Doe hunting question.

[openfire]

Hey guys,
Last season was my first, I went out with a friend and he had a great shot at a large Doe but just when I thought he was going shoot, two fawns came out from the trees and started following.
He didn't take the shot and I didn't think twice about it. Seems legit.
But later, when I was talking with some other hunting buddies, they all said they would have taken the shot.
I was kind s shocked.

My question is, is that cool?
What do you guys think about shooting Does with fawns?

Sorry if this question has been posted before... I couldn't find one.
And I blame any typos on my iPhone.

[philintheblank]

To each his own, I passed up a lot of does this past season, but I also shot one the last day of the season, it was a yearling no fawn in sight and I needed to fill the freezer.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Not my thing personally....but perfectly legal, have to use your personal moral compass to answer the question for yourself.

LC

[Alberta Bigbore]

I like to shoot does... but wont take one that has a yearling or two in tow..

Usually does get turned into sausage and specialty meats in this household

[Vingiu]

^^^ Likewise, myself. I couldn't do that - I'd feel as though I actually killed two deer, but only collected one of them. Besides, I'd rather take a buck anyway :)

Michael

[Smokinyotes]

I guess if there are a lot of deer in the area it doesn't really matter. If deer numbers are down then I believe that we all need to be protecting the does to get the numbers back up. The winter before last killed off a lot of deer and where we hunt we have really noticed that the numbers are way down. I was surprised last year that many areas that had severe winter kills were still open for supplemental tags.

[coppercrazy]

If there's fawns in tow, let er go. I think I'm getting soft the older I get, I try not to shoot a doe with fawn or fawns on her. But that's just me. Copper

[338Bluff]

Simple dilemma. Shoot one of the fawns. Easier to pack and tastes great. Doe will have another one next year. I should note that I'm talking about a late season fawn, not a spotted one. You want to have enough venison to make it worthwhile.

A doe feeding all by herself is not always a dry doe. Mistake many will make if they hunt long enough.

If the point is to always shoot a buck what makes that a better 'trophy'? If it (buck) is just a 2-3 old, it is not necessarily a smarter deer than an old doe.

[waterhaulerhunter]

For my mule doe this year their was a group 15+ does with lots of fawns that were always together. When i shot mine i watched the group for 15 min to try and find a dry one but the one i shot ended up not being dry. With a group this size i was not to worried about it, but normally i wouldn't shoot one with a fawn directly in tow. I went shed hunting the other day in the same area and the heard looked healthy as ever even with all the snow!

[Dave the Demon]

personally its against my ethics, now as mentioned it is bound to happen if you hunt long enough, taking a doe with an unseen fawn. Its just for me that as much as i like taking does and keeping numbers in check, those younger animals need the opportunity to grow. If its a young buck he may very well be the next world record if given the proper chance. if a young doe she may give birth to the next world record. if they are still with the mother they probably still need something from her, and thus killing her will drop their potential.

[Dacotensis]

Ha ha, where's duffy for this conversation?:)

Look, do you like to eat deer meat? I do.
I have shot does in the past.
These past couple years I have not as the deer numbers are low in the areas I hunt. That is my own personal management.
The next guy who comes along might shoot the doe or fawn I just let walk to breed again.
The next guy might also shoot a small buck that I just passed on to let grow.
Given a option and need, want whatever. I would shoot a fawn that was with the doe. But then I hold out for a big buck till almost the last day.
I never killed a deer this year as I shot a moose early in November.
If I needed the meat I would have shot a doe.

[HunterDave]

I'll be brutally honest. When I was working and I only had a certain number of days (sometimes only one or two), if it was brown it was going down, I was putting meat in the freezer. Now that I have a whole month to hunt I have the luxury of picking and choosing and I pay a lot more attention to what the impact of taking a particular deer is. Generally I'll wait for a big old dry doe with no fawn but I remember where I once was and I don't hold it against anyone for doing it differently. Everyone's situation is different.

I figure that by November the fawn are weined anyway. The only thing that they are lacking in is smarts. I don't think that two fawns left on their own is necessarily a death sentence for them, just not the ideal situation for them.

[last minute]

My question is, is that cool?
What do you guys think about shooting Does with fawns?
SURE thing i dont see a problem with it .

when I was talking with some other hunting buddies, they all said they would have taken the shot.
I was kind s shocked.
Welcome to the real world .Some hunters will shoot and some wont


I figure that by November the fawn are weined anyway. The only thing that they are lacking in is smarts. I don't think that two fawns left on their own is necessarily a death sentence for them, just not the ideal situation for them. WELL SAID x2 agreed

[bdub]

I usually shoot the fawns. Yum. If you want to keep numbers higher it makes sense to shoot the fawns rather than a producing doe. Ethically it doesn't matter, fawn mortality without a the mother isn't much different I don't think.

[omega50]

Hey guys,

But later, when I was talking with some other hunting buddies, they all said they would have taken the shot.
I was kind s shocked..

And if you had taken the shot- those same guys would have slagged you for doing it.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
You made a snap decision- personally I would do the same if I had seen the fawns.

I shot a lone doe once many years ago. I start gutting it and then I see the fawn move in the bushes behind me -watching me gut his mom.

[Andrzej]

I would take fawn or fawns if they are big enough and they would be late in the season.

Now Doe has better chance to fatten for winter and as proven breeder will have offspring next spring.

We let four tags for MD Does (draw) this year go to waste as there was visible decrease in their # in this WMU.

Do what feels right within law.

[slipperyeel]

In my opinion, ethically it is not right at all to take an animal that is caring for young. Plus it will effect the population much more because the offspring will likely die. I think your buddy made an excellent decision, My buddy hunted hard in to the high country and let a huge nanny goat go because it was caring for a kid. He went home empty handed but was much happier about the hunt.

[brettk.]

Shooting a doe with fawn in tow just doesn't sit well with me personally, I know and hunt with guys who wouldn't think twice, their perogative. I certainly look really hard when I have a whitetail doe in sight who has seen me and isn't running right away. 9 times out of 10 if I look hard I see a fawn hiding in the sticks not far behind her. My brother-inlaw shot a doe a few years back and when he found her dead in the trees her fawn was laying on top of her, he said it was the most gut wrenching thing he had experienced hunting and will never shot a doe again.

[Bushmaster]

Its pretty sad at this time of year to see the fawns trying to look out for themselves....saw some yesterday. For some reason, they seemed to be alone and looking very forlorn, trying to cope with all the snow.

That said, its legal, so.....

[bagwan]

Contrary to most of the thoughts on survival a late season fawn according to my observations will usually survive especially in Muleys as they just stay with the group. Some even get bred in the late rut. I have seen some small white tail does that were bred before a year old as well. The Whiteys were in town a lot in the first part of Jan as they were having problems with deep snow and one fawn in particular was by itself and eating the tips of our mugo pines. First year that has happened. I'm like Dave a number of years ago meat prevailed. Now I definitely wait for a dry one but where I live and hunt as well as retirement dictates that. To the Op keep hunting with your buddy. He sets a good standard.

[rhuntley12]

Its pretty sad at this time of year to see the fawns trying to look out for themselves....saw some yesterday. For some reason, they seemed to be alone and looking very forlorn, trying to cope with all the snow.

That said, its legal, so.....

I saw what appeared to be 3 yesterday, all pretty small running around field with no idea where they were going. Didn't see any bigger ones that might have been seperated.

That said I'd find it hard to shoot a doe that had young ones around, I've heard of horror stories about the fawns hanging around while gutting the doe. I'd opt for a doe that was alone myself if just trying to fill the freezer.

[cds]

If the fawns are 1yr old or she is a dry doe i will shoot her.:sign0161:

[bulletman]

I haven't shot a doe or (anterless) animal for quite a few years now. it seems like all the ones we run into are in twos or threes so I would be shooting a mother. I was under the impression the deer numbers were way down, so even though I had a few chances I let them walk. Maybe leave one for a beginner who has never shot anything.

[airbornedeerhunter]

To each their own but I won't shoot does that have fawns in tow. I did shoot one time years and years ago when I first started deer hunting and I will never do it again. :( Bucks and single does only for me.

[jacenbeers]

I dont think I would be able to pull the trigger if I saw a fawn with a doe. There are so many does out there, I don't want to shoot one that has her children with her. I would wait for one that was dry. Last year was my first year hunting in Alberta and so I harvested what I could to fill the freezer. Both were dry whitetail does. In the 2013 hunting season, I will probably focus more on harvesting a buck and will only drop a doe if the season is almost over and I have not harvested anything else.

[Mark]

Simple dilemma. Shoot one of the fawns. Easier to pack and tastes great. Doe will have another one next year. I should note that I'm talking about a late season fawn, not a spotted one. You want to have enough venison to make it worthwhile.

A doe feeding all by herself is not always a dry doe. Mistake many will make if they hunt long enough.

If the point is to always shoot a buck what makes that a better 'trophy'? If it (buck) is just a 2-3 old, it is not necessarily a smarter deer than an old doe.

I agree completely.

[Stinky Coyote]

take a fawn, if you have supplemental take em both, mom will bring another pair around next year, good eats...think of them as giant rabbits, then the work per lb of meat will be worth it ;)

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

take a fawn, if you have supplemental take em both, mom will bring another pair around next year, good eats...think of them as giant rabbits, then the work per lb of meat will be worth it ;)


:D Here on the Camp Wainwright Base SRD suggest that you shoot the fawns before doe's as a management factor...fawns have a high mortaility rate over winter ..where older doe's have the skills to survive...

something to think about...

Personally I dont like the idea, It just doesnt feel right to me...however I didnt look at it like its just a big rabbit lol...makes sence and we need management here now...to bring the deer back..

.After all the CWD culling Mother nature stepped in and did it her way now numbers are drastically down..and this year there already is winter kill..
JMHO
Neil

[openfire]

Wow, a lot of response.
Thanks. Great to hear what people think.

[buckman]

"Culling" a Doe is a personal choice cant see it as "hunting"very little skill or challenge, and no satisfaction apart from the meat.If you must take one"hunt" for a dry old doe,not that easy then and somewhat more of a hunt. or take a Fawn,leave the healthy young breeders alone. Just the way I see things.

[catnthehat]

I normally don't hunt until late in the season up here fpor der, so have no problems taking either a doe or a fawn if the situation is right.
However, early in the season I won't , but if a doe has two fawns with here later in the season I am more likely to take one of the fawns.
Cat

[Katman]

so for the guys that will not shoot a doe and cite population concerns, would you say the same to those that put in for a cow draw? What do you think the fate is of a calf moose after a cow is taken? i think after waiting 3-5 years for a draw, results of who would shoot and when would change. just a thought.

[ceedub]

I can't bring myself to shoot a doe or a fawn, that's just me. My primary reason for the hunt is the chase and my love of the outdoors, although I eat what I shoot.

-Craig

[hal53]

There are some people out for the hunt, and some people out for the kill, that will not change. I have no issue what so ever with anyone taking game legally. I do have an issue with people filling late season supp. tags in an area where the herd has taken a hit because " I have to fill my freezer", that folks is horse hockey, an excuse.If you still think venison is cheaper than store bought...or you have to justify it to your significant other,:thinking-006: pretty lame. It has however been proven, that used correctly, the harvesting of Does does increase herd dynamics.
This is my opinion only
H.

[remmy300]

I think the doe season should be shut down in a lot of wmu's. There are a pile of zones in alberta where the deer population is super low. How does limiting the amount of buck tags if an area is on draw help increase the population. Last time I checked I didn't see a fawn fall out of a bucks *****.

When the numbers increase, open the doe season back up. I personally don't shoot does but if the population is there feel free.

[openfire]

People keep saying Does populations are down.
Just curious where do you get the numbers from?

[hal53]

People keep saying Does populations are down.
Just curious where do you get the numbers from?
driving across and thru the zones 365 days a year...

[remmy300]

I grew up just north and west of Calgary and currently live in GP. I drive an average of 5000 km a month up here. On a good day up here I might see 50 deer. I drive a lot of back roads and deal with landowners daily. The numbers are terrible. When I'm down at one of our farms down south the mule deer numbers are way down as well as whitetails in most areas. Our other farm is east of red deer along the red deer river. The md numbers out there are really low. I spent 2 weeks in November out there and seen less than half the numbers I usually see.

Go for a drive around the province and tell me what you see....

Very few zones have high deer numbers.

Where you get your numbers?

[Big Daddy Badger]

I will shoot a doe or a cow but I try to make sure that they are dry.

No point it making it easier for the yotes.

[hal53]

I will shoot a doe or a cow but I try to make sure that they are dry.

No point it making it easier for the yotes.
this is the tricky part....how do you make sure it's dry???...don't want a war here, just wondering?

[338Bluff]

I hunt for the meat, friendship, and satisfaction of a good hunt. I prefer vension to many other meats. It is healthy. The day that I only hunt for a deer with bigger antlers than the next guy I will hang er up.

Eating a 5 year old rutted up buck is not something I want to undertake lightly...but I will chow down when I do get one (garlic can perform miracles)

The whole deer population argument is only relevant to what someone feels the norm should be. 5-6 years ago we had an amazing number of animals. Hunters have been spoiled.

If SRD feels antlerless harvest is warranted then its likely warranted. Mule deer and whitetails are not endangered last time I checked.

I'm selective on when and where I will harvest a supplemental deer. The older I get the less keen I am to fill the tags. I will not think the less of any other hunter for choosing to harvest a doe or fawn. If SRD has a season then that is good enough for me. There are still more deer out and about than 30 years ago.

[1899b]

There are some people out for the hunt, and some people out for the kill, that will not change. I have no issue what so ever with anyone taking game legally. I do have an issue with people filling late season supp. tags in an area where the herd has taken a hit because " I have to fill my freezer", that folks is horse hockey, an excuse.If you still think venison is cheaper than store bought...or you have to justify it to your significant other,:thinking-006: pretty lame. It has however been proven, that used correctly, the harvesting of Does does increase herd dynamics.
This is my opinion only
H.

Has nothing to do with it being cheaper. Its a true organic product with no artificial steroids and we eat all that we harvest. If I am going to be out there anyway, I'm going to fill my freezer with the best meat nature can provide. Legally.

[hal53]

I hunt for the meat, friendship, and satisfaction of a good hunt. I prefer vension to many other meats. It is healthy. The day that I only hunt for a deer with bigger antlers than the next guy I will hang er up.

Eating a 5 year old rutted up buck is not something I want to undertake lightly...but I will chow down when I do get one (garlic can perform miracles)

The whole deer population argument is only relevant to what someone feels the norm should be. 5-6 years ago we had an amazing number of animals. Hunters have been spoiled.

If SRD feels antlerless harvest is warranted then its likely warranted. Mule deer and whitetails are not endangered last time I checked.

I'm selective on when and where I will harvest a supplemental deer. The older I get the less keen I am to fill the tags. I will not think the less of any other hunter for choosing to harvest a doe or fawn. If SRD has a season then that is good enough for me. There are still more deer out and about than 30 years ago.
just wondering...how many days a year do you spend where you hunt???

[338Bluff]

just wondering...how many days a year do you spend where you hunt???

I live there:)

[hal53]

I live there:)
good deal, that is my point, in areas the herd can handle it ,no problem, in other areas , not so good. You live there, you see them everyday, you know the population ups and downs, many don't,
Have a good one!!:happy0180:

[KegRiver]

When my dad came to the Peace country in the 1930s he saw herds of Deer in the hills along the river. He described it as looking like herds of cattle.

When I was growing up, even seeing a Deer track was a big deal.

The first herd of Deer I ever saw was at Buck Lake, southwest of Edmonton.

These days I see a herd or two or three almost every day. And I know, that for every Deer I see there is at least ten nearby that I didn't see.

It's looking like this year will be one of the worst for Deer in my lifetime. But I know that populations swell and die off in cycles. Maybe we won't have any Deer to hunt for a while. Maybe there will be more then ever next year.

In the end, I will survive and so will the Deer.

[Justin Black]

If you still think venison is cheaper than store bought...or you have to justify it to your significant other, pretty lame.
H.

It can easily be cheaper than store bought. Just depends how much work your willing to put in.

1) Own and hunt with one rifle (easier said than done).
2) Hand load or use economically priced ammo.
3) Skip the ATV and drag it haul it out yourself.
4) Cut it and wrap it yourself.
5) If possible bank your OT and then get paid to hunt!

Do this and your venison will come out much cheaper than your store bought meat.

[Dunezilla]

It can easily be cheaper than store bought. Just depends how much work your willing to put in.

1) Own and hunt with one rifle (easier said than done).
2) Hand load or use economically priced ammo.
3) Skip the ATV and drag it haul it out yourself.
4) Cut it and wrap it yourself.
5) If possible bank your OT and then get paid to hunt!

Do this and your venison will come out much cheaper than your store bought meat.

Sounds almost like me. For the most part I have been hunting with the same rifle for 28 years straight. Sometimes during a coupe of seasons for a day or 2 I used the 30-06.

[AB Starling]

It can easily be cheaper than store bought. Just depends how much work your willing to put in.

1) Own and hunt with one rifle (easier said than done).
2) Hand load or use economically priced ammo.
3) Skip the ATV and drag it haul it out yourself.
4) Cut it and wrap it yourself.
5) If possible bank your OT and then get paid to hunt!

Do this and your venison will come out much cheaper than your store bought meat.

I disagree. Licenses, fuel, optics, gear, lodging, clothing, time, food, it becomes expensive. It's still fun to get out.

[338Bluff]

I disagree. Licenses, fuel, optics, gear, lodging, clothing, time, food, it becomes expensive. It's still fun to get out.

price out venison at a specialty butcher and then redo the math. Venison, Elk, and Moose are very high in CLA, a heart healthy fatty acid. Beef can be just as good, but it would have to be grass finished (no grain).

If you don't golf it is about the same money....only you get to eat the ball.

Eating wild is good for you.

[wildcat111]

i have taken lots of does but if there are little ones with them they get to live another day, just the way i practice but everyone is different

[Moosetalker]

I will take Fawn's or Calf preferebly.

Besides best bait for a big buck is a hot doe :sHa_shakeshout:

[openfire]

Go for a drive around the province and tell me what you see....

Very few zones have high deer numbers.

Where you get your numbers?

I was not arguing I was just asking if there was a site or something to check out. :)

[Big Daddy Badger]

this is the tricky part....how do you make sure it's dry???...don't want a war here, just wondering?

Thats a fair question.

Can't absolutley all the time.

If you know the animals in your area and you take the time to observe them before you shoot you can sure reduce the odds though.

It is a lot easier to know when one has a fawn/calf than when one doesn't though.

It isn't perfect but... like I said....I try.

Most years... I ignore does anyway... and for that reason... I don't want to leave an orphan on its own.

[Jimboy]

SURE thing i dont see a problem with it .

Welcome to the real world .Some hunters will shoot and some wont


WELL SAID x2 agreed


no wonder we get a bad name , more fuel for anti,s with attitudes like that.

[catnthehat]

no wonder we get a bad name , more fuel for anti,s with attitudes like that.

Anti hunters do not care about who shoots what, except that everybody is shooting something.
If it's not a trophy hunter, it's a hunter shooting a doe or a fawn , doesn't matter to them, they protest against hunting ,period.
Cat

[last minute]

no wonder we get a bad name , more fuel for anti,s with attitudes like that.

really :snapoutofit: shoot don't shoot up to the person its simple math .:bad_boys_20:

[rem338win]

I find a good doe hunt satisfying. I've shot that years fawn and doe fawn pairs when tags are numerous. It's part I keeping good local populations as well.
Gotten a few "trophy" does now and again, the 200lb plus kind.
I think that the OP and his friend did the gentlemanly thing.

[Stinky Buffalo]

I don't think that two fawns left on their own is necessarily a death sentence for them, just not the ideal situation for them.

I take the same view. Like Copper said, I'm getting softer as I get older. ;)

Had a similar opportunity as the OP this season. Passed on it as well, and enjoyed the experience. :D

[flyguyd]

I always try my best to take a dry one.

Sometimes it works sometimes not. However a lone doe with two or more fawns i will not shoot

[GillieSuit]

I hunt bow season and rifle season so I am in the bush quite often as early as August 24th or 25th depending on the WMU. Fawns at this time of year often still have spots and are still nursing. In short they haven't been weened. Whitetails don't readily adopt fawns that have lost their mothers either. This is more prevalent in Mule Deer, but that being said my general rule of thumb is to not harvest does with fawns in August, September or October. A dry doe is fair game any time.

By November, most of the fawns are weened and travelling with the herds more and are gaining some independance so they should make the winter just fine if they happen to lose their Mom. The issue comes in areas where hunting pressure skews the breeding success to the second and third estrus. This creates late fawns which I have seen with spots and suckling in November. These fawns would have it pretty rough if their mother was harvested at that time.

So in the end for me it becomes a judgement call based on what I am seeing. Last year I harvested a dry doe and a yearling to fill my doe tags. The year before I took two mature dry doe's. Some say harvesting a mature doe can affect the herds ability to find food and sufficient bedding to make a hard winter, but I haven't studied that at all so I can't say either way.

Just my two cents.

Cheers.