Alberta Bison Hunt

[Thunder/FX]

Should Alberta's wild Bison hunt remain a "Lottery"
Or should it be changed to a draw with priorities assigned to it to keep it "fair"?
As it is now, those who have been "selected" are able to be selected again the following year and every year after that while others may never get "selected" ever.

[Icefisher2885]

I think it should stay a lottery, otherwise it'll end up as just another unattainable tag in short order, but I don't think that successful applicants should be able to apply again, or at least should have to wait say 5 years before applying again.

[basketdeer]

For me is just a another draw, if you get draw draw from 7500 application well good for you .My son was draw on is first application he shot a nice cow about 1400 lbs ,and my wife was draw on her second application and we shot another cow 9 year old and about 1600 lbs ,but I was not has lucky after 6 years i am still waiting. So we never expected to be draw for a second time ,but I am sure one days they will change the system. If only 35 tags are issue every years so how many points are your going to need to ever get a chance to be able to get a tag?My bison hunting is know over ,i will not apply anymore not because i don't think i will not be draw,2 bison draw in this family was enough for us .good luck to all.

[Thunder/FX]

The draw would only prevent those who have been drawn, from being redrawn ahead of others who have not.

[6tmile]

Why even put in for the draw? If you want to hunt buffalo, just make sure there out of the chin river protected area and go hunt. No draw needed, no tag needed and no closed season. Bison is not a native species to Alberta.

[Matt L.]

Why even put in for the draw? If you want to hunt buffalo, just make sure there out of the chin river protected area and go hunt. No draw needed, no tag needed and no closed season. Bison is not a native species to Alberta.

Umm, what?!?:thinking-006: how do you figure they aren't a native species?

I think a five year wait before applying again is fair, take that long just to eat the damn thing :lol:

[ditch donkey]

It should be left as is. Put it on a priority system, and with 7500 people applying for 35 tags, requiring a priority of 50+, in the future is not unreasonable.

My boy is 18 months, I'm not sure when he can apply for a draw, but let's call it 12. He'll be 62 before his priority is high enough to have a chance of being drawn. And even then, he will be with a 1000 other 62 year olds with priority 50, applying for 35 tags, and it will be a random draw anyway.

[6tmile]

Umm, what?!?:thinking-006: how do you figure they aren't a native species?

I think a five year wait before applying again is fair, take that long just to eat the damn thing :lol:

Have a talk with Fish & wildlife. Out of the protected area they are like gophers, shoot at will if you feel inclined to do so.

[Icefisher2885]

It should be left as is. Put it on a priority system, and with 7500 people applying for 35 tags, requiring a priority of 50+, in the future is not unreasonable.

My boy is 18 months, I'm not sure when he can apply for a draw, but let's call it 12. He'll be 62 before his priority is high enough to have a chance of being drawn. And even then, he will be with a 1000 other 62 year olds with priority 50, applying for 35 tags, and it will be a random draw anyway.

This is exactly my thought - better to have in on a lottery and know that you have the same chance as anyone else, than to put it on priority and KNOW that if you don't get in on the first year you will NEVER have a chance at it. Hell, even if you do get in on the first year you still may never get it depending on how many others get in too.

[ditch donkey]

Have a talk with Fish & wildlife. Out of the protected area they are like gophers, shoot at will if you feel inclined to do so.

I don't think the Indians were chasing thousands of escaped farmed bison over head smashed in buffalo jump.

I have talker to a Fish and Wildlife officer. He told me what you said, outside of the protected areas, they are fair game, all year. When I asked him why, he said that to the best of his knowledge, they are not considered a game animal, and are not subject to hunting seasons.

But they are certainly native to Alberta.

[Ryry4]

I don't think the Indians were chasing thousands of escaped farmed bison over head smashed in buffalo jump.

I have talker to a Fish and Wildlife officer. He told me what you said, outside of the protected areas, they are fair game, all year. When I asked him why, he said that to the best of his knowledge, they are not considered a game animal, and are not subject to hunting seasons.

But they are certainly native to Alberta.

That would be correct.

[Ryry4]

Should Alberta's wild Bison hunt remain a "Lottery"
Or should it be changed to a draw with priorities assigned to it to keep it "fair"?
As it is now, those who have been "selected" are able to be selected again the following year and every year after that while others may never get "selected" ever.

Leave it be. Correct me if I'm wrong but once drawn I thought you could not apply again.

[6tmile]

How it was explained to me was at one time they roamed all over the southern part of alberta, (plains buffalo), then wiped out by white people and natives hunting. Then Alberta became a province,no buffalo, introduced plains buffalo into the woodlands and called them wood buffalo. Is it true? your guess is as good as mine, but that is how it was explained to me by fish and feathers.

[NBFK]

I was drawn in 2012 and I am fine with the way it is. There's no restrictions on how many times you can hold the tag.

[Thunder/FX]

You can apply each and every year.
It IS POSSIBLE to get a tag every year (highly unlikely but possible)

[Thunder/FX]

I was drawn in 2012 and I am fine with the way it is. There's no restrictions on how many times you can hold the tag.

would you feel this way if you were not drawn?

[Rigby]

The draw would only prevent those who have been drawn, from being redrawn ahead of others who have not.

Exactly!!!! This is how all the lotteries should work.

[Thunder/FX]

Exactly!!!! This is how all the lotteries should work.

???

[NBFK]

would you feel this way if you were not drawn?

I would feel the same. If a guy draws it multiple times good on him. What drives me nuts are the people who pull these tags and don't go. I heard of a guy last year who drew a goat tag and didn't even buy the tag. I also heard of multiple people who drew bison and had no intention of going. Make the price of the draw the tag amount and have it refunded to unsuccessful applicants. Maybe this will weed out most of the squeaky wheels who won't even go on these hunts.

That's just my opinion. I was told by a friend why bother applying you will never get drawn..... My thoughts are someone has to get drawn! I will apply for as long as I can.

[Thunder/FX]

Great points
Thank you for your honesty
Thunder

[walking buffalo]

How it was explained to me was at one time they roamed all over the southern part of alberta, (plains buffalo), then wiped out by white people and natives hunting. Then Alberta became a province,no buffalo, introduced plains buffalo into the woodlands and called them wood buffalo. Is it true? your guess is as good as mine, but that is how it was explained to me by fish and feathers.

The history fo Bison in Alberta is not a guess. It just takes some reading.

True, Plains bison were extripated from southern Alberta, the Northern limit of the historical range. Some Bison from the captive herd from Elk Island were translocated to Wood Buffalo National Park.

But the Woods Bison has always existed in the Northern half of the province. My Great grandfather shot some on the farm near Andrew in the 1920's. There are isolated herds of pure Woods bison today outside of the protected area.

The reason why Bison outside of the protected area are not considered "Wildlife" is a related to a decision regarding cattle and agriculture. TB was introduced to wild bison from cattle. The cattle industry needs a TB free status for economic and human health reasons. So the decision has been made to leave bison as an unprotected species in order to allow for complete extripation if desired.

Another part of the reasoning behind leaving Bison as an unprotected species is the possibility that Woods and Plains Bison have interbred. This postulation as a wildife management protocal requires a decision that crossbreeds are not desired. The basis of this concept is scientifically flawed. Plains and Woods bison are NOT separate species, or even Sub-species. They are an Ecotype. Phenological variances are exhibited due to environmental conditions, not genetics, as shown in a study of the captive Bison herd that used to live in Banff National Park.


BTW, I voted NO. Leave the draw as is, except for perhaps a change to make it a once in a lifetime draw.

[BrownTrout]

I don't think the Indians were chasing thousands of escaped farmed bison over head smashed in buffalo jump.

I have talker to a Fish and Wildlife officer. He told me what you said, outside of the protected areas, they are fair game, all year. When I asked him why, he said that to the best of his knowledge, they are not considered a game animal, and are not subject to hunting seasons.

But they are certainly native to Alberta.

At our hunting course we were told of these bison. The F&W representative said these were hybrids of wood and plains bison, which makes them unable to reproduce. That's why you can hunt them. They aren't apart of sustaining the population.

Edit: ^^^only what we were told in class
But bison are native.

[mcreg]

I was fortunate enought to get drawn the first year it was offered and since then I have not re-applied. My personal feeling are: I had my chance, let others have theirs!
Now I know not everyone thinks this way and there is nothing wrong with that.
Good luck to all who "throw their name in the hat". It most certainly is one of my most memorable hunts.

[Rocks]

With the slim chances of being drawn, this should be a once in a lifetime draw.

[Tundra Monkey]

True, Plains bison were extripated from southern Alberta, the Northern limit of the historical range. Some Bison from the captive herd from Elk Island were translocated to Wood Buffalo National Park.

But the Woods Bison has always existed in the Northern half of the province. My Great grandfather shot some on the farm near Andrew in the 1920's. There are isolated herds of pure Woods bison today outside of the protected area.

Interesting side note. Wood Bison can not be imported to the United States. However...the one's out of the Wood Bison National Park can be once they step out of the park.....cuz they ain't "pure" Wood Bison. Planned or Govt. screw up....pick your camp.

I would change it to the lottery system like they use in Nevada. Essentially if you put in on the first year you get one chance in the hat. Second year your name goes in 2 squared plus the year you're putting in so it's in there 5 times. If you are on year 12 your name would be in 145 times. Ask RyRy how he liked it :47b20s0:

I don't like the true lottery system. I've been putting in for Bison here since I was 16. Other than a few years at school I haven't missed it so call it around 20 times...maybe a few more. In that time a guy that works at ENR (our fish cops) has drawn 4 times :rolleyes: Worst part of it all is he can walk into a band office and get a tag for free......but excercises his right to hop on a $50 tag that many are after :sign0161:


And ya...you don't want TB infected animals near your cattle!!!!

[walking buffalo]

At our hunting course we were told of these bison. The F&W representative said these were hybrids of wood and plains bison, which makes them unable to reproduce. That's why you can hunt them. They aren't apart of sustaining the population.

Edit: ^^^only what we were told in class
But bison are native.


I hope you were dreaming of the hunt while in class and misheard the F&W representative.

[KCL]

With the slim chances of being drawn, this should be a once in a lifetime draw.

X2

[double gun]

I think it should stay a lottery, ...but I don't think that successful applicants should be able to apply again...

X2

[357xp]

I think it should stay a lottery, otherwise it'll end up as just another unattainable tag in short order, but I don't think that successful applicants should be able to apply again, or at least should have to wait say 5 years before applying again.

Yep, or maybe even wait 10 years.

[Tundra Monkey]

I can't fall into the once in a lifetime thing for em'. There is lots of them.

If I put my 15 yr old son in and he draws he could never do it again. Not cool.

We have a once in a lifetime grizz tag up here but you can buy it over the counter every year till ya kill one or forget to take your tag back. I'm cool with that. Make sure it's a very mature bear before ya take it. Still, a fair number of guys take the first one they see cuz it's a bit of a chore to get where they live......but outfitter's can't hunt them and there is no shortage of them in there.

I know that would not work down there as you have so many people but I really like the Nevada system I already mentioned. A lottery is "fair" but it should be redefined to give guys that have been putting in for an extended time a "better" chance.

I believe that there was a thread about guys burning that tag as they got ansy as it but it can be a boatload of work.......or ya could get lucky and see one from the truck.

[Donny Bear]

I have been drawn and my son

It should be once in a life time but until they make that rule I will keep applying and as with my first tag get a youth partner to come along and harvest the animal.

If I am ever drawn again

But I have said it should be once in a life time and My Sons hunt was better than me shooting one could ever be as was the hunt with the young lady we took the following year!

[oldgutpile]

I have also been drawn, and Yes, I continue to apply. Not to appear the game-hog, but it is a very unique hunt that I would gladly do again. The "buddy-tag" rule, makes it where I can choose who to share the hunt with. It's all about opportunities.
Stop and think about the current moose hunting scenarios in some zones. I was applying in WMU 400 for moose, until I hit priority 10. At that point, there were 200 applicants ahead of me with priority, in an area where they were allocating 20 bull tags per year. Doing the math, that meant potentially another ten years of applying, while at the same time any new hunters even thinking about applying, have so many ahead of them with priority, they stand a chance of never getting drawn in their lifetime.
The lottery system is like the "faint-hope" clause of the the hunting world. At least you are on equal terms with everyone else and you could get drawn. Some current zones and tags under our present systems, leave zero hope for newbies to ever receive a tag.

[savagencounter]

With the very small amount of tags it defiantly needs to be once in a lifetime. There was already a few drawn twice. witch is bull****.

[IHUNT]

Lots of free ranging buffalo in alberta that anbody can shoot without a tag.

[nekred]

in the BC draw I put in every year, along with my family... it is a ppure lottery, there how does this work when none of our family has been drawn, but outfitters, game guides, CO's and wildlife folks all have had mutiple success?

Too much room for abuse, I believe every draw should be on a priority so that it makes those who are unlucky a chance....

[Mutter87]

How about a system, Where every year you dont get drawn you get an extra entry next time? So after 5 years, on the 6th year you would be in the pool 6 times, while some would have 10 entries and others 1. then once you were drawn your other entries were removed. This would give an advantage to those not drawn year after year but not exclude those trying to get into it.

I hope I explained it right.

Mutter87 - 10 tickets in the draw (10 years unsuccessfully drawn
Joeschmo - 5 entries in the draw (5 years unsuccessfully drawn)
etc
etc....

Prize = 1 bison tag

This seems like it would keep it fair yet give those not drawn an extra chance.

edit : Maybe all tags should use this system, Get rid of that 15 year wait for Moose.

[Jamie Black R/T]

i think it should remain a lottery but be changed to a once in a lifetime tag...you get drawn you are no longer allowed to apply.

[.300ultramag]

No one needs to tell me how dumb this is, I am already well aware, my hunting partner drew bison in the Pink Mountain area of BC in the January season here in BC.

Completely random odds, roughly 30:1, so in Alberta terms, one draw every 30 years.

He talked to a couple other people and they convinced him that the odds of getting an animal compared to the cost of fuel and the cold temperatures was not worth trying to get a trip together.

The group we hunt with was so excited that we already had everything lined up, and he elected to not even buy the tag.

Long story short, lottery draw or preference point, the cost of applying should equal the cost of the hunt, which is refundable if you don't draw, putting up a grand just to throw your name in the hat weeds out the zeros from the heroes.

A 5 dollar draw application keeps people putting in for things that they don't really want, and before everyone jumps on my back for saying it should never be about money or how much it costs, or its only a rich mans game and all that BS, just think about it, most guys have more than one gun, 3 camo suits for all the different types of weather, a half a paycheck worth of optics, and burns a grand or two in gas in the fall.

[NBFK]

The coveted 438 sheep tag isn't once in a life time no? So why does this lottery draw take so much flack. 438 has 5 tags over 3 seasons. I can't remember the applicant number but it's fairly high. Throw your name in and cross your fingers. She's a lottery boys best of luck to all. It just seems like there's a lot of people saying poor me I haven't got drawn. Well poor me I want a booner ram off the mine but I still haven't been drawn......

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

:D I Recieved the prized draw tag several years ago...I know of a hunter that recieved tags two years in a row...wish it was me...luck of the draw..its a lotto guys...

Neil

[Ronji]

Lots of free ranging buffalo in alberta that anbody can shoot without a tag.
Saw 3 bison west of Rocky in 2009. F&W figured they had escaped, and nobody reported them.

[HyperMOA]

How about a system, Where every year you dont get drawn you get an extra entry next time? So after 5 years, on the 6th year you would be in the pool 6 times, while some would have 10 entries and others 1. then once you were drawn your other entries were removed. This would give an advantage to those not drawn year after year but not exclude those trying to get into it.

I hope I explained it right.

Mutter87 - 10 tickets in the draw (10 years unsuccessfully drawn
Joeschmo - 5 entries in the draw (5 years unsuccessfully drawn)
etc
etc....

Prize = 1 bison tag

This seems like it would keep it fair yet give those not drawn an extra chance.

edit : Maybe all tags should use this system, Get rid of that 15 year wait for Moose.

So instead of 9100 applicants for 50 tags there would be 200000 applicants for 50 tags; and it grows every year. Even with 50 tags per person they still may not get drawn. With your system 1 individual has the possibility to get several tags as well. You throw in your $3 and pray. Like others have said, the real travesty is the people drawn and don't purchase their tag. They should be banned completely from the Alberta draw system.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Saw 3 bison west of Rocky in 2009. F&W figured they had escaped, and nobody reported them.
:D. Legally that's open season in Alberta
Know a guy by cold lake that shot one in his garden legally with his bow.

Neil

[Elkhunt]

X2

3x

[Brent_reid]

Sorry guys I have never applied for this but look aw some when do you apply is it a part of the reg draws?

[HunterDave]

Are those things even any good eating? Someone told me that the Natives won't even bother with them because they taste so bad. Is that true or just a myth?

[Ultimate Predator]

Keep it a lottery that said were the hell is my TAG!!!!!

[Weatherbyguy]

Hearing about how unfair the draws are in Alberta is getting annoying im on year 8 waiting for my moose draw im not complaining and 8 years for antelope as well still not complaining

[crownb]

i think it should remain a lottery but be changed to a once in a lifetime tag...you get drawn you are no longer allowed to apply.

100 percent agreed

[dale7637]

Are those things even any good eating? Someone told me that the Natives won't even bother with them because they taste so bad. Is that true or just a myth?

They are very tasty.

I am not sure why the natives don't take them.

[riden]

They are very tasty.

I am not sure why the natives don't take them.

Me neither.

I was moose hunting by boat on the Peace and some natives passed us as we were heading back to the trucks. While we were out I saw a small herd of elk. I asked the natives about the elk and they saw them too. I asked why they didn't shoot one and they said "..do they taste good?"

It sure seems a lot of natives are moose only hunters.

[Mutter87]

So instead of 9100 applicants for 50 tags there would be 200000 applicants for 50 tags; and it grows every year. Even with 50 tags per person they still may not get drawn. With your system 1 individual has the possibility to get several tags as well. You throw in your $3 and pray. Like others have said, the real travesty is the people drawn and don't purchase their tag. They should be banned completely from the Alberta draw system.

No, Once an Individual got a tag then his number would be removed. It would give those waiting a slight advantage.

[Don K]

Got drawn first year of the hunt. I can't wait to get drawn again!

[HoagieAB]

Soooooo.....the bison I saw when bear hunting North of Peace River 2 yrs ago.........should have been on the bbq? FML......

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Soooooo.....the bison I saw when bear hunting North of Peace River 2 yrs ago.........should have been on the bbq? FML......


:D As long as it wasnt on private land...



Neil

[waterninja]

Lots of free ranging buffalo in alberta that anbody can shoot without a tag.
have done some extensive research on the "free roaming" bison that are out of the protected or tag only zones and it gets complicated. say your hunting whitetail in 252 and you come upon a bison. chances are that it has escaped from elk island or a private breeder. that animal is now considered stray livestock and is protected. your supposed to contact a brand inspector or the rcmp to examine the animal before you shoot it. (good luck with that).

personally i would find it hard not to harvest a free ranging bison out of the protected zones unless it had a visible ear tag.

[bison]

At our hunting course we were told of these bison. The F&W representative said these were hybrids of wood and plains bison, which makes them unable to reproduce. That's why you can hunt them. They aren't apart of sustaining the population.

Edit: ^^^only what we were told in class
But bison are native.
That F&W representative doesn't know his A"" from a hole in the ground.
Plains and Wood bison interbreed readily and the resulting offspring are fully capable of reproducing.;)

From a bison rancher.

[bison]

For me is just a another draw, if you get draw draw from 7500 application well good for you .My son was draw on is first application he shot a nice cow about 1400 lbs ,and my wife was draw on her second application and we shot another cow 9 year old and about 1600 lbs ,but I was not has lucky after 6 years i am still waiting. So we never expected to be draw for a second time ,but I am sure one days they will change the system. If only 35 tags are issue every years so how many points are your going to need to ever get a chance to be able to get a tag?My bison hunting is know over ,i will not apply anymore not because i don't think i will not be draw,2 bison draw in this family was enough for us .good luck to all.

Hard to believe.
I never seen a bison cow over 1300 lbs yet.;)

[BigRackLover]

I think it should stay a lottery, otherwise it'll end up as just another unattainable tag in short order, but I don't think that successful applicants should be able to apply again, or at least should have to wait say 5 years before applying again.

It should be once in a lifetime lottery.

[ishootbambi]

It should be once in a lifetime lottery.

x1000. seems the only one they got right was the mountain goat...after the first year of course....

[elkoholik]

I believe it should be a once once in a lifetime draw as well as goat until the population has an extended range and is stable and large enough to be in a standard draw like the other animals.

[Thunder/FX]

Bring it up again please

[Roughneck Country]

they should have preference points for these types of draws where every year when you put in you get an exponential amount on ie, 1st year 1 entry, second year 4 entries third year you get 9 entries etc...

Would reward guys who are long time applicants but give first time applicants a shot a pulling a tag still

[Thunder/FX]

No matter how many times I read the reasons to leave it as is, I just don't get how it would not be better to remove the ability to apply once drawn. It could only improve odds slightly and only very slightly. But would remove any chance of hard feelings when someone is drawn more than once.
This is not like lotto 649. You only get one chance a year. You cannot even buy more chances.
This is a chance to hunt the greatest original big game animal of this province.
If I were to be drawn I would not apply again for myself.
Time to move aside and let others enjoy the thrill.

[Jamie Black R/T]

No matter how many times I read the reasons to leave it as is, I just don't get how it would not be better to remove the ability to apply once drawn. It could only improve odds slightly and only very slightly. But would remove any chance of hard feelings when someone is drawn more than once.
This is not like lotto 649. You only get one chance a year. You cannot even buy more chances.
This is a chance to hunt the greatest original big game animal of this province.
If I were to be drawn I would not apply again for myself.
Time to move aside and let others enjoy the thrill.
Well said....one of these years you or I will get drawn and a big old bull will fall when a lever 45-70 barks!

[Thunder/FX]

Yes Jamie! One day...

[Red Bullets]

How it was explained to me was at one time they roamed all over the southern part of alberta, (plains buffalo), then wiped out by white people and natives hunting. Then Alberta became a province,no buffalo, introduced plains buffalo into the woodlands and called them wood buffalo. Is it true? your guess is as good as mine, but that is how it was explained to me by fish and feathers.

Read this. Although it was written along time ago(1886) it is an accurate accounting of the great herds and their demise in the States and in Canada.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17748/17748-h/17748-h.htm

[elkfriend]

[QUOTE=Rocks;1832082]With the slim chances of being drawn, this should be a once in a lifetime draw.[/QUOTE

x2

[huntinstuff]

I've had numerous encounters with bison while guiding.

None of my hunters would shoot.

I plan on going and shooting a bison with my son next year since he got a moose draw this year.

I'd say the biggest reason guys don't hunt bison is the cost factor. And the effort.

Fly in, spike camp, fly out with meat. Close to $3400. But, it's a great hunt and it's right under your nose.

[Mikeham]

Hunting bison west of 35 isn't much of a challenge. Easy to find a half dozen within sight of the Zama road in half an hour. Eating grass in pot hole dugouts under the snow. Not really fun to hunt, actually. The real challenge is quartering and removing the a animal through the snow.

Been there!