Gear ratio for Baitcaster

[fishnfoo]

I am looking at getting a low profile baitcaster to fish for walleye and pike. I am trying to decide what gear ratio to go for 6.4:1 or 7:1. I am leaning toward the high speed ratio. I like the idea of being able to burn baits and take up slack quickly. I know I will lose torque but I don't think I really use the reel to crank the fish in. I think the rod and drag system are used to fight the fish and the reel is used to pick up the slack. There is not that much difference between the two gear ratios (about 2 inches per crank). I am not that knowledgeable about baitcasters and am interested in hearing other views on this topic.

Thanks

[EZM]

You are correct - there isn't a significant difference there.

A bigger question is what brand and model of bait caster you are considering. There are some significant differences there.

A decent bait caster starts at about $100.

[fishnfoo]

You are correct - there isn't a significant difference there.

A bigger question is what brand and model of bait caster you are considering. There are some significant differences there.

A decent bait caster starts at about $100.


Thanks for the confirmation. I have done quite a bit of research. There is a dizzying amount of choice out there. I am looking to spend about $100. The reel I have settled on is the Bass Pro Shops Pro Qualifier. It has been very favourably reviewed. On the PBS website it has a 4.7 out of 5 star rating with over 600 reviews. I really like the dual braking system (magnetic and centripetal).

I am also interested to hear positive and negative reviews of reels. I am looking for best value for about a hundred bucks.

[bwackwabbit]

If I had $100 to spend on one it'd be this one...

http://www.basspro.com/Shimano-Caenan-Baitcast-Reel/product/10219064/

Hands Down!

[DiabeticKripple]

^ that's the one I'm eyeballing. Looks nice.

[Geezle]

If I had $100 to spend on one it'd be this one...

http://www.basspro.com/Shimano-Caenan-Baitcast-Reel/product/10219064/

Hands Down!

Another vote for the Shimano Caenan...I have two of them now and love them :)

[waterninja]

cant go wrong with the ambaseder.

[Fishing_Junkie88]

In my experience, while yhe bass pro brand looks and seems nice. They are pretty junky, level wind will probably go first and so on and so on. They will work for a while but they're not the best made. Just my opinion. Spend a few bucks more and grab a shimano or Abu Garcia.

[Mutter87]

What does the gear ratio mean? The 7:1 is 7" per I full turn, but what would 6:4:1 be?

[Geezle]

What does the gear ratio mean? The 7:1 is 7" per I full turn, but what would 6:4:1 be?

I *think* (scary, I know! :scared:) that it means the spool does 7 rotations for every turn of the handle, though I'm not 100% sure on that one.

[cube]

What does the gear ratio mean? The 7:1 is 7" per I full turn, but what would 6:4:1 be?

I think you meant 6.4 to 1 not 6:4 to 1.

The ratio refers to how many times the spool turns per handle crank not how many inches, as the inches will vary depending on the diameter of the spool with line on it. Example I have one reel that brings in 34 inches of line per handle turn but it's ratio is a 6.3:1. Also if you have allot of line on the spool then the diameter will be larger and you will bring in much more line per handle turn compared to the same spool with less line on it.

Hope that helped

[Fishing_Junkie88]

I *think* (scary, I know! :scared:) that it means the spool does 7 rotations for every turn of the handle, though I'm not 100% sure on that one.

Yup your right geezle.

[Mutter87]

I think you meant 6.4 to 1 not 6:4 to 1.

The ratio refers to how many times the spool turns per handle crank not how many inches, as the inches will vary depending on the diameter of the spool with line on it. Example I have one reel that brings in 34 inches of line per handle turn but it's ratio is a 6.3:1. Also if you have allot of line on the spool then the diameter will be larger and you will bring in much more line per handle turn compared to the same spool with less line on it.

Hope that helped

It did actually, thank you. Lower gear ratio is more torque.

[Fishing_Junkie88]

yup thats correct, my big reels are alot lower than my low profiles

[EZM]

The Shimano is a great choice .....

Here is another option from Abu Garcia ....

http://www.abugarcia.com/products/reels/low-profile-baitcast-reels/orra/orra-sx

Abu Garcia may sound like an east indian / hispanic brand of reel - but it's engineered by the Swedish ..... who make nice stuff.

[Mutter87]

The Shimano is a great choice .....

Here is another option from Abu Garcia ....

http://www.abugarcia.com/products/reels/low-profile-baitcast-reels/orra/orra-sx

Abu Garcia may sound like an east indian / hispanic brand of reel - but it's engineered by the Swedish ..... who make nice stuff.

I like the Revo Torro. Very nice looking reel.

ABU Garcia, originally A B Urfabriken, They purchased Garcia tackle company USA in 1980.

[fishnfoo]

Great info, thanks for all the responses. The Caenan has also been getting great reviews. But it seems that you get more bang for your buck with the Pro Qualifier.

Has anyone bought a high speed reel and regretted it? The only down side I can think of is it may be a struggle reeling in bigger baits.

Thanks again for the comments.

[Wild&Free]

Great info, thanks for all the responses. The Caenan has also been getting great reviews. But it seems that you get more bang for your buck with the Pro Qualifier.

Has anyone bought a high speed reel and regretted it? The only down side I can think of is it may be a struggle reeling in bigger baits.

Thanks again for the comments.

High speed reel vs. big fish is about the only regret you'll have. They're also not the greatest if you're fishing flowing water and the fish escapes into the current. Lot more work for the drag. Other then the few instances where the fish/current out torques you I love them. Allows more finesse since you don't have to crank as much when they come in. If you do find yourself horsing them in, the lower torque will let the fish run easier I would think and reduce stress where the hook has punctured.

What am I saying. I love the high speed reels for when the fishing is slow and I can just rip my lures back in to move to a different spot.

[fishnfoo]

Has anyone using a high speed reel had any problems reeling in large crankbaits or large spinnerbaits?

[Wild&Free]

Shouldn't have issues with reeling in larger baits/lures. Just need to make sure your drag is properly adjusted.

[fishnfoo]

Shouldn't have issues with reeling in larger baits/lures. Just need to make sure your drag is properly adjusted.

Thanks for the feedback. I read a few articles that indicated that high speed reels would not be suitable for large crank baits and spinner baits. but it didn't make sense that the mediun speed reels that take in about 26 inches of line per crank were that much different than the high speed reels taking in about 29 inches. It only adds up to about 10% difference. I guess that is the dilemma of having too much choice.

[Wild&Free]

The main issue, I believe, is the torque difference. High torque and heavier load will make you reel against the drag more often. If you are intending on using larger baits with this reel I would go with a 6.4:1 vs. a 7:1. Use the right equipment for the job and you'll have no issues. It's like buying a jacket for vacation. If you're going north you don't want a light wind breaker, and if you're going south you don't want a parka. If you want to rip small lures/top water baits get a high speed retrieve, if you want larger baits and slower presentation go with a slow or medium speed.

[Geezle]

Has anyone using a high speed reel had any problems reeling in large crankbaits or large spinnerbaits?

Nope, and I throw some big stuff :)

[DiabeticKripple]

the difference i think on a reel as small as say the caenan, i would think would be minimal.


if the reel is say 1" in diameter, the difference in line retrieval between a 6.4:1 and 7:1 is one inch per turn.

on a larger diameter reel, say 3", the difference is much larger. the difference is 8.5" per turn.

[EZM]

Nope, and I throw some big stuff :)

me too - I throw some ridiculous big cranks sometimes and have no issues.

I'm thinking of buying that 20" novelty Rapala and using it too - lol.

I don't see much of difference in my 7:1 vs my 5.5:1 reels - maybe a few inches faster per turn - if it bothers you ..... reel slower .....lol.

If your drag is set at, say 40%-50%, you should not have any issues. If you need to pick-up line in a hurry ..... the higher ratio help a little.

[cube]

Has anyone using a high speed reel had any problems reeling in large crankbaits or large spinnerbaits?

Yes! Not so much with the cranks unless they are big very deep divers but the big double colorado blade spinners pull like crazy. If your planning on casting those you might want to get the lower ratio reel.

Have fun with which ever reel you get

[huntsfurfish]

Whatever turns your crank:).

Or you can buy a reel that is 2 speed.:)

6.1 and 3.8 Shifts on their own. Abu Garcia. Wont trade them for anything.

:sHa_shakeshout:

Not sure if they still make em.

Checking.

[huntsfurfish]

Doesn't look like it. But didn't check to hard.

ebay maybe?

Ps yes I am a fan of Abu Garcia bait casters.:happy0034:

[fishunter327]

http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/round_baitcasting/Calcutta_TE_DC.html shimano calcutta te200dc ,a little more than $100 but you will never need another one.

[EZM]

Doesn't look like it. But didn't check to hard.

ebay maybe?

Ps yes I am a fan of Abu Garcia bait casters.:happy0034:

Me too - my favorite reels. I checked the website and the variable speed retrieve really sounded like the greatest thing on the planet - but it looks like it is no longer available or not available in the small or mid sized models - maybe something on their super size salt water stuff perhaps.

I was ready to throw down some cash !!!! you had me at hello on this one ....:waiting4:

[huntsfurfish]

Me too - my favorite reels. I checked the website and the variable speed retrieve really sounded like the greatest thing on the planet - but it looks like it is no longer available or not available in the small or mid sized models - maybe something on their super size salt water stuff perhaps.

I was ready to throw down some cash !!!! you had me at hello on this one ....:waiting4:

Last one I bought was a pro max 2speed 6BB That appears to be the last years that I can find.

The other 2 were older XLT's

[fishnfoo]

Some really good information here. The more I look into gear ratios the more it seems to be a bit of a sham. Gear ratios themselves are really not that meaningful. Some reels that have a 6.4:1 ratio take in more than 30" of line per handle turn and others at ratios above 7:1 take in less than 30". I am starting to think it is better to choose a reel that can take in line at a high rate (27" - 32") because it gives you flexibility to vary your retrieve. It is true that at higher rates of retrieve you will produce less torque but when are you really going to need sustained high torque? Not fighting a big fish because you use the rod and drag system. Not bottom bouncing or trolling because you tend to get to the depth you want and leave it there. If you are throwing big baits for pike (plugs or spinners in shallow water, it would be an advantage to be able to run them rapidly. If you are using jerk baits, you only use the reel to take up slack. If you want to work a big heavy bait slowly and repeatedly, I can then see an advantage to increased torque, but I can't think of an application for this when fishing walleye or pike. Maybe there are salt water applications.

The annoying thing is that there are many articles out there saying that you need specific gear ratios for specific applications (cranking, pitching, spinnerbaits). It seems like the aim is to encourage the consumers to buy several reels. Buy reading customer reviews, customer Q&As and forums the consensus appears to be that high speed is the way to go. Interestingly, pro anglers all seem to be using the high speed reels and they often throw cranks or spinners all day long.

Looks like I am going to go with a high speed reel. That sure seems like a lot of smoke to get through to get to some real facts.

[EZM]

Some really good information here. The more I look into gear ratios the more it seems to be a bit of a sham. Gear ratios themselves are really not that meaningful. Some reels that have a 6.4:1 ratio take in more than 30" of line per handle turn and others at ratios above 7:1 take in less than 30". I am starting to think it is better to choose a reel that can take in line at a high rate (27" - 32") because it gives you flexibility to vary your retrieve. It is true that at higher rates of retrieve you will produce less torque but when are you really going to need sustained high torque? Not fighting a big fish because you use the rod and drag system. Not bottom bouncing or trolling because you tend to get to the depth you want and leave it there. If you are throwing big baits for pike (plugs or spinners in shallow water, it would be an advantage to be able to run them rapidly. If you are using jerk baits, you only use the reel to take up slack. If you want to work a big heavy bait slowly and repeatedly, I can then see an advantage to increased torque, but I can't think of an application for this when fishing walleye or pike. Maybe there are salt water applications.

The annoying thing is that there are many articles out there saying that you need specific gear ratios for specific applications (cranking, pitching, spinnerbaits). It seems like the aim is to encourage the consumers to buy several reels. Buy reading customer reviews, customer Q&As and forums the consensus appears to be that high speed is the way to go. Interestingly, pro anglers all seem to be using the high speed reels and they often throw cranks or spinners all day long.

Looks like I am going to go with a high speed reel. That sure seems like a lot of smoke to get through to get to some real facts.

I totally agree ..... for fishing reels - there is very little appreciable torque gain or loss associated with (between a "standard" 5:1 to a "high speed" 7:1 gear ratio) instead, a more significant factor in determining how well a reel performs it's desired function is based on quality.

The more bearings, the less loss of of efficiency due to friction, the tighter the tolerances are on the gears, the more amplified rotation is beneficently applied etc....

Buy a tight, good quality reel and you will be happy with it. But a piece of crap, no matter how perfect the gear ratio is and you will have it bind up, slip (loose torque) etc....

The premise of bait casters, by design are, going to produce a little better torque than a spinning reel - simply by design (gears are inline versus intersected).

Although the basic principles of mechanical advantage and gear ratios will tell you otherwise ..... in a low tech application like a fishing reel ...... it's just not that big of a deal ........

Marketing genius these companies ..... now go out and buy one of each ..... they are also available in different colors too - the red ones are better for trout !!!!!

[fishnfoo]

I totally agree ..... for fishing reels - there is very little appreciable torque gain or loss associated with (between a "standard" 5:1 to a "high speed" 7:1 gear ratio) instead, a more significant factor in determining how well a reel performs it's desired function is based on quality.

The more bearings, the less loss of of efficiency due to friction, the tighter the tolerances are on the gears, the more amplified rotation is beneficently applied etc....

Buy a tight, good quality reel and you will be happy with it. But a piece of crap, no matter how perfect the gear ratio is and you will have it bind up, slip (loose torque) etc....

The premise of bait casters, by design are, going to produce a little better torque than a spinning reel - simply by design (gears are inline versus intersected).

Although the basic principles of mechanical advantage and gear ratios will tell you otherwise ..... in a low tech application like a fishing reel ...... it's just not that big of a deal ........

Marketing genius these companies ..... now go out and buy one of each ..... they are also available in different colors too - the red ones are better for trout !!!!!

Well stated. I never really understood why some companies market how their rods and reels look. Last year I was shopping for a spinning rod and the sales person was trying to play up the fact that the rod looked really cool. My response was that I would use a "my little pony" rod and reel if it was proven to be more effective at catching fish. Isn't that the real point?

Getting back to baitcasters, I think the original reels had lower gear ratios (like the round reels do) and they have evolved to be faster (due to customer demand). The manufacturers have kept all the gear ratios that were produced during this evolutionary process (sorry all you creationists), initially due to some customers resistance to change, and have now turned it into a marketing tactic. It really is quite brilliant. There are always new entrants into this market, they see all these gear ratio options, read the literature and PRESTO more sales! That was my initial reaction, "why would they make all these different reels for no reason?". That was the reason for the initial post. I was seeing if there was something I was missing.

If torque was really an issue on these reels, the manufacturers would only have to make handles of different lengths (that could easily be interchangeable) to create a wide range of torques. Two, three and four inch handles would make a much larger difference than the gear ratios that are available.

Million dollar marketing but morally corrupt.

[fishnfoo]

Now that I have the gear ratio sorted out, all that is left is to choose the reel. As stated before, I am looking at the PBS pro qualifier. It looks a lot like a Pfluger Patriarch and is made for BPS by the same manufacturer. Revo reels are also made by the same group. This looks like the same strategy that Costco uses when they get Eskimo to make a special version of the Mako ice auger, call it a Tempest and sell it for substantially less. I am not stuck on brand names. If I can get a higher quality reel at a lower price point, I am all over it. Anyone using a PBS PQ?

[bwackwabbit]

I use a BPS Extreme (not the same model but similar). I'm three seasons in and only issue is it did "slip" when hauling in a 21# big girl @ Gull last year. Almost cost me the fish as she was digging hard for the bottom and it put slack in the line. It was like it went feeespool for a second or two. It's only done it the once and otherwise been a fantastic reel.

[Geezle]

Now that I have the gear ratio sorted out, all that is left is to choose the reel. As stated before, I am looking at the PBS pro qualifier. It looks a lot like a Pfluger Patriarch and is made for BPS by the same manufacturer. Revo reels are also made by the same group. This looks like the same strategy that Costco uses when they get Eskimo to make a special version of the Mako ice auger, call it a Tempest and sell it for substantially less. I am not stuck on brand names. If I can get a higher quality reel at a lower price point, I am all over it. Anyone using a PBS PQ?

It does look good, but it's hard to say for sure. Could be coming from the same manufacturer but built to a different price point with slightly lower quality components.

Personally I'd spend the extra $20 (but save on shipping?) and just pick up a Shimano Caenan locally.

But that's just me :)