FAKE parts?????

[great white whaler]

Run for cover there a hurcules aircraft flying over head ,,,,most parts made in taiwian,,,like the instrment panel that contains the gauges that control the aircraft ,could malfunction at any time ,,,,,,what next give up the CF 18s for new fighter jets made in china ? as of today no more cbc new for me.

[CNP]

The parts work.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2013/01/09/north-arviat-search-hunters.html?cmp=rss

[Scott N]

To me this is just another example of the CBC trying to make the CPC look bad.

[Good Ol' Boy]

Shoot! I thought this was gonna be about boobs!

[midgetwaiter]

Run for cover there a hurcules aircraft flying over head ,,,,most parts made in taiwian,,,like the instrment panel that contains the gauges that control the aircraft ,could malfunction at any time ,,,,,,what next give up the CF 18s for new fighter jets made in china ? as of today no more cbc new for me.

Good luck buying microcontrollers that aren't made in Taiwan.

Most of the electronics that end up being recycled world wide end up in either China or India. There they are stripped of reusable components and discarded in landfills, we basically export the nasty metals to places that don't have environmental controls. What happens with "counterfeits" is that when somebody like Level 3 puts out a tender for 500 chips that haven't been manufactured for 20 years or more it's really hard to find stuff that's been sitting around in a warehouse that long. Sometimes the recyclers will remark chips and mix them up with batches of "new" products, it's hard to be sure.

I bet everyone that has flown on comercial aircraft has been on a flight with some of these components installed, it's been recognized as a major issue for a decade or more.

[Grizzly Adams]

To me this is just another example of the CBC trying to make the CPC look bad.

Rutherford had a parallel version. Actually I thought the broad was fishing for a contract to inspect the suspicious chips. :D Curious to know if it was functioning how you would know it was counterfeit.

Grizz

[airbornedeerhunter]

The parts are fine, if there was any fear within DND circles that this "issue" could cause a J model to go down they would all be grounded. I know the plane well and it's predecessor. Hercs are the primary AC for the delivery of Paratroops, I've flown in them, jumped from them and spent alot of time around them during my career. We had two J models dedicated to our para activites in the Arctic last February, they are awesome planes!

Our AC maintainers, Loadies and Pilots are among the best in the world and if they determined that this issue was a safety factor, the planes would'nt fly. They would not risk the plane, the crew or a cargo compartment full of passengers or jumpers to help the gov't save face.

More Liberal anti-military procurement propaganda. If they choose to have the parts replaced, it will be on the manufacturers dime, it won't cost the taxpayer a red cent.

[Matt L.]

Thanks for that Airborne. People need to remember that our media has little liking for the military.

[rwm1273]

The parts are fine, if there was any fear within DND circles that this "issue" could cause a J model to go down they would all be grounded. I know the plane well and it's predecessor. Hercs are the primary AC for the delivery of Paratroops, I've flown in them, jumped from them and spent alot of time around them during my career. We had two J models dedicated to our para activites in the Arctic last February, they are awesome planes!

Our AC maintainers, Loadies and Pilots are among the best in the world and if they determined that this issue was a safety factor, the planes would'nt fly. They would not risk the plane, the crew or a cargo compartment full of passengers or jumpers to help the gov't save face.

More Liberal anti-military procurement propaganda. If they choose to have the parts replaced, it will be on the manufacturers dime, it won't cost the taxpayer a red cent.
I have worked on many Hercs over the years. All parts are purchased from reputable sources, and come with tracking tags from approved vendors. This is the way it is for DND and any third party overhaul facility they get their parts or the aircraft overhauled at.

There is an issue with bogus parts (Transport Canada term for fake parts) but this affects small operators more so then the larger companies. There was quite a cottage industry in the US a number of years ago where guys would buy salvaged parts from aircraft bone yards, take them to their garages and clean them and repaint them to make them look new or overhauled. They would then put on a new tag, and sell them. Now when parts are overhauled, the individual items replaced must also have tags and be able to be tracked back to their source, not just the whole finished product.

I also would agree with airbornedeerhunter that the CF has top notch staff. Good training, and lots of life time members who take pride in their job. Our Military is not like other countries where their members get minimal training to do a specific job. There is an apprenticeship style training program that rivals what it is in the civilian world. And many of our members in fact get trained at civilian schools nowadays.

[great white whaler]

I have worked on many Hercs over the years. All parts are purchased from reputable sources, and come with tracking tags from approved vendors. This is the way it is for DND and any third party overhaul facility they get their parts or the aircraft overhauled at.

There is an issue with bogus parts (Transport Canada term for fake parts) but this affects small operators more so then the larger companies. There was quite a cottage industry in the US a number of years ago where guys would buy salvaged parts from aircraft bone yards, take them to their garages and clean them and repaint them to make them look new or overhauled. They would then put on a new tag, and sell them. Now when parts are overhauled, the individual items replaced must also have tags and be able to be tracked back to their source, not just the whole finished product.

I also would agree with airbornedeerhunter that the CF has top notch staff. Good training, and lots of life time members who take pride in their job. Our Military is not like other countries where their members get minimal training to do a specific job. There is an apprenticeship style training program that rivals what it is in the civilian world. And many of our members in fact get trained at civilian schools nowadays.
i would take a genuie 'scrap yard part 'over a cheap (NEW) part any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,made
in china

[nsmitchell]

i would take a genuie 'scrap yard part 'over a cheap (NEW) part any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,made
in china

Neither part is acceptable and would not only be rejected when discovered, but would also be destroyed, the supplier reported and charged. There are ways to bring used parts back into conformity but it's not in the garage. Not only are parts inspected but the fasteners are sample inspected as well.

[thepyrofish]

i would take a genuie 'scrap yard part 'over a cheap (NEW) part any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,made
in china

Hope you never set foot on an airplane then. Some of the biggest aircraft companies build some of the most popular and reliable engines from parts manufactured in China (and many other countries), including critical rotating parts precision machined from titanium.

Their manufacturing and mettalurgy skills are every bit as impressive as those of the western world, if you pay a fair amount for it. If you cheap out you get the kind of crap you find in a dollar store, and that is a problem, but it has nothing to do with where the parts are sourced.

[Big Daddy Badger]

When the word of the day is budget restraint what would you have em do?

Buy cheaper parts made in China, pay more or ground the planes.... gthose are the choices.

I'd rather the parts were not made in China for a number of reasons but... ya gotta do what ya gotta do to stay in operation when John Q Public is wanting to see spending cut.

[Versatile]

I work in an industry that used 75% tiawan parts.

Do you know what tiawan parts are? They are culls from the bigger companies.

Such as Dodge has a press or mold for their fenders or bumpers. When that mold starts to wear they replace it with a new one and the old one get sold to "Tiawan"

Or they are culls, for example working with an older car I was looking at a Greddy intake. For giggles I looked on Ebay and found the same one for 1.2 the price. I ordered both and guess what I found when I had both parts, both were made in the same plant, both were the exact same! The only difference was the ebay didnt have the greddy stamp, it has the spot for the stamp it just wasnt there. After a little more prodding it was the same thing, "tiawan" purchased the worn mold or was selling the ones that didnt meet greddy specs.

[rwm1273]

i would take a genuie 'scrap yard part 'over a cheap (NEW) part any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,made
in china

Lots of parts come from China in legitimate parts. The only place you can still get the vacuum tubes for the glow plug ignition system used on some Twin Otters is in Poland.

The issue is the source of the parts must meet certain standards. It makes no difference where the part is made if it meets the proper standards.

[greylynx]

Lots of parts come from China in legitimate parts. The only place you can still get the vacuum tubes for the glow plug ignition system used on some Twin Otters is in Poland.

The issue is the source of the parts must meet certain standards. It makes no difference where the part is made if it meets the proper standards.

I was waiting for a post like this by someone that knows.

Since I am a geezer, I always wondered how our navy procurred tubes from the former Czechs during the Cold War.

The Polack vacuum tubes are made out of high quality recycled vodka bottles.
Nothing to worry about. Dobra.

[rwm1273]

I was waiting for a post like this by someone that knows.

Since I am a geezer, I always wondered how our navy procurred tubes from the former Czechs during the Cold War.

The Polack vacuum tubes are made out of high quality recycled vodka bottles.
Nothing to worry about. Dobra.

Nie ma za co

[greylynx]

Nie ma za co

Oh Dear. :sHa_shakeshout::)

[traderal]

Chto te kaze

[rwm1273]

Sorry,with all the new world abbreviations on the go here I'm a bit lost, had to throw it in. Don't flame me Mods!

Nothing new world from those words. All old world.

[great white whaler]

I work in the automotive world the cheapest part is just that CHEAP don't fit properly ,premature ware out ,and poor performance

[rwm1273]

I work in the automotive world the cheapest part is just that CHEAP don't fit properly ,premature ware out ,and poor performance

Not the same in aviation. There are factory parts, and PMA (Parts Manufacturer Approval) parts, and is issued by the FAA. PMA parts are mainly for things like filters, lights, brakes, generators, and some aerodynamic fairings. All other parts must be either supplied by the manufacturer or made in accordance with approved data of the manufacturer. From my experience, PMA parts are often better then the factory parts, and last longer. However most aircraft parts have a life limit, and get replaced before their useful life is up. Aircraft are inspected regularly and must follow a specified inspection schedule for continued airworthiness. The inspection schedule is either as approved by the manufacturer, or as approved by the country's air ministry. This is often more stringent then the manufacturer's inspection criteria initially, but with experience of the user, this inspection interval can be extended, but some items can never be extended. Items that usually can't be extended are rotating items in the engines, main castings of the airframe and landing gear, and other structural components.

Commercial aircraft are highly regulated. The real threat is private aircraft. I do very little work on private aircraft due to the high liability risks. I know several colleagues who have been taken to court by Transport Canada over inspections they have done on private aircraft that subsequently crashed or had an incident. Nearly every incident was because of things the owner did after the inspection was carried out.

[great white whaler]

Not the same in aviation. There are factory parts, and PMA (Parts Manufacturer Approval) parts, and is issued by the FAA. PMA parts are mainly for things like filters, lights, brakes, generators, and some aerodynamic fairings. All other parts must be either supplied by the manufacturer or made in accordance with approved data of the manufacturer. From my experience, PMA parts are often better then the factory parts, and last longer. However most aircraft parts have a life limit, and get replaced before their useful life is up. Aircraft are inspected regularly and must follow a specified inspection schedule for continued airworthiness. The inspection schedule is either as approved by the manufacturer, or as approved by the country's air ministry. This is often more stringent then the manufacturer's inspection criteria initially, but with experience of the user, this inspection interval can be extended, but some items can never be extended. Items that usually can't be extended are rotating items in the engines, main castings of the airframe and landing gear, and other structural components.

Commercial aircraft are highly regulated. The real threat is private aircraft. I do very little work on private aircraft due to the high liability risks. I know several colleagues who have been taken to court by Transport Canada over inspections they have done on private aircraft that subsequently crashed or had an incident. Nearly every incident was because of things the owner did after the inspection was carried out.

keep up the good work