Now this is a CHIEF that knows His Job!

[Chris89lx]

THIS GUY DESERVES HIS OWN THREAD!!!


http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/400053_10151176008142085_1284205625_n.jpg

Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta :

Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.

'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:

'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'

He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.

'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'

He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.

He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.

Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.

In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.

The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.

There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.

Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.

Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'

'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'

He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'

Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.

'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.

Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.

Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'

The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.

'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'

'Blaming government? That time is over.'



Maybe someone should get him to talk to Attawapiskat Chief Theresa Spence.

[Rocky7]

I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to talk to him. Neither do a lot of other crybabies who prefer to use the race card than work or take responsibility.

I'd vote for him for an MP if I could and if he ran. The Harper government could learn a lot from this man.

Best part? The MSM would be apoplectic trying to figure out how to attack a conservative indian.:sHa_shakeshout:

[1899b]

Wow. How refreshing. He definitely goes against the grain of every aboriginal leader in this country crying the blues.........

[airbornedeerhunter]

Awesome, thats what FN need as a leader of the AFN, someone who is sick and tired of his own people who are bottom feeding oxygen thieves while at the same time a champion for those who aren't, and is proud of the fact that through taking responsibility and having goals that you can achieve greatness! The MSM needs to find this guy and get his opinion of Chief Cranky Pants and her BS "Hunger Strike".

[AxeMan]

He is the role model for change for sure. This man is worthy of much higher leadership in our country today. Here is a great interview with Chief Louie and he offers some greats insights and solutions for first nations and our government alike.

People supporting INM should look to this man instead of that corrupt criminal Chief Spence.

http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/8thfire/2012/01/chief-clarence-louie-1.html

[bush monkey]

There we go! A Chief that shows and speaks with pride. Need more people running the show like this!

[Alberta Bigbore]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

[vcmm]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

Heres a positive one for yah ABB.
That man should being running the whole chit show.Betcha he could fix alot of reserve problems.

[wwbirds]

Butterflies and rainbows?

Bitching and whining the same old rhetoric is always favored rather than giving credit for a job well done against all adversity.
Some things are steeped in tradition including complaining on both sides that is why nothing ever changes it is no ones fault and everyone elses problem.

[lone wolf]

Chief Clarence Louie earned my respect a long time ago, he is a straight-talking, no BS leader .............. there is a lot to learn from him period, regardless of your political persuasion is or ethnic background !! We need more like him in leadership roles, and yes (like Rocky) I would vote for him if I could.

[Sakoman]

Forget that he is native, there are alot of native and non native people that can learn from someone like that!

In todays society it is far easier to be negative than postive....

[AxeMan]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

Welcome to the thread, and the first one that is off topic and attempts to stir the pot. I you like I could post the pic of the kid stirring the pot for you. ;)

Chief Louie is positive all the way.

[TBD]

a great example for all first nations to aspire ...

TBD

[calebwest1987]

Great read, great quotes. The insight is really honest and taking what he had and making it what is now creates pride for any human. I have seen many "native pride" shirts hats etc, and that may pertain to older ideologies but I generally don't see a sense of pride when I see these people on the news with the idle no more front. Their reserves are in shambles,houses abandoned , their isn't much "pride of ownership" at all. It's not just a cultural thing, it's a human thing, the quickest way to ruin a man is to pay him to do nothing.
I hope that this mans insight into life will benefit more than just his band members and other natives. I've seen how many have no hope, no desire and no encouragement by their own, I hope this situation can make mankind better and teach respect and pride from what we are all able to accomplish
Just IMO

[doetracks]

I posted this on my FB before it made it here (courtesy of a friend). Truer words could not be spoken, and they apply to each and every one of us.

ABB I really wish you weren't taking these threads so personally. I understand, though.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Its an observation... nothing more. But my point is proven.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Butterflies and rainbows?

Bitching and whining the same old rhetoric is always favored rather than giving credit for a job well done against all adversity.
Some things are steeped in tradition including complaining on both sides that is why nothing ever changes it is no ones fault and everyone elses problem.

Lol... i know i know. Heh.

[Ken07AOVette]

I wonder is he is THE chief that gets $1,000,000.00 per year?

[Alberta Bigbore]

Welcome to the thread, and the first one that is off topic and attempts to stir the pot.

Oh.. heh. I just thought thats the way your guys did it. Was just trying to fit in. Lol




Edit* you guys..not your guys... joys of autocorrect on a smart phone. Ibtl.

[AxeMan]

Oh.. heh. I just thought thats the way your guys did it. Was just trying to fit in. Lol

My guys...I'm lost....but don't worry, ABB, you fit in. :) Well, kind of...:lol:

[Alberta Bigbore]

Typo... lol... you guys. Hahaha.. now im off to bbq chicken... behave axeman. Im watching you. Heh:)

[Rocky7]

People supporting INM should look to this man instead of that corrupt criminal Chief Spence.

People looking for good government should look to this man. That's bigger than INM - by quite a bit. He leads; he doesn't stand at the back of the room to see which way the wind is blowing. And he tells the truth.


Its an observation... nothing more. But my point is proven.

What do you think Chief Louie would think of your point?

[bubba 96]

I wonder is he is THE chief that gets $1,000,000.00 per year?

If he is I think he deserve it, I'd rather see impact than negativity, like some of our 1000000, politicians..

[KegRiver]

He is not alone. I know a couple of guys who have been proving him right, since long before any of this made it to the media.

Randy, the owner of RC North has been doing it for years and he won Native Businessman of the year for his businesses. I grew up with Randy.
Brad, owner of Creeman Logging has been doing it too.

There are others, far more then most would believe, I suspect.
But it seems that no one notices these guys. They only seem to notice the drunks and the protesters.

That's kinda like judging the non native population by what you encounter on skid row, and on the picket lines.

[HunterDave]

Cudos to Chief Louis! :happy0034:

There are a lot of Chiefs that do well for their Bands, maybe not quite as successful as Chief Louie, but overall the Bands are very well off. There are also a lot of Natives that do very well in life. Look at the way some people feel about Blacks in some parts of the US and now they have a Black President....HA! I don't buy into all of the stereotypes that I always hear because I know better.

PS. Does anyone have a link to this article?

[Sporty]

There are many successful bands in Canada and there are also many successful First Nations but it's easier to focus on the band apples than it is to give credit for the ones that do try to get it together.

Sawridge has done very well for themselves

http://www.nbdm.ca/blog/sawridges-40-year-legacy

First Nations Owned and Operated in Vancouver

http://www.khot-la-cha.com/

Aseniwuche Development Corporation in Grande Cache

http://www.aseniwuche.com/adc-main.html

First Nation owned lodge on Shuswap

http://www.quaaoutlodge.com/


Chief Spence is the poster child for everything negative in the Aboriginal community but she also isn't the spokes model for every Chief and band either.

[SmokinJoe]

If America can have a black president why can't Canada have a first nations Primeminister.

He's right, show up on time (ahead of time) and work your ass off. Nobody's gonna give you anything but a bad habit, don't worry about anyone but your self.

As a first nations man I personally can't stand the idle no more bowel movement. Personally I have always wanted transparency in my local government, and pay taxes, and rent my house not located on reserve.

But that's my rant for the day, i gotta get my work clothes ready, back to the rig Wednesday Nobody ever drowned in his own sweat

[Dacotensis]

I like the article.
There, will that help us get to page 2?:)

Mom and Dad were stationed in Fort Chip in the late 60's.
Everything I heard from them when groing up was positive about the culture they were immersed in.
Later in life, Mom became a teacher and worked outside of Edmonton on a reserve up hwy 43. I heard some good stuff, even visited and did a few presentations for the community there myself.
About 90% of the stuff I heard from Mom was not good.
Somewhere along the way, something went to Sh$2.
Honestly, I think parenting of youts became a hardship, "like omg, you mean I have to be a parent and discipline my child". Ya, that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

I would shake Chief Louis hand. No problem and offer him my support for how he leads.
I'm sure there are a few companies who would like to have him at the helm.

[Rocky7]

There are many successful bands in Canada and there are also many successful First Nations but it's easier to focus on the band apples than it is to give credit for the ones that do try to get it together.

The media does not look for, or focus on, feel-good stories. Period. Why should that be any different for indians? When is the last time you read a story about some mayor or MLA or MP that was doing a real good job? Pretty well never. There was a feel-good positive story on Sun about Premier Wall but that's about all I can recall in recent times.

When was the last time you read a positive story about a politician with a conservative message? Same answer.

It's no different for this man. Brown skin has nothing to do with that.

A person who looks for racism will find it. Those type of people are just who Chief Spence needs.

Anybody posting a claim - or even a hint - that they think the membership of AO is mostly, or largely, racist needs to take a long, hard look in a mirror and see who's looking back.

Chief Spence is the poster child for everything negative in the Aboriginal community but she also isn't the spokes model for every Chief and band either.

That's exactly the poster child she should be. She is a very good example of everything that is wrong.

I've not heard anyone - here or anywhere else - say that she is the spokesman for every Chief and band. Did you hear somebody say that?

[Dacotensis]

He's right, show up on time (ahead of time) and work your ass off. Nobody's gonna give you anything but a bad habit, don't worry about anyone but your self.

A goose shooting partner of mine and I have a saying.

"If you are early, you're on time, If you're on time you're late, and if you're late....don't bother comming".
I kind of try to apply that to a few things in life.

Yes we have left the gas station after waiting for a 3rd and 4th shooter.
5 minutes is 5 minutes:budo:

[bubba 96]

If America can have a black president why can't Canada have a first nations Primeminister.

He's right, show up on time (ahead of time) and work your ass off. Nobody's gonna give you anything but a bad habit, don't worry about anyone but your self.

As a first nations man I personally can't stand the idle no more bowel movement. Personally I have always wanted transparency in my local government, and pay taxes, and rent my house not located on reserve.

But that's my rant for the day, i gotta get my work clothes ready, back to the rig Wednesday Nobody ever drowned in his own sweat


Idmbm, that is awsome...

[Walleyes]

This man in an inspiration to all people not just his own, we can all learn from men like this. If be ran on the proper platform I would vote for a man like this in a heartbeat.

Well done Sir..

[rwm1273]

I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to talk to him. Neither do a lot of other crybabies who prefer to use the race card than work or take responsibility.

I'd vote for him for an MP if I could and if he ran. The Harper government could learn a lot from this man.

Best part? The MSM would be apoplectic trying to figure out how to attack a conservative indian.:sHa_shakeshout:

Why stop at MP? I would vote for him to be Prime Minister. Round up all the lazy people and ship them to a war zone? Great idea.

[Walleyes]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

And you are wrong on this ABB people enjoy success stories regardless of whom they involve.. I guarantee you there is not one person on here that would not love to sit hand in hand with our native brethren and forget this whole mess and someday just be people together.. We all would love nothing more if all our native friends were to join this man and his vision not only native people but all free loaders in this country there are many of all races that can take a lesson from this man. So far you have the only negative post in it,, well done..

[bobalong]

He is not alone. I know a couple of guys who have been proving him right, since long before any of this made it to the media.

Randy, the owner of RC North has been doing it for years and he won Native Businessman of the year for his businesses. I grew up with Randy.
Brad, owner of Creeman Logging has been doing it too.

There are others, far more then most would believe, I suspect.
But it seems that no one notices these guys. They only seem to notice the drunks and the protesters.

That's kinda like judging the non native population by what you encounter on skid row, and on the picket lines.

"And on the picket lines", another negative.......What does this have to do with a chief that is doing an excellent job?????

[Sporty]

Anybody posting a claim - or even a hint - that they think the membership of AO is mostly, or largely, racist needs to take a long, hard look in a mirror and see who's looking back.



I don't recall pointing fingers at the membership of AO at all in my post.

Back OT, Oysoyos NK’MIP Cellars is producing wines that are standing up to some of the best wines coming out of Napa Valley. Chief Louie is definitely an inspiration

[Kurt505]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

Nice, it's been an hour and it has hit two pages.

Fact is, people are not as prejudice as some would like to believe. Maybe they are just fed up with soooooo much tax dollars being wasted so foolishly but feel helpless as to being able to change it. Voicing their opinion on a forum may be the only way to express how they feel in hopes a real change can be made. Maybe it's not a hate of the people which some may believe, but rather the system that spawns the sloth and false sence of entitlement.

[Lefty-Canuck]

This man in an inspiration to all people not just his own, we can all learn from men like this. If be ran on the proper platform I would vote for a man like this in a heartbeat.

Well done Sir..

X2....well said....this man rose above the status quo he was likely brought up to fit into and became a great man with his own thoughts/ideas....not those of society or repressed by the stereotype he was told to adhere to.

LC

[skaha57]

Chieft Louie is an inspiration to all of us that live in this area. He has taken two nickels and many acres of dead rock fillled land and turned them into some of the best resorts, golf course's , camp ground, and wine cellar that you can find in the south okanagan. He is truly a man of his words, having done business with him over many years he is a great business man and a friend. I only wish that the other native americans could follow in this man's footsteps even for a month, they would truly learn that handouts are not the way of the world- you want something then bloody well work for it, set your goals high and work and work until you get them. I wish him and the Osoyoos Indian Band all the sucess in there future projects.

[rwm1273]

Nice, it's been an hour and it has hit two pages.

Fact is, people are not as prejudice as some would like to believe. Maybe they are just fed up with soooooo much tax dollars being wasted so foolishly but feel helpless as to being able to change it. Voicing their opinion on a forum may be the only way to express how they feel in hopes a real change can be made. Maybe it's not a hate of the people which some may believe, but rather the system that spawns the sloth and false sence of entitlement.

Yup, that is exactly how I feel.

I would defend the Native way of life to hunt and fish to my death, as that is what my ancestors offered the natives. (Suposedly Sir John A was a relative on my grandmother's side) but I have no sympathy for those who do not look after themselves. I do not believe in handouts for nothing. Be productive, and I would give you the shirt off my back if you needed it.

But many like Spence want my shirt, my boots, and my car, and house, and when they destroy them by not taking care of them, it is my fault for giving them a bad product. This is what I am tired of. And it sounds like Chief Louie is too. I posted about Chief Louie in another thread, and in that post, I quoted him saying he has only gone to one Native Chief meeting, and did not expect to go to any more. He clearly does not need the support of the other Native leaders to do the right thing for his people.

[Alberta Bigbore]

And you are wrong on this ABB people enjoy success stories regardless of whom they involve.. I guarantee you there is not one person on here that would not love to sit hand in hand with our native brethren and forget this whole mess and someday just be people together.. We all would love nothing more if all our native friends were to join this man and his vision not only native people but all free loaders in this country there are many of all races that can take a lesson from this man. So far you have the only negative post in it,, well done..

Just following the lead.


Besides the fact... the whole point was about topic attention...and what gets attention.

Had the title of this thread....included ".....slaughtered 8 moose in two days" . It would have had more views .

Your right... negative.. its my turn....everyone else gets a turn. :)

[Alberta Bigbore]

Nice, it's been an hour and it has hit two pages.



Yes.. since my post. Lol

[Walleyes]

Just following the lead.


Besides the fact... the whole point was about topic attention...and what gets attention.

Had the title of this thread....included ".....slaughtered 8 moose in two days" . It would have had more views .

Your right... negative.. its my turn....everyone else gets a turn. :)

And still nothing positive to contribute to it ??

Easier to play the victim I guess..

[saltwater cowboy]

Maybe I see the world a little bit different but I don't see Chief Louie as a native who did well in this modern world but an individual who did well who happens to be of native descent.
I hope when people talk of me they don't say hey that guy who's great great grandparents came from England did good, rather that guy did good.
He is an inspiration to us all, not just natives. And I would vote for a man of this standing as a leader in any situation.

[Alberta Bigbore]

And still nothing positive to contribute it it ??

Is that all you have?



But ill bite what your trolling. Yes.. this guy could teach many about handling affairs. There.. thats positive. Happy now? If not, as they say in the patch...Oil Well. ....as my brother says. :)

[bigshell]

Chief Louie is a wise buisnessman,I think many politicians and buisness people could learn alot from him.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Good edit walleyes. I applaude you.

[bush monkey]

Maybe I see the world a little bit different but I don't see Chief Louie as a native who did well in this modern world but an individual who did well who happens to be of native descent.
I hope when people talk of me they don't say hey that guy who's great great grandparents came from England did good, rather that guy did good.
He is an inspiration to us all, not just natives. And I would vote for a man of this standing as a leader in any situation.

I get what you are saying, but I think it is in context as there is a lot of discussion with all that has gone on. Cheif Loise is a prime example of what a leader should be as you have stated as well.

[rembo]

That's a good read even if it's 6 years old.

I wonder where Chief Louis is today and what his reaction to the current state of affairs would be?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/indian-time-doesnt-cut-it-for-innovative-chief-with-on-the-edge-humour/article1103739/

[rwm1273]

One of the issues some of the Native Chiefs complain about is unemployment on their reserves. Why don't they set up telecenters? Instead of our customer service calls going to India where we speak to Indians, why not set them up on these northern reserves, and we can speak to local Indians? It would not matter where the reserve is, and they can employ the who band if they wanted to.

[moosehead7]

[QUOTE=Sporty;1799291]There are many successful bands in Canada and there are also many successful First Nations but it's easier to focus on the band apples than it is to give credit for the ones that do try to get it together.

Sawridge has done very well for themselves

http://www.nbdm.ca/blog/sawridges-40-year-legacy

First Nations Owned and Operated in Vancouver

http://www.khot-la-cha.com/

Aseniwuche Development Corporation in Grande Cache

http://www.aseniwuche.com/adc-main.html

First Nation owned lodge on Shuswap

http://www.quaaoutlodge.com/


Chief Spence is the poster child for everything negative in the Aboriginal community but she also isn't the spokes model for every Chief and band either.[/QUO

Well thats the ABSOLETE least the first nations bands could do with getting government money funded, is a least do well with it. Give me some money from your taxes and i will do good things with it and then expect you to praise me for it. No they should at least spend it properly.:)

[Walleyes]

Good edit walleyes. I applaude you.

:love0025:

[Sporty]

[quote]

Well thats the ABSOLETE least the first nations bands could do with getting government money funded, is a least do well with it. Give me some money from your taxes and i will do good things with it and then expect you to praise me for it. No they should at least spend it properly.:)

Just can't find a positive eh?

Did you know because of the Indian Act, Native owned business has to go through many hoops with AADNC? You know, Indian Affairs ran by non Aboriginals? Click on the Sawridge link and it will give you some history of what it took to start up reserve owned businesses. What makes you think it all comes from taxpayer's monies?

[moosehead7]

[QUOTE=moosehead7;1799465]

Just can't find a positive eh?

Did you know because of the Indian Act, Native owned business has to go through many hoops with AADNC? You know, Indian Affairs ran by non Aboriginals? Click on the Sawridge link and it will give you some history of what it took to start up reserve owned businesses.

Sporty im not being negative, just truthful about how they should spend government money wise and not waste it.

[Alberta Bigbore]

:love0025:

LOL. Love u too. i know im here , ( and I quote you somewhere else ) "purely for the entertainment"

[Rocky7]

I don't recall pointing fingers at the membership of AO at all in my post.

Neither do I. It was not your comment I had in mind.

Yes.. since my post. Lol

Get over yourself. You see what was not there.

[Rocky7]

One of the issues some of the Native Chiefs complain about is unemployment on their reserves. Why don't they set up telecenters? Instead of our customer service calls going to India where we speak to Indians, why not set them up on these northern reserves, and we can speak to local Indians? It would not matter where the reserve is, and they can employ the who band if they wanted to.

That's not how the victim game is played, rwm1273.....not by either side, actually.

But I'll say this - even a northern accent would be easier to follow than a couple of the "help" people I've spoken to in Calcutta.:)

[bear-scat]

Sounds like a great leader, got my respect and vote from what I've heard so far....just like everyone else here , he hates LAZY WHINERS LOOKING FOR HANDOUTS !!!

[Kurt505]

There are many successful bands in Canada and there are also many successful First Nations but it's easier to focus on the band apples than it is to give credit for the ones that do try to get it together.

Sawridge has done very well for themselves

http://www.nbdm.ca/blog/sawridges-40-year-legacy

First Nations Owned and Operated in Vancouver

http://www.khot-la-cha.com/

Aseniwuche Development Corporation in Grande Cache

http://www.aseniwuche.com/adc-main.html

First Nation owned lodge on Shuswap

http://www.quaaoutlodge.com/


Chief Spence is the poster child for everything negative in the Aboriginal community but she also isn't the spokes model for every Chief and band either.


Spence is being held as an example because she's the useless tit that started this whole thing.

I agree that there are good chiefs out there, I have personally know a couple of them. As a matter of fact I literally hitch hiked a ride, ran out on an airstrip apron waving my arms, with Walter Twinn in his amphibious plane. He was good friends with the owner of the fly-in fishing lodge I guided at, and was more than happy to fly me out to the lodge for free, even had a couple beers at 3000 feet with him.

There is misunderstanding on both sides here. I have a problem with lazy freeloaders, and people who take advantage of a broken system, regardless of race, religion or creed. If I voice how I feel on certain subjects, I am sometimes viewed as racist by the people who are guilty of being the abuser, trust me, I am in no way a racist, but there are people who love to play the race card.

[wwbirds]

Moosehead7
Well thats the ABSOLETE least the first nations bands could do with getting government money funded, is a least do well with it. Give me some money from your taxes and i will do good things with it and then expect you to praise me for it. No they should at least spend it properly.

Maybe it is a reading comprehension issue but I read all those stories and found one chief had to give personal guarantees and have trustees issue payments for development. See the other story the band sought out financial independance because they had no ongoing financial support.

How do you rationalize these things were even remotely connected to tax dollars.:snapoutofit:

[Sporty]

Spence is being held as an example because she's the useless tit that started this whole thing.

I agree that there are good chiefs out there, I have personally know a couple of them. As a matter of fact I literally hitch hiked a ride, ran out on an airstrip apron waving my arms, with Walter Twinn in his amphibious plane. He was good friends with the owner of the fly-in fishing lodge I guided at, and was more than happy to fly me out to the lodge for free, even had a couple beers at 3000 feet with him.

There is misunderstanding on both sides here. I have a problem with lazy freeloaders, and people who take advantage of a broken system, regardless of race, religion or creed. If I voice how I feel on certain subjects, I am sometimes viewed as racist by the people who are guilty of being the abuser, trust me, I am in no way a racist, but there are people who love to play the race card.

The saddest part of all this is she did not start INM, she high jacked it. The whole movement started out as something else then suddenly she starts her bogus hunger strike, supposedly for the "people" and many of them fell for it. The whole intent has been lost which was opposing Bill C-45 in which there were very valid concerns, not just for FN's but for all Canadians. Now people are distracted by Spence and Harper pushes this bill through. I don't understand why so many of those participating in the INM have fallen for Spences's scam, it makes me not only angry but sad at the same time.

At any rate, this thread was off to a great start, speaking of the positives out there for Aboriginals, we have enough threads dedicated to Spence and her scam.

Back to the OT, Osoyoos Cellars have some great ice wine, people should give it a try ;)

[Alberta Bigbore]

Get over yourself. You see what was not there.

kettle ...meet pot... in ooooh so many other discussions and topics.

[moosehead7]

Maybe it is a reading comprehension issue but I read all those stories and found one chief had to give personal guarantees and have trustees issue payments for development. See the other story the band sought out financial independance because they had no ongoing financial support.

How do you rationalize these things were even remotely connected to tax dollars.:snapoutofit:

WOW a couple of stories, then why is there any money being handed out to ANY reserves, oh and if you havent noticed i hate paying with TAX DOLLARS for the money to be wasted. PERIOD.

[Sundancefisher]

Make Louie the Liberal Party of Canada Leader and the Liberals may have a chance. Tough speaking, no nonsense politician. Never heard of it till now.

[stinkynuts]

I worked up in Wabisca for 1.5 years there is a big differance bettween Natives and Indians and thats what this Chief is getting at here you can eather get off your butt and work hard for your self and make a living or just **** and moan all day and try to get other pepole to pay your way no matter the race .

[Walleyes]

WOW a couple of stories, then why is there any money being handed out to ANY reserves, oh and if you havent noticed i hate paying with TAX DOLLARS for the money to be wasted. PERIOD.

Moosehead,, there are a couple other threads full of venting,, go join in. This thread is on accomplishments we would like to keep it there..

[Sporty]

Moosehead,, there are a couple other threads full of venting,, go join in. This thread is on accomplishments we would like to keep it there..

:shake2:

[Kurt505]

The saddest part of all this is she did not start INM, she high jacked it. The whole movement started out as something else then suddenly she starts her bogus hunger strike, supposedly for the "people" and many of them fell for it. The whole intent has been lost which was opposing Bill C-45 in which there were very valid concerns, not just for FN's but for all Canadians. Now people are distracted by Spence and Harper pushes this bill through. I don't understand why so many of those participating in the INM have fallen for Spences's scam, it makes me not only angry but sad at the same time.

At any rate, this thread was off to a great start, speaking of the positives out there for Aboriginals, we have enough threads dedicated to Spence and her scam.

Back to the OT, Osoyoos Cellars have some great ice wine, people should give it a try ;)

I wasn't talking about starting INM, I was referring to the circus act that has all the clowns coming out.

[AxeMan]

The saddest part of all this is she did not start INM, she high jacked it. The whole movement started out as something else then suddenly she starts her bogus hunger strike, supposedly for the "people" and many of them fell for it. The whole intent has been lost which was opposing Bill C-45 in which there were very valid concerns, not just for FN's but for all Canadians. Now people are distracted by Spence and Harper pushes this bill through. I don't understand why so many of those participating in the INM have fallen for Spences's scam, it makes me not only angry but sad at the same time.

At any rate, this thread was off to a great start, speaking of the positives out there for Aboriginals, we have enough threads dedicated to Spence and her scam.

Back to the OT, Osoyoos Cellars have some great ice wine, people should give it a try ;)

Excellent post, Sporty. INM was hijacked and now its original message may be lost due to Chief Spence's irrational actions, especially with all her sympathisers now. With a positive backer such as Chief Louie and others, INM could have been much more positive with a protect the environment theme which much of the issue with bill C-45 was about.

Chief Louie did make a few public comments about INM but I think he is wisely distancing himself from it now that Chief Spence circus is on.

[Rocky7]

Maybe it is a reading comprehension issue but I read all those stories and found one chief had to give personal guarantees and have trustees issue payments for development.

It isn't easy for a band to raise money - or for an indian to get a loan. Reserve land, and things located on a reserve, are either poor collateral or no collateral at all.

For all the criticism levelled at the U.S. - some very deserved - about their history with native tribes, they did not take such paternalistic approach. The Blackfeet in Montana, for instance, own quite a bit of land. Own it. We could learn a thing or two looking south of the border, IMO.

[Rocky7]

Moosehead,, there are a couple other threads full of venting,, go join in. This thread is on accomplishments we would like to keep it there..

Maybe, but what he said is long overdue and there's a pressure built up. Both sides have to quit doing the Victim Dance.

Your point is valid, though.

I wish Louie would run for Parliament. There's a shortage of leaders. He'd sit one-two years as an MP and then be in Cabinet (yes, because he's brown..oh, well). It makes me wonder, though, what his vision could be with some experience in national and international affairs. He tells the truth and, for me, that is almost everything. The rest can be learned. I think it's that way with a lot of voters, too.

[JohninAB]

Rocky7, natives cannot use the homes nor the land within a reserve for collateral because they do not own it. The land is held in trust by the federal government. If the band wants to get into a resort development with others on reserve land they first must get an agreement with the federal government so they can then get an agreement with the third party. Now is that even remotely right?

Chief Louie's speech is old but is a good one.

Nice to see a positive post on here about natives as the other ones are filled with misinformation put forth by those who do not know or understand how INAC and reserves function.

[CanuckShooter]

Chief Louie is a wise buisnessman,I think many politicians and buisness people could learn alot from him.


A lot of business people would make trillions if they ran a business that paid no income tax, no sales tax, no GST tax, no tax on energy or motor fuels taxes..and even more money could be made if your employees were also exempt from all these oppressive taxes. EI, CPP etc....more status Indians should be getting into this business, it's a licence to print money.

[wwbirds]

Reserve land is federal land and the houses belong to the band so not only do the residents not maintain them apparently neither does the band. Nothing on reserve can be used as collateral and even if it was it is exempt from seizure so no one would take it. (banks)
Oddly enough I find all these threads positive because discussion is taking place for both sides to understand the others issues and problems. the so called "venting thread" (what do natives really want) at post 102 I put up another of Chief Louies discussions about "Indian time" and work ethics in Ft McMurray. Dont think anyone clicked on the link as no one commented on Louie being a positive role model for natives (or whites) on that thread.
thanks for keeping it civil.

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/59141-my-new-native-hero-chief.html

[fishunter327]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtjTig0TDFk


Here is another FN person who has good things to say.Calvin Helin ,I had the pleasure of listening to him speak

[JohninAB]

Savings on fuel are not as big as you would think. 8 or 9 cents. Cigarettes are way cheaper, half price almost.

[TBark]

I think Bigshell has it right.
Chief Louie did not wave a magic wand to make his band successful, he is a good businessman, he seems to see the whole picture regardless of a bigger bottom line and native benefits.
And he likely motivated his people like no other band leader. Try holding a position in the Osoyoose band and not doing your job properly, ha.
My Father met him years ago and he was well respected then too.
All bands need educated business people to handle their dealings, not white, but native, this may be happening now but does not seem to be in most cases.

TBark

[HunterDave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtjTig0TDFk

Here is another FN person who has good things to say.Calvin Helin ,I had the pleasure of listening to him speak

Thanks for the link.

[CanuckShooter]

Now as a Metis...and an 'Indian' under the Indian Act....does that mean my income will be tax free like this Chief Louie fellow? I'm not doing bad now, but with tax free status I could really build a bankroll...;-).

How soon everyone forgets all the free handouts he is collecting because he says what you want to hear? :-) This is a fascinating study in human nature don't you think?

[Walleyes]

A lot of business people would make trillions if they ran a business that paid no income tax, no sales tax, no GST tax, no tax on energy or motor fuels taxes..and even more money could be made if your employees were also exempt from all these oppressive taxes. EI, CPP etc....more status Indians should be getting into this business, it's a licence to print money.

None of that bothers me as long as they are self sufficient. It's the long term drag on tax dollars that scares the heck out of me. I have no problem helping any human out as long as it does that,, help them out and get going. It's when nothing is done with the money and its squandered over and over that upsets me. Hey,, I am sure everyone knows these people need help, thats a give me, but,, not a hand out they need help. I do blame our politicians for this mess as much as anybody, no,, they are to blame but it's time for a change. It's time people like this man are heard and listened to. Why couldn't he be made into the grand chief and have sweeping changes to the system.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Now as a Metis...and an 'Indian' under the Indian Act....does that mean my income will be tax free like this Chief Louie fellow? I'm not doing bad now, but with tax free status I could really build a bankroll...;-).

How soon everyone forgets all the free handouts he is collecting because he says what you want to hear? :-) This is a fascinating study in human nature don't you think?

Sure go move to his reserve and see how he looks after you....I am guessing you will still have to work :)

LC

[CanuckShooter]

Savings on fuel are not as big as you would think. 8 or 9 cents. Cigarettes are way cheaper, half price almost.

You can google how much tax is added to each liter of fuel....I guarantee it's more than 9 cents....in BC there is almost that much in carbon tax alone!!

[CanuckShooter]

None of that bothers me as long as they are self sufficient. It's the long term drag on tax dollars that scares the heck out of me. I have no problem helping any human out as long as it does that,, help them out and get going. It's when nothing is done with the money and its squandered over and over that upsets me. Hey,, I am sure everyone knows these people need help, thats a give me, but,, not a hand out they need help. I do blame our politicians for this mess as much as anybody, no,, they are to blame but it's time for a change. It's time people like this man are heard and listened to. Why couldn't he be made into the grand chief and have sweeping changes to the system.


So you have no problem with 600,000 new Indians not having to pay taxes anymore.....LOL.....????

[CanuckShooter]

Sure go move to his reserve and see how he looks after you....I am guessing you will still have to work :)

LC


I like work...it's paying all those taxes I don't like!!! I'd be a great employee and I could retire earlier too! Some nice homes on band land too.

[wwbirds]

Yeah John the excise tax is only 8 cents but then you have many other federal and provincial taxes.
Sorry Canuck only income earned on the reserve by a status native is exempt from tax. No such thing for metis,.........yet

[Rocky7]

Chief Louie's speech is old but is a good one.

Nice to see a positive post on here about natives as the other ones are filled with misinformation put forth by those who do not know or understand how INAC and reserves function.

Chief Louie has been spoken of highly on this forum many times.

[Sporty]

I believe that Osoyoos is self governing, I could be wrong about this, someone might know more but my understanding is that because they are self governing, they rely less on federal monies and and are self sufficient. Osoyoos also has their own taxation system, not sure what of that is paid to federal taxes if any but it has paved the way for them to be self suffient.

They are also contributing to Canadian and the local economy in the way of jobs, investments etc. I did read somewhere that some bands in Canada have waived their tax exempt status for exchange for self governance.

[Sporty]

Most First Nations who are employed pay taxes. If this supreme court ruling goes through, the same Aboriginals, Metis, First Nations who have been employed and paying taxes are still going to continue paying taxes.

I'd say this thread has been officially derailed

[Lefty-Canuck]

I'd say this thread has been officially derailed

Yes all good things come to an end....

LC

[CanuckShooter]

Yeah John the excise tax is only 8 cents but then you have many other federal and provincial taxes.
Sorry Canuck only income earned on the reserve by a status native is exempt from tax. No such thing for metis,.........yet

I just find this thread humorous when you recall all the comments on the other native related threads. ;-). If all native/bands were like the Osoyoos and making millions tax free you'd really hear some howling.

[Sporty]

Yes all good things come to an end....

LC


Oh well, it was fun while it lasted, off to get my books ready for tax time and dream about Cuban cigars!

[Rocky7]

I believe that Osoyoos is self governing, I could be wrong about this, someone might know more but my understanding is that because they are self governing, they rely less on federal monies and and self sufficient......I did read somewhere that some bands in Canada have waived their tax exempt status for exchange for self governance.

Most bands are "self-governing", according to official jingo anyway. It is not all that it seems.

That last sentence rings no bells with me. Bands in Canada began to move toward "self-government" in the 70's. I never heard of any of them surrendering their tax-free status. Perhaps someone else knows about that?

Anyway, I think this is a relevant story to the discussion going on here. It's about the Lumbee Tribe in the U.S. They were overlooked by the U.S. federal government and never got all that "help" and free stuff. Here's what happened over the last 150 years:

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2011/04/27/government_creates_poverty/page/full/

Blame doesn't matter. I think Louie's success teaches us that. We just need to get on with doing thing differently.

[Walleyes]

Yes all good things come to an end....

LC

To bad I was enjoying it.. I know it may not come across as such sometimes but I do have a deep pation for native people. My father had native people in his sawmills long before it was,, the thing to do they were just men and I was raised the same. My father was a Christian man and was one of the first men to try and bring the true gospel,, not religion but the gospel to native people, he had a true compassion for these people. I was raised between two native populations in northern Alberta, for all intensive purposes I was raised native, I have spent more time in the woods with natives than well,, than most natives lol. I truly love to see these people returned to the proud people they once were. But it's something they have to do themselves,, no one can do it for them, it's up to them..

I'm done close it if you want..

[Pixel Shooter]

Actually I wouldnt recommend it :thinking-006:

Moosehead,, there are a couple other threads full of venting,, go join in. This thread is on accomplishments we would like to keep it there..

[Sporty]

Most bands are "self-governing", according to official jingo anyway. It is not all that it seems.

That last sentence rings no bells with me. Bands in Canada began to move toward "self-government" in the 70's. I never heard of any of them surrendering their tax-free status. Perhaps someone else knows about that?

Anyway, I think this is a relevant story to the discussion going on here. It's about the Lumbee Tribe in the U.S. They were overlooked by the U.S. federal government and never got all that "help" and free stuff. Here's what happened over the last 150 years:

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2011/04/27/government_creates_poverty/page/full/

Blame doesn't matter. I think Louie's success teaches us that. We just need to get on with doing thing differently.


Here in the Yukon all Self-Governing First Nations have exchanged tax exemption for other benefits in the Final Agreements. So 11 of the 14 First Nations and their Citizens are no longer tax exempt and pay taxes like any other Canadian.

http://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/blogs/fni/common_myths_about_first_nations_2_tax_exemptions



Differences between Self-Governing First Nations and Indian Act Bands

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100028429/1100100028430

BC Treaty Commission

http://www.bctreaty.net/files/issues_selfgovern.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okanagan_Nation_Alliance

Poking holes in First Nations taxation mythology

http://rabble.ca/news/2011/12/poking-holes-first-nations-taxation-mythology

[blacknorthernjk]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

Trying to figure out if you posted this for an intended purpose or not...inflection and tone are difficult to read in print...I should think if this is your honest observation it is tainted with prejudice. Yes, this is my first comment on any of these threads and it was yours that dragged it out. Not worth anymore of my time I suppose, go figure given the topic.

[Rocky7]

Here in the Yukon all Self-Governing First Nations have exchanged tax exemption for other benefits in the Final Agreements. So 11 of the 14 First Nations and their Citizens are no longer tax exempt and pay taxes like any other Canadian.

http://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/blogs/fni/common_myths_about_first_nations_2_tax_exemptions

Thank you, I will read up on that when I have time.

I was in the Yukon this summer. If I was a younger man, I would not have returned.

IMO, it was a good decision to pay taxes. Good for them, I mean. Maybe they can one day they can even help the rest of us keep a lid on it.:)

[gatesniffer]

There was an article a couple of yrs ago on this man in the Macleans magazine. He stated the same thing as he did in Ft. Mac. The article also did go on to say, that he is shunned and or ignored by many bands for his views and attitude. He does not get invited to the Annual Native convention where they vote for Grand Chief either. I wonder why?

[skaha57]

Chieft Louie is an inspiration to all of us that live in this area. He has taken two nickels and many acres of dead rock fillled land and turned them into some of the best resorts, golf course's , camp ground, and wine cellar that you can find in the south okanagan. He is truly a man of his words, having done business with him over many years he is a great business man and a friend. I only wish that the other native americans could follow in this man's footsteps even for a month, they would truly learn that handouts are not the way of the world- you want something then bloody well work for it, set your goals high and work and work until you get them. I wish him and the Osoyoos Indian Band all the sucess in there future projects.

[Sporty]

The poking holes in First Nations tax is a good read as well. Maybe people would feel less bitter about their tax dollars if they understood how the system works and the actual numbers of FN paying taxes. There is no doubt that there needs to be change in the Aboriginal community but there also needs to be a shift in non Aboriginal Canadians thought process as well. The stereo typing needs to stop, I'm not pointing any fingers here but just as the treaties are outdated, so Are many people's views about FN.

[SmokinJoe]

There's all kinds of mini solutions to small problems in the big picture. but the big picture is first nation governments needs to be accountable for their actions. First nations are mini 3rd world country's within our nation. But in order to put any mechanisms in place for the betterment of Canada's financial position we must first ensure money and effort is not wasted.

As both a tax payer and a supposed beneficiary of these agrements I see nothing come my way, I pay for my training out of my own pocket, and work my ass of on a rig to live comfortable. Until reservation leadership can collectively help us help them nothing should change. Having successful native communities helps the population as a whole and eliminates some racism or hard feelings.

I uses to manage the local band ranch, I was forced out because I was too honest, I refuses to cut cheques for politicians, and fired people for not showing up, and was told I was harsh because I made people work hard when I was there. In the 3 years I was there it went from a subsidizes program to a program that employed 15 members, and saw revinew. Revinew was also a problem because the band council wanted it, refused to let me invest it back in the business. How stupid is that?

My point is native people all want change but have a hard time accepting it. Thank you to the Feds for stepping in to make solutions to the problem. All the other mechanisms will fall into place once what money does go to first nations is not wasted. It's for the betterment of our great nation.

[huntingd]

Haha.. comedy!!! A positive native thread.... and it gets little views and minimal posts.......


Post up a negative one.... it hits two pages within an hour. LoL


Says alot

Proof that natives can't be satisfied. After all the negative threads somebody starts one on a native success story and this is the response.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Im 3/4 white.. hows that for a wrench thrown in there.

[HunterDave]

Proof that natives can't be satisfied. After all the negative threads somebody starts one on a native success story and this is the response.

At the time of ABB's post that you quoted there was very little interest in this thread.....check the times of the posts at the start of the thread. The thread was posted 7 hours ago and after only a handful of posts ABB posted 5 hours ago. It wasn't until after he posted that anyone showed any interest......including you.

[Alberta Bigbore]

At the time of ABB's post that you quoted there was very little interest in this thread.....check the times of the posts at the start of the thread. The thread was posted 7 hours ago and after only a handful of posts ABB posted 5 hours ago. It wasn't until after he posted that anyone showed any interest......including you.

No need to defend.. but thanks. Its an internet forum.

[Kanonfodder]

I remember the great early success the Sawridge band had with Spirit Water bottled water, Sen Walter Twinn had some good business acumen and was a terrific guy to talk to, was also a HUGE boxing fan.

[huntingd]

At the time of ABB's post that you quoted there was very little interest in this thread.....check the times of the posts at the start of the thread. The thread was posted 7 hours ago and after only a handful of posts ABB posted 5 hours ago. It wasn't until after he posted that anyone showed any interest......including you.

That would be false. I meant no disrespect to ABB. I have been following this thread and all the others on the current native situation with interest. Yes even before his post. I'm not going to get into a famous AO mudslinging match here. I noticed something and expressed my opinion on it. If it had been open a day or so I would agree. 7 or 8 hours I don't agree. ABB and canuck shooter have had some great points in other threads and I have learned from them. I don't think this point qualifies.

[bigshell]

A lot of business people would make trillions if they ran a business that paid no income tax, no sales tax, no GST tax, no tax on energy or motor fuels taxes..and even more money could be made if your employees were also exempt from all these oppressive taxes. EI, CPP etc....more status Indians should be getting into this business, it's a licence to print money.

True enuff,but I still think he's a man of vision though.He sees far down the road invests in all the right projects for that area that paying off pretty good for them.

[JohninAB]

You can google how much tax is added to each liter of fuel....I guarantee it's more than 9 cents....in BC there is almost that much in carbon tax alone!!

My ex was first nations, had the white tax free and status card, filled up at a few reserves across Alberta and Sask. Savings were not that great.

[CanuckShooter]

True enuff,but I still think he's a man of vision though.He sees far down the road invests in all the right projects for that area that paying off pretty good for them.

I think so too, my comments were more about making a point about the difference in attitudes when Chief Louie comes up....all the complaints about living tax free etc are forgotten.....an interesting study in human nature!!

A lot of the bands could learn from their success. :-)

[Rocky7]

I think so too, my comments were more about making a point about the difference in attitudes when Chief Louie comes up...:sign0161:

There's all kinds of mini solutions to small problems in the big picture. but the big picture is first nation governments needs to be accountable for their actions. First nations are mini 3rd world country's within our nation....

I uses to manage the local band ranch, I was forced out because I was too honest, I refuses to cut cheques for politicians, and fired people for not showing up, and was told I was harsh because I made people work hard when I was there. In the 3 years I was there it went from a subsidizes program to a program that employed 15 members, and saw revinew. Revinew was also a problem because the band council wanted it, refused to let me invest it back in the business. How stupid is that?

Stories like yours need to come out into the light. Part of what stops that is a lot of people in the white, or near-white, community who cry racism at every opportunity. There is racism afoot, alright, but not the way we are told about.

My point is native people all want change but have a hard time accepting it.

That first part is not true and I guess you know it. Some like it just fine the way it is. Why wouldn't they?

Yeah, there needs to be some growing pains. For sure it will be a hard time for some.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I think so too, my comments were more about making a point about the difference in attitudes when Chief Louie comes up....all the complaints about living tax free etc are forgotten.....an interesting study in human nature!!

A lot of the bands could learn from their success. :-)

I don't think it is interesting studay in human nature at all...the guy works hard and has a lot to show for it. If he wasn't doing things exceptionally well and was following the ways of the dead beat Chiefs then it would hardly be worth mentioning. The fact that he is a self starter go getter and wants to see his band prosper deserves the kudos....I think the fact is if more were like him then the non-native folks would be able to swallow the "native rights" pill a lot easier.

LC

[bush monkey]

There are a lot of changes that need to happen.(Obviouse) I live in High Prairie. I get a pretty good look at both sides of the fence, good and not so good things to say about where our tax paying money goes. I do not want or think we should contribute any more money to natives. Seeing the positives from chief Louise is what needs to happen in most native communities. Although we complain about tax dollars and how they are wasted, it does usually make full circle. It helps stimulate the economy. Billions every year spilt into surrounding buissneses. Yes this is good. But it still doesn't help them! More money won't help either! They need help and guidance as Louise has instilled. I do agree with the Natives that they need more from the Gov. But its not more money. You want more possitives! Help them prosper, imagine how that would contribute to our country! These people help regulate what happens to our earth. BillC45 is a Vallid concern! I hope we come to a positve agreement over all this. A step into the right direction.Time for a change. Then we can talk more possitives!
Sorry about spelling and my rant. Just wanted to contribute to discussion as I have been following closely. It effects us all!

[rwm1273]

There is misunderstanding on both sides here. I have a problem with lazy freeloaders, and people who take advantage of a broken system, regardless of race, religion or creed. If I voice how I feel on certain subjects, I am sometimes viewed as racist by the people who are guilty of being the abuser, trust me, I am in no way a racist, but there are people who love to play the race card.

Yup, been accused of the same. I am not racists, but perhaps a bit opinionated would be better to label me. I love my kids, and they are both treaty status. So I must have loved a native woman at one time. lol

[rwm1273]

I don't think it is interesting studay in human nature at all...the guy works hard and has a lot to show for it. If he wasn't doing things exceptionally well and was following the ways of the dead beat Chiefs then it would hardly be worth mentioning. The fact that he is a self starter go getter and wants to see his band prosper deserves the kudos....I think the fact is if more were like him then the non-native folks would be able to swallow the "native rights" pill a lot easier.

LC

It is not so much the "native" pill as much as the "native" sense of entitlement that I have an issue with.

If you want to hunt and fish and live off the land year round, I will support the native to do this. If the native wants to go to school and then get a job outside the reserve, I will support this too. But if you want to go to school, and then waste the money getting drunk in the city, I will have issues with this. And this is the reason why many natives have a bad reputation in my opinion.

[Sporty]

There is definitely a difference between being overly opinionated and racist and for the most part, these discussions have been not only productive but respectful and I thank those that can debate this issue with a clear head.

There are Aboriginals who are quick to pull the race card but in the same sense, people need understand that we can be a little overly sensitive and defensive due to personal experiences with true racism. These discussion of late I think have been great because there has been learning and understanding coming from everyone and has been a great way for people to vent their frustrations over a broken system.

That said, bands such as Osoyoos, Sawridge etc have shown great entrepreneurial leadership in the Native communities. If we support these bands, buying their wines, staying at their hotels we help contribute to their success and their success helps contribute to Canadian economy. Instead of buying wines from California next time, try one of the Nk'Mip wines. We stay in Sawridge hotel when we go to Jasper, they have clean rooms, good rates and their restaurant features some great game cuisine.

[HunterDave]

The Enoch Band here in Edmonton seem to be doing pretty good. They built the River Cree Casino and Hotel and have Indian Lakes Golf Course. I've been to both and they employ a lot of Natives. I don't know if the apparent success can be attributed to only one person but collectively things seemed to have worked out well. I think that there are a lot of success stories out there. If someone had a look perhaps they wouldn't be so stereotypical about their way of thinking.

You build a thousand bridges and no one calls you a bridge builder but..........

[rwm1273]

There's all kinds of mini solutions to small problems in the big picture. but the big picture is first nation governments needs to be accountable for their actions. First nations are mini 3rd world country's within our nation. But in order to put any mechanisms in place for the betterment of Canada's financial position we must first ensure money and effort is not wasted.

As both a tax payer and a supposed beneficiary of these agrements I see nothing come my way, I pay for my training out of my own pocket, and work my ass of on a rig to live comfortable. Until reservation leadership can collectively help us help them nothing should change. Having successful native communities helps the population as a whole and eliminates some racism or hard feelings.

I uses to manage the local band ranch, I was forced out because I was too honest, I refuses to cut cheques for politicians, and fired people for not showing up, and was told I was harsh because I made people work hard when I was there. In the 3 years I was there it went from a subsidizes program to a program that employed 15 members, and saw revinew. Revinew was also a problem because the band council wanted it, refused to let me invest it back in the business. How stupid is that?

My point is native people all want change but have a hard time accepting it. Thank you to the Feds for stepping in to make solutions to the problem. All the other mechanisms will fall into place once what money does go to first nations is not wasted. It's for the betterment of our great nation.

Your post explains a lot about the dysfunction of the native bands screwing their own people. I know there are many good natives who are honest and hard working. Unfortunately when they show their face, they are punished by the rest. That needs to end.

[rwm1273]

The Enoch Band here in Edmonton seem to be doing pretty good. They built the River Cree Casino and Hotel and have Indian Lakes Golf Course. I've been to both and they employ a lot of Natives. I don't know if the apparent success can be attributed to only one person but collectively things seemed to have worked out well. I think that there are a lot of success stories out there. If someone had a look perhaps they wouldn't be so stereotypical about their way of thinking.

You build a thousand bridges and no one calls you a bridge builder but..........

They were not always like this, and the casino does have it's problems with some of it's local staff.

[rwm1273]

There is definitely a difference between being overly opinionated and racist and for the most part, these discussions have been not only productive but respectful and I thank those that can debate this issue with a clear head.

There are Aboriginals who are quick to pull the race card but in the same sense, people need understand that we can be a little overly sensitive and defensive due to personal experiences with true racism. These discussion of late I think have been great because there has been learning and understanding coming from everyone and has been a great way for people to vent their frustrations over a broken system.

That said, bands such as Osoyoos, Sawridge etc have shown great entrepreneurial leadership in the Native communities. If we support these bands, buying their wines, staying at their hotels we help contribute to their success and their success helps contribute to Canadian economy. Instead of buying wines from California next time, try one of the Nk'Mip wines. We stay in Sawridge hotel when we go to Jasper, they have clean rooms, good rates and their restaurant features some great game cuisine.
I do try to support the Sawridge since it is a good place to stay, with good food, a reasonable price, and I can't complain about the service or quality of the rooms. It makes no difference to me that it is a native owned chain, but more that is it s a good value.

When I was still with my native ex wife, she made me aware of the native run resorts, and I started to pay more attention to where my dollar was spent because of this. This may be one of the few good legacies of that marriage. (other then my children of course)

[HunterDave]

They were not always like this, and the casino does have it's problems with some of it's local staff.

Just like every other business. :)

[rwm1273]

Just like every other business. :)

Yes, but other businesses do not start off with the money they did, or the tax breaks they have. They had an advantage in that, but they also had to beat the reputation of being a native reserve too.

They have become a success because they chose the right acts to play, had the right size of venue to attract quality acts, been close enough to the city, and have kept the price affordable so people who may have had reservations about attending would still come. It has been a good business model.

[bigshell]

I think so too, my comments were more about making a point about the difference in attitudes when Chief Louie comes up....all the complaints about living tax free etc are forgotten.....an interesting study in human nature!!

A lot of the bands could learn from their success. :-)

I know what you were meaning,I just don't wanna get dragged into the usual ao mudslinging bs.I was stating my opinion on Chief Louie more as a buisnessman.I don't know what kinda politician he is.Maybe he ain't popular with his band members maybe he is.I know over in the okanagan at the buisness's the band owns/opperates its all smiles for the tourists.Big push from the band to keep the tourist trade coming in.I imagine they had consultants come in and train them how to run these buisness's and probably a bevy of financial advisors as well to get them into these investments.Power to them,they are a sucess story here in BC where its been hard economic times since 2008.

[Rocky7]

There is definitely a difference between being overly opinionated and racist and for the most part, these discussions have been not only productive but respectful and I thank those that can debate this issue with a clear head.

Well said.

There are Aboriginals who are quick to pull the race card but in the same sense, people need understand that we can be a little overly sensitive and defensive due to personal experiences with true racism.

Old habits and stinky thinking die hard. It's good we're getting on top of that, at least a little bit. Those things have hurt real people for quite a while.

What would any one of us do, or have done, if you saw the local chief or council steal a million dollars from money that was supposed to go to the community and, everyone knowing very well what had happened, you then see representatives of same government attend a sweetgrass ceremony, nod their heads and hand over another million?

To whom would you complain...to the crooks who control where and how you live or to the dummies they manipulate?

That said, bands such as Osoyoos, Sawridge etc have shown great entrepreneurial leadership in the Native communities. If we support these bands, buying their wines, staying at their hotels we help contribute to their success and their success helps contribute to Canadian economy. Instead of buying wines from California next time, try one of the Nk'Mip wines. We stay in Sawridge hotel when we go to Jasper, they have clean rooms, good rates and their restaurant features some great game cuisine.

They have shown more than leadership, haven't they? They have shown success. Most of all they ever needed was for the *?(!*!** bureaucrats and politicians to stop patting them on the head and get to f*77& out of the way. That, and a leader. A chief.

Yes - let's make a point of supporting them. That's what most of this thread has been about, IMO. And we will support them because they do good work and provide good service, not just because they are indians. And we will say so.

A special appreciation from me to those who talked honestly about their first-hand experience without playing the usual cards. This AO board isn't everything, but it is a little something.

[HunterDave]

AFN Chief Shawn Atleo taking a break for health reasons......too bad that this is required. :(

"There were many long conference calls, late night meetings, and frustrations in the past two weeks. I regret to have to tell you that those long days have caught up with me. This weekend, my doctor ordered that I take some time now to rest and recover and I have agreed with my family that I do this now."

http://www.afn.ca/index.php/en/national-chief/highlights-from-the-national-chief/message-from-the-national-chief-january-14-2013

[Rocky7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBV41MWEYvI&feature=share

[Zuludog]

He is not alone. I know a couple of guys who have been proving him right, since long before any of this made it to the media.

Randy, the owner of RC North has been doing it for years and he won Native Businessman of the year for his businesses. I grew up with Randy.
Brad, owner of Creeman Logging has been doing it too.

There are others, far more then most would believe, I suspect.
But it seems that no one notices these guys. They only seem to notice the drunks and the protesters.

That's kinda like judging the non native population by what you encounter on skid row, and on the picket lines.

Your are totally right. In any community or environment etc. the person or people having the negative impact are the ones that get the most attention. It applies to all stereotypes and probably all instances, unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so to speak. Hate gun owners focus on the azzhat from Sandyhook, look at he guys from INM.

Unfortunately the hard working, moral and decent people in this world mostly "soldier on" mostly unnoticed and the immoral, liars, cheats, thieves, killers and m orally bankrupt are front page news. I don't think that there is anything sinister or conspiratorial about NOT hearing about native success stories, its just that like most positive things, it isn't deemed "newsworthy" by the MSM.

I must admit to being in the dark about Chief Louie but this thread is a positive eye opener. This guys seems to be a no BS guy and looks like he's doing a great job leading and setting an example, not only for his people but for people in general.

[rwm1273]

Make Louie the Liberal Party of Canada Leader and the Liberals may have a chance. Tough speaking, no nonsense politician. Never heard of it till now.

Chief Louie does not sound like he is a Liberal. He sounds the opposite of a Liberal. He thinks people should work for what they get. No free handouts from him.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Chief Louie does not sound like he is a Liberal. He sounds the opposite of a Liberal. He thinks people should work for what they get. No free handouts from him.

X2....

Don't taint the man's reputation by suggesting he fits a lieberal mold.....:)

LC