Barbageddon 2013

[BeeGuy]

Well, looks like the Mayans may have had it right.

We have been saved so far from the Zombie Apocalypse,

but as the confusing 2013 AB Fishing Regulations Guide has dictated, this is the year of

The Barbageddon.

It will be a miracle if any fish survives to 2014.

Please vote to indicate whether you will be either 100% braless or will sometimes or always use barbs.

I personally will sometimes use barbs, but often will not. I just don't put much weight on it. I find trebles to have a significant impact on fish, and barbs none.

[Graffy91]

Well, looks like the Mayans may have had it right.

We have been saved so far from the Zombie Apocalypse,

but as the confusing 2013 AB Fishing Regulations Guide has dictated, this is the year of

The Barbageddon.

It will be a miracle if any fish survives to 2014.

Please vote to indicated whether you will be either 100% braless or will sometimes or always use barbs.

I personally will sometimes use barbs, but often will not. I just don't put much weight on it. I find trebles to have a significant impact on fish, and barbs none.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5wku4jXpt1qjwp1yo1_400.gif

[bubba 96]

Well, looks like the Mayans may have had it right.

We have been saved so far from the Zombie Apocalypse,

but as the confusing 2013 AB Fishing Regulations Guide has dictated, this is the year of

The Barbageddon.

It will be a miracle if any fish survives to 2014.

Please vote to indicated whether you will be either 100% braless or will sometimes or always use barbs.

I personally will sometimes use barbs, but often will not. I just don't put much weight on it. I find trebles to have a significant impact on fish, and barbs none.


I like braless..... lol, as for fishing i still go barbless as my 11yr old son, however if he is fishing say for trout I will keep barb on for now, just for the way trout can throw a hook, untill he gets a better hang of fishing for trout..

[MoFugger21]

I voted 100% barbless just so Mutter doesn't think I'm the anti-Christ.....

[FishingFrenzy]

I can see myself leaving the barb on SINGLE hooks when fishing streamers as they always end up in the lip...could mean I can keep em on better.

Other than that...barbless

[coppershot]

I'm barbless but find it pointless on any fly smaller than a 14. So I will be leaving the barbs on most of my midges and nymphs this year

[Geezle]

If I'm planing on keeping fish (rare) I'll consider barbs, but if it's a c&r day then I'll be barbless.

[huntsfurfish]

Will be barbed - have to, with all the complaining I have done about it.:) However might accidently put on a barbless hook that had already been pinched. Should get fined for using barbless!:)

[dodgeboy1979]

i have always pinched the barbs on treble hooks, but leave them on the single hooks....they tend to hold bait on better.

[Nakoda boater]

Just because it's easy in and easy out. Then it's quicker to max your fishing time.:)

[pikergolf]

what's a mif?

[Redfrog]

It's the law.

[ogre]

Well, looks like the Mayans may have had it right.

We have been saved so far from the Zombie Apocalypse,

but as the confusing 2013 AB Fishing Regulations Guide has dictated, this is the year of

The Barbageddon.

It will be a miracle if any fish survives to 2014.

Please vote to indicate whether you will be either 100% braless or will sometimes or always use barbs.

I personally will sometimes use barbs, but often will not. I just don't put much weight on it. I find trebles to have a significant impact on fish, and barbs none.

...and I fish braless too :fighting0030:

[anthony5]

Voted to use barbs sometimes because I will most likely use barbless where it is C&R only, don't much care what anyone thinks, as long as it is legal.

[jacenbeers]

If I'm planing on keeping fish (rare) I'll consider barbs, but if it's a c&r day then I'll be barbless.

My thoughts exactly. If I am fishing for Sturgeon or anything in the Bow River (browns and rainbows), I will be barbless as always. Also, anytime I am fishing for pike or walleye anywhere because they are not a fish I would keep. However, if I am at Spray for lakers or whites, I will likely be barbed.

[Wild&Free]

My intention is to be 100% barb less, however there are times when pinching a barb slips a guys mind for a few casts.

[skidderman]

Barbs all the way. Isn't it funny. Sk never went barbless, Sk asks to release the big spawners but no, Alberta is smarter than SK-----NOT

[RayL42]

The title made me laugh a little.
Anyway I may use barbed hooks if I plan on keeping fish, but most of my hooks have the barbs pinched already and I’m not going to the effort to un-pinch the barb or the expense to replace the pinched hooks.

[Double-Eh]

I won't be replacing debarbed hooks. Too much money for something that may change back again.

If I buy new, I'll likely debarb trebles. Especially since I don't keep many jacks and they tend to nearly pass lures entirely at times.

[Freedom55]

Barbs all the way. Isn't it funny. Sk never went barbless, Sk asks to release the big spawners but no, Alberta is smarter than SK-----NOT

Check the regulations. Saskatchewan has a lot of C&R lakes in three categories, all barbless. No barbs allowed at the Vanity Cup, the Premier's Cup, or Big River Walleye Classic. Nor in the Southern Tour.

I recently completed 1000 snell knots; not a barb in the bunch. None of the tackle I owned when I left Calgary has a barb on it. None of my salmon tackle is barbed (not that there are many sockeyes in SK). Nothing goes in a box or tray with a barb. Any hooks that make it under my skin will not have a barb.

Some of you guys got a weird belief that before barbs were outlawed, no one ever lost a fish. Oh look! My worm fell off.

Only Italo fishes with Barb.

Free

[Scott N]

Most of the time I flyfish, so I don't see much point in de-barbing small flies.

[Gust]

here's a barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwJ5KIcKX4

awesome fish caught on a barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsG2-BMCF8o

[Gust]

Thing is, is that all my lures are barbless now, unless I'm buying new, which I'm not.

[Nakoda boater]

here's a barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwJ5KIcKX4

awesome fish caught on a barb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsG2-BMCF8o

Yup, Barbie rod is my next purchase...

[MtnGiant]

what's a mif?

That's what I was thinking too....maybe he meant milf? hahaha

[Wild&Free]

That's what I was thinking too....maybe he meant milf? hahaha

If that's the case, I voted wrong.

[Blairh]

Barbless all the way! not to mention couple derbies I fish are barbless only in the rules.

[cranky]

Barbless soon as it comes outa the package, before it hits the tackle box. Cause sometimes i forget to pinch otherwise and its good practice for when they make it the law.

[grinr]

Again...what's a mif??
And where is the 100% barbed or "Barbed Most Of the Time" poll options?
I flyfish only and agree with a previous post that says "barbless on small flies is pointless".He says <#14.....I'd go so far as to say <#8?I hadn't fished a barbless fly in my life until moving to AB 2 yrs ago,I've caught at least a cpl thousand brookies over the span of 25yrs flyfishing,probably half of those on barbed #8 Woolybuggers,and safely released over 90% of those no worse for wear.Of the 10% that I killed,maybe 1-2% were because of a deep hook set or a hook point thru the gills or eyeball of tiny fish,which can happen just as easily with a barbless fly.The other 8-9% that I killed was because I had a craving for a panful of trout.Bait,now that's a differemt can'o worms,pun intended......but I don't fish with bait or jewelry so moot point.

IMO,barbed flies in appropriate sizes are no more harmful than barbless.Some might even argue that barbless advocates that take too long to land a fish for fear of losing it before they can take their "grip'n grin hero photo" are actually doing far more damage to the fishery with higher mortality rates from excessively playing fish/lactic acid concentrations than the barbed angler that lands fish quickly?What I do know for certain is that my hooked:landed ratio has suffered noticeably since going barbless last two years,and I'll be using barbs as long as it's legal,other than maybe for Bullies on relatively large flies?

[fishstix]

I don't fish to survive. If one gets off because I've chosen to use a barbless hook then good for the fish. Its not like I'm going to starve to death. I'll catch another.... I hope.

[AppleJax]

If I'm planing on keeping fish (rare) I'll consider barbs, but if it's a c&r day then I'll be barbless.

Yeah, what he said. You know, X2.:)

[Guitarplayingfish]

I don't fish to survive. If one gets off because I've chosen to use a barbless hook then good for the fish. Its not like I'm going to starve to death. I'll catch another.... I hope.

x2

Personally, I hope the province brings back barbless.

Too many uneducated fishermen (and women) that show no respect for fish as it is... I'm willing to bet some of us are going to see a lot of ripped lips this coming year.

[grinr]

Too many uneducated fishermen (and women) that show no respect for fish as it is... I'm willing to bet some of us are going to see a lot of ripped lips this coming year.
Pretty hard to argue with that based on some of the stuff I've witnessed on Bow in my relatively short time here....ie;barbed trebles,bait fishin,retaining oversized fish,3 azzclowns with a cpl grocery bags full of >35cm trout.......etc.

[RavYak]

Trout gear will all be barbed except for the few lures that are already debarbed(might have to go buy new replacements lol). Too many trout get off just because of their agility and barbs help avoid the little buggers from jumping off.

Might very well stay going barbless for walleye and pike. I really don't notice much difference when fishing for these fish and it is nice being able to easily remove the hooks.

[kingshow]

I'll probably be going barbed this summer if it is still legal. I don't believe that barbed hooks play a big deal in fish population on personal experience. Even barbless hooks can do serious fatal damage.

Most fatality s of released fish are caused by improper handling of the landing of fish. Like netting a fish and just letting it flop around on the floor of the boat tangling itself in in the netting and getting stressed out to a point of know return. Or not spending the time to revive a large fish. Stress is the number one killer of released fish in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.

[Guitarplayingfish]

I'll probably be going barbed this summer if it is still legal. I don't believe that barbed hooks play a big deal in fish population on personal experience. Even barbless hooks can do serious fatal damage.

Most fatality s of released fish are caused by improper handling of the landing of fish. Like netting a fish and just letting it flop around on the floor of the boat tangling itself in in the netting and getting stressed out to a point of know return. Or not spending the time to revive a large fish. Stress is the number one killer of released fish in my opinion. But that's just my opinion.

Are you saying that someone who hauls on a barbed hook or rips it out of a fishs mouth does not cause stress to the said fish? Especially if it is swallowed and close to the gills?

Of course stress is the biggest thing that affect fish.. and every little bit LESS counts.

Barbless hooks are CLEARLY the best option if we want to continue contributing to a sustainable, healthy fishery. I honestly don't know how you people don't see that.

[coppershot]

Mustad invented the first hook making machine in 1877 thus providing barbed hooks for people all over the world..Hundreds of years before that barbed hooks where made by hand. We have been using barbless hooks in alberta for what 10 years? I think the fish did just fine before 2004 don't you guys? If you wanna use barbless because you can release fish faster thats fine but don't try and tell me all the fish are in trouble because bubba is let loose on our rivers with a barbed Len Thompson.

[huntsfurfish]

x2

Personally, I hope the province brings back barbless.

Too many uneducated fishermen (and women) that show no respect for fish as it is... I'm willing to bet some of us are going to see a lot of ripped lips this coming year.

Will make little difference. But educating people on fish handling would help.

[huntsfurfish]

Mustad invented the first hook making machine in 1877 thus providing barbed hooks for people all over the world..Hundreds of years before that barbed hooks where made by hand. We have been using barbless hooks in alberta for what 10 years? I think the fish did just fine before 2004 don't you guys? If you wanna use barbless because you can release fish faster thats fine but don't try and tell me all the fish are in trouble because bubba is let loose on our rivers with a barbed Len Thompson.

Agree.:)

[Guitarplayingfish]

Mustad invented the first hook making machine in 1877 thus providing barbed hooks for people all over the world..Hundreds of years before that barbed hooks where made by hand. We have been using barbless hooks in alberta for what 10 years? I think the fish did just fine before 2004 don't you guys? If you wanna use barbless because you can release fish faster thats fine but don't try and tell me all the fish are in trouble because bubba is let loose on our rivers with a barbed Len Thompson.

I'm not...

But like I said, if you have seen inexperienced fishermen try to get a deep barbed hook out...:sign0161:

Every little bit helps.. That's all I'm saying. Not all of us are unhooking experts, especially those who are new to the sport.

[huntsfurfish]

Are you saying that someone who hauls on a barbed hook or rips it out of a fishs mouth does not cause stress to the said fish? Especially if it is swallowed and close to the gills?

Of course stress is the biggest thing that affect fish.. and every little bit LESS counts.

Barbless hooks are CLEARLY the best option if we want to continue contributing to a sustainable, healthy fishery. I honestly don't know how you people don't see that.

Science says it is not clear.

[crosbyfan123]

I love using barbed hooks, wait for the fish to inhale it then set the hook like a bass fishermen and when I go to take the hook out i usually wait for them to stop flopping on the ground and yank the hook as hard as I can. :bad_boys_20::bad_boys_20:

[Guitarplayingfish]

Science says it is not clear.

:snapoutofit:

[huntsfurfish]

That will get em riled up:)

[Guitarplayingfish]

I love using barbed hooks, wait for the fish to inhale it then set the hook like a bass fishermen and when I go to take the hook out i usually wait for them to stop flopping on the ground and yank the hook as hard as I can. :bad_boys_20::bad_boys_20:

:snapoutofit:

[huntsfurfish]

:snapoutofit:

If they considered the science behind this, this would not have been made a law in the first place.:)

Bad choice of words on my part but you know what I meant.

[Guitarplayingfish]

If they considered the science this would not have been made a law in the first place.:)

I disagree. If you considered every aspect (growing population = growing number of fishermen, species sensitivity, etc) I think barbless would come out on top. However, you are entitled to your own opinion.

[coppershot]

I disagree. If you considered every aspect (growing population = growing number of fishermen, species sensitivity, etc) I think barbless would come out on top. However, you are entitled to your own opinion.

Like I said before barbed hooks for hundreds of years vs barbless for 10? You do the math. Also catch and release was unheard of back then yet your father and his father and his father never wiped the rivers clean. The biggest problems fish face are loss of habitat, commercial over fishing and pollution to are watersheds. Barbs are a blip on the radar man...

[huntsfurfish]

I disagree. If you considered every aspect (growing population = growing number of fishermen, species sensitivity, etc) I think barbless would come out on top. However, you are entitled to your own opinion.

:snapoutofit:

we have been around this many times. I suspect the government will not reinstate this law. It was/is very unpopular, extremely hard to enforce. Meaning that compliance is extremely low overall and therefore ineffective. And a waste of "enforcement".

And studies have shown there is little significant difference in mortality rates.

[Guitarplayingfish]

Also catch and release was unheard of back then yet your father and his father and his father never wiped the rivers clean.

In a lot of places, This is exactly the reason why there are not as many trophy fish around. And your right, barbed/barbless is just a blip... but every little bit helps. I don't know about you guys, but I fish for sport. Some of you throw excessive lb test on and as many barbed hooks as you can fit. Thats not what sport-fishing is about.. The fish deserve a fair fight.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you barbless haters. Go rip some lips... When I start catching fish with holes in their faces, I will know who is responsible.

[bubba 96]

Mustad invented the first hook making machine in 1877 thus providing barbed hooks for people all over the world..Hundreds of years before that barbed hooks where made by hand. We have been using barbless hooks in alberta for what 10 years? I think the fish did just fine before 2004 don't you guys? If you wanna use barbless because you can release fish faster thats fine but don't try and tell me all the fish are in trouble because bubba is let loose on our rivers with a barbed Len Thompson.

Hey man I said I fished barbless....lol

[huntsfurfish]

In a lot of places, This is exactly the reason why there are not as many trophy fish around. And your right, barbed/barbless is just a blip... but every little bit helps. I don't know about you guys, but I fish for sport. Some of you throw excessive lb test on and as many barbed hooks as you can fit. Thats not what sport-fishing is about.. The fish deserve a fair fight.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with you barbless haters. Go rip some lips... When I start catching fish with holes in their faces, I will know who is responsible.

Who says I or others don't fish for sport or care about the sport!!! :snapoutofit:

Ive been releasing fish well before you were born.

[npauls]

I will be using barbs during tournament fishing and barbless for everything else.

There is going to be haters no matter which way it goes.

Like mentioned earlier there is no scientific proven facts that a barbed hook causes a higher mortality rate then barbless.

[coppershot]

So before barbless hooks fishing wasn't a sport?

And just to set the record straight I fish barbless but have nothing against the guys who don't want to. I C&R but have nothing against the guys who keep their limit. I'm not trying to argue with you but hate it when people try to push their opinion on what is ethical and what makes someone a true sports fisherman.

I fly fish but I don't shake my head and lift my nose at the folks that use bait and a bobber. Unless it's law, lay off the guys that want to use barbs and shake your head at the guys still using felt wading boots and 30lb lead pyramid anchors on their drift boats.(I'm actually guilty of the lead anchor but plan on changing that before the boat gets back on the water)

[huntsfurfish]

So before barbless hooks fishing wasn't a sport?

And just to set the record straight I fish barbless but have nothing against the guys who don't want to. I C&R but have nothing against the guys who keep their limit. I'm not trying to argue with you but hate it when people try to push their opinion on what is ethical and what makes someone a true sports fisherman.
I fly fish but I don't shake my head and lift my nose at the folks that use bait and a bobber. Unless it's law, lay off the guys that want to use barbs and shake your head at the guys still using felt wading boots and 30lb lead pyramid anchors on their drift boats.(I'm actually guilty of the lead anchor but plan on changing that before the boat gets back on the water)



Well said!

[EZM]

Will be barbed - have to, with all the complaining I have done about it.:) However might accidently put on a barbless hook that had already been pinched. Should get fined for using barbless!:)

That made me laugh ............:) because ........ I am staying barbless because of all the arguments, and tireless advocacy, I made in support of barbless !!! lol.:)

[ak-71]

,
..
Go rip some lips... When I start catching fish with holes in their faces, I will know who is responsible.

What ripped lips??? You just don't make any sense to me. I am sorry, but have you tried to remove a barbed hook by yourself??? If it is so much harder than barbless - you are just doing something really wrong.

[Pikehunter13]

Catch or release. I will use barbs until the law states I can't anymore.

So be it if a fish dies. Survival of the fittest i'd say.

[MoFugger21]

So before barbless hooks fishing wasn't a sport?

And just to set the record straight I fish barbless but have nothing against the guys who don't want to. I C&R but have nothing against the guys who keep their limit. I'm not trying to argue with you but hate it when people try to push their opinion on what is ethical and what makes someone a true sports fisherman.

I fly fish but I don't shake my head and lift my nose at the folks that use bait and a bobber. Unless it's law, lay off the guys that want to use barbs and shake your head at the guys still using felt wading boots and 30lb lead pyramid anchors on their drift boats.(I'm actually guilty of the lead anchor but plan on changing that before the boat gets back on the water)

Well said good sir! I'm getting awfully sick of all the people who are up on their pedestal 'looking down' upon other people who don't play by their beliefs.

[ak-71]

Taking a picture takes way more time than a time difference between removing barbed hook vs barbless. J hooks vs Circular at least in one study I found makes way more difference. Bait. And yet everybody is all upset with barbed hooks :thinking-006:
This is a "feel good" law for politicians and self-proclaimed "ethical" fishermen, not really aimed to help the fish

[huntsfurfish]

A simple law change could make pretty much all of us happy. Do not reinstate the barbless law and instead word a strong suggestion in the fishing guide about pinching barbs(like the one for fishing deep water). Those that like and believe it helps would be free to pinch their barbs still. Those that choose not to would be free to not pinch. Best of both worlds. And would not effect or would have little effect on the fisheries.:thinking-006:

Those that pinch their barbs would still be free to look down on us "other" fishermen.:)

And I promise to take utmost care when unhooking a gem!

[BeeGuy]

Those that pinch their barbs would still be free to look down on us "other" fishermen.:)


Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

The science is clear. There is no significant difference in mortality between barbed and barbless hooks.

What it boils down to is the necessity of some fisherfolk to find some reason to feel they are better than some others.

Personally, I can't believe anyone would consider it fair chase to catch a fish on anything but a dry.

Neanderthals the lot of ya!

[huntsfurfish]

LOL



What is dry fly? Ugg like big stick and spear with barb, bonk plenty big fish then go back to cave and cook on burning sticks.

[fishunter327]

shake your head at the guys still using felt wading boots and 30lb lead pyramid anchors on their drift boats.(I'm actually guilty of the lead anchor but plan on changing that before the boat gets back on the water)

yes well said,I use a lead anchor on my drift boat as well and this is the first time I heard it is taboo.
But thats a different thread no hijack intended.

[Gust]

yes well said,I use a lead anchor on my drift boat as well and this is the first time I heard it is taboo.
But thats a different thread no hijack intended.

Holy carp!!!!! At punching keys in for picking an online name, why didn't you give up at fishunter86? Nooo, you had to keep trying numbers until you hit fishunter327, very creative of you.

[fishunter327]

Holy carp!!!!! At punching keys in for picking an online name, why didn't you give up at fishunter86? Nooo, you had to keep trying numbers until you hit fishunter327, very creative of you.

hahaha.....actually in my younger days I shoehorned a chevy 327 smallblock into a 72 datsun 240z soooo it,s a nastalga thing.:happy0180:

[MissFlyfishing]

Braless.........and barbless. Win win :sHa_shakeshout:
Ban trebels, IMO.

[BeeGuy]

Ban trebels, IMO.

x2

I'm all about the BASS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cedfX-gzHuM)

[npauls]

Braless.........and barbless. Win win :sHa_shakeshout:
Ban trebels, IMO.

you want to go fishin? :sHa_shakeshout:

[EZM]

Ok .... ok ..... I am in on this now .... couldn't help myself ...lol

Admittedly studys have shown that bait, trebles etc... increase mortality rates and are far worse for fish when compared to using barbed single hooks versus barbless single hooks.

Given the data it's bait, trebles, barbs and finally barbless on a declining scale as to what has the greatest impact on mortality rates.

Barbless might be less signifigant and certainly it's not huge, but barbless do, in fact, reduce mortality rates.

Either way - to each his own - I'm staying barbless. I am also using single hooks in the place of trebles where it makes sense to do so.

Eveyone has these options ......... for now I guess.

[npauls]

Ok .... ok ..... I am in on this now .... couldn't help myself ...lol

Admittedly studys have shown that bait, trebles etc... increase mortality rates and are far worse for fish when compared to using barbed single hooks versus barbless single hooks.

Given the data it's bait, trebles, barbs and finally barbless on a declining scale as to what has the greatest impact on mortality rates.

Barbless might be less signifigant and certainly it's not huge, but barbless do, in fact, reduce mortality rates.

Either way - to each his own - I'm staying barbless. I am also using single hooks in the place of trebles where it makes sense to do so.

Eveyone has these options ......... for now I guess.

show me the scientific study done between barbs and barbless that supports what you have mentioned.

not bait or anything else. just barbs and barbless data

[cube]

[Ok .... ok ..... I am in on this now .... couldn't help myself ...lol

Admittedly studys have shown that bait, trebles etc... increase mortality rates and are far worse for fish when compared to using barbed single hooks versus barbless single hooks.

Given the data it's bait, trebles, barbs and finally barbless on a declining scale as to what has the greatest impact on mortality rates.

Barbless might be less signifigant and certainly it's not huge, but barbless do, in fact, reduce mortality rates.

Either way - to each his own - I'm staying barbless. I am also using single hooks in the place of trebles where it makes sense to do so.

Eveyone has these options ......... for now I guess.

Could you share your sources for the data on the trebles. I also looked this up and did not find what you found apparently.

eg A review of catch-and-release angling mortality with implications
for no-take reserves in Reviews in Fish Biology and Fisheries 2005 15: 129-154
"Treble vs. Single Hooks
One study found lower mortality of fish caught on
treble hooks vs. single hooks, while three studies
found no difference. Treble hooks caused less
mortality than a single, large hook for northern
pike (DuBois et al., 1994). No differences in
mortality from single vs. treble hooks were
reported for nonanadromous trout (Taylor and
White, 1992), cutthroat trout (Pauley and Thomas,
1993) and common snook (Taylor et al., 2001).
Gjernes et al. (1993) reported that treble hooks
were less likely to hook ‘‘critical’’ locations for
Chinook and coho salmon, but there was no
difference in mortalities, possibly because treble
hooks took longer to remove"

From Levys post after speaking with the Cold Lake Biologist about Seibert last year
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=135017&page=2

"I asked if moving to a single barb hook regulation would have any affect on catch mortality rates and he said it may increase. Research seems to indicate that those pesky rapalas with three treble hooks are great for catch and release fishing because they often get caught on the face and dont make it all the way down the fish's throat."

Malchoff,M.H.andMacNeill,D.B.(1995) their work published in Guidelines to Increase Survival of Released Sport Fish, Released Fish Survival Sport
Fish Fact Sheet. Cornell cooperative extension, Sea Grant.
"The use of treble hooks is usually associated with longer handling times and prolonged time out of the water. DESPITE THESE EFFECTS, MORTALITY RATES ASSOCIATED WITH TREBLE HOOKS ARE USUALLY (BUT NOT ALWAYS) LOWER THAN FOR THE USE OF SINGLE HOOKS.

As the Cold Lake biologist indicated: if you review studies that look at the number of trebles all found that more is better when it comes to mortality.

but as you say each to his own

[ak-71]

I was surprised to read this too in the last couple days, I know trebles are harder for me to remove, but apparently fish doesn't care that much.. Live and learn :)

[anthony5]

I think a few soap boxes just got kicked:snapoutofit:

[fishunt]

braless yaa / bait moves better in the water ?

[Who Da Fisherman]

This year does not matter as I will just reach in and throw out whatever I want.
But during derby and tourney it will be barbed.:sHa_shakeshout:

[barbless]

:test: :argue2: Mother in law doesn't fish or get in the boat. Guess we fish Barbless. What the heck I don't keep fish for the most part. That's why the name. Been Barbless for a long time now and still get to release my share of fish. Also makes it easier to release the hook from ones finger.:sign0161:

[fishunter327]

:test: :argue2: . That's why the name. Been Barbless for a long time now and still get to release my share of fish. Also makes it easier to release the hook from ones finger.:sign0161:

I hope you don't change your name to crotchless then.lol..but is the barb..barbless theory more about barbless catching less fish therefore causing less mortality? I only ask the question ?

[Lefty-Canuck]

I am changing my way ways boys 100% barbed and keeping my limit every time I go out..... If you can beat EM eat EM !

I might as well everyone else is doing it!

LC:)

[BeeGuy]

I thought that was the Provincial Motto they taught in elementary school.

"I'll get mine before it's gone."

[Lefty-Canuck]

I thought that was the Provincial Motto they taught in elementary school.

"I'll get mine before it's gone."

It was actually....

"If you can't be part of the solution...then contribute to the raping and pillaging"

LC

[fishunter327]

It was actually....

"If you can't be part of the solution...then contribute to the raping and pillaging"

LC

Isn't that the Enbridgde motto?Or is that Exxon ,no Shell No help me out here?

[Outcast]

Isn't that the Enbridgde motto?Or is that Exxon ,no Shell No help me out here?
Redford

[EZM]

show me the scientific study done between barbs and barbless that supports what you have mentioned.

not bait or anything else. just barbs and barbless data

Search function - been there done that - no offence - there is simply no point to trying to provide data if you just want to believe a barbed hook that leaves a bigger hole and does more damage when extracted simply is a myth.

Took me exactly 4 seconds to find this ....

http://nativefishsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/Barbed-and-Barbless-Hooks-Lit-Review-408.pdf

There is simply no point in arguing this all over again when you simply just don't want to face the truth.

I respect your decision to use barbs so respect mine to state facts.

[BeeGuy]

We have been over this.

You clearly do not know what a primary scientific article is, as you have never posted one.

These are the experiments from which we draw conclusions.

A review article does not provide such evidence.

If there were conclusive studies, they would be posted here on a regular basis.

However, there are none.

Doing a google search in the manner you have only produces articles, not facts, that are inline with the bias of your search terms.

If there were conclusive studies I would post them up myself.

[EZM]

[

Could you share your sources for the data on the trebles. I also looked this up and did not find what you found apparently.

DESPITE THESE EFFECTS, MORTALITY RATES ASSOCIATED WITH TREBLE HOOKS ARE USUALLY (BUT NOT ALWAYS) LOWER THAN FOR THE USE OF SINGLE HOOKS..

but as you say each to his own

Have a look at this one ..... pretty good info

http://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/Bartholomew%20Review.pdf

[BeeGuy]

EZM,

Post up some data.

[BeeGuy]

EZM,

Do you understand what the difference between a review article and primary scientific literature is?

[npauls]

Search function - been there done that - no offence - there is simply no point to trying to provide data if you just want to believe a barbed hook that leaves a bigger hole and does more damage when extracted simply is a myth.

Took me exactly 4 seconds to find this ....

http://nativefishsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/Barbed-and-Barbless-Hooks-Lit-Review-408.pdf

There is simply no point in arguing this all over again when you simply just don't want to face the truth.

I respect your decision to use barbs so respect mine to state facts.

A bigger hole has nothing to do with mortality rates.

[BeeGuy]

The last article you posted is a review of a meta-analysis.

This is 3 degrees of separation from the original research.

Who does Taylor and White 1992 get their data from?

[BeeGuy]

A bigger hole has nothing to do with mortality rates.

Greater trauma (ie a bigger hole) has not been established afaik.

Would love to see the facts and data on that.

[EZM]

We have been over this.

You clearly do not know what a primary scientific article is, as you have never posted one.

These are the experiments from which we draw conclusions.

A review article does not provide such evidence.

If there were conclusive studies, they would be posted here on a regular basis.

However, there are none.

Doing a google search in the manner you have only produces articles, not facts, that are inline with the bias of your search terms.

If there were conclusive studies I would post them up myself.

Agreed ..... there is simply no point to this exercise as any data out there, despite it origins from a University, or if it's written by a PhD, or Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter.

I get it. Anything you don't like is to quickly be discredited. I appreciate your attempt to discredit data and to define a summary of a scientific study, which presents factual information as an article, which is based on opinions, is clever. God Bless 'Merica tactics do work for the masses.

You are 100% correct about bias and provide a perfect example of such.

Either way, and once again, we are doing this all over again with no point to it really.

I am cool with whatever you choose to do ...... I absolutely, and without prejudice, support your right to choose ...... let's leave it at that.

[EZM]

double post...

[Pikehunter13]

I will use barbs.

YeeeeHawww!

See you out on the water.

[BeeGuy]

You fail to realize that you have not yet posted any data.

I do not have a vested interest in discrediting anyone's research.

Whether I fish barbless or barbed doesn't matter to me.



Your review articles provide no experimental methods and no data.

Bartholomew is literally a summary of a summary.

Who did Taylor and White 1992 get their data from? That would be a start to actually finding some data.

[BeeGuy]

I will use barbs.

YeeeeHawww!

See you out on the water.

Not likely

[EZM]

EZM,

Do you understand what the difference between a review article and primary scientific literature is?

Absolutely.

My grandfather once said "never look over at someone and assume you are smarter, or more educated than he is, it may lead you down a path to humbleness"

Feel free to PM me should you have any further questions about my background, qualifications, or the work I have done ........bring lots of snacks and maybe an orange pop.

I'd like to hear more about you ..... I am genuinely interested.

[BeeGuy]

So I tracked down Taylor and White's 1992 Meta-analysis which is what Bartholomew was based on.

Taylor and White used 4 previous studies for their barbed/barbless data from table 3.

1. Hunsaker et al (1970) - no difference
2. Falk et al (1974) - no difference
3. Dotson (1982) - no difference
4. Westerman (1932) - Barbless<barbed

Table 5 in Taylor in White shows how few replicates have been used.

*When trying to find differences which may be very small, especially when variability can be very high, you need LARGE sample sizes. Even if you find an absolute difference, it is very unlikely to be significant (p<0.05).

For example, this paper which is a scientific experiment (not review) looking at differences in mortality between barbed and barbless in Lake Trout (http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/38891.pdf)

[BeeGuy]

This is a copypasta article from the web for those interested.



Barbless hooks: Do They Really Make a Difference?
I encountered an interesting scientific article recently regarding the difference in mortality between barbed and barbless hooks used in recreational fisheries. Dan Schill an R. L. Scarpella (1997) conducted a literature review and meta-analysis on all studies comparing the use of these two hook types, and came up with some very interesting results.


In the first study comparing barbed vs. barbless, Westerman (1932) concluded that barbed hooks caused higher mortality than barbless hooks, however, he did not use any statistical analysis to test these results. Since then, a number of different studies have taken place. Taylor and White (1992) summarized datasets from these studies using meta-analysis, and concluded that barbed hooks caused higher mortality than barbless as well.


Upon reviewing the Taylor and White review, Schill and Scarpella noticed that some previous studies were NOT included in the the analysis, and furthermore, the approach of statistical analysis in the review was questionable. They therefore decided to use a more common approach to the meta-analysis, and use all the existing available data up to 1997.


Using a more thorough data set and better methods of statistical analysis, Schill and Scarpella determined in 1997 that barbless hooks showed NO EVIDENCE OF REDUCING FISH MORTALITY IN COMPARISON TO BARBED HOOKS. Some studies did show higher mortality rates using barbed hooks, and others showed the opposite. However, the differences were so small (usually just a couple of percentage points) that they did not overcome the difference that could have been caused simply by random error.


Since the Schill and Scarpella paper in 1997, a number of other studies have examined the difference between barbed and barbless hooks. The results of all the studies I could track down are as follows:


Dubois & Dubielzig (2004) - showed no biological advantage in using barbless hooks


Dubois & Dubielzig (2004, different study) - no difference between barbed and barbless, except when fish deeply swallowed the hooks, in which case barbless were better.


Schaeffer & Hoffman (2002) - no significant difference in mortality between barbed and barbless. Barbed hooks landed 22% more fish. Quicker hook release time with barbless.


Meka (2004) - higher injury rates with barbed hooks, however she did not compare mortality, so results are not applicable.


Clearly, there has been no demonstrated evidence that barbless hooks cause lower mortality rates than barbed hooks. However, barbless hooks are becoming a more and more popular regulation in recreational fisheries. Why is it that these regulations persist? Even in Idaho, where Schill and Scarpella demonstrated the facts, barbless restrictions exist in many waters. I believe that the barbless regulation is simply a feel-good regulation. People are still convinced that barbless hooks �must� be better than barbed, despite what the science says.
Simply put, a mouth hooked fish, handled properly, has a very miniscule chance of dying whether or not the hook used is barbed or barbless. Mortality issues arise when the hook is swallowed and significant bleeding and tearing occur, as well as when a fish is improperly handled and held out of the water for too long. Therefore, we should quit worrying about the little barb that helps anglers land more fish, and start thinking about ways to improve other facets of angling mortality, particularly how we handle the fish once caught.


One final note: Schill and Scarpella quote the annual estimated NATURAL mortality of trout in streams to be between 30% - 65%. With such an incredibly high mortality rate already occuring, most fishing mortality is probably compensatory (the fish would have died naturally by the end of the year, whether or not you killed it). Therefore, how can we be justified in griping about a 0.3% mortality difference between barbed and barbless hooks?


Dubois, R. B. and R. R. Dubielzig. 2004. Effect of hook type on mortality, trauma, and capture efficiency of wild stream trout caught by angling with spinners. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 24:609-616.


Dubois, R. B. and R. R. Dubielzig. 2004. Effect of hook type on mortality, trauma, and capture efficiency of wild, stream-resident trout caught by active baitfishing. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 24: 617-623.


Meka, J. M. The influence of hook type, angler experience, and fish size on injury rates and the duration of capture in an Alaskan catch-and-release rainbow trout fishery. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 24:1309-1321.


Schaeffer, J. S. and E. M. Hoffman. 2002. Performance of barbed and barbless hooks in a marine recreational fishery. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 22:229-235.


Schill, D. J. and R. L. Scarpella. 1997. Barbed hook restrictions in catch-and-release trout fisheries: a social issue. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 17:873-881.


Taylor, M. J. and K. R. White. 1992. A meta-analysis of hooking mortality of resident trout. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 12:760-767.


Westerman, F. A. 1932. Experiments show insignificant loss of hooked immature trout when they are returned to water. Michigan Department of Conservation, Monthly Bulletin. 2(12): 1-6

[BeeGuy]

Though I would prefer not to post a meta-analysis, this paper by Schill and Scarpella is the gold standard so far.

It is surprising that such a popular issue should have so little research conducted on it.

pages 1 and 2

[BeeGuy]

pages 3 and 4

[BeeGuy]

pages 5 and 6

[EZM]

This is a copypasta article from the web for those interested.

Excellent .............. makes a perfect illustration of what we have been discussing.

Seems some of previously deemed as poo-poo "articles" are included here.

Interesting .....

Some guy who died long ago once said "sometimes you are your own biggest enemy"

:love0025:

[BeeGuy]

pages 7 and 8

[BeeGuy]

final page Schill and Scarpella

[EZM]

Here - let me help you with your data

http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/65/6/899.full.pdf+html

from your list above

[BeeGuy]

What is clear from the literature is that the difference in mortality between using barbed or barbless hooks is not significant.

One can only assume there is some differences, however whatever difference exists either has no impact on mortality, has an immeasurably small impact, or due to tradeoffs in the mechanics, has no difference.

The science tells us there is no measurable difference, and this is despite the overwhelming socio-ethical ideology that barbs are obviously worse.

If you are concerned about fish mortality, do not take them out of the water. The science is conclusive when it comes to measuring an increase in mortality wrt the time out of water.

The fish are better off not to be photographed, than they are to be caught on a barbless hook.

Better yet, teach new fisher people how to unhook and release a fish properly, and otherwise, take care.

[EZM]

One more before bedtime .....

http://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/Fish%20Res%20-%20Gutowsky%20et%20al%202011.pdf

this one is nice ......

[BeeGuy]

Here - let me help you with your data

http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/65/6/899.full.pdf+html

from your list above

They did not test for mortality:thinking-006:

They found large hooks and barbless hooks reduced unhooking time, "although differences were small".

[EZM]

What is clear from the literature is that the difference in mortality between using barbed or barbless hooks is not significant.

One can only assume there is some differences, however whatever difference exists either has no impact on mortality, has an immeasurably small impact, or due to tradeoffs in the mechanics, has no difference.

The science tells us there is no measurable difference, and this is despite the overwhelming socio-ethical ideology that barbs are obviously worse.

If you are concerned about fish mortality, do not take them out of the water. The science is conclusive when it comes to measuring an increase in mortality wrt the time out of water.

The fish are better off not to be photographed, than they are to be caught on a barbless hook.

Better yet, teach new fisher people how to unhook and release a fish properly, and otherwise, take care.

I agree with most of what you say.

The difference is not significant, however, there is a difference.

I have maintained this perspective despite repeated attempts to rally the masses to scream God Bless 'Merica....

Your examples clearly underpin and completely support my opinion.

I respect your opinion and will not lower myself to attempt to discredit you.

My expectations of the same reciprocation, respect and courtesy are clearly naive.

[EZM]

They did not test for mortality:thinking-006:

They found large hooks and barbless hooks reduced unhooking time, "although differences were small".

I should have been more clear ..... this was in response to your quote

BEEGUY: "If you are concerned about fish mortality, do not take them out of the water. The science is conclusive when it comes to measuring an increase in mortality wrt the time out of water."

This study is yet another outstanding example, which If I were clever, would challenge your quoted statement wouldn't it?

They were unable to scientifically conclude that time out of the water increased mortality - yet clearly, time out of the water is, indeed, a factor in mortality.

Does a fish not suffocate if it's out of the water too long.....isn't longer worse .....yet where's the proof ? (sarcasm to illustrate my point)

Do you see what I'm saying here?

Just because, as you yourself said earlier, there is surprisingly little data on this subject, does not mean the small amount of data we have is junk.

Most of that data, and certainly the more scientifically sound data supports my perspective on this matter ....... would you disagree?

[slivers86]

If I'm planing on keeping fish (rare) I'll consider barbs, but if it's a c&r day then I'll be barbless.

agreed

trout ponds ill be barbed for dinner, not that its challanging without them... :sHa_shakeshout:

elsewhere, barbless

[billwminnow]

I would say I love both in rivers fly fishing barbless Bra or pansylicious or boxerless ladys for you but i would say lakes especially stocked barbs they are the cows they are going to be slaughtered a big percentage of them:)

[Lefty-Canuck]

Do you ever fell like sometimes you are eavesdropping on a private 2 person conversation :)

LC

[jeffrey929]

I feel the same way LC.... I think I will now divide up my hooks into two piles and debarb half and keep the other half barbed

[huntsfurfish]

Thanks for posting BeeGuy. Good info.

[Lefty-Canuck]

If I'm planing on keeping fish (rare) I'll consider barbs, but if it's a c&r day then I'll be barbless.

That is a pretty sensible approach to this whole thing.

LC