going to give it a whirl.

[EZM]

Oh and EZM how many loops you using on the clinch knot? Probably only need 3 maybe 4 loops on something that size. That should help tighten it up easier if you were doing more then that.

I used the standard 5 loops and took BEEGUY's advice on how to rig (tighten) it up. Turned out not too bad actually. I bet 3 or 4 wraps would do it.

I put some big ***** super tough double locks, big barrel swivels and replaced the rings with some bigger ones.

Took it to the garage and swung my trolling ball around with it like a shot put on a string - turned out solid. Almost knocked my dogs head off, thank god I missed, he was looking at me wondering the the h#ll I was doing.

[blueshark]

A 2 or 3 turn uni or grinner can easily be tied in 80lb fluro to create a neat, tidy and strong knot. Back in the uk I would often knot 150 and 200lb mono leaders using a 2 turn grinner, just tighten up with pliers on the tail and then snip it off.

[RavYak]

Yeah try just 3 or 4 loops. I was always taught 7 loops on 6 lb and then fewer loops as you go up with 3 loops being the bare minimum. I could only imagine trying to tighten a 5 loop clinch knot made of 80 lb line, lots of spit and a couple pairs of pliers I guess lol.

[cube]

By far the best knot I have found for heavey Flouro leaders is the Canoeman knot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnsm0imaR0k

Good Luck

[Vessey]

I use the palomar knot, if you lube the line it is much easier to tie. I found the palomar to be the easiest to tie consistantly. You could also go down to 40 or 50 lb to make it a lot easier.

[drifter]

I use the tie fast knot tying tool for my flouro pike leaders.
Get one and try it you won't be disappointed.

[EZM]

I tied up a few clinch knots with 3 wraps and using a board with a small hole drilled in it like BEEGUY mentioned - problem solved. Tight, neat and super stong knots without compromising the flouro. No silly crimp sleeves to fail !!!!

Thanks for everyone's input - this is a good reason to post questions on this forum. Because I might be good looking, doesnt mean I'm very smart, it would of taken me months to figure it out on my own ......lol.

Thanks everyone ....

[BeeGuy]

Just got to post pics of your successes!

Glad that worked out!

I should have mentioned that 3-3.5 wraps was the magic number for me too.

[Gust]

I would make lengths for heavier buzz bombs on the coast and got pretty good at gently melting my knots over a candle. Not sure if someone posted this already.

[Mikezilk]

EZM. I hand tie my lures on. No swivels. I landed probably 20 pike over 30" in 4 nights (1.5-2 hr each night) in September tying spoons and musky lures on. I have found no loss of performance not using swivels. Easiest way I find is I set up 3 different rods. 1 top water, 1 flipping and 1 spoon. If they aren't biting on one I switch rods. But the 60lb Fluro I am using is more than good enough to use for leader and handles the teeth fairly well. Minimal cutting and re-tying

[EZM]

59963

Here's the results of a 3-4 wrap clinch on 80lb flouro. Picture is poor quality from my blackberry but you can tell the basic size of the knot - not to bad.

[Rustomatic]

i use 50 or 60 lb flouro leader material, the leader material is definetly tougher than just flouro, i use to tie them and it was just a pain to cinch the knots up tight, and the odd one would loosen up so i started glueing the knots, now i just crimp them. haven't had a problem with the crimps yet

[RavYak]

Can't see detail like you said but it looks like they snugged up pretty good. Time to go hammer some pike!

[Geezle]

59963

Here's the results of a 3-4 wrap clinch on 80lb flouro. Picture is poor quality from my blackberry but you can tell the basic size of the knot - not to bad.

Looks good! What brand flouro leader material are you using?

I use 50lb for pike and although I *can* tie it, it's kind of a PITA and the knots turn out pretty ugly. Typically I crimp the 50lb stuff now.

When I'm going lighter I'll use 30lb, and that I can tie with no real problems, though it's a whole lot stiffer than similar diameter mono.

[BeeGuy]

59963

Here's the results of a 3-4 wrap clinch on 80lb flouro. Picture is poor quality from my blackberry but you can tell the basic size of the knot - not to bad.

Nice

Any idea what that swivel is rated at?

[EZM]

Looks good! What brand flouro leader material are you using?

I use 50lb for pike and although I *can* tie it, it's kind of a PITA and the knots turn out pretty ugly. Typically I crimp the 50lb stuff now.

When I'm going lighter I'll use 30lb, and that I can tie with no real problems, though it's a whole lot stiffer than similar diameter mono.

I'm not a big fan of Berkley lines but that was the only 80lb flouro leader material they had..... so that's what I used. They didn't have seagar or suffix in that rating.

The key to tight knots was using a 2x4 with a strong (small head) nail driven in it. I hooked the swivel to it and used it to pull tag end tight with pliers and wrapped the leader around the soft end of my pliers (rubberized grips).

Basically I just tightened it up onto the first end, tied up the other side and did the same for the other end. The loop of the swivel fits over the small headed nail and holds it in place. My big fat foot holds the board from sliding.

[EZM]

Nice

Any idea what that swivel is rated at?

I used #5 ball bearing swivels and ball bearing cross locks both rated to 175lbs. , For pike, and trolling 9" cranks, they should be ok.

Hard to tell from pictures but these are huge.

I purchased a few packs of #4's and they are rated for 100lbs. They are smaller but certainly strong enough.

I don't prefer berkely lines, but I like thier terminal tackle. This was the brand I used.

I refuse to buy the bulk brand, falcon or danielson products for big game fish. These are ok for most applications but not for big pike, lakers or salmon. I won't tell you all why ....... most of you have heard the story of the "one that got away" .....................

[Geezle]

I'm not a big fan of Berkley lines but that was the only 80lb flouro leader material they had..... so that's what I used. They didn't have seagar or suffix in that rating.

The key to tight knots was using a 2x4 with a strong (small head) nail driven in it. I hooked the swivel to it and used it to pull tag end tight with pliers and wrapped the leader around the soft end of my pliers (rubberized grips).

Basically I just tightened it up onto the first end, tied up the other side and did the same for the other end. The loop of the swivel fits over the small headed nail and holds it in place. My big fat foot holds the board from sliding.
Cool, I'll have to give that a shot later :)

I used #5 ball bearing swivels and ball bearing cross locks both rated to 175lbs. , For pike, and trolling 9" cranks, they should be ok.

Hard to tell from pictures but these are huge.

I purchased a few packs of #4's and they are rated for 100lbs. They are smaller but certainly strong enough.

I don't prefer berkely lines, but I like thier terminal tackle. This was the brand I used.

I refuse to buy the bulk brand, falcon or danielson products for big game fish. These are ok for most applications but not for big pike, lakers or salmon. I won't tell you all why ....... most of you have heard the story of the "one that got away" .....................

Berkley's terminal tackle is okay, but I'm still on the search for something better that can be found locally without having to order online and such...Last winter I had a Berkley crosslock snap totally break, on a fish that was likely under 10lbs. Made me crazy! The sad thing is I haven't found anything any better yet.

[RavYak]

I used #5 ball bearing swivels and ball bearing cross locks both rated to 175lbs. , For pike, and trolling 9" cranks, they should be ok.


"ok", you should be able to dredge up old boats, fences and trees lol

[fish gunner]

Cool, I'll have to give that a shot later :)



Berkley's terminal tackle is okay, but I'm still on the search for something better that can be found locally without having to order online and such...Last winter I had a Berkley crosslock snap totally break, on a fish that was likely under 10lbs. Made me crazy! The sad thing is I haven't found anything any better yet.
look for sampo or radiant swivels add sampo clips and you are to go for any tackle busters. both products can be found at b*ss amateur stores and the FH. hope that helps.

[BeeGuy]

I use a swivel and a split ring.

Just don't like snaps.

[fish gunner]

I use a swivel and a split ring.

Just don't like snaps.

how that go with cold hands. I agree clips are figity and dont work well on some rapalas. for pike I find sampo clips work fine. it is offshore gear I just get the "small" sizes.