What exactly are metis/treaty hunting rights?

[LacLaBicheNS]

I got into a disscusion with someone about what exactly are the hunting rights of metis and full treaty people. Yes I know all metis and treaty are now considered "Indian", but for the sake of conversation I need the two status's seperate. My questions are

1) Do Metis/stats have the right to hunt ANYWHERE in the province? I was told by a metis fellow that metis hunting rights only apply's if they are hunting with in a certain KM of their resereve/settlement.

2)Do metis/statues need to have a tag for animals taken? If they need tags, do the tags work like non status in that they are only good for specific zones?

3) DO metis/status have to follow hunting seasons like non metis?


I am not looking for information to report a crime or to start a fight. I'd just like to know the laws to settle a disscussion. This is not to argue whether these laws/privelegdes are right or wrong.

I looked on line and from what I found metis can hunt all year anywhere they want except in areas closed for conservation and crownland that has something on it making it un safe to hunt ie gas and oil workers. I also read they can take any animal as long as it is for sustenance.

[LacLaBicheNS]

This is the article I found http://www.albertametis.com/metisRights/metisRights-harvesting.aspx . although I don't know if its up to date info or not

[LacLaBicheNS]

Found this article, more up to date http://srd.alberta.ca/FishWildlife/FishingHuntingTrapping/documents/MetisHarvestingInAlberta-Jun-2010.pdf

In this article Metis can only use their hunting rights within a community. It states this means if there is no deffinitive boundry to their area it will be assumed they must be within 160km's of a community. what is does not say is if this "community" has to be the settlement/reserve they are from. Can anyone clarify?

[Alberta Bigbore]

:thinking-006:

they are very different from each other.....





I cant speak for my metis brudders.... but I can hunt.. under my treaty card...365 days a year... for everything under the sun pretty well... but bighorns, cougars, grizzlies, caribou and a select few others need to be registered. I can use a rifle in bow season.. or any other season .

I can fish without a license but need to obey the rules of the Alberta Sportfishing regulations, catch limits, size limits, etc etc. Only thing different in no license required.

You name is Laclabiche... im assuming your from lac la biche... if so.. Im stunned you dont know much for facts...... after a bazillion threads on the topics in the last 2 weeks... Im sure one of my fellow Nates is looking in your window ...right now as we speak.:) I havent been to LLB for a long time... but Pow Wow days was a hoot.:sHa_shakeshout:

[LacLaBicheNS]

:thinking-006:

they are very different from each other.....

yup, but the second article is much newer than the first article

[Alberta Bigbore]

i made an edit

[LacLaBicheNS]

:thinking-006:

they are very different from each other.....





I cant speak for my metis brudders.... but I can hunt.. under my treaty card...365 days a year... for everything under the sun pretty well... but bighorns, cougars, grizzlies, caribou and a select few others need to be registered. I can use a rifle in bow season.. or any other season .

I can fish without a license but need to obey the rules of the Alberta Sportfishing regulations, catch limits, size limits, etc etc. Only thing different in no license required.

You name is Laclabiche... im assuming your from lac la biche... if so.. Im stunned you dont know much for facts...... after a bazillion threads on the topics in the last 2 weeks... Im sure one of my fellow Nates is looking in your window ...right now as we speak.:) I havent been to LLB for a long time... but Pow Wow days was a hoot.:sHa_shakeshout:

I am not from lac la biche. I moved here from out of province. Hopefully that explains why your stunned.

Part of the problem is, not many people here know the exact laws. Two metis people gave me two different answers. Which is why I came here for clarification.

I generally don't read threads which go on about any aboriginal hunting rights or issues.. I don't like to get involved.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Fair enough. :)

[HunterDave]

From what I understand LLB, the Metis are currently in talks with the government about their hunting and fishing rights. They currently have similar rights as other Natives except they are restricted to certain areas around their settlements. For example, they might be allowed to hunt any crown land 365 days/year within 100 km radius of Frog Lake (I don't know the exact distance but you get the point). This is a problem for the Metis that live in southern Alberta where there are no settlements and there is a court case now for a Metis hunting out of season down there. The last I heard it is on the 3rd and final appeal.

Unlike Ontario and a couple of other provinces Metis have their hunting/fishing rights in Alberta. Recently the Supreme Court ruled that they should be given the same rights as other Natives so changes will need to be made there.

That's pretty much all that I know about it but I think that I addressed everything. :)

[LacLaBicheNS]

From what I understand LLB, the Metis are currently in talks with the government about their hunting and fishing rights. They currently have similar rights as other Natives except they are restricted to certain areas around their settlements. For example, they might be allowed to hunt any crown land 365 days/year within 100 km radius of Frog Lake (I don't know the exact distance but you get the point). This is a problem for the Metis that live in southern Alberta where there are no settlements and there is a court case now for a Metis hunting out of season down there. The last I heard it is on the 3rd and final appeal.

Unlike Ontario and a couple of other provinces Metis have their hunting/fishing rights in Alberta. Recently the Supreme Court ruled that they should be given the same rights as other Natives so changes will need to be made there.

That's pretty much all that I know about it but I think that I addressed everything. :)

awsome.. thank you.. Yes in the second article it says they must be 160km's from their "community".. ALthough they don't say if it has to be the metis community their blood lines originated from or any metis community.

[Bowhunter102]

awsome.. thank you.. Yes in the second article it says they must be 160km's from their "community".. ALthough they don't say if it has to be the metis community their blood lines originated from or any metis community.

Not trying to stir the pot but why is it so hard for you and all others to buy a tag and join today society? I have blood lines in me that go way way back in north America and I am not trying to play this card. Hunting licences and draws are for a reason. To manage herds. There in no way in hell that anybody can shoot an animal cheaper than buying beef from the store. Also you can't eat horns. So why is it a concern what laws we have or have not for Metis or any other race. Equal rights for everybody. Buy a tag and fallow seasons.

[LacLaBicheNS]

[QUOTE=Bowhunter102;1814930]Not trying to stir the pot but why is it so hard for you and all others to buy a tag and join today society? I have blood lines in me that go way way back in north America and I am not trying to play this card. Hunting licences and draws are for a reason. To manage herds. There in no way in hell that anybody can shoot an animal cheaper than buying beef from the store. Also you can't eat horns. So why is it a concern what laws we have or have not for Metis or any other race. Equal rights for everybody. Buy a tag and fallow seasons.[/QUOT

Good job reading. I asked for this bs to be left out. I just needed clarification.

If you need to know, I COULD get my status card, but I don't have it. I hunt/fish just like you. I buy my tags and put in for draws like you. I have no interest getting my status card. But like I said, my questions had nothing to do with what your asking.

[Craddosk]

awsome.. thank you.. Yes in the second article it says they must be 160km's from their "community".. ALthough they don't say if it has to be the metis community their blood lines originated from or any metis community.

Have to be 160 km's within a community that has given them "Harvester Status", and be able to show that their ancestry links them to that community. Then they have hunting rights year round in that 160km circle. On Feb. 11, this is part of the case going towards the Alberta courts, as to the definitions the AB Gov't is using to define this.

THe Hunting Regs has a (small) section on Metis Harvesting, if I remember correctly.

[H380]

Not trying to stir the pot but why is it so hard for you and all others to buy a tag and join today society? I have blood lines in me that go way way back in north America and I am not trying to play this card. Hunting licences and draws are for a reason. To manage herds. There in no way in hell that anybody can shoot an animal cheaper than buying beef from the store. Also you can't eat horns. So why is it a concern what laws we have or have not for Metis or any other race. Equal rights for everybody. Buy a tag and fallow seasons.

I like your comments 102 and personally don't think you are stirring the pot . The only question I would add to this whole mess is this , " wasn't the so called white man here before the Metis ?"What about their huning rights? Oh ya , they buy their tags and have seasons to adhere too .:sHa_shakeshout:

[Bowhunter102]

[QUOTE=Bowhunter102;1814930]Not trying to stir the pot but why is it so hard for you and all others to buy a tag and join today society? I have blood lines in me that go way way back in north America and I am not trying to play this card. Hunting licences and draws are for a reason. To manage herds. There in no way in hell that anybody can shoot an animal cheaper than buying beef from the store. Also you can't eat horns. So why is it a concern what laws we have or have not for Metis or any other race. Equal rights for everybody. Buy a tag and fallow seasons.[/QUOT

Good job reading. I asked for this bs to be left out. I just needed clarification.

If you need to know, I COULD get my status card, but I don't have it. I hunt/fish just like you. I buy my tags and put in for draws like you. I have no interest getting my status card. But like I said, my questions had nothing to do with what your asking. Why are you asking then? also no were did I say I was not treaty or Metis. Either way as stated the free for all should be over for all of us.

[riden]

From what I understand LLB, the Metis are currently in talks with the government about their hunting and fishing rights. They currently have similar rights as other Natives except they are restricted to certain areas around their settlements. For example, they might be allowed to hunt any crown land 365 days/year within 100 km radius of Frog Lake (I don't know the exact distance but you get the point). This is a problem for the Metis that live in southern Alberta where there are no settlements and there is a court case now for a Metis hunting out of season down there. The last I heard it is on the 3rd and final appeal.

Unlike Ontario and a couple of other provinces Metis have their hunting/fishing rights in Alberta. Recently the Supreme Court ruled that they should be given the same rights as other Natives so changes will need to be made there.

That's pretty much all that I know about it but I think that I addressed everything. :)


And I bet those talks stopped in their tracks.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=163047


Things are really up in the air right now

[bruceba]

From what I understand LLB, the Metis are currently in talks with the government about their hunting and fishing rights.

Completely different from what I heard, I heard the Alta Gov approached the Metis Nation of Alberta months ago to instigate talks but with the ongoing court case it was a no go. Almost like the Alta Gov knew in advance what the outcome of the trial down east would be. They wanted to get talks underway and have an agreement in place (some what restricted agreement) before that ruling down east was delivered.

[Walleyes]

:thinking-006:

they are very different from each other.....





I cant speak for my metis brudders.... but I can hunt.. under my treaty card...365 days a year... for everything under the sun pretty well... but bighorns, cougars, grizzlies, caribou and a select few others need to be registered. I can use a rifle in bow season.. or any other season .

I can fish without a license but need to obey the rules of the Alberta Sportfishing regulations, catch limits, size limits, etc etc. Only thing different in no license required.

You name is Laclabiche... im assuming your from lac la biche... if so.. Im stunned you dont know much for facts...... after a bazillion threads on the topics in the last 2 weeks... Im sure one of my fellow Nates is looking in your window ...right now as we speak.:) I havent been to LLB for a long time... but Pow Wow days was a hoot.:sHa_shakeshout:

Unless you use a net and do it under the guise of substanence fishing. Then you can fill your freezer,, your Granma's freezer and the whole communities freezer if you so choose.. Which has been the situation taking place on numurous lakes in the northern regions.. Many lakes closed for Walleye retention have been hit hard by the keepers of the land,, just because they can..

[Bowhunter102]

Unless you use a net and do it under the guise of substanence fishing. Then you can fill your freezer,, your Granma's freezer and the whole communities freezer if you so choose.. Which has been the situation taking place on numurous lakes in the northern regions.. Many lakes closed for Walleye retention have been hit hard by the keepers of the land,, just because they can..

Wrong. Fishing is not in the treaty. So like ABB stated. Only difference to anybody else is he does not require a licence. It is different for fishing per treaty.

[waterhawk]

Alberta Bigbore: What treaty relates to you?

[Walleyes]

Wrong. Fishing is not in the treaty. So like ABB stated. Only difference to anybody else is he does not require a licence. It is different for fishing per treaty.


Well that may be and as such someone should tell the metis that have been hitting Touchwood, LaBiche, Pinehurst over the last couple years,, because it seems that the CO's don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole..

[Bowhunter102]

Well that may be and as such someone should tell the metis that have been hitting Touchwood, LaBiche, Pinehurst over the last couple years,, because it seems that the CO's don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole..

Well they are all breaking the law. Full blood or half blood.

[Alberta Bigbore]

Unless you use a net and do it under the guise of substanence fishing. Then you can fill your freezer,, your Granma's freezer and the whole communities freezer if you so choose.. Which has been the situation taking place on numurous lakes in the northern regions.. Many lakes closed for Walleye retention have been hit hard by the keepers of the land,, just because they can..

Yes i am aware of that...i was just speaking of sport angling.

[waterhawk]

Wrong. Fishing is not in the treaty. So like ABB stated. Only difference to anybody else is he does not require a licence. It is different for fishing per treaty.

I do not understand when you say fishing is not in the treaty. Treaty six states as follows:

"Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians that they, the said Indians, shall have right to pursue their avocations of hunting and fishing throughout the tract surrendered as hereinbefore described"

[Alberta Bigbore]

Wrong. Fishing is not in the treaty. So like ABB stated. Only difference to anybody else is he does not require a licence. It is different for fishing per treaty.

He is not wrong.... if remember correctly....i can run one....200 meter net in one body of water at a time..... treaty number must be on the flags. Just have to go down to fish and wildlife and get the permit which..... costs nothing.

[Alberta Bigbore]

He is not wrong.... if remember correctly....i can run one....200 meter net in one body of water at a time..... treaty number must be on the flags. Just have to go down to fish and wildlife and get the permit which..... costs nothing.

Everything ive mentioned is in regards to...Alberta..... Provinces like Manitoba.....are a total different ball game.

[Walleyes]

I hope you realise ABB that I was not implying that you have been taking part in this action, just clarifying things..

[riden]

He is not wrong.... if remember correctly....i can run one....200 meter net in one body of water at a time..... treaty number must be on the flags. Just have to go down to fish and wildlife and get the permit which..... costs nothing.

Dam this thread


Would walleye be good for supper, dam I wish I could put out a net right now. All I have been thinking about is fish since this started

[walking buffalo]

If you need to know, I COULD get my status card, but I don't have it. I hunt/fish just like you. I buy my tags and put in for draws like you. I have no interest getting my status card. But like I said, my questions had nothing to do with what your asking.

Personally, I would get the paperwork done.

Why would I want my children to be Third Class Canadian citizens when all I had to do to make them First Class is a lttle paperwork?

[Alberta Bigbore]

I hope you realise ABB that I was not implying that you have been taking part in this action, just clarifying things..

I didnt think that. I should have mentioned it.

[Bowhunter102]

Personally, I would get the paperwork done.

Why would I want my children to be Third Class Canadian citizens when all I had to do to make them First Class is a lttle paperwork?
Third class? Last I checked no one is third class in this country. What class are you? 1st,2nd, or 3rd? I totally disagree with this kid of statement. Actually racist to all other groups of people. Heck even some Indian would take offense to your comment.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:sign0161: Here we go again.....

[savage shooter]

I can use a rifle in bow season.. or any other season .


Ah yes, that makes sense. Because natives certainly had rifles before the white man came.

No, wait. They hadn't discovered gun powder. In fact, they hadn't even discovered the bronze age or any metallurgy. They hadn't even invented the wheel. Their tools were made of stone or bone... They had fire, at least. Not more than 1 rung above a cave man. That's a fact.

So...why do they get to use a rifle in bow hunting season or any season? It's hardly some ancient tradition. If they want to live the way they lived before the white man came, they should give up the wonders that the white man brought with him and actually live the way they did before the white man came.

Otherwise, they can buy tags like the rest of us and, sure, use a rifle in rifle season. Just my opinion.
Third class? Last I checked no one is third class in this country. What class are you? 1st,2nd, or 3rd? I totally disagree with this kid of statement. Actually racist to all other groups of people. Heck even some Indian would take offense to your comment.


Special treatment for natives is racist. Look at the guffaw over 'chief' spence. She's an embezzling criminal but the law doesn't apply to her or her ilk. She doesn't have to account for the millions she's stolen.

Natives can commit crimes and get lighter sentences as a matter of law (gladue). They are truly the only first class citizens in Canada. Everyone else is second class.

Natives are privileged in the eyes of the law.

[baptiste_moose]

:sSig_nicethread:

[Dog hunter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nations . Metis -persons descended from mixed aboriginal and European settlers .they are not First Nation therefor should be buying tags! Metis hunting right = poaching

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:)...IMHO..this thread has gone beyond discussion again and a friendly Mod needs to..............

http://forums.mathewsinc.com/images/userpix/6673_Nuke_4.jpg

[Alberta Bigbore]

Nah... cuz when i shut down threads im told in on a power trip and if it was on a native thread..then i just get pm's that im racist and cant handle it. Lol lets see what happens in a bit... I ♥ Haters!

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

lol...:party0052:

[Dog hunter]

Facts

[waterhawk]

In post #33 Savage Shooter stated:

"Ah yes, that makes sense. Because natives certainly had rifles before the white man came.

No, wait. They hadn't discovered gun powder. In fact, they hadn't even discovered the bronze age or any metallurgy. They hadn't even invented the wheel. Their tools were made of stone or bone... They had fire, at least. Not more than 1 rung above a cave man. That's a fact.

So...why do they get to use a rifle in bow hunting season or any season? It's hardly some ancient tradition. If they want to live the way they lived before the white man came, they should give up the wonders that the white man brought with him and actually live the way they did before the white man came.

Otherwise, they can buy tags like the rest of us and, sure, use a rifle in rifle season. Just my opinion"

Status Indians got special hunting and fishing rights when they entered into treaties with the Crown. In Treaty Six the Indians bargained away the right to 121,000 square miles, including the minerals, oil and gas, for very little. That little included the right to hunt and fish. The Indians would never had agreed to the Treaty if it had not stated that they could continue to hunt and fish. Savage Shooter, you obviously want to back and renegotiate the treaties. What portion of the 121,000 sqaure miles of land do you suggest be offered back to the Treaty Six Indians in exchange for their special right to hunt and fish.

[Dog hunter]

As far as anyone implying that I may be racist my wife is full blood Cree,and before anyone jumps on that I spent 130+ dollars on tags last season ,she has hunting rights,I don't she doesn't hunt and that's fine with me

[H380]

Nah... cuz when i shut down threads im told in on a power trip and if it was on a native thread..then i just get pm's that im racist and cant handle it. Lol lets see what happens in a bit... I ♥ Haters!

No I think we have more respect for you than that ABB .. You tend to be pretty fair and open minded .

[Alberta Bigbore]

Alot yes...alot no. And thats fine and dandy...as us moderators are not here for a popularity contest.

[catnthehat]

If people have no more class than to trash ABB via pm for shutting down a thread that obviously went off the rails, maybe a different mod should do it.
After all, i think the original question was lost and the trash talk started sometme after post #10 here! The rest of this thread has very littel if any decent content.:sign0161:
Cat

[savage shooter]

Savage Shooter, you obviously want to back and renegotiate the treaties. What portion of the 121,000 sqaure miles of land do you suggest be offered back to the Treaty Six Indians in exchange for their special right to hunt and fish.

None. How many other conquered peoples are there in history that would get the kind of benefit?

None.

Land and countries have changed hands after being conquered by a superior culture for millennia. It's nothing new. The approach was all wrong. There never should have been any treaties. It was a conquest. A superior force and culture came and took the whole damn continent. They were up against people who were LITERALLY at the technical level of the caveman. I don't mean that to be offensive. It's factual. Look at what they had and what they were doing. I have no idea why anyone felt the need to have any treaties...

We're talking about something that happened hundreds of years ago before anyone alive was born. If the whole world acted like this, all of Europe would owe each other constant welfare and special treatment. It's nonsense.

[riden]

None. How many other conquered peoples are there in history that would get the kind of benefit?

None.

Land and countries have changed hands after being conquered by a superior culture for millennia. It's nothing new. The approach was all wrong. There never should have been any treaties. It was a conquest. A superior force and culture came and took the whole damn continent. They were up against people who were LITERALLY at the technical level of the caveman. I don't mean that to be offensive. It's factual. Look at what they had and what they were doing. I have no idea why anyone felt the need to have any treaties...

We're talking about something that happened hundreds of years ago before anyone alive was born. If the whole world acted like this, all of Europe would owe each other constant welfare and special treatment. It's nonsense.

When exactly did we conquer them in Canada? I missed that part in history class. PLease fill me in?

[wwbirds]

I have no idea

Well at least you got some part of it right! You would never want facts of history to slant your opinion!

[riden]

Well at least you got some part of it right! You would never want facts of history to slant your opinion!

Next you'll be telling me John Wayne isn't Canadian!!!!!!!!

[savage shooter]

:rolleyes:

Of COURSE they are a conquered people. The ones that aren't extinct live on sad little reserves isolated and spotted across our country where they receive welfare from that country's government.

By what other definition would you call them conquered?

[waterhawk]

None. How many other conquered peoples are there in history that would get the kind of benefit?

None.

Land and countries have changed hands after being conquered by a superior culture for millennia. It's nothing new. The approach was all wrong. There never should have been any treaties. It was a conquest. A superior force and culture came and took the whole damn continent. They were up against people who were LITERALLY at the technical level of the caveman. I don't mean that to be offensive. It's factual. Look at what they had and what they were doing. I have no idea why anyone felt the need to have any treaties...

We're talking about something that happened hundreds of years ago before anyone alive was born. If the whole world acted like this, all of Europe would owe each other constant welfare and special treatment. It's nonsense.

Savage Shooter: Your approach to countries honouring treaties is unknown to me. It seems that what you are saying is that if the United States made a treaty with Canada about something like the location of the border, the United States should be able to renege on that treaty if it was made hundreds of years ago before anyone alive now was born. Interesting.

The fact is the Crown made treaties with the Indians. In the west the Crown did so to get the Indians to consent to opening up the land for settlement. Treaty Six states:

"And whereas the said Indians have been notified and informed by Her Majesty's said Commissioners that it is the desire of Her Majesty to open up for settlement, immigration and such other purposes as to Her Majesty may seem meet, a tract of country bounded and described as hereinafter mentioned, and to obtain the consent thereto of Her Indian subjects inhabiting the said tract, and to make a treaty and arrange with them, so that there may be peace and good will between them and Her Majesty, and that they may know and be assured of what allowance they are to count upon and receive from Her Majesty's bounty and benevolence."

I do not believe the Crown made a bad deal in the western treaties. I also believe it is important to honour agreements even if at a latter date you come to believe you have made a bad deal.

[riden]

oops

[wwbirds]

Next you'll be telling me John Wayne isn't Canadian!!!!!!!!

Is that the same Canadian John Wayne that conquered all the Canadian natives at the battle of Wounded Brain? It must have been on television so I know it is true:sHa_shakeshout:

[jts1]

Here is a post I found online that I think is very well said.

.






I've been #IdleTooLong about this whole topic, and I feel like I need to express my point of view without disrupting innocent travelers on highways, and cargo carrying freight trains.
First, allow me to clarify that I am a Cree man with full status. I have family in positions of political power in this very province, and should declare that my opinions are my own. While everyone needles over the finite details of the current situation, I'd like to paint my thoughts for you with much broader strokes.

I'm so very proud of my culture. The way the plains Indians lived on this land was a fantastic example of community, art, respect for our environment, ingenuity, and spirituality. I'm proud of the native inspired tattoos that I sport permanently on my body. As a father, I'm teaching my son that same respect and understanding of where his blood derives from, in the hopes that his pride will outshine the prejudice he will inevitably experience growing up, or at some point in his life.

I'm also very proud to be Canadian. Our vast mosaic of cultures, languages, and beliefs make up this welcoming land of opportunity for all. Whether you like it or not, we all have the same citizenship, but some have a different view on the value of it.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the government bills, documentation, or policy that is driving the current protests, but I've intently watched news stories, read columns, and have regularly monitored the comments being made on facebook. Based on all of this, I feel the need to break my silence on this issue.

1 - It's embarrassing how the #IdleNoMore protest is being handled.
Blocking major traffic thoroughfares does nothing good to bring support and awareness to your cause, it creates immediate animosity towards you. Protesting freely in parks or in front of government buildings seems like a much more productive way to attract the attention of those you seek. The politicians. Not the regular welder-Joe who's just trying to get to work. Hold him up and cost him money? See how much support you'll get out of that guy...

Clarify what you are protesting for, or against. I've never seen such a passionate group of people go forward in protest in such disarray, and without clearly stating what it's all about. If it's generally about your need to be consulted, respected, justified for being mistreated, or the preservation of your culture, then let's be out with it and start a constructive discussion.

Understand that you do not need to be consulted for anything any more than the Canadian citizen next to you does. Your opinion on things doesn't count "more" than anyone else's.
Respect is earned, not given.

There's no question that the native people of yesterday were brutalized, hunted, tortured, and humiliated for decades. It's awful, and no one should ever have to suffer like that. The elders of the time signed those treaties to bring peace, and offer what they hoped would be a leg-up in a new world that they realized couldn't be held at bay. But those days are long over. It defies logic to have the current population pay for the tragedies committed by people that came so long before them.

The preservation of your culture is YOUR job, not anyone else's. For example, Polish, Irish, and Ukrainian societies thrive all over the country with very little or no support from government coffers. They celebrate traditional dance, language, and food all by simply passing it down from generation to generation. Native communities can do the very same thing (and generally do), but without financial support.

2 - "This movement is about the whole environment, its not just about the treaties....The bill that passed now un protects the rivers, lakes, forests, land, etc, etc, so we need this bill to further protect ur childrens futures.....thanks to Harper Govt....rigs n developemtn will pollute the air, waters, etc, etc.."

It's no secret that our Canadian economy is driven by the oil and gas industry. Yes, there have been some awful environmental blunders due to a plethora of different reasons. I heartily agree that we need to protect our natural areas that support wildlife, but I also know that there is aggressive legislation, and powerful government offices in place that already have that very same sentiment at heart. Millions of Canadians support green technology and research, as well as lobby for stronger federal policy. So if that's what this is all about, there's no need to blockade anything, as a majority of people would already agree with you.

3 - "It is about the 480 page Bill that the government has passed without you knowing about it. It went through the house of commons and the senate in 2 wks. 480 pgs long...do you think that many people had time to read it? It says that under age criminals can be punished as adults. It makes more budget cuts. The librarians at schools are being budget cut. It is about ALOT more than Aboriginals, it's about everyone in Canada. The Aboriginals are the ones who started to realize the Bill was gonna to do irreversable damage!"

Back in the days of copying notes off a blackboard or projector in school, I'm certain I've WRITTEN 480 pages in two weeks, let alone read that many. In a political world where literacy at a high level is demanded, I'm willing to bet that most could plow through that many pages in a very short period of time. I suppose the content would be laden with bureaucratic jargon and would need time to fully interpret...but that's why you have a legal team.
Quite frankly, I agree with underage criminals being tried as adults, and I'm willing to bet that a landslide majority of Canadians will agree with me.

Budget cuts are a reality of our democratic world. I'm not sure if this means that librarians from schools are being removed, or the library itself, but the fact of the matter is, our schools rely on a healthy economy for funding. When money gets tight, things get sacrificed. I truly hope that the readily available knowledge in a library would be the last to go.

4 - "It's not about the Aboriginals! That is what they are doing to distract you from what it really is about! It only affects the aboriginals- just like it will effect ALL of us!"
This is very confusing, but seems to sum up the general knowledge about what is going on. Who is "they"? Are we going into conspiracy theory depths here? Do people not realize that we have an official opposition in place as a natural government watchdog to debate everything that in-power government is trying to enact? If there were truly earth shattering implications in the bill in question, the opposition would be whistle blowing and bleating into any available microphone available so fast it would make your head spin.

First and foremost, I'm a human being just like you. I believe in equality. Across the board equality. Our country is so multicultural, that to give any specific group levity over everyone else is completely ridiculous. I'm not familiar with the particulars of old treaties signed, but I get the gist because I have used some of the special privileges provided to me. I do not pay for health care. I did for awhile in my young working life, but then the government discovered my native status and sent me a HUGE apology letter, and a cheque for every dime I had put into the system. Odd. I lived just up the street from my fellow truck driving friends, did the same job, paid the same taxes...yet there I was with this benefit because of my racial background and some papers that were signed all those years ago. I've used it for eye wear. This was particularly handy when I was “up against it” financially, but had broken my glasses welding. Here's the thing though, why should I have an advantage on a co-worker who might be in the same situation? It's not fair, and it needs to stop.

I move that Canadians start their own march towards coast to coast equality, or at least the serious discussion of it. Our country should offer no free rides to anyone. No help for those who refuse to help themselves. No quarter for those who would inhibit the lives and success of others. No limit to what anyone can accomplish with a steely resolve, and a great idea. It doesn't matter who built the first camp fires and communities on this land, it's those that work hard to continue to stoke the flames of collective well being that matter.

As a man that stands by his word, I pledge to never again use my native status to further myself in a way that isn't available to every other Canadian. I will leave my son unregistered, and will teach him the importance of keeping it that way. I am a proud native man, and a hard working, forward thinking Canadian that believes the opportunities and advantages this country has to offer should be available to everyone equally.

- Anthony Sowan
@sowanonair

please share

UPDATE: After watching a day of comments...

For those of you that feel that I need to meticulously read treaty documentation, and Native history, I offer you this: There is no argument you can offer that justifies inequality of any kind in this country.

I said I didn't know every detail, but I also didn't say I'm completely uneducated on the subject. I also encourage people to think for themselves based on their own research.

No matter how you cut it, the monetary compensation and general advantages need to stop. Horrific things happened to people/races throughout history, and although I'm not condoning or supporting it, I do not feel that they should be given anything more than anyone else. The atrocities committed, in this instance, happened a long time ago to/by people that no longer exist. I agree that it should never be forgotten, but it makes no sense to have the innocent Canadian citizens of the present pay for crimes committed by someone else in a different time.

Really, the people that are abusing you the worst, are the people you have placed in leadership positions. Not ALL of them are corrupt, but there are some very serious issues with monetary responsibility. I honestly don't know how some band leaders haven't been arrested for fraud, embezzlement, and more.

The first step of "healing" is to put the past in it's place. Only then can you work on your own personal lives, which will then naturally stem into becoming whole as a community. The healing you want and need can come from no government program, and no external source. #CanadianEquality

[riden]

Is that the same Canadian John Wayne that conquered all the Canadian natives at the battle of Wounded Brain? It must have been on television so I know it is true:sHa_shakeshout:

You left out single handed!

[walking buffalo]

Third class? Last I checked no one is third class in this country. What class are you? 1st,2nd, or 3rd? I totally disagree with this kid of statement. Actually racist to all other groups of people. Heck even some Indian would take offense to your comment.

Disagree all you want, that doesn't change the facts. Besides, I know that you will never do anything besides type an uneducated opinion on this forum. :)

Status Indians and Metis have rights as Canadian citizens that others do not, thus there are different classes of citizenship.

There is nothing racist in my suggestion that a person should consider gaining Status for their decendants, if not for themselves.

[riden]

:rolleyes:

Of COURSE they are a conquered people. The ones that aren't extinct live on sad little reserves isolated and spotted across our country where they receive welfare from that country's government.

By what other definition would you call them conquered?

For starters, how about a definition that actually means conquered.

We didn't conquer them, you are wrong, you are confusing US history and Canadian history.

The numbered treaty process began around 1890 and ended around 1910 (they had guns then by the way). Canadians were looking to settle teh west and did not want to repeat the US war against natives here. We simply learned for their mistakes. PLus, unless Britian came to our aid (and one of the reasons we became a country in 1867 was because Britian was tired of defending us) there is no guarantee white people would have won. None at all.

So we entered into the treaty process to avoid war. The treaties were very profitable for natives, but nobody cared, because we planned to assimilate them. At the time nobody cared the treaties were forever because our ancestors thought natives would be gone within 50 years.

[357xp]

:rolleyes:

Of COURSE they are a conquered people. The ones that aren't extinct live on sad little reserves isolated and spotted across our country where they receive welfare from that country's government.

By what other definition would you call them conquered?

Quite sure each person on those "sad little isolated reserves" has the right to surrender there treaty status and leave the reservation and join the rest of humanity......no?

[waterhawk]

It was interesting to read the letter by Anthony Sowan quoted at post #53. Mr. Sowan pledged never to us his native status to further himself in a manner not available to other Canadians. If I were a status Indian, I would not take that approach. I would recognize that from the beginning my people had a diet that consisted almost exclusively of red lean meat. I would recognize that over the centuries they had become genetically modified to suit that diet. I would look around my reserve and see the health problems that have been created by adopting the modern Canadian diet. I would see the obesity and related health problems such as diabetes. I believe that in the face of that, I would make a point that there was constant supply of good quality moose, elk and deer meat available to any of my band members that wanted it. In getting that meat I would not be bothered in the least that there may be less animals to hunt for recreational hunters.

[Walleyes]

It was interesting to read the letter by Anthony Sowan quoted at post #53. Mr. Sowan pledged never to us his native status to further himself in a manner not available to other Canadians. If I were a status Indian, I would not take that approach. I would recognize that from the beginning my people had a diet that consisted almost exclusively of red lean meat. I would recognize that over the centuries they had become genetically modified to suit that diet. I would look around my reserve and see the health problems that have been created by adopting the modern Canadian diet. I would see the obesity and related health problems such as diabetes. I believe that in the face of that, I would make a point that there was constant supply of good quality moose, elk and deer meat available to any of my band members that wanted it. In getting that meat I would not be bothered in the least that there may be less animals to hunt for recreational hunters.

WOW !!! There are so many things wrong in this statement I won't even bother..

The self pitty goes on..

WOW !!!

[savage shooter]

Yes, they have the right to assimilate with the culture that conquered them.

Conquered through arms or politics, it's all the same. The white man came and conquered the nation. Of this there can be no doubt.

Also, natives complaining about treaty violations is a joke. Just look at the "idle no more" protests. (hilarious self parody in that name by the way).

Natives signed treaty with the crown saying they would obey all laws of the dominion of Canada. Blockading roads and railways is obviously a treaty violation.

[waterhawk]

WOW !!! There are so many things wrong in this statement I won't even bother..

The self pitty goes on..

WOW !!!

What kind of man would not do everything he could to protect and promote the health of his family and friends?

[Walleyes]

What kind of man would not do everything he could to protect and promote the health of his family and friends?

Then eat healthy !!! like we all do.. Quit living on pop and chips and eat something good.. Moose and Deer aren't the only healthy foods out there.. This BS red meat diet was lost long ago my friend,, long ago,, what a load of dung..

Ah shoot here I go again tyed up in this useless BS..

Who cares,, shoot the crap out of it all,, then when there is none left we wont have anything to fight over.. Take it and choke on it on the way down !!!

[unclebuck]

It was interesting to read the letter by Anthony Sowan quoted at post #53. Mr. Sowan pledged never to us his native status to further himself in a manner not available to other Canadians. If I were a status Indian, I would not take that approach. I would recognize that from the beginning my people had a diet that consisted almost exclusively of red lean meat. I would recognize that over the centuries they had become genetically modified to suit that diet. I would look around my reserve and see the health problems that have been created by adopting the modern Canadian diet. I would see the obesity and related health problems such as diabetes. I believe that in the face of that, I would make a point that there was constant supply of good quality moose, elk and deer meat available to any of my band members that wanted it. In getting that meat I would not be bothered in the least that there may be less animals to hunt for recreational hunters.

Mr. Sowan speaks like someone who knows. I guess that fast food, pop, chips & watching hunting on television in your family have upgraded the diet of animals taken with sticks & strings.

[waterhawk]

Mr. Sowan speaks like someone who knows. I guess that fast food, pop, chips & watching hunting on television in your family have upgraded the diet of animals taken with sticks & strings.

Uncle Buck: I am not sure what you are getting at. I am in good shape. No one in my family is obese. We eat very little fast food, pop and chips. I hardly ever watch hunting on television. What is the point you want to make?

[LacLaBicheNS]

[QUOTE=LacLaBicheNS;1815038] Why are you asking then? also no were did I say I was not treaty or Metis. Either way as stated the free for all should be over for all of us.

Again if you read the original post, I got into a disscusion about what exactly metis rights are because were both told different things. So I went on google to find info and again I got conflicting information. So I came on here to see if anyone can confirm. I would havee just called F and W, but it was late at night.

I don't know why your implying I said your treaty or metis. I never did.

[LacLaBicheNS]

Well that may be and as such someone should tell the metis that have been hitting Touchwood, LaBiche, Pinehurst over the last couple years,, because it seems that the CO's don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole..

I was told they are allowed to net these lakes for pike and whitefish and burbot, but also incidental walleye catches are allowed. They are not allowed to target the walleye with nets in these lakes. But they do. I had a officer explain to me if I see, call it in, but it can be hard to prove they are putting nets in places to target walleye.

[LacLaBicheNS]

Personally, I would get the paperwork done.

Why would I want my children to be Third Class Canadian citizens when all I had to do to make them First Class is a lttle paperwork?


I don't get the paper work done for a number of reasons. Firstly, I don't talk to my family enough to get us all on the same page and get the documentation done for us.

Secondly and the main reason, it wouldn't change the way I hunt and fish. I put back most all my fish because I don't fish for food. I do hunt for food (and sport), but we all have access to lots of tags if we really needed wild meat to survive. By that I mean, if I really really needed the meat I would shoot a buck and two does each year. But I don't need it, so I don't do it. Being status wouldn't change this so theres no point not following all the regulations everyone else has too.

[Alberta Bigbore]

I was told they are allowed to net these lakes for pike and whitefish and burbot, but also incidental walleye catches are allowed. They are not allowed to target the walleye with nets in these lakes. But they do. I had a officer explain to me if I see, call it in, but it can be hard to prove they are putting nets in places to target walleye.

As far as i know... a specific sized gill net must be used.

[thunderheart]

:argue2:

it gets old..:snapoutofit: laws are laws ,, suck it up .. deal with it .. go into politics if you want laws to change :sign0176:

[mxz1997]

I agree we need to keep up our end of the deal on treaties but I don't think anyone in a country should be above the law. ( illegal road blocks). But we,re way off topic of what the OP was asking....

[Bowhunter102]

[QUOTE=Bowhunter102;1815144]

Again if you read the original post, I got into a disscusion about what exactly metis rights are because were both told different things. So I went on google to find info and again I got conflicting information. So I came on here to see if anyone can confirm. I would havee just called F and W, but it was late at night.

I don't know why your implying I said your treaty or metis. I never did.No I said I was Metis.

[Bowhunter102]

The fact is that Status Indians have hunting, fishing and other rights that the average citizen does not have. You may think it does not mean a crap but clearly it means they can hunt and fish when you cannot.
I am Metis too but poaching is still poaching. I don't care what that treaty says. That is the difference between a user and an abuser.

[walking buffalo]

lol. You are off your rocker. Just cause the government gave them rights no one should have does not mean crap about them being above or below in classes. It there a different class for a treaty Indian down town drinking listerine or a whit guy or a black doing the same? No. They are all the same class. Just like the rest of people in this country province or what ever else. People that think like this are racist. Your are racist period.


Is that all you've got? Weak. :rolleye2:





I don't get the paper work done for a number of reasons. Firstly, I don't talk to my family enough to get us all on the same page and get the documentation done for us.

Secondly and the main reason, it wouldn't change the way I hunt and fish. I put back most all my fish because I don't fish for food. I do hunt for food (and sport), but we all have access to lots of tags if we really needed wild meat to survive. By that I mean, if I really really needed the meat I would shoot a buck and two does each year. But I don't need it, so I don't do it. Being status wouldn't change this so theres no point not following all the regulations everyone else has too.


Common story. Many Indians do not have Status due to such difficulties. It is not an easy path.

Status is about much more than Hunting and Fishing rights, and there is no obligation to harvest any differently than you do now. If you obtain Status and it feels right to you, continue to purchase tags and apply in the draw. Or harvest like most Status people do, just enough of an appropriate foodsource at the right time of year.

Regarding your OP questions, if you truely want a complete and correct answer, contact the Treaty #4,6,7,8,and 10 Nations and the Alberta Metis Nation. Each has their own specific conditions regarding resource rights.

[moose maniac]

I am Metis too but poaching is still poaching. I don't care what that treaty says. That is the difference between a user and an abuser.

You guys realize just because you have a metis card doesn't mean you have hunting rights,it is a long drawn out process to be recognized by the alberta goverment as a metis harvester which includes providing a family tree dating back to 1800,proving which community you belong to,those are just a couple of the many requirments

[Bowhunter102]

[QUOTE=walking buffalo;1816038]Is that all you've got? Weak. :rolleye2.

Only thing week is your racist opinions and flawed views on reality. Go roll you eye somewhere else.

[waterhawk]

I am Metis too but poaching is still poaching. I don't care what that treaty says. That is the difference between a user and an abuser.

Bowhunter102: I am not a Metis or a Status Indian. I am a white red neck that has been hunting for forty years.

[Bowhunter102]

You guys realize just because you have a metis card doesn't mean you have hunting rights,it is a long drawn out process to be recognized by the alberta goverment as a metis harvester which includes providing a family tree dating back to 1800,proving which community you belong to,those are just a couple of the many requirments I am not looking for any freebie hand outs. I am like everybody else buying tags and applying for draws. I don't think anybody in today's society hunts to feed there family. Cost is way more than buying from the store. When it comes to fishing there is not enough fish to go around. That is why we have walleye draws and catch and release I half our waters. So don't paint me with the use and abuse brush.

[moose maniac]

I am not looking for any freebie hand outs. I am like everybody else buying tags and applying for draws. I don't think anybody in today's society hunts to feed there family. Cost is way more than buying from the store. When it comes to fishing there is not enough fish to go around. That is why we have walleye draws and catch and release I half our waters. So don't paint me with the use and abuse brush.

Really not sure what your talking about,never painted you with any abuse brush,I don't recall saying you were looking for a handout.I said just because you have a metis card does not automaticaly mean you have hunting rights,I wasn't even directing that comment to you.

[Bowhunter102]

Really not sure what your talking about,never painted you with any abuse brush,I don't recall saying you were looking for a handout.I said just because you have a metis card does not automaticaly mean you have hunting rights,I wasn't even directing that comment to you.

Sorry I took that wrong. Just making it very clear I am aposed to that right that should not exist.

[LacLaBicheNS]

[QUOTE=LacLaBicheNS;1815914]No I said I was Metis.

You really dont make any sense. I don't know what you are referring to when you say "no I said I was Metis"... I honestly don't understand some of your reply's to me.

[pottymouth]

.

[pottymouth]

LLB...Spell check can only help him so much, his lack of reading and writing skills have followed him around through his numerous accounts........ Don't feel bad, many people don't understand him, but I'm sure he'll be gone again soon. Just ignore the troll!

[Jims71duster]

If people have no more class than to trash ABB via pm for shutting down a thread that obviously went off the rails, maybe a different mod should do it.
After all, i think the original question was lost and the trash talk started sometme after post #10 here! The rest of this thread has very littel if any decent content.:sign0161:
Cat

Cat, I had this same conversation and tried to contact the other mods to help out and none responded

[LacLaBicheNS]

LLB...Spell check can only help him so much, his lack of reading and writing skills have followed him around through his numerous accounts........ Don't feel bad, many people don't understand him, but I'm sure he'll be gone again soon. Just ignore the troll!

I have nothing against him, i just can't follow his thoughts in his replys because I can't see how he is relating things or what he's reffering too.

[Jims71duster]

You guys realize just because you have a metis card doesn't mean you have hunting rights,it is a long drawn out process to be recognized by the alberta goverment as a metis harvester which includes providing a family tree dating back to 1800,proving which community you belong to,those are just a couple of the many requirments

Lol,, if you have the card ,,you already gave proof of that or you would not have the card. The difference now is the province has stepped in and wants to limit the hunting to areas surrounding métis communities. That will all change with the court date on the 6 th. It will go back to the way it was 5 years ago. Not much will stop it now especially since the statement the federal government made about Metis two weeks ago.

[moose maniac]

Lol,, if you have the card ,,you already gave proof of that or you would not have the card. The difference now is the province has stepped in and wants to limit the hunting to areas surrounding métis communities. That will all change with the court date on the 6 th. It will go back to the way it was 5 years ago. Not much will stop it now especially since the statement the federal government made about Metis two weeks ago.

Lol no jim because you have a card does not give you hunting rights in the eyes of the provincial government,look up the powley case you can argue all you want I did it so I know what I am talking about,the lastest court ruling regarding metis and non status indians will be in the courts for many years to come it is far from over.

[Bowhunter102]

LLB...Spell check can only help him so much, his lack of reading and writing skills have followed him around through his numerous accounts........ Don't feel bad, many people don't understand him, but I'm sure he'll be gone again soon. Just ignore the troll! Who are you referring to? You sure talk big. You are just a Internet hero that thinks he is better than everyone. Then you woke up and reality kicked in.

[Jims71duster]

Lol no jim because you have a card does not give you hunting rights in the eyes of the provincial government,look up the powley case you can argue all you want I did it so I know what I am talking about,the lastest court ruling regarding metis and non status indians will be in the courts for many years to come it is far from over.

Read what I wrote, we are saying the same thing about the Alberta government. I am sure you are the only one who knows what they are talking about simply because you say so. My métis card is number 341 what's yours,,I've been in this game for a while.

[pottymouth]

Who are you referring to? You sure talk big. You are just a Internet hero that thinks he is better than everyone. Then you woke up and reality kicked in.

You sure seem to know a lot for a " new " member.

Oh I'm not just a Internet hero, I play one in real life, too!

Oh, and its follow, not fallow... Spell check doesn't correct punctuation , from your posts on another thread.

[Alberta Bigbore]

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac153/mojobass/threadclosed444.jpg




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