Bass in Alberta?

[BigA]

I heard a rumor that there are a couple of spots in the province that hold bass in them? The person I talked to, lived his whole life in Sherwood Park. He said that there is a pond behind the mall in Sherwood Park that had bass in it at one time? Can anyone confirm if this is true or if they are still there? Any other spots that people have heard of? Where/Are they stocked fish? How else would they get there?

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

I dont think Bass would survive our weather . Ill ask my buddy who lives right by there . I think if you mean festival place there use to be trout in there.

[BigA]

I dont think Bass would survive our weather . Ill ask my buddy who lives right by there . I think if you mean festival place there use to be trout in there.
I didn't think Bass would survive here either. I'm not sure if it's festival place. The way it was described to me is that there is a pond that is behind the mall that is connected through an underground waterway to Broadmoor Lake, which is stocked with Bows. I was told that apparently, when they originally stocked broadmoor, they had problems keeping the trout because the fry would swim up the waterway to the other pond and become tasty morsels for the bass.

[sparky660]

I heard that there was one North east of Athabasca.

[sparky660]

I thought I heard something about bass and there were some stocked in Island lake near Smokey Lake. This is from the Alberta SRD webpage here is the link: http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/fishingalberta/statusfish.aspx


It looks like it didn't work.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

This is from the horses mouth .I bet theres all kinds of non native fish in our lakes but, to catch one in the numbers we catch other species of fish would be not that great , I mean there could be a flook that you catch a smally .

Species of 'Undetermined' Status
Smallmouth Bass
Smallmouth bass were stocked into Island Lake (near Smoky Lake) between 1977 and 1984. Until 1989 there was some evidence of natural reproduction. It is not known whether this population is self-sustaining at the present time. However it is presumed there are a few fish left. As this is a non-native species, no special monitoring is planned.

[wake]

Every year there are still reports of Smallies out of island lake, some evidence indicates they are or were spawning as many small fish have been caught.

Last year we had 2 reports that were confirmed.

[SNAPFisher]

Last year we had 2 reports that were confirmed.

Confirmed as in seeing the actual fish live? Enquiry minds want to know :innocent:

[wake]

The two were brought to the lab by two diffirent individuals, they suspected they had caught bass, and yes they were correct...

There are still bass in the lake but the population level is unknown as no netting has been done.

It is likely that they are caught fairly regularly by people ''in the know'' who just dont report it.

I am thinking of maybe taking a trip out there in July to test the idea.

[Big Red 250]

I live 600 miles straight east of Edmonton and we have several smallmouth bass lakes. they have no problem surviving our Canadian winters. They are in my opinion very tasty.

[Jester]

I live 600 miles straight east of Edmonton and we have several smallmouth bass lakes. they have no problem surviving our Canadian winters. They are in my opinion very tasty.

10-4 on the tasty.:)

Plus they are srappy little fighters.

[sparky660]

This is from the horses mouth .I bet theres all kinds of non native fish in our lakes but, to catch one in the numbers we catch other species of fish would be not that great , I mean there could be a flook that you catch a smally .

Species of 'Undetermined' Status
Smallmouth Bass
Smallmouth bass were stocked into Island Lake (near Smoky Lake) between 1977 and 1984. Until 1989 there was some evidence of natural reproduction. It is not known whether this population is self-sustaining at the present time. However it is presumed there are a few fish left. As this is a non-native species, no special monitoring is planned.


It would be worth trying I think though. Especially ig people are claiming to catch something.

[gprime27]

Well there's bass in BC, in surveyors lake and the winters there aren't exactly nice..

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

It would be worth trying I think though. Especially ig people are claiming to catch something.

Thats a big ole 10-4

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Well there's bass in BC, in surveyors lake and the winters there aren't exactly nice..

But there winter temps dont hit - 40 for a week at a time . And there are lots of places in and around the pentiction area for small mouth and large mouth bass as well as on the island.

[Jorg]

Well BBJ the water temp under the ice stays somewhat stable,any thing that goes below zero will freeze--I don't understand why we don't have Bass stocked more often in this province especially in the southern WID reservoirs I think it would be a lot of fun to pursue a new species

[Suka]

Couldn't agree more Jorg, smallmouth is the gamefish, screw tout. The only fish I know that tastes better than bass is dorado.

[whitetailhntr]

lots of bass in eastern manitoba and north western ontario and it get'sjust as cold there if not coolder than here...i grew up there and walked to school everyday..trust me it is freakin' cold there.

[TundraBuck]

Hell I don't care about eating them, it would just be neat to put them into some lakes, but it'd be tough I think to manage them to get trophy sizes, most people would want to keep them to see how they taste,

[Jorg]

I don't think they'd be tough to manage I doubt the bucket brigade will hone in on them till they are well established and serious fishermen would practice c/r anyhow

[Rockyman]

I think the main reason that they aren't found in Alberta is because they are not native to the main river basins (e.g. Athabasca, North Saskatchewan and South Saskatchewan). It definately isn't the climate - they do fine in northern Ontario which is at least as cold as Edmonton and south.

If you put bass and rainbow, brook or brown trout in the same water the bass will usually outcompete them and will take over. They can co-exist with lake trout because they occupy different habitats for most of the year.

I've seen lakes ruined in Ontario because of bass infiltration so please don't get any ideas about doing your own bass planting experiment in Alberta. Just look at the impact that perch have had in many lakes here.

I've always found bass to be a bit on fishy side myself so I never kept many. However they are fun to catch.

[muzzy]

Lots of bass in manitoba and north west ontario and its a way colder there than alberta They would survive in alberta no problem

[Jorg]

I think the main reason that they aren't found in Alberta is because they are not native to the main river basins (e.g. Athabasca, North Saskatchewan and South Saskatchewan). It definately isn't the climate - they do fine in northern Ontario which is at least as cold as Edmonton and south.

If you put bass and rainbow, brook or brown trout in the same water the bass will usually outcompete them and will take over. They can co-exist with lake trout because they occupy different habitats for most of the year.

I've seen lakes ruined in Ontario because of bass infiltration so please don't get any ideas about doing your own bass planting experiment in Alberta. Just look at the impact that perch have had in many lakes here.

I've always found bass to be a bit on fishy side myself so I never kept many. However they are fun to catch.


I see that that you mention 3 introduced species--rainbows(other than in the Athabasca drainage) browns and brookies. I'm hard pressed to find the difference between one introduced species and another,if people would enjoy fishing for them I think it would take pressure off our native fish

[wake]

In recent times there has been talk of adding a few more species to the list of stocked fish in Alberta.

-Remember Chester lake is now home to introduced Dolly Varden.

-Asian Grass carp have been introduced in many irrigation canals and run off ponds.

-Kokanee were once added to many waters in the province, and may just be again in the future.

-Smallmouth bass would do fine as a stocked species in Alberta in lakes set aside for them.

It would also take the pressure off native species, and thats the goal, isnt it???

[bobbypetrolia]

I believe every province except Alberta has 'em.
Not sure about the maritimes.........every other one does.

[Bushrat]

Yes N.B. and N.S got lots of them. I think Newfoundland is the only place that dosen't.

[raggmann]

[QUOTE=Rockyman;154605]
I've seen lakes ruined in Ontario because of bass infiltration so please don't get any ideas about doing your own bass planting experiment in Alberta. Just look at the impact that perch have had in many lakes here. QUOTE]


Where can we find these perch lakes?
We live East of Stettler and can't find a lake we can catch perch without driving for 2 hours or more.

[happy perch fisher]

While most of these lakes get fished out as soon as they get found out they have perch in there aka 4-6inchers left. Then everyone says there stunted and try to kill them all off.

[Brian]

Bass were stocked in Mons Lake (northeast of Smoky Lake) years ago. They survived for a while but I don't think anyone's caught one there for a long time. I know I didn't. Nice pike & perch though at times.

[avb3]

I see that that you mention 3 introduced species--rainbows(other than in the Athabasca drainage) browns and brookies. I'm hard pressed to find the difference between one introduced species and another,if people would enjoy fishing for them I think it would take pressure off our native fish

The problem with introduced species is that they can bring diseases or out compete native species. A classic example is the western cutthroat trout. It is now threatned in Alberta, and the primary reason is that it cannot compete with the introduced rainbow or brookies, along with habitat loss. For a more complete description of this species, see this link to the Status (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/status/pdf/WCTR.pdf)report from F&W.

[Jorg]

The problem with introduced species is that they can bring diseases or out compete native species. A classic example is the western cutthroat trout. It is now threatned in Alberta, and the primary reason is that it cannot compete with the introduced rainbow or brookies, along with habitat loss. For a more complete description of this species, see this link to the Status (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/status/pdf/WCTR.pdf)report from F&W.

I don't get your point---introduced Rainbows,Browns and Brookies are regularly being stocked and then protected in this province, as I said before I'm hard pressed to find any reason why some reservoirs can't be stocked with bass

[FisherPotch]

I think his point was just to give example of what these non-native species can do, in terms of damage to native fish. A good read and a swell example IMHO. A very valid point avb3.

I wouldn't mind seeing some bass in Alberta. With that said, I sure as heck wouldn't want to stalk a res with them. Some pot hole where they can't get out would be preferable. Illegal transference of fish is another hot topic and with so many people that desire bass fishing it becomes more of an issue. Too many people trying to play god.

I always thought that Bass would do well in alberta but with the low survival or low to no spawning would indicate different. I wonder why, elevation maybe?

There are several factors that play into why cutties arn't doing well. One thing is for sure though, more competition wouldn't help them.

[Jorg]

I don't think bass and cutts occupy the same habitat. I understand well enough about the risks that are involved in the introduction of a new species, All one has to do is look at the catastrophe that happened in Lake Victoria with the introduction of the Nile perch. But bass and the native warm water fish of this province co-exist quite well everywhere else where they live in the same waters.For example if Crawling Valley reservoir would have been stocked with bass instead of (non native) rainbows initially I think the odds would be good that a self sustaining population would have developed before pike and walleye established themselves.By introducing small bass into waters that already hold large amounts of predators it would be difficult for them to take.

[FisherPotch]

I'd agree that cutts and bass most likely havn't made any encounters in a long time if ever.

It is most certainly true that they (Bass) inhabit many waters naturaly that are also inhabited by many of our indigeonous fish such as Walleye or Pike.

I'm not familiar with Crawling just because I'm north of EDM. But from your post (if I'm not confused) Crawling is over run with Eye's and Pike? and maybe if they stocked Bass when they stocked the Bows the Bass could have taken well but now it would be tough. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The thing that I ponder is why they (Bass) aren't here naturaly.

I've heard great things about Bass many atime and I intend to fish for them at some point. I hear frequently about how good of a fight they are and how scrapy they are. In my opinion It would be a real challenge if they had teeth like true sport fish. Lol sorry had to be said.

Bass are very popular sport fish but I have to wonder why. They have no teeth to bite you off, they'll eat damn near anything that moves, and you can mouth them. Doesn't sound all that challenging. Someone on this thread made a comment about trout. Trout can be picky eaters, and they put up a good fight also (proportional to their size). Also they have teeth lol.

After setting a hook I rarely miss a fish. 99% of the time I lose a fish I lose a lure. And it sure aint cause they are heavy or good fighters. It's cause they have razors in thier mouth (Walleye, Pike).

I like catching new species but I have to ask "am I missing something?" Why is it we want to catch bass again?

[avb3]

I too like fishing Bass... and throughly enjoyed it in Ontario.

Jorg, you wonder why bass or other introduced species cannot be stocked in reservoir. The problem is illegal releases, potential of eggs being carried by ducks and other waterfowl to new areas, escapement during flooding and high water times and other accidental releases.

You may recall that grass eating carp were introduced into the irrigation canals to help with the flow of water. They were triploids, meaning that they could not reproduce, so escapement was not an issue. There was much thought and research put into that introduction to ensure that triploids truly could not reproduce.

There have been too many introduced species in the past, and they caused too many unintended or known consequences. It is better for F&W to play it safe, and let's enhance the populations of our native species and the habitat they live in.

[Jorg]

I think they don't occur here naturally because the sask river and all it's tributaries drain into the Hudson bay and all other waters drain into the arctic ocean (except the milk river system) kind off creating a natural barrier. I to am a fan of toothed fish have been for years but then again I still like to catch the toothless Sturgeon. I think catching bass would be fun, getting to try out new techniques and stuff. The argument that a new species such as bass would wreck havoc on species already at risk here doesn't fly with me as two of the most threatened species (Bull trout and East slope cutts) do not inhabit the same waters and I doubt that bass will be chowing down on Sturgeon.Kind of funny I heard some where that there is going to be more lakes stocked with (introduced) golden trout, one would think that with the trouble that the east slope cutt is in that it would be stocked into these pristine waters to perserve it's gene pool. I guess if bass preferred caddis flys instead of spinner baits they would already be available here.

[Jorg]

I too like fishing Bass... and throughly enjoyed it in Ontario.

Jorg, you wonder why bass or other introduced species cannot be stocked in reservoir. The problem is illegal releases, potential of eggs being carried by ducks and other waterfowl to new areas, escapement during flooding and high water times and other accidental releases.

You may recall that grass eating carp were introduced into the irrigation canals to help with the flow of water. They were triploids, meaning that they could not reproduce, so escapement was not an issue. There was much thought and research put into that introduction to ensure that triploids truly could not reproduce.

There have been too many introduced species in the past, and they caused too many unintended or known consequences. It is better for F&W to play it safe, and let's enhance the populations of our native species and the habitat they live in.

Well avb3 I personally have never caught a bass or fished for them. I'm only saying I would like the opportunity to do so close to home. You ask why I wonder Why bass or other introduced species can not be stocked in reservoirs and then mention all the potential problems associated with it--Last time I checked the stocking list in the regs there was plenty of stocking going on of introduced species in the province, and I believe they pose a greater risk to our threatened species than warm water bass would. And you also mention about enhancing our native fish populations and their habitat but as you know I'm sure, the introduced species occupying some of our threatened species habitats are some of the most protected and regulated fish in this province.I'm not trying to argue with you just debating that' all but I think bass would have very little risk associated with their introduction and would enhance the sport fishery in this province greatly

[avb3]

I'm not trying to argue with you just debating that' all but I think bass would have very little risk associated with their introduction and would enhance the sport fishery in this province greatly

Jorg, I agree, no argument and debate is healthy. Even though many introduced species now exist, and are stocked, the fact remains that in some cases those introduced species seemed not to have an impact, and in other cases they definitely did.

I just feel it is the responsible thing to do not to take a chance with any other species. I actually suspect bass would not be a problem, but that is a suspicion, and why take the chance? What if they become prolific and start competing with walleye for food sources? Can you imagine the uproar?

Keep them lines wet and straight!

[FisherPotch]

I can just imagine that uproar. One would think that they would find an equalibrium like I'm sure the do in lakes where they co-exsist.

Quick question. Does Saskatchewan have bass? If so are they Indigenous?

[Yellowtail]

Saskatchewan has largemouth bass in boundary reservoir near Estevan. There is also smallmouth bass in some lakes near the Manitoba border. Both species are stocked. As far as I know, there has not been any adverse effect on native species.

[Jester]

Once you anti-bass guys hook into one you will say "Holy crap this is fun" :D

It's been said before..

Pike,walleye and bass live in the same waters in the east,no reason they can't do it here too.

[JohninAB]

Bass fishing is a blast! Wish we had some bass lakes here for sure.

[wake]

Bass would not be put into waters that already contained a natural fish population, much like trout stocking is done.

Lakes that would be good candidates would be lakes like Hastings that suffered a winterkill a few years ago that decimated the resident perch population.

Other species may be added to those lakes afterwards to start a natural food chain, which triggers better growth patterns and encourages reproduction aswell.

You wont see Bass added to lakes like Slave, pigeon etc...

That just would not happen.

[jinx]

i was skimming through alberta fishing book and saw bass in a lake lost my page and had to search the internet for it. so here it is :)

Smallmouth Bass

Smallmouth bass were stocked into Island Lake (near Smoky Lake) between 1977 and 1984. Until 1989 there was some evidence of natural reproduction. It is not known whether this population is self-sustaining at the present time. However it is presumed there are a few fish left. As this is a non-native species, no special monitoring is planned. http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/fishingalberta/statusfish.aspx

[lippy]

I think they don't occur here naturally because the sask river and all it's tributaries drain into the Hudson bay and all other waters drain into the arctic ocean (except the milk river system) kind off creating a natural barrier. I to am a fan of toothed fish have been for years but then again I still like to catch the toothless Sturgeon. I think catching bass would be fun, getting to try out new techniques and stuff. The argument that a new species such as bass would wreck havoc on species already at risk here doesn't fly with me as two of the most threatened species (Bull trout and East slope cutts) do not inhabit the same waters and I doubt that bass will be chowing down on Sturgeon.Kind of funny I heard some where that there is going to be more lakes stocked with (introduced) golden trout, one would think that with the trouble that the east slope cutt is in that it would be stocked into these pristine waters to perserve it's gene pool. I guess if bass preferred caddis flys instead of spinner baits they would already be available here.

I don't understand why east slope cutt's and bull trout would not inhabit the same water..please enlighten me:huh: Bass would compete with other species for forage ie. food..which would most definitely screw up the food chain in the lake by creating competition with native species. Golden trout do not compete with other species of trout as they live in alpine lakes ..usually above 10,000 feet. Cutthroat could possibly hybridize with rainbow and goldens but I am sure they would not introduce them to lakes where this would be a concern. Largemouth (Black) bass were stocked in some Alberta waters years ago..one such lake being Elkwater Lake in the Cypress Hills but despite attempts at sustaining the population the fishery failed. I agree it would be fun to have bass around however historically it hasn't worked thus far.
Maybe if there were enough interest shown by anglers a new area of freshwater angling could develop.

[Jorg]

Bass are considered a warm water fish same as pike,perch etc. while cutts and bulls are a cold water fish so they generally occupy different habitat's. My point on the golden trout was if an introduced species can be stocked in favor of a native fish to give people an opportunity to try something different then why not also bass. If you check the stocking lists rainbows are regularly stocked into the Kannanaski lakes which is a traditional drainage of native cutts and bulls,I'm aware this is done to enhance the fishing in those areas but it would appear to me that recreational fishing takes priority over conservation there, so arguments that bass can't be stocked here because they will affect the native fish populations sounds hypocritical to me.I think largemouth bass require a warmer all round temp than smallmouth bass so it doesn't surprise me that there was no success with them in Alberta.

[PlayDoh]

Jorg, I think your missing the point. Its not that Bass are not stocked because people favor trout, its that rainbow trout can coexist with Brown trout, white fish, walleye, pike, cutthout, or bull trout. I'm sure there are problems with every introduction, but its possible that Bass would have too much of a negative effect on the other fish.

Just because Bass won't eat Sturgeon, does not mean they will have no effect on Sturgeon. There are countless ways one species can effect another, even if they don't share the same body of water.

With all that said, I'm sure Bass has trouble surviving simply because of the Pike in Alberta and Sask. Pike have too firm a foot-hold here, to be avoided. Do you think anyone helped Pike get in to Crawling Valley Res (CVR)? Where are the trout that were in stocked before walleye? Pike food.

You'll have better success introducing a species that have polar opposites as the native fish. For example, Brown trout spawn in the Fall, while the native Rainbows spawn in spring. Theres probably a million other reasons why they can co-exist, but I can't list them all.

You can argue that since Brown trout, were introduced over a hundred years ago, they should be considered as non-native as a fish that lives no where near AB naturally, but I don't agree. Fundamentally its correct, but introducing a different species of trout, in a system that sustains trout, is far from being the same as stocking a pond with Bass.

It wouldn't surprise me to hear of some private waters, as Cypris hill tried, providing Bass fishing in or Near AB.

There are also 2 kinds of pressure on fisheries, at least. Angling pressure, which would be reduced on the native fish with another species in the water. There is also environmental pressure, where there is only so much food, for so many fish.

If the competing sport fish eat the same food source, your increasing pressure on the native fish. With as much pressure on our fish and wildlife, we must ensure that we don't make things worse.

A great example is the Asian Snake fish infestation in the states. It all started with 2 fish, and now its costing millions and millions to try and save the natural fisheries, their infesting.

[Jorg]

I don't think I'm missing any points,but one never can tell so let's go through your points
1. Rainbow trout can coexist with Brown trout,Whitefish,Walleye,Pike,Cutthroat trout and bull trout----
---So can Bass, they coexist quite well all over Canada including Trout lakes just look at Kootenay Lake or many other lakes in BC or Ontario plus Bass won't crossbreed with any native species in our province.

2. Just because Bass don't eat Sturgeon does not mean they will not have a effect on Sturgeon there are countless ways one species can effect another even if they don't share the same body of water----
----Sturgeon occur in many places across Canada including drainage's and lakes that contain Bass if there are countless ways Bass can affect Sturgeon even if they don't share the same body of water, I'm all ears maybe you could share a dozen or so

3.With all that said I'm sure Bass has trouble surviving simply because of the Pike in Alberta and Sask ###Where are the Trout that were stocked in Crawling valley Reservoir ,Pike food ?
----Trout were only stocked in CVR to provide a recreational fishery till the other species that currently live there took a foot hold,I don't think the Pike ate the Trout because according to your first point they coexist quite well

4. You'll have better success introducing a species that have polar opposites as the native fish for example Brown trout spawn in the fall while native rainbows spawn in the spring###
---I'm hard pressed to find any reason there that effects anything to do with Bass, Pike spawn in the spring and Whitefish spawn in the fall.A million reasons is a lot but I'm having trouble thinking of one

5.You can argue that since Brown trout were introduced over a hundred years ago,they should be considered as non native as a fish that lives no where near Alberta naturally,but I don't agree fundamentally it is correct but introducing a different species of trout in a system that sustains trout is far from the same as stocking a pond with Bass---
---Well Brown Trout came from Europe not even from the same continent so I'm thinking they didn't live near Alberta either at one time,I'm sure I never mentioned stocking Bass in any waters that contain native Trout but I guess you think it is alright to mess with the genetics of our native trout as long as the system sustains them.

6.You talk about pressure regarding food--
--As I mentioned before Bass coexist quite well with our warm water natives everywhere else I haven't read anything on Bass causing other fish to starve If you have please feel free to share.

7. Regarding the Asian Snakeheads--
---These are a species that were illegally introduced,a species that do not share any waters with our native species. With proper foresight and planning a new species can be introduced successfully one only needs to look at the impact that the Brookies ,rainbows ,Browns,Pheasants etc. have had on the Alberta sportsman

Anyhow Just remember I'm only debating

[PlayDoh]

I agree that its very possible, practical, and would be a bonus to AB's fisheries if you could introduce them successfully, yet for one reason or another, its difficult.

Since every other major factor (weather, latitude, ect) has been addressed, I'd think the fact most of our waters are dominated by Pike is a potential cause for bass survival.

Pike "Co-exist" just fine with anything that can't eat them, since they'll eat anything that moves. I think were lucky that Pike isn't the only fish here, considering how dominant they are.

As for how a Bass introduction could negatively effect a native species like Sturgeon, I don't think its necessary to make a list of methods. Every organism in a contained eco-system can very easily effect others. Disease, competition (directly or indirectly), habitat, migration, tolerance or each other, ect, ect.

There are entire fisheries that have been decimated by over-fishing sardines, for example. You can imagine you know all the variables, and quickly make assumptions regarding nature, but you'll find out quick that the variables are endless.

Well Brown Trout came from Europe not even from the same continent so I'm thinking they didn't live near Alberta either at one time,I'm sure I never mentioned stocking Bass in any waters that contain native Trout but I guess you think it is alright to mess with the genetics of our native trout as long as the system sustains them.

I'll ignore the personal shot, and let you know that Brown Trout are "True Trout" and Rainbows are Salmonids, they can't breed, since their not the same species.

And again, your comparing apples to oranges. Introducing Brown trout to a thriving trout system, isn't even comparable to introducing Bass in to a Trout struggling system.

Unless you have a Biology degree (to start with), I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand all the details as to why or why not their not here, or on their way. I'm sure you could study it for a long time, and still have no idea why their not here.

For most of us, I'd think the fact they've been introduced in the past and failed to thrive, or reproduce effectivly, is all the answer needed. Its not a small task to introduce a fish, especially in a contained water body. You have to construct and entire food chain, that is self sustaining years, and years before you can start to actually stock it.

Maybe its not the Bass that find it difficult, but their neccisary food supply. It could all come down to one tiny, reason, or it could be a riddle that nobody can solve.

All water bodies have tributaries, and you have to consider the effects of your "small contained introduction" getting out of your control. Have we not learned, Atlantic/Pacific Salmon, god playing.

P.S- I'm also here to debate, but if thats your true intentions, you should avoid getting personal. I speak from experience.

[catnthehat]

But there winter temps dont hit - 40 for a week at a time . And there are lots of places in and around the pentiction area for small mouth and large mouth bass as well as on the island.
They sure do in Manitoba though!
Smallmouth bass can live in water and temperatures much colder than largemouth bass can.
I have been thinking of fishing Island Lake for about 20 years now, just never got around to it!:o
Cat

[Big Red 250]

We have a small lake nearby that was used as a rearing pond by fishery's for rainbow, brook and smallmouth bass. Of course, they never got them all when they netted it. now it is a first class fishery for all 3 species. I have no idea if they reproduce tho. I know it's only about 10 acres in size and 50 feet deep in the middle. Must be about 15 years since it was netted. Catch and release only. Some huge fish come out of there and go back in. so, they do coexist with other species. Bass are alot of fun to catch.

[Neil Waugh]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/NeilWaugh/inveremere007.jpg



Caught this Lake Windermere bucket mouth last Christmas. Right off Kinsmen Beach

[McLeod]

Nice fish Neil !

If we could stock some sterile Bass then Province might look at it as a few bodies of water could be considered candidates such as Sherness.

[JohninAB]

Smallie from Big Vermilion Lake in Ontario.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/JohninAB/Bass1.jpg

[Jorg]

I agree that its very possible, practical, and would be a bonus to AB's fisheries if you could introduce them successfully, yet for one reason or another, its difficult.

Since every other major factor (weather, latitude, ect) has been addressed, I'd think the fact most of our waters are dominated by Pike is a potential cause for bass survival.

Pike "Co-exist" just fine with anything that can't eat them, since they'll eat anything that moves. I think were lucky that Pike isn't the only fish here, considering how dominant they are.

As for how a Bass introduction could negatively effect a native species like Sturgeon, I don't think its necessary to make a list of methods. Every organism in a contained eco-system can very easily effect others. Disease, competition (directly or indirectly), habitat, migration, tolerance or each other, ect, ect.

There are entire fisheries that have been decimated by over-fishing sardines, for example. You can imagine you know all the variables, and quickly make assumptions regarding nature, but you'll find out quick that the variables are endless.



I'll ignore the personal shot, and let you know that Brown Trout are "True Trout" and Rainbows are Salmonids, they can't breed, since their not the same species.

And again, your comparing apples to oranges. Introducing Brown trout to a thriving trout system, isn't even comparable to introducing Bass in to a Trout struggling system.

Unless you have a Biology degree (to start with), I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand all the details as to why or why not their not here, or on their way. I'm sure you could study it for a long time, and still have no idea why their not here.

For most of us, I'd think the fact they've been introduced in the past and failed to thrive, or reproduce effectivly, is all the answer needed. Its not a small task to introduce a fish, especially in a contained water body. You have to construct and entire food chain, that is self sustaining years, and years before you can start to actually stock it.

Maybe its not the Bass that find it difficult, but their neccisary food supply. It could all come down to one tiny, reason, or it could be a riddle that nobody can solve.

All water bodies have tributaries, and you have to consider the effects of your "small contained introduction" getting out of your control. Have we not learned, Atlantic/Pacific Salmon, god playing.

P.S- I'm also here to debate, but if thats your true intentions, you should avoid getting personal. I speak from experience.

Sorry Playdoh didn't mean to come across as strong as I did, I realize we are all on the same team just trying to enjoy a recreational and/or sporting activity.But with that said I feel I need to comment on the above post.
You are absolutely correct I do not have a biology degree but I'm assuming the people responsible for stocking smallmouth bass into Island lake did or had available to them information from fisheries biologists, Island lake is not a pothole (correct me if I'm wrong), If the biologists deemed Bass to be a safe introduction there I don't see why southern reservoirs would be any different.I keep hearing about what if's, maybe that and playing god if that would have been the attitude years ago we wouldn't have the fine trout fishery that we do in this province today.I haven't yet heard anyone say if we introduce bass into this province it will cause damage to_______ and for this reason.
I believe if a serious effort was made to strategically stock bass in this province we all could have an opportunity to fish for something new

BTW- all char,trout and salmon are from the Salmonidae family and yes Brown trout and rainbows can be crossed the resulting offspring are called Brownbows---just learned that today

[lippy]

Nice fish Neil !

If we could stock some sterile Bass then Province might look at it as a few bodies of water could be considered candidates such as Sherness.

You are right Mcleod! I recall in the 70's that the government was considering stocking Sheerness with bass..for some reason or other it was never carried out or was never tried. Does anyone recall if it was tried?

[PlayDoh]

No worries Jorg, I have a thick skin, and I know where your coming from. I wont pretend to know of certain details regarding Bass introduction, since I myself don't have a degree in Biology, or know all the facts.

I would think Sheerness would be the perfect candidate, if there ever was one.

As for the "BrownBows" thats the kind of 'God playing' I fear. BrownBows are made in test tubes, since Browns spawn in fall, Bow's in spring, it would never 'happen' on its own. Not to mention I think most of the BrownBows were blind, or went blind after release.

I'm sure you could breed a chicken and a turkey in a labratory, but you won't see mother nature spit one out.


Some more Churkey anyone? Turken sandwich?

Theres also the 'Brake' Brown trout and a lake trout. I just hope those kind of experiments don't happen here.

[catnthehat]

Bass are considered a warm water fish same as pike,perch etc. there was no success with them in Alberta.
Actually, smallmouth bass do quite well in cold water, and although pike can do well in warm water,thewyare in fact a cold water fish.....
Cat

[Jorg]

No worries Jorg, I have a thick skin, and I know where your coming from. I wont pretend to know of certain details regarding Bass introduction, since I myself don't have a degree in Biology, or know all the facts.

I would think Sheerness would be the perfect candidate, if there ever was one.

As for the "BrownBows" thats the kind of 'God playing' I fear. BrownBows are made in test tubes, since Browns spawn in fall, Bow's in spring, it would never 'happen' on its own. Not to mention I think most of the BrownBows were blind, or went blind after release.

I'm sure you could breed a chicken and a turkey in a labratory, but you won't see mother nature spit one out.


Some more Churkey anyone? Turken sandwich?

Theres also the 'Brake' Brown trout and a lake trout. I just hope those kind of experiments don't happen here.

This has nothing to do with Bass but just to share info I know that the rainbow trout that were used to stock lake Midnapore which originated in Washington state if memory serves correct were fall spawners what I was told was they were reprogrammed so the hatchery could raise the fry over the winter to have them ready for spring stocking.I often observed them spawning in the fall in that lake.I have no idea if Alberta hatcheries do the same

[Jorg]

Actually, smallmouth bass do quite well in cold water, and although pike can do well in warm water,thewyare in fact a cold water fish.....
Cat

I might be wrong but if memory serves correct Pike are considered a warm water species it has nothing to do about the temp in the arctic it has something to do about how the water warms up in certain conditions and the fishes spawning criteria

[steelhead]

Trout, whitefish, and pike are ...COLD water fish

Walleyes, perch, smallmouth bass, are......COOL water fish


Largemouth bass, bluegills, sunfish are...... WARM water fish



COLD, COOL, and WARM are the general terms.

[Jester]

Trout, whitefish, and pike are ...COLD water fish

Walleyes, perch, smallmouth bass, are......COOL water fish


Largemouth bass, bluegills, sunfish are...... WARM water fish



COLD, COOL, and WARM are the general terms.

Lake Erie has every species that you mentioned.

So what is lake Erie?

Cold,Cool or Warm?:rolleyes:

[steelhead]

Ok think of it like this. in lake erie, in the summer, the cold water in the depths, and the warm on the surface. So, the bass and panfish will be in the warm along shore and shallow water to say 20 feet, the smallies and walleyes will be in from 20-50 feet of water, the trout and whitfish will be deep in the cold at a hundred feet.


the lakes arent considered warm, cool, and cold,. Just the fish.


In albertas rivers, the reason why bass wont go up and hurt the cutts, is like this.

The infant streams coming from the deep mountains is very cold, whites, bulls, and cutts are cold water fish, Heading out on the praries where it has time to warm, you see the trout and whities dissapear and only see pike, walleyes and goldeyes. from cold to cool. There are no natural warm water species in the rivers of this province , no catfish, no bluegills, no largies. Goldeye are on the line from warm to cool. Since no warm water species exist in any waters in Alberta, Theres no way to really know if they survive. But knowing the bass dont like cold water, they wont go cutt hunting.
Oh yah, the Stonecat is found in the milk river in its lower warmer reaches in Alberta. They are a warm water fish. Glad i corrected myself around here, before someone else did.


Steelie

[Jester]

Ok think of it like this. in lake erie, in the summer, the cold water in the depths, and the warm on the surface. So, the bass and panfish will be in the warm along shore and shallow water to say 20 feet, the smallies and walleyes will be in from 20-50 feet of water, the trout and whitfish will be deep in the cold at a hundred feet.


the lakes arent considered warm, cool, and cold,. Just the fish.

I don't do drugs but it's a blast reading about people who do them...lol..:D

[steelhead]

Whats up Jester, didnt like that response?


Maybee I will answer your question in true AO style!

Jester Replied......."Lake Erie has every species that you mentioned.

So what is lake Erie?

Cold,Cool or Warm?"



If you had any sense, you would know, that Lake erie is WARM in the summer, COLD in the winter, and COOL in the spring and fall.

I hope that makes sense to ya!

Steelie

[uicehole]

Great debate and let's keep it here on this forum and not onto our waters(and I mean the bucket brigade). I have to take a firm stand against introducing bass in AB. History has too many stories of imports gone bad. True, there are success stories too but why take a chance if we don't understand the full implications? If there's enough interest in bass let it be known and then let the experts make the decision. At least they (hopefully) have an educated chance of making the right decision.

BC has bass firmly established yet it's not all peaches and cream. They've had their problems - just google it yourself.

I for one hope they never introduce bass here - even in closed systems because Joe Schmuck with his bucket will decide he needs bass closer to his home. Look at what's happening with illegal perch stockings. Again looking citing BC, bass was never formally introduced there yet there they are alive and well and they are dealing with illegal stockings into new bodies of water every year. It will happen here too.

By the way, I love bass fishing. But I make special trips to BC to do it.

[Jester]

Whats up Jester, didnt like that response?


Maybee I will answer your question in true AO style!

Jester Replied......."Lake Erie has every species that you mentioned.

So what is lake Erie?

Cold,Cool or Warm?"



If you had any sense, you would know, that Lake erie is WARM in the summer, COLD in the winter, and COOL in the spring and fall.

I hope that makes sense to ya!

Steelie

You just described every lake in Alberta..

I swim in it in the summer..

I drill holes in it in the winter...

spring and fall are great for fishing but cool for swimming..

What is your point?

[steelhead]

theres no point anymore

[clarki]

ive read this whole thread and one very crucial point nobody has considered is water quality and chemistry. not all bodies of water have the same type of water, just because bass have done well in some places like manitoba and BC does not mean they'll thrive in just any body of water. its impractical to compare 2 bodies of water even if they are only 10 k's apart in the same part of the province etc. ontario has very different water than we have here in alberta. this plays a major role in fish populations establishing themselves in a particular body of water. for example if the pH level of a lake isnt optimal for a certain species of fish that species simply wont make it.... another consideration is spawning areas. some lakes dont have the proper substrates to provide a good place for fish to spawn which may lead to a steady decline in that population shortly after they get stocked..... also, the great lakes have all types of habitat and therefore many, many species of fish thriving in the same body of water. not all bodies of water are created equally.

M