slowly striping albertans of our heritage

[GOLDFINGER]

Government is trying to ban all camping out of designated campgrounds . Also banning quads, dirtbikes, side by sides etc from wilderness areas. Also hunting, etc. Also mountain bikes, horses, etc.
Sign the protest at the Lethbridge Lodge Hotel on Thursday Feb 28/13 between 5:00pm and 8:00pm.
Do your part to save our rights.
Do this before were screwed.

I got this mesage to late but there is an online petition and info @

www.avaaz.org

www.landuse.alberta.ca

we need to speack our minds and be heard as hunters and outdoorsmen so our kids can learn and experience the same heritage weve had in this country
since it was founded.

[Donkey Oatey]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=168752

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=163863


http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=158948

http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=158844

http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=155174

http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=156569

http://outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=113806

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=169526

[Big Daddy Badger]

Government is trying to ban all camping out of designated campgrounds . Also banning quads, dirtbikes, side by sides etc from wilderness areas. Also hunting, etc. Also mountain bikes, horses, etc.
Sign the protest at the Lethbridge Lodge Hotel on Thursday Feb 28/13 between 5:00pm and 8:00pm.
Do your part to save our rights.
Do this before were screwed.

I got this mesage to late but there is an online petition and info @

www.avaaz.org

www.landuse.alberta.ca

we need to speack our minds and be heard as hunters and outdoorsmen so our kids can learn and experience the same heritage weve had in this country
since it was founded.

What wilderness areas?

Or do you mean all of em?

[dmac]

Government is trying to ban all camping out of designated campgrounds . Also banning quads, dirtbikes, side by sides etc from wilderness areas. Also hunting, etc. Also mountain bikes, horses, etc.

we need to speack our minds and be heard as hunters and outdoorsmen so our kids can learn and experience the same heritage weve had in this country
since it was founded.

Your request is a little vague.

Since when was running around on quads and dirt bikes in "wilderness" areas part of the Alberta heritage?? I am pretty sure there are lots of places available to do this type of activity.

[livinstone]

Watch them wake up when the cow goes dry (tags ,camping ,fishing )or mabe not l really wonder?

[goldscud]

Sorry, ripping the crap out of the forest isn't part of my heritage

[Pincherguy]

Sorry, ripping the crap out of the forest isn't part of my heritage

This is true, unfortunately if they succeed we will be restricted to camping in camp grounds, and some restrictions on atvs. Now if you are hunting, how close is the campground to your hunting area and how much will they be charging to camp. This will add extra expense to our hunting expenses. Now if we shoot something it is nice to be able to retrieve it with our atv's. Some of us are not that young and retrieving the game by hand is extremely hard if not impossible. I think the riders need a place to ride where they can enjoy themselves without tearing up the country. Most of the riders I have observed like to explore new country and think nothing of creating new trails. These are the people creating the problems not hunters. As hunters we will be the ones that are impacted by these changes. Recreational riders will always find places to ride, we can not always find places to hunt and fish. Therefore I singed the petition even though my days in these activities are numbered. Future generations will suffer.

[Okotokian]

Unfortunately part of our Alberta heritage has been trashing/ despoiling, and industrializing our land. Not saying every proposal (and they are just proposals) should be approved, but we have to start somewhere. Higher impact uses have to be managed. Are the proposed areas and plans correct? I don't know. Probably more work needs to be done.

Could someone direct me to the actual proposal passage that indicates that 99% of the current available land for camping and OHV use will be taken away? That number gets bandied about a lot. Where is it? Thanks.

[pikergolf]

Unfortunately part of our Alberta heritage has been trashing/ despoiling, and industrializing our land. Not saying every proposal (and they are just proposals) should be approved, but we have to start somewhere. Higher impact uses have to be managed. Are the proposed areas and plans correct? I don't know. Probably more work needs to be done.

Could someone direct me to the actual proposal passage that indicates that 99% of the current available land for camping and OHV use will be taken away? That number gets bandied about a lot. Where is it? Thanks.

C'mon Oko, you know there's no such passage. LOL

It will be interesting to see what the plan actually looks like, what's been dropped and what's been kept. Lots of awareness has been raised so the next round of public consults should be interesting.

[kidd]

Thanks Goldfinger for the heads up and to Donkey Oatey for sharing the links to the threads on this. It is important that word gets out so that those who want a say in what the final result will be can have the opportunity to do so.
kidd

[Okotokian]

It will be interesting to see what the plan actually looks like, what's been dropped and what's been kept. Lots of awareness has been raised so the next round of public consults should be interesting.

I think everyone can agree it's important and should be paid attention to.

[pikergolf]

I think everyone can agree it's important and should be paid attention to.

That would be No. 1

[sevenmil]

Government is trying to ban all camping out of designated campgrounds . Also banning quads, dirtbikes, side by sides etc from wilderness areas. Also hunting, etc. Also mountain bikes, horses, etc.
Sign the protest at the Lethbridge Lodge Hotel on Thursday Feb 28/13 between 5:00pm and 8:00pm.
Do your part to save our rights.
Do this before were screwed.

I got this mesage to late but there is an online petition and info @

www.avaaz.org

www.landuse.alberta.ca

we need to speack our minds and be heard as hunters and outdoorsmen so our kids can learn and experience the same heritage weve had in this country
since it was founded.

Are you telling me they are going to try keep people from camping in the back country, ie forestry zones and wilderness areas? I did not hear about the no horses and no hunting part. If this is true we better be calling foul, and fast! I am sick and tired of this absolute B.S. For crying out loud, before long it will be illegal to take a breath of fresh air without first "obtaining a permit from your local government office." If this is true it needs to be shut down and fast.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Sorry, ripping the crap out of the forest isn't part of my heritage

Well if THAT is what this is all about... I'd argue that irresponsible quaders are the ones stripping us of our heritage.

And before any members get their panties in a knot... lets face it.... members here are not typical of the bulk of Albertans when it comes to this stuff.
We all know that its the bozo's that are ripping up the countryside not some responsible hunter putting along a fenceline.

[plinker]

You have to do a lot of reading to find the part where we take it up the pooper. Here is some of it and the attachment to the whole thing. Happy reading.
https://www.landuse.alberta.ca/RegionalPlans/SouthSaskatchewanRegion/Pages/default.aspx

Then scroll down to SSRP RAC Advice to the Government of Alberta
Then open the https://www.landuse.alberta.ca/LandUse%20Documents/South%20Saskatchewan%20Regional%20Advisory%20Counc il%20Advice%20to%20Government%20-%202011-03.pdf

Note: This document is advice to the Government of Alberta. This advice considered existing Government of Alberta policies and
information provided by the Government of Alberta’s staff. The Government of Alberta’s views and intentions may not necessarily
coincide with the recommendations of the South Saskatchewan Regional Advisory Council.

6.4.4.10 Unmanaged recreation activities that do not demonstrate stewardship and
respect for the natural environment, other values and land uses should not
be permitted on public lands.
• Motorized recreation, including rallies and races, should not be
permitted on public lands unless authorized on designated trails, routes
or areas;
• Motorized activities should not be permitted in riparian areas or
wetlands, and mud bogging should be prohibited on public lands; and

• Unmanaged camping should not be permitted on public lands unless
authorized in designated areas.

Private landowners will be encouraged to offer a range of
recreation and tourism developments in key locations for economic development purposes.

The South Saskatchewan Regional Advisory Council’s recommendation on land-use classification is outlined on the map on the next page and the statistics below:
Land-use Class Area (km2) Area (% of land)

Conservation Management Areas on Public Lands 9,381 11.4%
Wild Horse Plains 4,168 5.1%
Twin River Heritage Rangeland Expansion 430 0.5%
South Saskatchewan River - Eastern Reaches 731 0.9%
South Saskatchewan River - Western Reaches 1,127 1.4%
Bow River-Majorville Upland Corridor 505 0.6%
Castle-Waterton 745 0.9%
Porcupine/Pekisko Rangelands 1,337 1.6%
Elbow/Highwood/Kananaskis Foothills 167 0.2%
Ghost Forest 171 0.2%
Agriculture 55,438 67.2%
Cultivated 33,449 40.5%
Grazing 21,989 26.7%
Grazing on Public Lands 17,107 20.8%
Grazing on Private Lands 4,882 5.9%
Forestry 5,142 6.2%
Recreation/Tourism on Public Lands 411 0.5%

[pikergolf]

You have to do a lot of reading to find the part where we take it up the pooper. Here is some of it and the attachment to the whole thing. Happy reading.
https://www.landuse.alberta.ca/RegionalPlans/SouthSaskatchewanRegion/Pages/default.aspx

Then scroll down to SSRP RAC Advice to the Government of Alberta
Then open the https://www.landuse.alberta.ca/LandUse%20Documents/South%20Saskatchewan%20Regional%20Advisory%20Counc il%20Advice%20to%20Government%20-%202011-03.pdf

Note: This document is advice to the Government of Alberta. This advice considered existing Government of Alberta policies and
information provided by the Government of Alberta’s staff. The Government of Alberta’s views and intentions may not necessarily
coincide with the recommendations of the South Saskatchewan Regional Advisory Council.

6.4.4.10 Unmanaged recreation activities that do not demonstrate stewardship and
respect for the natural environment, other values and land uses should not
be permitted on public lands.
• Motorized recreation, including rallies and races, should not be
permitted on public lands unless authorized on designated trails, routes
or areas;
• Motorized activities should not be permitted in riparian areas or
wetlands, and mud bogging should be prohibited on public lands; and

• Unmanaged camping should not be permitted on public lands unless
authorized in designated areas.

Private landowners will be encouraged to offer a range of
recreation and tourism developments in key locations for economic development purposes.

The South Saskatchewan Regional Advisory Council’s recommendation on land-use classification is outlined on the map on the next page and the statistics below:
Land-use Class Area (km2) Area (% of land)

Conservation Management Areas on Public Lands 9,381 11.4%
Wild Horse Plains 4,168 5.1%
Twin River Heritage Rangeland Expansion 430 0.5%
South Saskatchewan River - Eastern Reaches 731 0.9%
South Saskatchewan River - Western Reaches 1,127 1.4%
Bow River-Majorville Upland Corridor 505 0.6%
Castle-Waterton 745 0.9%
Porcupine/Pekisko Rangelands 1,337 1.6%
Elbow/Highwood/Kananaskis Foothills 167 0.2%
Ghost Forest 171 0.2%
Agriculture 55,438 67.2%
Cultivated 33,449 40.5%
Grazing 21,989 26.7%
Grazing on Public Lands 17,107 20.8%
Grazing on Private Lands 4,882 5.9%
Forestry 5,142 6.2%
Recreation/Tourism on Public Lands 411 0.5%

And you take the last red highlighted area to mean we will be locked out of all the other areas?

[sevenmil]

So where does it talk about horse use? And back country camping?

[dan1]

6.4.4.10 Unmanaged recreation activities that do not demonstrate stewardship and
respect for the natural environment, other values and land uses should not
be permitted on public lands.
• Motorized recreation, including rallies and races, should not be
permitted on public lands unless authorized on designated trails, routes
or areas;
• Motorized activities should not be permitted in riparian areas or
wetlands, and mud bogging should be prohibited on public lands; and

• Unmanaged camping should not be permitted on public lands unless
authorized in designated areas.

Private landowners will be encouraged to offer a range of
recreation and tourism developments in key locations for economic development purposes.


----

I agree with the part about racing around and mud-bogging through wetlands. What does the "nmanaged camping" part? Is this the piece that would ban someone from pitching a tent on some crownland while hunting?

[sevenmil]

That's a good question dan1. That part has me a little worried. (no camping unless in designated areas) If backcountry camping were shut down we'd have a problem on our hands. It would be nice to get some clarification on this. Anybody know what the intent is with this part?

[winger7mm]

6.4.4.10 Unmanaged recreation activities that do not demonstrate stewardship and
respect for the natural environment, other values and land uses should not
be permitted on public lands.
• Motorized recreation, including rallies and races, should not be
permitted on public lands unless authorized on designated trails, routes
or areas;
• Motorized activities should not be permitted in riparian areas or
wetlands, and mud bogging should be prohibited on public lands; and

• Unmanaged camping should not be permitted on public lands unless
authorized in designated areas.

Private landowners will be encouraged to offer a range of
recreation and tourism developments in key locations for economic development purposes.


----

I agree with the part about racing around and mud-bogging through wetlands. What does the "nmanaged camping" part? Is this the piece that would ban someone from pitching a tent on some crownland while hunting?

Yes, They cant ban one group of campers from camping (the guys who leave burnt out cars and couches and bags upon bags of garbage) and allow another group, the guy in the tent up on the sheep hills to camp. Look at the "designated" camp grounds now, try and get a spot during a long weekend. We will be very hard up for campsites with 3 month in advance booking.

[dan1]

If that truly is the case, instead of "bans" or "designated areas" why not have the Conservation Officers enforce keeping natural areas well kept. Fine the guys who leave out garbage, leave junk, etc. The reality is this just shifts management away from natural areas and encorages the counties, etc to manage campers instead of having COs out managing poor , unethical behaviors.

[sevenmil]

If they ban all back country camping I think they are going to have a mess on their hands. That's taking away a huge opportunity from Albertans. On thing I look forward to a lot is being able to go in and pitch a tent in the backcountry. That's a freedom I do not want taken away in this province, among many others.

[Okotokian]

With regard to camping, the last recommendation is:
6.4.4.20 Develop new serviced and un-serviced designated camping opportunities in the Eastern Slopes and eastern areas of the region.

There are also recommendations for expansion of land and water trail systems.

Basically the recommendations that are getting some so upset here are ones that suggest that camping and quadding take place in designated areas (which could be small or large), not just anywhere and everywhere on public land, riperian areas, etc. Frankly, I agree. The size of the areas will be the key.

And my understanding is that the .5% of land for tourism and recreation is for facilities, campgrounds, etc., not that "recreation" (hunting, fishing, horse riding, camping, etc.) will only be allowed on .5% of the land.

[KegRiver]

The whole idea is preposterous and unenforceable.

Who would get charged, the guy who pulled off the highway for a nap?
The rangers on patrol?
The trapper building a new cabin?
How about the fisherman who stopped for a shore lunch.

We camp for so many reasons and in so many ways it would be a colossal task to try to decide who where when and why it would be legal for some cases and not for others.

There would be so many loopholes it would not be enforceable or it would be so restrictive even airplane crash victims could be charged.

And where are they going to find the manpower and the money to even start to enforce such a law? All government departments are short of both as it is, except for the politicians and their offices.

[Okotokian]

Land-use Class Area (km2) Area (% of land)

Conservation Management Areas on Public Lands 9,381 11.4%
Wild Horse Plains 4,168 5.1%
Twin River Heritage Rangeland Expansion 430 0.5%
South Saskatchewan River - Eastern Reaches 731 0.9%
South Saskatchewan River - Western Reaches 1,127 1.4%
Bow River-Majorville Upland Corridor 505 0.6%
Castle-Waterton 745 0.9%
Porcupine/Pekisko Rangelands 1,337 1.6%
Elbow/Highwood/Kananaskis Foothills 167 0.2%
Ghost Forest 171 0.2%
Agriculture 55,438 67.2%
Cultivated 33,449 40.5%
Grazing 21,989 26.7%
Grazing on Public Lands 17,107 20.8%
Grazing on Private Lands 4,882 5.9%
Forestry 5,142 6.2%
Recreation/Tourism on Public Lands 411 0.5%

Plink, you seem to be trying to suggest that OHV use, camping, etc. will be restricted to this .5% of the south sask area you have highlighted in red. That simply isn't the case. That .5% appears to be reserved for tourist facilities, campgrounds outside parks, attractions, etc. If one actually reads and looks at the maps you provided links to, you will see that motorized recreation would still be allowed in the mixed-use forest zone. Camping would also be allowed in parks and protected areas (you seem to have, strangely, cut that whole part out of your listing) and backcountry uses will still be allowed in the Conservation Management areas.

What seems (to me anyway) to be getting some riled is that OHV use in the mixed-use zone will be "managed".

[plinker]

Hi Oko, I edited for space not for convenience to be honest. There are many problems that come to mind but you really have to read the whole 70 some pages to have a muddled but better understanding. The can of worms for some of the "suggestions" is in the wording. They seem to have or are deliberately creating grey areas and we know that history dictates that grey areas usually are not "for the people". I do agree with some of the ideas. I get pizzed beyond belief when I see mud bogging in areas like the back country. What the H.E. double L are these people thinking about besides themselves.:snapoutofit: Areas like the Crownest where the Crowsnest Quad Squad has invested so much time and money (literally tens of thousands of dollars in money and countless volunteer hours) to manufacture and put in place bridges over sensitive creek areas and create trails and maintain them will be taken away. This is a continuation of the Y2Y program and thats what people aren't paying attention to. http://y2y.net/ These are the people who have influenced what is being attempted here.
Another page to look at from our best buddies the Y2Y folks. Tell me if it looks familiar!
http://y2y.net/our-work/priority-areas

[pikergolf]

That's a good question dan1. That part has me a little worried. (no camping unless in designated areas) If backcountry camping were shut down we'd have a problem on our hands. It would be nice to get some clarification on this. Anybody know what the intent is with this part?


Primitive and backcountry recreation and tourism activities, such as wilderness hiking,
hunting, fishing and low-impact camping, are generally compatible and will be actively
managed in conservation management areas. These areas will also support aboriginal
traditional land uses including subsistence gathering, hunting and fishing.

Is in the recommendations.

[paul1964]

I can understand some of there points. quad usage to drive trails are fine, its the ones that abuse the enjoyment by tearing up the bush.
As for camping I was told that its not the camping ,its the ones that have set up a camp and keep it there all season , not allowing others to enjoy our out doors. If they are there for more than 14 days they will require a permit.
As for hunting. I have hunted many provinces and found, that its not closing season that works. that causes problems. it the management. most Provinces I hunt you have a 2 week bow season for any deer, bear,elk ,moose. normally open season for riffle just after with deer, elk. moose general tags are calves to three point spike fork.special draws ON SPECIALTY ANIMALS. after the end of a open season usually at the end of November to first week of Dec, a final two week bow season and primitive weapon season opens.

its not just quad tho its motor cross also. last year bear hunting . I saw several motor crosser tearing up a hill on the southern slops in the 400s.

I would love to see the look on there face if I tore up there lawn with my 4x4

This year I am carrying video cam with all my trail cams on movie,

We hunters .take time to search for our game, clear trails. spend hundred s of dollars pm our trips. we appreciate our out doors and wild life.

As far as I am concerned add more officers, I don't mind.

only a few bad apples make it hard on us.

[sjd]

There is no plan yet, only some vague advice that the government is considering. A draft plan with details is expected this spring.

That being said - I agree with many of the posters on here - our outdoors heritage is at risk from uncontrolled motorized access and I welcome stricter controls on this.

I don't consider mud-bogging on crown land part of my heritage, and it depends on your definition of "random camping" - people can camp anywhere they like in Alberta, its the $200k motorhomes parked in riparian areas all summer that are more questionable.

Lets face it, there are nearly 4 million people in Alberta now and more coming all the time. The random camping sites mentioned here are basically free, poorly planned campgrounds with no fees and no washroom facilities

The 99% stat is bogus. I'm pretty sure the final plan will contain lots of trails for motorized users but crack down on lots of the abuses. Sounds good to me.

[stampsfan]

There is no plan yet, only some vague advice that the government is considering. A draft plan with details is expected this spring.

That being said - I agree with many of the posters on here - our outdoors heritage is at risk from uncontrolled motorized access and I welcome stricter controls on this.

I don't consider mud-bogging on crown land part of my heritage, and it depends on your definition of "random camping" - people can camp anywhere they like in Alberta, its the $200k motorhomes parked in riparian areas all summer that are more questionable.

Lets face it, there are nearly 4 million people in Alberta now and more coming all the time. The random camping sites mentioned here are basically free, poorly planned campgrounds with no fees and no washroom facilities

The 99% stat is bogus. I'm pretty sure the final plan will contain lots of trails for motorized users but crack down on lots of the abuses. Sounds good to me.

I agree!!

There needs to be some tighter restrictions on some of the well known and well used " random" camp spots. It makes me sick to see the crap people leave behind after a weekend.:angry3: