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Bear Ballz
04-30-2007, 09:21 PM
Fish meeting swarmed
Anglers swarm Thorsby Community Hall, fishing for changes

Rosemary Austen; editor@wetaskiwintimes.com
Monday April 30, 2007

Anglers swarmed the Thorsby Community Hall looking to have fishing regulations changed at Pigeon Lake.
"The meeting was beyond expectations," commented area fisherman Erwin Zotzmen.
"The hall was jammed packed. People were lined up just to get in."
Over 350 people from all over Alberta converged on the hall to discuss fishing practices on Pigeon Lake, April 24. In attendance was Alberta Sustainable Resource Development representative Ken Crutchfield, biologist Vance Buchwald of Red Deer and area MLA Tony Abbott.
They faced an angry group of anglers who believe mismanagement of Pigeon Lake has put a strain on fish populations. They allege that overstocking of the lake's top predator, walleye, has lead to the desecration of lesser marine species such as whitefish and perch.
"To have one of the best whitefish fisheries in Alberta decimated by mismanagement is unacceptable," asserts Zotzen.
"At the end of the day we have a lake with no whitefish, perch or pike as well as part of the west end, including Tide Creek, permanently closed to all fishing."
He maintains Pigeon Lake has "millions" of walleye that "will have to start eating each other to keep from starving to death."

Wetaskiwin fisherman Ben Grohn lead a busload of 35 citizens to Tuesday's meeting.
"We want to let the government know we are not happy with the situation," he said.
"They are trying to make it a trophy lake, all they want is walleye in there but the walleyes are taking over -- eating everyone out of house and home."
Fisherman were almost unanimous when making a motion to the drop the current tag draw system (system that allows fisherman to keep quotas of fish) in favour of regulations that allow for one walleye per day per fishing licence. They ask the new regulations take effect from May long weekend through to March 31.
"We've shown the government what the people want," charges Zotzmen. "That lake belongs to every citizen in Alberta. There is enough Walleye in that lake everyone should have one."
Biologist Vance Buchwald was not swayed by the fisherman's concerns.
"We listened to everyone’s concerns. Even within the group there was divergence in their views," he said. "Clearly some people don't agree with our management and felt the lake was overstocked, but others supported our stocking and wanted us to continue to manage the lake."
He says there's a perception out there that lakes stocked with walleye are trophy fisheries.
"That's not true. We manage the lake for all species."
He looks to the Pigeon Lake Management Plan which says the lake will be managed for a quality fishery.
"Meaning there are medium-sized fish available in all species. Our mandate is to manage the lake for all species."
He said many of the lake species were struggling before walleye was even introduced due to over fishing and shoreline development.
"There were issues before walleye were even introduced there. We are turning Pigeon Lake into a more natural state."
Buchwald says there needs to be broader public consultation before changes are made.
"We will address their concerns through some of our studies. It will take a better part of a year to implement these changes, if they should occur."

Bear Ballz
05-01-2007, 10:23 AM
Fish Cabo from Pigeon Lake



Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 347
Location: Pigeon lake Alta
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

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Congratulations to Erwin and his friends who have spent many days on surveys and meetings to get this great turnout.That biologist is lucky no one brought a hanging noose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would they do if everyone started keeping 1 fish and refused to pay fines = not enough jail cells!!!!!!!!!!!
Apparently not everyone believes in the tag system. This quote was from the "fishing alberta television forum" Some of the local "bed crappers" figure they can still carry on harvesting truck loads of fish without any damage. I don't see the logic behind his statement, who is he trying to punish the resource or the Gov't.

If every man,woman and child kept there one fish a day everyday from Pigeon it would be decimated in a summers time.

IMO

bearbait
05-01-2007, 01:04 PM
x2 bb

FiveO
05-01-2007, 03:28 PM
Again what sort of science is being used?. Shoreline development yah OK didnt SRD approve the project that allowed the lake to be dug in prime walleye spawning grounds at pigeon and now the same at Saint Anne?. They sure did approve both projects talk about a load of dung.

As I stated in past posts the current balance at Saint Anne is screwed. Hardly any shinners, perch or pike left. So I suppose the shinners were over fished as well I know they taste great pickled and canned.:p

Same story from alot of the lakes in Alberta.

happy perch fisher
05-01-2007, 05:17 PM
it be decimated 1 week

SNAPFisher
05-01-2007, 09:54 PM
FiveO, the science of biology, specializing in fish, is being used. What other science were you expecting? The person presenting at the meeting in Thorsby is a biologist. If you feel that these people are mis-managing that much, then step up the the plate. Let's hear your educated ideas. Better yet, join the local fish association in the Lac St. Anne area and contribute. Sounds like you have real concerns to resolve.

FiveO
05-02-2007, 09:52 AM
Thanks for your two cents snap. I was curious as to what sort of testing they have completed i.e.: creel surveys etc. That make more sense to you now?.

You sure buy in easy and take things at face value don’t you?. Face it they screwed up and are back peddling.

Like i said before closing down one species and leaving the rest open was a big mistake. Man jumps in and plays Mother Nature. You know the saying cause and effect?. It’s happened time and time again, not only with fish but with other animals in nature. Check out last issue of Alberta Game Warden on Urban Coyote's many examples provided and a good read.

SNAPFisher
05-02-2007, 07:13 PM
Back peddling??? From what? Sure I buy in. I didn't know any better before learning some things. Maybe you should do the same some day.

If your really that interested why don't you talk to the source. Talk to a bio. Visit the SRD website:

SRD Site (http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fieldoffices/prairies/fisheriesmanagement/default.aspx)

Creel surveys are just one of the tools used. There is a lot more to it. If you don't know what is involved, maybe you should learn something about it.

Pigeon
05-03-2007, 08:53 AM
FiveO,

Apparently you're a biologist, or you know more than a biologist, or you're just looking for something to argue on.

I agree with snap on this one. FiveO, I suggest that you try to obtain some facts so that you have something to stand on. You’re opinion (which you’re entitled to) is not scientific.

wildman
05-03-2007, 01:48 PM
five-o's right in many ways!!!!
- how can they claim to manage lakes with "science"??? the lakes are completely EFF-D UP!!!! is that "science's" fault????
- why should we trust the gov't??? they constantly gouge, lie, and mislead us!!!!
- and finally, we SHOULD question everything and everyone MUCH MORE than we do and not just sit and take everything. like the "temporary" GST, the gun registry, the rising taxes during a "surlpus" economy, the insane wages politicians get, etc., etc.,
i KNOW i'm rambling, but i'm just trying to make a point...we gotta stop buying bridges from our gov't.

ok, i'm spent!!!!!! :p

FiveO
05-03-2007, 05:53 PM
Thanks Wildman. Its good to see not every one buys into what the government is slinging.

SNAPFisher
05-03-2007, 09:07 PM
Wow WM, you must have been a big fan of the X-Files. I'm sure those biologists are just cooking up schemes on (a) how to take all of our money and (b) how to slowly mis-manage fisheries so that it appears to be that they are doing a job, dedicating learning and education, and yet they are all screwing us in the end. That sounds intelligent.

I don't know who slagged you or where your line of thinking comes from. Maybe you've experienced something I haven't and have a different insight for it.

Me, I'll continue to learn more about our fisheries and management from the people who do it day and day out. Instead of raising my fist up and the rest of the world and claiming it is everyones fault but my own.

i have other
05-04-2007, 09:59 AM
10 years of science to screww up more than a few lakes, and fix just a few others is a complete window into the incompetence of our lol, scientists.


Science got us where we are today, and we are goin farther down the toilet.


i have heard " just relax, everything will be ok" way too many times now with nothing to show.


I find them very narrowminded in thier approach to fix this problem.


Put a limit of 2 between 16-18 and spend some cash, and stock this lake continually. Its way overused, its way too damaged and populated for a LOL "natural" fishery to continue or be made. This lake will never be self supporting, and its obvious.

No more trying to make it natural again, other provinces have adopted this idea as they have realized decades ago.....

.....some waters can never be fixed!


And if our bios havent figured that out yet, I do believe thier incompetent.


Gorby

SNAPFisher
05-04-2007, 11:51 AM
Gorby, your entitled to your opinion as is everyone else here. We really are all wanting the same thing, we don't have to agree on the methods used.

Like I said, I'm going to quit operating in the dark and learn more about fisheries management. Our biologists and heads of the fishery departments are excellent resources to get started with and are extremely approachable and ready to provide information about how our fisheries are managed. They are also ready to receive new ideas and converse with the public on many levels. These are not faceless, cold people who are looking to line their pockets and mis-manage our fisheries. They are working hard to manage fisheries. That is their job.

With some of the approaches given here it would be like me walking into your place of work, saying what an extremely crappy job I think your doing, offer no new ideas and then leaving. That is useful how? Might as well wear a "seagull manager" hat so that at least the person knows that all your there to do is crap all over them and then leave.

FiveO
05-04-2007, 01:24 PM
Check this out Snapper...Real biologists and there concerns with over population..... It has to be true its science.... Need more links hundreds of articles available.

fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/htm...alleye.htm (http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/html/articles/2003/walleye.htm)

SNAPFisher
05-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Great link FiveO to a great article. Thanks for posting it here!

There are some real close comparisons and parallels for what has happened at Pigeon and what is currently going on. F&W are striving to make it a great fishery. The walleye tag system is a way to control the walleye harvest without completely destroying it. The comparison to shinners and reduction of other bait fish seems to parallel some of the current issues at Pigeon.

I don't know if we are still seeing the same thing but I especially like the last two paragraphs which I would equate to what we have going on here:

In recent years, the two sides have come much closer together. “We really do want the same thing anglers want, which is better fishing,” notes Wiedenheft, the northeast region fisheries manager. The agency has invited walleye anglers to help with survey nettings at Canyon Ferry and other reservoirs and with egg-taking operations at Fort Peck. Walleyes Unlimited has reciprocated by buying equipment for walleye management and installing perch habitat. The group’s extensive website walleyesunlimited.com even features an “Ask the Biologist” section, where anglers can get answers from FWP staff to their fishing and management questions.

“Some of our guys don’t get that FWP is really trying,” says Mark Henckel, outdoors editor for the Billings Gazette and a longtime WU member. “But it only makes sense that biologists wouldn’t want to produce a poor fishery.

Great ideas! I remember at the meeting that Vance mentioned a simliar thing about habitat approaches. Sounds like they are going down the same path. Have you shared this article with F&W here?

FiveO
05-04-2007, 03:03 PM
No I havent provided it to Fish and Feathers.
Google "walleye overpopulation" lots of info.

Im no biologist but I have spent 30+ years at Saint Anne and know there is a serious problem with over population of Walleye. No information or studies done on the lake that I have been able to find and its been closed for almost 10 years?>WTF.

SNAPFisher
05-04-2007, 03:50 PM
Anything that I have learned so far is in relation to Pigeon Lake. No doubt Pigeon is getting more attention at this time. I'd hazard to guess that a real challenge is getting knowledge spreadout from one lake to others, especially with tight funding.

It might be really worth writing, emailing or phoning F&W to talk about St. Anne. I have never fished it so I don't know beans about it.

walleye
05-04-2007, 04:12 PM
I think the most important thing (and it is no small thing) to remember about managing our fisheries is the funding to do so. I sit on the Alberta Fisheries Rountable Commitee, and talk to the biologist and Fishery Managers often. There are a few duds, like any other place of work but the majority are committed to improving the fisheries for all stakeholders in the province. We recently had a meeting in Red Deer a couple of weeks ago and there has been more funding approved for enforcement (12 more officers for 2007) and plans to implement a long term walleye stocking program as well as other initiatives being studied for all species. Your biologist and Managers realize there has been a shortfall when it comes to walleye stocking (last year was the first since 2000) enforcement and other areas as well. What you have to appreciate is that although F/W personnel can make recommendations, all funding still has to be approved by the Minister and the Premier. With a new minister and premier, and a healty economy in Alberta I believe things are going to improve over the next few years. It may be a slow process but it appears that the new minister and premier show a committment to improving our fishing and hunting a committment that was sorely missing in the past.

SNAPFisher
05-04-2007, 05:00 PM
Thanks Bobalong! The info is much appreciated. I did receive a letter back from the honorable Mr. Stelmach regarding other issues. I don't know if Ralph Klein would have taken the time or interest to do the same thing though I never tried until now. Here is hoping that more goes to our fisheries. I know that I can be vocal about that.... :b

Okay, now I'll shut up and go fishing. Looks like I'll be heading to Millers by Edson on Sunday.

Cheers!