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View Full Version : Thorsby "pigeon lake" meeting


Duffy4
04-25-2007, 01:13 AM
Did you ever hear the story of the blind brothers at the circus who all experienced an elephant by touching and feeling it?
Afterwards they were talking about the elephant and one who had felt the tail said "An elephant is like a long rope with a fuzzy bit on the end and it smells like crap" Another brother had been at the other end feeling the trunk and he said "Oh no an elephant is very thick and muscular and sniffs and makes odd noises and twists and moves a lot". The brother who had been touching the beasts ear said"I figured an elephant is very wide and flat and flaps around a lot". The last brother had bumped into a leg and had explored it up and down and all around. "An elephant" he said "is like a big thick tree trunk strong and tall".

{It was late when I posted this and I kind of left something out. The elephant story needs to be tied in. There were anglers there with knowledge and concern for perch. There were others who’s big issue was white-fish. Still others wanted to know how to bring back the pike. They each had a narrow focus on the fishery at Pigeon Lake. The fisheries Bio. was the only one who seemed to see the BIG PICTURE, the whole elephant.}
They were all partly right but they all had only an insight into part of what an elephant is.

And thats what I thought of the big meeting in Thorsby tonight. If Fisheries management at pigeon lake is like the elephant, most of the people there did not know much about it. They all had their ideas and viewpoints about it but each was only a bit relavent.

The fisheries Bio from Reddeer gave a pretty good powerpoint on what had been going on in pigeon for a number of years. I got the feeling that most of his scientific explanations went well over the heads of a lot of the audience. But to me he was showing that SCIENCE was the basis of his management decisions. And I like to see that. Then came comments and questions from the floor.

"Me and my brother caught well I' say abouy 300 of them walleyes one day and not a coton pickin perch. We gotta kill off a bunch of them walleyes so they woun't eat all the perch".
And "My uncle John says they used to bring home sack of big jackfish 20 years ago. I notice now that there are only little jacks in the lake and hear other fishermen saying the same. We gotta catch and keep more of them pickeral so the other fish can get something to eat. And another think, I think the tag system is a cash grab"
And on and on. No science or proovable information.

Now there are people with real concerns and suggestions and the bio listened to them and agreed with some of what they said. He said he was awear of some of the problems and they were looking at all sides (The whole elephant).

Harvest of walleye is something that most people wanted to see. Well last year there was a draw and controlled harvest by permits. The number of people willing to get a permit and use it was far less than F&W had expected. So this year they have increased the number of fish a permit holder can keep and lengthened the season. It is the second year of a 2 year pilot project.

The Bio is using the draw-permits like a screw driver to "fine tune the system". At the meeting the organiser asked for a "motion" and seconder then had a show of hands "vote" TO ALLOW ANY ANGLER, WHO COULD LEGALLY FISH, TO KILL ONE WALLEYE PER DAY FOR THE OPEN WATER FISHING SEASON. They want to "fine tune the system" with a sledge hammer.

The government hires educated Bios to use science to manage our fisheries. There is a place for "public input and voicing concerns". It is important for gov't to listen to the public and dialoge with them at these types of meetings. However, the public can not be allowed to take hold of the steering wheel and drive the fisheries management of pigeon lake.

Robin in Rocky

sheep hunter
04-25-2007, 01:36 AM
Thanks for the update Duffy, I was wondering how things went. I was at a fisheries meeting in Calgary tonight but it sounds boring compared to the one in Thorsby. LOL Good to see the government taking all public input into consideration though. But still glad they are managing according to science!

SNAPFisher
04-25-2007, 11:35 AM
Duffy, damn good summary of the night! You and I agree on all your points. This was my first public meeting on fishing.

I came with a very similar attitude like many of the anglers that were there. I had convinced myself that opening the lake and taking out the walleye would be a smart thing. I also had little idea of what fisheries is doing to manage AB lakes. The good part, I also came with an open mind to learn.

By the end of the CO's presentation (Vance I think) I took a complete 180 in thinking. The science made all the difference. At first I was a bit put off by the graphs but through listening I become intensely interested in what the CO was presenting and ended up learning how lakes like Pigeon are managed. I will not look again with a blind eye or "arm chair" attitude. Sure there are things that they are also learning about and don't have all the answers, but, fisheries are truly managing with science...that makes sense!

One example, I originally assumed that millions of walleye that were stocked that there must be millions in Pigeon. Wrong! As the CO proved with science there are an estimated 280,000 as of 2006. Given the shear number of anglers and angling hours, average hooking mortality, etc. that many walleye wouldn't stand a chance against an uncontrolled limit (open). Even 3 weeks would be too much as proven in the example of Long Lake.

I wish that many of the others would have shown up with open minds. Unfortunately the demographic in there was pretty one-sided, a majority in this case.

I was sitting on the steps wayyyyyy at the back since we came in late. Where were you sitting?

I'm glad I went. It was a good opportunity to learn.

Cheers!

Pigeon
04-25-2007, 12:15 PM
I was not at the meeting, so if I'm reading the posts correctly it seems that F&W/SRD will manage Pigeon Lake by how the scientific data points them and not how public pressure wants it? Is this the case?

If so I’m all for it. I like the draw system. It’s thinking outside of the box in my opinion. The last thing I want to see is a total cull on Walleye because the majority of the public wants it or thinks it's necessary. One can’t argue with facts.

SNAPFisher
04-25-2007, 12:36 PM
The vast majority in attendance wants to see Pigeon opened up for a 1 or 2 walleye per day limit. They want to see a dramatic decrease in the walleye population.

My best guess is that fisheries will continue to manage as planned. I think they got a lot of input at the meeting. Hopefully the input to "open the limit" will be taken and reviewed ....hopefully dealt with in the same scientific approach.

I originally disagreed with tag system. I do not disagree with it anymore. In fact, I'm going to participate in the undrawn tags starting April 27th. They are having a bit of a struggle in selling it but it is a two-year pilot project - this being the 2nd year. With the lower uptake it may be found that the impact is not as significant as original estimates. That will likely change and shape the approach for the future. Input from the public will play an important role in this as well.

FiveO
04-25-2007, 02:41 PM
Glad to hear a few of you could make it to the meeting and thanks for posting the results.
I am curious as to what is exactly meant by they are looking after the lake with science?. What sort of science?.

It’s like someone saying; Hey I’m a politician and I’m taking care of it trust me!

sheep hunter
04-25-2007, 02:44 PM
FiveO.....there has been some pretty intesive monitoring on Pigeon for the past few years and it seems they have a really good handle on walleye populations and age structure and the pressure being put on them by anglers.

FiveO
04-25-2007, 02:55 PM
Do you know were a person can get the information collected?.
I would like more information on the other species in the lake and population estimates from a historical perspective to today.

One more thing i would like to find out is the increase of angler licences over the last decade?.

Any idea were to find?

sheep hunter
04-25-2007, 02:58 PM
Buchwald, Vance
Area Fisheries Biologist
Fish and Wildlife
Sustainable Resource Development
4th fl First Red Deer Place
4911 - 51 Street
Red Deer, AB
T4N 6V4

Phone: 403 340-5356
Fax: 403 340-5575
E-mail: vance.buchwald@gov.ab.ca

Pigeon
04-25-2007, 03:14 PM
It sounds like there has been lots of monitoring of the fish at Pigeon which is great, but having fished there a few dozen times over the past 5 years, the thing that was sorely missed was the monitoring of the anglers. I have never been stopped once at Pigeon, which means a lot of other anglers were not as well. With virtually no enforcement on this lake it is not hard to figure where all the 4-6 lb and larger year classes went.What a shame, as Pigeon lake was bordering on a world class walleye fishery about 4 years ago, and although there are still lots of walleye in the lake the average size is the same as many other lakes now. I still believe catch and release is a management tool that we will always have in Alberta (for walleye anyway) but without the enforcement to back it up, it sort of defeats the purpose. A lesson learned (the hard way) for F/W.

RockyMtnx
04-25-2007, 03:34 PM
Great summary Duffy.
PS I like the copy that you are sending to the editor of the Wetaskiwin Times.

FiveO
04-25-2007, 04:14 PM
Thanks Sheep. You wouldnt happen to know who the contact is for Lac Saint Anne?.

sheep hunter
04-25-2007, 05:19 PM
Not sure FiveO but all that info is readily available on the SRD web site as is some of the study info.