Planning Your Draw Applications

[elkhunter11]

As seems to be the case every year, there seems to be an abundance of people that drew tags in wmus that they know nothing about, and they are now posting in the forums, in the hopes that someone will help them find game, or at least a place to hunt, in that wmu. I apply for several draws every year, but before applying for any draw, I do a little research before applying. I check maps to see if there is crown land in the area, I talk to people that I know that have hunted that wmu, and in some cases, I even call landowners in that wmu, before submitting my draw. I won't submit a draw for a wmu, with zero preparation, and then end up scrambling to try and find a place to hunt at the last minute.
The same is true for the goat,sheep, and bison draws. Some people apply, without any fore thought, because an application is cheap, and when they get drawn, and discover the travel, that is required, or the terrain that they will have to hunt in, they don't bother purchasing their tag, and let it go to waste. I could care less if that person doesn't hunt, but by drawing that very desirable tag, they deprived someone else of the opportunity.
If people were to give just a little thought, before submitting their draws, they could save themselves some future frustration, by drawing tags, and not knowing where to hunt with those tags, and they would not be wasting tags,by not purchasing them after being drawn, while depriving other people from the opportunity to draw those tags.

[pottymouth]

so true, great post

[Dan Boone]

Case and point. A friend of mine was drawn for suffield second season.
Our first trip he would not go due to the tag system down.
So i packed the wife and kids and went scouting anyway.

Last 3 days of the season we were suppose to go again and he cancelled.
Why waste the money, time and effort only to not even go to the hunting area once?

[BigRackLover]

everyone's priorities are different.

[heretohunt]

I would like to believe that a certain amount of those are accounted for in every draw. If that is the case then they are just donating a few $$. Keep up the good work?

[Pincherguy]

As seems to be the case every year, there seems to be an abundance of people that drew tags in wmus that they know nothing about, and they are now posting in the forums, in the hopes that someone will help them find game, or at least a place to hunt, in that wmu. I apply for several draws every year, but before applying for any draw, I do a little research before applying. I check maps to see if there is crown land in the area, I talk to people that I know that have hunted that wmu, and in some cases, I even call landowners in that wmu, before submitting my draw. I won't submit a draw for a wmu, with zero preparation, and then end up scrambling to try and find a place to hunt at the last minute.
The same is true for the goat,sheep, and bison draws. Some people apply, without any fore thought, because an application is cheap, and when they get drawn, and discover the travel, that is required, or the terrain that they will have to hunt in, they don't bother purchasing their tag, and let it go to waste. I could care less if that person doesn't hunt, but by drawing that very desirable tag, they deprived someone else of the opportunity.
If people were to give just a little thought, before submitting their draws, they could save themselves some future frustration, by drawing tags, and not knowing where to hunt with those tags, and they would not be wasting tags,by not purchasing them after being drawn, while depriving other people from the opportunity to draw those tags.

Sound advice.
PG

[Walleyes]

Sound advice indeed elk.

A lot of research and effort goes into any draw I put in unless its a zone I know well. A lot of time and money goes into it but thats because I take it seriuos, my hunts are important to me. I think in some cases its just not all that important to people, hunting is not as big a deal to them as they think, its just something to do on a weekend so why put much effort into it. They jump in a truck drive around and shoot a deer,, thats their hunt. Not saying anything againts that style,, you all know how I stand on that, its just thats all it is to these people. That and some people are just used to being spoon fed there whole life, for Goodness sakes they can't even be bothered to read the regs they expect other people to do it and just give them the awnser why would they spend a dime scouting a zone 200 miles away.

[tony d]

Couldn't agree more I generally spend years planning a specific hunt generally a year before I want start building priority and do a little every year till i get drawn then full on planning
Cheers Tony

[stickflicker]

Good advice. I've mostly spent my hunting trips in my same old familiar areas, but it's time for me to seek new opportunities. A few years ago I started building draw priorities for species I'd like to hunt and I need to start putting in the ground work before I decide which zone I'll pick to draw for then hunt. First tag up for me is mulie buck. With a priority 5 next year I can pretty much pick the zone I want to hunt...I'd really like to tag a buck worthy of a wall mount. My elk and moose priorities should be high enough a few years after that.:D

[Lefty-Canuck]

"Like" button has been pressed.

LC

[elkhunter11]

I would like to believe that a certain amount of those are accounted for in every draw. If that is the case then they are just donating a few $$. Keep up the good work?

Have a look at the number of goat tags issued in each wmu, and then tell us how many extra tags that you think SRD plans on not being purchased.

As far as the money itself, if you spend a few dollars applying, and draw a tag, and then don't purchase the tag, how much have you actually "donated"? If you had not bothered to apply, someone that really wanted the tag could have been drawn, and they could have actually purchased the tag, which amounts to a lot more money "donated" to the system.

I don't consider it good work to keep someone that really wants to hunt from drawing the tag, and then also depriving the system of the tag costs. That is actually a tactic that ,some anti hunting groups use to prevent hunters from drawing tags.

[Sheepcrazyguy]

I would like to believe that a certain amount of those are accounted for in every draw. If that is the case then they are just donating a few $$. Keep up the good work?

Talking with the Bio's that is indeed the case. But they have only a general % to go by. Personally I have to agree with the original poster.

[BigJon]

It isn't a popular idea with everyone but having to purchase a license before being elible to apply for the draw would elimate alot of the "just because" applicants. Once drawn then have your license validated and be eligble to purchase the tag.

I don't have overflowing pockets by any means but I would be able to make it work for myself.

[ishootbambi]

you are right elk. two ways to fix it.....

1 3 dollars for an application is retarded. its why there are more than 10000 sheep applications form people who have never hunted sheep, and likely never will.

2 if any draw tags end up not being purchased, then all priorities are washed to zero.

{3 a kick in the nuts would make em think twice too, but that one likely isnt feasible.}

[elkhunter11]

you are right elk. two ways to fix it.....

1 3 dollars for an application is retarded. its why there are more than 10000 sheep applications form people who have never hunted sheep, and likely never will.

2 if any draw tags end up not being purchased, then all priorities are washed to zero.

{3 a kick in the nuts would make em think twice too, but that one likely isnt feasible.}

How about having the cost of the tag charged to your credit card, as soon as you are drawn. If you don't use a credit card, then you pay the cost of the tag when you apply for the draw. If the $3+ in total, becomes $40 or $50 for each applicant, many people are going to at least give some thought before applying.

[Jamie]

I don't see what the problem is.
Gov wants 100 deer killed in a zone
They know that 10% of the people will not go on the hunt
So they allow for 110 tags.
(I know this is basic, but you get the idea)

I like the program. (some changes are needed but overall we have the best system in the world.) I don't know how long it will be sustainable though. Some draws are impossible to pull for new hunters and that part isn't fair.
Jamie

[Huntnut]

2 if any draw tags end up not being purchased, then all priorities are washed to zero.


So if I put in and are successful for a draw but when it comes time to purchase the tag something happens-(ie: job of family or injury related) and I can't go hunting then all my priorities should go to zero????? Don't think so:snapoutofit:

[ishootbambi]

How about having the cost of the tag charged to your credit card, as soon as you are drawn. If you don't use a credit card, then you pay the cost of the tag when you apply for the draw. If the $3+ in total, becomes $40 or $50 for each applicant, many people are going to at least give some thought before applying.

what i dont like about it is that there is no real penalty. for most people the 37 dollar tag after the fact is nothing. for sheep, antleope and goat in particular, make those apps 25 bucks. that solves a couple things. only those who really want it will apply, and for the long priority tags, it would actually put some money into the system. of course that money needs to be directed properly.

for example....an antelope at 9 years of applications today would be 27 bucks plus tag. my way it would be 225 plus tag. then if you dont purchase the tag and all priority is gone, there is a very real downside.

if the tag is purchased but the guy doesnt go, very little has changed. it is still a tag wasted that could have been used by someone that wanted to hunt, and there is next to no penalty.

[Drewski Canuck]

BC has actually documented PETA types flooding the draw applications, and getting as many tags as possible, and not using them, to frustrate the legitimate hunters.

Hopefully that is not happening here, but the groups against us promote this as a "Gorilla War" tactic across North America, and they are proud of it.

Drewski

[stokcondave]

I am in the process of building my priority for most of the big game species. The amount of money spent(about $40) for my applications is affordable for me. If it costed $40-50/application I would not be able to afford to build my priorities. It would mean I would build priority for a certain animal, and have to wait many years to hunt on a drawn tag. I'm trying to make it so that every year I can hunt a drawn tag. Alot of organizations make it so you must use a credit card, if you get drawn it comes off your and your tags in the mail,or something like that. Another suggestion is that if you draw a tag you must purchase that one before any general tags.

[ishootbambi]

So if I put in and are successful for a draw but when it comes time to purchase the tag something happens-(ie: job of family or injury related) and I can't go hunting then all my priorities should go to zero????? Don't think so:snapoutofit:

buy the tag and youre safe....dont buy it and get penalized. :snapoutofit:

ill say it again.....more than 10000 sheep apps but only 2000 sheep tags sold every year.:snapoutofit:

yuor point is valid, and thats why i left an out for it. just buy the tag and avoid the penalty.:snapoutofit:

:snapoutofit::snapoutofit::snapoutofit::snapoutofi t::snapoutofit: what a silly smiley.

[Huntnut]

what i dont like about it is that there is no real penalty. for most people the 37 dollar tag after the fact is nothing. for sheep, antleope and goat in particular, make those apps 25 bucks. that solves a couple things. only those who really want it will apply, and for the long priority tags, it would actually put some money into the system. of course that money needs to be directed properly.

for example....an antelope at 9 years of applications today would be 27 bucks plus tag. my way it would be 225 plus tag. then if you dont purchase the tag and all priority is gone, there is a very real downside.

if the tag is purchased but the guy doesnt go, very little has changed. it is still a tag wasted that could have been used by someone that wanted to hunt, and there is next to no penalty.

Why should there be a penalty??? That tag belongs to that person-whatever he or she decides to do with it is no ones buisness buth their own.

[Huntnut]

buy the tag and youre safe....dont buy it and get penalized. :snapoutofit:

ill say it again.....more than 10000 sheep apps but only 2000 sheep tags sold every year.:snapoutofit:

yuor point is valid, and thats why i left an out for it. just buy the tag and avoid the penalty.:snapoutofit:

:snapoutofit::snapoutofit::snapoutofit::snapoutofi t::snapoutofit: what a silly smiley.

If something serious happens buying a tag so you don't get penilized is probably the last thing on someones mind.:snapoutofit::snapoutofit::snapoutofit:

[ishootbambi]

Why should there be a penalty??? That tag belongs to that person-whatever he or she decides to do with it is no ones buisness buth their own.

i will repeat


ill say it again.....more than 10000 sheep apps but only 2000 sheep tags sold every year.:snapoutofit:

.

and this is another reason

BC has actually documented PETA types flooding the draw applications, and getting as many tags as possible, and not using them, to frustrate the legitimate hunters.

Hopefully that is not happening here, but the groups against us promote this as a "Gorilla War" tactic across North America, and they are proud of it.

Drewski

[Huntnut]

i will repeat



and this is another reason

So because people put in for a specialized sheep draw but don't buy a general tag they should be penilized for everything??? Again:snapoutofit:

[elkhunter11]

I don't see what the problem is.
Gov wants 100 deer killed in a zone
They know that 10% of the people will not go on the hunt
So they allow for 110 tags.
(I know this is basic, but you get the idea)

Try reading this part of my first post again paying attention to the bold print.

The same is true for the goat,sheep, and bison draws. Some people apply, without any fore thought, because an application is cheap, and when they get drawn, and discover the travel, that is required, or the terrain that they will have to hunt in, they don't bother purchasing their tag, and let it go to waste. I could care less if that person doesn't hunt, but by drawing that very desirable tag, they deprived someone else of the opportunity.
If people were to give just a little thought, before submitting their draws, they could save themselves some future frustration, by drawing tags, and not knowing where to hunt with those tags, and they would not be wasting tags,by not purchasing them after being drawn, while depriving other people from the opportunity to draw those tags.


You are talking about a situation where over 100 tags are issued for a given wmu, and many wmus are available, whereas I am talking about a situation where the number of tags is extremely limited, and either it's a random draw, or it takes many years to draw.

Do you even realize that only one goat tag is drawn for each area?
So if some person puts in a draw for goat, with no consideration as to what is involved to actually hunt goat, and gets drawn, then doesn't purchase that tag, nobody will be allowed to hunt goat in that area.
The tags for many of the sheep draws are also very limited, so that every person that is drawn and doesn't purchase the tag reduces the hunting opportunity by a significant percentage.

Now if you aren't interested in hunting sheep,goat or bison,( or aren't physically able to handle a sheep or goat hunt) it likely won't matter to you, but some people will wait many years to draw those tags, and it is a shame that they will be denied the opportunity to draw the tag, because someone that really had no intention to hunt, drew the tag that they could have drawn. I know one individual that drew a 437 sheep tag. He applied for the tag because he was a dreamer, and because the application was cheap. When he drew the tag, and realized what was involved to get to the hunt area, and to actually hunt the ram, he backed out and let the tag go to waste. Had he thought about it before he applied, he would not have applied in the first place, and someone that really wanted to go, could have drawn the tag.

[Huntnut]

Try reading this part of my first post again paying attention to the bold print.



You are talking about a situation where over 100 tags are issued for a given wmu, and many wmus are available, whereas I am talking about a situation where the number of tags is extremely limited, and either it's a random draw, or it takes many years to draw.

Do you even realize that only one goat tag is drawn for each area?
So if some person puts in a draw for goat, with no consideration as to what is involved to actually hunt goat, and gets drawn, then doesn't purchase that tag, nobody will be allowed to hunt goat in that area.
The tags for many of the sheep draws are also very limited, so that every person that is drawn and doesn't purchase the tag reduces the hunting opportunity by a significant percentage.

Now if you aren't interested in hunting sheep,goat or bison,( or aren't physically able to handle a sheep or goat hunt) it likely won't matter to you, but some people will wait many years to draw those tags, and it is a shame that they will be denied the opportunity to draw the tag, because someone that really had no intention to hunt, drew the tag that they could have drawn. I know one individual that drew a 437 sheep tag. He applied for the tag because he was a dreamer, and because the application was cheap. When he drew the tag, and realized what was involved to get to the hunt area, and to actually hunt the ram, he backed out and let the tag go to waste. Had he thought about it before he applied, he would not have applied in the first place, and someone that really wanted to go, could have drawn the tag.

I understand what you're saying but how would you prove this??? It's impossible so there goes ISB's idea about penilizing people.

[ishootbambi]

I know one individual that drew a 437 sheep tag. He applied for the tag because he was a dreamer, and because the application was cheap. When he drew the tag, and realized what was involved to get to the hunt area, and to actually hunt the ram, he backed out and let the tag go to waste. Had he thought about it before he applied, he would not have applied in the first place, and someone that really wanted to go, could have drawn the tag.

thats one problem....another is the crew that carted a mountain goat out of the wilmore on a guys wifes tag that he applied her for knowing full well she wouldnt be going and he was going to shoot it. or this years cadomin tag on here asking what is this mine he keeps hearing about. thats a guy that i bet money on hunting illegally if he even does go as he has no idea what the boundaries area all about.

whether anyone likes it or not, there is a problem in the system.....and its the 3 dollar application.

[ishootbambi]

I understand what you're saying but how would you prove this??? It's impossible so there goes ISB's idea about penilizing people.

that sure as fark is NOT what i suggested !!!!!

and read closer....my idea was that if you buy the tag you have satisfied the requirement. i didnt say you had to go.

[Huntnut]

that sure as fark is NOT what i suggested !!!!!

and read closer....my idea was that if you buy the tag you have satisfied the requirement. i didnt say you had to go.

You still haven't answered my question as to why people should be penilized?? So now we need tag police??? Again:snapoutofit:

[Au revoir, Gopher]

{3 a kick in the nuts would make em think twice too, but that one likely isnt feasible.}

I don't know... it could work

1. You apply for a draw
2. if you aren't drawn, you are entered into another draw that entitles you to go kick they guy who got drawn but didn't use it.
3. if are drawn on the second round, you are provided with a name and address.

I'm sure that would work :)

ARG

[elkhunter11]

what i dont like about it is that there is no real penalty. for most people the 37 dollar tag after the fact is nothing. for sheep, antleope and goat in particular, make those apps 25 bucks. that solves a couple things. only those who really want it will apply, and for the long priority tags, it would actually put some money into the system. of course that money needs to be directed properly.

I understand what you're saying but how would you prove this??? It's impossible so there goes ISB's idea about penilizing people.


My intention in having people charged for the tag, as soon as they are drawn, is not to penalize people after they draw the tag, my intention is to dissuade the ones that aren't serious about hunting the animal, from applying in the first place. Penalizing someone after the fact doesn't prevent that tag from going to waste. The problem is, that with a $3+ application fee, many people apply for everything they can, with absolutely no thought as to what is involved to go on the hunt. If they submit seven applications, they are only out around $25, so most could care less about about letting tags go to waste. However, if they know that they will be charged for every tag they draw, wasting $40 or $50 for one tag, would not be acceptable to many people.

[Huntnut]

that sure as fark is NOT what i suggested !!!!!

and read closer....my idea was that if you buy the tag you have satisfied the requirement. i didnt say you had to go.

What fricking differance does it make whether it's not purchased or purchased with the intention of never being used to avoid being penilized-still a wasted tag.

[Huntnut]

My intention in having people charged for the tag, as soon as they are drawn, is not to penalize people after they draw the tag, my intention is to dissuade the ones that aren't serious about hunting the animal, from applying in the first place. Penalizing someone after the fact doesn't prevent that tag from going to waste.

I agree.
One way of doing it is to set a dated that the tag has to be purchased by and if it is not purchased then it goes to whoever is next inline for it and you still loose your priority points the same as if you purchased it.

[elkhunter11]

I agree.
One way of doing it is to set a dated that the tag has to be purchased by and if it is not purchased then it goes to whoever is next inline for it and you still loose your priority points the same as if you purchased it.

The problem with that is that the results are currently not available until July, or even August in some cases, which doesn't leave a lot of time to make arrangements for time off work and to book hunts as it is. Notifying people even later, leaves them even less time to prepare. The best way is to try and discourage the people that aren't serious about the hunt from applying in the first place, and for most people, money seems to be the best way to do this. As posted previously, $3 really means nothing to most people, but many won't put out $40 or $50 if they think that there is a good chance that it will be wasted.

[Huntnut]

The problem with that is that the results are currently not available until July, or even August in some cases, which doesn't leave a lot of time to make arrangements for time off work and to book hunts as it is. Notifying people even later, leaves them even less time to prepare..

Unless the draws are made earlier or the tags had to be purchased within a few days of the draw.

[elkhunter11]

Unless the draws are made earlier.

That is a possible solution. Saskatchewan conducts their draws a bit earlier, and coincidentally, they also charge your credit card if the draw application is successful. If you were to combine the Saskatchewan draw dates, and payment system, and their outfitting regulations, with the Alberta priority system, you would have the ideal system.

[BigJon]

That is a possible solution. Saskatchewan conducts their draws a bit earlier, and coincidentally, they also charge your credit card if the draw application is successful. If you were to combine the Saskatchewan draw dates, and payment system, and their outfitting regulations, with the Alberta priority system, you would have the ideal system.

This would likely be better than what is currently happening but I still think paying for the license before being eligible to enter the draw would be more of a sure way to keep people that aren't serious about drawing the tag/hunting from applying.

We all can dream I guess...

[Jamie]

This would likely be better than what is currently happening but I still think paying for the license before being eligible to enter the draw would be more of a sure way to keep people that aren't serious about drawing the tag/hunting from applying.

We all can dream I guess...

But then the amount of tags will go down. (other than specialized tags)
You make people buy tags, the amount of people that hunt them will go up. So then the gov reduces the amount of tags available. At the end of the day, the gov knows how many animals they want taken out of a certain zone and they will adjust draws to get to that number.

Not sure why you guys don't get this.

Jamie

[elkhunter11]

But then the amount of tags will go down. (other than specialized tags)
You make people buy tags, the amount of people that hunt them will go up. So then the gov reduces the amount of tags available. At the end of the day, the gov knows how many animals they want taken out of a certain zone and they will adjust draws to get to that number.

Not sure why you guys don't get this.

I am not sure why you don't get the fact that I was talking about specialized tags when I started this thread. I specifically mentioned goat,sheep, and bison draws in my very first post, and I even reposted part of that first post with goat,sheep, and bison in bold in a following post hoping that you would realize that. Apparently you still don't get it though. Of course paying as soon as you draw would include all tags, but the reason for doing this in the first place is because of the specialty tags. Now if the harvest of a particular species in a particular wmu increases beyond what is desired, SRD will reduce the number of tags available just as they do now. In the end, hunting opportunities may be increased slightly for the specialty tags, and it won't be reduced for the other tags.

The biologists are currently allowing one goat tag per area to be drawn, do you really think that making people pay up front will result in that number changing?

[pottymouth]

I'm not sure that attaching a mandatory payment purchase to drawn tags holders, is going to make guys go out and hunt those tags. So, the bottom line is, that the tag still might not get used, and the government gets more money, that won't necessarily reach any agencies attached to hunting.

Having the idea of losing all your priorities, if you dont purchase one of your draw tags, is one of the stupidest things Ive ever heard. Not surprised though at the source ... Life happens, and I'm glad we don't get punished for life.....

Is the main concern the tag not being used, or not being purchased?

[elkhunter11]

Is the main concern the tag not being used, or not being purchased?

My concern is the tag being wasted, because someone that had no intention of actually going on the hunt drew it, and by doing so, kept someone that would have gone on the hunt from drawing the tag.

To some people a sheep hunt, or a goat hunt, or a bison hunt sounds exciting, until they actually take the time to learn the logistics, and the costs, of such a hunt. Once they realize what is involved, many people are not willing to do what it takes to make the hunt happen. My goal is to make those people think about what the hunt involves before they apply for the tag. These days money seems to be one of the best motivators to get people to think about those things.

[Jamie]

As seems to be the case every year, there seems to be an abundance of people that drew tags in wmus that they know nothing about, and they are now posting in the forums, in the hopes that someone will help them find game, or at least a place to hunt, in that wmu. I apply for several draws every year, but before applying for any draw, I do a little research before applying. I check maps to see if there is crown land in the area, I talk to people that I know that have hunted that wmu, and in some cases, I even call landowners in that wmu, before submitting my draw. I won't submit a draw for a wmu, with zero preparation, and then end up scrambling to try and find a place to hunt at the last minute.
The same is true for the goat,sheep, and bison draws. Some people apply, without any fore thought, because an application is cheap, and when they get drawn, and discover the travel, that is required, or the terrain that they will have to hunt in, they don't bother purchasing their tag, and let it go to waste. I could care less if that person doesn't hunt, but by drawing that very desirable tag, they deprived someone else of the opportunity.
If people were to give just a little thought, before submitting their draws, they could save themselves some future frustration, by drawing tags, and not knowing where to hunt with those tags, and they would not be wasting tags,by not purchasing them after being drawn, while depriving other people from the opportunity to draw those tags.

I am not sure why you don't get the fact that I was talking about specialized tags when I started this thread. I specifically mentioned goat,sheep, and bison draws in my very first post, and I even reposted part of that first post with goat,sheep, and bison in bold in a following post hoping that you would realize that. Apparently you still don't get it though. Of course paying as soon as you draw would include all tags, but the reason for doing this in the first place is because of the specialty tags. Now if the harvest of a particular species in a particular wmu increases beyond what is desired, SRD will reduce the number of tags available just as they do now. In the end, hunting opportunities may be increased slightly for the specialty tags, and it won't be reduced for the other tags.

The biologists are currently allowing one goat tag per area to be drawn, do you really think that making people pay up front will result in that number changing?
Actually, your first post encompassed the whole draw system.
I missed your reply to my post.

I guess I have to ask how many tags are wasted, and by wasted I mean how many high value tags are not purchased?

Get that number and you might find some support.

Jamie

[elkhunter11]

Actually, your first post encompassed the whole draw system.

It encompassed two aspects, the first being people applying for draws in wmus that they were totally unfamiliar with, and then finding themselves with no idea where to hunt.

However, that part of my post seems to have gone unnoticed as most people appear to be much more concerned with the wasting of the low volume, high demand tags, which was the second aspect of my post. In dealing with that aspect, I specifically mentioned the goat, sheep, and bison draws.

I guess I have to ask how many tags are wasted, and by wasted I mean how many high value tags are not purchased?

Given that I personally know a very,very small percentage of the people that apply for tags in Alberta, yet I do personally know someone that wasted a high demand sheep tag, it obviously does happen.

[stokcondave]

Maybe they just need to increase the cost of the "once in a lifetime" application, and not all of them. I don't see the point of increasing the cost of something that you can get with a priority of say 1 or 2. That might deter some people from applying on a whim.

[elkhunter11]

Maybe they just need to increase the cost of the "once in a lifetime" application, and not all of them. I don't see the point of increasing the cost of something that you can get with a priority of say 1 or 2. That might deter some people from applying on a whim.

I am not suggesting increasing the cost of the tags at all, just changing the system so that your credit card is charged when you are drawn. With the present system, you are only committing $3+ when you apply, whether you draw or not. If you are charged when drawn, you are potentially committing $40 or $50. That is a huge difference to many people.

[pottymouth]

I am not suggesting increasing the cost of the tags at all, just changing the system so that your credit card is charged when you are drawn. With the present system, you are only committing $3+ when you apply, whether you draw or not. If you are charged when drawn, you are potentially committing $40 or $50. That is a huge difference to many people.

Unfortunately , that money has little or no impact to most people. Its still not enough to make people think about it more seriously.It still won't make people get out and hunt that tag either.

And for the record, nothing makes me more angry , than knowing people are drawn and make no attempt to hunt that draw. 408 sheep tag is a prime example of that, the last 2-3 years for sure.

[Jamie]

It encompassed two aspects, the first being people applying for draws in wmus that they were totally unfamiliar with, and then finding themselves with no idea where to hunt.

However, that part of my post seems to have gone unnoticed as most people appear to be much more concerned with the wasting of the low volume, high demand tags, which was the second aspect of my post. In dealing with that aspect, I specifically mentioned the goat, sheep, and bison draws.



Given that I personally know a very,very small percentage of the people that apply for tags in Alberta, yet I do personally know someone that wasted a high demand sheep tag, it obviously does happen.

A call to the gov might get you a answer. Personally I have never seen some one not try and use a high value tag.

Jamie

[stokcondave]

I am not suggesting increasing the cost of the tags at all, just changing the system so that your credit card is charged when you are drawn. With the present system, you are only committing $3+ when you apply, whether you draw or not. If you are charged when drawn, you are potentially committing $40 or $50. That is a huge difference to many people.

If an application costed $40 it might deter people from applying. This would increase the chances of the people that can and will utilize the tag. I agree with you, I don't like hearing about wasted tags either. But how do you make someone accountable for their actions(thats the eternal question, How to make people think?)

[pottymouth]

A call to the gov might get you a answer. Personally I have never seen some one not try and use a high value tag.

Jamie

It happens a lot. Out of 6 tags in 408 last year for example. 2 were not purchased. 2 hunted hard, and the other 2 purchased but only went out once, and realized it's not for them.

The previous years were much the same, and some even worse....

[Jamie]

It happens a lot. Out of 6 tags in 408 last year for example. 2 were not purchased. 2 hunted hard, and the other 2 purchased but only went out once, and realized it's not for them.

The previous years were much the same, and some even worse....

Ok, then is the gov planning on a certain success rate even with 6 tags?
Perhaps the gov had only planned on one or 2 sheep being taken?

I don't totally know the reason behind how they come up with numbers, but a knee jerk reaction will not help. We need greater transparency with FG. That's the first step the getting things moving in a positive manner.

Your points are well taken, but I would like more info. And for those dedicated to his type of change, I believe you have one thing worh investigating.

Jamie

[BigJon]

But then the amount of tags will go down. (other than specialized tags)
You make people buy tags, the amount of people that hunt them will go up. So then the gov reduces the amount of tags available. At the end of the day, the gov knows how many animals they want taken out of a certain zone and they will adjust draws to get to that number.

Not sure why you guys don't get this.

Jamie

I am not following your logic here Jamie? By reading further down the page I am thinking you may be understanding what we are driving at here but right now I am kinda confused with this post??

[Jamie]

I am not following your logic here Jamie? By reading further down the page I am thinking you may be understanding what we are driving at here but right now I am kinda confused with this post??

Jon, slight misunderstanding, op had spoke about it being a province wide thing, then the conversation morphed into just extremely high value tags. I was a little slow on the up tick as I had missed a response

But look at my last post. Even with 6 tags, the Gov could be holding out that some will not show.

Jamie

[elkhunter11]

Ok, then is the gov planning on a certain success rate even with 6 tags?
Perhaps the gov had only planned on one or 2 sheep being taken?


I have no doubt that they are planning on a certain success rate, but I doubt that they are counting on only 2 people out of 6 tags drawn even making an effort to hunt the tag. Why would any reasonable person count on someone not even purchasing their tags? To use your own words:

Personally I have never seen some one not try and use a high value tag.

The problem is, that if they increase the tag numbers , based on one or two years like this, and say 10 tags are drawn, and 8 serious hunters show up that year, the harvest might exceed the desired amount. As such, the best alternative, is to leave the tag numbers alone , and try to have only people that actually want the tags to apply.

[sheephunter]

I agree that people should have to buy tags they draw but I can't see it making any difference in the number that apply. I'm sure everyonre applies with the best of intentions. It would add a few more bucks to the coffers though.

[elkhunter11]

I agree that people should have to buy tags they draw but I can't see it making any difference in the number that apply. I'm sure everyonre applies with the best of intentions. It would add a few more bucks to the coffers though.


I asked the guy that I know why he applied for the 437 sheep draw, and his response was that is was only a few dollars to apply, and he hadn't expected to draw, so applied without giving it a second thought. I asked him if he would have applied if he had known what was involved to actually hunt the area, and he replied that he would not have applied.

[sheephunter]

I asked the guy that I know why he applied for the 437 sheep draw, and his response was that is was only a few dollars to apply, and he hadn't expected to draw, so applied without giving it a second thought. I asked him if he would have applied if he had known what was involved to actually hunt the area, and he replied that he would not have applied.

What does that have to do with my post that you quoted? I doubt the thought of having to spend $50 would have made him any smarter. I'm sure he spent close to that much applying.

[elkhunter11]

What does that have to do with my post that you quoted?

Two things, I have known him very well,for over 30 years, and for $3 , he had no problems applying, but if he knew that he had to commit to the price of the tag if he was drawn, he likely would not have applied.

The second was that I don't consider applying on a whim, without intending to actually go on the hunt if drawn, to be "applying with the best of intentions"

[sheephunter]

Two things, I have known him very well,for over 30 years, and for $3 , he had no problems applying, but if he knew that he had to commit to the price of the tag if he was drawn, he likely would not have applied.

The second was that I don't consider applying on a whim, without intending to actually go on the hunt if drawn, to be "applying with the best of intentions"

Well he may be the exception to the rule but I seriously doubt that forcing people to buy tags would make a noticeable difference in the number of applicants. Like I said he likely had the price of tag into application fees over the years. I'm not against making people pony up for their decisions to apply but if you are looking for a fix to lower the number of applicants....that ain't it. It's not a bad punitive measure but it ain't a fix.

I can't see anyone applying without an intention of going on the hunt either...once slapped with the reality of what's involved they may back out but I'm sure everyone has the best of intentions.....well maybe other than a guy you know.

[stokcondave]

I think people to a certain extent do think about what they are applying for. If not then the amount applying for say 408 sheep would be constant. But if you look at the records it does decrease through the priorities. They might apply on a whim but don't maintain their priority, realizing that its a tough hunt

[elkhunter11]

I think people to a certain extent do think about what they are applying for. If not then the amount applying for say 408 sheep would be constant. But if you look at the records it does decrease through the priorities. They might apply on a whim but don't maintain their priority, realizing that its a tough hunt


Actually some people appear to be living in a dream. They apply for the goat and sheep hunts ,because they dream of going on the hunt of a lifetime, just like the people on the television shows, but they don't take the time to think about what is involved until they actually draw the tag, and they are forced to deal with the reality of such a hunt. I actually know of several people that apply for pretty much every tag that they can, and some of those people would never even attempt to climb into sheep or goat country, due to their physical limitations. Yet that doesn't stop them from applying for those sheep and goat tags every year. The fellow that drew the 437 sheep tag was one of those people. When he was told that he couldn't just ride his atv up close to the sheep, and that he would have to do some hiking, he wasn't at all interested in the hunt.
Other people that I know apply for many tags,all over the province, but when they are drawn for a tag that requires several hundred kilometers of travel, and the associated expenses of setting up a camp, or staying in a hotel, they back out, and don't bother, and let the tag go to waste.
The problem is, that with the application fees being so cheap, it only costs them a few dollars each year to dream of that sheep or goat hunt, but if that cost was increased to $50 or so, by knowing that they would have to pay for the tag if drawn, that cheap dream would no longer be nearly as attractive. Of course it wouldn't stop all of the dreamers from applying, but it would give the people that are really serious about going on such a hunt, better odds of drawing.

[stokcondave]

So where do you draw the line? Should you have to pay $50 for a mule deer application? Why should I have to fork out high dollars because I want my priorities to remain high, remembering I will use the tag. I realize your talking about goats, buffalo, and sheep, but why not antelope that has along wait. I don't know what the solution is here. Maybe the kick in the berries is the solution.

[elkhunter11]

So where do you draw the line? Should you have to pay $50 for a mule deer application?

I am not suggesting that the application fees be increased at all, I have posted that a few times now, but some people just aren't getting it. What I am suggesting is that the application fee remains the same, but if you draw you are immediately charged for that tag. As it is now, you are only committing to the $3+ application fee, when you apply, but with my proposal, you would be committed to actually purchasing the tag if you are drawn.
This would not change the actual cost to you to apply and draw the tag at all, and if you aren't drawn, you would still only be out the same $3+ for the application.

[stokcondave]

The problem is, that with the application fees being so cheap, it only costs them a few dollars each year to dream of that sheep or goat hunt, but if that cost was increased to $50 or so, by knowing that they would have to pay for the tag if drawn, that cheap dream would no longer be nearly as attractive. Of course it wouldn't stop all of the dreamers from applying, but it would give the people that are really serious about going on such a hunt, better odds of drawing.

Sorry got a little confused with this statement

[elkhunter11]

Sorry got a little confused with this statement


The extra cost would have been paying for the tag itself, not an increase in the application fee.

[Rook]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;1688730]It encompassed two aspects, the first being people applying for draws in wmus that they were totally unfamiliar with, and then finding themselves with no idea where to hunt.

This is the exact example that I find myself in. I didn't get my anterless mule deer license in my regular zone so I grabbed an unsubscribed in a zone I have no experience in. I don't have time to go to that zone pre-season and scout as the unsubscribed started about the time I was well into prepping my sheep hunt. Then I spent 4 weekends after my elk. One weekend spend at home then a few weekends aiding a new hunter with their whitetail. Two weekends hunting birds and now I am ready to start with the mule deer. I will be asking help from the forum members. I kind of expect that is one of the things this forum stands for.

SORRY ELKHUNTER BUT MY PRIORITIES ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOURS AND I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO YOU APPLYING THEM TO ALL OTHER HUNTERS AND THEN BITCHING BECAUSE THEY DON'T COMPLY!

[stokcondave]

I didn't realize that 437 sheep was a 16 year wait and I realize the frustration. But with the priority system your not back at square one the next year. The once in a lifetime draws you are, I'd be more upset with someone wasting one of those tags.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I didn't realize that 437 sheep was a 16 year wait and I realize the frustration. But with the priority system your not back at square one the next year. The once in a lifetime draws you are, I'd be more upset with someone wasting one of those tags.

....it is not a 16 year wait....it has been that long for the top priority 30-35 guys...

....if you put in now, you will likely NEVER be drawn in your lifetime.

LC

[Lefty-Canuck]

I agree with the draw system being sandbagged by folks who have no intention of using a draw tag.....but still continue to apply.

But....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW4RUIjOp9k&feature=related

LC

[Rackmastr]

....it is not a 16 year wait....it has been that long for the top priority 30-35 guys...

....if you put in now, you will likely NEVER be drawn in your lifetime.

LC

Hahaha ya....it's about a 250+ year "wait"...

[Lefty-Canuck]

Hahaha ya....it's about a 250+ year "wait"...

Yup....a buddy has been putting in since long before there was even a priority system....I think he is on year 20+ for applying for it....

LC

[stokcondave]

[QUOTE:rook

This is the exact example that I find myself in. I didn't get my anterless mule deer license in my regular zone so I grabbed an unsubscribed in a zone I have no experience in. I don't have time to go to that zone pre-season and scout as the unsubscribed started about the time I was well into prepping my sheep hunt. Then I spent 4 weekends after my elk. One weekend spend at home then a few weekends aiding a new hunter with their whitetail. Two weekends hunting birds and now I am ready to start with the mule deer. I will be asking help from the forum members. I kind of expect that is one of the things this forum

Quote]

So you don't have time between going for elk, sheep, birds, and helping a new hunter to take a wt(good on you for that). Maybe that undersubscribed licence should have been for someone else. If you get help on this forum good on you, please tell me the name of the thread, so I can make sure all the info is there. If you lead with that story, people might tell you to pound sand.

[elkhunter11]

SORRY ELKHUNTER BUT MY PRIORITIES ARE DIFFERENT FROM YOURS AND I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO YOU APPLYING THEM TO ALL OTHER HUNTERS AND THEN BITCHING BECAUSE THEY DON'T COMPLY!


I am not one of the people posting in desperation for someone to help me find a place to hunt, because I applied in a wmu that I know nothing about.

I will be asking help from the forum members. I kind of expect that is one of the things this forum stands for.


So because your priorities are different than many of the other members,myself included, you expect someone else to find a place for you to hunt? I am usually more than willing to help out, but I do make exceptions for people that can't be bothered to help themselves, because they "expect" someone to do it for them.

If you lead with that story, people might tell you to pound sand.

Quite likely.

[stokcondave]

....it is not a 16 year wait....it has been that long for the top priority 30-35 guys...

....if you put in now, you will likely NEVER be drawn in your lifetime.

LC

Ok I'd be pretty ****ed off with that one too then

[ishootbambi]

[QUOTE=;1688730]
. I didn't get my anterless mule deer license in my regular zone so I grabbed an unsubscribed in a zone I have no experience in.
!

its a mule doe...:confused:....just drive into whatever area the tag is for with a landowners map. the dumb things will be standing there in the ditch and will give you plenty of time to track down permission. heck you could do that with a buck for that matter.

[MountainTi]

Actually some people appear to be living in a dream. They apply for the goat and sheep hunts ,because they dream of going on the hunt of a lifetime, just like the people on the television shows, but they don't take the time to think about what is involved until they actually draw the tag, and they are forced to deal with the reality of such a hunt. I actually know of several people that apply for pretty much every tag that they can, and some of those people would never even attempt to climb into sheep or goat country, due to their physical limitations. Yet that doesn't stop them from applying for those sheep and goat tags every year. The fellow that drew the 437 sheep tag was one of those people. When he was told that he couldn't just ride his atv up close to the sheep, and that he would have to do some hiking, he wasn't at all interested in the hunt.
Other people that I know apply for many tags,all over the province, but when they are drawn for a tag that requires several hundred kilometers of travel, and the associated expenses of setting up a camp, or staying in a hotel, they back out, and don't bother, and let the tag go to waste.
The problem is, that with the application fees being so cheap, it only costs them a few dollars each year to dream of that sheep or goat hunt, but if that cost was increased to $50 or so, by knowing that they would have to pay for the tag if drawn, that cheap dream would no longer be nearly as attractive. Of course it wouldn't stop all of the dreamers from applying, but it would give the people that are really serious about going on such a hunt, better odds of drawing.

These lottery sheep and goat hunts need to change, they are "once in a lifetime" for pete's sake (yeah I know 438 actually isn't). $500 app./tag fee, which is obviously returned if not drawn, would weed out the people putting in their wives, daughters, sons, dogs, and whoever else they can think of that really have no intention of hunting or no appreciation of what they really have in a tag. Again, these are two highly coveted tags, I'm sure anybody that is serious or appreciates what these tags would mean, would be more than willing to shell out $500 for either of them.

[Jamie Black R/T]

yep i see guys in the local shop every june with a list of win#'s and a list of draws.

usually about 7-8 applications per person. Kids, Wives, Cousins, Uncles....everyone applies for everything.....i dont think a single member of that family has shot a deer more than 100 yards from the truck in their entire hunting career. A high country goat or sheep hunt is never going happen should they get drawn.

im not delusional....no way im prepared to chase a mountain goat....so i dont apply.

i agree that something should be done with the lottery tags to weed out the "apply for everything" group.

Id pay a 500 application fee for bison knowing 497 would be refunded should i not get drawn. Id bet the applications for that tag would be cut in half if they did that.

[sheephunter]

There was a 14 year old young man that killed a monster of a goat in southern Alberta a few years ago on one of these once in a lifetime tags. Is this the kind of hunter we want to keep from applying with these high applications fees? Because you know it would. We can't make resident hunting a game only for the affluent.

[MountainTi]

There was a 14 year old young man that killed a monster of a goat in southern Alberta a few years ago on one of these once in a lifetime tags. Is this the kind of hunter we want to keep from applying with these high applications fees? Because you know it would. We can't make resident hunting a game only for the affluent.

I'm talking 2 highly sought after tags, not all tags. I'd be willing to bet a pretty large majority of serious sheep (goat) hunters would glady pay $500 for one of these tags (to keep Fido from applying). I know as a 14 year old I would have figured out a way for a tag like that (although when I was 14 there was no such thing and it wouldn't have been $500 :)).
Do you suppose it was that 14 year old kids idea to put in for the goat draw? I'm thinking it may have been someone older....And I'd be willing to bet in killing a big goat, someone with a bit of dedication may have taken him out (I'm guessing the one that put him in for the draw) and would have been more than happy to shell out a higher price for a ONCE IN A LIFETIME tag.
How many serious guys spend more money on a pair of boots than that tag should be worth?

[ishootbambi]

These lottery sheep and goat hunts need to change, they are "once in a lifetime" for pete's sake (yeah I know 438 actually isn't). $500 app./tag fee, which is obviously returned if not drawn, would weed out the people putting in their wives, daughters, sons, dogs, and whoever else they can think of that really have no intention of hunting or no appreciation of what they really have in a tag.

ive been saying this for years. thats the reason there are over 10000 sheep apps yet only 2000 tags sold every year. that guy taking out a goat in the dead of night on his wifes tag fries me to no end.......

[ishootbambi]

. We can't make resident hunting a game only for the affluent.

you said in a thread not long ago that those with money have advantages over those that dont. i guess you think its only ok sometimes?

[sheephunter]

I'm talking 2 highly sought after tags, not all tags. I'd be willing to bet a pretty large majority of serious sheep (goat) hunters would glady pay $500 for one of these tags (to keep Fido from applying). I know as a 14 year old I would have figured out a way for a tag like that (although when I was 14 there was no such thing and it wouldn't have been $500 :)).
Do you suppose it was that 14 year old kids idea to put in for the goat draw? I'm thinking it may have been someone older....And I'd be willing to bet in killing a big goat, someone with a bit of dedication may have taken him out (I'm guessing the one that put him in for the draw) and would have been more than happy to shell out a higher price for a ONCE IN A LIFETIME tag.
How many serious guys spend more money on a pair of boots than that tag should be worth?

I think the key phrase is a "pretty large majority". Do we really want to get into a situation where access to the resource is controlled by your income alone? Don't get me wrong, I get as frustrated as anyone by all the applicants and all those that likely shouldn't be applying but I guess I was raised with premise that the animals belong to the people and all should have equal access. A good pair of boots don't belong to the people. If anyone is eliminated from drawing because they can't afford to play it flies in the face of everything we hold dear about hunting in this province. I'd have no trouble ponying up $1500 a year for the high profile draws in Alberta but it bothers me that others may not be in the position to do so.

[ishootbambi]

ive said it a dozen times.....i dont think we need to price anyone out of the game with exhorbitant tag fees. i still think the best solution is a 25 dollar application for the draw. anyone who can afford to hunt can afford that, but those who apply simply because its only 3 bucks would be thinking twice about applying their wife, daughter, father who died last year and dog.

[MountainTi]

I think the key phrase is a "pretty large majority". Do we really want to get into a situation where access to the resource is controlled by your income alone? Don't get me wrong, I get as frustrated as anyone by all the applicants and all those that likely shouldn't be applying but I guess I was raised with premise that the animals belong to the people and all should have equal access. A good pair of boots don't belong to the people. If anyone is eliminated from drawing because they can't afford to play it flies in the face of everything we hold dear about hunting in this province. I'd have no trouble ponying up $1500 a year for the high profile draws in Alberta but it bothers me that others may not be in the position to do so.

If you can't afford to pony up the $1500 for a 438 sheep tag, go buy a $50 general tag then. Let's look at the bison draw for another example, I kind of excluded it. You get that draw, it's gonna cost you a ton of money as it is to get that animal, I'm thinking if you can afford to go hunt it, you can afford more than $3.50 to apply for it

[sheephunter]

you said in a thread not long ago that those with money have advantages over those that dont. i guess you think its only ok sometimes?

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions ISB......that's not like you.

It's important to keep statements in context...if you are interested in a productive discussion that is...apparently you aren't. I've always been an advocate of equal access to our hunting and angling resources but thanks for your pathetic attempt to make it sound otherwise. Accepting something as fact does not mean I endorse it.

[sheephunter]

If you can't afford to pony up the $1500 for a 438 sheep tag, go buy a $50 general tag then.

So people with more money should have opportunity at better tags? I don't buy it. It's a public resource and access should be equal.

[ishootbambi]

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions ISB......that's not like you.

It's important to keep statements in context...if you are interested in a productive discussion that is...apparently you aren't. I've always been an advocate of equal access to our hunting and angling resources but thanks for your pathetic attempt to make it sound otherwise.

dont whine at me....YOU SAID IT!!!!

i tried the search but came up dry or i would quote it for you. are you denying it?

[sheephunter]

dont whine at me....YOU SAID IT!!!!

i tried the search but came up dry or i would quote it for you. are you denying it?

Accepting something as fact does not mean I endorse it.

Go troll somewhere else ISB...this has been a very civil and productive discussion until now. Glad to see you living up to the new AO moto ISB

Originally Posted by omega50
AO-" Boldy jumping to conclusions about what we think you meant by that remark."

[ishootbambi]

Accepting something as fact does not mean I endorse it.

Go troll somewhere else ISB...this has been a very civil and productive discussion until now.

they were your words. cant think of a good reply so head for the insults? cmon......

[MountainTi]

So people with more money should have opportunity at better tags? I don't buy it. It's a public resource and access should be equal.

Not better tags...ONCE IN A LIFETIME tags. Do you think that the guys who are actually partaking in these hunts when they are drawn cannot afford the price of a $500 tag? If you can't scrape together the $500, you're going to have trouble affording the hunt. If you're serious about it (which I'm sure 8000 of those applicants aren't), $500 won't be a problem

[sheephunter]

Not better tags...ONCE IN A LIFETIME tags. Do you think that the guys who are actually partaking in these hunts when they are drawn cannot afford the price of a $500 tag? If you can't scrape together the $500, you're going to have trouble affording the hunt. If you're serious about it (which I'm sure 8000 of those applicants aren't), $500 won't be a problem

Are you talking a $500 tag or a $500 refundable application fee? I suspect there are loads of guys that are serious about these hunts that couldn't afford to be out $1500 every year for an application, even if only for a few months.

[pottymouth]

I think , there needs to be some kind of checks and enforcement on win cards. We got no one verifying that anyone and everyone who has a win card , has a valid one. When I mean valid , I mean has actually completed the hunting course. That would eliminate , a lot of fido's I suspect.

[elkhunter11]

I would hate to see it happen, where the price gets to the point where a significant percentage of hunters can't afford a tag, so I am against a $1500 tag as much as I am against allowing paid access for hunting. However, I am also against seeing the high profile tags wasted, or the system being abused, as some people have described. Why not start with having the persons credit card charged as soon as the person is drawn, and see what happens? If that doesn't have the desired effect, then we can consider other alternatives such as raising the application fees or the tag prices for the lottery tags, or the tags that are averaging a 10 year or longer wait. Of course we do also need to seriously look at eliminating the outfitter allocations for those tags that have residents waiting 10 years or more to draw.

[Walleyes]

Not better tags...ONCE IN A LIFETIME tags. Do you think that the guys who are actually partaking in these hunts when they are drawn cannot afford the price of a $500 tag? If you can't scrape together the $500, you're going to have trouble affording the hunt. If you're serious about it (which I'm sure 8000 of those applicants aren't), $500 won't be a problem


I think your heading down a slippery slope with this MT.. What you are doing is putting a value on our game. Whats next,, if one will pay $500.00 then maybe, a $1000.00, if some will pay that then what next,, you see where this is going. It starts with sheep then maybe we start managing some prime Mule deer habitat for the same reason, then we get into it there, only allowing so many tags and charging crazy prices for those draws and tags.. No that is a road I would just as soon stay away from. In reality that would be a scarier game than payed access. With payed access there would at least be competition between buisnesses with this one entity would hold all the cards and charge as they would feel.

[MountainTi]

I would hate to see it happen, where the price gets to the point where a significant percentage of hunters can't afford a tag, so I am against a $1500 tag as much as I am against allowing paid access for hunting. However, I am also against seeing the high profile tags wasted, or the system being abused, as some people have described. Why not start with having the persons credit card charged as soon as the person is drawn, and see what happens? If that doesn't have the desired effect, then we can consider other alternatives such as raising the application fees or the tag prices for the lottery tags, or the tags that are averaging a 10 year or longer wait. Of course we do also need to seriously look at eliminating the outfitter allocations for those tags that have residents waiting 10 years or more to draw.

Unfortunately $50 charged on your credit card isn't going to be much of a deterrent to most people nowadays.

[MountainTi]

I think your heading down a slippery slope with this MT.. What you are doing is putting a value on our game. Whats next,, if one will pay $500.00 then maybe, a $1000.00, if some will pay that then what next,, you see where this is going. It starts with sheep then maybe we start managing some prime Mule deer habitat for the same reason, then we get into it there, only allowing so many tags and charging crazy prices for those draws and tags.. No that is a road I would just as soon stay away from. In reality that would be a scarier game than payed access. With payed access there would at least be competition between buisnesses with this one entity would hold all the cards and charge as they would feel.

Again, once in a lifetime tags. Now if they were to come up with say, a once in a lifetime mule tag on suffield, I would be all for that too :).
Many of the highly sought after tags in the US are using the same system, lot's of guys up here are applying for those, seems to be working well

[pottymouth]

I think , there needs to be some kind of checks and enforcement on win cards. We got no one verifying that anyone and everyone who has a win card , has a valid one. When I mean valid , I mean has actually completed the hunting course. That would eliminate , a lot of fido's I suspect.

All you need is a win number for fishing. When you fill out the form you just check the box that says you completed the hunter s training, and off you go. Nobody checks! I wonder how many are out there , hunting and applying for draws.

[Walleyes]

Again, once in a lifetime tags. Now if they were to come up with say, a once in a lifetime mule tag on suffield, I would be all for that too :).
Many of the highly sought after tags in the US are using the same system, lot's of guys up here are applying for those, seems to be working well


Well now see here we go.. Now its Suffield Mule deer tag.. Next lets do it up in the Chin wildlife preserve for Moose.. Ohh we made money there lets create one in Wainwright for WhiteTail. Well this is going well lets close off all the eastern slopes, create a trophy bull elk area and charge $1500.00 for a coveted Trophy bull elk tag.. I see where you are going MT but this one would scare me. You know as well as I do with polititions so earger to please and being the greedy organisations we know them to be would have a run away with this. They would keep everyone happy here. They would not outlaw hunting in order to keep us happy but they would make it unafordable for most and that would keep the anti groups happy.. Scarry stuff if you ask me,

[BigJon]

I think , there needs to be some kind of checks and enforcement on win cards. We got no one verifying that anyone and everyone who has a win card , has a valid one. When I mean valid , I mean has actually completed the hunting course. That would eliminate , a lot of fido's I suspect.

A little off topic but...The hunting course/testing wasn't always mandatory was it? There are probably alot of hunters 40+ in age that didn't require the course.

I may be wrong on that though.

[stokcondave]

The OP states that the application fees are too low and tags are getting wasted, because everybody applies for hunts they will not do. If the tags are too expensive then that would be another excuse for people to waste a tag.If you had a mandatory time period, as to when you had to pick up the tag(or it goes to the next person)maybe people would think about what their getting into. This would give them a chance to back out, the tag goes to the next guy and not wasted.

[elkhunter11]

If you had a mandatory time period, as to when you had to pick up the tag(or it goes to the next person)maybe people would think about what their getting into.

That was already brought up earlier in the thread, and the issue is timing. As it is, we don't see the draw results until July or August, which doesn't leave a lot of time to plan time off of work, get out to meet land owners, do some scouting etc. Delaying things even further leaves us even less time for those things. Now if the draw times were moved up to compensate, then that would be a possible solution, as long as the unpurchased tags were made available using the current priority system, and not just issued on a first come first served basis.