Regulation question

[bigmac]

At what age or skill level do you think a child can start to have their own two lines when ice fishing? Here's the story

Was out at South Buck Saturday with 6 other adults and a whole wack load of kids. Had a bunch of tipups out and fish and wildlife stops by. Checks our licenses and such and then counts the number of tipups and says we have more than enough people to cover all the tipups. We asked him this question and his response was "as long as they can reel it up". So fair enough. My three year old can do that and with every fish I catch I am encouraging him to come over and help me reel.

Today My son and I were out on Wabamun fishing with 4 tipups. Two of them were rods with reels and the other two were not. Fish and wildlife stops by and asks how many tipups I have. Four! His response is that it is not legal as my son is too young. So I asked him what the age limit was because of what I was told yesterday at buck. His response was can he drill the hole himself to which I said no, then he can't have lines in. I have a 3 horse 10" jiffy that weighs about 50 pounds, if being able to drill your own holes is a requirement then my wife can't fish either I guess! So I told him what the guy on buck said and he took out his cell and phoned the guy to make sure that what I was saying was true. Came back and said that buck is not his jurisdiction but out here its not legal! He then said it's not like he could reel up a 10 pound jack or anything! So what if I'm fishing for perch then it's ok because he can reel those up but because we were fishing for big jacks it's illegal?:sign0161: He also gave me a case senerio (SP). He said say you and your dad are out here fishing with 4 tipups and your dad decides to go and sit in the truck and have lunch (which is 25 feet from the tipups) as soon as he does you are now poaching because your dad is not actively fishing! So I asked what the definition of active fishing is when you are using tipups to which he had no answer. I mentioned to him that it sounds like this ruling is quite subjective (being able to handle an auger) to which he replied that's the rules.

In the end he took my drivers license info. so that he could write this down as a warning but if I get caught again then it's ticket time! I took two of the tipups out and carried on my active fishing whatever that is. I looked thru the reg's quickly tonight and couldn't find anything specific to under 16 fishing but I didn't really look that hard.

P.S. The fishing at buck was slow couple of jacks and a ling all day. Wabamun was even slower. Talked to everyone around me and they had the same luck at wab. Was on the SW side of the lake.

[Kokanee9]

I would say that he was wrong. If he took your info, then you would be entered in their system. I would call the office explain the situation and request to have it removed.

[BeeGuy]

I would say when they can tie a clinch knot they are good to go.

Otherwise I would say around 6 or 7 depending on their experience.

They should be able to do most of the equipment management on their own.

If you are managing all of "their" gear then it is clear they are not fishing it, you are.

You failed to mention how old your child is.

I haven't met many kids under 7 that could do much more than manage their spiderman rod and a single hole.

I have witnessed people taking advantage of the regulations however.


Depending on the circumstances which you have not been fully clear on, I would say that in some situations the CO would be in their right to tell you to stop fishing your kids equipment for them.

Remember, the few ruin it for the many.

[RavYak]

I think 3 years old is a little too young...

The obvious answer to this would be when the kid is old enough he is actually the one watching the lines, reeling them in, putting the bait on etc. Until then you are just using him as an excuse to have more lines in the water...

So my answer to your situation is to use 3 lines, 2 for yourself and 1 for your kid. No officer will complain if the kid only has one line.

[pikergolf]

That's a tough one, I'd say the officer was in the wrong if the kid was actually fishing. My son was catching whites with a willow and some line at three, I didn't expect him to but he wanted his own rod, so I cut him a willow and rigged him up. I believe he caught two and lost a few that day, he needed help getting them out, but he was doing the jigging and hooking, so in his and my mind, he was definitely fishing.

Pike tip ups the kids always got to pull the fish out, didn't matter whose rig went down. All part of fishing with kids, they need action to keep them interested.

I guess the other side of that is, Dad dragging the kids along just to get an extra rod out, tough call.

[ghostguy6]

Best bet would be to email SRD and get it from them. If the reply is in your favor print it off and keep it with you incase said officer tries to stop you again.

[BeeGuy]

I think 3 years old is a little too young...


clearly they are not managing 2 set-ups

your kid can fish your gear, but it is against the reg's for you to fish theirs.

personally, I don't care either way

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Was it a fish and wildlife officer , or a conservation officer . That's the first question .

Now for some comments .

They are in forcing the laws well within reason I don't know how that officer can say as long as he can work an auger , my grandpa when he was alive couldnt lift an auger nevermind hold it while drilling holes he was 80 years old .

I have taken clients out fishing (female ) in her mid 40's had a difficult time reeling in a 10 lb pike . She of course had a license but pretty poor comparison .

I may not know the laws to a T but that one seems pretty insane , one officer tells you something than another something else , that's not how law enforcement works . They are Alberta fish and wildlife officers or Alberta conservation officers , not lake Wabamun conservation officer , or fish and wildlife officer .

If I were you you may want to make a phone call to the Edmonton or Stony plain office . Get the answer , then if that officer who told you the above information maybe give them there name so there Sargent can inform them of there wrong or correct information .

Those guys cannot be handing out conflicting information . After all there to be on the same them .

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/pdfs/hunting-regs/Further-Inquiries.pdf

[Kim473]

I think 3 years old is a little too young...

The obvious answer to this would be when the kid is old enough he is actually the one watching the lines, reeling them in, putting the bait on etc. Until then you are just using him as an excuse to have more lines in the water...

So my answer to your situation is to use 3 lines, 2 for yourself and 1 for your kid. No officer will complain if the kid only has one line.

X2

I would have pulled out my regs, shoved them in his face and said what page number are you quoting this rule from.

[QIsley]

Anyone under 16 can fish without a licence, there is not a minimum age but the child has to be fishing, actively looking after his/her own lines. The lines being claimed by the child have to be used by the child, not someone else.

If they are fishing at a waterbody that allows harvest they can catch and keep their own limit, they can only keep the legal fish that they catch. The fish caught by someone else does not go towards the child's limit.

[coors04]

Who cares how old the kids are or if they are paying attention all the time this is how you get them into fishing. Get them out and when they get bord ( 5 min ) let them go play with sticks or shovle show what ever and when there flag goes tell them and let the kid run like crazy to get it of its a fish to big for them to handle then dad or mom helps and then it's a perfact time to teach the young person about catch and release having to drill there own holes to be able to fish ( what a dick head ) would love to hear him tell some of the old boys who go out only when they know they can chip out someone else's hole fisheries guys like this are the reason the public has no respect for them anymore and he writes you a warning I think the long talk and dumb ass excuses were probably enough for anyone to never forget I'm sorry you ran into this dink well you err trying to injoy a day of fishing with your young guy and hope it doesn't stop you from going out with him in the future

[Chisholm77]

I agree this situation is ridiculous and as far as I am aware you are within the regs. However, my son is almost 4 and I will not be setting lines for him any time soon. As you said he can reel up a line... but that's about it. If a 3 year old had to manage their own line I don't think the hook would hit the water because all the ones I know just love reeling the line. I think setting lines for a child this young is taking advantage. It is great to take the little ones out though, I do it every chance I get.

[geezer55]

I would have pulled out my regs, shoved them in his face and said what page number are you quoting this rule from.

Discalimer from page 1 of the Alberta guide to sportfishing.

The Alberta Guide to Sportfishing Regulations is neither a legal document nor a
complete listing of current sportfishing regulations. It is a summary of the federal and provincial fishery regulations and is intended to assist those interested in sportfishing.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Anyone under 16 can fish without a licence, there is not a minimum age but the child has to be fishing, actively looking after his/her own lines. The lines being claimed by the child have to be used by the child, not someone else.

If they are fishing at a waterbody that allows harvest they can catch and keep their own limit, they can only keep the legal fish that they catch. The fish caught by someone else does not go towards the child's limit.

This is the opinion that matters here.....^^^^^^^

The answers given were to the contrary though....first it was if they could reel the fish up, then it was if they could drill their own holes....I guess my 10 year old boy who is small for his age cannot go fishing with me if the second interpretation applies....he can't use the auger and for safety reason he ain't going to either.

Also if you are having a sandwich in the truck but are within 30m of you lines/tip up....you can still be fishing right?

I agree that too many folks take advantage of the rods/lines per person rule.....go to a out and take trout pond to find out. If you have a 3 year old....and you catch a fish, have him come and help reel it in with you.

BUT if Dad is fishing 3-4 lines while the wife and kids play in the park....that is the kind of thing that frustrates me.

LC

[shanks]

Who cares how old the kids are or if they are paying attention all the time this is how you get them into fishing. Get them out and when they get bord ( 5 min ) let them go play with sticks or shovle show what ever and when there flag goes tell them and let the kid run like crazy to get it of its a fish to big for them to handle then dad or mom helps and then it's a perfact time to teach the young person about catch and release having to drill there own holes to be able to fish ( what a dick head ) would love to hear him tell some of the old boys who go out only when they know they can chip out someone else's hole fisheries guys like this are the reason the public has no respect for them anymore and he writes you a warning I think the long talk and dumb ass excuses were probably enough for anyone to never forget I'm sorry you ran into this dink well you err trying to injoy a day of fishing with your young guy and hope it doesn't stop you from going out with him in the futurethanks for saving me all the typing

[crosbyfan123]

Thats why F&W have such bad reputations and then they wonder why nobody likes them. :sign0161:

[Safety D]

I got harrased at Wab a few weeks ago. Fishing the exact spot with exact set up two weekends in a row. Checked the first time no problem have a good day ( Nice guy ). Second time got the run around and was written a warning ticket for being to far from my tip up. Guy was kind of a dinkl. Was there for a half hour. Write the ticket and move on. People dont want the fish cops around if there going to be dinks about it.

[silverdoctor]

Discalimer from page 1 of the Alberta guide to sportfishing.

The Alberta Guide to Sportfishing Regulations is neither a legal document nor a
complete listing of current sportfishing regulations. It is a summary of the federal and provincial fishery regulations and is intended to assist those interested in sportfishing.

Yep, not a legal document. When in doubt, check the fisheries act. Better yet, print it off and keep it on your person.

Canada fisheries act:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-14/

Alberta fisheries act:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-98-246.pdf

[RavYak]

I got harrased at Wab a few weeks ago. Fishing the exact spot with exact set up two weekends in a row. Checked the first time no problem have a good day ( Nice guy ). Second time got the run around and was written a warning ticket for being to far from my tip up. Guy was kind of a dinkl. Was there for a half hour. Write the ticket and move on. People dont want the fish cops around if there going to be dinks about it.

Were you over 30m (100 ft) away? If so then you were in the wrong. If not now you know and can ask him to measure it next time.

[chriscosta]

idk my kids all had time fishing around three they didnt have tip ups but they did learn around this age my four year old got an 8 pounder last winter she was three at the time and this summer did fine with walleye i bait the hooks and drill the holes but its also my unwritten job to do so as my kids are all girls i also unhook their fish too for safety reasons but i wouldnt give them more lines than they can handle i doubt a three yr old can manage two tip ups but im also sure it aint illegal if your charged ever fight it in court youll win

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Anyone under 16 can fish without a licence, there is not a minimum age but the child has to be fishing, actively looking after his/her own lines. The lines being claimed by the child have to be used by the child, not someone else.

If they are fishing at a waterbody that allows harvest they can catch and keep their own limit, they can only keep the legal fish that they catch. The fish caught by someone else does not go towards the child's limit.

X2 what lefty said this fella is in the know . I was hoping you'd post . See ya in the summer .

[QIsley]

Thats why F&W have such bad reputations and then they wonder why nobody likes them. :sign0161:

Only people that don't like to follow the rules don't like them.. LOL

I love the officer bashing on here...
Officers get more flack when they use warnings to educate people about the rules then it is worth.

Read the regs, can't be more than 30 meters from your line, a person can't use more than 2 lines in the ice....

Officers job is to enforce the rules. They don't make the rules.

They can issue warnings instead of tickets if they believe that is what is required to ensure compliance with the rules. If you think you are getting a warning for something that you believe is legal ask for the ticket so you can have your day in court. :)

[EZM]

Only people that don't like to follow the rules don't like them.. LOL

I love the officer bashing on here...
Officers get more flack when they use warnings to educate people about the rules then it is worth.

Read the regs, can't be more than 30 meters from your line, a person can't use more than 2 lines in the ice....

Officers job is to enforce the rules. They don't make the rules.

They can issue warnings instead of tickets if they believe that is what is required to ensure compliance with the rules. If you think you are getting a warning for something that you believe is legal ask for the ticket so you can have your day in court. :)

Q,

I mean this comment with the upmost respect .... because I know some the crap you guys have to deal with and I thank you guys for protecting our resources.

BUT, I have to say this, one of your guys that works Wabamun occasionally is not the best representative of good manners and behavior becoming a person of authority.

He is not an individual who makes you want to respect his authority and people don't react well to this guy.

To say the only people who complain about poor officer conduct are breaking the law is absolute garbage and you know it. I have never broken the law in my life and have held numerous positions, including senior executive, in conservation groups/clubs etc....and ...... ironically...... I had issues with one of these guys at Wabamun too a few years back.

Problem was .... he was 100% offside and 100% wrong ..... and he was upset that I pointed this out to him and became more belligerent ....but that's water under the bridge.

I'm not going to wade into this particular matter because I'm not sure how old the OP's kid was - in my mind, if the kid is old enough to tend his line (maybe 6-7 years old) with a little help, he should be allowed one line. If the kid is older (say 9-10) maybe 2 lines through the ice is fine for him. But that's just my interpretation of the law and it's ethical application.

[npauls]

My 3 year old baits his own hooks, reels in his own fish, and will take them off of the hook as long as they aren't to big to handle. The only thing I do for him is net his fish, tie on new hooks, and pinch barbs.

If that officer came and talked to me about it I would ask him politely to hang around to check out the show.

I drill tons of holes when I am ice fishing and usually drill holes for everyone I fish with so does that mean none of them are legal to fish?

I would say take your kid out and let him have his lines to watch. If that officer does give you a fine I would take it to court and have it thrown out.

And officers wonder why they aren't respected. :snapoutofit:

[jhl]

The F&W position is a career for a person that enjoys and respects the outdoors and helps to protect it an ensure it stays that way. It is thankless at times unfortunately lately it seems the provincial government will accept anyone with a pulse for the job much like the conservative cabinet we currently have. In this case it seems like the officer was tripping on his position of authority and should have been told to crap or get off the pot. Take the ticket and meet him in court and show everyone what a dick he was. If we don't encourage young people to enjoy the outdoors we all lose. Much better to get a hook stuck in a finger than have callouses on their thumbs. Just my opinion.

[waterninja]

interesting thread. personally i can't wait to get my grandson out fishing and he will be 3 this year. when i do take him out (maybe this summer or next) i know that i will have to do most of the work but whether a fish bites my hook or his, he will be the one reeling it in with an assist from grandpa. the main thing is that he will be out there learning and hopefully making good memories.

being able to to drill your own hole through 3 feet of ice as a yardstick for being legal to fish is the stupidest thing iv'e read on this site. i would not expect my wife (who's a great angler) or my 80 year old father to man the drill unless they wanted to. god forbid someone with a physical handicap run into this particular officer.

[Kyle]

The guy sounds like a real ****. I would have reported him to his supervisor. Clearly he was just making up rules as you questioned him. What a way to turn a kid off to fishing.

[WalleyeDeitz]

Sorry after reading all of this I felt I had to reply. I have taken my 3 year old ice fishing many times and I also drill 2 holes for each of us, therefore setting 4 tip ups. I hope there are no WANTED posters up for my arrest. My goal - to get her into fishing as much as I am so I don’t have to leave my family at home to do what I love. For her...and me watching her, it is all about the amount of action. Yes setting 4 tip ups is advantage over 2 tip ups, but there are two of us to enjoy the action and until now I never had the slightest thought that I may be breaking a regulation. I personally am not seeking this advantage to get more fish to eat (usually let em go), possibly being viewed by some as taking advantage of the resource, however I am seeking an advantage on increasing the amount of action which leads to increased enjoyment for my daughter. How far do some of you want to take it, as to be honest, I even let her real in the ones that bite my line......I cant believe what a ***** I am for training her to be a criminal, perhaps I should just purchase her an I-pad and have her stay at home so I do not subject her to this type of criminal activity in the future.

I respect conservation officers greatly, and have met several that are amazing at there job and have excellent people skills. In fact I got a warning ticket recently for having a beer on the ice while fishing with a friend...the officer was respectful in delivering her message, I understood, and she headed on her way. Sounds as though your run in was with an officer that doesn’t have the best people skills. That’s too bad, and in their role of serving the public, I am confident they won’t be in the industry long.

Ice fishing for pike - My daughter requires help. Anything else, as per NPauls msg. you would be surprised at how good she is, from putting on leeches to reeling them in all on her own.......and I have a hell of a smile on my face as she's always asking when she can go fishing next....mission accomplished.

My thoughts, it would be great if you could follow up with ESRD's main office on this topic, as it makes me sad to hear of a negative experience, especially in front of a child you are teaching about nature. I saw an officer once delicately give a neighbouring fishermen crap for doing something illegal, then he spent 15 minutes talking to the kid and explaining what fish do etc. I found myself thinking "wow, that guy is good at his job as he gave a warning without the kid knowing what was going on, and made that child think fish cops are cool, which will only help that kid respect them and our resources in the future, not to mentioned gaining the fathers respect for not making him look bad in front of his kid". If it was nowadays, I would have got that guys name and called in a compliment to ensure his positive attitude was acknowledged.

Would be great to hear what the official ruling on this topic would be. Although, perhaps it depends on the officers discretion on the given situation, as with all rules someone is always trying to take advantage.

Tight Lines....

[QIsley]

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, sometimes events that get reported here are far different from another point of view.....

[EZM]

At the end of the day these guys are out there protecting our resource and I will do everything I can to support them.

It's unfortunate, but like all occupations, there are a couple "drunk with power jerks" .....

To be frank, I'd rather see the CO or FW guy everyday I'm on the lake ........ and if I have to deal with one bad apple ...... I will count myself lucky.

Look at all the jerks at our workplace ........ lol ..... they are everywhere ......then again, most people at work are pretty good ....

[nekred]

When it comes to the law lots is open to interpretation and the biggest being intent!...

If I saw this situation a man out with two kids with 6 tip-ups out and the kids are 8/9 and not paying attention to the lines, running around, playing in a park constantly running off while dad watches the tip-ups,,, then when a fish is on he calls to the boys but they are too busy doing SOMETHING ELSE to reel in the fish... pretty easy to interpret the intent of having 6 tip-ups out...

Or if you saw a situation where there is an very intense 4 year old who is running around to each hole checking to see if there is a fish, or when a tip up flag goes up...beating the adults to the tip-up in excitement and doing their best to pull a fish up until an adult steps in to assist .... very different intent could be interpreted here

In most dealings with officers that i have had, they have interpreted the intent properly and dealt with it accordingly.

I have also experienced when a young fisherman gets very tired and then gets into the truck for a nap and then two tip-ups get pulled up because they are no longer fishing.

We need to be reasonable if we want offciers to be reasonable ourselves.

[coors04]

Sorry after reading all of this I felt I had to reply. I have taken my 3 year old ice fishing many times and I also drill 2 holes for each of us, therefore setting 4 tip ups. I hope there are no WANTED posters up for my arrest. My goal - to get her into fishing as much as I am so I don’t have to leave my family at home to do what I love. For her...and me watching her, it is all about the amount of action. Yes setting 4 tip ups is advantage over 2 tip ups, but there are two of us to enjoy the action and until now I never had the slightest thought that I may be breaking a regulation. I personally am not seeking this advantage to get more fish to eat (usually let em go), possibly being viewed by some as taking advantage of the resource, however I am seeking an advantage on increasing the amount of action which leads to increased enjoyment for my daughter. How far do some of you want to take it, as to be honest, I even let her real in the ones that bite my line......I cant believe what a ***** I am for training her to be a criminal, perhaps I should just purchase her an I-pad and have her stay at home so I do not subject her to this type of criminal activity in the future.

I respect conservation officers greatly, and have met several that are amazing at there job and have excellent people skills. In fact I got a warning ticket recently for having a beer on the ice while fishing with a friend...the officer was respectful in delivering her message, I understood, and she headed on her way. Sounds as though your run in was with an officer that doesn’t have the best people skills. That’s too bad, and in their role of serving the public, I am confident they won’t be in the industry long.

Ice fishing for pike - My daughter requires help. Anything else, as per NPauls msg. you would be surprised at how good she is, from putting on leeches to reeling them in all on her own.......and I have a hell of a smile on my face as she's always asking when she can go fishing next....mission accomplished.

My thoughts, it would be great if you could follow up with ESRD's main office on this topic, as it makes me sad to hear of a negative experience, especially in front of a child you are teaching about nature. I saw an officer once delicately give a neighbouring fishermen crap for doing something illegal, then he spent 15 minutes talking to the kid and explaining what fish do etc. I found myself thinking "wow, that guy is good at his job as he gave a warning without the kid knowing what was going on, and made that child think fish cops are cool, which will only help that kid respect them and our resources in the future, not to mentioned gaining the fathers respect for not making him look bad in front of his kid". If it was nowadays, I would have got that guys name and called in a compliment to ensure his positive attitude was acknowledged.

Would be great to hear what the official ruling on this topic would be. Although, perhaps it depends on the officers discretion on the given situation, as with all rules someone is always trying to take advantage.

Tight Lines....

Thank you better said then what I posted and I to have to say I have ran into a few fish cops and had some very positive talks but sadly more very rude ones and no I didn't start it and no I was not doing anything wrong and have never been ticketed some of them just really need people skills lessions and learn that when some one is trying to give as much info as possible to smile and say thanks

[fickell]

Who cares how old the kids are or if they are paying attention all the time this is how you get them into fishing. Get them out and when they get bord ( 5 min ) let them go play with sticks or shovle show what ever and when there flag goes tell them and let the kid run like crazy to get it of its a fish to big for them to handle then dad or mom helps and then it's a perfact time to teach the young person about catch and release having to drill there own holes to be able to fish ( what a dick head ) would love to hear him tell some of the old boys who go out only when they know they can chip out someone else's hole fisheries guys like this are the reason the public has no respect for them anymore and he writes you a warning I think the long talk and dumb ass excuses were probably enough for anyone to never forget I'm sorry you ran into this dink well you err trying to injoy a day of fishing with your young guy and hope it doesn't stop you from going out with him in the future

x2 well said