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View Full Version : Shooting the line... fly fishing


WildOrchid
05-19-2013, 08:32 PM
Wondering if there is any one that could explain how to get the distance on the line out when fly fishing. ..? My timings decent, my line is out there and then it falls 4ft in front like a limp noodle :/

I have watched a decent amount of videos and spent time behind the fly rod but can't seem to get my line to land out as far as I'm able to get it going.. I have a feeling it has to do with my timing but thinking more to it.

I'm pretty solo, not many friends that fish let alone fly fish. Any advice would be very much appreciated :)

DiabeticKripple
05-19-2013, 08:37 PM
pause for a brief second on your back cast, to allow the line to catch up, then cast forward stopping at like a 30 degree angle above the water, and let go of the line. im not very good at it yet but i can get 10+ feet out on a cast

lannie
05-19-2013, 08:44 PM
Get a friend who can cast to watch you at the school ground. You might think your timing is good but someone watching you will be a better judge of that.
You are not letting the rod load up before you move it forward. Try to false cast as little as possible and do not worry about distance. Put line down on the grass straight in front of you and in one motion back cast, wait for line to load the rod then short forward arc and the line will go straight out. Do this without the false cast, it will help you get the timing right.

Gust
05-19-2013, 08:57 PM
how much line are you attempting to throw?

Everybody has a different technique. When I'm stripping my line in, I gather 6 thru 8foot lengths on each digit of my left hand,, then when I'm chucking again, I can release shorter lengths efficiently for distance as opposed to trying to get a huge length out at once,, if this makes sense. Though I'm not into distance casting.

What weight rod are you using?

WildOrchid
05-19-2013, 08:57 PM
Thank you.. very good things to try/work on. Perhaps I'm rushing it. I worry that if my line lays it will catch on something so try to keep it in motion. Mind over matter perhaps..?

I was out west today, first time this year and picked up where I left off. Not bad but no good.. lol..

I'll give it a try shortly. . Makes sense..

Most appreciated! :)

billie
05-19-2013, 08:58 PM
Really hard to say without seeing you cast but I'm going to guess that your title may be your issue, "shooting". Shooting the line is the result, not the action. YOU do not shoot the line, your rod does.

There is a reason that the line and rod are "weighted" to match. The line must travel to the end of its path and then you pull tension into the rod in the opposite direction (load it), hold, and the ROD shoots the line from the kinetic energy in it.

This is why you must hesitate at the back cast before you "load" the rod. If the line action jerks, much of the momentum is lost, which tends to happen more at the limits of your personal casting distance. If it is smooth and timed properly, you will indeed, shoot the line.

Maybe try to watch a video and slow count while the fisherman does his cast, then close your eyes and go through the motions with your slow count. Are you jumping ahead? A half second is all the difference.

Good luck. Even when the fish aren't cooperating, it's a true pleasure playing with a fly rod and working the winds and water.

Edit; Damn, do I ever type slow :(

billie
05-19-2013, 09:03 PM
I worry that if my line lays it will catch on something so try to keep it in motion.

Cast over land and back cast over the water, then lay down your back cast. This way you can not worry about hooking up behind you. Works pretty good when the bank behind you is high and close.

WildOrchid
05-19-2013, 09:03 PM
how much line are you attempting to throw?

Everybody has a different technique. When I'm stripping my line in, I gather 6 thru 8foot lengths on each digit of my left hand,, then when I'm chucking again, I can release shorter lengths efficiently for distance as opposed to trying to get a huge length out at once,, if this makes sense. Though I'm not into distance casting.

What weight rod are you using?

I would say 6-8 feet. I'm not 100% on how much line goes out at once (an arms length perhaps), not enough to lose good form that I can see and i can always seem to control it until i go to shoot it out.. then it dies mid flight lol... Rods in my trunk, i'll check but was just a beginner set from Can. Tire.

Much appreciated, thank you.

WildOrchid
05-19-2013, 09:10 PM
Cast over land and back cast over the water, then lay down your back cast. This way you can not worry about hooking up behind you. Works pretty good when the bank behind you is high and close.

Hmmm I did watch that a few times over (video).. getting my motions to match seems to be a whole new trick. I'll keep working on it.. pretty sure its User Error. :S. Lol...

I like the idea with back casting over water with my front to the land.. I haven't been able to track down waders small enough to fit so haven't ventured out in the water ways yet.. this will most definitely help. Awesome thanks!

Very true, even if the fish aren't biting there is something about it.. thought of that today listening to my line as it would move over my right side.

Mikezilk
05-19-2013, 10:09 PM
Biggest things are does your line weight match your rod weight?

Are you using weight forward line or double taper?

Where are you located?

WildOrchid
05-19-2013, 10:51 PM
Biggest things are does your line weight match your rod weight?

Are you using weight forward line or double taper?

Where are you located?

I apologize as I am pretty green. The rod and reel did not have the info on it. It is the Martin combo... 5/6 preloaded reel with a 3 piece 8'ft fly rod. I assumed it was my error or lack of experience with the motions rather than matching the weight. Good to know that this is important.

The sales person I bought it from though teaches fly fishing out by a hostel around Nordegg. She didn't mention that however.

I'm out by Red Deer. Fish normally west of here.

MtnGiant
05-19-2013, 10:54 PM
listen to Lannie

billie
05-19-2013, 11:02 PM
listen to Lannie

Read his opening post:rolleye2:

Morph1
05-19-2013, 11:15 PM
Most important thing is to not force it, less force more controlled movement. U can watch your line just turn your head back and forth and u will figure it out . Lots of folks think the harder u wip it farther ya gonna cast which is wrong. Try to glide it gently and with right timing. The results can be surprising....

pikergolf
05-19-2013, 11:50 PM
Go to a park pull out 50' of line and start false casting, watch your line to get the timing. As you do this you will start to feel the line through your rod, loading and unloading, then slowly while you are false casting continue to feed line out while continuing to feel the rod, load and unload. Build distance slowly, just stay connected to feeling the rod load and unload, as you do this through the season you will soon add distance without even thinking about it. Your furthest casts will come without really trying, when you try for distance you'll loss the timing and things will fall apart. As you gain experience you will develop a feel for how hard to push your rod, this takes time and experience. Study videos on double hauling, but stay within yourself, it will come, I don't know of anyone that could just start firing bullets out there after a few trips, although for someone involved in timing sports ie. golf, it probably comes easier than to most.

Experiment in the park with different line lengths, you will probably have a best distance with your combo. From this you will learn to adjust your casting stroke for different distances.

Twobits
05-20-2013, 01:44 AM
While im fairly green as well (2 Years on the fly). I may be able to give some pointers. I usually fish Nimelas or Hanson's trout ponds a couple days every week.

tight line
05-20-2013, 01:55 AM
Keeping your line clean with line cleaner/wax helps as well

midgetwaiter
05-20-2013, 04:03 AM
It sounds like you aren't stopping your casting arm and you might be dropping your hand a bit.

When you cast you need to make a crisp stop with your hand, the motion is described as a speed up to a stop by many casting instructors. You can practice this really easily with a paintbrush, dip it in some water and try to flick as much as you can off the end. A smooth motion with an definite stop will transfer the most energy then the line will shoot itself.

Check out this video:
http://howtoflyfish.orvis.com/video-lessons/chapter-one-the-basics-of-fly-fishing/234-casting-what-a-fly-rod-needs-to-do

It's also important that you keep your hand there until the line has laid out all the way. You don't have to wait until it hits the ground but it has to be strait before you drop the tip of the rod. I still do this when I'm tired or distracted sometimes.

The best example of this is something you would do on purpose in some situation called the pile cast. It's used to throw slack into your leader in moving water. This video shows it nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6uHddBAH7g

If the tip of your line is falling down in a pile like that you are dropping the rod tip too early.

Mikezilk
05-20-2013, 08:15 AM
I am in Red Deer as well. If you want to meet up and see if we can try to correct the issue I would be happy to help. I have a practice rod that is 4'4" and has a practice line works great to watch form.

Let me know. you can text or call me

403-392-1922

I might head out kayak fishing today somewhere, but try getting a hold of me if you want.

Mike

MrDave
05-20-2013, 09:25 AM
Wondering if there is any one that could explain how to get the distance on the line out when fly fishing. ..? My timings decent, my line is out there and then it falls 4ft in front like a limp noodle :/

I have watched a decent amount of videos and spent time behind the fly rod but can't seem to get my line to land out as far as I'm able to get it going.. I have a feeling it has to do with my timing but thinking more to it.

I'm pretty solo, not many friends that fish let alone fly fish. Any advice would be very much appreciated :)

Always willing to help out, if you have a bit of time this week. I have been flinging flies for 30 years now and like to pass on the knowledge. My bet is you are using your arm more than you should, that costs you all the energy your rod generates. But can't say for sure until I see your cast. Good luck to you, feel free to contact me if you want.

Doc
05-20-2013, 10:05 AM
If you have the basic mechanics down, I can tell you your problem right now. You're releasing your fly line to early on your final cast (when you shoot). On your back cast, make sure that after your abrupt stop, you wait for the line to straighten and load your rod. Once straight, make your forward cast and stop abruptly at 10:00 but do not let go of your fly line until after the abrupt stop. If you let go to soon you'll loose all the energy (load) built up in your rod and your line won't go anywhere. If you let go to late, your line will spring back at you. It's just a split second after you make the abrupt stop. I see this all the time and 90% of the problem when client's are having an issue shooting line is simply a timing issue when releasing the line. Also make sure you have at minimum 15ft of line out to practice with. You need enough line to put a decent load on your rod to shoot line, try about 15-25ft of line when practicing shooting with lots of slack line lying at your feet.

Cheers,
Doc

WildOrchid
05-20-2013, 12:18 PM
Twobits - perhaps I might catch up with you. I have yet to be at either pond. I found directions to Hansons but no clue on Nimelas.

Midgetwaiter - thanks for the links and videos and advice. . I'll certainly check them out. My cell isn't loading them well so hopefully at work tomorrow.

Mike & MrDave - Very much appreciated. I'll try a few things and just may be in touch.

Doc - very well put.. now to try to sink the mind with the body :S. And put it in proper practice.

I have a feeling I know my error. So have a few things to try further to ALL of your guys information (not just the names mentioned above).

So far as I know I love doing it even though I currently suck lol... I have seen a ton of improper form (playing cowboy and trying to rope the fish may be the most common lol ).. but I want to do this and do it well so I really do appreciate everyones feedback, thoughts and insights.

I'm shy and hate asking for help so I am extremely grateful for the positive replys on here. You guys are awesome. Thank you! :)

Pikebreath
05-20-2013, 12:27 PM
It's been alluded already,,,,, but if you are applying too much force early in your final cast (very common mistake as we try to maximize our casting distance) you will a create a tailing loop which will "dump the leader and last few feet of line" as you describe. The key to avoiding tailing loops is accelerate to a sudden stop.,,,Think of hitting a nail with a hammer or chopping a chickens head off.... When do you want the force applied to the stroke? At the beginning or the end of the stroke?

If you are not throwing a tailing loop, then Doc's advise is right on.

BobLoblaw
05-20-2013, 02:17 PM
Edit; Damn, do I ever type slow :(

That's because whenever you get to the end of a line, you pause to let it load up... :p

Mountain Guy
05-20-2013, 05:47 PM
Holy... you guys should put on a camp. Great advice!
Couples things I'll add.
Firstly, hate to say it and if the budget allows you should upgrade that Maartin combo. I bought a Martin combo reel/line once and if yours is anything like mine was it didn't cast. Sorry to say it but good fly line is a must, and you get what u pay for.
Imagine on your forward release that your flicking a spoon full of mashed potatoes.
And use the wind to your advantage. Even the slightest breeze in your face will shorten your casts a lot.

billie
05-20-2013, 06:43 PM
That's because whenever you get to the end of a line, you pause to let it load up... :p

:) good one! :)

Less pause? Now I gotta practise :sHa_shakeshout:

WildOrchid
05-20-2013, 08:00 PM
Holy... you guys should put on a camp. Great advice!
Couples things I'll add.
Firstly, hate to say it and if the budget allows you should upgrade that Maartin combo. I bought a Martin combo reel/line once and if yours is anything like mine was it didn't cast. Sorry to say it but good fly line is a must, and you get what u pay for.
Imagine on your forward release that your flicking a spoon full of mashed potatoes.
And use the wind to your advantage. Even the slightest breeze in your face will shorten your casts a lot.

To be honest I wanted to try my hand at it. Was skeptical so didn't want to spend much but now I really enjoy it. Eventually I will upgrade just not in the cards currently.

I went down to the river today.. to shallow but was able to practice and feel out different things. I was also able to get a bit more distance but still have a ways to go.

I gave up after an inner tube with blaring music and s* rats decided 30 yards downstream was the place to be and banked on the rocks until i left... then the buggers hopped bank in and floated away. :/ should have hooked their boat... motivation to get my line out . :p. Lol

A lot to be said with secluded spots or people with decent manners.

Mountain Guy
05-21-2013, 06:34 AM
Ya, you shoulda practiced your casting towards them!
A big streamer hooked in their check could have made things interesting :)

WildOrchid
05-21-2013, 09:05 AM
It sounds like you aren't stopping your casting arm and you might be dropping your hand a bit.

When you cast you need to make a crisp stop with your hand, the motion is described as a speed up to a stop by many casting instructors. You can practice this really easily with a paintbrush, dip it in some water and try to flick as much as you can off the end. A smooth motion with an definite stop will transfer the most energy then the line will shoot itself.

Check out this video:
http://howtoflyfish.orvis.com/video-lessons/chapter-one-the-basics-of-fly-fishing/234-casting-what-a-fly-rod-needs-to-do

It's also important that you keep your hand there until the line has laid out all the way. You don't have to wait until it hits the ground but it has to be strait before you drop the tip of the rod. I still do this when I'm tired or distracted sometimes.

The best example of this is something you would do on purpose in some situation called the pile cast. It's used to throw slack into your leader in moving water. This video shows it nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6uHddBAH7g

If the tip of your line is falling down in a pile like that you are dropping the rod tip too early.

Just wanted to mention i watched the video's.. Wonderful help thank you!!! From what i gather i am arcing (off the first video) and i am not laying down my rod tip like i should (off the second video).

I'll give it a shot tonight if i am able. :)