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FiveO
03-15-2007, 02:01 PM
With the cash grabbing walleye draw coming up what are the thaughts? I think its setting a president for all future catch and keep lakes.

jrs
03-15-2007, 11:15 PM
:lol :lol

Now thats a slanted poll question if i've ever seen one. :rollin

RockyMtnx
03-16-2007, 11:10 AM
I wish some of you would actually see how much it costs to organize and run the draw system. Nobody is making any money on this one.

FiveO
03-16-2007, 12:16 PM
Please shed some light on the costs. The main thing is its a bs system they are setting a president for future catch and keep lakes.

Duffy4
03-16-2007, 01:12 PM
"cash grab????" What a joke, the money for the draw just covers the cost of the draw. The Government is getting no money from it, IBM is.

There was a very good presentation at the last AF&GA Conference, by the fisheries people, about the "walleye draw tag PILOT PROJECT" It was explained that if it works out in the future there may be some lakes with NO harvest, some with a draw tag and some with a slot limit.

The people with Fish & Wildlife do there best to manage the resourse for Albertans and provide some harvest opportunity. Thay are highly trained professionals. I know we sometimes have a different point of view of things and it is good to voice those opinions. However There sometimes seems to be a whole lot of "experts" sitting behind key boards giving their "expert advice" all over the net.

Robin

FiveO
03-16-2007, 03:47 PM
However There sometimes seems to be a whole lot of "experts" sitting behind key boards giving their "expert advice" all over the net.(Are you one of them?.)


Experts doing a good job?. Not to start a war but the current Walleye situation in certain lakes has destoyed the rest of the fishery and that i know first hand watching certain lakes Perch, Pike and burbot population take a Poop kicking.

AMEN FIVE O!!!
03-17-2007, 01:49 PM
been preachin' this to anyone who'll listen!!!
the draw is the biggest cow since the gun registry!!!
not only are they cashin' in, they are setting precedent for more and more pay-as-you-catch fisheries in this province!!!
mark these words!!! soon you'll have to pay extra for any fish you want to keep anywhere!!!
fishing's catching up to the expense level of golf. soon only the elite and "connected" will afford it and young families and lower income people will once again be hooped.
DON'T BUY WALLEYE TAGS!!!!!

Duffy4
03-17-2007, 02:40 PM
$10.00 a "cash grab"???????????????????

I don't see how a $10.00 fee is going to be a big revenue boost to the Alberta Gov't. We were told by F&W it was about the cost of the computer system for the draw process.

If you take a lake that was catch and release with NO KILL FISHING and provide an opportunity to keep a fish or three for a $10.00 fee it seems to me to be a posative step.

You can fear what "might" happen in the futrue if you like. I am going to get a walleye permit and look forward to having a nice special meal of walleye. Something I haven't eaten in some time.

Robin

jrs
03-17-2007, 09:35 PM
I so like the possibilities this may permit in the future. This would work well for sturgeon, possibly bull trout in some areas. I originally thought it was more of a cash grab but false prices were somehow posted on the internet. It said $25 per fish. When you have as many fisherman as Alberta and only so many lakes you have to implement new management ideas. Its still easy to get a feed of walleye down where i live (i still rarely do, i usually just keep whitefish) as the fishing pressures much lower than up closer to Calgary or Edmonton.
I'd eventually like to see a punch licence so to speak, where by you can for instance keep 15 walleye a season from a certain list of lakes and you punch the card when filled (they have similar program in northern Saskatchewan). Problem is lack of honesty within some fisherman.

Jebber6
03-17-2007, 09:48 PM
Don't buy walleye tags???? Don't buy hunting tags!!!!
Whats the difference???

packhuntr
03-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Unfortunatly not real informed on this, I mean, where do they intend for this to end up. There must be some sort of a plan taking shape here hey. I did apply last year, as 999, just to throw my money into the kitty. Anyone have any info here.

keep a strain on er.

FiveO
03-19-2007, 09:52 AM
It will set a president and as I said earlier it will change future catch and keep opportunities.
You have to worry how it will effect the future.

No cash in it for the Government?. Something smells fishy.

Adam
03-19-2007, 03:02 PM
The walleye draw is out for 2007. I know some people are quite against the theory of a draw system for fishing. The most common argument is that is sets a precedent to pay for catch and keep fishing, and is simply a cash cow. Iím not sure I agree with that philosophy. If anybody would like to expand on the rational behind that theory or other arguments against the draw system, Iíd like to hear it.

I donít mind the idea of a draw system for walleye. Right now there is a 0 limit. Some lakes have been identified to have some harvest. How else can SRD manage a very limited harvest?

Isnít keeping a couple of walleyeís better than none? If you donít want to participate in the draw, the limit still stays the same at 0.

I understand there may be different (some may view as better) solutions to managing a walleye harvest. Maybe going to an annual individual walleye limit of 10 (as a random number), like BC does for steelhead. Iím sure SRD, AFGA, TU, biologists, and others have provided input in how to manage limited harvests where feasible.

I donít think the government is always out to screw the common man. They try to deal with multiple conflicting priorities and multiple special interest groups to try and make decisions to deal with the situation at hand. At $3.04 to apply for a tag, I donít think this is much of a cash grab. If $3 bucks is what it takes for me to possibly keep a few walleye (and $10 to get the tag) so be it. It sure beats none.

A total of $13 is not much of a fishing expense when I consider my equipment, boat (canoe in my case), motor, gas to drive to my fishing locations, new fishing rod/reels, bait, food, beer, and all the other things I spend when go fishing.

What precedent is this setting. They under the right circumstances the gov't is willing to ease restrictions and allow harvesting of selected fish?? Wow, that doesn't sound too terrible.

I too see this as a possibility to transfer to bull trout, sturgeon or other currently protected fish under the right conditions. And too me, this is a good thing, not an evil plan by the government to privilge a few rich fisherman.

Adam

jrs
03-19-2007, 08:18 PM
Hey, if anyones going to complain about costs of fishing look at angling in other areas. For the diversity of opportunities and liberal (didn't mean to use the evil word their) harvest regs, we pay what? $24 a year or something like that? My extended family came from Europe and thought that was a joke, where they lived in Germany you had to belong to a fishing club and could fish one or two pieces of water on regular intervals (basically gravel pit flooded with trout thrown in). Costed thousands of dollars a year and was a sport only the very rich could afford. We have it pretty darn good. Even look at BC and some of the licence costs there. Worse for out of provincers but still not dirt cheap for residents. Think what you'd be willing to pay a year to go fishing before you quit. I know if licences went up to $200 a year tommorrow i'd still buy one. Still better than if my body ever degenerates enough for me to become a golfer. :lol
My opinion but just look around and realize we're going to have to forfeit some opportunities for angling to continue.

Dewie
03-19-2007, 09:35 PM
In the case of pigeon lake something has to be done. you can catch 500 fish a day and that is no joke. the fish are sick and are starving to death. but in the same breath if you opened it up to everyone your lake would be fished out in one year because of the amount of people that fish it being so close to Edmonton.

I think F&W left this lake to long without some kind of management. so the fact that they are doing something about it is good to me.

FiveO
03-20-2007, 09:42 AM
I agree that somthing needs to be done to get the balance back in the lakes. However the Tag system in my opinion is not the solution. Im sure there is a solution that other regions have adopted and been successful.
I like the idea of a catch and keep licence with annual limits for all species and included in these limits could be slot sizes. If you dont want to keep any fish then a regular licence for catch and release would ramain economical and still allow to keep fish in stocked trout lakes.

I have watched Lac Saint Anne change drastically since the closer of walleye. Perch fishing was up till four years ago fairly good meaning you could work for half a day and manage perch up to 1 lb and lots of small ones.
Pike fishing was excellent with lots in the 4-8 pound range and walleye fishing prior to being closed was awesome for qaulity size fish many over 5 pounds my personal best 29 1/2 released so i didnt weigh it.

In the summer i always catch my own shinners and the last few years there are way fewer shinners and almost no small perch, ling or pike scooped up in the minnow net.

Another idea would be to open Walleye for a season then close the entire lake for a few seasons to allow the balance to come back.

wildman
03-21-2007, 01:42 PM
ok.
i think everyone knows my stance on this.
allow me to expand on the reasoning...
generally most people in favor of the draw are very well-to-do with lots of money to put into hobbies and sports and that's cool....nothing more fun than a state of the art boat, truck, camper, fishing gear, sonar, etc., etc., etc...
i come from a BIG family. 6 siblings. as kids, the only thing my parents could afford to do for holidays was go fishing. back then camping was $3/night, etc., etc.
currently i know many young families with a few kids that fight to make ends meet and so on.
today gas is +0.99/L in the summer, camping averages $15-25/night, many places charge for wood, boat launch use, and gear and supplies aren't exactly cheap.
right now there is no problem picking spots where you can keep a few fish, teach kids responsible harvest, cook fresh fish on an open fire, etc. all part of the whole great outdoors experience, IMHO!!!!
when (not IF but WHEN) this draw concept explodes and increases in price, and it WILL, it'll be another expence to tack on.
i don't know about you, but i for one would hate to see the great tradition of fishing turn into another elitist sport like golf.
thanks for letting me vent.
cheers, gw

bearbait
03-23-2007, 01:18 PM
i just dont put in for the draw....ill travel to an open lake if i have to...i think you should only pay if your draw comes in!!!
just my opinion

Duffy4
04-03-2007, 04:15 PM
Read Trevor's info on the reason and purpose of the walleye draw "pilot project" and see if you can then understand and accept it.

Robin

FiveO
04-03-2007, 04:24 PM
No I can't accept it. Maybe SRD should stand back and take a look at what the original closure of ''collapsed" lakes and the effects of allowing perch, pike and bubot to remain open and now they are collapsed and walleye stunted. Perhaps they should take a look at the mess they have caused playing mother nature and focuss efforts on getting a natural balance back rather than looking for a pat on the back for so generously allowing a draw system.

wildman
04-04-2007, 09:26 AM
totally with ya' five0!!!
they eff'd up the lakes now they want to charge us to help fix it when they just eff it up again.
anyone who trusts how the gov't runs fish and game hasn't been paying attention.....

Rifle14
04-05-2007, 10:26 AM
If you want a natural balance with no interference from SRD, why don't we just close every lake you think is "out of balance" for 10 years to let nature work itself out. I'm sure everyone would go for that, and I don't doubt that the pressure on the other lakes would more than triple, crashing them as well. So maybe what we need is a ban on fishing to restore the "natural balance." See how insance that sounds? If people are around, and will be using the resource, someone's got to manage it, and SRD is trying. They may be failing in some areas (the allowing of 3 walleye from Slave last year was a BIG mistake) but at least they're trying.

parklander
04-06-2007, 10:20 AM
Fisheries management isn't rocket science - it's much more complex. The rocket scientists just have the laws of physics to contend with. Fisheries scientists have to grapple with the combination of the "laws" of nature and human behaviour all at once. Alberta is recognised as being on the leading edge of fisheries management science, particularly walleye management, primarily because we have such a high level of per waterbody fishing pressure (off the charts compared to most other provinces and states). Despite this extreme pressure, many collapsed walleye populations are recovering. F&W has to know what they're doing to pull that off! Now, there's a new problem, and that's trying to keep recovered populations from collapsing again, because the potential pressure is still there, catch rates are high and folk's perceptions and expectations are also high. Pigeon Lake is a perfect example of the dilemma of managing recovering fisheries. How do you maintain the sustainability of a walleye population that is within a short drive of over 2,000,000 people, of which likely 200,000 are fishermen with a taste for walleye? To make things more complex, Alberta has an open-access policy for angling, meaning that you can't restrict the numbers of fishermen on the water. The only thing to do is control intentional harvest at a level matched with fish production, knowing that catch and release will unintentionally kill fish also.

The fact that many of us refuse to grasp this simple supply and demand concept is evident by testimony of my friend the banker, who tells me that despite record high income levels, many Alberta families are financed to the hilt and just barely keeping up with the payments - one or two lost paycheques from bankruptcy.

Imagine managing your bank account when everyone in the family has access to the account, wants all their wishes fulfilled (and tells you that every chance they get), the demand to spend is vitrually unlimited, you only learn what they spend when you ask and even then its an estimate, your account balance and monthly pay amount is estimated plus or minus 50%, and every once in a while the Big Banker in the Sky pulls a switch and you lose a year's pay? Fun, huh? Sustainable? You'd better manage carefully!

I think F&W should have a Biologist-for-a-Day program. That would be a learning experience! Give those folks a break, guys. The only thing they're not doing well is taking each of us aside and explaining in detail what they're doing and why, allowing the armchair biologists to thrive. That said, they're only a phone call away...

gunslinger
04-10-2007, 08:02 AM
i fish pigeon lake alot and there right, the walleye you can catch is unbeleivable with 0 limit to keep, the fish in there are all around that 4 pound area, me and the wife put in for the draw and was lucky enough to get it, so when we went to pigeon we let the kids real in one fish each and keep it, was a great day on pigeon and finally we were allowed to take a walleye feast home.
if it was open with a sixe limit it woudlnt be long and it woudl be fished out for sure, you cant keep them off your hook, its a great catch and realease lake and now it has a bonus to it.
not sure of the quantity of tags that were giving out but im sure they are making it so it is manageable for the fish.

FiveO
04-10-2007, 03:30 PM
I have been fishing saint anne for over twenty years and never seen the pike and perch fishing so poor. Since the closure things are screwed. Walleye are plentifull but small not like befor the closure, there were alot fewer but alot bigger walleye and lots of perch and pike. The thing that ****'s me off the most is the kicking the perch and pike have taken. A guy showed me a confidential report on saint anne and his closing comments were the lake had walleye populations greater than 50 years ago.
So the walleye populations are like never before but at what cost to the rest of the species in the lake?.

Pigeon is the same deal with the perch and pike, the fishin has gone down hill.


Take the Utikima salvage net, SRD approved. I was there last week and the fish were at the bottom and very much alive. I am curious to know if the netters lobbied the government(SRD) and kicked back a certain % to the biologist for research funding? I fished Utikima in 2003 after a salvage net and same results fish were very much alive and very tasty.

Maybe SRD are a bunch of key board biologists that should get out of the office more.

happy perch fisher
04-10-2007, 09:55 PM
if it was opened with a limit of one it be fished out

Winch101
04-11-2007, 09:17 AM
I have read these posts with some interest .

The Real purpose and intention of provincial governments

like the one in alberta is take in revenue and reduce

all expenditures. When it comes to fishing ,alberta has copied manitobas gov,t stance to the letter .
Take a state like minnesota ,about the same population
as alberta, spends in excess of 10 million a year stocking walleyes . It is a put and take fishery , all revenues go back into the fishery not general revenue . The alberta gov't
will do all it can to avoid spending the money needed for anykind of major stocking programs. The southern alberta reservoir system is taylor made for that kind of program .
Now gov,t have to contend with the anti-everything crowd
By the way Manitoba has started a major walleye stocking
program in land bound lakes . I dont think anglers should mind paying for a fishery as long as the gov,t plays fair .
Ted Morton , hmmmm , he strikes me as a guy who's gonna save these fish , for what ; oh ya pollution !

I think we should buy as many tags as possible , bring this train wreck to its inevitable conclusion.
Crawling valley is a prime example , walleyes grow great
can you imagine if they opened it to general fishing , the line up at the boat launch would be back to Brooks .
Why arent they special licencing it , and stocking it
what are they growing those fish for ...
Do not post c&r arguements because walleyes are so far
down the fighting gamefish list , its not even worth mentioning . Stock large and smallmouth bass , they survive in Manitoba , oh ya costs money .
King Ralph drank and golfed , didnt fish , too bad...

SNAPFisher
04-11-2007, 12:49 PM
I do agree with you on the walleye stocking front Winch. It would be great to see this continue to ramp up. Interesting point on the bass. I don't know much about them including their cost in stocking and ability to survive stocking.

jrs
04-11-2007, 02:23 PM
Most of our southern reservoirs have great fishing without a stocking program. Natural reproduction is definetly the way to go. Stocking is extremely expensive for how many fish will survive to suitable size (if theres no fish there anyway its probably due to the fact habitat sucks, stocking will still not make it a great fishery).
A bass fishery would work in some of the lakes but again, would you rather catch pike and walleye or itty bitty bass? It would cost a lot and the chances of bass negatively affecting native fish stocks in our rivers is high ( i would be in favor of triploid fish in closed systems as a put and take fishery, i have seen sunfish take over a Southern Alberta Lake, not neccesarily great for other species). There are many reasons management occurs like it does. If you want to fish for food there are put and take fisheries for trout accross the province which serve this purpose. For the number of lakes we have and number of anglers its still a surprise we can keep many fish at all.
If walleye stocking is needed it should be a zero limit anyway as other management objectives have failed so it will not help fill your fry pan. For the money and resources our provincial biologists are given, they are doing a great job. Most people do not realize how complicated fishery management is in this province. Don't let the number of walleye being stocked fool you, very very few will survive from the size they're stocked at. Good fishing!!

jrs

SNAPFisher
04-11-2007, 06:18 PM
All interesting stuff. I have enough management in my day to day job to do. I think when it comes to fishing I'll just stick to catching fish and/or releasing them. I'll leave the management to the professionals and the speculation to the armchair biologists. :b

FiveO
04-12-2007, 11:23 AM
That a boy Snapper just sit back and go with the flow, wouldnt want to have any concerns. I believe these so called professionals "SRD" are in the process of messing with Marie lake but thats OK to just sit back and relax and in 25 years when fish stocks are completly in shambles you can take up a new sport.

Duffy4
04-12-2007, 12:08 PM
Fiveoh

Do you really think that the professionals (the staff of Fish & Wildlife) are a bunch of evil folks bent on ruining the fishery?

They may make mistakes and they are the first to admit that. But they try their best to do the best job for the resource and the user groups. They accept constructive critisism and look at recommendations from the public and user groups.

Often their hands get tied by polo-ticks and popo-tickheads.
Other branches of government often get more funding and have more "clout" when it comes to land use and developments that are less than benificial to the environment.

We should not sit on our hands but there is a difference between constructive suggestions and less than constructive "complaining".

Robin in Rocky

FiveO
04-12-2007, 12:27 PM
No I dont think there a bunch of evil folks. I will agree they are way under funded and Provincial gov should shell out more to F&W. However I do strongly believe they screwed alot of the alberta lakes with the closure of walleye. I would love to see more stocking efforts made of Walleye and Yellow perch for a catch and keep fishery but again this requires funding.

My point here Duffy is they collapsed Pike and Perch populations by closing walleye and leaving other species open.
As i said in the thread earlier even the shiner populations are way down from years past. I dont think walleye numbers have ever been so good, but stunted and i think it stinks.

Call it what you want Duffy but its the TRUTH.

SNAPFisher
04-12-2007, 01:34 PM
Sorry FiveO but you are out to lunch. I was mostly poking fun. As said, I do find it interesting but I certainly don't have the answers and do not indicate otherwise. I do have my own ideas but these are ignorant to how things are truly managed by F&W. I'm sure they have some very competent people working as best they can.

As for Marie Lake, you couldn't be further from the truth. I am gravely concerned about what is happening and could happen there. NB1 is my favorite fishing area. What has happened in Ft. McMurray is frightening. Marie Lake area could be next. I have written letters of concern to a number of public officials as provided on this site in a previous post. I have an article on Ft. McMurray that I am hoping to share with others. What have you done? Would you like a copy of the article on Ft. McMurray?

FiveO
04-12-2007, 04:28 PM
Ive sent several emails and got a bunch of BS responses. You refering to the article Neil wrote? If so i already read it, if its a different one i would love to have it.

We all have ideas and anyone who has spent years and years fishing should have a pretty good idea of whats going on so dont sell youself short and consider what you believe to be ignorant on how things are managed by F&W.

SNAPFisher
04-12-2007, 09:05 PM
Thanks for the comment FiveO. The article I am referring to is from Explore Magazine. I am making a new post with a link to a PDF on the article. I contacted the magazine to get permission to share the article. Please do read it. See post "Article on Fort McMurray".